Rockler

On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 12:53:26 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

>On 9/19/2012 10:34 AM, Bill wrote:
>>
>> I thougth I had enough when I saw they had desiged "slots" for your
>> bench for their bench cookies.
>>
>> Now, this morning, I see they have a 3 piece "Glue Applicator Kit"
>> ($14.99).
>>
>> I hope you folks aren't encouraging them! ; )
>>
>> Bill
>>
>
>
>I suppose you are talking slots for fastening the cookies. They will
>walk if you don't fasten them in place.

I tried my new painting pyramids the other day and the project went
skidding off it half a dozen times while the pyramids went skidding
all around the wax paper I put under them. I'm less impressed in them
after use, lemme tell ya. <g> I'll screw 'em to some scrap sheet next
time.


>The 3 piece kit, you sure don't need it but it sure makes life easier if
>you can part with $15, especially if you do a lot of gluing.

Yeah, special heads for glue can be a godsend at times, ensuring good
coverage on both sides of biscuit holes, f'rinstance. I'm as fond of
Rockler's pricing as I am Festool's.

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=11401&site=ROCKLER would be
the kit I'd opt for instead of the 3-pc set, but only when it was on
half price sale with free shipping.

--
The most decisive actions of our life - I mean those that are most
likely to decide the whole course of our future - are, more often
than not, unconsidered.
-- Andre Gide

Bill <[email protected]> writes:
>Leon wrote:

>> WTF does the perceived profit margin have to do with the value of a
>> product if it saves you time? You may want to reconsider whether wood
>> working is a hobby you can afford.
>
>Did I say a high profit margin was a bad thing? In this case, I think
>it's comical. IMHO, Apple is more deserving of the one they have.
>And where the f. do you come accross talking to me like that?
>

Welcome to the wreck, where heaping abuse on posters is de rigueur.

On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 23:04:31 -0400, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:

>Larry Jaques wrote:
>
>> AVOID AT ALL COSTS: 39687/8/9 "pro" brushes. NEE!
>> http://tinyurl.com/9gte6p2 These are the worst brushes I've ever used
>> in my _life_, and I've bought lots of cheap brushes in my time.
>> Run away! Run away! Run away! Run away! Run away! Run away!
>
>LOL -- Does the "hair" fall out???

No, it just goes limp (al dente) with waterborne OR oil-based paints.
Weird!

--
The most decisive actions of our life - I mean those that are most
likely to decide the whole course of our future - are, more often
than not, unconsidered.
-- Andre Gide

On 9/19/2012 3:02 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 12:53:26 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 9/19/2012 10:34 AM, Bill wrote:
>>>
>>> I thougth I had enough when I saw they had desiged "slots" for your
>>> bench for their bench cookies.
>>>
>>> Now, this morning, I see they have a 3 piece "Glue Applicator Kit"
>>> ($14.99).
>>>
>>> I hope you folks aren't encouraging them! ; )
>>>
>>> Bill
>>>
>>
>>
>> I suppose you are talking slots for fastening the cookies. They will
>> walk if you don't fasten them in place.
>
> I tried my new painting pyramids the other day and the project went
> skidding off it half a dozen times while the pyramids went skidding
> all around the wax paper I put under them. I'm less impressed in them
> after use, lemme tell ya. <g> I'll screw 'em to some scrap sheet next
> time.

I have had 10 of them for a few years now. I mostly use them for
holding a fresh varnished piece to keep all sides up and ventilated.


>
>
>> The 3 piece kit, you sure don't need it but it sure makes life easier if
>> you can part with $15, especially if you do a lot of gluing.
>
> Yeah, special heads for glue can be a godsend at times, ensuring good
> coverage on both sides of biscuit holes, f'rinstance. I'm as fond of
> Rockler's pricing as I am Festool's.

Don't go into Woodcraft. :~) Rockler is cheap by comparison.

On 9/20/2012 3:53 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 9/20/12 2:48 PM, Swingman wrote:
>> On 9/20/2012 1:30 PM, Leon wrote:
>>> Swingman does introduce me to his neighbors as his partner that he met
>>> on the internet. ;~O
>>
>> Yabbut, you said you were a French model ... bahn jyour! LOL
>>
>
> I just threw up in my mouth.

You do that a lot ... here's the punch line:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmx4twCK3_I

LOL ...

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 14:01:32 GMT, [email protected] (Scott Lurndal)
>Welcome to the wreck, where heaping abuse on posters is de rigueur.

Har! That's funny. Probably true, but funny anyway.

I haven't laughed that hard in awhile. Thanks I needed that! :)

On 9/24/2012 8:38 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 9/23/2012 6:43 PM, Swingman wrote:
>> On 9/23/2012 4:15 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>
>>> Saaaay, isn't that a house plant on top of an electronic device? One
>>> which gets _watered_? <wink, wink, nudge, nudge>
>>
>> What's it to you, Bubba? It's mine, it's _my_ lucky Chinese bamboo, I
>> water it, no one else is allowed near it, that's where I want the
>> sunnuvabitch, and that's where it farking stays.
>>
>> IOW, mind your own damn business, C_less ... :D
>>
>
>
> I forgot about your ahhumm, antenna stand. Good thing you did not make
> too much fun of my satellite dish platform at my sisters house. ;~)


Hell, it could have been used as hook to pick up the house.

Took a sawzall, a corded impact driver, a sparkplug socket with a long
handled ratchet, two men, and twenty minutes to get it demolished ... we
were afraid the house was going to tip over before we finished.

Still, it was easier than getting that kitchen "cabinet" out, and back
in again, that you built/installed for her twenty years ago. :)

Gave "built to last/belt and suspenders" a new meaning ...

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

<<snippage>>
>
>I tried my new painting pyramids the other day and the project went
>skidding off it half a dozen times while the pyramids went skidding
>all around the wax paper I put under them. I'm less impressed in them
>after use, lemme tell ya. <g> I'll screw 'em to some scrap sheet next
>time.
>
I had the same trouble...so I glued a piece of router mat to one side
of each pyramid...no more sliding around.

Oh...I don't use wax paper...very slippery...I use kraft paper. The
router mat-stuff sticks just fine to that stuff.

YRMV

the OTHER mike

On Sun, 23 Sep 2012 15:08:31 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 9/23/2012 7:58 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
>> Bill <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
>>
>>>
>>> It occurs to me that even at best my tune would not save me any HD
>>> recordings. There seem to be a few choices out there. When in doubt,
>>> go with Hauppauge huh?
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Bill
>>>
>>
>> Before buying a new card, I'd hit the compatibility pages for whatever
>> software you plan to use. My tuner card is supported partially in
>> MythTV, but not totally. The recording part works, but the infrared
>> remote does not. (I also had to seek out and find drivers for it.)
>>
>> The old tuner card was completely supported, and the installation just
>> found the card and worked.
>>
>> FWIW, I used Hauppauge's WinTV app with Windows XP for a year or so when
>> I was getting in to this. It might be nice if you had one computer to
>> use, but for a dedicated DVR there's better software out there. GB-PVR
>> comes to mind on Windows and MythTV on Linux. (Last I knew, MythTV had
>> a Windows frontend, but it didn't do recording. Once set up, however,
>> you don't have to mess with the OS.)
>>
>>>
>>> And I've got a 1 TB external HDD I
>>>> used for backup, so I'm almost there. Instead of moving things around
>>>> I maybe should just spring for a second antenna (see my
>>>> related-comments below).
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>> Considering what your antenna cost, it's probably cheaper to get a
>> second one. The splitter and cable will easily total $10.
>
>Heres my Hauppauge WinTV setup I use when holding open houses on
>Sunday's in new construction that has no internet or TV.
>
>The little radio shack antenna is active and really works well, although
>I'm not all that far from most of local OTA broadcasts:
>
>https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopMiscellaneous#5791463145054408706
>
>
>The OTA HD viewed content on that little laptop, with none of the
>compression cable providers add, is much soooombetter than you get on cable.

Pretty cool.

Saaaay, isn't that a house plant on top of an electronic device? One
which gets _watered_? <wink, wink, nudge, nudge>

--
Never trouble another for what you can do for yourself.
-- Thomas Jefferson

On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 17:27:39 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 9/19/2012 10:34 AM, Bill wrote:
>>
>> I thougth I had enough when I saw they had desiged "slots" for your
>> bench for their bench cookies.
>>
>> Now, this morning, I see they have a 3 piece "Glue Applicator Kit"
>> ($14.99).
>>
>> I hope you folks aren't encouraging them! ; )
>
>Not impressed with the kit, but don't knock that sillycone glue brush
>until you try it.

I love sillycone in the kitchen. The new spatulas are wunnerful.


>The spade end is great for putting glue in mortises, and the brush end
>spreads nicely and cleans up after itself ...

PE is like that, too. It's nice!

--
The most decisive actions of our life - I mean those that are most
likely to decide the whole course of our future - are, more often
than not, unconsidered.
-- Andre Gide

On 9/23/2012 4:15 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:

> Saaaay, isn't that a house plant on top of an electronic device? One
> which gets _watered_? <wink, wink, nudge, nudge>

What's it to you, Bubba? It's mine, it's _my_ lucky Chinese bamboo, I
water it, no one else is allowed near it, that's where I want the
sunnuvabitch, and that's where it farking stays.

IOW, mind your own damn business, C_less ... :D

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

Bill <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:

> Bill wrote:
> I'm giving up cable-tv this week.
>
>
> I installed the new Samsung USB LinkStick (wireless device) ($31) on
> my Samsung TV, and immediately found a CNBC App for real-time business
> news, a YouTube App, and even a ESPN App (I'm not sure how that one
> works yet), among others (like NetFlix and Hulu). By the way,
> Samsung's web site indicated my TV required their (old model) $99
> model linkstick, but it didn't. I apologize for all of the
> parenthesis.
>
> I think I'd encourage any friend to consider
> cutting the cable cord (especially if they could get decent
> over-the-air reception), as I would want them to encourage me to do
> so. It feels a little "liberating", but old habits aren't broken
> without a little resistance.
>
> Evidently DVRs are only available by Tivo--and they think a lot of
> them, wanting $400-500 per each. That seems like alot for what is
> basically a "VCR"...

You can build your own DVR for maybe half that if you've got a
reasonably modern system. A decent tuner card with hardware encoder
($100), a big hard disk ($100), and DVR software (free) and you're good
to go.

> I've already learned plenty about antennas (at least 6-8 hours worth).
> Some of you folks surely know a great deal more than I do about them.
> Suffice to say that a lot of companies seem to be selling "$16 glue
> bottles" for indoor antennas! And "No", I've never tried a $16 glue
> bootle... ; ) Recall the $99 LinkStick--who can you trust??? Your
> fellow reviewers, that's who!!! : )
>
> Cheers,
> Bill

My antenna cost only time. We're only about 10 miles from the
transmitters (at most), so a folded dipole made out of 300 ohm cable
works quite well. I'd like to put up a better antenna for those times
when reception is spotty, but considering there's only 2 channels I
actually watch it's not a high priority.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

Bill <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:

>
> It occurs to me that even at best my tune would not save me any HD
> recordings. There seem to be a few choices out there. When in doubt,
> go with Hauppauge huh?
>
> Cheers,
> Bill
>

Before buying a new card, I'd hit the compatibility pages for whatever
software you plan to use. My tuner card is supported partially in
MythTV, but not totally. The recording part works, but the infrared
remote does not. (I also had to seek out and find drivers for it.)

The old tuner card was completely supported, and the installation just
found the card and worked.

FWIW, I used Hauppauge's WinTV app with Windows XP for a year or so when
I was getting in to this. It might be nice if you had one computer to
use, but for a dedicated DVR there's better software out there. GB-PVR
comes to mind on Windows and MythTV on Linux. (Last I knew, MythTV had
a Windows frontend, but it didn't do recording. Once set up, however,
you don't have to mess with the OS.)

>
> And I've got a 1 TB external HDD I
>> used for backup, so I'm almost there. Instead of moving things around
>> I maybe should just spring for a second antenna (see my
>> related-comments below).
>>
>>

Considering what your antenna cost, it's probably cheaper to get a
second one. The splitter and cable will easily total $10.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

Bill <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:

> Puckdropper wrote:
>
>> FWIW, I used Hauppauge's WinTV app with Windows XP for a year or so
>> when I was getting in to this. It might be nice if you had one
>> computer to use, but for a dedicated DVR there's better software out
>> there. GB-PVR comes to mind on Windows and MythTV on Linux. (Last I
>> knew, MythTV had a Windows frontend, but it didn't do recording.
>> Once set up, however, you don't have to mess with the OS.)
> <snip>
>> Puckdropper
>>
>
> Does that imply you have a Hauppauge (PCI) tuner?
>
> I will set it up. However, my wife has the most interest in
> programming shows, so a friendly interface is required!
>
> It sounds like sort of an interesting project. Thus, far I have
> avoided any sort of file sharing over our (local) network, but there
> are some interesting possibilities here.
>
> Thank you for your encouragement! : )
>
> Cheers,
> Bill

I have two hauppauge tuners. The first one stopped working properly on
one input and was replaced with another with more features. The first
one is PCI, while the second is PCIe. They are not compatible!

You may find the biggest hassle in all this is getting program guide
data for scheduling. Not all digital TV stations send out their guide
data properly or very far in advance.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

Bill <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:


> I haven't checked the situation recently, but I think I got a good
> deal on my PCIe external HDD because of the lack of popularity of PCIe
> at the time. I think it's much faster than USB 2.0 as well, more akin
> to USB 3.0, but don't quote me on that. I can just say that it does
> what it's supposed to do quite well. What are you sentiments about
> PCIe?
>
> Cheers,
> Bill
>

PCIe's just the next generation of expansion slot. I usually prefer
internal cards to external devices because it makes it harder to lose
the device or for it to become distached.

For TV tuner use, the tuner matters more than the interface. If the
tuner is doing the hard work itself, you only need to send the finished
data to the system.

A PCIe external hard drive doesn't make sense. Are you thinking of
eSATA? (Firewire and USB are common interfaces as well.)

