Hey chemists in the group,
I've been trying to track down some 26% ammonia for some fuming. I've
tried to find it through blueprinting supply houses with no luck at
all. Apparently the digital revolution is sending blueprinting the way
of the dodo. I've also surfed the 'net for chemical supply house. I
have found many different "flavors" but I can't figure out which flavor
is appropriate and some look very scary. Can anyone post a link that
would take me directly to a product page that has ammonia that is
appropriate for fuming? I would be very grateful for any help on this.
Paul
[email protected] wrote:
> Hey chemists in the group,
>
> I've been trying to track down some 26% ammonia for some fuming. I've
> tried to find it through blueprinting supply houses with no luck at
> all. Apparently the digital revolution is sending blueprinting the way
> of the dodo. I've also surfed the 'net for chemical supply house. I
> have found many different "flavors" but I can't figure out which flavor
> is appropriate and some look very scary. Can anyone post a link that
> would take me directly to a product page that has ammonia that is
> appropriate for fuming? I would be very grateful for any help on this.
>
> Paul
Sorry this isn't an actual response but I think this will help.
Ask you're local high school chemestry teacher. Let them know what you
are doing and what you are looking for and they should be able to tell
you the "Industry name" and maybe even point you to a supply house.
Hope that helps,
Tom P.
[email protected] wrote:
> Hey chemists in the group,
>
> I've been trying to track down some 26% ammonia for some fuming. I've
> tried to find it through blueprinting supply houses with no luck at
> all. Apparently the digital revolution is sending blueprinting the way
> of the dodo. I've also surfed the 'net for chemical supply house. I
> have found many different "flavors" but I can't figure out which flavor
> is appropriate and some look very scary. Can anyone post a link that
> would take me directly to a product page that has ammonia that is
> appropriate for fuming? I would be very grateful for any help on this.
>
> Paul
This'll hook you up, Paul.
http://shop2.chemassociates.com/shopsite/Chemassoc2/PAS-ammoniumhydroxide.html#2013
What you want is the Ammonium Hydroxide, Lab, Glass Bottle, 1L - Single
Unit
$12.65.
Like the others said, however, this is dangerous stuff. And a normal
OV respirator, like you wear when working with lacquer, etc. won't do a
thing to protect you from these fumes. If you're going to use this
stuff, you *must* have your fuming chamber outside.
I've used it myself, however, and love it.
[email protected] wrote:
> Hey chemists in the group,
>
> I've been trying to track down some 26% ammonia for some fuming. I've
> tried to find it through blueprinting supply houses with no luck at
I did some experiments last year (but never put them on my page). I
used both blueprint ammonia and grocery store ammonia (lemon scented!)
The results over 24 hours were just about the same. The household
stuff didn't darken anymore past 24 hours whereas the blueprint stuff
turned the wood black.
Go with the household stuff, it will work just fine unless you're
looking to turn your pieces black.
Thanks for all the timely replies to my question.
Wood_news, I really appreciate the link, that is exactly what I was
looking for.
For all who expressed concern, I will definitely be fuming outside with
the appropriate mask, goggles, gloves, etc. I will do a follow up post
with the results of my efforts.
Paul
[email protected] wrote:
> Thanks for all the timely replies to my question.
>
> Wood_news, I really appreciate the link, that is exactly what I was
> looking for.
>
> For all who expressed concern, I will definitely be fuming outside with
> the appropriate mask, goggles, gloves, etc. I will do a follow up post
> with the results of my efforts.
>
> Paul
Actually, I did start it - I just never finished it. Here's the page:
http://musial.ws/ammonia_experiment.htm
The stronger ammonia darkened the wood quicker (first batch was 7
hours) but they caught up to each other after 12 hours and stayed even
until 24. After 24, the household never got darker but the blueprint
kept darkening until it turned black.
Here's the other page for a general overview on fuming.
http://musial.ws/fuming.htm
Michael P. Hunter wrote:
> Try hospital supply houses, laboratory supply houses, or, if you are in a
> rural setting, try to purchase some anhydrous ammonia from a farmer or farm
> supply
How would you use anhydrous ammonia? It's only a liquid at very high
pressure (roughly 200 PSI at 100* F). The instant it reaches normal
atmospheric pressure it boils.
Stoutman wrote:
> > How would you use anhydrous ammonia?
>
> Easy. Put the furniture you are fuming in a sealed bag. Create an inlet
> and an outlet. Pipe in the NH3(g) for a few seconds to purge out most of
> the air and then close the inlet and outlet. The atmosphere inside the bag
> will be mostly NH3(g).
Or just use the stuff from the grocery store and don't worry about the
DEA or EPA visitng you.
Duke of Burl wrote:
> Stoutman wrote:
> > > How would you use anhydrous ammonia?
> >
> > Easy. Put the furniture you are fuming in a sealed bag. Create an inlet
> > and an outlet. Pipe in the NH3(g) for a few seconds to purge out most of
> > the air and then close the inlet and outlet. The atmosphere inside the bag
> > will be mostly NH3(g).
>
>
> Or just use the stuff from the grocery store and don't worry about the
> DEA or EPA visitng you.
