To date, all of my woodworking projects were for me, by me.
The Hidden Lock Cabinets my son and I are making for him has
become an interesting collaborative effort. He throws out ideas
and I give him options on how to do it or why it would be tough
to do. Last nite we had a Bumble Bee Syndrome event.
Explanation: With what we knew at the time - prior to high
speed cameras - bumble bees weren't supposed to be able to
fly according to the theories we had on aerodynamics. The
bumble bee, not knowing that he theoretically couldn't fly,
flew. History is full of folks who were told "It can't be done!"
and they went and did it anyway. When I was teaching lost
wax casting I'd get a student every now and then who, out
of "ignorance", did something that every thing I knew from
personal experience and from books, classes etc., couldn't
be done. Sometimes it could be repeated and sometimes it
couldn't. If it could be repeated it went into my class
handouts for others to use if they chose to.
In this instance my son wanted to make the top out of birdseye
maple. He rejected using birdseye ply because he didn't want
to frame the top to hide the edges of the ply. That left making
the top out of edge joined boards and breadboard ends would
likely be necessary. He dug out 6 birdseye boards, a smidge
over 3/4' thick by 4-5 inches wide by 47 1/2" long. He
layed them out on the bench top and he played the board shuffle
and switch and rotate game for about a half an hour.
Only when he had an acceptable to him set of boards that
would yield what was needed did he notice that the birdseye
figure wouldn't be on the exposed edges of the top.
He wanted the birdseye figure to be on the edges of the top
as well. "Don't they make the stuff they cover the ends of
ply with in birdseye maple?" Had to tell him I'd never
seen or read or heard of any. Told him we could frame the
top panel, but in solid wood we'd probably need breadboard
ends because of acrossed the grain expansion and contraction.
"Does ply move like solid wood?"
"Nope."
"Then what if we did the top out of birdseye ply and
frame it with some of the solid wood birdseye?"
He they sketched up what is a rabbet for the ply
to sit in and a chamfered edge to desguise the
transition from horizontal to vertical - keeping
as little non-figured wood visible. Here's what
he came up with.
++---------
/ | Birdesye ply
| |
| +---+-----
| | Solid birdseye with figure on
+----- + the outer face
With mitered corners, possibly with a contrasting
wood feather, it might look like what he wants -
grain flowing off the top onto the edges and down
onto the front panel which will also be birdseye.
(This kid has expensive taste).
Put the birdseye maple boards away and got
out a sheet of birdseye ply. Stuck two framing
squares together to create a window the size of
the top and turned him loose to find the areas
of the sheet he wanted to use. As is often the case
with figured ply, there were stains and dead spots
in critical locations. The board shuffle was
trivial relative to finding what he needs in
ply. He'd find what he wanted for one top but
that'd not leave any he liked for the second
top. This is like putting together a music set!
Getting everything to flow together is hard -
but fun!
An hour later we marked what he wants with
Post It dots at the corners and called it a night.
I'll rip a piece of the solid birdseye, route the
rabbet/rebate and chamfer the top edge so he
can see a sample of his idea in the actual stuff
we can use.
The evolution of his design has brought up an
interesting design issue. The grain on the
top of the cabinet well flow acrossed the top
from left to right. The front panel however
would, if made of solid wood, have to flow
up and down. Having the grain flow left/right
on the front panel seemed "wrong" to me
because of my bias towards solid wood furniture.
"But dad, with the birdseye, the grain
direction isn't going to be noticable and
we're going to use ply!"
I got caught up with The Rules and overlooked
the specific materials and application. It's
the Exception To The Rules that you have to
be open to. And it doesn't hurt to work with
a "bumble bee" either.
This is turning out to be even more fun than
I'd hoped for.
charlie b
Thu, Jun 24, 2004, 1:07pm (EDT-3) [email protected] (charlie=A0b)
says:
<snip> bumble bees weren't supposed to be able to fly according to the
theories we had on aerodynamics. The bumble bee, not knowing that he
theoretically couldn't fly, flew.
Story I heard was some aerounotical (?) engineers got together,
sometime around WWII, and proved that if a bumblee was scaled up, so it
could hold 4 or 8 aircraft engines on its wings, it couldn't fly. Or,
maybe it was, if the enginesw where scaled down.
History is full of folks who were told "It can't be done!" and they went
and did it anyway. <snip>
I think it would be more accurate to say, full of folks who weren't
told it can't be done, and they went and did it anyway.
I've been told many times thru the years, that I couldn't do
something, or it can't be done. And, in most of those cases, I was
being told by people who knew they couldn't do it themselves, and
figured if they couldn't do it, they didn't want me to show them up, so
they tried to stop me before I started. Took awhile to catch on, but
once I did, I usually just ignored them, and did whatever. And, yeah,
I know there's a lot of things I can't do, but I don't worry about
those, and conentrate on what I can do, or can learn to do. Now if I
could only learn to get my kids to work on that damn Luv for me.
JOAT
Use your brain - it's the small things that count.
