Question about kickback and technique.
OK - I had a small piece. 3 1/2" X 4 1/2" X 3/4" that I wanted to cut a
45deg angle on the 4 1/2" side. Pretty strait forward. I was using Right
tilt TS with the fence to the right of the blade. Using a push stick to cut
the angle. The piece was already to size and I was just knocking off the
corner. I encountered severe kickback. The piece shot toward me hit me so
hard in the gut that it left a 3 1/2" bloody welt. Ouch! A heavy canvas
apron would have been a good idea I suppose. The best idea is to learn a
better technique for making this type of cut. Any suggestions? TIA.
"Brikp" wrote in message
> Thanks for the reply Swingman. I didn't control the piece properly and
that
> was the main problem. The push block was just a piece of scrap I had
handy.
> I had limited downward pressure. Also, cutting from the left side seems to
> have been a better plan. I needed up using butt joints in the end. I was
> just making some brackets to hold up curtain hardware so I really didn't
> need the miter cut anyway.
Make yourself a push device that adds some control to the workpiece when you
rip stock and you'll go a long way to alleviating kick back when making that
type of cut.
My modification of the old "shoe" style push block works well for me in this
regard. You can see what it looks like on the Fixtures and Jigs page of my
website below.
It is real easy to copy and cutout with a jig or band saw. Make some of
different thickness plywood for when you're ripping narrow stock.
And remember ... mount and use a splitter on your table saw. A properly
installed splitter is the first line of defense against kickback.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/04/04
>Speaking from experience, how fast you get treated in an emergency room is
>largely determined by how much danger the staff believes you are in. When my
>heart acted up five years ago I walked into the emergency room and up to the
>admitting desk.
>
Agreed - happened to me twice. Stumbled into an out-of-town ER with my
first Kidney Stone, and the attending doc had had them Tossed me
Demerol before the first paper was signed.
Popped into an ER Clinic last year. Nurse said "What's up."
I said, "I damned sorry to say what I'm about to say - but I have a
pain in my chest."
Whooooosh! I think they ran over a few other poor souls rushing me
back and onto an EKG.
Triage.
"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, "Brikp"
<[email protected]> wrote:
> >Question about kickback and technique.
> >
> >OK - I had a small piece. 3 1/2" X 4 1/2" X 3/4" that I wanted to cut a
> >45deg angle on the 4 1/2" side. Pretty strait forward. I was using Right
> >tilt TS with the fence to the right of the blade. Using a push stick to
cut
> >the angle. The piece was already to size and I was just knocking off the
> >corner. I encountered severe kickback. The piece shot toward me hit me so
> >hard in the gut that it left a 3 1/2" bloody welt. Ouch! A heavy canvas
> >apron would have been a good idea I suppose. The best idea is to learn a
> >better technique for making this type of cut. Any suggestions? TIA.
> >
> What were you using to guide the wood, as you made this cut? From your
> description, it sounds like you had nothing to support it. If that's the
> case... that's the reason you had a kickback.
>
> So...
>
> First off, a heavy canvas apron isn't going to make *any* difference. On a
> typical 10" table saw, the tips of the teeth are moving at about 100 mph,
and
> that's approximately the speed the wood will be moving too. That's going
to
> hurt, even through an apron. So the first thing to remember is to make
sure
> you're not standing in the line of fire.
>
> Second, it is imperative to have the wood securely supported, in this case
by
> a miter gauge _at_minimum_. Add an auxiliary fence to the face of the
miter
> gauge, if necessary, so that the wood is supported all the way up to the
> blade.
>
> Third, for cuts on small pieces such as this, it's safer to clamp the
> workpiece to a carrier board or a crosscut sled, so that you're not trying
to
> guide such a tiny piece of wood. The longer the guide surface you have
> available, the less likely you'll have a mishap.
>
> --
> Regards,
> Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
>
> Get a copy of my NEW AND IMPROVED TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter
> by sending email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com
> You must use your REAL email address to get a response.
>
>
Thanks for your reply Doug. The piece was too smal to use a mitre guage to
support without adding an extension, I added this extension for some later
cuts. The Sled sounds like a good idea and I should have considered it.
"George" <george@least> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Yep, best answer is not to cut pieces that small on the table saw where
> they might bind.
>
> Bandsaw, maybe, with a plane to smooth. I believe in that 10" minimum
> length they mention in my instruction manual.
>
>
> "Brikp" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Question about kickback and technique.
> >
> > OK - I had a small piece. 3 1/2" X 4 1/2" X 3/4" that I wanted to cut a
> > 45deg angle on the 4 1/2" side. Pretty strait forward. I was using
Right
> > tilt TS with the fence to the right of the blade. Using a push stick to
> cut
> > the angle. The piece was already to size and I was just knocking off the
> > corner. I encountered severe kickback. The piece shot toward me hit me
so
> > hard in the gut that it left a 3 1/2" bloody welt. Ouch! A heavy canvas
> > apron would have been a good idea I suppose. The best idea is to learn a
> > better technique for making this type of cut. Any suggestions? TIA.