Puckdroppre
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

Bill <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

>
> Puck,
>
> Yes, it is surely eSATA. Sorry about the confusion. Are eSATA devices
> very popular now with the presence of USB 3.0? My motherboard (made
> by GIGA-BYTE) has USB 3.0 too, but I haven't used it. Strangely, its
> USB 3.0 shares a bus with its graphics card, so my graphics speed is
> supposed to be cut in half if I use USB 3.0. Not having used it, I
> don't know whether that means all the time, or only when the USB port
> is "working". I would guess the former.
>
> Cheers,
> Bill
>

I'm not sure about eSATA devices and USB 3.0. I really haven't had a
need for external drives since I set up a NAS box. The NAS box has
eSATA ports, but I've never used them.

eSATA might turn out to be kinda like Firewire. The standard and
interface has been out for years, but not a lot of devices use it.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

"G. Ross" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Wish I still had my first hard drive just to show the kids. It was
> semi-shoebox size and held a whopping 20 MEGAbytes.
>

It wasn't a Seagate ST225 by any chance, was it? It was a really common
drive that fit your description.

I've got an IBM XT with a full-height hard drive. I don't remember the
capacity, but it wasn't much. Somewhere less than 20MB, I believe. (I've
also got a couple of the ST225s.)

Last year, we used punch cards in a chemistry class... Ok, we wrote on
them like they were note cards because the instructors claimed they were
easier to handle than 1/2 sheets of paper for the short quizzes they gave
us.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

"Puckdropper" wrote:

> I've got an IBM XT with a full-height hard drive. I don't remember
> the
> capacity, but it wasn't much. Somewhere less than 20MB, I believe.
> (I've
> also got a couple of the ST225s.)

-------------------------------------------------------
My first desktop was an XT clone with a 30 MB hard drive and an amber
display.

Had an internal Fax card and a 56K modem.

Ran my business well into the mid '90's before the HD crapped out.

Lew

Bill <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:

>
> How about a USB 2.0 Device: Hauppauges "WinTV HVR-950 hybrid TV stick"
> (NTSC/ATSC HD TV reciever). This is handy since my wife already has
> one (I've got her looking for the software)! It being small, I expect
> it is leaving lots of processing to the host CPU which otherwise might
> be done by a tuner on a PCI card. True? It reminds me of the
> "hardware (phone) modem versus virtual modem" debate that the Linux
> people carried on for years!
>
> Cheers,
> Bill

It looks like it uses a software-based encoder. If it works for you,
then no problem. You should be able to see how hard your CPU has to
work in Task Manager.

Hardware modems are still best. ;-)

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

Bill <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:

>>
>> It looks like it uses a software-based encoder. If it works for you,
>> then no problem. You should be able to see how hard your CPU has to
>> work in Task Manager.
>>
>> Hardware modems are still best. ;-)
>
> Following that point of view cost me several hundred dollars over the
> years at $79 a crack. A crack of lightning that is. I've still got my
> last one; I would be willing to let you have it for $39.99. Do they
> still sell them? : ) Maybe it's a "collectable"? : )
>

They do still sell them... priced around the $50-70 mark. I decided a
software modem would be good enough, especially considering the dual-core
nature of the machine I put it in. (Plus, it was free.)

Did you have a surge supressor on your line?

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

On 9/23/2012 6:43 PM, Swingman wrote:
> On 9/23/2012 4:15 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>
>> Saaaay, isn't that a house plant on top of an electronic device? One
>> which gets _watered_? <wink, wink, nudge, nudge>
>
> What's it to you, Bubba? It's mine, it's _my_ lucky Chinese bamboo, I
> water it, no one else is allowed near it, that's where I want the
> sunnuvabitch, and that's where it farking stays.
>
> IOW, mind your own damn business, C_less ... :D
>


I forgot about your ahhumm, antenna stand. Good thing you did not make
too much fun of my satellite dish platform at my sisters house. ;~)

On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 22:29:43 -0400, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:

>Markem wrote:
>> On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 20:51:36 -0400, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>> Then you brought out the F word, which we don't use in my house.
>>
>> Then perhaps Usenet is not the medium you should be using.
>>
>
>I like to think it works both ways. I brought some of me and my house
>onto the Usenet, and vice-versa. Time goes by too fast to put up lots of
>walls.

Take your pretentious ass somewhere else I am not in the mood for some
crap from you.

On 9/19/2012 6:49 PM, Bill wrote:
> Leon wrote:

>>> too small for most of my purposes anyway. The markup on those must be
>>> outstanding...same as the bench cookies. Next thing you know, Harbor
>>> Freight and Rockler may join forces.
>>
>> WTF does the perceived profit margin have to do with the value of a
>> product if it saves you time? You may want to reconsider whether wood
>> working is a hobby you can afford.
>
> Did I say a high profit margin was a bad thing?

Well, you brought it up, and you certainly brought it up in a manner
that made it seem so.

> In this case, I think
> it's comical. IMHO, Apple is more deserving of the one they have.
> And where the f. do you come accross talking to me like that?

Hopefully, with a good deal more woodworking experience under your belt,
you'll better appreciate the fact that the cost to benefit ratio of many
woodworking implements isn't always apparent to a novice.

ITMT, if it gets too hot in the kitchen, might want to reconsider firing
up the stove in the first place ... :)

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On 9/23/2012 7:58 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
> Bill <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
>
>>
>> It occurs to me that even at best my tune would not save me any HD
>> recordings. There seem to be a few choices out there. When in doubt,
>> go with Hauppauge huh?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Bill
>>
>
> Before buying a new card, I'd hit the compatibility pages for whatever
> software you plan to use. My tuner card is supported partially in
> MythTV, but not totally. The recording part works, but the infrared
> remote does not. (I also had to seek out and find drivers for it.)
>
> The old tuner card was completely supported, and the installation just
> found the card and worked.
>
> FWIW, I used Hauppauge's WinTV app with Windows XP for a year or so when
> I was getting in to this. It might be nice if you had one computer to
> use, but for a dedicated DVR there's better software out there. GB-PVR
> comes to mind on Windows and MythTV on Linux. (Last I knew, MythTV had
> a Windows frontend, but it didn't do recording. Once set up, however,
> you don't have to mess with the OS.)
>
>>
>> And I've got a 1 TB external HDD I
>>> used for backup, so I'm almost there. Instead of moving things around
>>> I maybe should just spring for a second antenna (see my
>>> related-comments below).
>>>
>>>
>
> Considering what your antenna cost, it's probably cheaper to get a
> second one. The splitter and cable will easily total $10.

Heres my Hauppauge WinTV setup I use when holding open houses on
Sunday's in new construction that has no internet or TV.

The little radio shack antenna is active and really works well, although
I'm not all that far from most of local OTA broadcasts:

https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopMiscellaneous#5791463145054408706


The OTA HD viewed content on that little laptop, with none of the
compression cable providers add, is much soooombetter than you get on cable.

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

Bill <[email protected]> writes:
>On 9/24/2012 12:14 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
>
>> A PCIe external hard drive doesn't make sense. Are you thinking of
>> eSATA? (Firewire and USB are common interfaces as well.)
>
>Puck,
>
>Yes, it is surely eSATA. Sorry about the confusion. Are eSATA devices
>very popular now with the presence of USB 3.0?

For non-consumer usage, eSATA is preferred. Will run at full 6Gbit/sec
with SATA III ports. (SATA I - 1.5Gbits/sec, SATA II = 3.0Gbits/sec).

As a consumer, I'd prefer eSATA because the consumer SATA <-> USB
interface adapters are quite often junk (the drive itself is still
SATA even when connected via USB).

USB 3.0 is spec'ed to do 5.0Gbits/sec, but there've been reports of
cheap USB 3 hardware reverting to 0.5Gbits/sec (particularly when using
cheap cables, but often for other reasons).


> My motherboard (made by
>GIGA-BYTE) has USB 3.0 too, but I haven't used it. Strangely, its USB
>3.0 shares a bus with its graphics card,

Not a bus, per se, but rather bandwidth. The port upstream (to/from memory) from the
root complex handling the USB 3 and Graphics has bandwidth which is
less than the combined required bandwidth of the super-speed (5.0Gb/s)
USB and the Graphics. Common when using the DMI bus from the processor
to a chipset providing legacy devices (USB, integrated graphics, SATA,
et. al.) such as the ICH (Nahalem) or PCH (Sandybridge).


> so my graphics speed is
>supposed to be cut in half if I use USB 3.0. Not having used it, I don't
>know whether that means all the time, or only when the USB port is
>"working". I would guess the former.

It's almost certainly the latter.

scott

On 9/20/2012 1:30 PM, Leon wrote:
> Swingman does introduce me to his neighbors as his partner that he met
> on the internet. ;~O

Yabbut, you said you were a French model ... bahn jyour! LOL

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On 9/19/2012 7:51 PM, Bill wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>> On 9/19/2012 7:17 PM, Bill wrote:
>
>>> I majored in economics (among other things). I have even worked in sales
>>> and run my own (small) businesses. I understand the dynamics of a
>>> transaction probably as well as anyone here.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> And yet I had to explain this to you....
>
> No, you didn't. That was my point. You made an inference because I wrote
> two sentences next to each other that they were directly-related.
> Then you brought out the F word, which we don't use in my house.


Bill you naturally assumed a particular F-word, it could have been any
F-Word but that is where you went with it. Any way I apologise for
getting up in your face but it is some what offensive to those of us
that do spend money on items that you think are comically priced.

And yeah for an economics major you seemed to have forgotten a lot.
What you find comical about retail pricing is pretty much 101 in most
any type business degree.

Swingman wrote:
> On 9/23/2012 7:58 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
>> Bill <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
>>
>>>
>>> It occurs to me that even at best my tune would not save me any HD
>>> recordings. There seem to be a few choices out there. When in doubt,
>>> go with Hauppauge huh?
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Bill
>>>
>>
>> Before buying a new card, I'd hit the compatibility pages for whatever
>> software you plan to use. My tuner card is supported partially in
>> MythTV, but not totally. The recording part works, but the infrared
>> remote does not. (I also had to seek out and find drivers for it.)
>>
>> The old tuner card was completely supported, and the installation just
>> found the card and worked.
>>
>> FWIW, I used Hauppauge's WinTV app with Windows XP for a year or so when
>> I was getting in to this. It might be nice if you had one computer to
>> use, but for a dedicated DVR there's better software out there. GB-PVR
>> comes to mind on Windows and MythTV on Linux. (Last I knew, MythTV had
>> a Windows frontend, but it didn't do recording. Once set up, however,
>> you don't have to mess with the OS.)
>>
>>>
>>> And I've got a 1 TB external HDD I
>>>> used for backup, so I'm almost there. Instead of moving things around
>>>> I maybe should just spring for a second antenna (see my
>>>> related-comments below).
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>> Considering what your antenna cost, it's probably cheaper to get a
>> second one. The splitter and cable will easily total $10.
>
> Heres my Hauppauge WinTV setup I use when holding open houses on
> Sunday's in new construction that has no internet or TV.
>
> The little radio shack antenna is active and really works well, although
> I'm not all that far from most of local OTA broadcasts:
>
> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopMiscellaneous#5791463145054408706
>
>
> The OTA HD viewed content on that little laptop, with none of the
> compression cable providers add, is much soooombetter than you get on cable.
>
What brand of computer? Looks like my old Averatec I've been nursing
along for years.

--
G.W. Ross

Preserve nature... pickle a squirrel.

Bill wrote:
> Scott Lurndal wrote:
>
>> The PCI local bus is a standard parallel bus used to connected peripheral
>> adapter cards to the processor complex, via one or more PCI bridges. The
>> PCI bus is pretty much obsolete at this point, having been replaced in
>> most systems by the serial, point-to-point PCI Express bus (aka PCIe).
>>
>> A PCIe root complex provides one or more SERDES lanes (usually in groups of
>> four, 8 or 16) which use differential signalling to support fast serial
>> transfers on each lane; the lanes can be grouped such that 1, 4, 8 or 16
>> lanes are connected to a PCIe endpoint (e.g. SATA adapter, NIC, Infiniband,
>> Graphics card). The number of lanes (and PCIe generation) govern the bandwidth
>> available between the adapter card and the memory subsystem.
>>
>> Most new systems no longer have PCI peripheral slots (but may, internally within
>> the chipset, use PCI-PCI bridges for legacy peripherals); but rather include
>> one or more X1, X4, X8 or X16 PCIexpress slots.
>>
>> I suspect that your "PCIe external HDD" is really eSATA (external SATA) connected
>> to a SATA controller which interfaces via a PCIe Root Complex to the processor/memory
>> subsystem. There is a new standard coming for SSD (solid-state disk) access via
>> PCIe (Called NVM Express/NVMe), but it won't handle ATA drives (it's designed for
>> plugin PCIe cards with large quantities of NAND/NOR flash chips on board).
>>
>> scott
>
>
> I can see you really know your stuff! One just can't have enough
> communication protocals! ; )
>
> Seeing the tiny little 32-GB micro-SD chips on sale for $30 or so
> (which plug into a phone, for instance), one has to accept that some
> things have changed! -- LOL. ; )
>
> Cheers,
> Bill
>
>
Wish I still had my first hard drive just to show the kids. It was
semi-shoebox size and held a whopping 20 MEGAbytes.

--
G.W. Ross

Preserve nature... pickle a squirrel.

On 9/24/2012 1:58 PM, G. Ross wrote:
> What brand of computer? Looks like my old Averatec I've been nursing
> along for years.

A Dell XPS M1210 ... built like a tank about six years ago, it is one of
the most trouble free boxes I've ever owned. Dell does not make them
like this any more.

Did have the mother board replaced by Dell a couple of years back, but
that is the only problem its ever had.

And, it's been running ... badaboommm .... <wait for it> ...... Vista!
<gasp> for all that time without a hiccup. :)

Go figure ...

(I was sysadmin for 12 years for upwards of twenty geographically
separated dns, nntp, http, and mail servers for a number of years, as
well as moonlighting setting up and administering networking (all NT
based) for a number of small companies during that time, so yes ... I do
know/appreciate the difference) :~>

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On 9/19/2012 8:13 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 9/19/12 7:48 PM, Leon wrote:
>> On 9/19/2012 7:30 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>> On 9/19/12 7:19 PM, Leon wrote:
>>>> On 9/19/2012 7:09 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>>
>>>> More than likely they are making a few thousand percent mark up.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Good for them. What's your point?
>>>
>>>
>>>> I was talking with the owner of a WW store near me a few years ago, he
>>>> had started stocking Rockler merchandise in his store. The pair of
>>>> Blue
>>>> clamps used to hold a sacrificial fence onto a TS rip fence sold for
>>>> about $15, 5 or 6 years ago. He me told after closing his business 3
>>>> years ago that he was paying about 15~20 cents for the pair.
>>>>
>>>
>>> So what? Great. They are worth what he's selling them for or he wouldn't
>>> be selling them. You think it's too much, go to China and get them made
>>> for yourself.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> I was just backing up buddy! LOL
>
> Crap... we're gonna have to put you in the next beer summit! :-)


LOL. Speaking of which ...

