OT: Light bulbs

On Jun 24, 8:06=A0am, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> These rags have to continually revive and reinvent "trends" in order to
> keep churning out issues, with nothing new in the interim ... and
> anything new, like the current availability of a myriad of choices with
> regard to "light", is grist for the mill.
>
In a similar vein, one trend that annoys me is that unless your new
car has a START button, you're driving something 'old'.

I can walk into somebody's house (with some exceptions, mind you) and
can tell you =B1 2 years when they last decorated and which shows they
watch and whcih magazines they read. Martha Stewart is the
AntiDecoratresse. Evil!

Robatoy wrote:

>
> Me luuuuv pastrami on rye.... luuve Montreal smoked meat even more...
> Moe Panzer in Toronto has the best I ever had, but am always hoping
> for an even better sammich.

I wish I had not deleted the picture I took with my cell phone of the last
hot pastrami sandwich I had at Roxi's. The thing takes up a whole platter
and you can't take a bite out of it - you have to eat your way into it.
It's just a monster! $15 for a sandwich might initially strike you as crazy
expensive, but..... it's not!

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

>Lots, and they spend a ludicrous amount of time agonizing over it.
>I think it comes from the kitchen and bath magazine industry, which
>women (specifically those whose biological clock is no longer ticking)
>buy by the millions.

Speak for yourself! I (a woman) don't read those magazines or any
other "chic" magazines, as I hear them called. Waste of paper imho.

However, I do know a few men who do, and, what's more, they believe
and buy! Llast year some friends bought a new house and proceeded to
renovate the kitchen/dinning room/family room into one large room
because seperate rooms were too old fashioned/small. Cost $56k to cut
out the dinning room and redo the kitchen with new stainless
appliances and modern features. I can understand wanting a great room,
but the kitchen was only 4 mos old and so were the appliances!

To each their own.

>These rags have to continually revive and reinvent "trends" in order to
>keep churning out issues, with nothing new in the interim ... and
>anything new, like the current availability of a myriad of choices with
>regard to "light", is grist for the mill.

True, and it's not just with bulbs or magazines, it's with everything.
Turn on the TV and you'll be flooded with ads doing the same thing.
Marketing is another word for propaganda. ;)

On Sun, 26 Jun 2011 22:58:03 -0500, "Pete S"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>Maybe a little off topic, but I have noticed that florescent bulbs seem to
>get a film on them over the winter. I take them down and clean them with
>rubbing alcohol and they very often work again. Anyone else have this
>experience?

Mine gather dust yearround. If you use a propane torpedo for heat,
they'll also get moist and gather more dust than usual.

I've always used a wet rag to clean mine (every couple years?), not
needing alcohol.

--
The whole life of man is but a point of time; let us enjoy it.
-- Plutarch

On Jun 24, 2:30=A0pm, Casper <[email protected]> wrote:

> Marketing is another word for propaganda. ;)

Did you say that knowingly? (I can never tell with you women ;D)


Have a look at this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_%28book%29

Robatoy wrote:
> On Jun 24, 12:38 pm, Han <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote in
>> news:d26ac3c4-0213-424e-9a84-
>> [email protected]:
>>
>>> On Jun 24, 9:28 am, Han <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote in
>>>> news:153bd113-ac1b-461d-9c7f-
>>>> [email protected]:
>>
>>>>> I can walk into somebody's house (with some exceptions, mind you)
>>>>> and can tell you ñ 2 years when they last decorated and which
>>>>> shows they watch and whcih magazines they read. Martha Stewart is
>>>>> the AntiDecoratresse. Evil!
>>
>>>> Next time you want to visit NY, you can come and stay with us ...
>>>> If you can tell me what I want to know ...
>>
>>> Ooooohhh, don't tempt me with that and I hope Angela doesn't read
>>> this. She's been chomping at the bit to go shopping in NYC.
>>
>> Well, it is a 35-40 min trip using 2 NJT trains before you're at Penn
>> Station next to Macy's ...
>>
>
> How far to Bloomingdale's? <G>
>
> Then how far to 321 West 46th Street? (Barbetta's Restaurant where I
> had some of the most incredible meals ever.)