> >
> >
>
>
Thanks for your reply George. I don't have a band saw. I was just making a
simple set of breackets to support some curtain hardware. Shouldn't have
been too involved. Butt joints would have sufficed here and thats where I
ended up.
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Brikp" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Question about kickback and technique.
> >
> > OK - I had a small piece. 3 1/2" X 4 1/2" X 3/4" that I wanted to cut a
> > 45deg angle on the 4 1/2" side. Pretty strait forward. I was using
Right
> > tilt TS with the fence to the right of the blade. Using a push stick to
> cut
> > the angle. The piece was already to size and I was just knocking off the
> > corner. I encountered severe kickback. The piece shot toward me hit me
so
> > hard in the gut that it left a 3 1/2" bloody welt. Ouch! A heavy canvas
> > apron would have been a good idea I suppose. The best idea is to learn a
> > better technique for making this type of cut. Any suggestions? TIA.
>
> Without seeing it, this most likely happened because you didn't control
the
> piece and it got caught between the blade and fence. I'd almost be willing
> to bet you were using a notched push stick?
>
> This is a cut that can be made providing you exert _control_ over the
piece
> between the blade and fence _all the way_ through the cut.
>
> A good push block that will allow you to CONTROL the piece between the
fence
> and the blade by exerting sufficient pressure, downward and toward the
> fence, while keeping you hand well away from the blade, is a must ... as
> you've found out.
>
> Don't stand directly behind the cut, use a well designed push block as
> above, and when using your right tilt to bevel an edge, move the fence to
> the left side of the blade if you can.
>
> --
> www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 10/04/04
>
Thanks for the reply Swingman. I didn't control the piece properly and that
was the main problem. The push block was just a piece of scrap I had handy.
I had limited downward pressure. Also, cutting from the left side seems to
have been a better plan. I needed up using butt joints in the end. I was
just making some brackets to hold up curtain hardware so I really didn't
need the miter cut anyway.
Thanks everyone for the quick responses. This is a great group! I will also
contribute where and when I can.
"Brikp" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Question about kickback and technique.
>
> OK - I had a small piece. 3 1/2" X 4 1/2" X 3/4" that I wanted to cut a
> 45deg angle on the 4 1/2" side. Pretty strait forward. I was using Right
> tilt TS with the fence to the right of the blade. Using a push stick to
cut
> the angle. The piece was already to size and I was just knocking off the
> corner. I encountered severe kickback. The piece shot toward me hit me so
> hard in the gut that it left a 3 1/2" bloody welt. Ouch! A heavy canvas
> apron would have been a good idea I suppose. The best idea is to learn a
> better technique for making this type of cut. Any suggestions? TIA.
>
>
"Bob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Brikp" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > OK - I had a small piece. 3 1/2" X 4 1/2" X 3/4" that I wanted to cut a
> > 45deg angle on the 4 1/2" side. Pretty strait forward. I was using
Right
> > tilt TS with the fence to the right of the blade. Using a push stick to
> cut
> > the angle. The piece was already to size and I was just knocking off the
> > corner. I encountered severe kickback. The piece shot toward me hit me
so
> > hard in the gut that it left a 3 1/2" bloody welt. Ouch! A heavy canvas
> > apron would have been a good idea I suppose. The best idea is to learn a
> > better technique for making this type of cut. Any suggestions? TIA.
>
> If I were going to design a disaster, I couldn't do a better job than what
> your scenario is. You cannot control a piece that small with a simple
push
> stick.
>
> Some possible safer solutions:
>
> 1. Use a cross cut sled with fixed 45 degree angle block and a hold down
> clamp. I think that would be one of the safest approaches.
>
> 2. You could also do it with hand tools - cut off with a hand saw, then
> finish up with a hand plane using a 45 degree shooting board. See this
link
> http://tinyurl.com/627hs and look at the picture labeled mitre trimming.
>
> 3. Make a quick and dirty mini-sled from a larger board that could be held
> against your miter fence. Make a simple hold down clamp using the
principals
> shown on this taper jig: http://tinyurl.com/5pe2e
>
> Bob
>
>
Thanks Bob for your response. The sled seems to be the consensus and a
proper hold down to go along with it. Thanks again. I'm still learning.
I thopught about using my SCMS but it wasn't setup. I don't have room for a
RAS.
"Rumpty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> FWIW, this would not have happened if he had used a RAS.
>
> --
>
> Rumpty
>
> Radial Arm Saw Forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>
>
> "Brikp" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Question about kickback and technique.
