"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>
>>
>> The single cheap step ladder is easier but if you need to get up high the
>> Little giant wins out.
>> Mine works well when painting a winding star well, or any stair well,
>> ;~) or getting up into a tree, one of mine will extend to 19'.
>
> Huh? What are you - crazy Leon? 19 feet? In the air? That's almost 20
> feet up man! I only get that high in a tree stand - not on any damned
> ladder. Ain't supposed to be that way. Never was.
LOL.. A buddy and I were up on our ladders, we wrestled with his 20'
extension ladder and easily put mine up 6' away. We were in an entry way
that had no ceiling until you reached the second floor ceiling. Both floors
had 10' ceilings and we were hanging "BIG GAME" trophies. He grabbed one
end of the antler and I grabbed the other and we went up one step at a time
until the mounting hole met up with the lag bolt 16' up off the floor. We
hung Moose, Elk, and a few bigger ones that I could not recognize. Thank
goodness they were basically hollow as they 60 -80 pounds each. We balked
when the customer said that he also had an elephant head to hang.
That said, he, 18 years my senior had no problem shooting up his 40'
extension ladder while I stood at the bottom making sure the bottom did not
slide out from under him. Now that is one hard ladder to raise.
"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
> Today, when I make a retail transaction and hand the clerk, excuse me,
> they call them "associates" don't they, an odd amount so I will not
> get a handful of change back, I get the strangest looks.
LOL ... The tab is $1.96 ... you give the clerk two dollar bills and a
penny, and they look at you like "What the hell do I do now?"
> It is only when they enter the amount in the register that there is
> any recognition of what just happened.
As long as we have electricity, who needs money?
... just returning from the post office where I paid $1.14 in postage with
my handy dandy debit/check card and thus don't have to deal with a pocket
full of "change" ... plus I've forgotten what real money looks like.
(Actually, I did see an American coin the other day I had to look twice at
to tell what it was ... never thought I'd see the day).
There is also one other MAJOR benefit to plastic, particularly if there is a
preponderence of females in the house ... no "real" money in your pockets to
"borrow".
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 9/30/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)
Fri, Oct 12, 2007, 12:05pm (EDT-1) [email protected] (Swingman) doth
sayeth:
LOL ... The tab is $1.96 ... you give the clerk two dollar bills and a
penny, and they look at you like "What the hell do I do now?" <snip>
Yep, I do that once in awhile too. But, more often I just give
them bills. Not to keep from confusing them. To save. I don't spend
coin change while I'm out, just keep it. Some days I come back with
maybe 30 cents in change, some days several dollars worth. When I get
home, put in plastic coin counter tubes. Tip, don't buy paper coin
rolls, my bank gives them for free. Plastic tubes full, roll coins,
turn in periodically. I've turned in as much as $75 a month doing this.
Painless way to save.
Got two-three dollars too much change one time. Told the girl
she'd made a mistake. Snotty reply "she" doesn't make mistakes. Tried
twice more, same. So drove off with the extra, with no regret.
JOAT
"I'm an Igor, thur. We don't athk quethtionth."
"Really? Why not?"
"I don't know, thur. I didn't athk."
"Robatoy" wrote
> A ton is as heavy as a tonne, as far as I am concerned, and the whole
> world should switch over to smidgens and tiches.
While I much prefer RCH's and gnats asses, I do occasionally use the metric
side of a ruler when I can't extrapolate the precision I want with the inch
side ... but remembering which mark it was ten minutes later can be a big
problem.
And, I have gotten real good at converting fractions to decimal equivalents
for entry in my CAD program, mainly because it's easier to enter distances
for that particular software that way as it is "default", and I can't ever
remember from one boot to the next how to change "default".
(There's a common thread, but I can't remember what it was ...)
But, I fondly remember, and could still make immediate change in a poker
game to this day, in guinea's, sovereigns, half sovereigns, pounds, crowns,
half crowns, florins, shillings, pence, sixpence, threepence, halfpenny and
farthings ... and am saddened that they are things of the past.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 9/30/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)
In article <[email protected]>, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Not saying the reasoning is good or bad, but put the following in sequence
>by size:
>
>13, 11, 12
>
>29/64, 7/16, 9/32
>
>Most experienced mechanics know by looking at a bolt head what to reach for
>right off, but to the Saturday mechanic, it can be confusing.
With the right mindset, it doesn't have to be.
Suboptimal mindset: "Hmmm, bolt head looks like about a 9/16..." [look through
rack for 9/16 socket] "Nope, too big, guess I'd better go to 1/2..."
More effective mindset: "This socket looks about the right size for this
bolt... nope, too big, better go one size smaller."
IOW, never mind the *numbers* on the side of the socket. Just use what fits.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
On Oct 11, 6:12 pm, "Lee" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I am getting a bit fed-up with the 15/32...13/64... and the rest of the crap
> measurements we use here. Why shouldn't I go to what the rest of the world
> uses? Metric. Please no political BS. Seems like using 10's is a lot
> easier.No I'm not too old to change (62).<G>
I grew up with metric. A 10cm x 10cm Cube of water weighs a kilo and
is a litre as well. (At 4C)
Then, after I graduated high school in The Netherlands, I came to
Canada. Inches and feet and pounds and gallons..then baaaaack again to
metric.
Now I buy my meat by the pound, my gas by the litre and my solid
surface sheets 30 INCHES by 12 FEET.
Half of a quarter is an eigth. 30+ degrees C is not hot, 90 F is hot.
2 pints of beer is not a lot, a litre is.
A ton is as heavy as a tonne, as far as I am concerned, and the whole
world should switch over to smidgens and tiches.
On Oct 11, 6:12 pm, "Lee" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I am getting a bit fed-up with the 15/32...13/64... and the rest of the crap
> measurements we use here. Why shouldn't I go to what the rest of the world
> uses? Metric. Please no political BS. Seems like using 10's is a lot
> easier.No I'm not too old to change (62).<G>
Metric is to blame for 15/32" plywood -- it's the nearest
Imperial approximation of whatever some overseas plywood
factory is producing in metric, specifically 12 mm.
Imperial units math is really quite easy. To divide a
fraction by 2, simply multiply the denominator by 2.
On Oct 11, 6:12 pm, "Lee" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I am getting a bit fed-up with the 15/32...13/64... and the rest of the crap
> measurements we use here. Why shouldn't I go to what the rest of the world
> uses? Metric. Please no political BS. Seems like using 10's is a lot
> easier.No I'm not too old to change (62).<G>
I've worked with both systems, and agree that the metric system is
easier to use.
I've already got wrench and socket sets in US and metric sizes, so
that's no problem. Oh, and Whitworth too - so I'm completely covered.
But - remember the adage about not changing horses in mid-stream?
I don't want to have to buy new taps and dies in metric sizes, except
for those few I already have. Gets expensive when you add in pipe
threads - although, from what I understand, even European pipe sizes
are inch-based.
I don't want to have to buy new brace bits, Forstner bits and brad
point bits in metric sizes to fit metric dowels, plugs and bolts.
Metal bits? I've already got #1-80, A-Z, fractional through 1" and
some larger. Pretty good range of sizes, so all I have to do is
convert from the chart for metric tap drills. But that won't work for
things like dowel pins - so I guess I'd need sets of metric reamers as
well as the drills.
Fence markings on my table saw would be fairly easy to replace. But
the feedscrews and leadscrews on my lathe and milling machine are
another matter. Same with the lathe change gears.
When I buy plywood or wallboard for house repairs, it's nice to buy
sizes that fit those 12", 16" or 24" center spacings for joists, studs
and rafters. Sure would be a PITA to have to trim metric sized sheets
to fit. Same with dimensional lumber. It sure isn't much fun to add
to old framing made with 2 x 4s that were 1-5/8" thick or 1-3/4" thick
when those today are only 1-1/2".
Same goes for metalwork. I guess if I need a piece of bar stock or
plate to replace or modify an old US sized piece I can always buy the
next larger metric size and cut it down on the mill and surface
grinder. But I'd rather not have to. Surface grinder - have to
change the feedscrews and dials on that too.
I can buy new tapes, rules, micrometers, calipers, 1-2-3 blocks, etc.
But, again, I'd rather not have to.
New dado blades, milling cutters, etc. The investment grows.
Maybe we should go all the way and change away from our archaic units
of time, angle measurement, and so on. Put everything on base 10
systems. No more of this 24/7 stuff.
Yeah, it's a better system. It is easier. Use it all you want. Just
pray that it doesn't become mandatory here in your lifetime - or mine.
John Martin
On Oct 12, 2:01 am, "Leif Thorvaldson" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> ======>Relax, guys! When the dems win the presidency and have the congress,
> all will finally be well!*G*
>
Yea, they'll do as good a job as they did winning Congress last mid-
terms.
(Nice troll, btw.)
On Oct 12, 2:12 am, Peter Huebner <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Of course I can appreciate that using fractions acts like a kind of mental
> aerobics to keep the grey matter working.
>
Well, that's another matter. Simple fractions are not that hard and
after one double-checks the calculations/measurements, both systems
are easy to use..IF.. you use them all the time.
On Oct 12, 6:06 am, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Ask the companies that have not been able to sell their products and
> machines overseas because the other countries want metric. It may not
> affect you, but it certainly does affect some people. If you don't want to
> participate in a world economy, you don't have to.
Some nations think they ARE the World Economy.
On Oct 12, 8:30 am, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Lee" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
> >I am getting a bit fed-up with the 15/32...13/64... and the rest of the
> >crap measurements we use here. Why shouldn't I go to what the rest of the
> >world uses? Metric. Please no political BS. Seems like using 10's is a lot
> >easier.No I'm not too old to change (62).<G>
>
> IMHO it all sounds the same. Was that 250 Millimeters, Centimeters, etc.?
>
> What is wrong with fractions?
> What do you get when you subtract 374 mm from 47 cm? What is half of 383
> mm?
>
> IMHO metric is simply a different distance but no easier.
That's pretty much how I see it too. The 'metric' generation can't
make change at a cash register without a calculator, and that money
has been metric forever.
My daughters are all totally metric, as I once was. But still, when
they were talking about a 1 metre high hedge, I had to convert to
about 3 feet before I had a concept of the heigth of that hedge.
3 Feet is about 'that' high...one metre?? WTF?
On Oct 12, 9:17 am, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Have no fear ... Big Al just hasn't got around to making a documentary about
> it yet. His next project, the "Inconvenient Inch", is in the works.
>
I'm not going near the topic of Big Al with a 3.048 metre pole.
On Oct 12, 8:28 am, "Mason Pan" <[email protected]> wrote:
> In plywood business ,four by eight feet is 1220X2440 mm in metric system .
> We sell 1220x2440 or 1250x2500 mm plywood / film faced plywood to Europe ,
> USA and other countries .
>
> --
> Mason Pan
Isn't that wonderful. You have to manufacture and stock two different
sizes, different by only a couple of inches. Not very efficient, is
it?
When one or the other wins out - as will inevitably happen - which
will it be? Pick one.
Will it be the 1220x2440? I'll be happy, because it will fit right on
over my 12", 16" or 24" OC studs, joists or rafters. But it won't
quite span the gaps of building done to metric standards. And working
in metric units with odd numbers like 1220 and 2440 and their
multiples and divisibles isn't much easier than working with inches,
feet and fractions.
Will it be the 1250x2500? Easier to work with the numbers, and it
will fit metric-built existing structures. But I'll have to trim
every piece to get it to fit, won't I?
Wonderful.
John Martin
On Oct 12, 11:47 am, B A R R Y <[email protected]> wrote:
> Lee wrote:
> > I am getting a bit fed-up with the 15/32...13/64... and the rest of the crap
> > measurements we use here. Why shouldn't I go to what the rest of the world
> > uses? Metric. Please no political BS. Seems like using 10's is a lot
> > easier.No I'm not too old to change (62).<G>
>
> Liquid measurements, as well.
>
> I'd much rather deal with (milli)litres, rather than fractions of
> ounces, when mixing finishes.
Archh yes, laddy, 'bout a dram of scotch?
On Oct 12, 1:05 pm, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> There is also one other MAJOR benefit to plastic, particularly if there is a
> preponderence of females in the house ... no "real" money in your pockets to
> "borrow".
>
HA!
"'Bout them jeans, DAAAAD"
"Well, hon, I don't have that kinda cash on me right now..."
"Thassokay.. just use one of them cards..."
That's a knife that cuts both way...lol
On Oct 12, 1:22 pm, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Robatoy" wrote in message
> > HA!
> > "'Bout them jeans, DAAAAD"
>
> > "Well, hon, I don't have that kinda cash on me right now..."
>
> > "Thassokay.. just use one of them cards..."
>
> > That's a knife that cuts both way...lol
>
> Sounds like the voice of experience, eh? Yabbut, big difference ... one's
> entirely voluntary; and you don't reach in your pocket knowing damn well
> there _was_ a twenty in there yesterday.
>
> ... well maybe not that "big" a difference ... at the end of the month. :)
>
Here in Kanuckistan, we have a 'money leak'. They're called Toonies. A
two-dollar coin.
Looks like 'just change'
"Dad, can I have this change?"
"Sure, kiddo."
Next thing you know, you're out 16 bucks.
On Oct 11, 5:12 pm, "Lee" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I am getting a bit fed-up with the 15/32...13/64... and the rest of the crap
> measurements we use here. Why shouldn't I go to what the rest of the world
> uses? Metric. Please no political BS. Seems like using 10's is a lot
> easier.No I'm not too old to change (62).<G>
Ever since I bought this:
http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=5412
I've had no trouble with all those thirtysecondses and sixtyfourths.
On Oct 13, 5:25 pm, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> > More effective mindset: "This socket looks about the right size for this
> > bolt... nope, too big, better go one size smaller."
>
> > IOW, never mind the *numbers* on the side of the socket. Just use what
> > fits.
>
> Using your logic, you only need two wrenches in the toolbox, an Imperial
> adjustable and a metric adjustable. Works for me
Shit... you beat me to it.
On Oct 11, 7:47 pm, "Lee" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Your missing my point. I am talking about using metric in the current time
> for measuring...not replacing what we have now when it comes to tools
> "Nova" <[email protected]> wrote in > I will as soon as I can buy a
> 11.90625 millimeter and 5.159375
>
> > millimeter socket (respectively).
>
I don't understand your point. How are you going to work in metric
without replacing measuring tools, at the very least? You also can't
work in metric when you're drilling inch measured holes, cutting inch
measured dadoes, and so on. Those two things alone mean tool
replacement, because every dado set I've ever seen is calibrated in
fractions of an inch. Drilling a 3/4" hole in a 30 cm x 40 cm board
works fine, until...how close is the nearest edge to the edge of the
hole and how close does it need to be? I got hold of the Craftsman
version of the currently touted Triton/Grizzly planer/moulder a couple
of years ago, and almost went nuts trying to work to metric
measurements for the base board, while using standard plywood. I don't
have metric measuring tools; rather, I don't have them where they are
accessible for instant (or within the week) use.
I expect to die the same way.
It just gets overly complicated to swing both ways (unless you're a
politician). And just think what it would do to male porn stars...no,
wait, they'd probably love it.
On Oct 13, 5:44 pm, [email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:>On Oct 13, 5:25 pm, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> "Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> >> > More effective mindset: "This socket looks about the right size for this
> >> > bolt... nope, too big, better go one size smaller."
>
> >> > IOW, never mind the *numbers* on the side of the socket. Just use what
> >> > fits.
>
> >> Using your logic, you only need two wrenches in the toolbox, an Imperial
> >> adjustable and a metric adjustable. Works for me
>
> >Shit... you beat me to it.
>
> Shifted nyms, I see.
>
> <plonk> again.
>
I wasn't talking to you, asshole!
On Oct 13, 7:26 pm, [email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> >> Did I *really* need to specify "repeat as needed until the proper size is
> >> found"?? I thought that went without saying, but apparently I was
> >> mistaken.
>
> >It was a JOKE. Yes, we understood and yes, you are correct.
>
> Ok, sorry, Ed, my sense of humor has been malfunctioning all week.
You don't HAVE a sense of humour! <------see? NOW I am talking to you.
Get it straight, you sad sack, you!
On Oct 14, 7:06 pm, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "willshak" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> > If metric ever comes to this country (US), we should dress up as Amerinds
> > and toss the whole lot into the harbor. :-)
>
> Better get dressed. Metric has been here for decades and is becoming more
> prominent all the time.
What metric really is, is a transfer from design lab to fabrication
floor.
If the boys designed it in mm, they expect the quotes and subsequent
samples to be all metric.
It is not some kind of secret language, as you know, but a preferred
method to some. Not all. Some.
It is the close-minded "it's the USA-thereore BEST" crowd that hinders
flexibility and advancements in adaptation to world markets. IOW...
arrogance. Like Doug Miller.
On Oct 14, 7:55 pm, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Oct 14, 7:06 pm, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > "willshak" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> > > If metric ever comes to this country (US), we should dress up as Amerinds
> > > and toss the whole lot into the harbor. :-)
>
> > Better get dressed. Metric has been here for decades and is becoming more
> > prominent all the time.
>
> What metric really is, is a transfer from design lab to fabrication
> floor.
> If the boys designed it in mm, they expect the quotes and subsequent
> samples to be all metric.
> It is not some kind of secret language, as you know, but a preferred
> method to some. Not all. Some.
>
> It is the close-minded "it's the USA-thereore BEST" crowd that hinders
> flexibility and advancements in adaptation to world markets. IOW...
