I'm in the process of wiring my 24x28 shop (actually a new detached
garage). Presently, I have a tablesaw, drill press, radial arm saw and
joiner (more to come later). I've got each wall on it's own 20amp
circuit with 4x4" boxes every 6 feet. I was originally planning on
making each box a quad recptacle but with the 12 ga wire, it's a REAL
pain trying to get the two outlets and the wires in the box.
So I'm trying to decide whether to replace all the 4" square boxes
with 4 11/16" square boxes or just go with one outlet per box.
Thoughts? Suggestions?
Thanks in advance,
That is done all the time in three phase electric. Black, red and some
other color for the "hot" legs. White for the "neutral." Just one
white for those three hot legs. But that is only if they need to
deliver 120 from a 208 circuit. White is not used if you are working
with a three phase device.Well I think is done all the time but I
could be wrong as I am not an electrician. The excitement is if you
turn off the breaker on one leg and the other legs are working.
Remember I am not an electrician so take my words with a grain of
salt.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-phase_electric_power
On Sat, 03 Mar 2007 10:11:39 -0800, Tim Douglass
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Sat, 03 Mar 2007 06:58:34 -0800, Mike M
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>>You could switch to stranded wire which is easier to work with. Also
>>consider running a 3 wire circuit so you can put each receptacle in a
>>box on a different circuit which may save you from running an
>>extension cord across the shop in the future. If you've got a good
>>pipe bender you'll get the hang of it pretty quick.
>
>In that setup you have to make sure that your hot wires are on
>opposite legs. If they are on the same leg your neutral is carrying
>both loads.
On Mar 2, 12:51 pm, [email protected] wrote:
> I'm in the process of wiring my 24x28 shop (actually a new detached
> garage). Presently, I have a tablesaw, drill press, radial arm saw and
> joiner (more to come later). I've got each wall on it's own 20amp
> circuit with 4x4" boxes every 6 feet. I was originally planning on
> making each box a quad recptacle but with the 12 ga wire, it's a REAL
> pain trying to get the two outlets and the wires in the box.
>
> So I'm trying to decide whether to replace all the 4" square boxes
> with 4 11/16" square boxes or just go with one outlet per box.
>
> Thoughts? Suggestions?
>
> Thanks in advance,
Yep, try one of these
http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ibeCCtpSctDspRte.jsp?section=10940
It is not that much of a pain and you anly have to do it once...
It sounds like even though the boxes are only 6' apart that four
receptacles per box is preferred?
It's what I planned for so I guess my first idea was right. Oh well,
it's easier to fix now.
BTW, I get the added pleasure of having to run EMT conduit. What I
could have done in a day with ROMEX is going to end up taking over a
week :-(
I'm going with "Professional" grade outlets at $2.50 each. The cheap
ones were about $1.25 but they had some real nice ones at $6.50 that
you just shove the stripped wire in the back and tighten it down.
On Mar 2, 11:51 am, [email protected] wrote:
> I'm in the process of wiring my 24x28 shop (actually a new detached
> garage). Presently, I have a tablesaw, drill press, radial arm saw and
> joiner (more to come later). I've got each wall on it's own 20amp
> circuit with 4x4" boxes every 6 feet.
Do you really mean all of the outlets along each wall are on the same
circuit? So if you were working near one wall, and had everything
plugged into outlets along that wall, since the outlets are closest,
they would all be on the same circuit?
I'd suggest putting multiple circuits on each wall. Each set of
outlets on a wall would be on a different circuit. I'd also suggest
putting outlets every 4 feet instead of 6 feet. Use a single outlet
for half of the boxes and double outlets for the other half. I think
having more boxes all along the walls is more useful than having big
boxes in fewer locations. Put the double outlet boxes near the
workbenches of course. On different circuits.
I was originally planning on
> making each box a quad recptacle but with the 12 ga wire, it's a REAL
> pain trying to get the two outlets and the wires in the box.
>
> So I'm trying to decide whether to replace all the 4" square boxes
> with 4 11/16" square boxes or just go with one outlet per box.