> >
> > OK - I had a small piece. 3 1/2" X 4 1/2" X 3/4" that I wanted to cut a
> > 45deg angle on the 4 1/2" side. Pretty strait forward. I was using
Right
> > tilt TS with the fence to the right of the blade. Using a push stick to
> cut
> > the angle. The piece was already to size and I was just knocking off the
> > corner. I encountered severe kickback. The piece shot toward me hit me
so
> > hard in the gut that it left a 3 1/2" bloody welt. Ouch! A heavy canvas
> > apron would have been a good idea I suppose. The best idea is to learn a
> > better technique for making this type of cut. Any suggestions? TIA.
> >
> >
>
>
That's what I was thinking...
Wouldn't a mitre saw be the best thing for something like this? Especially
for safety?
--
-Jim
©¿©¬
If you want to reply by email its --> ryan at jimryan dot com
Please use BCC and lets all avoid spam
"Brikp" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I thopught about using my SCMS but it wasn't setup. I don't have room for
a
> RAS.
>
> "Rumpty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > FWIW, this would not have happened if he had used a RAS.
> >
> > --
> >
> > Rumpty
> >
> > Radial Arm Saw Forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start
> >
> > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> >
> >
> > "Brikp" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > Question about kickback and technique.
> > >
> > > OK - I had a small piece. 3 1/2" X 4 1/2" X 3/4" that I wanted to cut
a
> > > 45deg angle on the 4 1/2" side. Pretty strait forward. I was using
> Right
> > > tilt TS with the fence to the right of the blade. Using a push stick
to
> > cut
> > > the angle. The piece was already to size and I was just knocking off
the
> > > corner. I encountered severe kickback. The piece shot toward me hit me
> so
> > > hard in the gut that it left a 3 1/2" bloody welt. Ouch! A heavy
canvas
> > > apron would have been a good idea I suppose. The best idea is to learn
a
> > > better technique for making this type of cut. Any suggestions? TIA.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Hard to get mulitple quotes when there is only 2 ERs in town, and
NEITHER give "quotes"
Frankly, I was NOT surprised, having worked in the health care
industry for many years, thank heavens for health insurance, and I
really feel bad for folks who get stuck with that $1000+ bill for
about 5minutes worth of debriding and 4 stitches put in by a nurse
Never saw a MD, never was evaluated by a ER doc, but I DID get bill
from the ER doc, probably for "supervising" the nurse
Of course, they xray'd, and it took them 4+ hrs to get to me after I
checked into the ER - but I wasn't bleeding to death and obviously was
LOW on the triage list
John
On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 19:59:10 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"John" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> Only real injury I ever got with my tablesaw was cutting a small piece
>> of wood like this, kicked back, and hit one of my fingers, ran up a
>> $1000+ emergency room bill to get it fixed
>>
>
>The standard rule for contracting services it to get three quotes.
>Obviously you neglected to do that and were raked over the proverbial coals.
>You may have gotten a better price across town. Waiting for the off hours
>may have gotten you a better rate too. Not to mention coupons!
>
Yep, best answer is not to cut pieces that small on the table saw where
they might bind.
Bandsaw, maybe, with a plane to smooth. I believe in that 10" minimum
length they mention in my instruction manual.
"Brikp" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Question about kickback and technique.
>
> OK - I had a small piece. 3 1/2" X 4 1/2" X 3/4" that I wanted to cut a
> 45deg angle on the 4 1/2" side. Pretty strait forward. I was using Right
> tilt TS with the fence to the right of the blade. Using a push stick to
cut
> the angle. The piece was already to size and I was just knocking off the
> corner. I encountered severe kickback. The piece shot toward me hit me so
> hard in the gut that it left a 3 1/2" bloody welt. Ouch! A heavy canvas
> apron would have been a good idea I suppose. The best idea is to learn a
> better technique for making this type of cut. Any suggestions? TIA.
>
>
Brikp wrote:
>
> Question about kickback and technique.
>
> OK - I had a small piece. 3 1/2" X 4 1/2" X 3/4" that I wanted to cut a
> 45deg angle on the 4 1/2" side. Pretty strait forward. I was using Right
> tilt TS with the fence to the right of the blade. Using a push stick to cut
> the angle. The piece was already to size and I was just knocking off the
> corner. I encountered severe kickback. The piece shot toward me hit me so
> hard in the gut that it left a 3 1/2" bloody welt. Ouch! A heavy canvas
> apron would have been a good idea I suppose. The best idea is to learn a
> better technique for making this type of cut. Any suggestions? TIA.
Got a router table? If so, try a 45 degee chammfering bit. It would
be preferable to have a zero clearance insert fence - a chamfering
bit for 3/4" stock has a moderately large diameter. There are all
kinds of jigs and things for holding small parts for routing on a
router table.
charlie b
Brikp wrote:
>
> I thopught about using my SCMS but it wasn't setup. I don't have room for a
> RAS.
>
PLEASE - DON'T TRY MAKING THIS CUT ON AN SCMS.