You seem to have the skill set necessary to put it together. WTF are you
waiting for??

Just kidding, I would love to do that again, and participate in a
fiduciary way, or otherwise, particularly if we can get Rob and Han, and
C_less this time, and anyone else here who wants to participate.

For you Luddites, this is Google Hangout territory, Honk if you ken ...

Mike, is there a limit on a Hangout?

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On 9/19/2012 7:11 PM, Bill wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>> On 9/19/2012 4:44 PM, Bill wrote:
>
>> WTF does the perceived profit margin have to do with the value of a
>> product if it saves you time? You may want to reconsider whether wood
>> working is a hobby you can afford.
>>
>
> I don't drink, smoke, wear fancy clothes, chase women, drive or buy
> fancy cars, go to restaurants (not by choice), or own any green tools.
> And I don't have any children (not bragging, by any means), I don't have
> a dime of debt and I haven't paid any interest to anyone in 25 years.
>
> Being value-concious and being able to afford things are two entirely
> separate matters, sir. I'm giving up cable-tv this week. Do you have
> the balls to do that?
>
> Bill
>


Well my wife and I sent our son through college and masters degree
school. He graduated in the Spring of 2010. LOL. We have been debt
free since 1997. I was 42 at the time and retired. We pay cash for
everything, including the house we bought 20 months ago, unless the
interest that is offered is zero percent interest. I am not giving up
Uverse and choose not to. BTY our son owns his home and will have it
paid for by the end of next year if all goes as planned. He bought the
house almost 2 years ago. Not bad for a 25 year old.

I did not study economics in college.

On 9/19/2012 10:34 AM, Bill wrote:
>
> I thougth I had enough when I saw they had desiged "slots" for your
> bench for their bench cookies.
>
> Now, this morning, I see they have a 3 piece "Glue Applicator Kit"
> ($14.99).
>
> I hope you folks aren't encouraging them! ; )

Not impressed with the kit, but don't knock that sillycone glue brush
until you try it.

The spade end is great for putting glue in mortises, and the brush end
spreads nicely and cleans up after itself ...

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On 9/19/2012 7:30 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 9/19/12 7:19 PM, Leon wrote:
>> On 9/19/2012 7:09 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>
>> More than likely they are making a few thousand percent mark up.
>>
>
> Good for them. What's your point?
>
>
>> I was talking with the owner of a WW store near me a few years ago, he
>> had started stocking Rockler merchandise in his store. The pair of Blue
>> clamps used to hold a sacrificial fence onto a TS rip fence sold for
>> about $15, 5 or 6 years ago. He me told after closing his business 3
>> years ago that he was paying about 15~20 cents for the pair.
>>
>
> So what? Great. They are worth what he's selling them for or he wouldn't
> be selling them. You think it's too much, go to China and get them made
> for yourself.


Could he have possibly been agreeing with, and reinforcing, exactly what
you said?

Have another beer, Mike. LOL

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On 9/19/2012 8:55 PM, Bill wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>> On 9/19/2012 7:51 PM, Bill wrote:
>>> Leon wrote:
>>>> On 9/19/2012 7:17 PM, Bill wrote:
>
>> Bill you naturally assumed a particular F-word,
>
> Well, WTH does WTF mean???
>
> it could have been any
>> F-Word but that is where you went with it. Any way I apologise for
>> getting up in your face but it is some what offensive to those of us
>> that do spend money on items that you think are comically priced.
>
> Following your logic/economics, your decison of whether to buy something
> or not should have nothing to do with My perceived value of it (or
> whether I find its pricing humorous or not!) :)
>
> You could laugh out loud about what I have been spending on wood carving
> gouges, but at least they are made out of good steel! ; )

Probably not, I own Festool tools. ;~)

>
>>
>> And yeah for an economics major you seemed to have forgotten a lot. What
>> you find comical about retail pricing is pretty much 101 in most any
>> type business degree.
>
> Humor is all in the eye of the beholder. I laugh when the price of gas
> shoots up! ;)
>

I don't laugh but it most often makes my portfolio look better. ;~)

On 9/19/2012 8:24 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 9/19/12 8:18 PM, Leon wrote:
>> On 9/19/2012 8:13 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>> On 9/19/12 7:48 PM, Leon wrote:
>>>> On 9/19/2012 7:30 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>>> On 9/19/12 7:19 PM, Leon wrote:
>>>>>> On 9/19/2012 7:09 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> More than likely they are making a few thousand percent mark up.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Good for them. What's your point?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I was talking with the owner of a WW store near me a few years
>>>>>> ago, he
>>>>>> had started stocking Rockler merchandise in his store. The pair of
>>>>>> Blue
>>>>>> clamps used to hold a sacrificial fence onto a TS rip fence sold for
>>>>>> about $15, 5 or 6 years ago. He me told after closing his business 3
>>>>>> years ago that he was paying about 15~20 cents for the pair.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> So what? Great. They are worth what he's selling them for or he
>>>>> wouldn't
>>>>> be selling them. You think it's too much, go to China and get them
>>>>> made
>>>>> for yourself.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I was just backing up buddy! LOL
>>>
>>> Crap... we're gonna have to put you in the next beer summit! :-)
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> I'd love to do that but I really need to go to Swingmans house when that
>> happens. LOL I need a more personal experience. ;~)
>
>
> What you guys do with each other in the privacy of his bedroom, um I
> mean house, is your business... I don't judge. :-p

Swingman does introduce me to his neighbors as his partner that he met
on the internet. ;~O

Bill <[email protected]> writes:
>On 9/23/2012 5:00 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
>> Bill <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
>
>> I have two hauppauge tuners. The first one stopped working properly on
>> one input and was replaced with another with more features. The first
>> one is PCI, while the second is PCIe. They are not compatible!
>
>I haven't checked the situation recently, but I think I got a good deal
>on my PCIe external HDD because of the lack of popularity of PCIe at the
>time. I think it's much faster than USB 2.0 as well, more akin to USB
>3.0, but don't quote me on that. I can just say that it does what it's
>supposed to do quite well. What are you sentiments about PCIe?
>

The PCI local bus is a standard parallel bus used to connected peripheral
adapter cards to the processor complex, via one or more PCI bridges. The
PCI bus is pretty much obsolete at this point, having been replaced in
most systems by the serial, point-to-point PCI Express bus (aka PCIe).

A PCIe root complex provides one or more SERDES lanes (usually in groups of
four, 8 or 16) which use differential signalling to support fast serial
transfers on each lane; the lanes can be grouped such that 1, 4, 8 or 16
lanes are connected to a PCIe endpoint (e.g. SATA adapter, NIC, Infiniband,
Graphics card). The number of lanes (and PCIe generation) govern the bandwidth
available between the adapter card and the memory subsystem.

Most new systems no longer have PCI peripheral slots (but may, internally within
the chipset, use PCI-PCI bridges for legacy peripherals); but rather include
one or more X1, X4, X8 or X16 PCIexpress slots.

I suspect that your "PCIe external HDD" is really eSATA (external SATA) connected
to a SATA controller which interfaces via a PCIe Root Complex to the processor/memory
subsystem. There is a new standard coming for SSD (solid-state disk) access via
PCIe (Called NVM Express/NVMe), but it won't handle ATA drives (it's designed for
plugin PCIe cards with large quantities of NAND/NOR flash chips on board).

scott

On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 13:30:21 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

>On 9/19/2012 8:24 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 9/19/12 8:18 PM, Leon wrote:
>>> On 9/19/2012 8:13 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>> On 9/19/12 7:48 PM, Leon wrote:
>>>>> On 9/19/2012 7:30 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>>>> On 9/19/12 7:19 PM, Leon wrote:
>>>>>>> On 9/19/2012 7:09 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> More than likely they are making a few thousand percent mark up.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Good for them. What's your point?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I was talking with the owner of a WW store near me a few years
>>>>>>> ago, he
>>>>>>> had started stocking Rockler merchandise in his store. The pair of
>>>>>>> Blue
>>>>>>> clamps used to hold a sacrificial fence onto a TS rip fence sold for
>>>>>>> about $15, 5 or 6 years ago. He me told after closing his business 3
>>>>>>> years ago that he was paying about 15~20 cents for the pair.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So what? Great. They are worth what he's selling them for or he
>>>>>> wouldn't
>>>>>> be selling them. You think it's too much, go to China and get them
>>>>>> made
>>>>>> for yourself.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I was just backing up buddy! LOL
>>>>
>>>> Crap... we're gonna have to put you in the next beer summit! :-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'd love to do that but I really need to go to Swingmans house when that
>>> happens. LOL I need a more personal experience. ;~)
>>
>>
>> What you guys do with each other in the privacy of his bedroom, um I
>> mean house, is your business... I don't judge. :-p
>
>Swingman does introduce me to his neighbors as his partner that he met
>on the internet. ;~O

You two are finally out of the closet, eh? <wink>

--
I would be the most content if my children grew up to be the kind of people
who think decorating consists mostly of building enough bookshelves.
-- Anna Quindlen

On 9/19/2012 6:49 PM, Bill wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>> On 9/19/2012 4:44 PM, Bill wrote:
>>> -MIKE- wrote:
>>>> On 9/19/12 10:34 AM, Bill wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I thougth I had enough when I saw they had desiged "slots" for your
>>>>> bench for their bench cookies.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now, this morning, I see they have a 3 piece "Glue Applicator Kit"
>>>>> ($14.99).
>>>>>
>>>>> I hope you folks aren't encouraging them! ; )
>>>>>
>>>>> Bill
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Have you used them? They are pretty cool. I suppose you could try to
>>>> find some silicone material and make your own. Good luck with that. :-)
>>>>
>>>> The first time you use one of those spreaders and peel all the glue off
>>>> with one yank, it's worth the price of admission right then and
>>>> there. I
>>>> suppose if you'd rather use scraps of wood to spread your glue or foam
>>>> brushes, you'll be happy. Those foam brushes start to add up and I
>>>> never
>>>> seem to have a clean one handy. Good luck cleaning the glue off of
>>>> those. :-) To each his own.
>>>>
>>>> Besides, in a couple months they'll be $9.99 with free shipping.
>>>
>>> Besides being cheap, foam brushes come in multiple sizes.
>>>
>>> My last two times through Rockler's cashier, I was offered a glue brush.
>>> The first time I asked hesitantly, "are they free?" and it was explained
>>> that they were $4.99 (IIRC). I passed. I later realized that they were
>>> too small for most of my purposes anyway. The markup on those must be
>>> outstanding...same as the bench cookies. Next thing you know, Harbor
>>> Freight and Rockler may join forces.
>>
>> WTF does the perceived profit margin have to do with the value of a
>> product if it saves you time? You may want to reconsider whether wood
>> working is a hobby you can afford.
>
> Did I say a high profit margin was a bad thing? In this case, I think
> it's comical. IMHO, Apple is more deserving of the one they have.
> And where the f. do you come accross talking to me like that?

Sorry Bill, but then you mentioned the $5 price and passed and figured
the profit must be outstanding.....hopefully you are not just now
realizing that the less expensive the product the greater the profit
margin. I have run businesses since I was 21 years old and am
currently self employeed/retired. The perceived/comical mark up is a
fact of life, and that is absolutely not a very recent development.
Have you ever purchased valve stems with a set of tires. I used to sell
them for an exorbitant price of $1 each in the mid to late 70's. I paid
about 3 cents each for them. If inexpensive products did not have a
high mark up they would not be worth stocking and taking up room on the
shelf. How much would pay for that item if you had to have it shipped?
Ever wonder what the cost of a caned soft drink costs the retailer? How
about that $1.50 Coke at McDonald's, I can assure you that if there was
not the cost of the paper cup the drink would be almost all profit and
the reason free refills are offered.

On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 20:28:33 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 9/19/2012 8:13 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 9/19/12 7:48 PM, Leon wrote:
>>> On 9/19/2012 7:30 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>> On 9/19/12 7:19 PM, Leon wrote:
>>>>> On 9/19/2012 7:09 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> More than likely they are making a few thousand percent mark up.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Good for them. What's your point?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I was talking with the owner of a WW store near me a few years ago, he
>>>>> had started stocking Rockler merchandise in his store. The pair of
>>>>> Blue
>>>>> clamps used to hold a sacrificial fence onto a TS rip fence sold for
>>>>> about $15, 5 or 6 years ago. He me told after closing his business 3
>>>>> years ago that he was paying about 15~20 cents for the pair.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So what? Great. They are worth what he's selling them for or he wouldn't
>>>> be selling them. You think it's too much, go to China and get them made
>>>> for yourself.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I was just backing up buddy! LOL
>>
>> Crap... we're gonna have to put you in the next beer summit! :-)
>
>
>LOL. Speaking of which ...
>
>You seem to have the skill set necessary to put it together. WTF are you
>waiting for??
>
>Just kidding, I would love to do that again, and participate in a
>fiduciary way, or otherwise, particularly if we can get Rob and Han, and
>C_less this time, and anyone else here who wants to participate.

Whassa beer summit? And why would an ex-drunk like me want to
participate?


>For you Luddites, this is Google Hangout territory, Honk if you ken ...

<knock, knock> Whassat?


>Mike, is there a limit on a Hangout?

On a hangover, the limit is one per person per day. (Any more and
you're either still drunk or doing something very, very wrong.)