And these days, the ATF and FBI too!
[email protected] wrote:
> Thanks for all the timely replies to my question.
>
> Wood_news, I really appreciate the link, that is exactly what I was
> looking for.
>
> For all who expressed concern, I will definitely be fuming outside with
> the appropriate mask, goggles, gloves, etc. I will do a follow up post
> with the results of my efforts.
>
> Paul
Paul-
Even if you are fuming outside, you still need to be cognizant of your
neighbors. Personally I'd have a water hose nearby, and on /
pressurized, for immediate use for a spill. The water will contain the
fumes/liquid and prevent further damage.
My background is ChemEng/Chem- not one of the nastiest chemicals to
work with but definately up there.
Now adays, given the terror mood, you may find it more difficult to
obtain. It's a common precursor for some explosives.
Jason
"Doug Miller" wrote in message
> Bear in mind that ammonia fuming was discovered by observing what happens
to
> white oak in livestock stalls... I'm pretty sure that horse and cow piss
isn't
> anywhere near 26% ammonia.
If you've ever cleaned horse stalls, particularly one that hasn't been
cleaned in a while, you'll be ready to swear it is.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 8/13/06
In article <[email protected]>, Tom Banes <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 17 Aug 2006 09:51:15 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>
>>Hey chemists in the group,
>>
>>I've been trying to track down some 26% ammonia for some fuming.
>
><<<<<<<<<<<SNIP>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
>I've had good luck fuming cherry and oak with the janitor grade stuff
>you can get at most hardware stores. It's about 8%, so it probably
>takes a longer and a bit more in the containers in your fuming tank
>than 26%, but it works. It's also a BUNCH safer.
Yep. Even household ammonia from the grocery store works. It just takes
longer.
Bear in mind that ammonia fuming was discovered by observing what happens to
white oak in livestock stalls... I'm pretty sure that horse and cow piss isn't
anywhere near 26% ammonia.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
> How would you use anhydrous ammonia?
Easy. Put the furniture you are fuming in a sealed bag. Create an inlet
and an outlet. Pipe in the NH3(g) for a few seconds to purge out most of
the air and then close the inlet and outlet. The atmosphere inside the bag
will be mostly NH3(g).
>It's only a liquid at very high pressure (roughly 200 PSI at 100* F). The
>instant it reaches normal
> atmospheric pressure it boils.
It's also a liquid at -34 oC.
Why do you have to have a liquid? You can also use NH3(g).
--
Stoutman
http://www.garagewoodworks.com
Try hospital supply houses, laboratory supply houses, or, if you are in a
rural setting, try to purchase some anhydrous ammonia from a farmer or farm
supply
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hey chemists in the group,
>
> I've been trying to track down some 26% ammonia for some fuming. I've
> tried to find it through blueprinting supply houses with no luck at
> all. Apparently the digital revolution is sending blueprinting the way
> of the dodo. I've also surfed the 'net for chemical supply house. I
> have found many different "flavors" but I can't figure out which flavor
> is appropriate and some look very scary. Can anyone post a link that
> would take me directly to a product page that has ammonia that is
> appropriate for fuming? I would be very grateful for any help on this.
>
> Paul
>
On 17 Aug 2006 09:51:15 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>Hey chemists in the group,
>
>I've been trying to track down some 26% ammonia for some fuming.
<<<<<<<<<<<SNIP>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I've had good luck fuming cherry and oak with the janitor grade stuff
you can get at most hardware stores. It's about 8%, so it probably
takes a longer and a bit more in the containers in your fuming tank
than 26%, but it works. It's also a BUNCH safer. High concentration
ammonia is nasty stuff to handle, so if you get it, war a good mask
and heavy rubber gloves. Do not get it on your skin, in your eyes, or
close to anything you value, as it gives off amazing amounts of
ammonia gas which is quite toxic and and will react with a lot of
common household items (cloth, metal items, etc.).
Used to be a CHE and it seems to me that the reaction is actually
occurring at the molecular level. One molecule of NH3 (ammonia gas)
does its thing on one molecule of tannic acid or cellulose. A higher
concentration of NH4OH (ammonium hydroxide, what we call liquid
ammonia) will provide more NH3 molecules to react, but it's still a
one-to-one thing, so lower concentrations will just make it take
longer to hit the same number of target molecules in your wood.
Try a scrap, time it and check it until it looks right. For my work
with cherry 24 hours - 36 hours got the result I wanted. Oak took 36 -
72 hours.
Regards.
Tom
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] wrote:
> Like the others said, however, this is dangerous stuff. And a normal
> OV respirator, like you wear when working with lacquer, etc. won't do a
> thing to protect you from these fumes. If you're going to use this
> stuff, you *must* have your fuming chamber outside.
<grin> You'll also be immediately and acutely aware of every nick,
scratch and cut on your exposed skin when working with this stuff.
As another precaution, clear the area of all children and pets - if you
have a spill, you don't want to have to worry about anyone but yourself
getting to fresh air.
--
Owen Lowe
The Fly-by-Night Copper Company
_________
There is no "W" in Leadership.