> arrogance. Like Doug Miller.
Uh, not quite. I seldom agree with Doug, but on this point, I wonder:
the U.S. is the world's largest customer, yet we're being told we HAVE
to accept a different measurement standard. When I want to sell an
article or a book, I'm the one facing the "have to" parts of the deal.
The customer may or may not be right, but he is the guy paying the
money.
Of course, we could all be like the hotshot CEO of Mattel who
apologized to the Chinese for not telling them that lead paint in
children's toys was a bad idea. In that case, we've become too large a
customer, so that the seller swings the cat by the tail and U.S.
buyers, on any scale, get to duck.
On Oct 14, 10:31 pm, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> I have to wonder where they will be in five, ten, fifteen years. Remember
> when the local gas station would not work on imported cars because they did
> not have the tools?
> --
As a matter of fact, no, and I worked in the place in '53 and '54 and
some of '55. Mostly SAE, but also Whitworth (Brit motorcycles mainly),
and some metric on the few VWs, MGs and Jags we saw--and we probably
saw more than most areas, along with BSAs, AJSs, Nortons, Triumphs and
similar wonders of the dying headlight/oil leaking art.
> If you think about it, imperial measurements (in 16ths and 12ths) have more
> integral divisors (2, 3, 4, 6, 8) than metric ones do (2 and 5).
this is the real strength of the old system, and why it's better for
design.
>
> Plus, the imperial units correspond better to humanscale proportions (as
> le Corbusier and othr designers discovered when they switched ou of metric).
indeed, many systems of measurement historically were based on human
measure.
On Oct 29, 3:16 am, Mekon <[email protected]> wrote:
> It has always confused me that while many Americans were vehemently
> opposed to metric, they still measure weapons in it. 9mm etc.
>
> I'm numerically dyslexic, which makes numbers hard for me anyway. I
> also have the disadvantage of going to school so that I finished here
> in Australia in 1972. This meant I was taught in imperial but those in
> the year behind me were taught in metric. So now I have both in my head
> arguing with each other.
>
> On the whole though, with my particular disability metric is easier.
>
> Mekon
Miller won't admit to such trivial weapons as the 105 mm and 20 mm
canons, he just wants you to be wrong..
On Oct 29, 10:56 am, [email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, v wrote:
> >It has always confused me that while many Americans were vehemently
> >opposed to metric, they still measure weapons in it. 9mm etc.
>
> Acually, for the most part, we don't. Most rifle and pistol calibers in the
> U.S. are measured in decimal inches, e.g. .22, .308, .243, .357, etc.
>
> And we still use the old Imperial gauge sizes for shotguns. (The .410 being an
> exception, but that's decimal inches again.)
>
> --
> Regards,
> Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
>
> It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
Come on, Doug. You know damn well that the only pistol worth having
is a nine. And that you have to hold it sideways.
John Martin
In article <[email protected]>, Leon
<[email protected]> wrote:
> "Mortimer Schnerd, RN" <mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > HeyBub wrote:
> >> Look, MKS (Meter/Kilogram/Second) is okay for science and whatnot, but it
> >> just doesn't work for human use.
> >
> >
> >
> > But it could. The conversion is what's difficult. When gasoline is sold
> > by the liter, who gives a shit about the gallon? We'd see one gas station
> > selling gas for 64 cents per liter and the station on the other side of
> > the street is selling it for 69 cents, how tough is it to figure out? We
> > will figure out that our cars can go 500 km on a tank, which will hold
> > maybe 60 liters. It won't take all that long to become comfortable with
> > it. If Europe was able to manage it, why the hell couldn't we? Aren't we
> > smart enough?
>
>
> I think we are smart enough. I think the rest of the world uses metric
> because they need something that they think is simpler. Is the rest of the
> world smart enough to use inches?
"The metric system is the tool of the devil! My car gets forty rods to
the hogshead and that's the way I likes it." - Abe Simpson
--
Help improve usenet. Kill-file Google Groups.
http://improve-usenet.org/
"Lee" wrote:
> I am getting a bit fed-up with the 15/32...13/64... and the rest of
the crap
> measurements we use here. Why shouldn't I go to what the rest of the
world
> uses? Metric. Please no political BS. Seems like using 10's is a lot
> easier.No I'm not too old to change (62).<G>
Time is on the side of metric.
40 years ago when the metric change was proposed, the investment in
tooling, supplies, supporting infrastructure in the USA was
tremendous.
Today a lot of that investment has become obsolete or consumed.
The change today would be easier, tomorrow easier yet.
Lew
on 10/11/2007 6:12 PM Lee said the following:
> I am getting a bit fed-up with the 15/32...13/64... and the rest of the crap
> measurements we use here. Why shouldn't I go to what the rest of the world
> uses? Metric. Please no political BS. Seems like using 10's is a lot
> easier.No I'm not too old to change (62).<G>
I'm with you. My math is a lot better with 10s, 100s, and 1000s, than
cups, pints, ounces, quarts, gallons, inches, feet, yards, etc.
My kids were learning metric in school 40 years ago in anticipation of a
change that never happened.
Like Professional Soccer, which never gained a hold, despite stars like
Pele.
What makes it worse is that some here in the US are using metric, like
in the scientific world.
I think the main reason not to change is to maintain a link with the UK.
I know that a meter is about 39 inches, but that's about it.
I'm tired of having to possess both SAE and metric tools to work on my
cars. Even foreign cars built here in the US have metric bolts, nuts,
and screws.
Keep the Fahrenheit scale tho.
I'm 70, but I can change.
--
Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @
on 10/11/2007 7:33 PM Lew Hodgett said the following:
> "Lee" wrote:
>
>
>> I am getting a bit fed-up with the 15/32...13/64... and the rest of
>>
> the crap
>
>> measurements we use here. Why shouldn't I go to what the rest of the
>>
> world
>
>> uses? Metric. Please no political BS. Seems like using 10's is a lot
>> easier.No I'm not too old to change (62).<G>
>>
>
> Time is on the side of metric.
>
> 40 years ago when the metric change was proposed, the investment in
> tooling, supplies, supporting infrastructure in the USA was
> tremendous.
>
Yes, and those companies that made tools, now could sell twice as many
tools than if there was only one measurement.
"A set of SAE wrenches and a set of Metric wrenches, please."
> Today a lot of that investment has become obsolete or consumed.
>
> The change today would be easier, tomorrow easier yet.
>
> Lew
>
>
>
--
Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @
Lee wrote:
> I am getting a bit fed-up with the 15/32...13/64... and the rest of
> the crap measurements we use here. Why shouldn't I go to what the
> rest of the world uses? Metric. Please no political BS. Seems like
> using 10's is a lot easier.No I'm not too old to change (62).<G>
What with China making all the tools, we're slowly indoctrinating them into
the Imperial system. Then all the stuff that goes to Europe, etc., will be
in FPS measurements and all will come back to that which has worked so well.
Look, MKS (Meter/Kilogram/Second) is okay for science and whatnot, but it
just doesn't work for human use.
"A pint's a pound the world around" and it will be again.
"Morris Dovey" wrote:
> The first customer was in Sweden so I figured it'd be
> cool to go metric...
<snip a list of US v metric price comparisons>
> Added up the costs I /did/ know at that point, shrugged a last time,
> and picked up the phone to order everything in inches.
> Would you have done differently?
I would have given the customer a choice along with the respective
prices.
It becomes his choice.
He may have some very good reasons for needing metric.
Lew
"John Martin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Oct 11, 6:12 pm, "Lee" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> I am getting a bit fed-up with the 15/32...13/64... and the rest of the
>> crap
>> measurements we use here. Why shouldn't I go to what the rest of the
>> world
>> uses? Metric. Please no political BS. Seems like using 10's is a lot
>> easier.No I'm not too old to change (62).<G>
>
> I've worked with both systems, and agree that the metric system is
> easier to use.
>
> I've already got wrench and socket sets in US and metric sizes, so
> that's no problem. Oh, and Whitworth too - so I'm completely covered.
>
> But - remember the adage about not changing horses in mid-stream?
>
> I don't want to have to buy new taps and dies in metric sizes, except
> for those few I already have. Gets expensive when you add in pipe
> threads - although, from what I understand, even European pipe sizes
> are inch-based.
>
> I don't want to have to buy new brace bits, Forstner bits and brad
> point bits in metric sizes to fit metric dowels, plugs and bolts.
>
> Metal bits? I've already got #1-80, A-Z, fractional through 1" and
> some larger. Pretty good range of sizes, so all I have to do is
> convert from the chart for metric tap drills. But that won't work for
> things like dowel pins - so I guess I'd need sets of metric reamers as
> well as the drills.
>
> Fence markings on my table saw would be fairly easy to replace. But
> the feedscrews and leadscrews on my lathe and milling machine are
> another matter. Same with the lathe change gears.
>
> When I buy plywood or wallboard for house repairs, it's nice to buy
> sizes that fit those 12", 16" or 24" center spacings for joists, studs
> and rafters. Sure would be a PITA to have to trim metric sized sheets
> to fit. Same with dimensional lumber. It sure isn't much fun to add
> to old framing made with 2 x 4s that were 1-5/8" thick or 1-3/4" thick
> when those today are only 1-1/2".
>
> Same goes for metalwork. I guess if I need a piece of bar stock or
> plate to replace or modify an old US sized piece I can always buy the
> next larger metric size and cut it down on the mill and surface
> grinder. But I'd rather not have to. Surface grinder - have to
> change the feedscrews and dials on that too.
>
> I can buy new tapes, rules, micrometers, calipers, 1-2-3 blocks, etc.
> But, again, I'd rather not have to.
>
> New dado blades, milling cutters, etc. The investment grows.
>
> Maybe we should go all the way and change away from our archaic units
> of time, angle measurement, and so on. Put everything on base 10
> systems. No more of this 24/7 stuff.
>
> Yeah, it's a better system. It is easier. Use it all you want. Just
> pray that it doesn't become mandatory here in your lifetime - or mine.
>
> John Martin
======>Relax, guys! When the dems win the presidency and have the congress,
all will finally be well!*G*
Leif
Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:
> HeyBub wrote:
>> Look, MKS (Meter/Kilogram/Second) is okay for science and whatnot,
>> but it just doesn't work for human use.
>
>
>
> But it could. The conversion is what's difficult. When gasoline is
> sold by the liter, who gives a shit about the gallon? We'd see one
> gas station selling gas for 64 cents per liter and the station on the
> other side of the street is selling it for 69 cents, how tough is it
> to figure out? We will figure out that our cars can go 500 km on a
> tank, which will hold maybe 60 liters. It won't take all that long
> to become comfortable with it. If Europe was able to manage it, why
> the hell couldn't we? Aren't we smart enough?
We're smart enough. We're just not dumb enough.
Lee wrote:
> I am getting a bit fed-up with the 15/32...13/64... and the rest of
> the crap measurements we use here. Why shouldn't I go to what the
> rest of the world uses? Metric. Please no political BS. Seems like
> using 10's is a lot easier.No I'm not too old to change (62).<G>
Start using a $20, 6" dial caliper calibrated in 0.000" and 90 percent
of the problem dissapears.
Lew
"Robatoy" wrote:
> The 'metric' generation can't
> make change at a cash register without a calculator, and that money
> has been metric forever.
As someone who was taught to "make change" in the 3rd grade and later
worked "retail" while in highschool, "making change" became a way of
life.
Today, when I make a retail transaction and hand the clerk, excuse me,
they call them "associates" don't they, an odd amount so I will not
get a handful of change back, I get the strangest looks.
It is only when they enter the amount in the register that there is
any recognition of what just happened.
Lew
"Swingman" wrote:
> ... just returning from the post office where I paid $1.14 in
postage with
> my handy dandy debit/check card and thus don't have to deal with a
pocket
> full of "change" ... plus I've forgotten what real money looks like.
Debit cards, the biggest screw job foisted on the public by the credit
card industry yet.
The day in hell has not yet gotten cold enough for me to have a debit
card.
Lew
Fri, Oct 12, 2007, 11:02am (EDT-3) [email protected]
(Lew=A0Hodgett) doth sayeth:
Debit cards, the biggest screw job foisted on the public by the credit
card industry yet.
The day in hell has not yet gotten cold enough for me to have a debit
card.
Not the way I see it. Granted I pay a small monthly charge for
using a debit card. But I can go to an ATM machine and check just how
much I've got in my account. If I don't have enough in my account to
buy something, I don't get it then. Pretty simple, and keeps me from
geting things I don't really need. I like my debit card.
Credit card now, another matter. With one of those, I can go into a
store flat broke, and run up a $2-3000 debt in minutes. And pay heavy
interest if I don't pay it all off when the bill comes in. I was
getting hurt on credit card interest. Got a quick bank loan, paid 'em
all off, and the bank took a fraction of the interest to do it for me.
I DO still have a credit card. For emergency use only. And I haven't
had an emergency big enough yet to even dream about using it. It'd
basically have to be a life and death emergency before I'll even
consider using a credit card again. I can go to my bank and get a $2500
signature loan, pay very low interest, and even have them make automatic
payments - so why even consider a HD or Lowes credit card if I wanted to
buy new tools, or whatever? Debit card, yes; credit card, no.
JOAT
"I'm an Igor, thur. We don't athk quethtionth."
"Really? Why not?"
"I don't know, thur. I didn't athk."
"Swingman" wrote:
> ... and just how do you figure that, old man? :)
Simple.
If you use a credit card and something goes wrong, you dispute it and
retain the use of your money while the dispute.
If your credit card gets stolen and unauthorized charges are made, it
is the credit card companies responsibility to clean it up.
If you use a debit card is used, payment is instantenous.
If something goes wrong, you are on your own.
If the debit card is stolen and they drain your account, it's your
problem.
As I said, just another way for the credit card company to screw you.
Lew
Fri, Oct 12, 2007, 1:07pm (EDT-3) [email protected]
(Lew=A0Hodgett) doth sayeth:
<snip> As I said, just another way for the credit card company to screw
you.
What's scary is, somehow it seems to make sense.
JOAT
"I'm an Igor, thur. We don't athk quethtionth."
"Really? Why not?"
"I don't know, thur. I didn't athk."
J T wrote:
> Fri, Oct 12, 2007, 1:07pm (EDT-3) [email protected]
> (Lew Hodgett) doth sayeth:
> <snip> As I said, just another way for the credit card company to screw
> you.
>
> What's scary is, somehow it seems to make sense.
If it were correct, that is...see other postings on current law...
--
{snip}
>Why shouldn't I go to what the rest of the world uses? Metric.
>{snip}
As for my Father, may he rest in peace, the conversion from the current
system to metric was an insult to his membership in the dominate culture of
the USA and his experience in WWII. He was a total flag waving, anthem
singing blue-collar union man who hated the prissy-management-class bosses.
He also hated the cronies and lickspittle of the bosses, the bankers.
Mention the conversion to Metric, and you got an hour long lecture (with
only occasional stops for breath) about communism, politicians, whores,
thieves, and worst of all, non-Protestant Irishmen (or something to do with
Orange and Ulster, I don't know as I stopped listening some 20 years before
his death.) None of his ranting was rational, logical, or supportable. But
he was still my Father.
There is a word in the dictionary for his attitude that America and its
dominate culture has a God mandated RIGHT to be correct in all things it
does and produces with only contempt for all things not USA. It is called
chauvinism. My father was an American AFL-CIO auto-worker Chauvinist.
Period. Any conversation about metric reminds me of my Father's ranting
about the evils of succumbing to the influences of Foreigners. (Foreigners
should be in bold, all caps, and underlined.)
Personally I don't care. I now have almost two tool towers and one tool
box. I have both Imperial and metric tools, plus some traditional
woodworking tools. IMHO, the story stick is where more woodworking should
be, not in arguments over tape measurement units. Remember, inches, feet,
yards and meters were imposed by the Bosses onto the workers of the world
for the convenience of the industrial revolution, factories, and
interchangeable parts.
(Oops, did I just show my unjustified, unsupported, and irrational
opinions?)
I am ONLY talking about myself and my father. I intend no smear or insult
to any others or any opinions they may hold.
Phil
"Swingman" > "Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
>
>> Simple.
>
>
> You're a bit behind times, Lew ... there are Federal laws now in effect
> protecting the consumer for debit transactions.
Anything from the feds that happens on Bush's watch is at best looked at
with a jaundiced eye.
Having had my share of exchanges with the banking industry, stick wiith a
credit card any pay if off as perscribed.
At my age, it works for me.
Lew
Robatoy wrote:
... snip
>> IMHO metric is simply a different distance but no easier.
>
> That's pretty much how I see it too. The 'metric' generation can't
> make change at a cash register without a calculator, and that money
> has been metric forever.
>
> My daughters are all totally metric, as I once was. But still, when
> they were talking about a 1 metre high hedge, I had to convert to
> about 3 feet before I had a concept of the heigth of that hedge.
> 3 Feet is about 'that' high...one metre?? WTF?
On a business trip a couple of weeks ago, we finished our meeting early
and got to spend some time touring a local attraction. One of the younger
guys in the group pointed to one of the exhibits and asked, "how many
meters high to you think that is?" My answer was, "I don't know, but in
real people units, it looks to be about 120 feet or so" (turned out to be
117 feet) when we found the appropriate plaque.
