Slightly OT: Draining Portable Air Compressors - Are We Just Kiddng Ourselves?

On Tue, 5 Jun 2018 18:16:23 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Tuesday, June 5, 2018 at 7:52:13 PM UTC-4, Michael wrote:
>> On Monday, June 4, 2018 at 1:49:26 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> > On 6/4/2018 12:48 PM, OFWW wrote:
>> >
>> > >
>> > > There shouldn't be any explosion. If it rusts through it will at the
>> > > first just bleed out air. Maybe air and water. If your pressure relief
>> > > valve isn't working then replace it.
>> > >
>> >
>> > Right they "should" not, but these people seem to disagree with you
>> >
>> > https://sites.google.com/site/metropolitanforensics/cause-of-explosion-of-air-compressor-tanks
>>
>> Didn't need to see that. Now I fear my compressor is going to kill me.
>
>Actually, this is the one that you didn't need to see.
>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVP_A7eGYxw


The thing I see in common is thin tanks

At this point the only thing that is worse is exploding air bags.

On Mon, 4 Jun 2018 23:32:20 -0400, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 6/4/2018 10:46 PM, OFWW wrote:
>> On Mon, 4 Jun 2018 14:49:23 -0400, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> On 6/4/2018 12:48 PM, OFWW wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> There shouldn't be any explosion. If it rusts through it will at the
>>>> first just bleed out air. Maybe air and water. If your pressure relief
>>>> valve isn't working then replace it.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Right they "should" not, but these people seem to disagree with you
>>>
>>> https://sites.google.com/site/metropolitanforensics/cause-of-explosion-of-air-compressor-tanks
>>
>> Made me think a little different with these inexpensive things,
>> Thanks.
>>
>
>We used to have our industrial tanks inspected according to law in MA.
>They use an ultrasonic test and check multiple points on the bottom
>section of the tank. Of course, they are much thicker than the typical
>home compressor.
>
>I would think you can find most problems just by tapping around with a
>metal rod and listening.

Although it might be wise to do this with an empty tank.

On Wed, 6 Jun 2018 14:40:13 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Wednesday, June 6, 2018 at 12:29:48 PM UTC-4, Markem wrote:
>> On Wed, 6 Jun 2018 04:17:44 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >On Wednesday, June 6, 2018 at 1:01:18 AM UTC-4, OFWW wrote:
>> >> On Tue, 5 Jun 2018 18:16:23 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
>> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >On Tuesday, June 5, 2018 at 7:52:13 PM UTC-4, Michael wrote:
>> >> >> On Monday, June 4, 2018 at 1:49:26 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> >> >> > On 6/4/2018 12:48 PM, OFWW wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > There shouldn't be any explosion. If it rusts through it will at the
>> >> >> > > first just bleed out air. Maybe air and water. If your pressure relief
>> >> >> > > valve isn't working then replace it.
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Right they "should" not, but these people seem to disagree with you
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > https://sites.google.com/site/metropolitanforensics/cause-of-explosion-of-air-compressor-tanks
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Didn't need to see that. Now I fear my compressor is going to kill me.
>> >> >
>> >> >Actually, this is the one that you didn't need to see.
>> >> >
>> >> >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVP_A7eGYxw
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> The thing I see in common is thin tanks
>> >>
>> >> At this point the only thing that is worse is exploding air bags.
>> >
>> >The air bags weren't exploding, the inflators were.
>>
>> Air bags are an explosive device, the problem with those subjected to
>> recall is corrosion welding the seam where it should split.
>
>What recall are you referring to?
>
>If it's the Takata recall, often mistakenly referred to as an "airbag
>recall", it was not the airbags that were the problem, it was the
>inflator. The inflator and the air bag are 2 different parts.
>
>https://tinyurl.com/inflator-diagram
>
>In the Takata situation, it was the inflator itself that was breaking apart
>and shooting shrapnel at drivers and passengers.
>
>If you know of another airbag related recall, specific to the airbags
>themselves, I'm all ears. I like to learn new things.

Nomenclature, that I did not follow that closely, seems a bit of a
nit. But it was the seams of the "inflators" that corroded and caused
the shrapnel was what Ford told me when they did the Ranger. No matter
it is an explosive charge. Similar to the charges (impulse cartridges)
use to kick bomb off of jets.

On Tuesday, June 5, 2018 at 1:56:08 PM UTC-4, Electric Comet wrote:
> On Mon, 4 Jun 2018 08:29:38 [email protected] wrote:
>
> > was left tilted for hours it might drain completely, but the location
> > of the valve, being so close to one leg, makes it impossible to leave
> > it tilted.
>
> construct a custom stand
> maybe out of wood
>
> or just toss it and buy a new one they are under a 100 at hf

I had an "under a 100 at hf" compressor for years. The regulator, which never
work very well to begin with, eventually stripped out. I bought the PC unit
and 2 nail guns, NIB, for $120 on OfferUp about a month ago. This PC
compressor is light years ahead of the HF. I don't know what you get for
"under a 100 at hf" these days but I'll keep the PC.