3 1/2" 4 1/2"
+-----------------------------+-----------------------------+
| / / <----
mitered
+--------------------------+----------------------------+
edge
If I understand it right
he wants to miter the 4 1/2" edge. On an SCMS that would
mean that the 3 1/2" edge would be against the fence and the
4 1/2" edge would be 90s to the fence. That's a recipe for a
problem. Because of the gap in the fence, only a couple of
inches of the 3 1/2" "against the fence" will actually be in
contact with the fence so it won't be supported very well.
Personally, I don't like getting my fingers closer than 6" to
spinning carbide teeth either.
If the miter cut is also to be along the grain - a rip cut rather
than acrossed the grain - the potential for a problem goes
up some more since MS, CMS and SCMS aren't intended for
along the grain rip cuts. I learned this one the hard way -
and on a 12" SCMS.
The safest way to miter the edge in question is with a
chamfering bit in a router table and a zero clearance
fence - with a small part jig or paddle. (assuming you're
a Normite and not a Follower of Roy/Neander)
charlie b
One of the great truths of our healthcare system is this - you only see your
own doctor when you're healthy. Can't get an appointment - emergency
department. We have a couple of "walk-in-clinics" here now where you can
see a doctor when sick, but without the ED rates. Next level - Trauma
center - takes more money still.
"John" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hard to get mulitple quotes when there is only 2 ERs in town, and
> NEITHER give "quotes"
>
> Frankly, I was NOT surprised, having worked in the health care
> industry for many years, thank heavens for health insurance, and I
> really feel bad for folks who get stuck with that $1000+ bill for
> about 5minutes worth of debriding and 4 stitches put in by a nurse
> Never saw a MD, never was evaluated by a ER doc, but I DID get bill
> from the ER doc, probably for "supervising" the nurse
>
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> "John" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >
> > I
> > really feel bad for folks who get stuck with that $1000+ bill for
> > about 5minutes worth
>
> You paid for yourself and the uninsured that brought their child into the ER
> because he has the sniffles. Hospitals incur a terrible waste of recources
> on that stuff.
>
> > Of course, they xray'd, and it took them 4+ hrs to get to me after I
> > checked into the ER - but I wasn't bleeding to death and obviously was
> > LOW on the triage list
>
> Three years ago my wife got ill while we were on vacation. Had to take her
> to the first ER I could find (Those blue H signs are really a big help).
> Walked in, a nurse brought her a wheel chair, took her heart rate (190) and
> took her to a treatment room while the staff was gathering around. No
> stopping at the desk. They began treating her and did not even know her
> name, insurance, etc. It made up for all the horror stories you hear but the
> people that were already waiting probably did not think it was so great.
Speaking from experience, how fast you get treated in an emergency room is
largely determined by how much danger the staff believes you are in. When my
heart acted up five years ago I walked into the emergency room and up to the
admitting desk.
"What is your problem?" Asked the nurse.
"Hypochondria I hope!" I replied fervently.
She took one look at me and they had me back in the room with a BP cuff on.
Inside of five minutes I was on nitro, oxygen and hooked up to a heart monitor.
About ten days later I left the hospital the proud owner of a brand-new
quintuple cardiac bypass. I found out sometime later they had told my wife they
were afraid I wasn't going to make it through that first night.
--RC
You bet. Denial takes a lot of lives. Of course, we men are the worst
offenders, but I see more and more women, who do not necessarily have the
"classic" symptoms delaying until I lay out tube and defib and tell the
partner to speed up.
"Tim Douglass" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
All 3 ER doctors told me that I
> should head straight for the emergency room at the first sign of chest
> pain and call 911 if it seemed at all severe. Being overweight and
> sedentary puts me right into that high risk group.
Doug Miller wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, Rick Cook <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Speaking from experience, how fast you get treated in an emergency room is
> >largely determined by how much danger the staff believes you are in. When my
> >heart acted up five years ago I walked into the emergency room and up to the
> >admitting desk.
> >
> >"What is your problem?" Asked the nurse.
> >"Hypochondria I hope!" I replied fervently.
> >She took one look at me and they had me back in the room with a BP cuff on.
> >Inside of five minutes I was on nitro, oxygen and hooked up to a heart monitor.
> >
> >About ten days later I left the hospital the proud owner of a brand-new
> >quintuple cardiac bypass. I found out sometime later they had told my wife they
> >were afraid I wasn't going to make it through that first night.
>
> Quintuple! Wow! Glad you came out of it OK.
>
> My father had an ER visit that began similarly, a few years ago. He came into
> the ER with a gray complexion, perspiring profusely, dizzy, and nauseated. He
> said that within a minute, they had him on a table, stripped to the waist,
> with an EKG attached. And then everybody calmed down when they saw there was
> nothing wrong with his heart. He left a few days later with a diagnosis of
> inner-ear infection, and prescriptions for potent antibiotics and sedatives.
> It was _six_months_ before the doctors cleared him to drive again.
>
> Anybody who thinks that sight is the most important of the senses is
> forgetting about balance.