As others have said, the imperial system is geared more toward human
dimensions. A foot is pretty close to an average person's foot length, a
yard one step of one's stride, and the human body can pretty well sense 1
degree F temperature changes (are thermostats controlled by 1/2 degree C
increments on digital thermostats?). One of the early criticisms levied by
the metric crowd was the ridiculous units used as bases of measure in
imperial (3 barleycorns to an inch). The metric system was no more
rational for its basis measure; the meter being based upon the division
such that 1000 km reached from equator to North Pole. It was later
discovered that the original computation was incorrect. The meter is now
defined as a certain number of Krypton wavelengths of light -- but that is
not a whole number, nor divisible by 10.
--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough
Lee wrote:
> Thought I asked a simple question and it ended up with the "love it or
> leave
> it" crap(don't ask an American native about that :) ) and mail / credit
> cards. <big grin>
> Seems to be even anger being expressed.
> Oh well At least I got everyone thinking :)
Well, it has been a couple of years since rec.ww has had a metric thread.
Used to be one of these every couple of months. As you can see, it can
generate a few comments. :-)
--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
>
> Ask the companies that have not been able to sell their products and
> machines overseas because the other countries want metric. It may not
> affect you, but it certainly does affect some people. If you don't
> want to participate in a world economy, you don't have to.
Hmm. Saw a report today that China is creeping up on $1 trillion in exports.
Much of that to the US and all in Imperial measure. Point is, if countries
want to export to the US, it better not be metric.
Reality check: Do Japanese autos imported to the US have speedometers in
KPH?
on 10/12/2007 8:35 PM Nova said the following:
> Swingman wrote:
>> "Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
>>
>>
>>> Simple.
>>
>>
>>> If you use a debit card is used, payment is instantenous.
>>>
>>> If something goes wrong, you are on your own.
>>
>>
>> You're a bit behind times, Lew ... there are Federal laws now in effect
>> protecting the consumer for debit transactions.
>>
>>
>
> Consumer Reports.org September, 2007 article states:
>
> "Under federal law, your liability for fraudulent charges on a debit
> card can be greater than it is for a credit card. With a credit card,
> you're only responsible for up to $50 in unauthorized purchases. But
> with a debit card, you can lose up to $500 if you don't report the
> theft or loss of your card or PIN within two business days of
> discovering the problem. And if you fail to report the unauthorized
> charges within 60 days of the date of the statement that lists them,
> you could be held liable for any unauthorized withdrawals after that
> date. Those include the full value of credit lines and funds in
> savings linked to your checking account for overdraft protection."
>
> http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/money/credit-loan/debit-cards/the-dark-secrets-of-debit-9-07/overview/the-dark-secrets-of-debit-ov.htm
>
>
My bank policy is a little different
"We will reimburse you for funds transferred from your accounts up to
the amount of your loss when you notify the bank within 60 days of the
transaction first appearing on your statement."
They also send me an email whenever a Debit card or check purchase
exceeds an amount that I have set in my account on their website
(Minimum $100).
--
Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @
on 10/12/2007 11:29 PM Mark & Juanita said the following:
> Lee wrote:
>
>
>> Thought I asked a simple question and it ended up with the "love it or
>> leave
>> it" crap(don't ask an American native about that :) ) and mail / credit
>> cards. <big grin>
>> Seems to be even anger being expressed.
>> Oh well At least I got everyone thinking :)
>>
>
> Well, it has been a couple of years since rec.ww has had a metric thread.
> Used to be one of these every couple of months. As you can see, it can
> generate a few comments. :-)
>
>
If metric ever comes to this country (US), we should dress up as
Amerinds and toss the whole lot into the harbor. :-)
--
Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @
on 10/13/2007 6:52 AM charlieb said the following:
> Lee wrote:
>
>> I am getting a bit fed-up with the 15/32...13/64... and the rest of the crap
>> measurements we use here. Why shouldn't I go to what the rest of the world
>> uses? Metric. Please no political BS. Seems like using 10's is a lot
>> easier.No I'm not too old to change (62).<G>
>>
>
> Getting a Festool DOMINO forced me into metric. Thinking in metric took
> a while - 25.4 mm/inch a became one of those numbers to add to my
> instant recall list - which includes much harder to remember 7 and 10
> digit phone numbers, PIN numbers, drivers license number, license plate
> numbers etc. No big deal.
>
Lucky for you. With my CRS, I can't remember a 4 digit phone number
between looking it up in the phone book and picking up the telephone
handset.
> After a while I thought and calculated in metric when using the DOMINO.
> And calculating mainly in integers is a LOT easier than with mixed
> fractions.
> The DOMINO cuts mortises for loose/floating tenon joinery. When
> you're playing with mortise and tenons joinery, lets say for a table
> apron
> to leg joint, you want "outside faces" either flush or "set back" some
> specific distance. Working out where the center of the mortise in the
> leg should be, and where the center of the tenon, or the center of the
> mortise, in the end of the apron should be - in order to get the outside
> face flush, or set back a desired distance - can be "challenging if you
> use "imperial". MUCH easier using metric. Here's a link to a page
> that shows what I'm trying to describe.
>
> http://web.hypersurf.com/~charlie2/DOMINO/DOMINO_Reveals.html
>
> If you do ply "case work", there are several metric systems - and tools
> - to make producing parts quickly, accurately and efficiently. The
> "32 mm System" has been around for quite a while - for a reason.
>
> If you do solid wood furniture, and mill your own stock you don't need
> imperial or metric. If you need something to be "this tall" - you mark
> a stick for "this tall" and cut the needed parts "that long". If you
> need something to fit "between here and there" you use slip sticks
> to get "this wide" or "this long" and cut your parts "this wide" and
> "this long". No numbers at all required. And it's easy to find the
> centerline of a board. All that colonial furniture was done without
> measuring tapes or rulers, divided into 32nds or 64ths.
>
> I'm still using imperial, but the DOMINO is changing that.
>
> charlie b
>
--
Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @
on 10/16/2007 8:19 PM Not Gimpy Anymore said the following:
> "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>> "Lee" wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I am getting a bit fed-up with the 15/32...13/64... and the rest of
>>>
>> the crap
>>
>>> measurements we use here. Why shouldn't I go to what the rest of the
>>>
>> world
>>
>>> uses? Metric. Please no political BS. Seems like using 10's is a lot
>>> easier.No I'm not too old to change (62).<G>
>>>
>> Time is on the side of metric.
>>
>> 40 years ago when the metric change was proposed, the investment in
>> tooling, supplies, supporting infrastructure in the USA was
>> tremendous.
>>
>> Today a lot of that investment has become obsolete or consumed.
>>
>
> Yeah - dream on, McDuff - any tool investment going on today still
> has to be backwards compatible, so will continue to be English.... Seem
> to recall published details more than a year ago that said "Metrication"
> has been abandoned as not practical.
>
It's practical, just not feasible.
> 'Sides, if fractions bother so much, English dimensions can also be
> indicated in decimals - have been for AGES..... Ever read a micrometer?
>
> Lazy modern generation, anyway..... Leave 'em without a calculator
> & they can't give correct change.
>
>
>> The change today would be easier, tomorrow easier yet.
>>
>> Lew
>>
>>
>
> Sorry - this is nothing more than an emotional issue - no science to
> it at all.
> NGA
>
>
>
--
Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @
Mekon wrote:
> It has always confused me that while many Americans were vehemently
> opposed to metric, they still measure weapons in it. 9mm etc.
>
> I'm numerically dyslexic, which makes numbers hard for me anyway. I
> also have the disadvantage of going to school so that I finished here
> in Australia in 1972. This meant I was taught in imperial but those in
> the year behind me were taught in metric. So now I have both in my head
> arguing with each other.
>
> On the whole though, with my particular disability metric is easier.
>
> Mekon
I think most of those calibers were imported from Europe. Most small arms
are measured in decimal inches: 0.22-250, 0.22, .38, .357, .44, .45, .243,
etc.
--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> The single cheap step ladder is easier but if you need to get up high the
> Little giant wins out.
> Mine works well when painting a winding star well, or any stair well, ;~)
> or getting up into a tree, one of mine will extend to 19'.
Huh? What are you - crazy Leon? 19 feet? In the air? That's almost 20
feet up man! I only get that high in a tree stand - not on any damned
ladder. Ain't supposed to be that way. Never was.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Actually, one of the best ladders on the market, it has been cloned by
> all, is the Wing Little Giant is sold on infomercials and so is the Fein
> Multimaster. Infomercials are not always a sign of cheese.
>
>
Ugh!!! I hate those things. They will indeed bend into every shape known
to man, but they are such a royal pain to move around and use. Try using
one of those in all but the most open and unencumbered spaces. They're
expensive too. I've used them and gone back to regular ladders of differing
size and style.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>
>> Ugh!!! I hate those things. They will indeed bend into every shape
>> known to man, but they are such a royal pain to move around and use. Try
>> using one of those in all but the most open and unencumbered spaces.
>> They're expensive too. I've used them and gone back to regular ladders
>> of differing size and style.
An additional note here, I think you are thinking about the ones that have 4
sections that are connected by 3 hinged joints. Those truly are a PIA.
The Little Giant is really great. It telescopes on both sides and only
pivots open at 1 hinged joint similar to a regular step ladder.
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Swingman" wrote:
>
>> ... and just how do you figure that, old man? :)
>
> Simple.
>
> If you use a credit card and something goes wrong, you dispute it and
> retain the use of your money while the dispute.
>
> If your credit card gets stolen and unauthorized charges are made, it
> is the credit card companies responsibility to clean it up.
>
> If you use a debit card is used, payment is instantenous.
>
> If something goes wrong, you are on your own.
>
> If the debit card is stolen and they drain your account, it's your
> problem.
>
> As I said, just another way for the credit card company to screw you.
>
> Lew
>
Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story. Most of your statement
is completely wrong.
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Perhaps you have used one that looks similar. I have 2 of them and see
> that the local dish installers use them. They are not a pain to use as
> are the ones that are all one piece. These ladders can easily and quickly
> come apart into 3 pieces. They are very easy to use in confined spaces.
> And really, they DO NOT bend in more than 3 positions. Closed, A-frame
> and straight open, no other position is possible.
> Yes they are expensive but most any quality product is.
>
The ones that I used were really a pain, for the task at hand. I was doing
installations of in-grid ceiling sound systems and in that environment,
you're working among too many tradesmen. Electricians are there, masons and
tile guys, carpenters, painters, and more, all working in the same small
areas with all of their stuff scattered all over the place. It's a bad
working environment, but it's the way it is. These ladders were very
awkward to use since they have such a large footprint and require so much
farting around to set up and to move. A regular step ladder is so much
faster to open up, close up, move around, etc. It's much easier to move a 8
footer around in these environments and open it up than it is to set up one
of these. Granted - that 8 footer is not as versatile, but I really hated
using the little giant. The other thing that quickly became annoying was
that with not a lot of use, the latches become difficult to work. Not real
difficult, but sticky - kinda.
I know this - I can walk in with a standard 8 footer while someone else
walks in with a Little Giant, and I can get my ladder on the floor, opened
up and be up in the grid while the other person is still flipping those
latches. For me, that is more important than the versatility that the
Little Giant offers. For others, the opposite is true.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
| There are absolutely no valid reasons NOT to use metric. There are
| plenty of people afraid of change. Use it steady for a few days
| and you'll wonder why we did not change decades ago. We use it for
| our money, we use it for some beverages.
I'd like to agree, but can't. I came up with a gizmo (photos at link
below) that allows ShopBot users to zero all three axes to a jig or
workpiece in less than a minute and a bunch of guys wanted 'em for
their shops. The first customer was in Sweden so I figured it'd be
cool to go metric...
Ok - I needed aluminum bar stock at _least_ 3/8" thick (1/2" would be
better) and went to the catalog. No metric stock available - so
ordered 1/2" x 6" x 72". Shrug.
Now I needed smaller stock thicker than 1/16" and wider than 1/2".
Back to the catalog for 1/8" x 3/4" x 72". Shrug again. Told myself it
wasn't a big deal, that no one would care what the actual measurements
of these parts was, so system wasn't important.
Then I needed button head cap screws to attach the thin pieces to the
edges of the thick one. Hmm - M5 x .8 x 12 (3mm key) are $14.27/C and
#10-32 x 1/2 (1/8 key) are $7.76/C. At this point my enthusiasm for
metric was beginning to fade a bit.
So I flipped to Allen wrenches. 3 mm hex keys were listed at $11.95/C
and 1/8" hex keys were listed at $5.85/C. (I wrote 'em down)
On to spiral-flute bottoming taps - a #10-32 was listed at $8.20 and
an M5 x .8 was $13.45 - I only needed two (I've learned never to order
just one of a given tap size because that's /inviting/ Murphy to the
party.)
I already have a set of fractional, numbered, and letter size drills
(#10-32 needs a #21 drill for the tapped hole and a #9 for clearance
hole) from Harbor Fright. I turned to look up the price on a but for
an M5 tapped hole and realized that my handy char didn't provide any
info as to what size bit I needed for /any/ metric tapped hole.
Added up the costs I /did/ know at that point, shrugged a last time,
and picked up the phone to order everything in inches.
Would you have done differently?
(The software that goes with the gizmo has been written to
automatically set itself up wo work in either inches or mm at
runtime - I figured that I owed my metric friend at least that much
consideration.)
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/SuperZero.html
Lew Hodgett wrote:
| "Morris Dovey" wrote:
|
|| The first customer was in Sweden so I figured it'd be
|| cool to go metric...
|
| <snip a list of US v metric price comparisons>
|
|| Added up the costs I /did/ know at that point, shrugged a last
|| time, and picked up the phone to order everything in inches.
|
|| Would you have done differently?
|
| I would have given the customer a choice along with the respective
| prices.
|
| It becomes his choice.
|
| He may have some very good reasons for needing metric.
Perhaps, but he didn't tell me that he needed a device built with
metric components. When I asked, he told me that his machine was
normally set up to work in mm - which is what prompted me to make the
software self-adjust at runtime.
He did get one other (unasked-for) consideration: because his location
isn't far from salt water, the screws and probes that are part of the
sets are all 18-8 stainless.
It'll still do exactly the job he wants it to do.
My point to Ed is that there's a significant cost disadvantage for
Americans attempting to produce metric products in the USA.
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
| The problems you encountered were due to mixing. Metric stock is
| readily available outside the US and some places here but not very
| plentiful. If we made the switch universally, your problem would
| not exist. You made a good point as to why we should change to be
| compatible in a world economy.
"Available outside the US" doesn't do much for me here in Iowa. :-(
If we made the switch universally, I'd have to replace more stuff in
my shop than I'd be comfortable with - and I don't even want to think
about reworking all my drawings, product specifications, part program
software, and bills of materials. Even for a small operation like
mine, it'd be difficult and expensive.
| In my case, I can't buy US made machines for our industry so
| everything is metric. Simple to work with.
Hmm. [ light bulb just went on ] I could solve all my difficulties by
outsourcing everything to some place where everything is metric.
Simple indeed. <eg>
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
John Martin <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> On Oct 11, 6:12 pm, "Lee" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> I am getting a bit fed-up with the 15/32...13/64... and the rest of
>> the crap measurements we use here. Why shouldn't I go to what the
>> rest of the world uses? Metric. Please no political BS. Seems like
>> using 10's is a lot easier.No I'm not too old to change (62).<G>
>
> I've worked with both systems, and agree that the metric system is
> easier to use.
>
> I've already got wrench and socket sets in US and metric sizes, so
> that's no problem. Oh, and Whitworth too - so I'm completely covered.
>
*snip*
See, now that's the problem. We've got two ways of measuring the same
thing, and have to have seperate tools for each. I'm happy to stay with
the US system, or if we could switch over to Metric it'd sure solve a lot
of duplication problems.
No, it won't happen over night. My guess is it will take 3 or 4
generations to completely change over. There will still be a need for US
sized tools though, for machinery such as steam locomotives and old
combines that need to be worked on and not changed over for historic
preservation reasons.
Take a bit of advice from a frazzled Physics student: Unit conversions
are bad enough with one measurement system. Don't throw another one in!
Puckdropper
--
Wise is the man who attempts to answer his question before asking it.
To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm
Main problem with Al's film is the title .. S/B "an Incomplete Truth"
J. Clarke wrote:
> Robatoy wrote:
>
>>On Oct 12, 9:17 am, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Have no fear ... Big Al just hasn't got around to making a
>>>documentary about it yet. His next project, the "Inconvenient
>>>Inch",
>>>is in the works.
>>>
>>
>>I'm not going near the topic of Big Al with a 3.048 metre pole.
>
>
> Big Al's too busy destroying the credibility of the Nobel Prize
> committee to be bothered with that right now.
>
> They really should have just created a new category, the Nobel
> Slinging Bullshit Prize.
>
Lee wrote:
>
> I am getting a bit fed-up with the 15/32...13/64... and the rest of the crap
> measurements we use here. Why shouldn't I go to what the rest of the world
> uses? Metric. Please no political BS. Seems like using 10's is a lot
> easier.No I'm not too old to change (62).<G>
Getting a Festool DOMINO forced me into metric. Thinking in metric took
a while - 25.4 mm/inch a became one of those numbers to add to my
instant recall list - which includes much harder to remember 7 and 10
digit phone numbers, PIN numbers, drivers license number, license plate
numbers etc. No big deal.
After a while I thought and calculated in metric when using the DOMINO.
And calculating mainly in integers is a LOT easier than with mixed
fractions.
