On Thursday, December 21, 2017 at 6:46:39 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 12/21/17 5:24 PM, woodchucker wrote:
> > On 12/20/2017 7:39 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> >> On 12/20/17 1:34 PM, Michael wrote:
> >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dxw5n-5uoGbU
> >>>
> >>> 20K.
> >>>
> >>
> >> I see that kind of $h!t all over in middle TN.
> >> Somebody needs to be sued and possibly jailed for that crap.
> >>
> >>
> > Yep, but in viewing the video, my thought was what architect and builde=
r=20
> > built that POS. You never want a roof coming down into an area that=20
> > cannot shed the water. And certainly there were a few of those.=C2=A0 S=
tupid=20
> > design, and beginner roofer.
> >=20
>=20
> Amateur architect and/or framers who didn't follow the plans.
> It's possible that cricket/saddle framing was specified in the planes=20
> but not done by the framers.
>=20
>=20
I just don't see how anyone walks away from that job thinking that they'll=
=20
get away with it. Maybe, just maybe those little end pieces are rookie
mistakes and they thought they were OK. Maybe, just maybe they thought that
the homemade ridge caps would hold and look OK. But the unfinished sections=
?
The shingles just laying on the roof loose? The holes where the wind driven
rain will blow into? Those have to have been left that way on purpose.=20
I can barely roof a simple shed but I know enough that things need to be=20
closed up, covered up, nailed down, etc. Even if I did a crappy job, things=
=20
would at least be sealed up by the time I climbed down the ladder.
If direct employees (even an owner) of the company did the work, did they n=
ot
know that a final inspection would be done? If they were day-laborers from =
in
front of Home Depot, was there no supervision by the actual company? With
that many blatant errors, the entire crew had to have known what was a POS
install that was.
I can see not caring, but I can't see expecting not to get caught.
Sonny <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 20, 2017 at 6:39:31 PM UTC-6, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 12/20/17 1:34 PM, Michael wrote:
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xw5n-5uoGbU
>>>
>>> 20K.
>>>
>>
>> I see that kind of $h!t all over in middle TN.
>> Somebody needs to be sued and possibly jailed for that crap.
>
> Some months ago, we had a hail storm. I've asked 5-6 local roofers for
> an inspection and quote for new roofing. Not one of them has given me
> an itemized written quote. Yesterday, I met another roofer, while buying
> a chainsaw. I'm waiting on him for another inspection/quote.
>
> Also, a Baton Rouge company was going door-to-door, soliciting for work,
> making special note of insurer's paying the bill. Their fast-talking
> promo was obviously rehearsed, but I bit, for a quote. Their written
> quote was so over-priced it was unbelievable. One example: My roof is
> 45 squares, which includes % for waste. I installed the present roof,
> 35 yrs ago. They quoted for 70 squares. They had determined my sq ft by
> measuring a Google Earth image.... *Too freaking lazy to do a proper
> measurement. Obvious red flags, as that, always put me off.
>
> Taking advantage of unknowing customers.
>
> Sonny
>
My son was quoted almost $40k for a new metal roof on a 1300 ft home. I
originally paid $7500 for that roof about 20 years ago. It had wind damage
and insurance paid for it. He opted for the much less expensive
composition shingle and money n his pocket.
On another note, in the Houston area, the appraisal district for property
taxes use google earth photographs too.
On Wednesday, December 20, 2017 at 6:39:31 PM UTC-6, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 12/20/17 1:34 PM, Michael wrote:
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dxw5n-5uoGbU
> >=20
> > 20K.
> >=20
>=20
> I see that kind of $h!t all over in middle TN.
> Somebody needs to be sued and possibly jailed for that crap.
Some months ago, we had a hail storm. I've asked 5-6 local roofers for an=
inspection and quote for new roofing. Not one of them has given me an it=
emized written quote. Yesterday, I met another roofer, while buying a chai=
nsaw. I'm waiting on him for another inspection/quote.