Lunch at Roxi's at Times Square. To die for hot pastami sandwiches.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Maybe a little off topic, but I have noticed that florescent bulbs seem to
get a film on them over the winter. I take them down and clean them with
rubbing alcohol and they very often work again. Anyone else have this
experience?

Pete Stanaitis
---------------

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>
> On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 20:28:39 -0400, J. Clarke wrote:
>
> > Several flourescents in the shop have been balky about starting of late,
> > so I went down to Home Despot for some replacements.
> >
> > They have a whole big display of Phillips Alto bulbs. The 40 watt cool
> > white plus that produce 3200 lumens go 10 for 14.95. The "Natural
> > Sunshine" which produce 2200 lumens go for 34.95. The "Natural
> > Sunshine" though have a color rendering index of 92 while the Cool White
> > Plus have 70.
>
> That's a ridiculous price.

That's for ten bulbs.

> I don't like the cool white for my model RR,
> they make everything look too blue. I use the GE "kitchen and bath"
> bulbs. I just bought two new ones (T5) for a total of $9.98. If they're
> too reddish for you, go with one of those and one cool white in the same
> fixture.

AK. I find different color bulbs in the same fixture to be distracting.

On 6/26/2011 9:56 AM, Robatoy wrote:
> In article<[email protected]>,
> "Mike Marlow"<[email protected]> wrote:

>>> Then how far to 321 West 46th Street? (Barbetta's Restaurant where I
>>> had some of the most incredible meals ever.)
>>
>> Lunch at Roxi's at Times Square. To die for hot pastami sandwiches.
>
> Me luuuuv pastrami on rye.... luuve Montreal smoked meat even more...
> Moe Panzer in Toronto has the best I ever had, but am always hoping for
> an even better sammich.

Traveled round the world twice and I've never found deli's like Montreal's!

I don't think it gets any better!

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote in news:153bd113-ac1b-461d-9c7f-
[email protected]:

> I can walk into somebody's house (with some exceptions, mind you) and
> can tell you ñ 2 years when they last decorated and which shows they
> watch and whcih magazines they read. Martha Stewart is the
> AntiDecoratresse. Evil!
>

Next time you want to visit NY, you can come and stay with us ... If you
can tell me what I want to know ...

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote in news:d26ac3c4-0213-424e-9a84-
[email protected]:

> On Jun 24, 9:28 am, Han <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote in news:153bd113-ac1b-461d-9c7f-
>> [email protected]:
>>
>> > I can walk into somebody's house (with some exceptions, mind you) and
>> > can tell you ñ 2 years when they last decorated and which shows they
>> > watch and whcih magazines they read. Martha Stewart is the
>> > AntiDecoratresse. Evil!
>>
>> Next time you want to visit NY, you can come and stay with us ...  If
>> you can tell me what I want to know ...
>>
> Ooooohhh, don't tempt me with that and I hope Angela doesn't read
> this. She's been chomping at the bit to go shopping in NYC.

Well, it is a 35-40 min trip using 2 NJT trains before you're at Penn
Station next to Macy's ...