>
> --
> Regards,
> Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
>
> Get a copy of my NEW AND IMPROVED TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter
> by sending email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com
> You must use your REAL email address to get a response.
Thanks Doug.
Since heart disease runs in my family I had been alert for the signs for years. I didn't feel all
that badly, but when the feeling started radiating down by left arm, I decided to go in.
Moral: Don't ignore the warning signs even if they don't lay you out with pain.
--RC
"Brikp" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> OK - I had a small piece. 3 1/2" X 4 1/2" X 3/4" that I wanted to cut a
> 45deg angle on the 4 1/2" side. Pretty strait forward. I was using Right
> tilt TS with the fence to the right of the blade. Using a push stick to
cut
> the angle. The piece was already to size and I was just knocking off the
> corner. I encountered severe kickback. The piece shot toward me hit me so
> hard in the gut that it left a 3 1/2" bloody welt. Ouch! A heavy canvas
> apron would have been a good idea I suppose. The best idea is to learn a
> better technique for making this type of cut. Any suggestions? TIA.
If I were going to design a disaster, I couldn't do a better job than what
your scenario is. You cannot control a piece that small with a simple push
stick.
Some possible safer solutions:
1. Use a cross cut sled with fixed 45 degree angle block and a hold down
clamp. I think that would be one of the safest approaches.
2. You could also do it with hand tools - cut off with a hand saw, then
finish up with a hand plane using a 45 degree shooting board. See this link
http://tinyurl.com/627hs and look at the picture labeled mitre trimming.
3. Make a quick and dirty mini-sled from a larger board that could be held
against your miter fence. Make a simple hold down clamp using the principals
shown on this taper jig: http://tinyurl.com/5pe2e
Bob
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> "Rumpty" wrote in message
> > FWIW, this would not have happened if he had used a RAS.
>
> Yeah right, Rumpty ... he'd probably lost a whole damn arm by now. Ya gotta
> be a smart, mean pit bull (sorry wrong thread) of a mutha to survive using a
> RAS for any length of time.
amen to that brother...it is only a matter of time that one will get
hurt ripping on a radial arm saw.......ripping on a radial arm saw is
1945 technology and is so far out of date today in safety and just
plain common sense. If one must rip on a radial arm, please be
careful and use every safety device known.......
Mike from American Sycamore
On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 16:06:43 GMT, patrick conroy
<[email protected]> wrote:
>I said, "I damned sorry to say what I'm about to say - but I have a
>pain in my chest."
>
>Whooooosh! I think they ran over a few other poor souls rushing me
>back and onto an EKG.
I had the other end of that a couple of years ago. All it was was
minor shooting pains in my left arm, but I had to fend off the EKG
trolley with a pointy stick (RSI and tendonitis). And _of_course_ my
chest hurt - I cycle off-road and my intercostal ligaments had been
arguing with a tree just a few days earlier.
Mind you, if I'd been hospitalised in this town, I'd probably have
been dead from MRSA by now. Terrible places hospitals - full of sick
people and med students.
--
Smert' spamionam
FWIW, this would not have happened if he had used a RAS.
--
Rumpty
Radial Arm Saw Forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"Brikp" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Question about kickback and technique.
>
> OK - I had a small piece. 3 1/2" X 4 1/2" X 3/4" that I wanted to cut a
> 45deg angle on the 4 1/2" side. Pretty strait forward. I was using Right
> tilt TS with the fence to the right of the blade. Using a push stick to
cut
> the angle. The piece was already to size and I was just knocking off the
> corner. I encountered severe kickback. The piece shot toward me hit me so
> hard in the gut that it left a 3 1/2" bloody welt. Ouch! A heavy canvas
> apron would have been a good idea I suppose. The best idea is to learn a
> better technique for making this type of cut. Any suggestions? TIA.
>
>
"Brikp" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Question about kickback and technique.
>
> OK - I had a small piece. 3 1/2" X 4 1/2" X 3/4" that I wanted to cut a
> 45deg angle on the 4 1/2" side. Pretty strait forward. I was using Right
> tilt TS with the fence to the right of the blade. Using a push stick to
cut
> the angle. The piece was already to size and I was just knocking off the
> corner. I encountered severe kickback. The piece shot toward me hit me so
> hard in the gut that it left a 3 1/2" bloody welt. Ouch! A heavy canvas
> apron would have been a good idea I suppose. The best idea is to learn a
> better technique for making this type of cut. Any suggestions? TIA.
Without seeing it, this most likely happened because you didn't control the
piece and it got caught between the blade and fence. I'd almost be willing
to bet you were using a notched push stick?
This is a cut that can be made providing you exert _control_ over the piece
between the blade and fence _all the way_ through the cut.
A good push block that will allow you to CONTROL the piece between the fence
and the blade by exerting sufficient pressure, downward and toward the
fence, while keeping you hand well away from the blade, is a must ... as
you've found out.