- Bazooka Joe
J T wrote:
> I've been told many times thru the years, that I couldn't do
> something, or it can't be done. And, in most of those cases, I was
> being told by people who knew they couldn't do it themselves, and
> figured if they couldn't do it, they didn't want me to show them up, so
> they tried to stop me before I started.
Tom Plamann has a wonderful quote along those lines on his website:
"There are two types of people. Those that do and those that don't.
Don't listen to unsuccessful people. They will try to discourage you
from your dreams. Instead, look to those who have done well. They will
tell you the right things."
Sounds like rock solid advice.
-Rick
Sat, Jun 26, 2004, 6:50am (EDT-3) [email protected]
(Rick=A0Nelson) says:
Tom Plamann has a wonderful quote along those lines on his website:
"There are two types of people. Those that do and those that don't.
Don't listen to unsuccessful people. They will try to discourage you
from your dreams. Instead, look to those who have done well. They will
tell you the right things."
Sounds like rock solid advice.
Sorta flawed in ways. I can do, but if you're talking "done well"
in terms of big bucks, hasn't happened yet. However, it always seems
like a lot of people who are ready to discourage others, wind up with
some serious cash themselves. I suspect tthat's often a result of their
stealing credit from whoever they're telling is worth nohing. Last
employment I had, our manager wound up with 9 (nine) promotions inside a
year (with a tidy raise each time). But, no one else got even an "atta
boy". If I racall right, that was the year the rest of us got raises
ranging from 0 (zero) to 3 (three) cents per hours - depending on
performance - the same performance that "earned" the manager all those
promotions. Makes you wonder at times.
JOAT
Use your brain - it's the small things that count.
- Bazooka Joe
It sounds to me like there is a free exchange of ideas between you and your
son as opposed to your telling him how it has to be done. A VERY healthy
and, as you say, FUN thing to do. I commend you AND your son for
communicating in this day and age of kids suing their parents for divorce,
etc.
Well done, Charlie & Son <<<<<<<< new business name?
Vic
<snip>
"charlie b" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> To date, all of my woodworking projects were for me, by me.
>
"charlie b" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> to do. Last nite we had a Bumble Bee Syndrome event.
>
I finally got around to renting Nova's special on Orville and Wilbur Wright.
Literally - the sky is the limit when you approach problems without bias.
So far, that's the only downside to "experience" I see.
Thu, Jun 24, 2004, 10:24pm (EDT+4) [email protected]
(patrick=A0conroy) says:
<snip> Literally - the sky is the limit when you approach problems
without bias. So far, that's the only downside to "experience" I see.
One time when my mother picked me up at the airport, coming home on
leave. Just left the airport, and the car stopped running. Turned out
the distributer cap had broken in two. Propped it in place with a
folded piece of cardboard, drove to a service station. No cap. Same
story for another. So, said the Hell with it, and just drove on down to
where my dad was working, to say hi. Still working fine, so on home. A
lot of people said it couldn't work. But, they all said that after I'd
already driven about 40 miles home.
Did the about same thing when an almost brand new alternator lost
all the screws holding the case together, wedged a folded chunk of
cardboard to hold it together. Only about 10 miles that time. Never
did figure out how the screws all came out. Different car, different
life.
Problems like that, just put your brain in neutral, and do whatever
you think'll work. No prob.
Of course, the proper repair, in either case, would have been
copius quantities of duct tape.
JOAT
Use your brain - it's the small things that count.
- Bazooka Joe
charlie b <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
<snippage of some neat father-son stuff>
>
> I got caught up with The Rules and overlooked
> the specific materials and application. It's
> the Exception To The Rules that you have to
> be open to. And it doesn't hurt to work with
> a "bumble bee" either.
My line generally turns out to be something like: "I haven't figured out
how to do that yet!" Or better yet, "let's go across the street and talk
to Brad." Or Kirby. Or Jeff. Or almost anybody with more experience.
I found, when I was writing code (and that's been a long time ago), that
talking with one of my younger sons about the problem I was trying to solve
often helped me to understand the seeds of a solution to the problem.
Wasn't that one of JT's sig lines for a while?
Thanks for keeping us in the loop on this project, Charlie. These are good
reports to get, even if your wood cache is being depleted. You can prolly
find some more. You only get a few kids.
Patriarch
Fri, Jun 25, 2004, 5:20am (EDT+4) patriarch
([email protected]>) says:
<snip> I found, when I was writing code (and that's been a long time
ago), that talking with one of my younger sons about the problem I was
trying to solve often helped me to understand the seeds of a solution to
the problem. Wasn't that one of JT's sig lines for a while? <snip>
Dunno, if it was, musta been longer than yesterday, 'cause I don't
remember nuthin like that.
I found out long ago, that talking to yourself helps almost as much
as bouncing ideas/problems off of someone else. Because, you can think
about someting for days, and the words just bounce back and for in your
skull. But, when you talk, you get the words going in your ears, give
you a whole different perspective. If you don't believe it, rehearse a
speech on something, without saying any of the words aloud. Then, after
you get it all perfect, when you speak it, I can almost guarantee you'll
say something stupid somewhere in it. But, if you practice it aloud,
you'll be much more likely to pick up on the stuid part(s) and correct
it/them. There is no guarantee you won't say something stupid, even
with a prepared speech, if you're a politician.