>
> Thoughts? Suggestions?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> For a one person shop, isn't that kind of a waste?
>
Yeah, that's what I figured.
> Next, I ran separate lighting circuits, so a tripped breaker wouldn't
> put me in the dark.
I've got two separate circuits for lighting.
I don't have anything now that runs off 220 so I figure I'll deal with
that when I need it. One of the nice things about conduit is that it
is real easy to run a circuit later.
> You have plenty of room in a 4x4 for a quad set up. You must be leaving too
> much wire out of the box if you're having trouble putting #12 wire into that
> box. How much are you leaving outside the box? Are you using the raised
> quad covers? They leave you a lot more room in the box since the duplexes
> don't sit fully inside the box.
>
About 4".
But keep in mind that I've got two wires coming in, two wires between
the outlets and two wires going out. I'm using a 5/8" mud ring. I was
able to get it the first one done, but it's a REAL pain.
> Just remember when you do all this that you are only allowed by code to have 8 duplex outlets per circuit.
I've found different references to the number of outlets per circuit.
Some say that there are no code limitations on the number of outlets
per branch.
http://www.codecheck.com/numberoutlets.htm
Here, I found another reference to 13 per circuit.
http://www.copper.org/applications/electrical/pq/primer.html
A few others mention that there is some ambiguity on the subject. When
you add in whether it's a dwelling or not, it gets real confusing.
On Mar 2, 4:14 pm, B A R R Y <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 2 Mar 2007 13:51:52 -0800, "[email protected]"
>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >I'd suggest putting multiple circuits on each wall. Each set of
> >outlets on a wall would be on a different circuit.
>
> For a one person shop, isn't that kind of a waste?
No. Simple example. Bench is along one wall. Using the mini lathe
and shop vav. Mini lathe sits on the bench while using it, shop vac
is connected to a large funnel positioned behind the lathe to help get
the sanding dust at the source. All plugged into the outlets along
the one wall. You have two battery chargers sitting on the shelf
beneath the bench plugged into the outlets along that wall. You have
the TV going near the bench so you can hear the game or something, not
watch it while working. You have a two 150 watt incandescent lamps to
cast shadows on the piece you are turning and to help you see. These
are also plugged in right by the bench because you are working by the
bench. And you have one of those ceiling mounted air filters plugged
into the outlets along the bench wall too. Seems to me like you need
multiple circuits.
>
> When I did mine, I ran dedicated 220v circuits for the DC, for the
> compressor, and another tool circuit for the TS, jointer, and planer.
> Only one tool at a time is on while the DC is running, and the
> compressor won't bother anything.
Really only one electrical device is runnig at the same time? Look
around and I'll bet you see lots of other electrical devices going at
once.
>
> Next, I ran separate lighting circuits, so a tripped breaker wouldn't
> put me in the dark.
>
> For 120v, I ran two 20A circuits, alternated around the shop, and
> labeled. The biscuit cutter or router plugs in to circuit A, the Shop
> Vac in "B". Alternatively, the HVLP turbine is in A, while the tripod
> lights are in A and B.
>
> I also ran dedicated 20A feeds to the stereo area (very important
> <G>), the ceiling for air cleaners, and near the door for exhaust
> fans.
So you did exactly what I said to do. You ran multiple circuits all
over your shop. In the above sections you have general use circuits A
and B and stereo, air cleaner, and exhaust fan. FIVE circuits. Plus
the 220 circuits for the compressor and the saw/jointer/planer and
dust collector. Two 220 circuits. And you said several lighting
circuits.
You did exactly what I told you to do. Multiple circuits spaced out
all over the shop.
>
> If it's a multi-person shop, please disregard this, but I've NEVER
> tripped a breaker in this heavily used setup with one guy.
If your running metal conduit you will definitely want to run stranded
wire. A wires current carrying capacity is based on how much current
the wire can substain without melting the insulation. I am pretty
sure you will find different current ratings for stranded tth wire and
romex in any electrical code book. Stranded in metal conduit can
carry more amps than romex in conduit. I also believe that romex in
conduit is rated for a lower load carrying capacity than romex in air
because of the tendancy for conduit to store heat rather than disipate
it into the air.
