This is partly just to vent, partly a request for information/advice.
I have two routers I use hand-held, a Bosch 1617 and a DeWalt 621. I
have some of the accessory dust collection attachments for the Bosch,
and the DeWalt comes with dust collection above the cutter built in. I
have a Fein Turbo III that I use with both. I am not very satisfied with
the results.
I just finished routing out the opening for the mounting plate in my
router table top. It is MDF, with HP laminate on both surfaces. I was
unable to use the DeWalt because the template bit I used to cut the
"ledge" is quite short (as it had to be, the cut is only 3/8-inch deep),
and the "reach" of the DeWalt router is limited because the hole in the
top of the dust collection shroud won't pass the collet nut. So I used
the Bosch, with the above the cutter shroud attachment. For that part of
the job, the dust collection was just OK.
Then I roughed out the through-opening with a jigsaw, and used the Bosch
router to clean up the cut. THAT was a mistake. I couldn't use the dust
collection shroud for edge forming operations inside the small cutout,
and the above the cutter shroud didn't really work well at all. I spent
a long time cleaning up the MDF dust that was spread ALL OVER my shop.
It was quite a mess. Fortunately I was using a respirator.
Previously, I'd used the Bosch to cut dados and do some edge forming on
a large piece of Wenge, for my fireplace mantel. I had similar problems
then, but the Wenge produced far less fine dust than the MDF did. The
Wenge, however, is a bit oily, and the fine dust that was generated did
stick pretty well to just about every surface in my shop.
This experience makes me rather leary of using the router hand-held,
except for the smallest operations (e.g., mortices). It seems to me,
there must be a solution to this problem.
What do YOU do for dust collection when using a router hand-held? Are
you happy with the results?
Thanks.
--
Art Greenberg
artg at eclipse dot net
On Aug 20, 2:44 pm, Art Greenberg <[email protected]> wrote:
> This is partly just to vent, partly a request for information/advice.
>
[snipped details of a beef i am SO familiar with (with which I am SO
familiar?)
> I spent
> a long time cleaning up the MDF dust that was spread ALL OVER my shop.
and Art continueth:
> It was quite a mess. Fortunately I was using a respirator. and the fine dust that was generated did
> stick pretty well to just about every surface in my shop.
Well, Art, at the risk of sounding like a smart-ass: make your shop
smaller. At least, your 'dust zone'.
As a solid surface fabricator, dust is a way of life. There are times
when there are sanders, and 2-3 routers going all at the same time.
There simply is NO way to control all that dust at the source. We have
made decent in-roads with our sanders, but the router simply fling
crap everywhere. Fortunately, the dust in question is non-toxic, and
quite inert. It is also heavy and drops to the floor right
quick....unlike our friend MDF, which stands for MuchoDustFlying.
6 mil vapour barrier is cheap, and making a small tent around your
work is not that hard. Zip-Wall makes a kit which you can easily
duplicate for less by looking at their methods. Tents can be any size
and open on one end.
Hooking up a dust collector to the tent works, as long as you realize
that the entire tent wants to crawl inside the hose....and, of course,
use respirators.
On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 19:52:31 GMT, Robert Allison wrote:
> With MDF, you are going to have dust, period, get used to it.
Understood.
> What I do, though, is to just use a shop vac which I either
> hold the nozzle next to wherever the dust is coming out, or I
> have my helper do it. I use one of the small ones with the
> 1-1/4 inch hose and I hold it real close to the work. You
> will be surprised at how easily you can hold both the nozzle
> and the router.
>
> It works better if you have a helper to hold it though.
I think I could manage that alone if the router is fully supported. But
when doing edge forming, with the base more than half off the work, I'd
have to insist on a helper for that.
--
Art Greenberg
artg at eclipse dot net
On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 20:41:39 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>
> downdraft table if the part is mobile enough.
Now _that_ is a great idea. Another project for the shop!
--
Art Greenberg
artg at eclipse dot net
On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 14:03:12 -0500, Morris Dovey wrote:
> Art Greenberg wrote:
>
> | What do YOU do for dust collection when using a router hand-held?
> | Are you happy with the results?
>
> Take it outside when I can. It's not the hand-held router so much as
> it's the MDF. I decided early on that MDF is actually just dust, held
> together by surface tension.
For MDF, you're probably right. I still have issues with solid wood, but
not nearly as bad as with MDF.