Also, a Baton Rouge company was going door-to-door, soliciting for work, ma=
king special note of insurer's paying the bill. Their fast-talking promo w=
as obviously rehearsed, but I bit, for a quote. Their written quote was so =
over-priced it was unbelievable. One example: My roof is 45 squares, whi=
ch includes % for waste. I installed the present roof, 35 yrs ago. They =
quoted for 70 squares. They had determined my sq ft by measuring a Google =
Earth image.... *Too freaking lazy to do a proper measurement. Obvious r=
ed flags, as that, always put me off.
Taking advantage of unknowing customers.
Sonny
On Fri, 22 Dec 2017 07:15:20 -0800 (PST), Sonny <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On Thursday, December 21, 2017 at 9:37:32 PM UTC-6, Bill wrote:
>
>>
>> I'm curious how someone can "make this right". I'd be tempted to "dig
>> deeper" and see if it could be justified that the whole job be totally
>> re-done.
>
>With an inspection report as that, as ammunition (*it's been dug deep enough, already), the homeowner can have it totally reinstalled (*besides the no-telling what else is wrong, that is not readily seen). The roofer should be insured, but even if not, he is liable. The homeowner may not be obligated to use the same roofer, for the removal/re-installation.
Of course the homeowner can have it totally reinstalled. The problem
is getting it paid for. I would expect someone who did this sort of
work would be "suit proof".
On 12/20/2017 7:39 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 12/20/17 1:34 PM, Michael wrote:
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xw5n-5uoGbU
>>
>> 20K.
>>
>
> I see that kind of $h!t all over in middle TN.
> Somebody needs to be sued and possibly jailed for that crap.
>
>
Yep, but in viewing the video, my thought was what architect and builder
built that POS. You never want a roof coming down into an area that
cannot shed the water. And certainly there were a few of those. Stupid
design, and beginner roofer.
--
Jeff
On 12/21/2017 9:37 PM, Bill wrote:
> whit3rd wrote:
>> On Thursday, December 21, 2017 at 3:24:57 PM UTC-8, woodchucker wrote:
>>> On 12/20/2017 7:39 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>> Yep, but in viewing the video, my thought was what architect and builder
>>> built that POS. You never want a roof coming down into an area that
>>> cannot shed the water. And certainly there were a few of those. Stupid
>>> design, and beginner roofer.
>> We'll never know about the original design (tile roof), but certainly the
>> shinglers ought to have known to reframe (add 'chimney cricket'
>> features) and repair (what's that ripple about?), and reflash.
>> Instead, they just ... covered.
>>
>> Probably there's minimum-wage installers and a foreman, and the foreman
>> is dim.  The owner, who is NOT dim, hired an inspector before he made
>> final
>> payment.
>
> I'm curious how someone can "make this right". I'd be tempted to "dig
> deeper" and see if it could be justified that the whole job be totally
> re-done.
Easy to make this right if you don't pay up front.
On Thursday, December 21, 2017 at 3:24:57 PM UTC-8, woodchucker wrote:
> On 12/20/2017 7:39 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> Yep, but in viewing the video, my thought was what architect and builder
> built that POS. You never want a roof coming down into an area that
> cannot shed the water. And certainly there were a few of those. Stupid
> design, and beginner roofer.
We'll never know about the original design (tile roof), but certainly the
shinglers ought to have known to reframe (add 'chimney cricket'
features) and repair (what's that ripple about?), and reflash.
Instead, they just ... covered.
Probably there's minimum-wage installers and a foreman, and the foreman
is dim. The owner, who is NOT dim, hired an inspector before he made final
payment.
On Thursday, December 21, 2017 at 9:37:32 PM UTC-6, Bill wrote:
>=20
> I'm curious how someone can "make this right". I'd be tempted to "dig=20
> deeper" and see if it could be justified that the whole job be totally=20
> re-done.
With an inspection report as that, as ammunition (*it's been dug deep enoug=
h, already), the homeowner can have it totally reinstalled (*besides the no=
-telling what else is wrong, that is not readily seen). The roofer should=
be insured, but even if not, he is liable. The homeowner may not be obli=
gated to use the same roofer, for the removal/re-installation.
Sonny
Michael <[email protected]> on Wed, 20 Dec 2017 11:34:15 -0800
(PST) typed in rec.woodworking the following:
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xw5n-5uoGbU
>
>20K.