In any case running two hot legs, a neutral and a ground makes for
easily mixing 110v and 220v circuits. In some cases I believe you
don't have to run a ground in metal conduit and you can use the
conduit for the ground. I am unsure of this though and would
reccomend running an uninsulated copper ground. Seperate stranded 12g
is a lot easier to work with than romex.
On Mar 2, 12:51 pm, [email protected] wrote:
> I'm in the process of wiring my 24x28 shop (actually a new detached
> garage). Presently, I have a tablesaw, drill press, radial arm saw and
> joiner (more to come later). I've got each wall on it's own 20amp
> circuit with 4x4" boxes every 6 feet. I was originally planning on
> making each box a quad recptacle but with the 12 ga wire, it's a REAL
> pain trying to get the two outlets and the wires in the box.
>
> So I'm trying to decide whether to replace all the 4" square boxes
> with 4 11/16" square boxes or just go with one outlet per box.
>
> Thoughts? Suggestions?
>
> Thanks in advance,
Suggestion.. I'd make a dedicated circuit for the dust collector.
Decide if you are going to use a remote controller or not. I hate
remote controls, because I always lose them. So I put 4 switches that
control the DC power. It's easy to wire it so any switch can turn the
power on or off.
Also, if you are putting two outlets per box, you might want to take
the time to wire the right outlet with circuit A and the left with
circuit B. That way if you ever want to run two things at the same
time, you can plug them in seperate circuits.
Oh yeah, put in about twice as many lights as you think you need. I'm
a big fan of those 8' shoplights. They are a little pricey, but they
are better than the cheapo 4' ones that have a short lifespan.
On Mar 3, 10:22 pm, LRod <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Sat, 3 Mar 2007 18:41:33 -0500, "Charley" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >you are only allowed by code to have 8 duplex outlets per circuit.
>
> Cite, please?
>
> My understanding is that in residential there are no limitations, but
> in commercial there are. My source for that is Rex Cauldwell in his
> Taunton Press book, "Wiring a House."
>
> --
> LRod
>
My electrical inspector said there was no limit, it was up to the
installer to estimate the load and install the appropriate amount of
outlets.
I wish there was a limit though. My lazy builder wired the 3 rooms of
lights, plus the outlets for 2 rooms all on the same circuit.. Kind of
a bummer to turn on the printer and have three rooms of lights dim..
Had to run some new outlets myself.
I'm too lazy to look it up, but the general rule is your allowed 180VA
per duplex receptacle for circuit calculations assuming its a general
purpose receptcle circuit. Depending on the amperage of the cirucuit
this would allow 10 on a 15 amp and 13 on a 20 amp. If you have loads
that draw enough then they must be dedicated.
Mike M
On Sun, 04 Mar 2007 03:22:16 +0000, LRod <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On Sat, 3 Mar 2007 18:41:33 -0500, "Charley" <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>
>>you are only allowed by code to have 8 duplex outlets per circuit.
>
>Cite, please?
>
>My understanding is that in residential there are no limitations, but
>in commercial there are. My source for that is Rex Cauldwell in his
>Taunton Press book, "Wiring a House."
"Mike M" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> You could switch to stranded wire which is easier to work with. Also
> consider running a 3 wire circuit so you can put each receptacle in a
> box on a different circuit which may save you from running an
> extension cord across the shop in the future. If you've got a good
> pipe bender you'll get the hang of it pretty quick.
>
> Mike M
Just don't try to install GFCI's on that set up.....DAMHIKT
Gary
>
>
> On 2 Mar 2007 17:29:46 -0800, "Duck" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>> You have plenty of room in a 4x4 for a quad set up. You must be leaving
>>> too
>>> much wire out of the box if you're having trouble putting #12 wire into
>>> that
>>> box. How much are you leaving outside the box? Are you using the
>>> raised
>>> quad covers? They leave you a lot more room in the box since the
>>> duplexes
>>> don't sit fully inside the box.