The DOMINO cuts mortises for loose/floating tenon joinery. When
you're playing with mortise and tenons joinery, lets say for a table
apron
to leg joint, you want "outside faces" either flush or "set back" some
specific distance. Working out where the center of the mortise in the
leg should be, and where the center of the tenon, or the center of the
mortise, in the end of the apron should be - in order to get the outside
face flush, or set back a desired distance - can be "challenging if you
use "imperial". MUCH easier using metric. Here's a link to a page
that shows what I'm trying to describe.
http://web.hypersurf.com/~charlie2/DOMINO/DOMINO_Reveals.html
If you do ply "case work", there are several metric systems - and tools
- to make producing parts quickly, accurately and efficiently. The
"32 mm System" has been around for quite a while - for a reason.
If you do solid wood furniture, and mill your own stock you don't need
imperial or metric. If you need something to be "this tall" - you mark
a stick for "this tall" and cut the needed parts "that long". If you
need something to fit "between here and there" you use slip sticks
to get "this wide" or "this long" and cut your parts "this wide" and
"this long". No numbers at all required. And it's easy to find the
centerline of a board. All that colonial furniture was done without
measuring tapes or rulers, divided into 32nds or 64ths.
I'm still using imperial, but the DOMINO is changing that.
charlie b
"HeyBub" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
*snip*
>
> Reality check: Do Japanese autos imported to the US have speedometers
> in KPH?
>
My Japanese-made Prius switches when you press the button. The good
stuff from Japan (Nintendo and Toyota are my primary reference points) do
an excellent job of making the fact they use different measurements
transparent.
Puckdropper
--
Wise is the man who attempts to answer his question before asking it.
To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm
Han <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
*snip*
>
>
> Let's keep things in perspective.
>
> 1 liter lead-free gas (Euro 95) costs about Euro 1,35 in Wageningen,
> the Netherlands
>
> 1 Euro = US $1.418 as of 10/14/07
> 1 gallon (US, liquid) = 3.78 liter
>
> So lead-free gas (Euro 95) costs:
> 3.78*1.418*1.35= US $7.24/gallon
> Near here in New Jersey, a cheap station (Woroco) sells unleaded
> regular for $2.45/gallon
>
> Happy driving in Europe!
>
What's the change in price over the last 5 years been in Europe?
Puckdropper
--
Wise is the man who attempts to answer his question before asking it.
To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm
"Not Gimpy Anymore" <[email protected]> wrote in news:cycRi.35258
[email protected]:
*snip*
>
> Lazy modern generation, anyway..... Leave 'em without a calculator
> & they can't give correct change.
>
You know, I once had a person use a calculator to give me change... and
she gave me the wrong amount! This was at the bank too!
Puckdropper
--
Wise is the man who attempts to answer his question before asking it.
To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm
Han wrote:
>
> Ralph <[email protected]> wrote in news:rppQi.10257$GO5.992@edtnps90:
>
> > dpb wrote:
> >> Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> >>> "dpb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >>>> Meanwhile, still knowing that a gallon of paint covers about 350
> >>>> sq-ft... :)
> >>>
> >>> So will 4 liters That is the same as what you get in two of those
> >>> big 67.6 ounce soda bottles. :)
> >>
> >> Wouldn't that be 3.8 l? :)
> >>
> >> --
> > Would that be an Imperial gallon or US gallon?
>
> Let's keep things in perspective.
>
> 1 liter lead-free gas (Euro 95) costs about Euro 1,35 in Wageningen, the
> Netherlands
>
> 1 Euro = US $1.418 as of 10/14/07
> 1 gallon (US, liquid) = 3.78 liter
>
> So lead-free gas (Euro 95) costs:
> 3.78*1.418*1.35= US $7.24/gallon
> Near here in New Jersey, a cheap station (Woroco) sells unleaded regular
> for $2.45/gallon
You forgot to add the three quarter of a trillion dollars YOU and I
have spent on Iraq - so far. The 3,800 lives - well how do you put
a dollar value on them? Don't know about NJ gas prices but
I just pumped $3.119 per gallon for 87 octane here in CA and a
barrel of oil was at $89 today. Was hovering around $60 a barrel
BII (Before Invading Iraq). Far as I can tell, based on the profits
statements of the major oil companies, we're paying more than
just the pump price for our gasoline. Now I know that some of
the price increase is attributable to increased demand from
China and India - but . . .
charlie b
having an imperial and metric tape measure and a digital caliper
that can be switched between decimal inches, fractional inches
and mm does make transitioning / converting.
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> And there you have it. People _want_ to. Nobody has suggested that a
> person who _wants_ to change to metric should be prohibited from doing
> so. So what are you on about?
I just like to irritate the hell out of you. I see it is working.
Hey, I never said we must change. I did said there is not a good reason
NOT to use it. You are getting all emotional as if you fear change.
Fri, Oct 12, 2007, 7:48pm (EDT+4) [email protected] (Lee) doth sayeth:
Thought I asked a simple question and it ended up with the "love it or
leave it" crap(don't ask an American native about that :) ) and mail /
credit cards. <big grin>
Seems to be even anger being expressed.
Oh well At least I got everyone thinking :)
You obviously misunderstood the question as asked.
JOAT
"I'm an Igor, thur. We don't athk quethtionth."
"Really? Why not?"
"I don't know, thur. I didn't athk."
On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 10:45:13 GMT, Han <[email protected]> wrote:
>charlieb <[email protected]> wrote in
>news:[email protected]:
>
>> You forgot to add the three quarter of a trillion dollars YOU and I
>> have spent on Iraq - so far. The 3,800 lives - well how do you put
>>
>
>much snipped.
>
>Churchill said something like democracy is the worst system on earth, but
>there is nothing better.
>
>Somebody else said that if ou repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the
>"truth"
Han... A version of that one that I use often is: "Perception becomes reality if
you can get enough people to share the perception"
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing
"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>
>>
>
> Ugh!!! I hate those things. They will indeed bend into every shape known
> to man, but they are such a royal pain to move around and use. Try using
> one of those in all but the most open and unencumbered spaces. They're
> expensive too. I've used them and gone back to regular ladders of
> differing size and style.
Perhaps you have used one that looks similar. I have 2 of them and see that
the local dish installers use them. They are not a pain to use as are the
ones that are all one piece. These ladders can easily and quickly come
apart into 3 pieces. They are very easy to use in confined spaces.
And really, they DO NOT bend in more than 3 positions. Closed, A-frame and
straight open, no other position is possible.
Yes they are expensive but most any quality product is.
On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 07:11:29 -0400, B A R R Y <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Thanks! I actually was planning a trip to check out 3M PPS cups.
>I'll look for the cups, too.
I meant STICKS! <G>
---------------------------------------------
** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------
"Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote
>>
>> Using your logic, you only need two wrenches in the toolbox, an Imperial
>> adjustable and a metric adjustable. Works for me
>>
>
> My approach is to have many wrenches.
>
> This includes both fixed size and adjustable.
>
> As well as metric, imperial, etc.
Is it too subtle? Metric ADJUSTABLE Imperial ADJUSTABLE No wonder you
guys are so reluctant to change.
On Mon, 15 Oct 2007 08:59:40 +0100, [email protected] wrote:
>I'm in England and we use imperial and metric, I also have a house in
>France where they have no comprehension of imperial lengths, weights
>or volumes.
>
>We co-exist with both; it's no big deal. My son is 20 years old and
>has only been taught metric at school and Uni, but if you ask him how
>tall and how much he weighs, he will tell you "6 3 and a half and 15
>stone" (we don't use pounds to describe body weight).
>
>Now the French being French, like to be different when it comes to
>using metric. When I've been working on my place in France with a
>French builder, he will use centimeters rather than millimeters. So a
>measurement of 65 becomes 6.5 and when I ask, "is that meters" he says
>"no it's centimeters". A 18mm thick sheet of ply becomes 1.8 thick and
>9mm (3/8") plaster board is point 9.
>
>This can become quite confusing when working together- fitting out a
>kitchen or plaster boarding a room and on top of that I'm also
>translating the language at the same time.
>
>I'd rather use metric, imperial is illogical when measuring or
>planning a structure. However, because of my age and education, I
>still can't help thinking in feet and inches initially.
>
>People will always disagree, that's just the way it is.
>
>Cheers,
>
>
>Chris
I can relate... We moved to Mexico a year ago and we're still not sure how much
gas is (I think it's about $2.25 a gallon) or which measurement to expect..
The AC and heaters are in Celsius, the cistern is in gallons, the house plans
were in feet, the windows are imperial and the screens are metric.. The stove is
in C. and the frig is in F degrees.. lol
It would be nice to have just one measurement, whichever they use..
Oh.. we're in the process of cementing the carport so my tools roll better and
the re-bar and wire were imperial and the cement mixers are in metric volume..
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing
Lee wrote:
> I am getting a bit fed-up with the 15/32...13/64... and the rest of the crap
> measurements we use here. Why shouldn't I go to what the rest of the world
> uses? Metric.
I will as soon as I can buy a 11.90625 millimeter and 5.159375
millimeter socket (respectively).
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> writes:
> If you use a credit card and something goes wrong, you dispute it and
> retain the use of your money while the dispute.
Wrong view.
Debit cards replace checks, not credit cards.
"mac davis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>>
> I prefer metric for wrenches, sockets and drill bits... beats the hell out
> of
> figuring out the fractions..
>
> If 12mm doesn't fit, go to 11 or 13 simple!
I question this oft quoted yet misapplied analogy. If you grab a 10mm
socket and it's too small what do you do? You try to figure out if it's one
size, two sizes or whatever, too small. You don't really care about 11 or
12 or 22 for that matter. Same with fractional measurements. If 1/2 does
not fit, then is it one or two or 5 sizes off? The number written on the
wrench is totally meaningless. In fact, you can intemix your metric and
your ASE sockets with equal results in attempting to find the right "bigger"
socket. It has nothing at all to do with the numbering scheme and the
numbering scheme has nothing at all to do with ease of use or anything else
except foolish attempts at bragging rights for a "superior" system.
Rubbish.
>
> As for 15/32 and such, if the plywood people would/wood go back to 3/4"
> and
> such, it wouldn't be a problem..
Preach it brotha!
>
> Related rant:
> Why can't hardwood people use nominal sizes like the rest of the lumber
> industry?
>
> I just bout 3 one foot sections of 16/16 cocobolo... why not just a
> friggin'
> 4x4"?
>
What? Blasphemy! Woodworkers the world over work hard to learn these
fractions to sound knowledgeable. And you want to reduce this secret
language to the level of the common layman? Balderdash!
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
"Robatoy" wrote in message
> HA!
> "'Bout them jeans, DAAAAD"
>
> "Well, hon, I don't have that kinda cash on me right now..."
>
> "Thassokay.. just use one of them cards..."
>
> That's a knife that cuts both way...lol
Sounds like the voice of experience, eh? Yabbut, big difference ... one's
entirely voluntary; and you don't reach in your pocket knowing damn well
there _was_ a twenty in there yesterday.
... well maybe not that "big" a difference ... at the end of the month. :)
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 9/30/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)
"B A R R Y" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Lee wrote:
>> I am getting a bit fed-up with the 15/32...13/64... and the rest of the
>> crap measurements we use here. Why shouldn't I go to what the rest of the
>> world uses? Metric. Please no political BS. Seems like using 10's is a
>> lot easier.No I'm not too old to change (62).<G>
>
> Liquid measurements, as well.
>
> I'd much rather deal with (milli)litres, rather than fractions of ounces,
> when mixing finishes.
>
>
You deal with WHAT???? Barry - we've got to talk...
Go to the automotive paint supply store and get yourself a set of paint
sticks. They will be calibrated on both sides for different ratios of mix.
Two sticks should cover all you will ever need. Need a 4:1:1 mix? Forget
about ounces. Pour the components in to the measurements on the sticks.
Wipe 'em off with solvent and put them away for the next job. It should not
take you any longer to pour mixtures to the proper ratios than to simply
pour the component parts. You're doing way too much math.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
"dpb" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
>> "dpb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> Meanwhile, still knowing that a gallon of paint covers about 350
>>> sq-ft... :)
>>
>> So will 4 liters That is the same as what you get in two of those big
>> 67.6 ounce soda bottles. :)
>
> Wouldn't that be 3.8 l? :)
>
> --
Could be, but you said "about" leaving room for either to do that 32.5
square meters.
"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>>
>
> The ones that I used were really a pain, for the task at hand. I was
> doing installations of in-grid ceiling sound systems and in that
> environment, you're working among too many tradesmen. Electricians are
> there, masons and tile guys, carpenters, painters, and more, all working
> in the same small areas with all of their stuff scattered all over the
> place. It's a bad working environment, but it's the way it is. These
> ladders were very awkward to use since they have such a large footprint
> and require so much farting around to set up and to move. A regular step
> ladder is so much faster to open up, close up, move around, etc. It's
> much easier to move a 8 footer around in these environments and open it up
> than it is to set up one of these. Granted - that 8 footer is not as
> versatile, but I really hated using the little giant. The other thing
> that quickly became annoying was that with not a lot of use, the latches
> become difficult to work. Not real difficult, but sticky - kinda.
Spray a little Endust on the latch and or extension slides.
>
> I know this - I can walk in with a standard 8 footer while someone else
> walks in with a Little Giant, and I can get my ladder on the floor, opened
> up and be up in the grid while the other person is still flipping those
> latches. For me, that is more important than the versatility that the
> Little Giant offers. For others, the opposite is true.
The single cheap step ladder is easier but if you need to get up high the
Little giant wins out.
Mine works well when painting a winding star well, or any stair well, ;~)
or getting up into a tree, one of mine will extend to 19'. Then I ended up
buying a 3' clone version for working inside a house when you need something
more than a step stool. If I had job specific applications I would do like
you and get job specific equipment. I tend to take what ever comes my way.
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> LOL ... The tab is $1.96 ... you give the clerk two dollar bills and a
> penny, and they look at you like "What the hell do I do now?"
Its a crying shame, A freind and I went into a Washington Mutual bank a few
years back. He was cashing a check and I spied a book for storing all the
state quarters. I bought the book from the "clerk"/vice president?, and the
total was $20.17. I gave him 2 tens, and a quarter, and 2 pennies. He had
to walk over to a calculator to determine that he owed me 15 cents, which he
did not. He had a great explanation, take the 2 pennies from from the 17
cents and then subtract the result from the quarter, and you get 15 cents,
which was again wrong. Another trip to te the calculator to get the same
wrong reaults and finally I explained that the formulas was correct but the
answer was wrong. His response, calculators are not wrong. My response was
the answer is wrong because you don't know how to enter the number or do
simple math in your head.
We both won, he still gave me 15 cents change and I ended up with too much
change.
Again, this was a bank employee.
In article <[email protected]>, John Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Oct 29, 10:56 am, [email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote:
>> In article <[email protected]>, v wrote:
>> >It has always confused me that while many Americans were vehemently
>> >opposed to metric, they still measure weapons in it. 9mm etc.
>>
>> Acually, for the most part, we don't. Most rifle and pistol calibers in the
>> U.S. are measured in decimal inches, e.g. .22, .308, .243, .357, etc.
>>
>> And we still use the old Imperial gauge sizes for shotguns. (The .410 being an
>> exception, but that's decimal inches again.)
>>
>Come on, Doug. You know damn well that the only pistol worth having
>is a nine. And that you have to hold it sideways.
<g> I *have* a nine. But I don't hold it sideways.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
"dpb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> I know of no company that doesn't make metric products for the export
> market if that is their target. It's a strawman argument. US automakers
> have switched, for example.
Since you don't know of them they don't exist? I know of two companies that
have not had success in Europe because they don't want to change to metric.
One no longer tries, the other is going to make the change. It may be a
strawman argument today because the auto industry finally figured out it
would be wise to change. They are still fighting right hand drive.
Your missing my point. I am talking about using metric in the current time
for measuring...not replacing what we have now when it comes to tools
"Nova" <[email protected]> wrote in > I will as soon as I can buy a
11.90625 millimeter and 5.159375
> millimeter socket (respectively).
>
> --
> Jack Novak
> Buffalo, NY - USA
> [email protected]
Thu, Oct 11, 2007, 11:47pm (EDT+4) [email protected] (Lee) doth sayeth:
Your missing my point. I am talking about using metric in the current
time for measuring...not replacing what we have now when it comes to
tools
So say you. I'd have changed years ago, but can't find a reliable
supplier of metric pencils.
JOAT
"I'm an Igor, thur. We don't athk quethtionth."
"Really? Why not?"
"I don't know, thur. I didn't athk."
> Morris Dovey <[email protected]>:
>> Then I needed button head cap screws to attach the thin pieces to the
>> edges of the thick one. Hmm - M5 x .8 x 12 (3mm key) are $14.27/C and
>> #10-32 x 1/2 (1/8 key) are $7.76/C. At this point my enthusiasm for
>> metric was beginning to fade a bit.
What you need is a new supplier. Check McMaster prices $7.16
"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" <mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> HeyBub wrote:
>> Look, MKS (Meter/Kilogram/Second) is okay for science and whatnot, but it
>> just doesn't work for human use.
>
>
>
> But it could. The conversion is what's difficult. When gasoline is sold
> by the liter, who gives a shit about the gallon? We'd see one gas station
> selling gas for 64 cents per liter and the station on the other side of
> the street is selling it for 69 cents, how tough is it to figure out? We
> will figure out that our cars can go 500 km on a tank, which will hold
> maybe 60 liters. It won't take all that long to become comfortable with
> it. If Europe was able to manage it, why the hell couldn't we? Aren't we
> smart enough?