Reminds me of the song about Barf Construction "We'll throw it
up!"
--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?
On 2017-12-21, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
> On 12/20/2017 6:39 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> I see that kind of $h!t all over in middle TN.
>> Somebody needs to be sued and possibly jailed for that crap.
> +10
I know zip about roofs, but it takes no expert to tell this is not
right!
Usta live in Middle TN, many yrs ago. Sorry to see/hear about it. 8|
nb
On 12/20/17 1:34 PM, Michael wrote:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xw5n-5uoGbU
>
> 20K.
>
I see that kind of $h!t all over in middle TN.
Somebody needs to be sued and possibly jailed for that crap.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com
On 12/21/17 5:24 PM, woodchucker wrote:
> On 12/20/2017 7:39 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 12/20/17 1:34 PM, Michael wrote:
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xw5n-5uoGbU
>>>
>>> 20K.
>>>
>>
>> I see that kind of $h!t all over in middle TN.
>> Somebody needs to be sued and possibly jailed for that crap.
>>
>>
> Yep, but in viewing the video, my thought was what architect and builder
> built that POS. You never want a roof coming down into an area that
> cannot shed the water. And certainly there were a few of those. Stupid
> design, and beginner roofer.
>
Amateur architect and/or framers who didn't follow the plans.
It's possible that cricket/saddle framing was specified in the planes
but not done by the framers.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com
On 12/21/17 6:07 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Thursday, December 21, 2017 at 6:46:39 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 12/21/17 5:24 PM, woodchucker wrote:
>>> On 12/20/2017 7:39 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>> On 12/20/17 1:34 PM, Michael wrote:
>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xw5n-5uoGbU
>>>>>
>>>>> 20K.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I see that kind of $h!t all over in middle TN.
>>>> Somebody needs to be sued and possibly jailed for that crap.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Yep, but in viewing the video, my thought was what architect and builder
>>> built that POS. You never want a roof coming down into an area that
>>> cannot shed the water. And certainly there were a few of those. Stupid
>>> design, and beginner roofer.
>>>
>>
>> Amateur architect and/or framers who didn't follow the plans.
>> It's possible that cricket/saddle framing was specified in the planes
>> but not done by the framers.
>>
>>
>
> I just don't see how anyone walks away from that job thinking that they'll
> get away with it. Maybe, just maybe those little end pieces are rookie
> mistakes and they thought they were OK. Maybe, just maybe they thought that
> the homemade ridge caps would hold and look OK. But the unfinished sections?
> The shingles just laying on the roof loose? The holes where the wind driven
> rain will blow into? Those have to have been left that way on purpose.
>
> I can barely roof a simple shed but I know enough that things need to be
> closed up, covered up, nailed down, etc. Even if I did a crappy job, things
> would at least be sealed up by the time I climbed down the ladder.
>
> If direct employees (even an owner) of the company did the work, did they not
> know that a final inspection would be done? If they were day-laborers from in
> front of Home Depot, was there no supervision by the actual company? With
> that many blatant errors, the entire crew had to have known what was a POS
> install that was.
>
> I can see not caring, but I can't see expecting not to get caught.
>
Yes, to all of the above. Unfortunately.
These companies are fly-by-night and when they've used up their welcome
in one town, they either file bankruptcy and skedaddle out of town, or
just skedaddle.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com
On 12/21/17 6:07 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Thursday, December 21, 2017 at 6:46:39 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 12/21/17 5:24 PM, woodchucker wrote:
>>> On 12/20/2017 7:39 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>> On 12/20/17 1:34 PM, Michael wrote:
>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xw5n-5uoGbU
>>>>>
>>>>> 20K.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I see that kind of $h!t all over in middle TN. Somebody needs
>>>> to be sued and possibly jailed for that crap.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Yep, but in viewing the video, my thought was what architect and
>>> builder built that POS. You never want a roof coming down into an
>>> area that cannot shed the water. And certainly there were a few
>>> of those. Stupid design, and beginner roofer.
>>>
>>
>> Amateur architect and/or framers who didn't follow the plans. It's
>> possible that cricket/saddle framing was specified in the planes
>> but not done by the framers.