>>>
>>
>>About 4".
>>
>>But keep in mind that I've got two wires coming in, two wires between
>>the outlets and two wires going out. I'm using a 5/8" mud ring. I was
>>able to get it the first one done, but it's a REAL pain.
>>
>
Just remember this - Outlets are like clamps, you can never have too
many.
My shop outlets are quad boxes set on 4 foot centers (and I've occasionally
still run out in high usage spots). They're on 3 wire circuits where every
other quad is on the same circuit. Doing it this way not only saves a little
wire, but I can convert one box to a temporary 240 outlet if I ever need to.
Both duplex outlets in any given box are on the same circuit (I don't want
to take the chance of getting a 240 volt shock between two 120 volt tools
that are plugged into the same box). My boxes are typically mounted at the 4
ft level so they're above benches and floor stuff, but below any possible
future cabinets. I've also put a circuit of them across the ceiling with
hanging cord outlets (just in case). Just remember when you do all this that
you are only allowed by code to have 8 duplex outlets per circuit. Mine are
all protected for 15 amp with #12 wire because I ran special dedicated
circuits for the compressor, table saw, RAS, etc. and only the portable
stuff plugs into the duplexes. I don't believe that bench outlets need more
than 15 amps and I don't like the amount of fire that you can get from a
short on a 20 amp circuit so I never protect them with anything bigger than
a 15 amp breaker, but I do use #12 wire to reduce the voltage drop.
--
Charley
"GeeDubb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Mike M" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > You could switch to stranded wire which is easier to work with. Also
> > consider running a 3 wire circuit so you can put each receptacle in a
> > box on a different circuit which may save you from running an
> > extension cord across the shop in the future. If you've got a good
> > pipe bender you'll get the hang of it pretty quick.
> >
> > Mike M
>
> Just don't try to install GFCI's on that set up.....DAMHIKT
>
> Gary
>
>
> >
> >
> > On 2 Mar 2007 17:29:46 -0800, "Duck" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >>> You have plenty of room in a 4x4 for a quad set up. You must be
leaving
> >>> too
> >>> much wire out of the box if you're having trouble putting #12 wire
into
> >>> that
> >>> box. How much are you leaving outside the box? Are you using the
> >>> raised
> >>> quad covers? They leave you a lot more room in the box since the
> >>> duplexes
> >>> don't sit fully inside the box.
> >>>
> >>
> >>About 4".
> >>
> >>But keep in mind that I've got two wires coming in, two wires between
> >>the outlets and two wires going out. I'm using a 5/8" mud ring. I was
> >>able to get it the first one done, but it's a REAL pain.
> >>
> >
>
"Charley" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> Just remember this - Outlets are like clamps, you can never have
> too many.
>
Does it often help to have even numbers (just like clamps)? ;-)
Puckdropper
--
Wise is the man who attempts to answer his question before asking it.
To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm
"Duck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> > You have plenty of room in a 4x4 for a quad set up. You must be leaving
too
> > much wire out of the box if you're having trouble putting #12 wire into
that
> > box. How much are you leaving outside the box? Are you using the
raised
> > quad covers? They leave you a lot more room in the box since the
duplexes
> > don't sit fully inside the box.
> >
>
> About 4".
>
> But keep in mind that I've got two wires coming in, two wires between
> the outlets and two wires going out. I'm using a 5/8" mud ring. I was
> able to get it the first one done, but it's a REAL pain.
>
>
Huh. I'm surprised you're having the trouble you are. I stuff that kind of
box like that commonly. Not to sound condescending, but are you getting a
good fold on your wire as you're trying to stuff the box? A good fold is
better than half the secret to making a box do-able instead of a real bear.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
I stand corrected as far as dwellings and quest rooms per NEC rules.
I haven't done anything but commercial in 20 years. Your local
jurisdictin may have their own rules. If your building a stand alone
shop it may not be classified as a dwelling unit so you have to check
with your local inspectors.