--
Art Greenberg
artg at eclipse dot net
On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 06:51:35 -0700, Robatoy wrote:
> Well, Art, at the risk of sounding like a smart-ass: make your shop
> smaller. At least, your 'dust zone'.
[ ... snip ... ]
Rob, I like that suggestion. If I had the space, I could set up a "dust
booth", sumething like a paint booth but using a dust collector instead
of an exhaust fan, for the purpose.
Using plastic sheet for that with a dust collector would mean being much
more careful about letting makeup air in, so the tent doesn't get sucked
in. I suppose using wood frames with the plastic mounted under some
tension would make for a light weight, collapsible booth.
For whatever reason, though, I find myself working on pretty large
stuff. My fireplace mantel is over 7 feet across. So my main
workbench/assembly table is a full 4 x 8 feet. There's really not much
room around it, or anywhere else in my shop, for a dust booth of any
kind right now.
Guess I'll file this idea for future use - I am looking forward to
having a much larger shop one day.
Thanks!
--
Art Greenberg
artg at eclipse dot net
On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 12:49:33 -0400, Charley wrote:
> Leigh makes a vacuum attachment for use with their dovetail fixtures
> that collects the chips from the side of the cutting operation that
> also works great for any routing operations that are along the edge
> of a board. It has a swinging collector with a roller that rubs along
> the part that you are routing. Go to www.leighjigs.com and look at
> their RVA-1 vacuum attachment. It won't work when you are dadoing
> across the center of a board, but it works great when doing most
> routing operations along the edges of a board.
Thanks. This is somewhat like one of the attachments I have for the
Bosch router, though it is fixed in position, unlike the Leigh. One
limitation of the Bosch version is that its only about 1 inch high, and
it is intended to be mounted so it passes under (or quite close to) the
free end of the cutter. So it can't be used when edge forming with a
long cutter. It looks like the Leight may be even smaller in that
dimension, though it doesn't go under the cutter.
I do like that the Leigh is somewhat self adjusting, and I like the
routing of the vaccum hose much better than the way the Bosch unit is
set up. Might be worth having a look at up close.
--
Art Greenberg
artg at eclipse dot net
On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 13:33:20 -0400, B A R R Y wrote:
> Art Greenberg wrote:
> >
> > I do like that the Leigh is somewhat self adjusting, and I like the
> > routing of the vaccum hose much better than the way the Bosch unit is
> > set up. Might be worth having a look at up close.
>
> I own both of those devices. I think I've used them twice each before
> relegating them to the shelf. Neither impressed me enough to continue
> to use them and put up with the hose, reduced visibility, etc...
Thanks for that input, Barry.
--
Art Greenberg
artg at eclipse dot net
Morris Dovey wrote:
> Art Greenberg wrote:
>
> | What do YOU do for dust collection when using a router hand-held?
> | Are you happy with the results?
>
> Take it outside when I can. It's not the hand-held router so much as
> it's the MDF. I decided early on that MDF is actually just dust, held
> together by surface tension.
>
> --
> Morris Dovey
> DeSoto Solar
> DeSoto, Iowa USA
> http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
>
>
That was hilarious! Sprayed Dr. Pepper on my computer.
To the OP;
With MDF, you are going to have dust, period, get used to it.
What I do, though, is to just use a shop vac which I either
hold the nozzle next to wherever the dust is coming out, or I
have my helper do it. I use one of the small ones with the
1-1/4 inch hose and I hold it real close to the work. You
will be surprised at how easily you can hold both the nozzle
and the router.
It works better if you have a helper to hold it though.
--
Robert Allison
Rimshot, Inc.
Georgetown, TX
Art Greenberg wrote:
| What do YOU do for dust collection when using a router hand-held?
| Are you happy with the results?
Take it outside when I can. It's not the hand-held router so much as
it's the MDF. I decided early on that MDF is actually just dust, held
together by surface tension.
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
B A R R Y wrote:
| I'm not so suire you COULD collect it
| from a 25,000 RPM bit.
It's possible (I don't have any problem with the CNC router - but
there's a "shoe" that completely surrounds the bit).
But with a hand-held router it just /wants/ to be messy. :-D
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
"Art Greenberg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> This is partly just to vent, partly a request for information/advice.