>>
>>
>
> I just don't see how anyone walks away from that job thinking that
> they'll get away with it. Maybe, just maybe those little end pieces
> are rookie mistakes and they thought they were OK. Maybe, just maybe
> they thought that the homemade ridge caps would hold and look OK. But
> the unfinished sections? The shingles just laying on the roof loose?
> The holes where the wind driven rain will blow into? Those have to
> have been left that way on purpose.
>
> I can barely roof a simple shed but I know enough that things need to
> be closed up, covered up, nailed down, etc. Even if I did a crappy
> job, things would at least be sealed up by the time I climbed down
> the ladder.
>
> If direct employees (even an owner) of the company did the work, did
> they not know that a final inspection would be done? If they were
> day-laborers from in front of Home Depot, was there no supervision by
> the actual company? With that many blatant errors, the entire crew
> had to have known what was a POS install that was.
>
> I can see not caring, but I can't see expecting not to get caught.
>
By the way, it's amazing that anyone knows how to roof a house anymore.
You have people installing shingles who are 3rd generation ignorant.
Meaning, they guy trained them doesn't know what he's doing and he was
trained by a guy who didn't know what he was doing who trained by a
previous guy who didn't know what he was doing. I won't get into the
politics of it all but I think we all know the score.
Heck, there are even supposed experts writing for well respected
magazines who give bad advice on their websites. I won't name names,
but one magazine that specializes in writing about Building Fine Homes
;-) has a section of tips where their experts write about different
techniques, etc.
One of their experts wrote a tip about flashing around a roof pipe and
he advised to put nails in the exposed section of the flashing and put
some dabs of roof cement over the nails.
Horrible advise. If every shingle flap on the roof stays down because
it's held with roofing tar, then a metal flap is going to hold down as
well.
I have a rule of thumb I use to pick pick out a roofer who doesn't know
what he's doing, and I tell homeowners this rule all the time. If you
see a single nail on a shingle roof, the roofer didn't know what he was
doing. We're not talking metal roofs with rubber gasket nails. We're
talking asphalt overlay shingles.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com
whit3rd wrote:
> On Thursday, December 21, 2017 at 3:24:57 PM UTC-8, woodchucker wrote:
>> On 12/20/2017 7:39 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> Yep, but in viewing the video, my thought was what architect and builder
>> built that POS. You never want a roof coming down into an area that
>> cannot shed the water. And certainly there were a few of those. Stupid
>> design, and beginner roofer.
> We'll never know about the original design (tile roof), but certainly the
> shinglers ought to have known to reframe (add 'chimney cricket'
> features) and repair (what's that ripple about?), and reflash.
> Instead, they just ... covered.
>
> Probably there's minimum-wage installers and a foreman, and the foreman
> is dim. The owner, who is NOT dim, hired an inspector before he made final
> payment.
I'm curious how someone can "make this right". I'd be tempted to "dig
deeper" and see if it could be justified that the whole job be totally
re-done.
On Fri, 22 Dec 2017 09:30:22 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
>On 12/21/2017 9:37 PM, Bill wrote:
>> whit3rd wrote:
>>> On Thursday, December 21, 2017 at 3:24:57 PM UTC-8, woodchucker wrote:
>>>> On 12/20/2017 7:39 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>> Yep, but in viewing the video, my thought was what architect and builder
>>>> built that POS. You never want a roof coming down into an area that
>>>> cannot shed the water. And certainly there were a few of those. Stupid
>>>> design, and beginner roofer.
>>> We'll never know about the original design (tile roof), but certainly the
>>> shinglers ought to have known to reframe (add 'chimney cricket'
>>> features) and repair (what's that ripple about?), and reflash.
>>> Instead, they just ... covered.
>>>
>>> Probably there's minimum-wage installers and a foreman, and the foreman
>>> is dim. The owner, who is NOT dim, hired an inspector before he made
>>> final
>>> payment.
>>
>> I'm curious how someone can "make this right". I'd be tempted to "dig
>> deeper" and see if it could be justified that the whole job be totally
>> re-done.
>
>Easy to make this right if you don't pay up front.
Not always possible, at least in total.