(J) Dwelling Occupancies. In one-family, two-family, and
multifamily dwellings and in guest rooms or guest suites of
hotels and motels, the outlets specified in (J)(1), (J)(2), and
(J)(3) are included in the general lighting load calculations
of 220.12. No additional load calculations shall be required
for such outlets.
(1) All general-use receptacle outlets of 20-ampere rating
or less, including receptacles connected to the circuits
in 210.11(C)(3)
(2) The receptacle outlets specified in 210.52(E) and (G)
(3) The lighting outlets specified in 210.70(A) and (B)
220.44 Receptacle Loads Other Than Dwelling
Units. Receptacle loads calculated in accordance with
220.14(H) and (I) shall be permitted to be made subject to
the demand factors given in Table 220.42 or Table 220.44.
(I) Receptacle Outlets. Except as covered in 220.14(J)
and (K), receptacle outlets shall be calculated at not less
than 180 volt-amperes for each single or for each multiplereceptacle
on one yoke. A single piece of equipment consisting
of a multiple receptacle comprised of four or more receptacles
shall be calculated at not less than 90 volt-amperes per
receptacle. This provision shall not be applicable to the receptacle
outlets specified in 210.11(C)(1) and (C)(2).
On Mon, 05 Mar 2007 15:24:28 +0000, LRod <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On Sat, 03 Mar 2007 20:05:04 -0800, Mike M
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>I'm too lazy to look it up, but the general rule is your allowed 180VA
>>per duplex receptacle for circuit calculations assuming its a general
>>purpose receptcle circuit. Depending on the amperage of the cirucuit
>>this would allow 10 on a 15 amp and 13 on a 20 amp. If you have loads
>>that draw enough then they must be dedicated.
>
>Setting a suggested value for calculating circuits is not the same as
>mandating the resultant number as a maximum. I don't doubt that the
>value is what you say, but I don't believe that it translates to a
>rule.
>
>I'll continue to wait for a specific cite (although I'm confident the
>wait will be a long one).
>
>>On Sun, 04 Mar 2007 03:22:16 +0000, LRod <[email protected]>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 3 Mar 2007 18:41:33 -0500, "Charley" <[email protected]>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>you are only allowed by code to have 8 duplex outlets per circuit.
>>>
>>>Cite, please?
>>>
>>>My understanding is that in residential there are no limitations, but
>>>in commercial there are. My source for that is Rex Cauldwell in his
>>>Taunton Press book, "Wiring a House."
On Sat, 3 Mar 2007 18:41:33 -0500, "Charley" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>you are only allowed by code to have 8 duplex outlets per circuit.
Cite, please?
My understanding is that in residential there are no limitations, but
in commercial there are. My source for that is Rex Cauldwell in his
Taunton Press book, "Wiring a House."
--
LRod
Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999
http://www.woodbutcher.net
Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997
email addy de-spam-ified due to 1,000 spams per month.
If you can't figure out how to use it, I probably wouldn't
care to correspond with you anyway.
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm in the process of wiring my 24x28 shop (actually a new detached
> garage). Presently, I have a tablesaw, drill press, radial arm saw and
> joiner (more to come later). I've got each wall on it's own 20amp
> circuit with 4x4" boxes every 6 feet. I was originally planning on
> making each box a quad recptacle but with the 12 ga wire, it's a REAL
> pain trying to get the two outlets and the wires in the box.
>
> So I'm trying to decide whether to replace all the 4" square boxes
> with 4 11/16" square boxes or just go with one outlet per box.
>
You have plenty of room in a 4x4 for a quad set up. You must be leaving too
much wire out of the box if you're having trouble putting #12 wire into that
box. How much are you leaving outside the box? Are you using the raised
quad covers? They leave you a lot more room in the box since the duplexes
don't sit fully inside the box.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
I would use ALL external boxes mounted on the wall using
plastic conduit. Shops "never" turn out the way they start
and your requirements will change down the road. With the
external mounting, things can be changed with little trouble
but if the boxes are in the wall, you are screwed.