--
The most decisive actions of our life - I mean those that are most
likely to decide the whole course of our future - are, more often
than not, unconsidered.
-- Andre Gide

On 9/19/2012 7:09 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 9/19/12 5:57 PM, Leon wrote:
>> On 9/19/2012 4:44 PM, Bill wrote:
>>> Besides being cheap, foam brushes come in multiple sizes.
>>>
>>> My last two times through Rockler's cashier, I was offered a glue brush.
>>> The first time I asked hesitantly, "are they free?" and it was explained
>>> that they were $4.99 (IIRC). I passed. I later realized that they were
>>> too small for most of my purposes anyway. The markup on those must be
>>> outstanding...same as the bench cookies. Next thing you know, Harbor
>>> Freight and Rockler may join forces.
>>
>> WTF does the perceived profit margin have to do with the value of a
>> product if it saves you time? You may want to reconsider whether wood
>> working is a hobby you can afford.
>>
>
> Exactly. Always cracks me up when people say that. Something is worth
> what someone will pay for it, period. I hope they are making several
> hundred percent on them. That way they stay in business and will still
> be available when I need to buy something.
>
> Evil bastards, trying to make a profit. ;-)

More than likely they are making a few thousand percent mark up.

I was talking with the owner of a WW store near me a few years ago, he
had started stocking Rockler merchandise in his store. The pair of Blue
clamps used to hold a sacrificial fence onto a TS rip fence sold for
about $15, 5 or 6 years ago. He me told after closing his business 3
years ago that he was paying about 15~20 cents for the pair.

On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 17:44:42 -0400, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:

>-MIKE- wrote:
>> On 9/19/12 10:34 AM, Bill wrote:
>>>
>>> I thougth I had enough when I saw they had desiged "slots" for your
>>> bench for their bench cookies.
>>>
>>> Now, this morning, I see they have a 3 piece "Glue Applicator Kit"
>>> ($14.99).
>>>
>>> I hope you folks aren't encouraging them! ; )
>>>
>>> Bill
>>>
>>
>> Have you used them? They are pretty cool. I suppose you could try to
>> find some silicone material and make your own. Good luck with that. :-)
>>
>> The first time you use one of those spreaders and peel all the glue off
>> with one yank, it's worth the price of admission right then and there. I
>> suppose if you'd rather use scraps of wood to spread your glue or foam
>> brushes, you'll be happy. Those foam brushes start to add up and I never
>> seem to have a clean one handy. Good luck cleaning the glue off of
>> those. :-) To each his own.
>>
>> Besides, in a couple months they'll be $9.99 with free shipping.
>
>Besides being cheap, foam brushes come in multiple sizes.
>
>My last two times through Rockler's cashier, I was offered a glue brush.
>The first time I asked hesitantly, "are they free?" and it was explained
>that they were $4.99 (IIRC). I passed. I later realized that they were
>too small for most of my purposes anyway. The markup on those must be
>outstanding...same as the bench cookies. Next thing you know, Harbor
>Freight and Rockler may join forces.
>
>I think it would make the store Alot more exciting if they were a little
>bit more like a woodworking school. If they offer the right things I'll
>spend, but I'm not talking about a glue brush or a bench cookie! I'm
>not interested in turning a pen either! : ) Some visitors seem to
>enjoy seeing the carvers there on Saturday morning--I've seen them ask.

Iffen it's glue brushes or paint brushes you're needin', me lad, here
y'are:

Super cheaparse stuff http://tinyurl.com/ce4azay (glue)

Fair to middlin' http://tinyurl.com/cenpfln (glue or paint)


Fair to middlin' http://tinyurl.com/cg5oct3 (paint or finishes)

EXCELLENT glue brushes http://tinyurl.com/8boywk9 Reusable, too.
I preferred the old pure nylon style, but these are good as well.

AVOID AT ALL COSTS: 39687/8/9 "pro" brushes. NEE!
http://tinyurl.com/9gte6p2 These are the worst brushes I've ever used
in my _life_, and I've bought lots of cheap brushes in my time.
Run away! Run away! Run away! Run away! Run away! Run away!

--
The most decisive actions of our life - I mean those that are most
likely to decide the whole course of our future - are, more often
than not, unconsidered.
-- Andre Gide

O
>>>
>>> Crap... we're gonna have to put you in the next beer summit! :-)
>>
>>
>> LOL. Speaking of which ...

>>
>> Mike, is there a limit on a Hangout?
>>
>
>As soon as someone sends *me* some beer <ehem!>, I'll get right on
>that. :-p

If it helps, I have a keg of an Irish red ale that I brewed a couple
weeks ago in the kegerator...and I'll be brewing more after I get home
from vacation...come on over...the beer will be served in the correct
glass AND at the correct temp!

Oh...southern Wisconsin, BTW

;)

the OTHER mike

-MIKE- wrote:

>
> We like to eat out, partly because we like to support our local
> economy. I guess I don't have the balls to eat in.

Ummmmm.... no - let it go Mike, he meant going out to eat... let it go...

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 20:11:43 -0400, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>Being value-concious and being able to afford things are two entirely
>separate matters, sir. I'm giving up cable-tv this week. Do you have
>the balls to do that?

I wouldn't give up cable, but if you do, it may help you with your
woodworking because you might have more time for it.

Despite some of the critical language that goes on here and I'm
certainly not exempt from using it, try to look past it if the topic
is woodworking related... There's a whole lot of knowledge here for
the taking if you choose to do so.

On 9/19/2012 4:44 PM, Bill wrote:
> -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 9/19/12 10:34 AM, Bill wrote:
>>>
>>> I thougth I had enough when I saw they had desiged "slots" for your
>>> bench for their bench cookies.
>>>
>>> Now, this morning, I see they have a 3 piece "Glue Applicator Kit"
>>> ($14.99).
>>>
>>> I hope you folks aren't encouraging them! ; )
>>>
>>> Bill
>>>
>>
>> Have you used them? They are pretty cool. I suppose you could try to
>> find some silicone material and make your own. Good luck with that. :-)
>>
>> The first time you use one of those spreaders and peel all the glue off
>> with one yank, it's worth the price of admission right then and there. I
>> suppose if you'd rather use scraps of wood to spread your glue or foam
>> brushes, you'll be happy. Those foam brushes start to add up and I never
>> seem to have a clean one handy. Good luck cleaning the glue off of
>> those. :-) To each his own.
>>
>> Besides, in a couple months they'll be $9.99 with free shipping.
>
> Besides being cheap, foam brushes come in multiple sizes.
>
> My last two times through Rockler's cashier, I was offered a glue brush.
> The first time I asked hesitantly, "are they free?" and it was explained
> that they were $4.99 (IIRC). I passed. I later realized that they were
> too small for most of my purposes anyway. The markup on those must be
> outstanding...same as the bench cookies. Next thing you know, Harbor
> Freight and Rockler may join forces.

WTF does the perceived profit margin have to do with the value of a
product if it saves you time? You may want to reconsider whether wood
working is a hobby you can afford.

On 9/20/2012 8:26 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 13:27:09 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>
>> On 9/19/2012 8:55 PM, Bill wrote:
>>> Leon wrote:
>>>> On 9/19/2012 7:51 PM, Bill wrote:
>>>>> Leon wrote:
>>>>>> On 9/19/2012 7:17 PM, Bill wrote:
>>>
>>>> Bill you naturally assumed a particular F-word,
>>>
>>> Well, WTH does WTF mean???
>>>
>>> it could have been any
>>>> F-Word but that is where you went with it. Any way I apologise for
>>>> getting up in your face but it is some what offensive to those of us
>>>> that do spend money on items that you think are comically priced.
>>>
>>> Following your logic/economics, your decison of whether to buy something
>>> or not should have nothing to do with My perceived value of it (or
>>> whether I find its pricing humorous or not!) :)
>>>
>>> You could laugh out loud about what I have been spending on wood carving
>>> gouges, but at least they are made out of good steel! ; )
>>
>> Probably not, I own Festool tools. ;~)
>
> Have you checked out the new router table? It's a tad pricey but I probably
> have at least that in mine.
>>>

I watched the wood whisperer give it a quicky review. I have not seen
the price but changing the bit seems a bit involved if the fence has to
be removed. I was not inspired. I'd like to see one up close though.


>>>>
>>>> And yeah for an economics major you seemed to have forgotten a lot. What
>>>> you find comical about retail pricing is pretty much 101 in most any
>>>> type business degree.
>>>
>>> Humor is all in the eye of the beholder. I laugh when the price of gas
>>> shoots up! ;)
>>>
>>
>> I don't laugh but it most often makes my portfolio look better. ;~)
>
> I just feel sorry for the Obama supporters. Fools.

At least the ones with jobs. ;~O

On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 20:51:36 -0400, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:

>Leon wrote:
>> On 9/19/2012 7:17 PM, Bill wrote:
>
>>> I majored in economics (among other things). I have even worked in sales
>>> and run my own (small) businesses. I understand the dynamics of a
>>> transaction probably as well as anyone here.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> And yet I had to explain this to you....
>
>No, you didn't. That was my point. You made an inference because I wrote
>two sentences next to each other that they were directly-related.
>Then you brought out the F word, which we don't use in my house.

Then perhaps Usenet is not the medium you should be using.

On 9/19/12 10:34 AM, Bill wrote:
>
> I thougth I had enough when I saw they had desiged "slots" for your
> bench for their bench cookies.
>
> Now, this morning, I see they have a 3 piece "Glue Applicator Kit"
> ($14.99).
>
> I hope you folks aren't encouraging them! ; )
>
> Bill
>

Have you used them? They are pretty cool. I suppose you could try to
find some silicone material and make your own. Good luck with that. :-)

The first time you use one of those spreaders and peel all the glue off
with one yank, it's worth the price of admission right then and there. I
suppose if you'd rather use scraps of wood to spread your glue or foam
brushes, you'll be happy. Those foam brushes start to add up and I never
seem to have a clean one handy. Good luck cleaning the glue off of
those. :-) To each his own.

Besides, in a couple months they'll be $9.99 with free shipping.

--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

-MIKE- wrote:
> On 9/19/12 10:34 AM, Bill wrote:
>>
>> I thougth I had enough when I saw they had desiged "slots" for your
>> bench for their bench cookies.
>>
>> Now, this morning, I see they have a 3 piece "Glue Applicator Kit"
>> ($14.99).
>>
>> I hope you folks aren't encouraging them! ; )
>>
>> Bill
>>
>
> Have you used them? They are pretty cool. I suppose you could try to
> find some silicone material and make your own. Good luck with that. :-)
>
> The first time you use one of those spreaders and peel all the glue off
> with one yank, it's worth the price of admission right then and there. I
> suppose if you'd rather use scraps of wood to spread your glue or foam
> brushes, you'll be happy. Those foam brushes start to add up and I never
> seem to have a clean one handy. Good luck cleaning the glue off of
> those. :-) To each his own.
>
> Besides, in a couple months they'll be $9.99 with free shipping.

Besides being cheap, foam brushes come in multiple sizes.

My last two times through Rockler's cashier, I was offered a glue brush.
The first time I asked hesitantly, "are they free?" and it was explained
that they were $4.99 (IIRC). I passed. I later realized that they were
too small for most of my purposes anyway. The markup on those must be
outstanding...same as the bench cookies. Next thing you know, Harbor
Freight and Rockler may join forces.

I think it would make the store Alot more exciting if they were a little
bit more like a woodworking school. If they offer the right things I'll
spend, but I'm not talking about a glue brush or a bench cookie! I'm
not interested in turning a pen either! : ) Some visitors seem to
enjoy seeing the carvers there on Saturday morning--I've seen them ask.

Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 12:53:26 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>

>> The 3 piece kit, you sure don't need it but it sure makes life easier if
>> you can part with $15, especially if you do a lot of gluing.

I didn't see much "magic" in that 3-piece kit.

>
> Yeah, special heads for glue can be a godsend at times, ensuring good
> coverage on both sides of biscuit holes, f'rinstance. I'm as fond of
> Rockler's pricing as I am Festool's.
>
> http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=11401&site=ROCKLER would be
> the kit I'd opt for instead of the 3-pc set, but only when it was on
> half price sale with free shipping.

Keep in mind they always offer 20-25% off coupons, and they factor that
into their pricing a priori. I agree that $16.59 for that is silly. You
might do better at a craft store. I don't wish to see Rockler close
their doors, but I hate to see them looking for a quick buck. As I
mentioned in my earlier post, I hope they evolve with more educational
product. Of course, that makes it a lot more difficult to be a
corporation with franchises... It's easier for franchises to sell glue
bottles.


>
> --
> The most decisive actions of our life - I mean those that are most
> likely to decide the whole course of our future - are, more often
> than not, unconsidered.
> -- Andre Gide
>

Leon wrote:
> On 9/19/2012 4:44 PM, Bill wrote:
>> -MIKE- wrote:
>>> On 9/19/12 10:34 AM, Bill wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I thougth I had enough when I saw they had desiged "slots" for your
>>>> bench for their bench cookies.
>>>>
>>>> Now, this morning, I see they have a 3 piece "Glue Applicator Kit"
>>>> ($14.99).
>>>>
>>>> I hope you folks aren't encouraging them! ; )
>>>>
>>>> Bill
>>>>
>>>
>>> Have you used them? They are pretty cool. I suppose you could try to
>>> find some silicone material and make your own. Good luck with that. :-)
>>>
>>> The first time you use one of those spreaders and peel all the glue off
>>> with one yank, it's worth the price of admission right then and there. I
>>> suppose if you'd rather use scraps of wood to spread your glue or foam
>>> brushes, you'll be happy. Those foam brushes start to add up and I never
>>> seem to have a clean one handy. Good luck cleaning the glue off of
>>> those. :-) To each his own.
>>>
>>> Besides, in a couple months they'll be $9.99 with free shipping.
>>
>> Besides being cheap, foam brushes come in multiple sizes.
>>
>> My last two times through Rockler's cashier, I was offered a glue brush.
>> The first time I asked hesitantly, "are they free?" and it was explained
>> that they were $4.99 (IIRC). I passed. I later realized that they were
>> too small for most of my purposes anyway. The markup on those must be
>> outstanding...same as the bench cookies. Next thing you know, Harbor
>> Freight and Rockler may join forces.
>
> WTF does the perceived profit margin have to do with the value of a
> product if it saves you time? You may want to reconsider whether wood
> working is a hobby you can afford.

Did I say a high profit margin was a bad thing? In this case, I think
it's comical. IMHO, Apple is more deserving of the one they have.
And where the f. do you come accross talking to me like that?