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> On Jun 24, 12:38 pm, Han <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote in
>> news:d26ac3c4-0213-424e-9a84-
>> [email protected]:
>>
>> > On Jun 24, 9:28 am, Han <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote in
>> >> news:153bd113-ac1b-461d-9c7
> f-
>> >> [email protected]:
>>
>> >> > I can walk into somebody's house (with some exceptions, mind
>> >> > you) an
> d
>> >> > can tell you ñ 2 years when they last decorated and which shows
>> >> > th
> ey
>> >> > watch and whcih magazines they read. Martha Stewart is the
>> >> > AntiDecoratresse. Evil!
>>
>> >> Next time you want to visit NY, you can come and stay with us ...
>> >>  I
> f
>> >> you can tell me what I want to know ...
>>
>> > Ooooohhh, don't tempt me with that and I hope Angela doesn't read
>> > this. She's been chomping at the bit to go shopping in NYC.
>>
>> Well, it is a 35-40 min trip using 2 NJT trains before you're at Penn
>> Station next to Macy's ...
>>
>
> How far to Bloomingdale's? <G>
>
> Then how far to 321 West 46th Street? (Barbetta's Restaurant where I
> had some of the most incredible meals ever.)

From Penn Sta (8th Ave & 32nd Str, where there is a cab stand), I'd guess
a 20 min stroll if you care to walk.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Han <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> On Jun 24, 12:38 pm, Han <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote in
>>> news:d26ac3c4-0213-424e-9a84-
>>> [email protected]:
>>>
>>> > On Jun 24, 9:28 am, Han <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> >> Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote in
>>> >> news:153bd113-ac1b-461d-9c7
>> f-
>>> >> [email protected]:
>>>
>>> >> > I can walk into somebody's house (with some exceptions, mind
>>> >> > you) an
>> d
>>> >> > can tell you ñ 2 years when they last decorated and which shows
>>> >> > th
>> ey
>>> >> > watch and whcih magazines they read. Martha Stewart is the
>>> >> > AntiDecoratresse. Evil!
>>>
>>> >> Next time you want to visit NY, you can come and stay with us ...
>>> >>  I
>> f
>>> >> you can tell me what I want to know ...
>>>
>>> > Ooooohhh, don't tempt me with that and I hope Angela doesn't read
>>> > this. She's been chomping at the bit to go shopping in NYC.
>>>
>>> Well, it is a 35-40 min trip using 2 NJT trains before you're at
>>> Penn Station next to Macy's ...
>>>
>>
>> How far to Bloomingdale's? <G>

Take the subway

>> Then how far to 321 West 46th Street? (Barbetta's Restaurant where I
>> had some of the most incredible meals ever.)
>
> From Penn Sta (8th Ave & 32nd Str, where there is a cab stand), I'd
> guess a 20 min stroll if you care to walk to Barbetta's.



--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Han wrote:
>> Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote in
>> news:d26ac3c4-0213-424e-9a84-
>> [email protected]:
>>
>>> On Jun 24, 9:28 am, Han <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote in
>>>> news:153bd113-ac1b-461d-9c7f-
>>>> [email protected]:
>>>>
>>>>> I can walk into somebody's house (with some exceptions, mind you)
>>>>> and can tell you ñ 2 years when they last decorated and which
>>>>> shows they watch and whcih magazines they read. Martha Stewart is
>>>>> the AntiDecoratresse. Evil!
>>>>
>>>> Next time you want to visit NY, you can come and stay with us ...
>>>> If you can tell me what I want to know ...
>>>>
>>> Ooooohhh, don't tempt me with that and I hope Angela doesn't read
>>> this. She's been chomping at the bit to go shopping in NYC.
>>
>> Well, it is a 35-40 min trip using 2 NJT trains before you're at Penn
>> Station next to Macy's ...
>
> Alright you guys... if this is going to go on any further, we're going
> to plan a get-together. Syracuse is only 4 or 5 hours from NYC, and
> my wife does not require any convincing to spend a weekend down there.