Don't stand directly behind the cut, use a well designed push block as
above, and when using your right tilt to bevel an edge, move the fence to
the left side of the blade if you can.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/04/04
John wrote:
>> With small pieces, forget the fence and use the miter gauge and a
>> method to clamp the wood to the miter gauge, OR use something liker a
>> GRIPPER to support the wood on both sides of the sawblade
>>
>> Only real injury I ever got with my tablesaw was cutting a small
>> piece of wood like this, kicked back, and hit one of my fingers, ran
>> up a $1000+ emergency room bill to get it fixed
>>
>> John
>>
As someone has said, it is the little jobs that we should think about
most - when the job is too small to make a jig or get the "other" push
stick and so on. If you have two minutes to do a two minute job then go
get a drink of water instead.
Josie
"John" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> I
> really feel bad for folks who get stuck with that $1000+ bill for
> about 5minutes worth
You paid for yourself and the uninsured that brought their child into the ER
because he has the sniffles. Hospitals incur a terrible waste of recources
on that stuff.
> Of course, they xray'd, and it took them 4+ hrs to get to me after I
> checked into the ER - but I wasn't bleeding to death and obviously was
> LOW on the triage list
Three years ago my wife got ill while we were on vacation. Had to take her
to the first ER I could find (Those blue H signs are really a big help).
Walked in, a nurse brought her a wheel chair, took her heart rate (190) and
took her to a treatment room while the staff was gathering around. No
stopping at the desk. They began treating her and did not even know her
name, insurance, etc. It made up for all the horror stories you hear but the
people that were already waiting probably did not think it was so great.
Better to have had the fence on the opposite side of the blade and used a
hold down "block/push stick" to feed the piece.
You just witnessed why many believe that the left tilt saw is better for
these type cuts.
"Brikp" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Question about kickback and technique.
>
> OK - I had a small piece. 3 1/2" X 4 1/2" X 3/4" that I wanted to cut a
> 45deg angle on the 4 1/2" side. Pretty strait forward. I was using Right
> tilt TS with the fence to the right of the blade. Using a push stick to
> cut
> the angle. The piece was already to size and I was just knocking off the
> corner. I encountered severe kickback. The piece shot toward me hit me so
> hard in the gut that it left a 3 1/2" bloody welt. Ouch! A heavy canvas
> apron would have been a good idea I suppose. The best idea is to learn a
> better technique for making this type of cut. Any suggestions? TIA.
>
>
With small pieces, forget the fence and use the miter gauge and a
method to clamp the wood to the miter gauge, OR use something liker a
GRIPPER to support the wood on both sides of the sawblade
Only real injury I ever got with my tablesaw was cutting a small piece
of wood like this, kicked back, and hit one of my fingers, ran up a
$1000+ emergency room bill to get it fixed
John
On Mon, 4 Oct 2004 11:23:06 -0400, "Brikp" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>"George" <george@least> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Yep, best answer is not to cut pieces that small on the table saw where
>> they might bind.
>>
>> Bandsaw, maybe, with a plane to smooth. I believe in that 10" minimum
>> length they mention in my instruction manual.
>>
>>
>> "Brikp" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> > Question about kickback and technique.
>> >
>> > OK - I had a small piece. 3 1/2" X 4 1/2" X 3/4" that I wanted to cut a
>> > 45deg angle on the 4 1/2" side. Pretty strait forward. I was using
>Right
>> > tilt TS with the fence to the right of the blade. Using a push stick to
>> cut
>> > the angle. The piece was already to size and I was just knocking off the
>> > corner. I encountered severe kickback. The piece shot toward me hit me
>so
>> > hard in the gut that it left a 3 1/2" bloody welt. Ouch! A heavy canvas
>> > apron would have been a good idea I suppose. The best idea is to learn a
>> > better technique for making this type of cut. Any suggestions? TIA.
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>Thanks for your reply George. I don't have a band saw. I was just making a
>simple set of breackets to support some curtain hardware. Shouldn't have
>been too involved. Butt joints would have sufficed here and thats where I
>ended up.
>
"Rumpty" wrote in message
> FWIW, this would not have happened if he had used a RAS.
Yeah right, Rumpty ... he'd probably lost a whole damn arm by now. Ya gotta
be a smart, mean pit bull (sorry wrong thread) of a mutha to survive using a
RAS for any length of time.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/04/04
Now don't go getting all pissed ... I was just kidding!
Mike at American Sycamore wrote:
> "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
>> "Rumpty" wrote in message
>> > FWIW, this would not have happened if he had used a RAS.
>>
>> Yeah right, Rumpty ... he'd probably lost a whole damn arm by now. Ya
>> gotta be a smart, mean pit bull (sorry wrong thread) of a mutha to
>> survive using a RAS for any length of time.
>
> amen to that brother...it is only a matter of time that one will get
> hurt ripping on a radial arm saw.......ripping on a radial arm saw is
> 1945 technology and is so far out of date today in safety and just
> plain common sense. If one must rip on a radial arm, please be
> careful and use every safety device known.......