>
> I have two routers I use hand-held, a Bosch 1617 and a DeWalt 621. I
> have some of the accessory dust collection attachments for the Bosch,
> and the DeWalt comes with dust collection above the cutter built in. I
> have a Fein Turbo III that I use with both. I am not very satisfied with
> the results.
>
> I just finished routing out the opening for the mounting plate in my
> router table top. It is MDF, with HP laminate on both surfaces. I was
> unable to use the DeWalt because the template bit I used to cut the
> "ledge" is quite short (as it had to be, the cut is only 3/8-inch deep),
> and the "reach" of the DeWalt router is limited because the hole in the
> top of the dust collection shroud won't pass the collet nut. So I used
> the Bosch, with the above the cutter shroud attachment. For that part of
> the job, the dust collection was just OK.
>
> Then I roughed out the through-opening with a jigsaw, and used the Bosch
> router to clean up the cut. THAT was a mistake. I couldn't use the dust
> collection shroud for edge forming operations inside the small cutout,
> and the above the cutter shroud didn't really work well at all. I spent
> a long time cleaning up the MDF dust that was spread ALL OVER my shop.
> It was quite a mess. Fortunately I was using a respirator.
>
> Previously, I'd used the Bosch to cut dados and do some edge forming on
> a large piece of Wenge, for my fireplace mantel. I had similar problems
> then, but the Wenge produced far less fine dust than the MDF did. The
> Wenge, however, is a bit oily, and the fine dust that was generated did
> stick pretty well to just about every surface in my shop.
>
> This experience makes me rather leary of using the router hand-held,
> except for the smallest operations (e.g., mortices). It seems to me,
> there must be a solution to this problem.
>
> What do YOU do for dust collection when using a router hand-held? Are
> you happy with the results?
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
> Art Greenberg
> artg at eclipse dot net
>
The main problem with trying to collect router dust is that the router
throws most of the dust and chips to the side as it cuts. Most of the vacuum
attachments that are available for routers attempt to collect the chips from
above (or in the case of a router table from below) the cutter and this
isn't where the chips are usually headed. Leigh makes a vacuum attachment
for use with their dovetail fixtures that collects the chips from the side
of the cutting operation that also works great for any routing operations
that are along the edge of a board. It has a swinging collector with a
roller that rubs along the part that you are routing. Go to
www.leighjigs.com and look at their RVA-1 vacuum attachment. It won't work
when you are dadoing across the center of a board, but it works great when
doing most routing operations along the edges of a board.
Charley
B A R R Y wrote:
| Morris Dovey wrote:
||
|| But with a hand-held router it just /wants/ to be messy. :-D
|
| I can see it now... Two 4" DC hoses, one over each shoulder!
With my little hand-held 690, I don't even try.
Router table setup: http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/Cyclone.html
CNC router: http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/dust_collection.html
I kinda like the downdraft table idea mentioned.
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/dust_collection.html
My Leigh VRS has been on backorder for the last 6+ months. It was originally
supposed to ship in May. On last check it is now supposed to ship by the end
of August. They've been advertising it as "coming soon" since about January.
I think they've been putting all of their time into the release of their 3
new dovetail fixtures and making the VRS to fit them has caused the delays.
Maybe, now that they are supposed to be shipping the new dovetail fixtures,
they'll get time to finish and ship my VRS to me. I think it's a mistake to
advertise something as "coming soon" and then not be able to ship the
product within a reasonable amount of time, but my prior experience with
Leigh and their products has all been nothing short of first class, so I'm
trying to be patient with them on this one.
I'll provide a report on it when ( or if ) it ever arrives.
Charley
"B A R R Y" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Robert Allison wrote:
> >
> > Actually, that is when I do it the most. I rarely do anything where the
> > router is fully supported.
> >
>
>
> Speaking of support and DC, has anyone had a hands-on with the Leigh VRS
> yet?
>
>
> The video on Leigh's site looks promising.
Art Greenberg wrote:
>
> I do like that the Leigh is somewhat self adjusting, and I like the
> routing of the vaccum hose much better than the way the Bosch unit is
> set up. Might be worth having a look at up close.
I own both of those devices. I think I've used them twice each before
relegating them to the shelf. Neither impressed me enough to continue
to use them and put up with the hose, reduced visibility, etc...
Art Greenberg wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 19:52:31 GMT, Robert Allison wrote:
>
>> With MDF, you are going to have dust, period, get used to it.