OK, there is also this:
<http://fairlawnparamus.place.hyatt.com/hyatt/hotels/place/index.jsp>
Keepin mind that in Bergen County, the blue laws keep department and many
other stores closed on Sundays. Nevertheless, Paramus NJ has a huge
number of malls around the intersection of Rts 4 and 17, including an
IKEA

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On Jun 24, 9:28=A0am, Han <[email protected]> wrote:
> Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote in news:153bd113-ac1b-461d-9c7f-
> [email protected]:
>
> > I can walk into somebody's house (with some exceptions, mind you) and
> > can tell you =F1 2 years when they last decorated and which shows they
> > watch and whcih magazines they read. Martha Stewart is the
> > AntiDecoratresse. Evil!
>
> Next time you want to visit NY, you can come and stay with us ... =A0If y=
ou
> can tell me what I want to know ...
>
Ooooohhh, don't tempt me with that and I hope Angela doesn't read
this. She's been chomping at the bit to go shopping in NYC.

Han wrote:
> Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:d26ac3c4-0213-424e-9a84- [email protected]:
>
>> On Jun 24, 9:28 am, Han <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote in
>>> news:153bd113-ac1b-461d-9c7f-
>>> [email protected]:
>>>
>>>> I can walk into somebody's house (with some exceptions, mind you)
>>>> and can tell you ñ 2 years when they last decorated and which
>>>> shows they watch and whcih magazines they read. Martha Stewart is
>>>> the AntiDecoratresse. Evil!
>>>
>>> Next time you want to visit NY, you can come and stay with us ... If
>>> you can tell me what I want to know ...
>>>
>> Ooooohhh, don't tempt me with that and I hope Angela doesn't read
>> this. She's been chomping at the bit to go shopping in NYC.
>
> Well, it is a 35-40 min trip using 2 NJT trains before you're at Penn
> Station next to Macy's ...

Alright you guys... if this is going to go on any further, we're going to
plan a get-together. Syracuse is only 4 or 5 hours from NYC, and my wife
does not require any convincing to spend a weekend down there.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On Jun 24, 12:38=A0pm, Han <[email protected]> wrote:
> Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote in news:d26ac3c4-0213-424e-9a84-
> [email protected]:
>
> > On Jun 24, 9:28=A0am, Han <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote in news:153bd113-ac1b-461d-9c7=
f-
> >> [email protected]:
>
> >> > I can walk into somebody's house (with some exceptions, mind you) an=
d
> >> > can tell you =F1 2 years when they last decorated and which shows th=
ey
> >> > watch and whcih magazines they read. Martha Stewart is the
> >> > AntiDecoratresse. Evil!
>
> >> Next time you want to visit NY, you can come and stay with us ... =A0I=
f
> >> you can tell me what I want to know ...
>
> > Ooooohhh, don't tempt me with that and I hope Angela doesn't read
> > this. She's been chomping at the bit to go shopping in NYC.
>
> Well, it is a 35-40 min trip using 2 NJT trains before you're at Penn
> Station next to Macy's ...
>

How far to Bloomingdale's? <G>

Then how far to 321 West 46th Street? (Barbetta's Restaurant where I
had some of the most incredible meals ever.)

On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 20:28:39 -0400, J. Clarke wrote:

> Several flourescents in the shop have been balky about starting of late,
> so I went down to Home Despot for some replacements.
>
> They have a whole big display of Phillips Alto bulbs. The 40 watt cool
> white plus that produce 3200 lumens go 10 for 14.95. The "Natural
> Sunshine" which produce 2200 lumens go for 34.95. The "Natural
> Sunshine" though have a color rendering index of 92 while the Cool White
> Plus have 70.

That's a ridiculous price. I don't like the cool white for my model RR,
they make everything look too blue. I use the GE "kitchen and bath"
bulbs. I just bought two new ones (T5) for a total of $9.98. If they're
too reddish for you, go with one of those and one cool white in the same
fixture.

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

Swingman wrote:
> On 6/23/2011 7:28 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>
>> They have a whole big display of Phillips Alto bulbs. The 40 watt cool
>> white plus that produce 3200 lumens go 10 for 14.95. The "Natural
>> Sunshine" which produce 2200 lumens go for 34.95. The "Natural
>> Sunshine" though have a color rendering index of 92 while the Cool White
>> Plus have 70.
>>
>> I've been rendering colors just fine for 20 years with cool whites. I
>> might have paid a couple of bucks more for the same brightness and
>> better CRI, but more than twice the price for 2/3 the brightness is
>> totally ludicrous.
>>
>> I wonder how many people actually buy the things.
>
> Lots, and they spend a ludicrous amount of time agonizing over it.