It sounds like you have some stories to tell. Please share.
> Mike from American Sycamore
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
After reading other replies and re-reading your post, I see I
mis-interpreted what you were doing. My suggestions are not complete
accurate because I thought you were cutting a 45 degree angle, as opposed to
mitering and edge.
"Bob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Brikp" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > OK - I had a small piece. 3 1/2" X 4 1/2" X 3/4" that I wanted to cut a
> > 45deg angle on the 4 1/2" side. Pretty strait forward. I was using
Right
> > tilt TS with the fence to the right of the blade. Using a push stick to
> cut
> > the angle. The piece was already to size and I was just knocking off the
> > corner. I encountered severe kickback. The piece shot toward me hit me
so
> > hard in the gut that it left a 3 1/2" bloody welt. Ouch! A heavy canvas
> > apron would have been a good idea I suppose. The best idea is to learn a
> > better technique for making this type of cut. Any suggestions? TIA.
>
> If I were going to design a disaster, I couldn't do a better job than what
> your scenario is. You cannot control a piece that small with a simple
push
> stick.
>
> Some possible safer solutions:
>
> 1. Use a cross cut sled with fixed 45 degree angle block and a hold down
> clamp. I think that would be one of the safest approaches.
>
> 2. You could also do it with hand tools - cut off with a hand saw, then
> finish up with a hand plane using a 45 degree shooting board. See this
link
> http://tinyurl.com/627hs and look at the picture labeled mitre trimming.
>
> 3. Make a quick and dirty mini-sled from a larger board that could be held
> against your miter fence. Make a simple hold down clamp using the
principals
> shown on this taper jig: http://tinyurl.com/5pe2e
>
> Bob
>
>
On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 16:18:21 -0400, "George" <george@least> wrote:
>One of the great truths of our healthcare system is this - you only see your
>own doctor when you're healthy. Can't get an appointment - emergency
>department. We have a couple of "walk-in-clinics" here now where you can
>see a doctor when sick, but without the ED rates. Next level - Trauma
>center - takes more money still.
We have a couple of "Urgent Care Centers" in town. They aren't 24/7,
but they do provide a good level of treatment that is between "The
Doctor can see you next Tuesday at 2:15" and the triage nurse in the
hospital ER. I have been in 3 different ERs with chest pains over the
years - it is truly amazing how fast they move when you say you think
you might be having a heart attack. All 3 ER doctors told me that I
should head straight for the emergency room at the first sign of chest
pain and call 911 if it seemed at all severe. Being overweight and
sedentary puts me right into that high risk group.
Tim Douglass
http://www.DouglassClan.com
"John" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> Only real injury I ever got with my tablesaw was cutting a small piece
> of wood like this, kicked back, and hit one of my fingers, ran up a
> $1000+ emergency room bill to get it fixed
>
The standard rule for contracting services it to get three quotes.
Obviously you neglected to do that and were raked over the proverbial coals.
You may have gotten a better price across town. Waiting for the off hours
may have gotten you a better rate too. Not to mention coupons!
In article <[email protected]>, Rick Cook <[email protected]> wrote:
>Speaking from experience, how fast you get treated in an emergency room is
>largely determined by how much danger the staff believes you are in. When my
>heart acted up five years ago I walked into the emergency room and up to the
>admitting desk.
>
>"What is your problem?" Asked the nurse.
>"Hypochondria I hope!" I replied fervently.
>She took one look at me and they had me back in the room with a BP cuff on.
>Inside of five minutes I was on nitro, oxygen and hooked up to a heart monitor.
>
>About ten days later I left the hospital the proud owner of a brand-new
>quintuple cardiac bypass. I found out sometime later they had told my wife they
>were afraid I wasn't going to make it through that first night.
Quintuple! Wow! Glad you came out of it OK.
My father had an ER visit that began similarly, a few years ago. He came into
the ER with a gray complexion, perspiring profusely, dizzy, and nauseated. He
said that within a minute, they had him on a table, stripped to the waist,
with an EKG attached. And then everybody calmed down when they saw there was
nothing wrong with his heart. He left a few days later with a diagnosis of
inner-ear infection, and prescriptions for potent antibiotics and sedatives.
It was _six_months_ before the doctors cleared him to drive again.
Anybody who thinks that sight is the most important of the senses is
forgetting about balance.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
Get a copy of my NEW AND IMPROVED TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter
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On Mon, 4 Oct 2004 10:51:08 -0400, "Brikp" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Question about kickback and technique.
>
>OK - I had a small piece. 3 1/2" X 4 1/2" X 3/4" that I wanted to cut a
>45deg angle on the 4 1/2" side. Pretty strait forward. I was using Right
>tilt TS with the fence to the right of the blade. Using a push stick to cut
>the angle. The piece was already to size and I was just knocking off the
>corner. I encountered severe kickback. The piece shot toward me hit me so
>hard in the gut that it left a 3 1/2" bloody welt. Ouch! A heavy canvas
>apron would have been a good idea I suppose. The best idea is to learn a
>better technique for making this type of cut. Any suggestions? TIA.