On 9/19/12 5:57 PM, Leon wrote:
> On 9/19/2012 4:44 PM, Bill wrote:
>> Besides being cheap, foam brushes come in multiple sizes.
>>
>> My last two times through Rockler's cashier, I was offered a glue brush.
>> The first time I asked hesitantly, "are they free?" and it was explained
>> that they were $4.99 (IIRC). I passed. I later realized that they were
>> too small for most of my purposes anyway. The markup on those must be
>> outstanding...same as the bench cookies. Next thing you know, Harbor
>> Freight and Rockler may join forces.
>
> WTF does the perceived profit margin have to do with the value of a
> product if it saves you time? You may want to reconsider whether wood
> working is a hobby you can afford.
>

Exactly. Always cracks me up when people say that. Something is worth
what someone will pay for it, period. I hope they are making several
hundred percent on them. That way they stay in business and will still
be available when I need to buy something.

Evil bastards, trying to make a profit. ;-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Leon wrote:
> On 9/19/2012 4:44 PM, Bill wrote:

> WTF does the perceived profit margin have to do with the value of a
> product if it saves you time? You may want to reconsider whether wood
> working is a hobby you can afford.
>

I don't drink, smoke, wear fancy clothes, chase women, drive or buy
fancy cars, go to restaurants (not by choice), or own any green tools.
And I don't have any children (not bragging, by any means), I don't have
a dime of debt and I haven't paid any interest to anyone in 25 years.

Being value-concious and being able to afford things are two entirely
separate matters, sir. I'm giving up cable-tv this week. Do you have
the balls to do that?

Bill

Leon wrote:
> On 9/19/2012 6:49 PM, Bill wrote:
>> Leon wrote:
>>> On 9/19/2012 4:44 PM, Bill wrote:
>>>> -MIKE- wrote:
>>>>> On 9/19/12 10:34 AM, Bill wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I thougth I had enough when I saw they had desiged "slots" for your
>>>>>> bench for their bench cookies.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now, this morning, I see they have a 3 piece "Glue Applicator Kit"
>>>>>> ($14.99).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I hope you folks aren't encouraging them! ; )
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Have you used them? They are pretty cool. I suppose you could try to
>>>>> find some silicone material and make your own. Good luck with that.
>>>>> :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> The first time you use one of those spreaders and peel all the glue
>>>>> off
>>>>> with one yank, it's worth the price of admission right then and
>>>>> there. I
>>>>> suppose if you'd rather use scraps of wood to spread your glue or foam
>>>>> brushes, you'll be happy. Those foam brushes start to add up and I
>>>>> never
>>>>> seem to have a clean one handy. Good luck cleaning the glue off of
>>>>> those. :-) To each his own.
>>>>>
>>>>> Besides, in a couple months they'll be $9.99 with free shipping.
>>>>
>>>> Besides being cheap, foam brushes come in multiple sizes.
>>>>
>>>> My last two times through Rockler's cashier, I was offered a glue
>>>> brush.
>>>> The first time I asked hesitantly, "are they free?" and it was
>>>> explained
>>>> that they were $4.99 (IIRC). I passed. I later realized that they were
>>>> too small for most of my purposes anyway. The markup on those must be
>>>> outstanding...same as the bench cookies. Next thing you know, Harbor
>>>> Freight and Rockler may join forces.
>>>
>>> WTF does the perceived profit margin have to do with the value of a
>>> product if it saves you time? You may want to reconsider whether wood
>>> working is a hobby you can afford.
>>
>> Did I say a high profit margin was a bad thing? In this case, I think
>> it's comical. IMHO, Apple is more deserving of the one they have.
>> And where the f. do you come accross talking to me like that?
>
> Sorry Bill, but then you mentioned the $5 price and passed and figured
> the profit must be outstanding.....hopefully you are not just now
> realizing that the less expensive the product the greater the profit
> margin. I have run businesses since I was 21 years old and am
> currently self employeed/retired. The perceived/comical mark up is a
> fact of life, and that is absolutely not a very recent development. Have
> you ever purchased valve stems with a set of tires. I used to sell them
> for an exorbitant price of $1 each in the mid to late 70's. I paid
> about 3 cents each for them. If inexpensive products did not have a
> high mark up they would not be worth stocking and taking up room on the
> shelf. How much would pay for that item if you had to have it shipped?
> Ever wonder what the cost of a caned soft drink costs the retailer? How
> about that $1.50 Coke at McDonald's, I can assure you that if there was
> not the cost of the paper cup the drink would be almost all profit and
> the reason free refills are offered.


I majored in economics (among other things). I have even worked in sales
and run my own (small) businesses. I understand the dynamics of a
transaction probably as well as anyone here.

On 9/19/12 7:11 PM, Bill wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>> On 9/19/2012 4:44 PM, Bill wrote:
>
>> WTF does the perceived profit margin have to do with the value of a
>> product if it saves you time? You may want to reconsider whether wood
>> working is a hobby you can afford.
>>
>
> I don't drink, smoke, wear fancy clothes, chase women, drive or buy
> fancy cars, go to restaurants (not by choice), or own any green tools.
> And I don't have any children (not bragging, by any means), I don't have
> a dime of debt and I haven't paid any interest to anyone in 25 years.
>
> Being value-concious and being able to afford things are two entirely
> separate matters, sir. I'm giving up cable-tv this week. Do you have
> the balls to do that?
>
> Bill
>

Balls? Wow. So, you're preference to be entertained in difference ways
than another person means you have balls? Get over yourself.

We like to eat out, partly because we like to support our local economy.
I guess I don't have the balls to eat in.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 9/19/12 7:19 PM, Leon wrote:
> On 9/19/2012 7:09 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>
> More than likely they are making a few thousand percent mark up.
>

Good for them. What's your point?


> I was talking with the owner of a WW store near me a few years ago, he
> had started stocking Rockler merchandise in his store. The pair of Blue
> clamps used to hold a sacrificial fence onto a TS rip fence sold for
> about $15, 5 or 6 years ago. He me told after closing his business 3
> years ago that he was paying about 15~20 cents for the pair.
>

So what? Great. They are worth what he's selling them for or he wouldn't
be selling them. You think it's too much, go to China and get them made
for yourself.



--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Dave wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 20:11:43 -0400, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Being value-concious and being able to afford things are two entirely
>> separate matters, sir. I'm giving up cable-tv this week. Do you have
>> the balls to do that?
>
> I wouldn't give up cable, but if you do, it may help you with your
> woodworking because you might have more time for it.
>
> Despite some of the critical language that goes on here and I'm
> certainly not exempt from using it, try to look past it if the topic
> is woodworking related... There's a whole lot of knowledge here for
> the taking if you choose to do so.

You didn't see me run for the door. Sharing a little tidbit with you
(and the group), you might be surprised how much a little knowledge of
woodcarving can make a difference in one's wood working technique. It
enhances ones appreciation of the structure of the wood and how to best
cut (wood fibers). I'm not a know-it-all, just sharing my personal
observation.

-MIKE- wrote:
> On 9/19/12 7:11 PM, Bill wrote:
>> Leon wrote:
>>> On 9/19/2012 4:44 PM, Bill wrote:
>>
>>> WTF does the perceived profit margin have to do with the value of a
>>> product if it saves you time? You may want to reconsider whether wood
>>> working is a hobby you can afford.
>>>
>>
>> I don't drink, smoke, wear fancy clothes, chase women, drive or buy
>> fancy cars, go to restaurants (not by choice), or own any green tools.
>> And I don't have any children (not bragging, by any means), I don't have
>> a dime of debt and I haven't paid any interest to anyone in 25 years.
>>
>> Being value-concious and being able to afford things are two entirely
>> separate matters, sir. I'm giving up cable-tv this week. Do you have
>> the balls to do that?
>>
>> Bill
>>
>
> Balls? Wow. So, you're preference to be entertained in difference ways
> than another person means you have balls?

It's not a matter of preference. It reminds me of when I gave up smoking.

Get over yourself.

That's not a problem. I'm humble.

>
> We like to eat out, partly because we like to support our local economy.
> I guess I don't have the balls to eat in.

I would love to be able to eat out on occasion, but I can't due do
dietary restrictions (food additives, artificial flavors and
preservatives). It makes travel inconvenient. But it eliminates my need
to consider whether I can afford to pursue woodworking, as Leon
suggested I might do.

Leon wrote:
> On 9/19/2012 7:17 PM, Bill wrote:

>> I majored in economics (among other things). I have even worked in sales
>> and run my own (small) businesses. I understand the dynamics of a
>> transaction probably as well as anyone here.
>>
>>
>
> And yet I had to explain this to you....

No, you didn't. That was my point. You made an inference because I wrote
two sentences next to each other that they were directly-related.
Then you brought out the F word, which we don't use in my house.

Bill wrote:
> -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 9/19/12 10:34 AM, Bill wrote:
>>>
>>> I thougth I had enough when I saw they had desiged "slots" for your
>>> bench for their bench cookies.
>>>
>>> Now, this morning, I see they have a 3 piece "Glue Applicator Kit"
>>> ($14.99).
>>>
>>> I hope you folks aren't encouraging them! ; )
>>>
>>> Bill
>>>
>>
>> Have you used them? They are pretty cool. I suppose you could try to
>> find some silicone material and make your own. Good luck with that. :-)
>>
>> The first time you use one of those spreaders and peel all the glue off
>> with one yank, it's worth the price of admission right then and there. I
>> suppose if you'd rather use scraps of wood to spread your glue or foam
>> brushes, you'll be happy. Those foam brushes start to add up and I never
>> seem to have a clean one handy. Good luck cleaning the glue off of
>> those. :-) To each his own.
>>
>> Besides, in a couple months they'll be $9.99 with free shipping.
>
> Besides being cheap, foam brushes come in multiple sizes.
>
> My last two times through Rockler's cashier, I was offered a glue brush.
> The first time I asked hesitantly, "are they free?" and it was explained
> that they were $4.99 (IIRC). I passed. I later realized that they were
> too small for most of my purposes anyway. The markup on those must be
> outstanding...same as the bench cookies. Next thing you know, Harbor
> Freight and Rockler may join forces.
>
> I think it would make the store Alot more exciting if they were a little
> bit more like a woodworking school. If they offer the right things I'll
> spend, but I'm not talking about a glue brush or a bench cookie! I'm
> not interested in turning a pen either! : ) Some visitors seem to
> enjoy seeing the carvers there on Saturday morning--I've seen them ask.


Here is my post, rewritten:


Besides being cheap, foam brushes come in multiple sizes.

My last two times through Rockler's cashier, I was offered a glue brush.
The first time I asked hesitantly, "are they free?" and it was explained
that they were $4.99 (IIRC). I passed. I later realized that they were
too small for most of my purposes anyway.

The markup on those must be outstanding...same as the bench cookies.
Next thing you know, Harbor Freight and Rockler may join forces.

[The markup had nothing to do with my refusal! -- I already had 2 bads
of foam brushes at home!!!]

I think it would make the store Alot more exciting if they were a little
bit more like a woodworking school. If they offer the right things I'll
spend, but I'm not talking about a glue brush or a bench cookie! I'm
not interested in turning a pen either! : ) Some visitors seem to
enjoy seeing the carvers there on Saturday morning--I've seen them ask.

On 9/19/12 7:45 PM, Swingman wrote:
> On 9/19/2012 7:30 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 9/19/12 7:19 PM, Leon wrote:
>>> On 9/19/2012 7:09 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>
>>> More than likely they are making a few thousand percent mark up.
>>>
>>
>> Good for them. What's your point?
>>
>>
>>> I was talking with the owner of a WW store near me a few years ago, he
>>> had started stocking Rockler merchandise in his store. The pair of Blue
>>> clamps used to hold a sacrificial fence onto a TS rip fence sold for
>>> about $15, 5 or 6 years ago. He me told after closing his business 3
>>> years ago that he was paying about 15~20 cents for the pair.
>>>
>>
>> So what? Great. They are worth what he's selling them for or he wouldn't
>> be selling them. You think it's too much, go to China and get them made
>> for yourself.
>
>
> Could he have possibly been agreeing with, and reinforcing, exactly what
> you said?
>
> Have another beer, Mike. LOL
>

Done. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 9/19/12 7:47 PM, Bill wrote:
> -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 9/19/12 7:11 PM, Bill wrote:
>>> Leon wrote:
>>>> On 9/19/2012 4:44 PM, Bill wrote:
>>>
>>>> WTF does the perceived profit margin have to do with the value of a
>>>> product if it saves you time? You may want to reconsider whether wood
>>>> working is a hobby you can afford.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I don't drink, smoke, wear fancy clothes, chase women, drive or buy
>>> fancy cars, go to restaurants (not by choice), or own any green tools.
>>> And I don't have any children (not bragging, by any means), I don't have
>>> a dime of debt and I haven't paid any interest to anyone in 25 years.
>>>
>>> Being value-concious and being able to afford things are two entirely
>>> separate matters, sir. I'm giving up cable-tv this week. Do you have
>>> the balls to do that?
>>>
>>> Bill
>>>
>>
>> Balls? Wow. So, you're preference to be entertained in difference ways
>> than another person means you have balls?
>
> It's not a matter of preference. It reminds me of when I gave up smoking.
>

Yes, because cable gives you cancer. Still doesn't explain why somehow
it takes "balls" to give up an entertainment choice.


> Get over yourself.
>
> That's not a problem. I'm humble.
>
>>
>> We like to eat out, partly because we like to support our local economy.
>> I guess I don't have the balls to eat in.
>
> I would love to be able to eat out on occasion, but I can't due do
> dietary restrictions (food additives, artificial flavors and
> preservatives). It makes travel inconvenient. But it eliminates my need
> to consider whether I can afford to pursue woodworking, as Leon
> suggested I might do.
>

What does that have to do with being value conscience?