I put the broken HF unit on Craigslist for free - including the fact that it
was broken. My email started blowing up within 15 mins and didn't stop all
day.

On Monday, June 4, 2018 at 12:01:43 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
=20
> Bleed the tank with the valve just partly opened and with full pressure=
=20
> but turned off and let the air drain completely. While depressuring=20
> tilt the tank back and forth until you no longer get water.
>=20
> You will never get all moisture out, it begins filling again every time=
=20
> the unit runs and the heat generated compounds the problem.
>=20
> On these small units you drain the water mostly to keep water out of the=
=20
> lines and going to your tools.

That's really the gist of it. You sling your little compressor into the bac=
k of you vehicle to go to the next job and that rusty, nasty condensation r=
olls all over the tank while riding around. Including the aperture that le=
ts out the air, which goes right into your air lines, then into the guns or=
other equipment.=20

I learned at a coatings spraying seminar that the pulsing on/off action fro=
m shooting your nailers or spraying with your guns actually pushes the cond=
ensate down the air lines due to the direction of the air flow.

BTW, that's why automatic gun oilers work, and why inline filters on compre=
ssors are needed.

Robert

On Monday, June 4, 2018 at 1:49:26 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 6/4/2018 12:48 PM, OFWW wrote:
>
> >
> > There shouldn't be any explosion. If it rusts through it will at the
> > first just bleed out air. Maybe air and water. If your pressure relief
> > valve isn't working then replace it.
> >
>
> Right they "should" not, but these people seem to disagree with you
>
> https://sites.google.com/site/metropolitanforensics/cause-of-explosion-of-air-compressor-tanks

Didn't need to see that. Now I fear my compressor is going to kill me.

On Monday, June 4, 2018 at 10:38:56 PM UTC-4, OFWW wrote:
> On Mon, 4 Jun 2018 14:45:58 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >On Monday, June 4, 2018 at 12:48:13 PM UTC-4, OFWW wrote:
> >> On Mon, 4 Jun 2018 08:29:38 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >> >I have a pancake style PC air compressor. The drain valve is partly up the side
> >> >so that the unit has to be tipped - and balanced on one leg - in order to drain
> >> >it.
> >> >
> >> >There is no way that all of the water is draining out. Maybe if it was left
> >> >tilted for hours it might drain completely, but the location of the valve,
> >> >being so close to one leg, makes it impossible to leave it tilted.
> >> >
> >> >https://i.ytimg.com/vi/rJpRvWux78I/maxresdefault.jpg
> >> >
> >> >If the valve was centered between 2 legs you could easily prop the unit
> >> >in the tilted position, but the way they designed the valve location makes
> >> >that nearly impossible.
> >> >
> >> >So, we drain what we reasonably can, then set the unit upright and some water
> >> >is going to run back to the bottom of the tank. Even if the valve is left open,
> >> >I doubt there is enough air circulation for the remaining water to evaporate
> >> >before the next daily use.
> >> >
> >> >It seems to me that the bottom of the tank is always going to be wet and
> >> >therefore subject to rusting. Sure, less water means less surface area to
> >> >rust, but if the very bottom of the tank is "under water" 100% of the time,
> >> >1/16" or 1/2" isn't going to make much difference at the very bottom, is it?
> >> >
> >> >*If* the tank is going to explode due to rust, which is more dangerous:
> >> >
> >> >Having a small area (the very bottom) that rusts out and blows or letting
> >> >a larger area rust, spreading the release point over a larger area? Sure, it
> >> >will probably still be a single point of failure, but if the area around
> >> >the failure point is already weakened by rust, wouldn't the explosion be
> >> >less violent?
> >>
> >> There shouldn't be any explosion. If it rusts through it will at the
> >> first just bleed out air. Maybe air and water.
> >
> >Do I want to rely on "shouldn't" in this situation. ;-)
> >
>
> Agreed.
>
> >Depending on who you listen to, some say leak, some say explode. Discretion,
> >valor, and all that. I know which way I lean. ;-)
> >
>
> Well, after looking at the Photo's in the repost linked to, I'd have
> to say I changed my opinion. Basically because the tanks are slightly
> thicker than heavy gauge sheet metal, that and an oil less compressor
> shouted short life time to me.
>
> I am so used to working with the commercial stuff I never considered
> these inexpensive things, and I have several here.
>
> I was also used to inspection dates for tanks, in commercial use.
>
> >> If your pressure relief valve isn't working then replace it.
> >
> >How does one test that? I can pull the ring all day to empty the air, but
> >how do I know that it will blow automatically when the situation calls for
> >it?
> >
>
> The more it is prematurely released, like with the ring, the weaker
> the pop off setting, so that can be a good thin.
>
> >I equate that with testing a GFCI. All the button tells me is that it worked
> >when I pressed it. It doesn't tell me that it will work when it actually
> >needs to. Sure, if the test fails, I'll know that it *wouldn't* have worked
> >when needed, but a passing test doesn't tell me that it *will* work in the
> >future. That last button push may have killed it.
> >
> >>
> >> Oil less compressors are more subject to the rust problem because
> >> their is no oil vapors in the compressed air to coat the tank.
> >>
> >> Depending on how often your compressor is in operation should control
> >> how often you drain it. If in continuous use I'd say about once a
> >> week, once a month if used frequently.
> >
> >I've been using mine for a few minutes maybe twice a week for the last month.
> >For example, I shot about 20 nails yesterday, another 20 last week sometime.
> >
> >I don't drain it every day, but when I do, I certainly get some water out of
> >it. But the frequency of draining doesn't really address my question. I could
> >drain it every day or even every hour. There is still no way that all of
> >the water is going to come out based on the location of the drain, unless the
> >unit was left balanced on one leg, perfectly positioned so the drain is
> >at it's lowest point. It's a terrible design and almost assures that there
> >will always be water in the tank.
> >
>
> That was my thinking when you first posted that. Today I realized that
> more than likely when your tank is setting normal that your bleed
> valve probably has a tube That arcs to the bottom of the tank. So it
> would drain the water, in any in that position, it you tilt it then
> you'd get air, and very little water. Check your manual if you can
> still find it, to verify it. If it is removable, then remove it and
> verify it, but mark the position of the valve before you remove it, so
> that you can set it back properly if it has a pickup tube attached.