>
In case no one else has mentioned this in reply, you might consider thie
GRR-RIpper.
http://www.rockler.com/ecom7/product_details.cfm?&offerings_id=10477
(Others MAY have better prices.) While I get a bit nervous cutting any
small pieces, I've used it with considered success. (Success w/ wood, BTW;
it did not well grip plastic.) -- Igor
On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 15:03:56 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>, "Brikp" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>Question about kickback and technique.
>>
>>OK - I had a small piece. 3 1/2" X 4 1/2" X 3/4" that I wanted to cut a
>>45deg angle on the 4 1/2" side. Pretty strait forward. I was using Right
>>tilt TS with the fence to the right of the blade. Using a push stick to cut
>>the angle. The piece was already to size and I was just knocking off the
>>corner. I encountered severe kickback. The piece shot toward me hit me so
>>hard in the gut that it left a 3 1/2" bloody welt. Ouch! A heavy canvas
>>apron would have been a good idea I suppose. The best idea is to learn a
>>better technique for making this type of cut. Any suggestions? TIA.
>>
>What were you using to guide the wood, as you made this cut? From your
>description, it sounds like you had nothing to support it. If that's the
>case... that's the reason you had a kickback.
>
>So...
>
>First off, a heavy canvas apron isn't going to make *any* difference.
sure it would have. He'd have had a 3-1/2" welt with a heavy canvas
pattern pressed into it....
> On a
>typical 10" table saw, the tips of the teeth are moving at about 100 mph, and
>that's approximately the speed the wood will be moving too. That's going to
>hurt, even through an apron. So the first thing to remember is to make sure
>you're not standing in the line of fire.
>
>Second, it is imperative to have the wood securely supported, in this case by
>a miter gauge _at_minimum_. Add an auxiliary fence to the face of the miter
>gauge, if necessary, so that the wood is supported all the way up to the
>blade.
really should be a sled.
>
>Third, for cuts on small pieces such as this, it's safer to clamp the
>workpiece to a carrier board or a crosscut sled, so that you're not trying to
>guide such a tiny piece of wood. The longer the guide surface you have
>available, the less likely you'll have a mishap.
In article <[email protected]>,
Brikp <[email protected]> wrote:
>Question about kickback and technique.
>
>OK - I had a small piece. 3 1/2" X 4 1/2" X 3/4" that I wanted to cut a
>45deg angle on the 4 1/2" side. Pretty strait forward. I was using Right
>tilt TS with the fence to the right of the blade. Using a push stick to cut
>the angle. The piece was already to size and I was just knocking off the
>corner. I encountered severe kickback. The piece shot toward me hit me so
>hard in the gut that it left a 3 1/2" bloody welt. Ouch! A heavy canvas
>apron would have been a good idea I suppose. The best idea is to learn a
>better technique for making this type of cut. Any suggestions? TIA.
>
>
Absolutely, put the fence on the LEFT side of the blade for a bevel
cut on a right tilt saw.
--
Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland
[email protected]
In article <[email protected]>, "Brikp" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Question about kickback and technique.
>
>OK - I had a small piece. 3 1/2" X 4 1/2" X 3/4" that I wanted to cut a
>45deg angle on the 4 1/2" side. Pretty strait forward. I was using Right
>tilt TS with the fence to the right of the blade. Using a push stick to cut
>the angle. The piece was already to size and I was just knocking off the
>corner. I encountered severe kickback. The piece shot toward me hit me so
>hard in the gut that it left a 3 1/2" bloody welt. Ouch! A heavy canvas
>apron would have been a good idea I suppose. The best idea is to learn a
>better technique for making this type of cut. Any suggestions? TIA.
>
What were you using to guide the wood, as you made this cut? From your
description, it sounds like you had nothing to support it. If that's the
case... that's the reason you had a kickback.
So...
First off, a heavy canvas apron isn't going to make *any* difference. On a
typical 10" table saw, the tips of the teeth are moving at about 100 mph, and
that's approximately the speed the wood will be moving too. That's going to
hurt, even through an apron. So the first thing to remember is to make sure
you're not standing in the line of fire.
Second, it is imperative to have the wood securely supported, in this case by
a miter gauge _at_minimum_. Add an auxiliary fence to the face of the miter
gauge, if necessary, so that the wood is supported all the way up to the
blade.
Third, for cuts on small pieces such as this, it's safer to clamp the
workpiece to a carrier board or a crosscut sled, so that you're not trying to
guide such a tiny piece of wood. The longer the guide surface you have
available, the less likely you'll have a mishap.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
Get a copy of my NEW AND IMPROVED TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter
by sending email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com
You must use your REAL email address to get a response.