JOAT
Use your brain - it's the small things that count.
- Bazooka Joe
charlie b wrote:
> To date, all of my woodworking projects were for me, by me.
>
> The Hidden Lock Cabinets my son and I are making for him has
> become an interesting collaborative effort. He throws out ideas
> and I give him options on how to do it or why it would be tough
> to do. Last nite we had a Bumble Bee Syndrome event.
>
> Explanation: With what we knew at the time - prior to high
> speed cameras - bumble bees weren't supposed to be able to
> fly according to the theories we had on aerodynamics. The
> bumble bee, not knowing that he theoretically couldn't fly,
> flew.
Not quite. The fellow who did the calculation was an entomologist's lab
assistant, Sainte-Lague, who did the calculation on a napkin using a very
simplified model in response to a question asked over dinner. Later he did
the calculation in more detail and came up with a different answer.
Meanwhile, the person with whom he had the conversation spread the story
all over Germany and the media picked it up but never explained the
circumstances.
> History is full of folks who were told "It can't be done!"
> and they went and did it anyway. When I was teaching lost
> wax casting I'd get a student every now and then who, out
> of "ignorance", did something that every thing I knew from
> personal experience and from books, classes etc., couldn't
> be done. Sometimes it could be repeated and sometimes it
> couldn't. If it could be repeated it went into my class
> handouts for others to use if they chose to.
>
> In this instance my son wanted to make the top out of birdseye
> maple. He rejected using birdseye ply because he didn't want
> to frame the top to hide the edges of the ply. That left making
> the top out of edge joined boards and breadboard ends would
> likely be necessary. He dug out 6 birdseye boards, a smidge
> over 3/4' thick by 4-5 inches wide by 47 1/2" long. He
> layed them out on the bench top and he played the board shuffle
> and switch and rotate game for about a half an hour.
>
> Only when he had an acceptable to him set of boards that
> would yield what was needed did he notice that the birdseye
> figure wouldn't be on the exposed edges of the top.
>
> He wanted the birdseye figure to be on the edges of the top
> as well. "Don't they make the stuff they cover the ends of
> ply with in birdseye maple?" Had to tell him I'd never
> seen or read or heard of any. Told him we could frame the
> top panel, but in solid wood we'd probably need breadboard
> ends because of acrossed the grain expansion and contraction.
>
> "Does ply move like solid wood?"
>
> "Nope."
>
> "Then what if we did the top out of birdseye ply and
> frame it with some of the solid wood birdseye?"
> He they sketched up what is a rabbet for the ply
> to sit in and a chamfered edge to desguise the
> transition from horizontal to vertical - keeping
> as little non-figured wood visible. Here's what
> he came up with.
>
> ++---------
> / | Birdesye ply
> | |
> | +---+-----
> | | Solid birdseye with figure on
> +----- + the outer face
>
> With mitered corners, possibly with a contrasting
> wood feather, it might look like what he wants -
> grain flowing off the top onto the edges and down
> onto the front panel which will also be birdseye.
> (This kid has expensive taste).
>
> Put the birdseye maple boards away and got
> out a sheet of birdseye ply. Stuck two framing
> squares together to create a window the size of
> the top and turned him loose to find the areas
> of the sheet he wanted to use. As is often the case
> with figured ply, there were stains and dead spots
> in critical locations. The board shuffle was
> trivial relative to finding what he needs in
> ply. He'd find what he wanted for one top but
> that'd not leave any he liked for the second
> top. This is like putting together a music set!
> Getting everything to flow together is hard -
> but fun!
>
> An hour later we marked what he wants with
> Post It dots at the corners and called it a night.
>
> I'll rip a piece of the solid birdseye, route the
> rabbet/rebate and chamfer the top edge so he
> can see a sample of his idea in the actual stuff
> we can use.
>
> The evolution of his design has brought up an
> interesting design issue. The grain on the
> top of the cabinet well flow acrossed the top
> from left to right. The front panel however
> would, if made of solid wood, have to flow
> up and down. Having the grain flow left/right
> on the front panel seemed "wrong" to me
> because of my bias towards solid wood furniture.
>
> "But dad, with the birdseye, the grain
> direction isn't going to be noticable and
> we're going to use ply!"
>
> I got caught up with The Rules and overlooked
> the specific materials and application. It's
> the Exception To The Rules that you have to
> be open to. And it doesn't hurt to work with
> a "bumble bee" either.
>
> This is turning out to be even more fun than
> I'd hoped for.
>
> charlie b
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
You taught him well... an open mind and wisdom will overcome any obstacle...
Bob S.
"charlie b" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> To date, all of my woodworking projects were for me, by me.
>
> The Hidden Lock Cabinets my son and I are making for him has
> become an interesting collaborative effort. He throws out ideas
> and I give him options on how to do it or why it would be tough
> to do. Last nite we had a Bumble Bee Syndrome event.
>
snip...