I think we are smart enough. I think the rest of the world uses metric
because they need something that they think is simpler. Is the rest of the
world smart enough to use inches?
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "dpb" wrote in message
>
>> On ours, notification within two days of loss limits liability of loss
>> to $50. Only after 60 days does it become unlimited.
>>
>> Whether that is part of revised law or simply a particular card-issuer
>> policy, I couldn't say, but it was something I checked carefully before
>> taking it.
>
> Federal law is your above, plus ... providing notification is made
> _before_
> the debit card is fraudulently used, there is zero liability.
>
> My youngest daughter has a real DEBIT card issued by a bank and tied to
> Visa's international network, but with no bank account that backs up the
> card.
>
> It is funded solely by my funds transfers, which can be made with a
> credit/debit card, online or by phone, and which are real time
> INSTANTANEOUS
> (when she was in Europe I was able to keep her funded to _my_ comfort
> level,
> instantaneously, and without her having to carry more cash than necessary
> on
> her person ... same when attending an urban cesspool high school, or doing
> any traveling)
>
> She has had it since jr high, and she's now a senior in college.
>
> She momentarily lost it last semester, called me within a few minutes of
> realizing the loss, and I logged on and "suspended" the card within
> minutes
> of her losing it ... I could have done the same by phone.
>
> I also notified the issuing bank on their 24 hour service just to be safe
> ... their response was that their records indicated it was "suspended" and
> could not be used, but thanks for the call anyway.
>
> It was found and returned to her the next morning ...it took all of 30
> seconds for me to logon and "unsuspend" the card, no further calls were
> necessary.
>
> It has proven to be one of the handiest, most convenient, safest ways of
> insuring that she always has funds for whatever arises, from text books to
> emergency cash, 24/7, no matter what country she's in, and as long as she
> can get to a Visa merchant/ATM ... they're indeed everywhere.
>
> For the better part of nine years it has been a source of convenience and
> monetary peace of mind for me on her behalf ... I would NOT want her to
> "leave home without it".
>
Damn, that sounds good.
Any chance that you adopt me and give me one of these loving father debit
cards?
<silly grin>
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> What metric really is, is a transfer from design lab to fabrication
> floor.
> If the boys designed it in mm, they expect the quotes and subsequent
> samples to be all metric.
At work we make custom molded parts both to customer specification and our
designs to their finished product. I don't recall ever seeing a drawing
with metric dimension until sometime maybe in the mid '80s. Now more than
half are metric.
Used to be too, drawings had dimensions like 12 5/8" that later became
12.625 with the advent of drawing programs, but now it is likely to be
12.62.
I used to buy hydrauling supplies, hoses, etc from a local comapny. Whenw e
go imported machines, they could not suppoy us. They told me "if it's
metric, you're on your own" Five years later they were out of business, but
my new supplier has everything I need.
>
> It is the close-minded "it's the USA-thereore BEST" crowd that hinders
> flexibility and advancements in adaptation to world markets. IOW...
> arrogance.
I have to wonder where they will be in five, ten, fifteen years. Remember
when the local gas station would not work on imported cars because they did
not have the tools?
--
Ed
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/
ooops sorry Morris
"Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Lee wrote:
>
> | Why shouldn't I go to what the
> | rest of the world uses? Metric.
>
> No reason not to. If you do, then I'll join you as soon as I can by
> metric sized tools, bits, wood, etc at a better price than I can buy
> inch sizes...
>
> --
> Morris Dovey
> DeSoto Solar
> DeSoto, Iowa USA
> http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
>
>
"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> I question this oft quoted yet misapplied analogy. If you grab a 10mm
> socket and it's too small what do you do? You try to figure out if it's
> one size, two sizes or whatever, too small. You don't really care about
> 11 or 12 or 22 for that matter. Same with fractional measurements.
Not saying the reasoning is good or bad, but put the following in sequence
by size:
13, 11, 12
29/64, 7/16, 9/32
Most experienced mechanics know by looking at a bolt head what to reach for
right off, but to the Saturday mechanic, it can be confusing.
"dpb" wrote in message
> On ours, notification within two days of loss limits liability of loss
> to $50. Only after 60 days does it become unlimited.
>
> Whether that is part of revised law or simply a particular card-issuer
> policy, I couldn't say, but it was something I checked carefully before
> taking it.
Federal law is your above, plus ... providing notification is made _before_
the debit card is fraudulently used, there is zero liability.
My youngest daughter has a real DEBIT card issued by a bank and tied to
Visa's international network, but with no bank account that backs up the
card.
It is funded solely by my funds transfers, which can be made with a
credit/debit card, online or by phone, and which are real time INSTANTANEOUS
(when she was in Europe I was able to keep her funded to _my_ comfort level,
instantaneously, and without her having to carry more cash than necessary on
her person ... same when attending an urban cesspool high school, or doing
any traveling)
She has had it since jr high, and she's now a senior in college.
She momentarily lost it last semester, called me within a few minutes of
realizing the loss, and I logged on and "suspended" the card within minutes
of her losing it ... I could have done the same by phone.
I also notified the issuing bank on their 24 hour service just to be safe
... their response was that their records indicated it was "suspended" and
could not be used, but thanks for the call anyway.
It was found and returned to her the next morning ...it took all of 30
seconds for me to logon and "unsuspend" the card, no further calls were
necessary.
It has proven to be one of the handiest, most convenient, safest ways of
insuring that she always has funds for whatever arises, from text books to
emergency cash, 24/7, no matter what country she's in, and as long as she
can get to a Visa merchant/ATM ... they're indeed everywhere.
For the better part of nine years it has been a source of convenience and
monetary peace of mind for me on her behalf ... I would NOT want her to
"leave home without it".
IIRC, Edwin might have done the same thing for his daughter at one point.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 9/30/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>
> What with China making all the tools, we're slowly indoctrinating them into
> the Imperial system. Then all the stuff that goes to Europe, etc., will be
> in FPS measurements and all will come back to that which has worked so well.
>
> Look, MKS (Meter/Kilogram/Second) is okay for science and whatnot, but it
> just doesn't work for human use.
>
> "A pint's a pound the world around" and it will be again.
>
You got that bass ackwards. Many countries changed from imperial to metric.
When I was a kid, there were still imperial nuts and bolts and tools in use in
Germany. By the time I was a teen, they had disappeared. When I moved to New
Zealand in the early 1980ies everybody was still talking inches and feet (so I
converted) but by now I seem the only one still using inches for timber size
<grin>, everybody else uses mm -- actually I use mm as measurement for doing my
joinery, I just think to _order_ 4x1 and 6x2 etc.
Trust me, metric is a heck of a lot easier to use, and makes a lot more sense
than fractions. One look at a metric ruler next to an imperial one will
illustrate what I mean.
Of course I can appreciate that using fractions acts like a kind of mental
aerobics to keep the grey matter working.
OT (because it's metalwork) but still relevant is my experience that metric
threads work better than imperial ones. I have had a lot more trouble with
imperial screws and bolts on machinery shaking/working loose than with metric.
Coarse metric is finer and the pitch is different. Fine metric (as found on H/T
bolts for instance) is even better still in demanding applications.
-P.
--
=========================================
firstname dot lastname at gmail fullstop com
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> And the designers just seem hellbent to use every
> daggone one of them in random profusion---it's my biggest complaint
> about metric in general use although everything, even the Deere now is
> almost universally metric...
>
Not really, at least not if you go to Europe. When I still used to stick my
head under the bonnets of Fiats, VWs and whatever virtually all the bolt heads
and nuts were 10-13-17; the bolts being 6mm, 8mm and 10mm respectively - it
took the Japanese to confuse the issue and start using 12mm, 14mm and what have
you ( I presume to save on steel but I am guessing there).
-P
--
=========================================
firstname dot lastname at gmail fullstop com
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
says...
>
> Using your logic, you only need two wrenches in the toolbox, an Imperial
> adjustable and a metric adjustable. Works for me
>
I'm surprised no-one has mentioned it yet: there is a brand of spanners called
Metrinch. The name says it all. What's more, these spanners attach the centre
of the sides of the nut, rather than the edges, meaning you can also use them
on badly degraded nuts and bolts, without ripping off the corners. And they do
all sizes. My set is made in USA ;-) Father in law told me about them 25 years
ago, apparently Peugot used to include them in their toolkits way back then.
I've got a socket set and a spanner set, they're brilliant if you have to deal
with rusted farm machinery from time to time, as well as both metric and
imperial nuts and bolts constantly.
-P.
--
=========================================
firstname dot lastname at gmail fullstop com
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (Doug Miller) finally admitted:
>
> Ok, sorry, Ed, my sense of humor has been malfunctioning all week.
You don't HAVE a sense of humour. You're too busy insisting that you're
right, even when you're not...which is often.
Did you honestly think that I changed my e-mail so I could play with you?
I think you're due for an ego adjustment.
Not looking at tools etc. Looking at replacing fractional US measurements
"Morris Dovey" > No reason not to. If you do, then I'll join you as soon as
I can by
> metric sized tools, bits, wood, etc at a better price than I can buy
> inch sizes...
>
> --
> Morris Dovey
> DeSoto Solar
> DeSoto, Iowa USA
> http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
>
>
"HeyBub" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> Look, MKS (Meter/Kilogram/Second) is okay for science and whatnot, but it
> just doesn't work for human use.
>
It works in 80% of the world. It CAN work here if we want it to.
John Martin wrote:
> Will it be the 1250x2500? Easier to work with the numbers, and it
> will fit metric-built existing structures. But I'll have to trim
> every piece to get it to fit, won't I?
>
> Wonderful.
>
> John Martin
>
How are you going to handle changing out a passage door? ;-)
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]
In article <[email protected]>, "Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote
>
>> The point is, use the socket that's the right size, and never mind what
>> numbers are etched on the side of it.
>>
>
>That is a given.
>
>Since the eyes are not what they used to be, it is damn near impossible to
>read the socket size etched in the side.
LOL -- I know exactly what you mean!
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
> Simple.
> If you use a debit card is used, payment is instantenous.
>
> If something goes wrong, you are on your own.
You're a bit behind times, Lew ... there are Federal laws now in effect
protecting the consumer for debit transactions.
> If the debit card is stolen and they drain your account, it's your
> problem.
Only if you wait 60 days after the fact before reporting a "problem" ... a
highly unlikely circumstance for one, like me, who does all his banking
online and checks balances daily, or more often.
> As I said, just another way for the credit card company to screw you.
In my case, it not a credit card company that issued my bank check card,
it's my bank.
Repayment takes the same amount of time as if someone had
stolen/fraudulently cashed a check ...with the same proviso that they are
notified in a timely manner.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 9/30/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)
"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> Using your logic, you only need two wrenches in the toolbox, an Imperial
> adjustable and a metric adjustable. Works for me
>
My approach is to have many wrenches.
This includes both fixed size and adjustable.
As well as metric, imperial, etc.
But why must we replace bits, sockets, tape measures and all of our imperial
sized tools? Just to be like the rest of the world? After 39 years of
following my father around the world or bouncing around it myself ( we're
both career military) I'll tell you I don't see anything they do that
warrens changing. In the age of the internet if you want to change, order
your tools aboard but don't force your ideas on the rest of us!!!!
--
Mike
Watch for the bounce.
If ya didn't see it, ya didn't feel it.
If ya see it, it didn't go off.
Old Air Force Munitions Saying
IYAAYAS
"Mike O." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 22:12:38 GMT, "Lee" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>I am getting a bit fed-up with the 15/32...13/64... and the rest of the
>>crap
>>measurements we use here. Why shouldn't I go to what the rest of the world
>>uses? Metric. Please no political BS. Seems like using 10's is a lot
>>easier.No I'm not too old to change (62).<G>
>
> Go buy a couple of metric tape measures and have at it. I think you
> could use whatever you like. You might have to replace bits and maybe
> other things but as far as measuring goes, what difference does it
> make as long as you always use the same thing? Of course for me, all
> of the code requirements are still in inches so I'd have some
> converting to do.
>
> BTW, the scale on my Bies has both but the inch scale is on the top
> where you can almost see it under the top of the pointer. I kinda
> wish it was the other way around. I haven't spent the $15 for a
> replacement scale in inches yet but I may have to.
>
> Mike O.
"dpb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> Meanwhile, still knowing that a gallon of paint covers about 350 sq-ft...
> :)
So will 4 liters That is the same as what you get in two of those big
67.6 ounce soda bottles. :)
"charlieb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Lee wrote:
SNIP
>
> I'm still using imperial, but the DOMINO is changing that.
Yeah! the really hard part is what depth plunge setting to use. Will 15 mm
go all the way through? LOL
>
> charlie b
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> Edwin, are _you_ going to buy me a new planer, new saw fences, a full
> set of twist, brad point, and Forstner bits, new wrenches and sockets,
> new tape measures and rulers, and redimension all my drawings? If
> not, are you going to pay me the the cost of all of this? If not,
> then why should I be in favor of something that puts me out of pocket
> a quite large amount of money and confers to me no benefit that I can
> discern.
So tell me, exactly, why you need a new planer and saw fences? Mine not
only do metric, they do Witworth too.
"Leon" wrote
> I am going down later today to personally fire all of the meteorologists
in
> Houston!
> Yesterday morning at about 7:30 I was listening to the channel 2 weather
> and they were simply restating what they predicted that the weather would
> feel like, the day before.
>
> It is going to be DRY and cool.
>
> I went outside and saw a heavy layer of dew on my truck and on my son's
car
> and then I looked at the big wet spot on the drive way where the dew had
> been dripping off of the house.
Before you do, make sure it wasn't that BIG dog of yours... ! :)
> The SOB's don't care about facts!
And obviously, neither do committee's who award certain prizes. :)
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 9/30/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)
"HeyBub" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> Hmm. Saw a report today that China is creeping up on $1 trillion in
> exports. Much of that to the US and all in Imperial measure. Point is, if
> countries want to export to the US, it better not be metric.
>
> Reality check: Do Japanese autos imported to the US have speedometers in
> KPH?
I have to wonder if China is making what we want to specification easier
than other countries because many of their workers have no real experience
with either one in an industrial work, thus adapting readily? Seems that
many of the opponents are more opposed to having to adapt and learn
something new rather that solid reasons why one is better than the other.
Can that Japanese car be made cheaper if they stocked only one model of
instrument? My Buick is changed on all gauges at the push of a button.
Handy when I go to Canada.
Swingman wrote:
> "Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
>
>
>>Simple.
>
>
>>If you use a debit card is used, payment is instantenous.
>>
>>If something goes wrong, you are on your own.
>
>
> You're a bit behind times, Lew ... there are Federal laws now in effect
> protecting the consumer for debit transactions.
>
>
Consumer Reports.org September, 2007 article states:
"Under federal law, your liability for fraudulent charges on a debit
card can be greater than it is for a credit card. With a credit card,
you're only responsible for up to $50 in unauthorized purchases. But
with a debit card, you can lose up to $500 if you don't report the theft
or loss of your card or PIN within two business days of discovering the
problem. And if you fail to report the unauthorized charges within 60
days of the date of the statement that lists them, you could be held
liable for any unauthorized withdrawals after that date. Those include
the full value of credit lines and funds in savings linked to your
checking account for overdraft protection."
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/money/credit-loan/debit-cards/the-dark-secrets-of-debit-9-07/overview/the-dark-secrets-of-debit-ov.htm
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]
"Lee" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I am getting a bit fed-up with the 15/32...13/64... and the rest of the
>crap measurements we use here. Why shouldn't I go to what the rest of the
>world uses? Metric. Please no political BS. Seems like using 10's is a lot
>easier.No I'm not too old to change (62).<G>
>
IMHO it all sounds the same. Was that 250 Millimeters, Centimeters, etc.?
What is wrong with fractions?
What do you get when you subtract 374 mm from 47 cm? What is half of 383
mm?
IMHO metric is simply a different distance but no easier.
"Lee" wrote in message
> I am getting a bit fed-up with the 15/32...13/64... and the rest of the
crap
> measurements we use here. Why shouldn't I go to what the rest of the world
> uses? Metric. Please no political BS. Seems like using 10's is a lot
> easier.No I'm not too old to change (62).<G>
Have no fear ... Big Al just hasn't got around to making a documentary about
it yet. His next project, the "Inconvenient Inch", is in the works.
It will stop global warming in its tracks by making the "feels like" numbers
smaller for the idiocracy.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 9/30/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)
"Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
>
> | There are absolutely no valid reasons NOT to use metric. There are
> | plenty of people afraid of change. Use it steady for a few days
> | and you'll wonder why we did not change decades ago. We use it for
> | our money, we use it for some beverages.
>
> I'd like to agree, but can't. I came up with a gizmo (photos at link
> below) that allows ShopBot users to zero all three axes to a jig or
> workpiece in less than a minute and a bunch of guys wanted 'em for
> their shops. The first customer was in Sweden so I figured it'd be
> cool to go metric...
>
> Ok - I needed aluminum bar stock at _least_ 3/8" thick (1/2" would be
> better) and went to the catalog. No metric stock available - so
> ordered 1/2" x 6" x 72". Shrug.
The problems you encountered were due to mixing. Metric stock is readily
available outside the US and some places here but not very plentiful. If we
made the switch universally, your problem would not exist. You made a good
point as to why we should change to be compatible in a world economy.
In my case, I can't buy US made machines for our industry so everything is
metric. Simple to work with.