[email protected] wrote:
> I'm in the process of wiring my 24x28 shop (actually a new detached
> garage). Presently, I have a tablesaw, drill press, radial arm saw and
> joiner (more to come later). I've got each wall on it's own 20amp
> circuit with 4x4" boxes every 6 feet. I was originally planning on
> making each box a quad recptacle but with the 12 ga wire, it's a REAL
> pain trying to get the two outlets and the wires in the box.
>
> So I'm trying to decide whether to replace all the 4" square boxes
> with 4 11/16" square boxes or just go with one outlet per box.
>
> Thoughts? Suggestions?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
"Pat Barber" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> That must be a regional thing. In my area, no more than 7
> on a single circuit.
>
> bf wrote:
>
>
And the last I knew NEC had a limit of 12 per branch circuit. I have to
admit that I don't have an up to date copy of the NEC, so that may be dated
information.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On 2 Mar 2007 13:51:52 -0800, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>I'd suggest putting multiple circuits on each wall. Each set of
>outlets on a wall would be on a different circuit.
For a one person shop, isn't that kind of a waste?
When I did mine, I ran dedicated 220v circuits for the DC, for the
compressor, and another tool circuit for the TS, jointer, and planer.
Only one tool at a time is on while the DC is running, and the
compressor won't bother anything.
Next, I ran separate lighting circuits, so a tripped breaker wouldn't
put me in the dark.
For 120v, I ran two 20A circuits, alternated around the shop, and
labeled. The biscuit cutter or router plugs in to circuit A, the Shop
Vac in "B". Alternatively, the HVLP turbine is in A, while the tripod
lights are in A and B.
I also ran dedicated 20A feeds to the stereo area (very important
<G>), the ceiling for air cleaners, and near the door for exhaust
fans.
If it's a multi-person shop, please disregard this, but I've NEVER
tripped a breaker in this heavily used setup with one guy.
On Sat, 03 Mar 2007 20:05:04 -0800, Mike M
<[email protected]> wrote:
>I'm too lazy to look it up, but the general rule is your allowed 180VA
>per duplex receptacle for circuit calculations assuming its a general
>purpose receptcle circuit. Depending on the amperage of the cirucuit
>this would allow 10 on a 15 amp and 13 on a 20 amp. If you have loads
>that draw enough then they must be dedicated.
Setting a suggested value for calculating circuits is not the same as
mandating the resultant number as a maximum. I don't doubt that the
value is what you say, but I don't believe that it translates to a
rule.
I'll continue to wait for a specific cite (although I'm confident the
wait will be a long one).
>On Sun, 04 Mar 2007 03:22:16 +0000, LRod <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 3 Mar 2007 18:41:33 -0500, "Charley" <[email protected]>
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>>you are only allowed by code to have 8 duplex outlets per circuit.
>>
>>Cite, please?
>>
>>My understanding is that in residential there are no limitations, but
>>in commercial there are. My source for that is Rex Cauldwell in his
>>Taunton Press book, "Wiring a House."
--
LRod
Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999
http://www.woodbutcher.net
Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997
email addy de-spam-ified due to 1,000 spams per month.
If you can't figure out how to use it, I probably wouldn't
care to correspond with you anyway.
You could switch to stranded wire which is easier to work with. Also
consider running a 3 wire circuit so you can put each receptacle in a
box on a different circuit which may save you from running an
extension cord across the shop in the future. If you've got a good
pipe bender you'll get the hang of it pretty quick.
Mike M
On 2 Mar 2007 17:29:46 -0800, "Duck" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> You have plenty of room in a 4x4 for a quad set up. You must be leaving too
>> much wire out of the box if you're having trouble putting #12 wire into that
>> box. How much are you leaving outside the box? Are you using the raised
>> quad covers? They leave you a lot more room in the box since the duplexes
>> don't sit fully inside the box.
>>
>
>About 4".
>
>But keep in mind that I've got two wires coming in, two wires between
>the outlets and two wires going out. I'm using a 5/8" mud ring. I was
>able to get it the first one done, but it's a REAL pain.
>
On 4 Mar 2007 11:13:34 -0800, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>You did exactly what I told you to do. Multiple circuits spaced out
>all over the shop.
>
Kind of, but with a purpose.