No need for the manual, the instructions are right on the tank.

https://i.imgur.com/6Mg2Hsr.jpg

And yes, you have to tilt it forward and balance it on that nearby leg
to get the water out. Only air comes out if it not tilted. The valve has
to be at the lowest point to drain, basically pointing straight down.

I don't see how an "arcing tube" would work anyway. How would the water
overcome gravity and climb the tube to the drain? As far as I recall, gravity
sucks.

On Thursday, June 7, 2018 at 2:18:23 AM UTC-4, OFWW wrote:
> On Wed, 6 Jun 2018 18:56:06 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >On Wednesday, June 6, 2018 at 8:57:15 PM UTC-4, OFWW wrote:
> >> On Wed, 06 Jun 2018 20:02:13 +0000, Spalted Walt
> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >> >OFWW <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> On Tue, 5 Jun 2018 18:16:23 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
> >> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >On Tuesday, June 5, 2018 at 7:52:13 PM UTC-4, Michael wrote:
> >> >> >> On Monday, June 4, 2018 at 1:49:26 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> >> >> >> > On 6/4/2018 12:48 PM, OFWW wrote:
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> > > There shouldn't be any explosion. If it rusts through it will at the
> >> >> >> > > first just bleed out air. Maybe air and water. If your pressure relief
> >> >> >> > > valve isn't working then replace it.
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Right they "should" not, but these people seem to disagree with you
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > https://sites.google.com/site/metropolitanforensics/cause-of-explosion-of-air-compressor-tanks
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Didn't need to see that. Now I fear my compressor is going to kill me.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Actually, this is the one that you didn't need to see.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVP_A7eGYxw
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> The thing I see in common is thin tanks
> >> >>
> >> >> At this point the only thing that is worse is exploding air bags.
> >> >
> >> >With the possible exception of Takata, I think your odds for survival
> >> >would be far greater in the vicinity of of an "exploding air bag"
> >> >than an exploding air compressor.
> >> > "Somebody hold my beer..."
> >> ><https://www.youtube.com/embed/7YG7L_D_lfQ?autoplay=1&start=12&end=444&rel=0>
> >>
> >> http://money.cnn.com/2015/05/20/autos/takata-recall-list/index.html
> >>
> >> Odd, the headlines all state, "Exploding air bags", so to use the
> >> generic term for it no one should be flamed unless nit picking is the
> >> order of the day.
> >
> >Fake news.
>
> LOL, try typing it into your search engine. The link above was just
> one of many,

If a bunch of people are wrong, does that make it right? Is it not proper to try and set the facts
straight? Most of the sites that call it an "exploding airbag" are news sites, consumer
organizations, ambulance chasers, etc. Go to the auto company sites, government sites, etc.
and you find that (most) use proper terminology.