I may not be able to drive any car or truck or RV I want, but I can
use any kind of fluorescent bulb I want. Leon suggested those Natural
Sunshine bulbs (that are $7 a pair at Lowes) and I bought a few (6). I'm
going to try them out in the next few days. I'll compare them with the
cool white that are currently up and report back. The existing ones are
(the larger) t-10s, but It should still be interesting to observe any
qualitative differences.

Bill

>
> I've noticed in the past few years a trend for "lighting plans" to spec
> and pay particular attention to the bulbs, light color, lumens, etc.,
> and less to the fixtures they go in.
>
> The whole house lighting plan for the remodel I'm finishing up now never
> even mentions fixtures, but is very specific as to bulb in every case
> ... makes it difficult to design cabinets and architectural elements for
> the things like cabinet, cove, and back lighting.
>
> I think it comes from the kitchen and bath magazine industry, which
> women (specifically those whose biological clock is no longer ticking)
> buy by the millions.
>
> These rags have to continually revive and reinvent "trends" in order to
> keep churning out issues, with nothing new in the interim ... and
> anything new, like the current availability of a myriad of choices with
> regard to "light", is grist for the mill.
>

On Sun, 26 Jun 2011 10:56:33 -0400, Robatoy wrote:

> Me luuuuv pastrami on rye....

You left out the swiss cheese!

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

J. Clarke wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
> says...
>>
>> On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 20:28:39 -0400, J. Clarke wrote:
>>
>>> Several flourescents in the shop have been balky about starting of
>>> late, so I went down to Home Despot for some replacements.
>>>
>>> They have a whole big display of Phillips Alto bulbs. The 40 watt
>>> cool white plus that produce 3200 lumens go 10 for 14.95. The
>>> "Natural Sunshine" which produce 2200 lumens go for 34.95. The
>>> "Natural Sunshine" though have a color rendering index of 92 while
>>> the Cool White Plus have 70.
>>
>> That's a ridiculous price.
>
> That's for ten bulbs.
>
>> I don't like the cool white for my model RR,
>> they make everything look too blue. I use the GE "kitchen and bath"
>> bulbs. I just bought two new ones (T5) for a total of $9.98. If
>> they're too reddish for you, go with one of those and one cool white
>> in the same fixture.
>
> AK. I find different color bulbs in the same fixture to be
> distracting.

But dentists (and the ladies) like them because they show what the subject
(tooth or makeup) will look like in several types of lighting.

On 6/24/2011 8:30 AM, Casper wrote:
>> Lots, and they spend a ludicrous amount of time agonizing over it.
>> I think it comes from the kitchen and bath magazine industry, which
>> women (specifically those whose biological clock is no longer ticking)
>> buy by the millions.
>
> Speak for yourself! I (a woman) don't read those magazines or any
> other "chic" magazines, as I hear them called. Waste of paper imho.
>
> However, I do know a few men who do, and, what's more, they believe
> and buy!

Yabbut, they talk funny. :)

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

In article <[email protected]>,
"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Robatoy wrote:
>
> >
> > Me luuuuv pastrami on rye.... luuve Montreal smoked meat even more...
> > Moe Panzer in Toronto has the best I ever had, but am always hoping
> > for an even better sammich.
>
> I wish I had not deleted the picture I took with my cell phone of the last
> hot pastrami sandwich I had at Roxi's. The thing takes up a whole platter
> and you can't take a bite out of it - you have to eat your way into it.
> It's just a monster! $15 for a sandwich might initially strike you as crazy
> expensive, but..... it's not!