--
Ed
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/
Ralph <[email protected]> wrote in news:rppQi.10257$GO5.992@edtnps90:
> dpb wrote:
>> Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
>>> "dpb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> Meanwhile, still knowing that a gallon of paint covers about 350
>>>> sq-ft... :)
>>>
>>> So will 4 liters That is the same as what you get in two of those
>>> big 67.6 ounce soda bottles. :)
>>
>> Wouldn't that be 3.8 l? :)
>>
>> --
> Would that be an Imperial gallon or US gallon?
Let's keep things in perspective.
1 liter lead-free gas (Euro 95) costs about Euro 1,35 in Wageningen, the
Netherlands
1 Euro = US $1.418 as of 10/14/07
1 gallon (US, liquid) = 3.78 liter
So lead-free gas (Euro 95) costs:
3.78*1.418*1.35= US $7.24/gallon
Near here in New Jersey, a cheap station (Woroco) sells unleaded regular
for $2.45/gallon
Happy driving in Europe!
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid
On Oct 15, 4:18 pm, [email protected] (J T) wrote:
> Sun, Oct 14, 2007, 2:39pm (EDT+4) [email protected] (Han) doth sayeth:
> <snip> Near here in New Jersey, a cheap station (Woroco) sells unleaded
> regular for $2.45/gallon <snip>
>
> The down side there would be living in New Jersey.
>
Hey, be nice. I lived in Joisey for eight years one time. Oops. Make
that eight weeks.
Sun, Oct 14, 2007, 2:39pm (EDT+4) [email protected] (Han) doth sayeth:
<snip> Near here in New Jersey, a cheap station (Woroco) sells unleaded
regular for $2.45/gallon <snip>
The down side there would be living in New Jersey.
JOAT
"I'm an Igor, thur. We don't athk quethtionth."
"Really? Why not?"
"I don't know, thur. I didn't athk."
[email protected] (J T) wrote in news:2795-4713CB02-529@storefull-
3338.bay.webtv.net:
> Sun, Oct 14, 2007, 2:39pm (EDT+4) [email protected] (Han) doth sayeth:
> <snip> Near here in New Jersey, a cheap station (Woroco) sells unleaded
> regular for $2.45/gallon <snip>
>
> The down side there would be living in New Jersey.
>
>
>
> JOAT
I live in Radburn www.radburn.org.
Mohonk is about an hour away. http://www.mohonk.com/ not cheap, but I
think it is worth it.
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid
Puckdropper <[email protected]> wrote in news:4712b8d5$0$47128
[email protected]:
> fHan <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
> *snip*
>
>>
>>
>> Let's keep things in perspective.
>>
>> 1 liter lead-free gas (Euro 95) costs about Euro 1,35 in Wageningen,
>> the Netherlands
>>
>> 1 Euro = US $1.418 as of 10/14/07
>> 1 gallon (US, liquid) = 3.78 liter
>>
>> So lead-free gas (Euro 95) costs:
>> 3.78*1.418*1.35= US $7.24/gallon
>> Near here in New Jersey, a cheap station (Woroco) sells unleaded
>> regular for $2.45/gallon
>>
>> Happy driving in Europe!
>>
>
> What's the change in price over the last 5 years been in Europe?
>
> Puckdropper
Using the official exchange rate of $ vs euro, gas used to be twice as
expensive in Europe as here in Jersey. Now it is a 3-fold difference.
In part because the US$ has devalued so much. About 5 years ago, a euro
was $0.85 or so. Now it is $1.42. From the perspective of worldwide
competition, it is "good" for the US manufacturer and worker in the
export fields. Eventually, it'll be rather bad for the ordinary
consumer.
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid
charlieb <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> You forgot to add the three quarter of a trillion dollars YOU and I
> have spent on Iraq - so far. The 3,800 lives - well how do you put
>
much snipped.
Churchill said something like democracy is the worst system on earth, but
there is nothing better.
Somebody else said that if ou repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the
"truth"
As an immigrant in 1969 I have fared rather well.
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Robatoy wrote:
>
> Big Al's too busy destroying the credibility of the Nobel Prize
> committee to be bothered with that right now.
>
> They really should have just created a new category, the Nobel
> Slinging Bullshit Prize.
I wonder what factor was used to decide that a film qualified for a Peace
Prize.
Jimmy Carter and Yassar Arafat won that prize which only points out its
absurdity.
In article <[email protected]>, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Oct 13, 5:25 pm, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> "Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> > More effective mindset: "This socket looks about the right size for this
>> > bolt... nope, too big, better go one size smaller."
>>
>> > IOW, never mind the *numbers* on the side of the socket. Just use what
>> > fits.
>>
>> Using your logic, you only need two wrenches in the toolbox, an Imperial
>> adjustable and a metric adjustable. Works for me
>
>Shit... you beat me to it.
>
Shifted nyms, I see.
<plonk> again.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
Mike Dobony wrote:
> Autos need metric (with a few exceptions) and everything else of any size
> uses SAE, so they do sell both. My auto set in metric is growing.
>
I just use Metrinch http://www.mitools.com/combination/0076.php being my
current carry in the Land-Rover set!
I wrote a piece for an American engineering publication on the American
companies loosing trade as a result of sticking with 'English' imperial
and wierd American number threads, so being in England the advantage
of metric interchangability and easy calc. isn't lost on me!
In article <[email protected]>, v wrote:
>It has always confused me that while many Americans were vehemently
>opposed to metric, they still measure weapons in it. 9mm etc.
Acually, for the most part, we don't. Most rifle and pistol calibers in the
U.S. are measured in decimal inches, e.g. .22, .308, .243, .357, etc.
And we still use the old Imperial gauge sizes for shotguns. (The .410 being an
exception, but that's decimal inches again.)
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Peter Huebner wrote:
>
> According to their Web site they're made in Taiwan. Might be really
> good but selling them using infomercials has pretty well shot their
> credibility.
Actually, one of the best ladders on the market, it has been cloned by all,
is the Wing Little Giant is sold on infomercials and so is the Fein
Multimaster. Infomercials are not always a sign of cheese.
I googled them and the consensus among users seems to be
> that they actually work as advertised but have a lot of slop which
> makes wrenching in tight quarters problematical.
Probably would not fly in an automotive shop where some brands of ratchets
don't have enough clicks to be functional in tight spaces.
Lee wrote:
> Your missing my point. I am talking about using metric in the current time
> for measuring...not replacing what we have now when it comes to tools
With the crew I've been working with the last few days "Ticks" seems to
work best. ;-)
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]
"Mekon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Mike Marlow wrote on 30/10/2007 :
>> "Mekon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>> It has always confused me that while many Americans were vehemently
>>> opposed to metric, they still measure weapons in it. 9mm etc.
>>
>> Some weaponry, but far from all, or even most. Think of all of the
>> decimal calibers out there. Everything from .22 to .308 to .45 to .50.
>
> I am just surprised there are any at all given the resistance I have seen
> here and elsewhere. It always reminds me of the debate between Mac and PC
> or some sort of religious conflict.
>
> Mekon
>
Naw - not as complicated as that - more like 50 vs. 60 Hz, & which side
of the road you drive on.... Just the practical aspects of having to
overcome
social inertia of two large worlds that grew up as part of different
families....
"Robatoy" wrote in message
> On Oct 12, 9:17 am, "Swingman" wrote:
>
> >
> > Have no fear ... Big Al just hasn't got around to making a documentary
about
> > it yet. His next project, the "Inconvenient Inch", is in the works.
> >
> I'm not going near the topic of Big Al with a 3.048 metre pole.
How many hanging chads is that?
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 9/30/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Ugh!!! I hate those things. They will indeed bend into every shape
>>> known to man, but they are such a royal pain to move around and use.
>>> Try using one of those in all but the most open and unencumbered spaces.
>>> They're expensive too. I've used them and gone back to regular ladders
>>> of differing size and style.
>
>
> An additional note here, I think you are thinking about the ones that have
> 4 sections that are connected by 3 hinged joints. Those truly are a PIA.
> The Little Giant is really great. It telescopes on both sides and only
> pivots open at 1 hinged joint similar to a regular step ladder.
>
You're right about the different ladders - I have used both styles and of
the two I really hate the 3 hinge style the most. They are the most awkward
to use. There's no question that the single hinge style of the Little Giant
is far less awkward than the 3 hinge style, but I still prefer a straight up
step ladder to those.
Some of our experiences may be reflective of the equipment we've used. I
don't know how you use your ladders, and who else uses them, or how well
they are cared for. I take care of my equipment as I suspect you do yours,
but the equipment I have the (dis)pleasure of using from time to time is not
always so well cared for. It gets thrown into trucks, jammed in to make it
fit, buried under everything and yanked out from below it all, knocked
around, left out in the weather, etc. You know - the basic don't care sort
of thing. They don't work as well when exposed to this treatment. Subject
the more simple step ladder to this same abuse and there isn't as much to go
wrong. It just opens up and it's there. You have to deal with a regular
step requiring more storage space, and you have to deal with keeping more
ladders on hand, but I prefer that. If I need a 5 footer, that's what I
use. As I'm fond of saying, it's all a matter of perspective.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On Fri, 12 Oct 2007 06:13:50 -0700, Robatoy <[email protected]>
wrote:
<snip>
>3 Feet is about 'that' high...one metre?? WTF?
Bingo! I've been using, thinking, and visualizing Imperial units for
over 50 years now and whenever I encounter metric units other than the
basics, I have to convert to imperial. IOW - 33 or 56 inches is easy
to visualize, but not 84 or 142 cm.
I've worked in the civil engineering field for over 30 years, and
visualization is very important in order to get a feel for the job,
and recognize incorrect answers when you see them.
Bill
On 14 Oct 2007 01:25:03 GMT, Puckdropper <[email protected]>
wrote:
>"HeyBub" <[email protected]> wrote in
>news:[email protected]:
>
>*snip*
>
>>
>> Reality check: Do Japanese autos imported to the US have speedometers
>> in KPH?
>>
>
>My Japanese-made Prius switches when you press the button.
As does my in-law's first generation Prius and the new Mazda 5
mini-minivan they just bought.
Reality check... We have new US-built Chevy Malibu's at work, that
can display in Kilometers or Miles, as well as a dash display that
speaks at least four languages. In a Chevy! We have gobs of fun
setting the display to other choices. <G>
Both of my personal vehicles, a Jeep TJ and a Toyota pickup have
analog meters with dual scales. As do most of my stationary and
benchtop tools.
The only big tool I own that dosen't have dual scales is my Performax
22-44 drum sander. Performax thoughtfully included the metric version
for the user to install.
To tune, adjust, and repair my tools, as well as all of the cars I've
owned in the last 10-15 years, will require both metric and SAE tools.
---------------------------------------------
** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------
"Lee" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I am getting a bit fed-up with the 15/32...13/64... and the rest of the
>crap measurements we use here. Why shouldn't I go to what the rest of the
>world uses? Metric. Please no political BS. Seems like using 10's is a lot
>easier.No I'm not too old to change (62).<G>
There are absolutely no valid reasons NOT to use metric. There are plenty of
people afraid of change. Use it steady for a few days and you'll wonder why
we did not change decades ago. We use it for our money, we use it for some
beverages.
On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 22:12:38 GMT, "Lee" <[email protected]> wrote:
>I am getting a bit fed-up with the 15/32...13/64... and the rest of the crap
>measurements we use here. Why shouldn't I go to what the rest of the world
>uses? Metric. Please no political BS. Seems like using 10's is a lot
>easier.No I'm not too old to change (62).<G>
Go buy a couple of metric tape measures and have at it. I think you
could use whatever you like. You might have to replace bits and maybe
other things but as far as measuring goes, what difference does it
make as long as you always use the same thing? Of course for me, all
of the code requirements are still in inches so I'd have some
converting to do.
BTW, the scale on my Bies has both but the inch scale is on the top
where you can almost see it under the top of the pointer. I kinda
wish it was the other way around. I haven't spent the $15 for a
replacement scale in inches yet but I may have to.
Mike O.
"Mekon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> It has always confused me that while many Americans were vehemently
> opposed to metric, they still measure weapons in it. 9mm etc.
Some weaponry, but far from all, or even most. Think of all of the decimal
calibers out there. Everything from .22 to .308 to .45 to .50.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
"Lou Newell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Main problem with Al's film is the title .. S/B "an Incomplete Truth"
The title is correct, An Inconvenient Truth. Inconvenient that the Truth is
not covered by the film.
20-25 years ago the political swing was that we were headed into the next
Ice Age. Now that all this change has come into effect the earth is
starting to warm. LOL. I was reading that one of the reasons that
hurricanes are becoming more frequent and stronger is because we are
cleaning up the upper atmosphere. With less of what ever the spray cans
were releasing the atmosphere is clearer and the sun heats the oceans up
more. The cure is killing us.
Today I heard that the storms 40-50 years ago were just as strong. I
agree, I went through a hurricane when I was 15 and thought I would be
killed. The official winds were recorded at less than 140 mph. Local wind
meters had sustained winds of over 160 mph. More thorough record keeping
makes storms seem stronger now. The storm I went through has recorded wind
speed at 12 noon and 6 that evening. The highest winds were between 3 and 4
pm. Another inconvenient truth.
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Lee" wrote:
>
>> I am getting a bit fed-up with the 15/32...13/64... and the rest of
> the crap
>> measurements we use here. Why shouldn't I go to what the rest of the
> world
>> uses? Metric. Please no political BS. Seems like using 10's is a lot
>> easier.No I'm not too old to change (62).<G>
>
> Time is on the side of metric.
>
> 40 years ago when the metric change was proposed, the investment in
> tooling, supplies, supporting infrastructure in the USA was
> tremendous.
>
> Today a lot of that investment has become obsolete or consumed.
Yeah - dream on, McDuff - any tool investment going on today still
has to be backwards compatible, so will continue to be English.... Seem
to recall published details more than a year ago that said "Metrication"
has been abandoned as not practical.
'Sides, if fractions bother so much, English dimensions can also be
indicated in decimals - have been for AGES..... Ever read a micrometer?
Lazy modern generation, anyway..... Leave 'em without a calculator
& they can't give correct change.
> The change today would be easier, tomorrow easier yet.
>
> Lew
>
Sorry - this is nothing more than an emotional issue - no science to
it at all.
NGA
I changed to metric shortly after I had to start
running a press at work that was metric. No big
changes other than finding mesuring tapes that fit
my needs.
Puff
"Lee" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I am getting a bit fed-up with the
>15/32...13/64... and the rest of the crap
>measurements we use here. Why shouldn't I go to
>what the rest of the world uses? Metric. Please
>no political BS. Seems like using 10's is a lot
>easier.No I'm not too old to change (62).<G>
>
"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> More effective mindset: "This socket looks about the right size for this
> bolt... nope, too big, better go one size smaller."
>
> IOW, never mind the *numbers* on the side of the socket. Just use what
> fits.
>
Using your logic, you only need two wrenches in the toolbox, an Imperial
adjustable and a metric adjustable. Works for me
"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote
> The point is, use the socket that's the right size, and never mind what
> numbers are etched on the side of it.
>
That is a given.
Since the eyes are not what they used to be, it is damn near impossible to
read the socket size etched in the side.
In article <[email protected]>, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>And obviously, neither do committee's who award certain prizes. :)
Yeah, but that's nothing new. Whatever shred of credibility that committee may
have had remaining disappeared in 1994 when they awarded the Nobel Prize for
Peace (!) to a terrorist (Yasser Arafat).
Looking over the list of laureates
http://nobelpeaceprize.org/eng_lau_list.html
it appears that the inmates began making a concerted effort to take over the
asylum beginning around 1960.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Oct 14, 7:06 pm, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> "willshak" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> > If metric ever comes to this country (US), we should dress up as
>> > Amerinds
>> > and toss the whole lot into the harbor. :-)
>>
>> Better get dressed. Metric has been here for decades and is becoming
>> more
>> prominent all the time.
>
> What metric really is, is a transfer from design lab to fabrication
> floor.
> If the boys designed it in mm, they expect the quotes and subsequent
> samples to be all metric.
> It is not some kind of secret language, as you know, but a preferred
> method to some. Not all. Some.
>
> It is the close-minded "it's the USA-thereore BEST" crowd that hinders
> flexibility and advancements in adaptation to world markets. IOW...
> arrogance. Like Doug Miller.
It's not just the USA crowd. A lot of the people that make much loud noise
against metric never use any measurement system of any kind. Those that
absolutely need to use measurements every day, all day, are in the minority.
When I was in university I heard some pretty heated arguments against metric
from my musician friends, a very noisy lot indeed. Me and my physics
buddies were just crying inside, since no amount of logic worked any kind of
magic, and we just didn't have the volume needed to convince anyone of
anything.
I've been bitter every since.
- Owen -
On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 22:12:38 GMT, "Lee" <[email protected]> wrote:
>I am getting a bit fed-up with the 15/32...13/64... and the rest of the crap
>measurements we use here. Why shouldn't I go to what the rest of the world
>uses? Metric. Please no political BS. Seems like using 10's is a lot
>easier.No I'm not too old to change (62).<G>
>
I prefer metric for wrenches, sockets and drill bits... beats the hell out of
figuring out the fractions..
If 12mm doesn't fit, go to 11 or 13 simple!
As for 15/32 and such, if the plywood people would/wood go back to 3/4" and
such, it wouldn't be a problem..