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 9/19/12 7:48 PM, Leon wrote:
> On 9/19/2012 7:30 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 9/19/12 7:19 PM, Leon wrote:
>>> On 9/19/2012 7:09 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>
>>> More than likely they are making a few thousand percent mark up.
>>>
>>
>> Good for them. What's your point?
>>
>>
>>> I was talking with the owner of a WW store near me a few years ago, he
>>> had started stocking Rockler merchandise in his store. The pair of Blue
>>> clamps used to hold a sacrificial fence onto a TS rip fence sold for
>>> about $15, 5 or 6 years ago. He me told after closing his business 3
>>> years ago that he was paying about 15~20 cents for the pair.
>>>
>>
>> So what? Great. They are worth what he's selling them for or he wouldn't
>> be selling them. You think it's too much, go to China and get them made
>> for yourself.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> I was just backing up buddy! LOL

Crap... we're gonna have to put you in the next beer summit! :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 9/19/12 8:18 PM, Leon wrote:
> On 9/19/2012 8:13 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 9/19/12 7:48 PM, Leon wrote:
>>> On 9/19/2012 7:30 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>> On 9/19/12 7:19 PM, Leon wrote:
>>>>> On 9/19/2012 7:09 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> More than likely they are making a few thousand percent mark up.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Good for them. What's your point?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I was talking with the owner of a WW store near me a few years ago, he
>>>>> had started stocking Rockler merchandise in his store. The pair of
>>>>> Blue
>>>>> clamps used to hold a sacrificial fence onto a TS rip fence sold for
>>>>> about $15, 5 or 6 years ago. He me told after closing his business 3
>>>>> years ago that he was paying about 15~20 cents for the pair.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So what? Great. They are worth what he's selling them for or he
>>>> wouldn't
>>>> be selling them. You think it's too much, go to China and get them made
>>>> for yourself.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I was just backing up buddy! LOL
>>
>> Crap... we're gonna have to put you in the next beer summit! :-)
>>
>>
>
>
> I'd love to do that but I really need to go to Swingmans house when that
> happens. LOL I need a more personal experience. ;~)


What you guys do with each other in the privacy of his bedroom, um I
mean house, is your business... I don't judge. :-p


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Leon wrote:
> On 9/19/2012 7:11 PM, Bill wrote:
>> Leon wrote:
>>> On 9/19/2012 4:44 PM, Bill wrote:
>>
>>> WTF does the perceived profit margin have to do with the value of a
>>> product if it saves you time? You may want to reconsider whether wood
>>> working is a hobby you can afford.
>>>
>>
>> I don't drink, smoke, wear fancy clothes, chase women, drive or buy
>> fancy cars, go to restaurants (not by choice), or own any green tools.
>> And I don't have any children (not bragging, by any means), I don't have
>> a dime of debt and I haven't paid any interest to anyone in 25 years.
>>
>> Being value-concious and being able to afford things are two entirely
>> separate matters, sir. I'm giving up cable-tv this week. Do you have
>> the balls to do that?
>>
>> Bill
>>
>
>
> Well my wife and I sent our son through college and masters degree
> school. He graduated in the Spring of 2010. LOL. We have been debt
> free since 1997. I was 42 at the time and retired. We pay cash for
> everything, including the house we bought 20 months ago, unless the
> interest that is offered is zero percent interest. I am not giving up
> Uverse and choose not to. BTY our son owns his home and will have it
> paid for by the end of next year if all goes as planned. He bought the
> house almost 2 years ago. Not bad for a 25 year old.

Yep.

>
> I did not study economics in college.

I started off with that, and felt the need to finish it even though I
ened up doing more in computer science. My parents helped me get that
far, at least for tuition.

Then after working a few years, I put myself through a MS and PhD in
math. My hiring institution encouraged me to pursue a MS in computer
science in my spare time (one of the busiest periods of my life).

You and I are about the same age. I could not retire at 42! (nice...)

If you were a Comcast customer instead of a U-verse customer you might
feel differently. Of course, I remember when ATT charged me about $80
to turn on my phone service. Comcast tries to charge all of their
customers differently--complain about pricing and you'll find that they
are "running a promotion". You would notice that they just want to keep
"raising those prices", charges for this, charges for that. They are
even inventing new (home security) services. In cancelling my service,
I am just reaccessing my needs. I ordered a linkstick (usb device) for
my tv yesterday in case we wish to try downloading a video. I
anticipate buying a "leaf indoor antenna" to get the local stations and
PBS (which is mostly what we watch anyway!).
I'm saying, to heck with Comcast's incessant price increases. I don't
appreciate the "pressure". I'll tell them that it's "just business",
which is close to what they tell me when they send out their new prices
every February, or so. Incidentally, thats the only chance you gets to
see all of their prices. At least, they are not available online
anywhere. I expect they are required to disclose their prices by law.
I don't want to send my money to a company that does business in that
fashion. I'm cutting them back to $62.95/mo, plus taxes! : )

On 9/19/12 8:28 PM, Swingman wrote:
> On 9/19/2012 8:13 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 9/19/12 7:48 PM, Leon wrote:
>>> On 9/19/2012 7:30 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>> On 9/19/12 7:19 PM, Leon wrote:
>>>>> On 9/19/2012 7:09 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> More than likely they are making a few thousand percent mark up.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Good for them. What's your point?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I was talking with the owner of a WW store near me a few years ago, he
>>>>> had started stocking Rockler merchandise in his store. The pair of
>>>>> Blue
>>>>> clamps used to hold a sacrificial fence onto a TS rip fence sold for
>>>>> about $15, 5 or 6 years ago. He me told after closing his business 3
>>>>> years ago that he was paying about 15~20 cents for the pair.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So what? Great. They are worth what he's selling them for or he
>>>> wouldn't
>>>> be selling them. You think it's too much, go to China and get them made
>>>> for yourself.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I was just backing up buddy! LOL
>>
>> Crap... we're gonna have to put you in the next beer summit! :-)
>
>
> LOL. Speaking of which ...
>
> You seem to have the skill set necessary to put it together. WTF are you
> waiting for??
>
> Just kidding, I would love to do that again, and participate in a
> fiduciary way, or otherwise, particularly if we can get Rob and Han, and
> C_less this time, and anyone else here who wants to participate.
>
> For you Luddites, this is Google Hangout territory, Honk if you ken ...
>
> Mike, is there a limit on a Hangout?
>

As soon as someone sends *me* some beer <ehem!>, I'll get right on
that. :-p


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Leon wrote:
> On 9/19/2012 7:51 PM, Bill wrote:
>> Leon wrote:
>>> On 9/19/2012 7:17 PM, Bill wrote:

> Bill you naturally assumed a particular F-word,

Well, WTH does WTF mean???

it could have been any
> F-Word but that is where you went with it. Any way I apologise for
> getting up in your face but it is some what offensive to those of us
> that do spend money on items that you think are comically priced.

Following your logic/economics, your decison of whether to buy something
or not should have nothing to do with My perceived value of it (or
whether I find its pricing humorous or not!) :)

You could laugh out loud about what I have been spending on wood carving
gouges, but at least they are made out of good steel! ; )

>
> And yeah for an economics major you seemed to have forgotten a lot. What
> you find comical about retail pricing is pretty much 101 in most any
> type business degree.

Humor is all in the eye of the beholder. I laugh when the price of gas
shoots up! ;)

Leon wrote:
> On 9/19/2012 7:57 PM, Bill wrote:
>> Bill wrote:

>> The markup on those must be outstanding...same as the bench cookies.

>
> Ok, Outstanding is still not the right word. :~) Nothing outstanding
> about an ordinary practice that has been used for many many years.

I'm not sure it's not the right word. I can imagine Rockler's CEO
writing in the annual report:

"Because of their high perceived-value, the demand for, and our
retail-markup on Rockler Glue Brushes and Rockler Bench Cookies (TM) has
been absolutely-outstanding! For many of our franchisees, these play a
decisive role in their ability to remain viable. We will be offering
several new products, aimed at offering an even greater level of
satisfaction and convenience to our customers, which we are eager to
release early in the coming fiscal year!...".



>
> Perhaps, mark up on those "glue brushes" must be more than on a TS.
>
> And still I wonder why you chose to bring that up? Don't go near a
> jewelery store. ;~)

I tried to explain to them that I wasn't as worried about the money for
the engagement ring, as much as I was about its consequences! Things
bascially worked out in my favor though! : )

Markem wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 20:51:36 -0400, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:

>> Then you brought out the F word, which we don't use in my house.
>
> Then perhaps Usenet is not the medium you should be using.
>

I like to think it works both ways. I brought some of me and my house
onto the Usenet, and vice-versa. Time goes by too fast to put up lots of
walls.

Larry Jaques wrote:

> AVOID AT ALL COSTS: 39687/8/9 "pro" brushes. NEE!
> http://tinyurl.com/9gte6p2 These are the worst brushes I've ever used
> in my _life_, and I've bought lots of cheap brushes in my time.
> Run away! Run away! Run away! Run away! Run away! Run away!

LOL -- Does the "hair" fall out???


>
> --
> The most decisive actions of our life - I mean those that are most
> likely to decide the whole course of our future - are, more often
> than not, unconsidered.
> -- Andre Gide
>

Markem wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 22:29:43 -0400, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Markem wrote:
>>> On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 20:51:36 -0400, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>> Then you brought out the F word, which we don't use in my house.
>>>
>>> Then perhaps Usenet is not the medium you should be using.
>>>
>>
>> I like to think it works both ways. I brought some of me and my house
>> onto the Usenet, and vice-versa. Time goes by too fast to put up lots of
>> walls.
>
> Take your pretentious ass somewhere else I am not in the mood for some
> crap from you.
>

Who the hell are you?

On 9/20/12 2:48 PM, Swingman wrote:
> On 9/20/2012 1:30 PM, Leon wrote:
>> Swingman does introduce me to his neighbors as his partner that he met
>> on the internet. ;~O
>
> Yabbut, you said you were a French model ... bahn jyour! LOL
>

I just threw up in my mouth.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 9/21/12 9:37 PM, Mike wrote:
> O
>>>>
>>>> Crap... we're gonna have to put you in the next beer summit! :-)
>>>
>>>
>>> LOL. Speaking of which ...
>
>>>
>>> Mike, is there a limit on a Hangout?
>>>
>>
>> As soon as someone sends *me* some beer <ehem!>, I'll get right on
>> that. :-p
>
> If it helps, I have a keg of an Irish red ale that I brewed a couple
> weeks ago in the kegerator...and I'll be brewing more after I get home
> from vacation...come on over...the beer will be served in the correct
> glass AND at the correct temp!
>
> Oh...southern Wisconsin, BTW
>
> ;)
>
> the OTHER mike
>

Wisconsin has the best beer stores!


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Bill wrote:
I'm giving up cable-tv this week.


I installed the new Samsung USB LinkStick (wireless device) ($31) on my
Samsung TV, and immediately found a CNBC App for real-time business
news, a YouTube App, and even a ESPN App (I'm not sure how that one
works yet), among others (like NetFlix and Hulu). By the way, Samsung's
web site indicated my TV required their (old model) $99 model linkstick,
but it didn't. I apologize for all of the parenthesis.

I think I'd encourage any friend to consider
cutting the cable cord (especially if they could get decent over-the-air
reception), as I would want them to encourage me to do so.
It feels a little "liberating", but old habits aren't broken without a
little resistance.

Evidently DVRs are only available by Tivo--and they think a lot of them,
wanting $400-500 per each. That seems like alot for what is basically a
"VCR"...

I've already learned plenty about antennas (at least 6-8 hours worth).
Some of you folks surely know a great deal more than I do about them.
Suffice to say that a lot of companies seem to be selling "$16 glue
bottles" for indoor antennas! And "No", I've never tried a $16 glue
bootle... ; ) Recall the $99 LinkStick--who can you trust??? Your
fellow reviewers, that's who!!! : )

Cheers,
Bill

Puckdropper wrote:

> You can build your own DVR for maybe half that if you've got a
> reasonably modern system. A decent tuner card with hardware encoder
> ($100), a big hard disk ($100), and DVR software (free) and you're good
> to go.

Hmmm.. Thank you very much for the suggestion! I've already got a cable
tv card (circa 2000). It took me quite a while to find a driver for it
for WindowsXP, so it would be fun to try to make it work again under
Windows7. Oh, and satisfying! : ) And I've got a 1 TB external HDD I
used for backup, so I'm almost there. Instead of moving things around I
maybe should just spring for a second antenna (see my related-comments
below).



>
>> I've already learned plenty about antennas (at least 6-8 hours worth).
>> Some of you folks surely know a great deal more than I do about them.
>> Suffice to say that a lot of companies seem to be selling "$16 glue
>> bottles" for indoor antennas! And "No", I've never tried a $16 glue
>> bootle... ; ) Recall the $99 LinkStick--who can you trust??? Your
>> fellow reviewers, that's who!!! : )
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Bill
>
> My antenna cost only time. We're only about 10 miles from the
> transmitters (at most), so a folded dipole made out of 300 ohm cable
> works quite well. I'd like to put up a better antenna for those times
> when reception is spotty, but considering there's only 2 channels I
> actually watch it's not a high priority.
>
> Puckdropper
>

After all my antenna research, which spanned multiple evenings, reading
reviews, etc., I went to BestBuy and bought an RCA-111--basically "a set
of rabbit ears with a loop", for $10.99. While it is not as pretty as
most of the other choices, by being bigger it can draw those signals,
like VHF, which are most easily obtained by a "directional" antenna.

After repositioning it to get the "pixel noise" out of a PBS station, by
soft of pointing it towards a window, we received 28 stations, all with
clear reception, including 1 Spanish station, 2 Christian stations, 3
PBS stations, and the major networks. After watching for 5 minutes, my
wife and I both were like "Wow, why didn't we try this sooner?".
[Afterthought: Hmmm... marketing? We were schnookered! ;) ]

And with YouTube as an App on my TV now, there is more woodworking there
than before! I watched the end of the Michigan vs Notre Dame football
game in over-the-air HD, and couldn't tell the difference!
: )

Over the air reception is, of course, very much location dependant.
Things are pretty flat here in central Indiana. Good luck to anyone
else who wants to "cut the cable cord"!

Cheers,
Bill

Bill wrote:
> Puckdropper wrote:
>
>> You can build your own DVR for maybe half that if you've got a
>> reasonably modern system. A decent tuner card with hardware encoder
>> ($100), a big hard disk ($100), and DVR software (free) and you're good
>> to go.
>
> Hmmm.. Thank you very much for the suggestion! I've already got a cable
> tv card (circa 2000). It took me quite a while to find a driver for it
> for WindowsXP, so it would be fun to try to make it work again under
> Windows7. Oh, and satisfying! : )

It occurs to me that even at best my tune would not save me any HD
recordings. There seem to be a few choices out there. When in doubt, go
with Hauppauge huh?