I can get my head around a big pile of pastrami for 15
bucks....waitasec...

In article <[email protected]>,
"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Robatoy wrote:
> > On Jun 24, 12:38 pm, Han <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote in
> >> news:d26ac3c4-0213-424e-9a84-
> >> [email protected]:
> >>
> >>> On Jun 24, 9:28 am, Han <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>> Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote in
> >>>> news:153bd113-ac1b-461d-9c7f-
> >>>> [email protected]:
> >>
> >>>>> I can walk into somebody's house (with some exceptions, mind you)
> >>>>> and can tell you ñ 2 years when they last decorated and which
> >>>>> shows they watch and whcih magazines they read. Martha Stewart is
> >>>>> the AntiDecoratresse. Evil!
> >>
> >>>> Next time you want to visit NY, you can come and stay with us ...
> >>>> If you can tell me what I want to know ...
> >>
> >>> Ooooohhh, don't tempt me with that and I hope Angela doesn't read
> >>> this. She's been chomping at the bit to go shopping in NYC.
> >>
> >> Well, it is a 35-40 min trip using 2 NJT trains before you're at Penn
> >> Station next to Macy's ...
> >>
> >
> > How far to Bloomingdale's? <G>
> >
> > Then how far to 321 West 46th Street? (Barbetta's Restaurant where I
> > had some of the most incredible meals ever.)
>
> Lunch at Roxi's at Times Square. To die for hot pastami sandwiches.

Me luuuuv pastrami on rye.... luuve Montreal smoked meat even more...
Moe Panzer in Toronto has the best I ever had, but am always hoping for
an even better sammich.

In article <[email protected]>,
Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:

> On 6/26/2011 9:56 AM, Robatoy wrote:
> > In article<[email protected]>,
> > "Mike Marlow"<[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >>> Then how far to 321 West 46th Street? (Barbetta's Restaurant where I
> >>> had some of the most incredible meals ever.)
> >>
> >> Lunch at Roxi's at Times Square. To die for hot pastami sandwiches.
> >
> > Me luuuuv pastrami on rye.... luuve Montreal smoked meat even more...
> > Moe Panzer in Toronto has the best I ever had, but am always hoping for
> > an even better sammich.
>
> Traveled round the world twice and I've never found deli's like Montreal's!
>
> I don't think it gets any better!

You know, it just may not. A that may be one of the reason we like
Montreal as much as we do. That and The Montreal Jazz Festival. Wander
around with a cold pint, listening to a dozen stages, stop in for a
Ruben... yea...

On 6/23/2011 7:28 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>
> They have a whole big display of Phillips Alto bulbs. The 40 watt cool
> white plus that produce 3200 lumens go 10 for 14.95. The "Natural
> Sunshine" which produce 2200 lumens go for 34.95. The "Natural
> Sunshine" though have a color rendering index of 92 while the Cool White
> Plus have 70.
>
> I've been rendering colors just fine for 20 years with cool whites. I
> might have paid a couple of bucks more for the same brightness and
> better CRI, but more than twice the price for 2/3 the brightness is
> totally ludicrous.
>
> I wonder how many people actually buy the things.

Lots, and they spend a ludicrous amount of time agonizing over it.

I've noticed in the past few years a trend for "lighting plans" to spec
and pay particular attention to the bulbs, light color, lumens, etc.,
and less to the fixtures they go in.

The whole house lighting plan for the remodel I'm finishing up now never
even mentions fixtures, but is very specific as to bulb in every case
... makes it difficult to design cabinets and architectural elements for
the things like cabinet, cove, and back lighting.

I think it comes from the kitchen and bath magazine industry, which
women (specifically those whose biological clock is no longer ticking)
buy by the millions.

These rags have to continually revive and reinvent "trends" in order to
keep churning out issues, with nothing new in the interim ... and
anything new, like the current availability of a myriad of choices with
regard to "light", is grist for the mill.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)