Related rant:
Why can't hardwood people use nominal sizes like the rest of the lumber
industry?
I just bout 3 one foot sections of 16/16 cocobolo... why not just a friggin'
4x4"?
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing
We use metric measurement in the business of plywood/film faced
plywood/blockboard/MDF/Hardboard and so on .All our plywood businesses were
finished by using metric measurement, even if we do business with US, UK or
Ca customers . All our customers from Europe, Africa, Middle East, other
Asian countries use metric measurement .
--
Mason Pan
Blog: http://www.plywood.cc/
"Lee" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I am getting a bit fed-up with the 15/32...13/64... and the rest of the
> crap measurements we use here. Why shouldn't I go to what the rest of the
> world uses? Metric. Please no political BS. Seems like using 10's is a lot
> easier.No I'm not too old to change (62).<G>
>
Lee wrote:
> Not looking at tools etc. Looking at replacing fractional US measurements
So, do what you want. What are you measuring and why would it make any
difference to anyone else but you?
Me, I'm same age, trained as engineer so mks are familiar in their
place, but for day-to-day usage, British measurements are just what
"comes naturally". For measuring in woodworking a 64th is more than
adequate for virtually any and everything, a 32nd is usually good enough
except for matching joints where to make things easy one generally uses
a marking gauge and transfer marks, not actual physical measurements,
anyway. For estimating, I _know_ what an inch is in terms of a length
of particular finger joint, eight inches is a convenient spread, lots of
practice lets me pace of a yard pretty doggone accurately, ... Any of
those in even cgs units is something I'd have to start over at age 8 to
have a hope of learning with such fluency. No point in it as far as I
can see...
$0.02, ymmv, etc., of course, ...
--
> "Morris Dovey" > No reason not to. If you do, then I'll join you as soon as
> I can by
>> metric sized tools, bits, wood, etc at a better price than I can buy
>> inch sizes...
>>
>> --
>> Morris Dovey
>> DeSoto Solar
>> DeSoto, Iowa USA
>> http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
>>
>>
>
>
Lee <[email protected]> wrote:
: I am getting a bit fed-up with the 15/32...13/64... and the rest of the crap
: measurements we use here. Why shouldn't I go to what the rest of the world
: uses? Metric. Please no political BS.
:Seems like using 10's is a lot easier.
A common thought about metric, and a fallacy as far as I'm concerned.
It's easier to divide and multiply by multiples of 10 in metric, but so what?
"Jeez, I think the overhang on that tabletop looks a bit scanty, so I
think I'll try ten times more"? "Heck, that shelf is too long. Better
try a tenth that length and see how it looks"?
If you think about it, imperial measurements (in 16ths and 12ths) have more
integral divisors (2, 3, 4, 6, 8) than metric ones do (2 and 5).
Plus, the imperial units correspond better to humanscale proportions (as
le Corbusier and othr designers discovered when they switched ou of metric).
It's inches, feet, yards, furlongs, cubits, and barleycorns for me.
A pint's a pound, the world round.
-- Andy Barss
Mason Pan <[email protected]> wrote:
: We use metric measurement in the business of plywood/film faced
: plywood/blockboard/MDF/Hardboard and so on .All our plywood businesses were
: finished by using metric measurement, even if we do business with US, UK or
: Ca customers .
Aren't "metric" plywood sheets something like 1200 x 2400 millimeters,
which is oddly very close to four by eight feet?
And aren't bords in Europe sold in 2.4 meter lengths? Not a natural
unit in metric.
-- Andy Barss
In plywood business ,four by eight feet is 1220X2440 mm in metric system .
We sell 1220x2440 or 1250x2500 mm plywood / film faced plywood to Europe ,
USA and other countries .
--
Mason Pan
Blog: http://www.plywood.cc/
"Andrew Barss" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Mason Pan <[email protected]> wrote:
> : We use metric measurement in the business of plywood/film faced
> : plywood/blockboard/MDF/Hardboard and so on .All our plywood businesses
> were
> : finished by using metric measurement, even if we do business with US, UK
> or
> : Ca customers .
>
> Aren't "metric" plywood sheets something like 1200 x 2400 millimeters,
> which is oddly very close to four by eight feet?
>
>
> And aren't bords in Europe sold in 2.4 meter lengths? Not a natural
> unit in metric.
>
>
> -- Andy Barss
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> "asmurff" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> But why must we replace bits, sockets, tape measures and all of our
>> imperial sized tools? Just to be like the rest of the world? After 39
>> years of following my father around the world or bouncing around it myself
>> ( we're both career military) I'll tell you I don't see anything they do
>> that warrens changing. In the age of the internet if you want to change,
>> order your tools aboard but don't force your ideas on the rest of us!!!!
>
> Ask the companies that have not been able to sell their products and
> machines overseas because the other countries want metric. It may not
> affect you, but it certainly does affect some people. If you don't want to
> participate in a world economy, you don't have to.
I know of no company that doesn't make metric products for the export
market if that is their target. It's a strawman argument. US
automakers have switched, for example.
--
Q1 Isn't that wonderful. You have to manufacture and stock two different
sizes, different by only a couple of inches. Not very efficient, is it?
Reply: In plywood business ,"four by eight feet" means "1220X2440 mm only"
in metric system . But some customers from Europe and other areas prefer
1250X2500 mm .
I think metric system is more efficient .
Q2 When one or the other wins out - as will inevitably happen - which will
it be? Pick one.
Reply: As to me, I prefer metric system . Because it's easy to do
calculation in metric system .
I agree with you that one will inevitably win out . But it may takes a very
long time in the future .
--
Mason Pan
Blog: http://www.plywood.cc/
"John Martin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Oct 12, 8:28 am, "Mason Pan" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> In plywood business ,four by eight feet is 1220X2440 mm in metric system
>> .
>> We sell 1220x2440 or 1250x2500 mm plywood / film faced plywood to Europe
>> ,
>> USA and other countries .
>>
>> --
>> Mason Pan
>
> Isn't that wonderful. You have to manufacture and stock two different
> sizes, different by only a couple of inches. Not very efficient, is
> it?
>
> When one or the other wins out - as will inevitably happen - which
> will it be? Pick one.
>
> Will it be the 1220x2440? I'll be happy, because it will fit right on
> over my 12", 16" or 24" OC studs, joists or rafters. But it won't
> quite span the gaps of building done to metric standards. And working
> in metric units with odd numbers like 1220 and 2440 and their
> multiples and divisibles isn't much easier than working with inches,
> feet and fractions.
>
> Will it be the 1250x2500? Easier to work with the numbers, and it
> will fit metric-built existing structures. But I'll have to trim
> every piece to get it to fit, won't I?
>
> Wonderful.
>
> John Martin
>
Lee wrote:
> I am getting a bit fed-up with the 15/32...13/64... and the rest of
> the crap measurements we use here. Why shouldn't I go to what the
> rest of the world uses? Metric. Please no political BS. Seems like
> using 10's is a lot easier.No I'm not too old to change (62).<G>
One could argue that the binary system has finer granularity than that
old fashioned pre-computer decimal system.
Binary gives you 3 units between 1/1 and 1/10, and 3 units between
1/10 and 1/100.
Lot more flexible.
Or hadn't you noticed that 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/16, 1/32, 1/64 were powers
of 2 in the denominator?
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> "Lee" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> I am getting a bit fed-up with the 15/32...13/64... and the rest of
>> the crap measurements we use here. Why shouldn't I go to what the
>> rest of the world uses? Metric. Please no political BS. Seems like
>> using 10's is a lot easier.No I'm not too old to change (62).<G>
>
>
> There are absolutely no valid reasons NOT to use metric.
So what? What are the valid reason to NOT use the system we're
already using? If you want people to change their behavior you have
to give them a reason to do so, not simply tell them that there's no
reason not to.
>There are
> plenty of people afraid of change. Use it steady for a few days and
> you'll wonder why we did not change decades ago. We use it for our
> money, we use it for some beverages.
Why would one wonder that after "using it steady for a few days"?
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:
> HeyBub wrote:
>> Look, MKS (Meter/Kilogram/Second) is okay for science and whatnot,
>> but it just doesn't work for human use.
>
>
>
> But it could. The conversion is what's difficult. When gasoline is
> sold by the liter, who gives a shit about the gallon? We'd see one
> gas station selling gas for 64 cents per liter and the station on
> the
> other side of the street is selling it for 69 cents, how tough is it
> to figure out? We will figure out that our cars can go 500 km on a
> tank, which will hold maybe 60 liters. It won't take all that long
> to become comfortable with it. If Europe was able to manage it, why
> the hell couldn't we? Aren't we smart enough?
Why should one _want_ to "become comfortable with it"? If I get a new
pair of boots and walk in them a while I'll be comfortable in them,
but if there's nothing wrong with my old boots why should I bother?
And you seem to be ignoring the fact that the English system, parts of
which go back to Rome, was to a substantial extent designed around the
human form.
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> "HeyBub" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> Look, MKS (Meter/Kilogram/Second) is okay for science and whatnot,
>> but it just doesn't work for human use.
>>
>
> It works in 80% of the world. It CAN work here if we want it to.
So give us a reason to want it to. If you don't like the US then move
somewhere more to your liking. Part of freedom is the freedom to
leave.
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> "Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
>>
>>> There are absolutely no valid reasons NOT to use metric. There are
>>> plenty of people afraid of change. Use it steady for a few days
>>> and you'll wonder why we did not change decades ago. We use it
>>> for
>>> our money, we use it for some beverages.
>>
>> I'd like to agree, but can't. I came up with a gizmo (photos at
>> link
>> below) that allows ShopBot users to zero all three axes to a jig or
>> workpiece in less than a minute and a bunch of guys wanted 'em for
>> their shops. The first customer was in Sweden so I figured it'd be
>> cool to go metric...
>>
>> Ok - I needed aluminum bar stock at _least_ 3/8" thick (1/2" would
>> be
>> better) and went to the catalog. No metric stock available - so
>> ordered 1/2" x 6" x 72". Shrug.
>
> The problems you encountered were due to mixing. Metric stock is
> readily available outside the US and some places here but not very
> plentiful. If we made the switch universally, your problem would
> not
> exist. You made a good point as to why we should change to be
> compatible in a world economy.
>
> In my case, I can't buy US made machines for our industry so
> everything is metric. Simple to work with.
Edwin, are _you_ going to buy me a new planer, new saw fences, a full
set of twist, brad point, and Forstner bits, new wrenches and sockets,
new tape measures and rulers, and redimension all my drawings? If
not, are you going to pay me the the cost of all of this? If not,
then why should I be in favor of something that puts me out of pocket
a quite large amount of money and confers to me no benefit that I can
discern.
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> "asmurff" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> But why must we replace bits, sockets, tape measures and all of our
>> imperial sized tools? Just to be like the rest of the world? After
>> 39
>> years of following my father around the world or bouncing around it
>> myself ( we're both career military) I'll tell you I don't see
>> anything they do that warrens changing. In the age of the internet
>> if you want to change, order your tools aboard but don't force your
>> ideas on the rest of us!!!!
>
> Ask the companies that have not been able to sell their products and
> machines overseas because the other countries want metric. It may
> not
> affect you, but it certainly does affect some people. If you don't
> want to participate in a world economy, you don't have to.
And if someone can make enough by changing to metric to recoup the
cost more power to them. That is not justification for _me_ to do it.
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Robatoy wrote:
> On Oct 12, 9:17 am, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>> Have no fear ... Big Al just hasn't got around to making a
>> documentary about it yet. His next project, the "Inconvenient
>> Inch",
>> is in the works.
>>
> I'm not going near the topic of Big Al with a 3.048 metre pole.
Big Al's too busy destroying the credibility of the Nobel Prize
committee to be bothered with that right now.
They really should have just created a new category, the Nobel
Slinging Bullshit Prize.
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> "asmurff" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Why change something that so many people understand and have the
>> tools for in their boxes.
>
>
> Same reason people are learning to speak other languages. They want
> to be part of the rest of the world and reap benefits from it. Many
> schools are starting to teach Mandarin.
And there you have it. People _want_ to. Nobody has suggested that a
person who _wants_ to change to metric should be prohibited from doing
so. So what are you on about?
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
J. Clarke <[email protected]> wrote:
: Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
:> "HeyBub" <[email protected]> wrote in message
:>> Look, MKS (Meter/Kilogram/Second) is okay for science and whatnot,
:>> but it just doesn't work for human use.
:>>
:>
:> It works in 80% of the world. It CAN work here if we want it to.
: So give us a reason to want it to. If you don't like the US then move
: somewhere more to your liking. Part of freedom is the freedom to
: leave.
And no country hs ever voluntarily adopted the metric system -- it's always
been legislated and forced upon the citizenry.
-- Andy Barss
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
...
> ... making no valid reason NOT to use it.
...
I contend comfort and familiarity _is_ a valid reason to retain it for
everyday activities...
> ....After a couple of days you will have learned it an be
> able to estimate how many meters a room dimension is.
Meanwhile, still knowing that a gallon of paint covers about 350 sq-ft... :)
--
Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "Swingman" wrote:
>
>> ... and just how do you figure that, old man? :)
>
> Simple.
>
> If you use a credit card and something goes wrong, you dispute it and
> retain the use of your money while the dispute.
>
> If your credit card gets stolen and unauthorized charges are made, it
> is the credit card companies responsibility to clean it up.
>
> If you use a debit card is used, payment is instantenous.
>
> If something goes wrong, you are on your own.
>
> If the debit card is stolen and they drain your account, it's your
> problem.
On ours, notification within two days of loss limits liability of loss
to $50. Only after 60 days does it become unlimited.
Whether that is part of revised law or simply a particular card-issuer
policy, I couldn't say, but it was something I checked carefully before
taking it.
I rarely use it, however, preferring the float of the c-c instead.
--
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> "dpb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> Meanwhile, still knowing that a gallon of paint covers about 350 sq-ft...
>> :)
>
> So will 4 liters That is the same as what you get in two of those big
> 67.6 ounce soda bottles. :)
Wouldn't that be 3.8 l? :)
--
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> "dpb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> I know of no company that doesn't make metric products for the export
>> market if that is their target. It's a strawman argument. US automakers
>> have switched, for example.
>
> Since you don't know of them they don't exist? I know of two companies that
> have not had success in Europe because they don't want to change to metric.
That's a given. You do have to cater to the client. My point was, if
perhaps not well stated, that if you're going for a market for which it
is important, you will have made the change as part of that effort -- if
you try the other way, you're not very serious. Ergo, those that have
serious intents have made the change. I think in large part, that's
true, whether there happen to be a few holdouts or not. That's a
different subject imo than whether it should be universal for common usage.
> One no longer tries, the other is going to make the change. It may be a
> strawman argument today because the auto industry finally figured out it
> would be wise to change. They are still fighting right hand drive.
While I'll agree that _eventually_ it might become common in the US, I
don't foresee the shift from driving on the right in NA ever changing.
--
>
>
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> I question this oft quoted yet misapplied analogy. If you grab a 10mm
>> socket and it's too small what do you do? You try to figure out if it's
>> one size, two sizes or whatever, too small. You don't really care about
>> 11 or 12 or 22 for that matter. Same with fractional measurements.
>
>
> Not saying the reasoning is good or bad, but put the following in sequence
> by size:
>
> 13, 11, 12
>
> 29/64, 7/16, 9/32
>
> Most experienced mechanics know by looking at a bolt head what to reach for
> right off, but to the Saturday mechanic, it can be confusing.
I recognize every inch bolt/nut from 1/4" to 1"+ by sight but I'll be
damned if I can _yet_ tell the difference between adjacent 1-mm sizes in
the 10-12 range. And the designers just seem hellbent to use every
daggone one of them in random profusion---it's my biggest complaint
about metric in general use although everything, even the Deere now is
almost universally metric...
--
Peter Huebner wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>> And the designers just seem hellbent to use every
>> daggone one of them in random profusion---it's my biggest complaint
>> about metric in general use although everything, even the Deere now is
>> almost universally metric...
>>
>
> Not really, at least not if you go to Europe. ...
I only work on what is here... :)
--
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> Edwin, are _you_ going to buy me a new planer, new saw fences, a
>> full
>> set of twist, brad point, and Forstner bits, new wrenches and
>> sockets, new tape measures and rulers, and redimension all my
>> drawings? If not, are you going to pay me the the cost of all of
>> this? If not, then why should I be in favor of something that puts
>> me out of pocket a quite large amount of money and confers to me no
>> benefit that I can discern.
>
> So tell me, exactly, why you need a new planer and saw fences?
> Mine
> not only do metric, they do Witworth too.
Mine don't. At least not unless I take a meter stick to them or set
the thickness by trial and error.
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
B A R R Y wrote:
> J. Clarke wrote:
>>
>> Edwin, are _you_ going to buy me a new planer, new saw fences, a
>> full
>> set of twist, brad point, and Forstner bits, new wrenches and
>> sockets, new tape measures and rulers, and redimension all my
>> drawings?
>
> Saws, planers, and other stuff can care less about units. At worst,
> it's a new decal.
So are you going to make these decals and give them to me?
And on the planer, the thickness screw is calibrated in inches--a full
turn of the screw will never work out to any even number of
millimeters unless you replace the screw with one that has a different
thread pitch.
> Most of us already have metric sockets, as even my Jeep Wrangler has
> metric bolts.
So?
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> "dpb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> I know of no company that doesn't make metric products for the
>> export
>> market if that is their target. It's a strawman argument. US
>> automakers have switched, for example.