Cheers,
Bill



And I've got a 1 TB external HDD I
> used for backup, so I'm almost there. Instead of moving things around I
> maybe should just spring for a second antenna (see my related-comments
> below).
>
>
>
>>
>>> I've already learned plenty about antennas (at least 6-8 hours worth).
>>> Some of you folks surely know a great deal more than I do about them.
>>> Suffice to say that a lot of companies seem to be selling "$16 glue
>>> bottles" for indoor antennas! And "No", I've never tried a $16 glue
>>> bootle... ; ) Recall the $99 LinkStick--who can you trust??? Your
>>> fellow reviewers, that's who!!! : )
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Bill
>>
>> My antenna cost only time. We're only about 10 miles from the
>> transmitters (at most), so a folded dipole made out of 300 ohm cable
>> works quite well. I'd like to put up a better antenna for those times
>> when reception is spotty, but considering there's only 2 channels I
>> actually watch it's not a high priority.
>>
>> Puckdropper
>>
>
> After all my antenna research, which spanned multiple evenings, reading
> reviews, etc., I went to BestBuy and bought an RCA-111--basically "a set
> of rabbit ears with a loop", for $10.99. While it is not as pretty as
> most of the other choices, by being bigger it can draw those signals,
> like VHF, which are most easily obtained by a "directional" antenna.
>
> After repositioning it to get the "pixel noise" out of a PBS station, by
> soft of pointing it towards a window, we received 28 stations, all with
> clear reception, including 1 Spanish station, 2 Christian stations, 3
> PBS stations, and the major networks. After watching for 5 minutes, my
> wife and I both were like "Wow, why didn't we try this sooner?".
> [Afterthought: Hmmm... marketing? We were schnookered! ;) ]
>
> And with YouTube as an App on my TV now, there is more woodworking there
> than before! I watched the end of the Michigan vs Notre Dame football
> game in over-the-air HD, and couldn't tell the difference!
> : )
>
> Over the air reception is, of course, very much location dependant.
> Things are pretty flat here in central Indiana. Good luck to anyone
> else who wants to "cut the cable cord"!
>
> Cheers,
> Bill
>
>

On 9/23/2012 12:42 AM, Bill wrote:
> Puckdropper wrote:
>
>> You can build your own DVR for maybe half that if you've got a
>> reasonably modern system. A decent tuner card with hardware encoder
>> ($100), a big hard disk ($100), and DVR software (free) and you're good
>> to go.
>
> Hmmm.. Thank you very much for the suggestion! I've already got a cable
> tv card (circa 2000). It took me quite a while to find a driver for it
> for WindowsXP, so it would be fun to try to make it work again under
> Windows7. Oh, and satisfying! : ) And I've got a 1 TB external HDD I
> used for backup, so I'm almost there. Instead of moving things around I
> maybe should just spring for a second antenna (see my related-comments
> below).
>
>
>
>>
>>> I've already learned plenty about antennas (at least 6-8 hours worth).
>>> Some of you folks surely know a great deal more than I do about them.
>>> Suffice to say that a lot of companies seem to be selling "$16 glue
>>> bottles" for indoor antennas! And "No", I've never tried a $16 glue
>>> bootle... ; ) Recall the $99 LinkStick--who can you trust??? Your
>>> fellow reviewers, that's who!!! : )
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Bill
>>
>> My antenna cost only time. We're only about 10 miles from the
>> transmitters (at most), so a folded dipole made out of 300 ohm cable
>> works quite well. I'd like to put up a better antenna for those times
>> when reception is spotty, but considering there's only 2 channels I
>> actually watch it's not a high priority.
>>
>> Puckdropper
>>
>
> After all my antenna research, which spanned multiple evenings, reading
> reviews, etc., I went to BestBuy and bought an RCA-111--basically "a set
> of rabbit ears with a loop", for $10.99. While it is not as pretty as
> most of the other choices, by being bigger it can draw those signals,
> like VHF, which are most easily obtained by a "directional" antenna.
>
> After repositioning it to get the "pixel noise" out of a PBS station, by
> soft of pointing it towards a window, we received 28 stations, all with
> clear reception, including 1 Spanish station, 2 Christian stations, 3
> PBS stations, and the major networks. After watching for 5 minutes, my
> wife and I both were like "Wow, why didn't we try this sooner?".
> [Afterthought: Hmmm... marketing? We were schnookered! ;) ]
>
> And with YouTube as an App on my TV now, there is more woodworking there
> than before! I watched the end of the Michigan vs Notre Dame football
> game in over-the-air HD, and couldn't tell the difference!
> : )
>
> Over the air reception is, of course, very much location dependant.
> Things are pretty flat here in central Indiana. Good luck to anyone
> else who wants to "cut the cable cord"!
>
> Cheers,
> Bill
>
>
We watched broadcast TV in Central Indiana from the "switch to digital"
until last year, and always had plenty of stations and programs programs
to select.

We now live about 20 miles east of Raleigh NC and find the the situation
is the same, we have over a dozen over-the-air channel to pick from.

Puckdropper wrote:

> FWIW, I used Hauppauge's WinTV app with Windows XP for a year or so when
> I was getting in to this. It might be nice if you had one computer to
> use, but for a dedicated DVR there's better software out there. GB-PVR
> comes to mind on Windows and MythTV on Linux. (Last I knew, MythTV had
> a Windows frontend, but it didn't do recording. Once set up, however,
> you don't have to mess with the OS.)
<snip>
> Puckdropper
>

Does that imply you have a Hauppauge (PCI) tuner?

I will set it up. However, my wife has the most interest in
programming shows, so a friendly interface is required!

It sounds like sort of an interesting project. Thus, far I have avoided
any sort of file sharing over our (local) network, but there are some
interesting possibilities here.

Thank you for your encouragement! : )

Cheers,
Bill

Swingman wrote:

> Heres my Hauppauge WinTV setup I use when holding open houses on
> Sunday's in new construction that has no internet or TV.
>
> The little radio shack antenna is active and really works well, although
> I'm not all that far from most of local OTA broadcasts:

From what I understand, getting UHF stations is not so hard as getting
VHF ones. They correspond, I believe, to the part of the antenna with
"circular metal ring". And people are packaging them up those antennas
for big money! I would have payed $100 for an antenna, if that's what I
needed. But for an unamplified indoor antenna, I think that the rabbit
ears may be (bigger and) better--at least as far as receiving signals
goes. I get more stations than antennaweb.org suggested that I was going
to get. Of course, someone who is "serious" wants a "roof top" antenna.

That was a nice idea you had--putting TV in new houses that you show!

Bill


>
> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopMiscellaneous#5791463145054408706
>
>
>
> The OTA HD viewed content on that little laptop, with none of the
> compression cable providers add, is much soooombetter than you get on
> cable.
>

BTW, I'm glad it didn't bother anyone that I misspelled TV in the
subject line! : ) Of coure, "Cable TB" has it's own irony.

On 9/23/2012 5:00 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
> Bill <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:

> I have two hauppauge tuners. The first one stopped working properly on
> one input and was replaced with another with more features. The first
> one is PCI, while the second is PCIe. They are not compatible!

I haven't checked the situation recently, but I think I got a good deal
on my PCIe external HDD because of the lack of popularity of PCIe at the
time. I think it's much faster than USB 2.0 as well, more akin to USB
3.0, but don't quote me on that. I can just say that it does what it's
supposed to do quite well. What are you sentiments about PCIe?

Cheers,
Bill



>
> You may find the biggest hassle in all this is getting program guide
> data for scheduling. Not all digital TV stations send out their guide
> data properly or very far in advance.
>
> Puckdropper
>

On 9/24/2012 12:14 PM, Puckdropper wrote:

> A PCIe external hard drive doesn't make sense. Are you thinking of
> eSATA? (Firewire and USB are common interfaces as well.)

Puck,

Yes, it is surely eSATA. Sorry about the confusion. Are eSATA devices
very popular now with the presence of USB 3.0? My motherboard (made by
GIGA-BYTE) has USB 3.0 too, but I haven't used it. Strangely, its USB
3.0 shares a bus with its graphics card, so my graphics speed is
supposed to be cut in half if I use USB 3.0. Not having used it, I don't
know whether that means all the time, or only when the USB port is
"working". I would guess the former.

Cheers,
Bill

>
> Puckdroppre
>

Scott Lurndal wrote:

> The PCI local bus is a standard parallel bus used to connected peripheral
> adapter cards to the processor complex, via one or more PCI bridges. The
> PCI bus is pretty much obsolete at this point, having been replaced in
> most systems by the serial, point-to-point PCI Express bus (aka PCIe).
>
> A PCIe root complex provides one or more SERDES lanes (usually in groups of
> four, 8 or 16) which use differential signalling to support fast serial
> transfers on each lane; the lanes can be grouped such that 1, 4, 8 or 16
> lanes are connected to a PCIe endpoint (e.g. SATA adapter, NIC, Infiniband,
> Graphics card). The number of lanes (and PCIe generation) govern the bandwidth
> available between the adapter card and the memory subsystem.
>
> Most new systems no longer have PCI peripheral slots (but may, internally within
> the chipset, use PCI-PCI bridges for legacy peripherals); but rather include
> one or more X1, X4, X8 or X16 PCIexpress slots.
>
> I suspect that your "PCIe external HDD" is really eSATA (external SATA) connected
> to a SATA controller which interfaces via a PCIe Root Complex to the processor/memory
> subsystem. There is a new standard coming for SSD (solid-state disk) access via
> PCIe (Called NVM Express/NVMe), but it won't handle ATA drives (it's designed for
> plugin PCIe cards with large quantities of NAND/NOR flash chips on board).
>
> scott


I can see you really know your stuff! One just can't have enough
communication protocals! ; )

Seeing the tiny little 32-GB micro-SD chips on sale for $30 or so
(which plug into a phone, for instance), one has to accept that some
things have changed! -- LOL. ; )

Cheers,
Bill

Puckdropper wrote:
> "G. Ross" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> Wish I still had my first hard drive just to show the kids. It was
>> semi-shoebox size and held a whopping 20 MEGAbytes.

So the little 32GB Micro-SD card holds 50 x 32 = 1600 times as much!!!

I was thinking that multiple was 160, at first, and it's how many times
smaller? Wikipedia says it's 15mm by 11 mm, or about 5/8" x 1/2" to
non-metricians. Yep, 32 GB in 5/16" of a square inch. More than 32
billions bytes, which is 8x32=256 billion bits! More than enough to
count even... Even 256 would be too many for me to count, unless I put
them in stacks of 10 = F +1 (=2^4 -1).


>>
>
> It wasn't a Seagate ST225 by any chance, was it? It was a really common
> drive that fit your description.
>
> I've got an IBM XT with a full-height hard drive. I don't remember the
> capacity, but it wasn't much. Somewhere less than 20MB, I believe. (I've
> also got a couple of the ST225s.)
>
> Last year, we used punch cards in a chemistry class... Ok, we wrote on
> them like they were note cards because the instructors claimed they were
> easier to handle than 1/2 sheets of paper for the short quizzes they gave
> us.
>
> Puckdropper
>

Bill wrote:
> Puckdropper wrote:
>> "G. Ross" <[email protected]> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>>> Wish I still had my first hard drive just to show the kids. It was
>>> semi-shoebox size and held a whopping 20 MEGAbytes.
>
> So the little 32GB Micro-SD card holds 50 x 32 = 1600 times as much!!!
>
> I was thinking that multiple was 160, at first, and it's how many times
> smaller? Wikipedia says it's 15mm by 11 mm, or about 5/8" x 1/2" to
> non-metricians. Yep, 32 GB in 5/16" of a square inch. More than 32
> billions bytes, which is 8x32=256 billion bits! More than enough to
> count even... Even 256 would be too many for me to count, unless I put
> them in stacks of 10 = F +1 (=2^4 -1).

Yeah, I know, F+1 = 2^4. That was the result of bad editing on my part,
no doubt brought on by my euphoria...

Puckdropper wrote:
> Bill <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
>
>> Puckdropper wrote:
>>
>>> FWIW, I used Hauppauge's WinTV app with Windows XP for a year or so
>>> when I was getting in to this. It might be nice if you had one
>>> computer to use, but for a dedicated DVR there's better software out
>>> there. GB-PVR comes to mind on Windows and MythTV on Linux. (Last I
>>> knew, MythTV had a Windows frontend, but it didn't do recording.
>>> Once set up, however, you don't have to mess with the OS.)
>> <snip>
>>> Puckdropper
>>>
>>
>> Does that imply you have a Hauppauge (PCI) tuner?
>>
>> I will set it up. However, my wife has the most interest in
>> programming shows, so a friendly interface is required!
>>
>> It sounds like sort of an interesting project. Thus, far I have
>> avoided any sort of file sharing over our (local) network, but there
>> are some interesting possibilities here.
>>
>> Thank you for your encouragement! : )
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Bill
>
> I have two hauppauge tuners. The first one stopped working properly on
> one input and was replaced with another with more features. The first
> one is PCI, while the second is PCIe. They are not compatible!
>
> You may find the biggest hassle in all this is getting program guide
> data for scheduling. Not all digital TV stations send out their guide
> data properly or very far in advance.
>
> Puckdropper
>

How about a USB 2.0 Device: Hauppauges "WinTV HVR-950 hybrid TV stick"
(NTSC/ATSC HD TV reciever). This is handy since my wife already has one
(I've got her looking for the software)! It being small, I expect it is
leaving lots of processing to the host CPU which otherwise might be done
by a tuner on a PCI card. True? It reminds me of the "hardware (phone)
modem versus virtual modem" debate that the Linux people carried on for
years!

Cheers,
Bill

Bill wrote:
> Puckdropper wrote:

>> I have two hauppauge tuners. The first one stopped working properly on
>> one input and was replaced with another with more features. The first
>> one is PCI, while the second is PCIe. They are not compatible!
>>
>> You may find the biggest hassle in all this is getting program guide
>> data for scheduling. Not all digital TV stations send out their guide
>> data properly or very far in advance.
>>
>> Puckdropper
>>
>
> How about a USB 2.0 Device: Hauppauges "WinTV HVR-950 hybrid TV stick"
> (NTSC/ATSC HD TV reciever). This is handy since my wife already has one
> (I've got her looking for the software)! It being small, I expect it is
> leaving lots of processing to the host CPU which otherwise might be done
> by a tuner on a PCI card. True? It reminds me of the "hardware (phone)
> modem versus virtual modem" debate that the Linux people carried on for
> years!
>
> Cheers,
> Bill

I downloaded the software and drivers to support the TV-stick for
Windows Media Center from Hauppauges support pages. Then I unplugged the
rabbit ears from my tv and hooked them up to my usb device. And hey it
works, including 2 weeks of TV-guide info!