>
>
> Understood.
>
>
>> What I do, though, is to just use a shop vac which I either
>> hold the nozzle next to wherever the dust is coming out, or I
>> have my helper do it. I use one of the small ones with the
>> 1-1/4 inch hose and I hold it real close to the work. You
>> will be surprised at how easily you can hold both the nozzle
>> and the router.
>>
>> It works better if you have a helper to hold it though.
>
>
> I think I could manage that alone if the router is fully supported. But
> when doing edge forming, with the base more than half off the work, I'd
> have to insist on a helper for that.
>
Actually, that is when I do it the most. I rarely do anything
where the router is fully supported.
--
Robert Allison
Rimshot, Inc.
Georgetown, TX
Morris Dovey wrote:
>
> Take it outside when I can. It's not the hand-held router so much as
> it's the MDF.
Same here.
I don't find the chips generated from solid wood all that objectionable,
and they sweep up quickly.
MDF, ugh... There's enough dust to make the neighbors think an
explosion is in progress! I'm not so suire you COULD collect it from a
25,000 RPM bit.
On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 18:44:46 -0000, Art Greenberg <[email protected]>
wrote:
>This is partly just to vent, partly a request for information/advice.
>
>I have two routers I use hand-held, a Bosch 1617 and a DeWalt 621. I
>have some of the accessory dust collection attachments for the Bosch,
>and the DeWalt comes with dust collection above the cutter built in. I
>have a Fein Turbo III that I use with both. I am not very satisfied with
>the results.
>
>I just finished routing out the opening for the mounting plate in my
>router table top.
Well now that you have the router table, do as much as you can there.
I have a Triton router in my table which does have a shroud and a
1-1/4" port on the base. My dust collection goes to a Y with one side
going to a port in the fence and the other reducing to 1-1/4 then
going under the table to the port in the router base. Other than the
odd chip that pops out it gets practically everything on edge routing,
though I haven't tried to edge profile MDF.
If router table collection can be good I don't see why handheld can't
be too with the right setup. I do so little handheld though that I
usually just deal with the mess after rather than bother.
-Leuf
I've been following this and hoping / expecting that someone would bring up
Festool. The reason for my interest is that I have been trying to justify
the cost of their circular saw and rail system. One of my thoughts had been
that I could add their router (with it's dust collection) in the future and
that would be another use for the expensive rails. Is the dust collection on
the Festool router less than advertised or was it just over looked?
Swingman, Leon help!
Thanks
JEP
"Art Greenberg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> This is partly just to vent, partly a request for information/advice.
>
> I have two routers I use hand-held, a Bosch 1617 and a DeWalt 621. I
> have some of the accessory dust collection attachments for the Bosch,
> and the DeWalt comes with dust collection above the cutter built in. I
> have a Fein Turbo III that I use with both. I am not very satisfied with
> the results.
>
> I just finished routing out the opening for the mounting plate in my
> router table top. It is MDF, with HP laminate on both surfaces. I was
> unable to use the DeWalt because the template bit I used to cut the
> "ledge" is quite short (as it had to be, the cut is only 3/8-inch deep),
> and the "reach" of the DeWalt router is limited because the hole in the
> top of the dust collection shroud won't pass the collet nut. So I used
> the Bosch, with the above the cutter shroud attachment. For that part of
> the job, the dust collection was just OK.
>
> Then I roughed out the through-opening with a jigsaw, and used the Bosch
> router to clean up the cut. THAT was a mistake. I couldn't use the dust
> collection shroud for edge forming operations inside the small cutout,
> and the above the cutter shroud didn't really work well at all. I spent
> a long time cleaning up the MDF dust that was spread ALL OVER my shop.
> It was quite a mess. Fortunately I was using a respirator.
>
> Previously, I'd used the Bosch to cut dados and do some edge forming on
> a large piece of Wenge, for my fireplace mantel. I had similar problems
> then, but the Wenge produced far less fine dust than the MDF did. The
> Wenge, however, is a bit oily, and the fine dust that was generated did
> stick pretty well to just about every surface in my shop.
>
> This experience makes me rather leary of using the router hand-held,
> except for the smallest operations (e.g., mortices). It seems to me,
> there must be a solution to this problem.
>
> What do YOU do for dust collection when using a router hand-held? Are
> you happy with the results?
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
> Art Greenberg
> artg at eclipse dot net
>