>
> Since you don't know of them they don't exist? I know of two
> companies that have not had success in Europe because they don't
> want
> to change to metric.
Then they don't _really_ want the European market.
> One no longer tries, the other is going to make
> the change.
So they've decided that they really want the export market and the
other company has decided that it doesn't. None of this negates the
original point.
It may be a strawman argument today because the auto
> industry finally figured out it would be wise to change. They are
> still fighting right hand drive.
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Peter Huebner wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] says...
>>
>> Using your logic, you only need two wrenches in the toolbox, an
>> Imperial adjustable and a metric adjustable. Works for me
>>
>
> I'm surprised no-one has mentioned it yet: there is a brand of
> spanners called Metrinch. The name says it all. What's more, these
> spanners attach the centre of the sides of the nut, rather than the
> edges, meaning you can also use them on badly degraded nuts and
> bolts, without ripping off the corners. And they do all sizes. My
> set
> is made in USA ;-) Father in law told me about them 25 years ago,
> apparently Peugot used to include them in their toolkits way back
> then. I've got a socket set and a spanner set, they're brilliant if
> you have to deal with rusted farm machinery from time to time, as
> well as both metric and imperial nuts and bolts constantly.
According to their Web site they're made in Taiwan. Might be really
good but selling them using infomercials has pretty well shot their
credibility. I googled them and the consensus among users seems to be
that they actually work as advertised but have a lot of slop which
makes wrenching in tight quarters problematical.
> -P.
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Leon wrote:
> "HeyBub" <[email protected]> wrote in message
...
>> Reality check: Do Japanese autos imported to the US have speedometers in
>> KPH?
>
> They absolutely do.
In mph as well (not exclusive of)...
--
"willshak" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> on 10/11/2007 7:33 PM Lew Hodgett said the following:
>> "Lee" wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I am getting a bit fed-up with the 15/32...13/64... and the rest of
>>>
>> the crap
>>
>>> measurements we use here. Why shouldn't I go to what the rest of the
>>>
>> world
>>
>>> uses? Metric. Please no political BS. Seems like using 10's is a lot
>>> easier.No I'm not too old to change (62).<G>
>>>
>>
>> Time is on the side of metric.
>>
>> 40 years ago when the metric change was proposed, the investment in
>> tooling, supplies, supporting infrastructure in the USA was
>> tremendous.
>>
>
> Yes, and those companies that made tools, now could sell twice as many
> tools than if there was only one measurement.
> "A set of SAE wrenches and a set of Metric wrenches, please."
>
Autos need metric (with a few exceptions) and everything else of any size
uses SAE, so they do sell both. My auto set in metric is growing.
>> Today a lot of that investment has become obsolete or consumed.
>>
>> The change today would be easier, tomorrow easier yet.
>>
>> Lew
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
> Bill
> In Hamptonburgh, NY
> To email, remove the double zeroes after @
>
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Have no fear ... Big Al just hasn't got around to making a documentary
> about
> it yet. His next project, the "Inconvenient Inch", is in the works.
>
> It will stop global warming in its tracks by making the "feels like"
> numbers
> smaller for the idiocracy.
I am going down later today to personally fire all of the meteorologists in
Houston!
Yesterday morning at about 7:30 I was listening to the channel 2 weather
and they were simply restating what they predicted that the weather would
feel like, the day before.
It is going to be DRY and cool.
I went outside and saw a heavy layer of dew on my truck and on my son's car
and then I looked at the big wet spot on the drive way where the dew had
been dripping off of the house.
The SOB's don't care about facts!
"Phil-In-Mich." <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> As for my Father, may he rest in peace, the conversion from the current
> system to metric was an insult to his membership in the dominate culture
> of the USA and his experience in WWII. He was a total flag waving,
> anthem singing blue-collar union man who hated the prissy-management-class
> bosses.
> IMHO, the story stick is where more woodworking should be, not in
> arguments over tape measurement units. Remember, inches, feet, yards and
> meters were imposed by the Bosses onto the workers of the world for the
> convenience of the industrial revolution, factories, and interchangeable
> parts.
Your dad sounds like an interesting guy that would be fun to talk with over
a cold one.
You bring up a very good point about the measuring system. Industrial
revolution and interchangeable parts. They have made the US one of the most
productive countries in the world. What many people fail to notice though,
is that other countries have been taking over much of that manufacturing and
we are being left out. They don't always want our products because they are
not interchangeable, just as you'd have a difficult time getting your Saab
repaired back in 1960.
It is not that one system is superior to the other, but it simplifies life
if we all work towards the same goals. If my company insisted on buying
only machines made with Imperial measure, we'd be out of business as no more
machines are made in the US for our industry. Using metric, other
countries have put rockets in space, built nuclear reactors, race cars, fine
watches and heavy machinery. The standard of the photo industry was the 35
mm camera, the 8mm and 16mm movie cameras.
Those here that vocalize the superiority of the Imperial system have been
using metrics all of their life, but are just afraid to admit it. I'd
venture to say that many have not visited other countries to see how they do
survive.
All of that said, I'm going to pour me a couple of ounces of adult sipping
beverage from the 750 ml bottle.
--
Ed
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/
J. Clarke wrote:
>
> Edwin, are _you_ going to buy me a new planer, new saw fences, a full
> set of twist, brad point, and Forstner bits, new wrenches and sockets,
> new tape measures and rulers, and redimension all my drawings?
Saws, planers, and other stuff can care less about units. At worst,
it's a new decal.
Most of us already have metric sockets, as even my Jeep Wrangler has
metric bolts.
HeyBub wrote:
> Look, MKS (Meter/Kilogram/Second) is okay for science and whatnot, but it
> just doesn't work for human use.
But it could. The conversion is what's difficult. When gasoline is sold by the
liter, who gives a shit about the gallon? We'd see one gas station selling gas
for 64 cents per liter and the station on the other side of the street is
selling it for 69 cents, how tough is it to figure out? We will figure out that
our cars can go 500 km on a tank, which will hold maybe 60 liters. It won't
take all that long to become comfortable with it. If Europe was able to manage
it, why the hell couldn't we? Aren't we smart enough?
--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com
Lee wrote:
> I am getting a bit fed-up with the 15/32...13/64... and the rest of
> the crap measurements we use here. Why shouldn't I go to what the
> rest of the world uses? Metric. Please no political BS. Seems like
> using 10's is a lot easier.No I'm not too old to change (62).<G>
Accuracy? Lots of measuring devices are marked in 64s. Don't know if
metric things are marked in part millimeters or not but if not, a mark
would be 1/25.4".
I agree 10ths make more sense but I'm too old to change...I bought a
fractional calculator.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
It has always confused me that while many Americans were vehemently
opposed to metric, they still measure weapons in it. 9mm etc.
I'm numerically dyslexic, which makes numbers hard for me anyway. I
also have the disadvantage of going to school so that I finished here
in Australia in 1972. This meant I was taught in imperial but those in
the year behind me were taught in metric. So now I have both in my head
arguing with each other.
On the whole though, with my particular disability metric is easier.
Mekon
Mike Marlow wrote on 30/10/2007 :
> "Mekon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>> It has always confused me that while many Americans were vehemently opposed
>> to metric, they still measure weapons in it. 9mm etc.
>
> Some weaponry, but far from all, or even most. Think of all of the decimal
> calibers out there. Everything from .22 to .308 to .45 to .50.
I am just surprised there are any at all given the resistance I have
seen here and elsewhere. It always reminds me of the debate between Mac
and PC or some sort of religious conflict.
Mekon
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
>> "Lee" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> I am getting a bit fed-up with the 15/32...13/64... and the rest of
>>> the crap measurements we use here. Why shouldn't I go to what the
>>> rest of the world uses? Metric. Please no political BS. Seems like
>>> using 10's is a lot easier.No I'm not too old to change (62).<G>
>>
>>
>> There are absolutely no valid reasons NOT to use metric.
>
> So what? What are the valid reason to NOT use the system we're
> already using? If you want people to change their behavior you have
> to give them a reason to do so, not simply tell them that there's no
> reason not to.
I don't really give a damn if people change or not. It is just that there
is no valid reason to say one system is superior if both can get it done,
making no valid reason NOT to use it.
>
>>There are
>> plenty of people afraid of change. Use it steady for a few days and
>> you'll wonder why we did not change decades ago. We use it for our
>> money, we use it for some beverages.
>
> Why would one wonder that after "using it steady for a few days"?
Because those closed minded individuals that think it is a bad system will
find that is not so bad, it is simple to use, and makes us compatible with
the rest of the world. Many people are afraid of change and fear having to
learn something new. After a couple of days you will have learned it an be
able to estimate how many meters a room dimension is.
"mac davis" wrote in message
> Why can't hardwood people use nominal sizes like the rest of the lumber
> industry?
There is no industry, like the construction industry which primarily uses
softwoods, which requires "standards" to build to?
The cell structure for softwoods is less subject to stability issues
inherent with different methods of cutting a log, thereby it's easier/more
cost effective/less waste to produce to standardized sizes while maintaining
stability?
There is a lot of waste in milling standardized nominal sizes with
hardwoods, because of the above, that they couldn't charge you for?
I dunno ... just a few guesses, among many.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 9/30/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)
"Han" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Let's keep things in perspective.
>
> 1 liter lead-free gas (Euro 95) costs about Euro 1,35 in Wageningen, the
> Netherlands
>
> 1 Euro = US $1.418 as of 10/14/07
> 1 gallon (US, liquid) = 3.78 liter
>
> So lead-free gas (Euro 95) costs:
> 3.78*1.418*1.35= US $7.24/gallon
> Near here in New Jersey, a cheap station (Woroco) sells unleaded regular
> for $2.45/gallon
>
> Happy driving in Europe!
Yeah buttttt. Every thing in Europe is closer. A cross country drive in
the U.S. probably costs as much as a Cross country drive in Europe.
dpb wrote:
> Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
>> "dpb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> Meanwhile, still knowing that a gallon of paint covers about 350
>>> sq-ft... :)
>>
>> So will 4 liters That is the same as what you get in two of those
>> big 67.6 ounce soda bottles. :)
>
> Wouldn't that be 3.8 l? :)
>
> --
Would that be an Imperial gallon or US gallon?
Andrew Barss <[email protected]>:
> A common thought about metric, and a fallacy as far as I'm concerned.
> It's easier to divide and multiply by multiples of 10 in metric, but so what?
> "Jeez, I think the overhang on that tabletop looks a bit scanty, so I
> think I'll try ten times more"? "Heck, that shelf is too long. Better
> try a tenth that length and see how it looks"?
"Hmm, two feet is a wee bit too long, I'll try two inches..."
> If you think about it, imperial measurements (in 16ths and 12ths) have more
> integral divisors (2, 3, 4, 6, 8) than metric ones do (2 and 5).
But with metric it is easy to "upgrade" your precision. If m is to
coarse, try cm, if that still too coarse try mm, or even micrometers if
you are truly finicky ("1 meter, no make that 102 cm, 1023 mm to be
precise"). How do you sanely add precision to 3 feet and 14/64 inch?
The power of metric is that you can easilly add 14 mm to 17.3 cm, and
then place that on top of 1.05 m. Worst case with imperial you end up
with 16ths, 12ths, inches feet and yards. All at once.
/Par
--
Par [email protected]
It would be relevant at events if people were making a reasonable attempt
to be medieval people instead of attendees at a costume party, but that is
only occasionally the case, unfortunately. -- David/Cariadoc
Morris Dovey <[email protected]>:
> Then I needed button head cap screws to attach the thin pieces to the
> edges of the thick one. Hmm - M5 x .8 x 12 (3mm key) are $14.27/C and
> #10-32 x 1/2 (1/8 key) are $7.76/C. At this point my enthusiasm for
> metric was beginning to fade a bit.
Abnd your Swedish customer better not ever have to replace any of the
screws.
/Par
--
Par [email protected]
Cooking without animal products is like doing sysadmin work without vi.
-- rone
"asmurff" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> But why must we replace bits, sockets, tape measures and all of our
> imperial sized tools? Just to be like the rest of the world? After 39
> years of following my father around the world or bouncing around it myself
> ( we're both career military) I'll tell you I don't see anything they do
> that warrens changing. In the age of the internet if you want to change,
> order your tools aboard but don't force your ideas on the rest of us!!!!
Ask the companies that have not been able to sell their products and
machines overseas because the other countries want metric. It may not
affect you, but it certainly does affect some people. If you don't want to
participate in a world economy, you don't have to.
"asmurff" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Why change something that so many people understand and have the tools for
> in their boxes.
Same reason people are learning to speak other languages. They want to be
part of the rest of the world and reap benefits from it. Many schools are
starting to teach Mandarin.
Lee wrote:
> I am getting a bit fed-up with the 15/32...13/64... and the rest of the crap
> measurements we use here. Why shouldn't I go to what the rest of the world
> uses? Metric. Please no political BS. Seems like using 10's is a lot
> easier.No I'm not too old to change (62).<G>
>
Liquid measurements, as well.
I'd much rather deal with (milli)litres, rather than fractions of
ounces, when mixing finishes.
I'm in England and we use imperial and metric, I also have a house in
France where they have no comprehension of imperial lengths, weights
or volumes.
We co-exist with both; it's no big deal. My son is 20 years old and
has only been taught metric at school and Uni, but if you ask him how
tall and how much he weighs, he will tell you "6 3 and a half and 15
stone" (we don't use pounds to describe body weight).
Now the French being French, like to be different when it comes to
using metric. When I've been working on my place in France with a
French builder, he will use centimeters rather than millimeters. So a
measurement of 65 becomes 6.5 and when I ask, "is that meters" he says
"no it's centimeters". A 18mm thick sheet of ply becomes 1.8 thick and
9mm (3/8") plaster board is point 9.
This can become quite confusing when working together- fitting out a
kitchen or plaster boarding a room and on top of that I'm also
translating the language at the same time.
I'd rather use metric, imperial is illogical when measuring or
planning a structure. However, because of my age and education, I
still can't help thinking in feet and inches initially.
People will always disagree, that's just the way it is.
Cheers,
Chris
On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 00:46:53 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>Go to the automotive paint supply store and get yourself a set of paint
>sticks. They will be calibrated on both sides for different ratios of mix.
>Two sticks should cover all you will ever need. Need a 4:1:1 mix? Forget
>about ounces. Pour the components in to the measurements on the sticks.
>Wipe 'em off with solvent and put them away for the next job. It should not
>take you any longer to pour mixtures to the proper ratios than to simply
>pour the component parts. You're doing way too much math.
Thanks! I actually was planning a trip to check out 3M PPS cups.
I'll look for the cups, too.
---------------------------------------------
** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
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In article <[email protected]>, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> Did I *really* need to specify "repeat as needed until the proper size is
>> found"?? I thought that went without saying, but apparently I was
>> mistaken.
>
>It was a JOKE. Yes, we understood and yes, you are correct.
Ok, sorry, Ed, my sense of humor has been malfunctioning all week.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> Did I *really* need to specify "repeat as needed until the proper size is
> found"?? I thought that went without saying, but apparently I was
> mistaken.
It was a JOKE. Yes, we understood and yes, you are correct.
In article <[email protected]>, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> More effective mindset: "This socket looks about the right size for this
>> bolt... nope, too big, better go one size smaller."
>>
>> IOW, never mind the *numbers* on the side of the socket. Just use what
>> fits.
>>
>
>Using your logic, you only need two wrenches in the toolbox, an Imperial
>adjustable and a metric adjustable. Works for me
Did I *really* need to specify "repeat as needed until the proper size is
found"?? I thought that went without saying, but apparently I was mistaken.
The point is, use the socket that's the right size, and never mind what
numbers are etched on the side of it.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
"willshak" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>>
> If metric ever comes to this country (US), we should dress up as Amerinds
> and toss the whole lot into the harbor. :-)
>
Better get dressed. Metric has been here for decades and is becoming more
prominent all the time.
Why change something that so many people understand and have the tools for
in their boxes. I learned fractions (imperial) first, then in high school
was taught metric as the wave of the future, that was 1970 to 1974 no waves
yet, give it up and stick to what everyone knows. Before I get flamed by
the metric mafia I will state I can do both and make most conversions in my
head but prefer Imperial.
--
Mike
Watch for the bounce.
If ya didn't see it, ya didn't feel it.
If ya see it, it didn't go off.
Old Air Force Munitions Saying
IYAAYAS
"Lee" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I am getting a bit fed-up with the 15/32...13/64... and the rest of the
>crap measurements we use here. Why shouldn't I go to what the rest of the
>world uses? Metric. Please no political BS. Seems like using 10's is a lot
>easier.No I'm not too old to change (62).<G>
>
"Nova" wrote
> Consumer Reports.org September, 2007 article states:
More "if's" in that article than Carter had pills ...
All their points are moot if you only transfer from an interest bearing
account, as needed, what you are willing to lose in the rare instance "shit
happens", into an account accessible with a check/debit card.
You gotta pity the poor bastards who can't figure out how to make an out and
out convenience work for them, free of charge ... then again, many folks
today can't be trusted to use a butter knife responsibly.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 9/30/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)
"HeyBub" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Hmm. Saw a report today that China is creeping up on $1 trillion in
> exports. Much of that to the US and all in Imperial measure. Point is, if
> countries want to export to the US, it better not be metric.
Huh?
>
> Reality check: Do Japanese autos imported to the US have speedometers in
> KPH?
They absolutely do.