A little file sharing, and we'll practically have a DVR!

I need more rabbit ears! I think this "system" needs ot be on my
wife's computer. : )

Cheers,
Bill

Puckdropper wrote:
> Bill <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
>
>>
>> How about a USB 2.0 Device: Hauppauges "WinTV HVR-950 hybrid TV stick"
>> (NTSC/ATSC HD TV reciever). This is handy since my wife already has
>> one (I've got her looking for the software)! It being small, I expect
>> it is leaving lots of processing to the host CPU which otherwise might
>> be done by a tuner on a PCI card. True? It reminds me of the
>> "hardware (phone) modem versus virtual modem" debate that the Linux
>> people carried on for years!
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Bill
>
> It looks like it uses a software-based encoder. If it works for you,
> then no problem. You should be able to see how hard your CPU has to
> work in Task Manager.
>
> Hardware modems are still best. ;-)

Following that point of view cost me several hundred dollars over the
years at $79 a crack. A crack of lightning that is. I've still got my
last one; I would be willing to let you have it for $39.99. Do they
still sell them? : ) Maybe it's a "collectable"? : )

>
> Puckdropper
>

On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 13:27:09 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

>On 9/19/2012 8:55 PM, Bill wrote:
>> Leon wrote:
>>> On 9/19/2012 7:51 PM, Bill wrote:
>>>> Leon wrote:
>>>>> On 9/19/2012 7:17 PM, Bill wrote:
>>
>>> Bill you naturally assumed a particular F-word,
>>
>> Well, WTH does WTF mean???
>>
>> it could have been any
>>> F-Word but that is where you went with it. Any way I apologise for
>>> getting up in your face but it is some what offensive to those of us
>>> that do spend money on items that you think are comically priced.
>>
>> Following your logic/economics, your decison of whether to buy something
>> or not should have nothing to do with My perceived value of it (or
>> whether I find its pricing humorous or not!) :)
>>
>> You could laugh out loud about what I have been spending on wood carving
>> gouges, but at least they are made out of good steel! ; )
>
>Probably not, I own Festool tools. ;~)

Have you checked out the new router table? It's a tad pricey but I probably
have at least that in mine.
>>
>>>
>>> And yeah for an economics major you seemed to have forgotten a lot. What
>>> you find comical about retail pricing is pretty much 101 in most any
>>> type business degree.
>>
>> Humor is all in the eye of the beholder. I laugh when the price of gas
>> shoots up! ;)
>>
>
>I don't laugh but it most often makes my portfolio look better. ;~)

I just feel sorry for the Obama supporters. Fools.

On Wed, 19 Sep 2012 19:30:31 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
wrote:



>
>> I was talking with the owner of a WW store near me a few years ago, he
>> had started stocking Rockler merchandise in his store. The pair of Blue
>> clamps used to hold a sacrificial fence onto a TS rip fence sold for
>> about $15, 5 or 6 years ago. He me told after closing his business 3
>> years ago that he was paying about 15~20 cents for the pair.
>>
>
>So what? Great. They are worth what he's selling them for or he wouldn't
>be selling them. You think it's too much, go to China and get them made
>for yourself.

I don't have a problem with big markups. As pointed out, on low cost
items it is needed to cover the cost of stocking them. What does bug
me though, is when you see something re-purposed. A tool in the
hardware stores goes for $5, but the same exact tool in a kitchen or
craft shop may be selling for $15.

On Fri, 21 Sep 2012 21:47:38 -0500, Mike <[email protected]> wrote:

><<snippage>>
>>
>>I tried my new painting pyramids the other day and the project went
>>skidding off it half a dozen times while the pyramids went skidding
>>all around the wax paper I put under them. I'm less impressed in them
>>after use, lemme tell ya. <g> I'll screw 'em to some scrap sheet next
>>time.
>>
>I had the same trouble...so I glued a piece of router mat to one side
>of each pyramid...no more sliding around.
>
>Oh...I don't use wax paper...very slippery...I use kraft paper. The
>router mat-stuff sticks just fine to that stuff.

I buy remnant rolls ($1-$5 for several thousand feet) of several types
of paper from the newspaper office for use on my assy table, but I
didn't have one there at the time. The wax paper was handy so I used
it. Bad move. Shoulda screwed. <g>

Route mat sounds like a plan. I have lots of that same rubbery shelf
paper stuff which would work. I think I'll try that this weekend on a
few. Thanks.

--
Life is like one big Mardi Gras. But instead of showing your boobs,
show people your brain, and if they like what they see, you'll have
more beads than you know what to do with.
-- Ellen DeGeneres, Tulane Commencement Speech, 2009

On 9/19/2012 7:17 PM, Bill wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>> On 9/19/2012 6:49 PM, Bill wrote:
>>> Leon wrote:
>>>> On 9/19/2012 4:44 PM, Bill wrote:
>>>>> -MIKE- wrote:
>>>>>> On 9/19/12 10:34 AM, Bill wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I thougth I had enough when I saw they had desiged "slots" for your
>>>>>>> bench for their bench cookies.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Now, this morning, I see they have a 3 piece "Glue Applicator Kit"
>>>>>>> ($14.99).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I hope you folks aren't encouraging them! ; )
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Have you used them? They are pretty cool. I suppose you could try to
>>>>>> find some silicone material and make your own. Good luck with that.
>>>>>> :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The first time you use one of those spreaders and peel all the glue
>>>>>> off
>>>>>> with one yank, it's worth the price of admission right then and
>>>>>> there. I
>>>>>> suppose if you'd rather use scraps of wood to spread your glue or
>>>>>> foam
>>>>>> brushes, you'll be happy. Those foam brushes start to add up and I
>>>>>> never
>>>>>> seem to have a clean one handy. Good luck cleaning the glue off of
>>>>>> those. :-) To each his own.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Besides, in a couple months they'll be $9.99 with free shipping.
>>>>>
>>>>> Besides being cheap, foam brushes come in multiple sizes.
>>>>>
>>>>> My last two times through Rockler's cashier, I was offered a glue
>>>>> brush.
>>>>> The first time I asked hesitantly, "are they free?" and it was
>>>>> explained
>>>>> that they were $4.99 (IIRC). I passed. I later realized that they
>>>>> were
>>>>> too small for most of my purposes anyway. The markup on those must be
>>>>> outstanding...same as the bench cookies. Next thing you know, Harbor
>>>>> Freight and Rockler may join forces.
>>>>
>>>> WTF does the perceived profit margin have to do with the value of a
>>>> product if it saves you time? You may want to reconsider whether wood
>>>> working is a hobby you can afford.
>>>
>>> Did I say a high profit margin was a bad thing? In this case, I think
>>> it's comical. IMHO, Apple is more deserving of the one they have.
>>> And where the f. do you come accross talking to me like that?
>>
>> Sorry Bill, but then you mentioned the $5 price and passed and figured
>> the profit must be outstanding.....hopefully you are not just now
>> realizing that the less expensive the product the greater the profit
>> margin. I have run businesses since I was 21 years old and am
>> currently self employeed/retired. The perceived/comical mark up is a
>> fact of life, and that is absolutely not a very recent development. Have
>> you ever purchased valve stems with a set of tires. I used to sell them
>> for an exorbitant price of $1 each in the mid to late 70's. I paid
>> about 3 cents each for them. If inexpensive products did not have a
>> high mark up they would not be worth stocking and taking up room on the
>> shelf. How much would pay for that item if you had to have it shipped?
>> Ever wonder what the cost of a caned soft drink costs the retailer? How
>> about that $1.50 Coke at McDonald's, I can assure you that if there was
>> not the cost of the paper cup the drink would be almost all profit and
>> the reason free refills are offered.
>
>
> I majored in economics (among other things). I have even worked in sales
> and run my own (small) businesses. I understand the dynamics of a
> transaction probably as well as anyone here.
>
>

And yet I had to explain this to you....

On 9/19/2012 7:45 PM, Swingman wrote:
> On 9/19/2012 7:30 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 9/19/12 7:19 PM, Leon wrote:
>>> On 9/19/2012 7:09 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>
>>> More than likely they are making a few thousand percent mark up.
>>>
>>
>> Good for them. What's your point?
>>
>>
>>> I was talking with the owner of a WW store near me a few years ago, he
>>> had started stocking Rockler merchandise in his store. The pair of Blue
>>> clamps used to hold a sacrificial fence onto a TS rip fence sold for
>>> about $15, 5 or 6 years ago. He me told after closing his business 3
>>> years ago that he was paying about 15~20 cents for the pair.
>>>
>>
>> So what? Great. They are worth what he's selling them for or he wouldn't
>> be selling them. You think it's too much, go to China and get them made
>> for yourself.
>
>
> Could he have possibly been agreeing with, and reinforcing, exactly what
> you said?
>
> Have another beer, Mike. LOL
>

A'yup LOL.

On 9/19/2012 7:30 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 9/19/12 7:19 PM, Leon wrote:
>> On 9/19/2012 7:09 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>
>> More than likely they are making a few thousand percent mark up.
>>
>
> Good for them. What's your point?
>
>
>> I was talking with the owner of a WW store near me a few years ago, he
>> had started stocking Rockler merchandise in his store. The pair of Blue
>> clamps used to hold a sacrificial fence onto a TS rip fence sold for
>> about $15, 5 or 6 years ago. He me told after closing his business 3
>> years ago that he was paying about 15~20 cents for the pair.
>>
>
> So what? Great. They are worth what he's selling them for or he wouldn't
> be selling them. You think it's too much, go to China and get them made
> for yourself.
>
>
>


I was just backing up buddy! LOL

On 9/19/2012 10:34 AM, Bill wrote:
>
> I thougth I had enough when I saw they had desiged "slots" for your
> bench for their bench cookies.
>
> Now, this morning, I see they have a 3 piece "Glue Applicator Kit"
> ($14.99).
>
> I hope you folks aren't encouraging them! ; )
>
> Bill
>


I suppose you are talking slots for fastening the cookies. They will
walk if you don't fasten them in place.

The 3 piece kit, you sure don't need it but it sure makes life easier if
you can part with $15, especially if you do a lot of gluing.

On 9/19/2012 8:13 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 9/19/12 7:48 PM, Leon wrote:
>> On 9/19/2012 7:30 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>> On 9/19/12 7:19 PM, Leon wrote:
>>>> On 9/19/2012 7:09 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>>
>>>> More than likely they are making a few thousand percent mark up.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Good for them. What's your point?
>>>
>>>
>>>> I was talking with the owner of a WW store near me a few years ago, he
>>>> had started stocking Rockler merchandise in his store. The pair of
>>>> Blue
>>>> clamps used to hold a sacrificial fence onto a TS rip fence sold for
>>>> about $15, 5 or 6 years ago. He me told after closing his business 3
>>>> years ago that he was paying about 15~20 cents for the pair.
>>>>
>>>
>>> So what? Great. They are worth what he's selling them for or he wouldn't
>>> be selling them. You think it's too much, go to China and get them made
>>> for yourself.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> I was just backing up buddy! LOL
>
> Crap... we're gonna have to put you in the next beer summit! :-)
>
>


I'd love to do that but I really need to go to Swingmans house when that
happens. LOL I need a more personal experience. ;~)

On 9/19/2012 7:57 PM, Bill wrote:
> Bill wrote:
>> -MIKE- wrote:
>>> On 9/19/12 10:34 AM, Bill wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I thougth I had enough when I saw they had desiged "slots" for your
>>>> bench for their bench cookies.
>>>>
>>>> Now, this morning, I see they have a 3 piece "Glue Applicator Kit"
>>>> ($14.99).
>>>>
>>>> I hope you folks aren't encouraging them! ; )
>>>>
>>>> Bill
>>>>
>>>
>>> Have you used them? They are pretty cool. I suppose you could try to
>>> find some silicone material and make your own. Good luck with that. :-)
>>>
>>> The first time you use one of those spreaders and peel all the glue off
>>> with one yank, it's worth the price of admission right then and there. I
>>> suppose if you'd rather use scraps of wood to spread your glue or foam
>>> brushes, you'll be happy. Those foam brushes start to add up and I never
>>> seem to have a clean one handy. Good luck cleaning the glue off of
>>> those. :-) To each his own.
>>>
>>> Besides, in a couple months they'll be $9.99 with free shipping.
>>
>> Besides being cheap, foam brushes come in multiple sizes.
>>
>> My last two times through Rockler's cashier, I was offered a glue brush.
>> The first time I asked hesitantly, "are they free?" and it was explained
>> that they were $4.99 (IIRC). I passed. I later realized that they were
>> too small for most of my purposes anyway. The markup on those must be
>> outstanding...same as the bench cookies. Next thing you know, Harbor
>> Freight and Rockler may join forces.
>>
>> I think it would make the store Alot more exciting if they were a little
>> bit more like a woodworking school. If they offer the right things I'll
>> spend, but I'm not talking about a glue brush or a bench cookie! I'm
>> not interested in turning a pen either! : ) Some visitors seem to
>> enjoy seeing the carvers there on Saturday morning--I've seen them ask.
>
>
> Here is my post, rewritten:
>
>
> Besides being cheap, foam brushes come in multiple sizes.
>
> My last two times through Rockler's cashier, I was offered a glue brush.
> The first time I asked hesitantly, "are they free?" and it was explained
> that they were $4.99 (IIRC). I passed. I later realized that they were
> too small for most of my purposes anyway.
>
> The markup on those must be outstanding...same as the bench cookies.
> Next thing you know, Harbor Freight and Rockler may join forces.

Ok, Outstanding is still not the right word. :~) Nothing outstanding
about an ordinary practice that has been used for many many years.

Perhaps, mark up on those "glue brushes" must be more than on a TS.

And still I wonder why you chose to bring that up? Don't go near a
jewelery store. ;~)