On 6/3/2014 10:25 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>> On 6/3/2014 4:26 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>>> Bob La Londe wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> A solid piece is an option, but wastes more material and requires
>>>> care in finish to avoid the higher likelihood of simple damage from
>>>> changes in humidity over time.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I agree it would waste some but I have to wonder how much more
>>> actually, after taking into account the cut off from a band saw or a
>>> table saw to make the stave cuts. Perhaps more - but really... how
>>> much more? I fall into the camp of thinking that a little more
>>> waste is not always a bad thing compared to the alternatives.
>>>
>>> I don't really see so much of a care in finish issue here. You are
>>> going to have to pay attention to either approach - and perhaps even
>>> more to a staved approach, than to a single slab approach.
>>>
>>> I do not at all see a problem with humidity over time with a single
>>> slab. You are way more likely to see issues there with staves than
>>> you are with a single piece of wood.
>>>
>>
>>
>> If you simply dish out a board or taper the ends, instead of using
>> multiple pieces, you are going to see a lot of end grain on the face
>> of board.
>
> OK - educate me then. This is how most commercial chair are constructed but
> they don't warp - right? I'm suspecting that it's because the end grain
> exposure is not as important as we tend to simplify it to be here. Or is it
> something else?
>
> End grain is not really the problem with wood movement anyway - it's more
> cross grain that creates the problem. So - I'd thing the stave joint would
> be a more problematic approach.
>
Actually I was just commenting that more end grain would show. Not
saying that it would be better or worse. You just might not care for
that look. :~)
On 6/3/2014 4:26 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Bob La Londe wrote:
>
>>
>> A solid piece is an option, but wastes more material and requires
>> care in finish to avoid the higher likelihood of simple damage from
>> changes in humidity over time.
>>
>
> I agree it would waste some but I have to wonder how much more actually,
> after taking into account the cut off from a band saw or a table saw to make
> the stave cuts. Perhaps more - but really... how much more? I fall into
> the camp of thinking that a little more waste is not always a bad thing
> compared to the alternatives.
>
> I don't really see so much of a care in finish issue here. You are going to
> have to pay attention to either approach - and perhaps even more to a staved
> approach, than to a single slab approach.
>
> I do not at all see a problem with humidity over time with a single slab.
> You are way more likely to see issues there with staves than you are with a
> single piece of wood.
>
If you simply dish out a board or taper the ends, instead of using
multiple pieces, you are going to see a lot of end grain on the face of
board.
On Monday, June 2, 2014 3:18:13 PM UTC-5, Lew Hodgett wrote:
> Part of this season's programs.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Concave jigs req'd.
>=20
I have an ongoing project that I could use some convexing help with, for th=
e curved doors. These episodes may be part of my solution. With that sho=
rt intro video, I can already see that part of my present support jig can u=
se some additional features, for holding the pieces snug, while the glue dr=
ies.
This is my first time trying curved doors, as this, and I'm also aiming at =
them being raised paneled, within a curved door frame.
*I don't suppose I have to worry about curved hinges, curved door knobs....=
I'm evolving into a curved/warped mindset.... :)
Like a good, fetching woman: The mo curves, the mo betta!
Sonny
Sonny wrote:
>
> I have an ongoing project that I could use some convexing help with,
> for the curved doors. These episodes may be part of my solution.
> With that short intro video, I can already see that part of my
> present support jig can use some additional features, for holding the
> pieces snug, while the glue dries.
So... this is just junk from my mind, as I see things. I didn't really like
the stave concept at all. I just can't get past the idea that the joints
will show, or that the grain mis-match will show. Maybe I'm wrong, and/or
maybe that really wouldn't matter all that much. But... I thought it would
be better to start with stock of sufficient thickness and to build a router
template to ride across the face so as to contour it as desired - out of a
single piece of wood. Think of the techniques for using a router to plane
wood.
>
> This is my first time trying curved doors, as this, and I'm also
> aiming at them being raised paneled, within a curved door frame.
It seems to me that using a template would facilitate switching over to a
raised bit to do the raised panel.
>
> *I don't suppose I have to worry about curved hinges, curved door
> knobs.... I'm evolving into a curved/warped mindset.... :)
>
A great place to be my friend...
> Like a good, fetching woman: The mo curves, the mo betta!
>
I'm really liking the way you think...
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Sonny wrote:
>
>>
>> I have an ongoing project that I could use some convexing help with,
>> for the curved doors. These episodes may be part of my solution.
>> With that short intro video, I can already see that part of my
>> present support jig can use some additional features, for holding the
>> pieces snug, while the glue dries.
>
> So... this is just junk from my mind, as I see things. I didn't really
> like the stave concept at all. I just can't get past the idea that the
> joints will show, or that the grain mis-match will show.
That may atleast be part of fit quality and board selection. I've seen
curved front drawers that I couldn't tell were stave until I saw the inside.
Another option depending on the exact application is to laminate the face.
> Maybe I'm wrong, and/or maybe that really wouldn't matter all that much.
> But... I thought it would be better to start with stock of sufficient
> thickness and to build a router template to ride across the face so as to
> contour it as desired - out of a single piece of wood. Think of the
> techniques for using a router to plane wood.
A solid piece is an option, but wastes more material and requires care in
finish to avoid the higher likelihood of simple damage from changes in
humidity over time.