I read your post as making sure that every box has a dedicated
circuit. That's a waste without some forethought. If I misunderstood,
I apologize.
On Sat, 03 Mar 2007 20:10:08 GMT, Jim Behning
<[email protected]> wrote:
>That is done all the time in three phase electric. Black, red and some
>other color for the "hot" legs. White for the "neutral." Just one
>white for those three hot legs. But that is only if they need to
>deliver 120 from a 208 circuit. White is not used if you are working
>with a three phase device.Well I think is done all the time but I
>could be wrong as I am not an electrician. The excitement is if you
>turn off the breaker on one leg and the other legs are working.
>Remember I am not an electrician so take my words with a grain of
>salt.
>On Sat, 03 Mar 2007 10:11:39 -0800, Tim Douglass
><[email protected]> wrote:
>>In that setup you have to make sure that your hot wires are on
>>opposite legs. If they are on the same leg your neutral is carrying
>>both loads.
Three phase is a horse of a different color, and I'm not expert on it
at all, but in a normal 2 phase panel (U.S.) you have 240 volts coming
in as two 120V legs that are 180 degrees out of phase. In a 240 volt
circuit you then have a 240V differential across the two legs. A 120V
circuit consists of one hot leg and a neutral, giving a 120V
differential. When you do two 120V circuits with a common neutral the
two hots have to come from opposite legs so that the neutral never
carries more load than one hot. If they come from the same leg the
loads add together on the neutral and can easily overload that wire.
While this is a common wiring practice and meets code, it is also one
that is denigrated among electricians who do repair work, as it makes
adding a circuit very difficult.
--
"We need to make a sacrifice to the gods, find me a young virgin... oh, and bring something to kill"
Tim Douglass
http://www.DouglassClan.com
That must be a regional thing. In my area, no more than 7
on a single circuit.
bf wrote:
>
>
> My electrical inspector said there was no limit, it was up to the
> installer to estimate the load and install the appropriate amount of
> outlets.
>
> I wish there was a limit though. My lazy builder wired the 3 rooms of
> lights, plus the outlets for 2 rooms all on the same circuit.. Kind of
> a bummer to turn on the printer and have three rooms of lights dim..
> Had to run some new outlets myself.
>
>
>
>
On Sat, 03 Mar 2007 06:58:34 -0800, Mike M
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>You could switch to stranded wire which is easier to work with. Also
>consider running a 3 wire circuit so you can put each receptacle in a
>box on a different circuit which may save you from running an
>extension cord across the shop in the future. If you've got a good
>pipe bender you'll get the hang of it pretty quick.
In that setup you have to make sure that your hot wires are on
opposite legs. If they are on the same leg your neutral is carrying
both loads.
--
"We need to make a sacrifice to the gods, find me a young virgin... oh, and bring something to kill"
Tim Douglass
http://www.DouglassClan.com
On 2 Mar 2007 09:51:41 -0800, [email protected] wrote:
>I'm in the process of wiring my 24x28 shop (actually a new detached
>garage). Presently, I have a tablesaw, drill press, radial arm saw and
>joiner (more to come later). I've got each wall on it's own 20amp
>circuit with 4x4" boxes every 6 feet. I was originally planning on
>making each box a quad recptacle but with the 12 ga wire, it's a REAL
>pain trying to get the two outlets and the wires in the box.
>
>So I'm trying to decide whether to replace all the 4" square boxes
>with 4 11/16" square boxes or just go with one outlet per box.
>
>Thoughts? Suggestions?
>
>Thanks in advance,
Well, really you can't have too many outlets. Go ahead and do
it--it's inexpensive. You might consider putting in a 220 and 110 in
the same box. Also, consider having a few leap-frogged circuits. I
thought 10 ga wire was tough to work.
[email protected] wrote:
<snip>
> So I'm trying to decide whether to replace all the 4" square boxes
> with 4 11/16" square boxes or just go with one outlet per box.
<snip>
Good idea, boxes are cheap.
Trying to wire in a small box ranks right up there with wearing a hair
shirt.
Lew