>>
>> This is my first time trying curved doors, as this, and I'm also
>> aiming at them being raised paneled, within a curved door frame.
>
> It seems to me that using a template would facilitate switching over to a
> raised bit to do the raised panel.
>
>>
>> *I don't suppose I have to worry about curved hinges, curved door
>> knobs.... I'm evolving into a curved/warped mindset.... :)
>>
>
> A great place to be my friend...
>
>> Like a good, fetching woman: The mo curves, the mo betta!
>>
>
> I'm really liking the way you think...
>
> --
>
> -Mike-
> [email protected]
>
Bob La Londe wrote:
>
> A solid piece is an option, but wastes more material and requires
> care in finish to avoid the higher likelihood of simple damage from
> changes in humidity over time.
>
I agree it would waste some but I have to wonder how much more actually,
after taking into account the cut off from a band saw or a table saw to make
the stave cuts. Perhaps more - but really... how much more? I fall into
the camp of thinking that a little more waste is not always a bad thing
compared to the alternatives.
I don't really see so much of a care in finish issue here. You are going to
have to pay attention to either approach - and perhaps even more to a staved
approach, than to a single slab approach.
I do not at all see a problem with humidity over time with a single slab.
You are way more likely to see issues there with staves than you are with a
single piece of wood.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Bob La Londe wrote:
>
>>
>> A solid piece is an option, but wastes more material and requires
>> care in finish to avoid the higher likelihood of simple damage from
>> changes in humidity over time.
>>
>
> I agree it would waste some but I have to wonder how much more actually,
> after taking into account the cut off from a band saw or a table saw to
> make the stave cuts. Perhaps more - but really... how much more? I fall
> into the camp of thinking that a little more waste is not always a bad
> thing compared to the alternatives.
>
> I don't really see so much of a care in finish issue here.
I have seen guys take adjacent cut boards and lay them side by side
sometimes offsetting slightly so it looked like one continuous slab. But if
its not good enough for you, you could always veneer. A lot of veneers are
made out of pieces though too.
> You are going to have to pay attention to either approach - and perhaps
> even more to a staved approach, than to a single slab approach.
Picking and laying your boards maybe, but once you have your angle set on
the saw and your jig(s) made you can crank out drawer fronts until the cows
come home.
> I do not at all see a problem with humidity over time with a single slab.
> You are way more likely to see issues there with staves than you are with
> a single piece of wood.
I've seen plenty of monolithic pieces of wood crack just being moved from a
humid climate to a dry climate.
Leon wrote:
> On 6/3/2014 4:26 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>> Bob La Londe wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> A solid piece is an option, but wastes more material and requires
>>> care in finish to avoid the higher likelihood of simple damage from
>>> changes in humidity over time.
>>>
>>
>> I agree it would waste some but I have to wonder how much more
>> actually, after taking into account the cut off from a band saw or a
>> table saw to make the stave cuts. Perhaps more - but really... how
>> much more? I fall into the camp of thinking that a little more
>> waste is not always a bad thing compared to the alternatives.
>>
>> I don't really see so much of a care in finish issue here. You are
>> going to have to pay attention to either approach - and perhaps even
>> more to a staved approach, than to a single slab approach.
>>
>> I do not at all see a problem with humidity over time with a single
>> slab. You are way more likely to see issues there with staves than
>> you are with a single piece of wood.
>>
>
>
> If you simply dish out a board or taper the ends, instead of using
> multiple pieces, you are going to see a lot of end grain on the face
> of board.
OK - educate me then. This is how most commercial chair are constructed but
they don't warp - right? I'm suspecting that it's because the end grain
exposure is not as important as we tend to simplify it to be here. Or is it
something else?
End grain is not really the problem with wood movement anyway - it's more
cross grain that creates the problem. So - I'd thing the stave joint would
be a more problematic approach.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Bob La Londe wrote:
>
> Picking and laying your boards maybe, but once you have your angle
> set on the saw and your jig(s) made you can crank out drawer fronts
> until the cows come home.
I completely disagree here Bob. Grain is too random for you to make that
statement. There is no such thing as until the cows come home in this kind
of effort.
>
>> I do not at all see a problem with humidity over time with a single
>> slab. You are way more likely to see issues there with staves than
>> you are with a single piece of wood.
>
> I've seen plenty of monolithic pieces of wood crack just being moved
> from a humid climate to a dry climate.
And you would not expect worse of a joined piece of wood under the same
circumstances? I'd expect even worse.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Bob La Londe wrote:
>
>>
>> Picking and laying your boards maybe, but once you have your angle
>> set on the saw and your jig(s) made you can crank out drawer fronts
>> until the cows come home.
>
> I completely disagree here Bob. Grain is too random for you to make that
> statement. There is no such thing as until the cows come home in this
> kind of effort.
I think we are going to just have to agree to disagree, especially since
even veneer is pieced together.
Bob La Londe wrote:
> "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Bob La Londe wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Picking and laying your boards maybe, but once you have your angle
>>> set on the saw and your jig(s) made you can crank out drawer fronts
>>> until the cows come home.
>>
>> I completely disagree here Bob. Grain is too random for you to make
>> that statement. There is no such thing as until the cows come home
>> in this kind of effort.
>
> I think we are going to just have to agree to disagree, especially
> since even veneer is pieced together.
Ok. I think I'm still well within my quota of disagrees for this week.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]