Go back to Mike's "buried pipe" thread, which you participated heavily in. Look at the level
of detail that that thread went down to. Why is is OK to be so correct in terminology, use,
cause and effect in that thread, but it's not OK for me to attempt to correct misinformation
when it comes the air bag inflator recall?

> and I am not denying that the explosive part of the air
> bag is the pertinent part, and that rust plays a key factor in it.

Please the report I linked to. Rust was not a factor. Nothing rusted. The chemical
composition of the propellant changed due to the introduction of moisture. That increased
its "explosive power" causing the inflators case to blow apart.

> But like the air compressor you never know when it will fail.

I'm not sure how that last comment relates to this specific discussion: "What was recalled
and what was the cause."

On Thursday, June 7, 2018 at 10:10:52 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
> On 6/6/2018 7:57 PM, OFWW wrote:
> > On Wed, 06 Jun 2018 20:02:13 +0000, Spalted Walt
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> OFWW <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Tue, 5 Jun 2018 18:16:23 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
> >>> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On Tuesday, June 5, 2018 at 7:52:13 PM UTC-4, Michael wrote:
> >>>>> On Monday, June 4, 2018 at 1:49:26 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> >>>>>> On 6/4/2018 12:48 PM, OFWW wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> There shouldn't be any explosion. If it rusts through it will at the
> >>>>>>> first just bleed out air. Maybe air and water. If your pressure relief
> >>>>>>> valve isn't working then replace it.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Right they "should" not, but these people seem to disagree with you
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> https://sites.google.com/site/metropolitanforensics/cause-of-explosion-of-air-compressor-tanks
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Didn't need to see that. Now I fear my compressor is going to kill me.
> >>>>
> >>>> Actually, this is the one that you didn't need to see.
> >>>>
> >>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVP_A7eGYxw
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> The thing I see in common is thin tanks
> >>>
> >>> At this point the only thing that is worse is exploding air bags.
> >>
> >> With the possible exception of Takata, I think your odds for survival
> >> would be far greater in the vicinity of of an "exploding air bag"
> >> than an exploding air compressor.
> >> "Somebody hold my beer..."
> >> <https://www.youtube.com/embed/7YG7L_D_lfQ?autoplay=1&start=12&end=444&rel=0>
> >
> > http://money.cnn.com/2015/05/20/autos/takata-recall-list/index.html
> >
> > Odd, the headlines all state, "Exploding air bags", so to use the
> > generic term for it no one should be flamed unless nit picking is the
> > order of the day.
> >
>
> Just to jump in on this LOL. If the headlines say it, always remember
> the media's motto. Never let the facts get in the way of a sensational
> story. And then there is always false news.

+1

We might as well add "Dumb it down for the general public".

"Exploding air bags" is easy for everyone to understand.

"Air bag inflators that burst under very specific situations" is way too
deep for most viewers.

On Mon, 4 Jun 2018 14:45:58 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Monday, June 4, 2018 at 12:48:13 PM UTC-4, OFWW wrote:
>> On Mon, 4 Jun 2018 08:29:38 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >I have a pancake style PC air compressor. The drain valve is partly up the side
>> >so that the unit has to be tipped - and balanced on one leg - in order to drain
>> >it.
>> >
>> >There is no way that all of the water is draining out. Maybe if it was left
>> >tilted for hours it might drain completely, but the location of the valve,
>> >being so close to one leg, makes it impossible to leave it tilted.
>> >
>> >https://i.ytimg.com/vi/rJpRvWux78I/maxresdefault.jpg
>> >
>> >If the valve was centered between 2 legs you could easily prop the unit
>> >in the tilted position, but the way they designed the valve location makes
>> >that nearly impossible.
>> >
>> >So, we drain what we reasonably can, then set the unit upright and some water
>> >is going to run back to the bottom of the tank. Even if the valve is left open,
>> >I doubt there is enough air circulation for the remaining water to evaporate
>> >before the next daily use.
>> >
>> >It seems to me that the bottom of the tank is always going to be wet and
>> >therefore subject to rusting. Sure, less water means less surface area to
>> >rust, but if the very bottom of the tank is "under water" 100% of the time,
>> >1/16" or 1/2" isn't going to make much difference at the very bottom, is it?
>> >
>> >*If* the tank is going to explode due to rust, which is more dangerous:
>> >
>> >Having a small area (the very bottom) that rusts out and blows or letting
>> >a larger area rust, spreading the release point over a larger area? Sure, it
>> >will probably still be a single point of failure, but if the area around
>> >the failure point is already weakened by rust, wouldn't the explosion be
>> >less violent?
>>
>> There shouldn't be any explosion. If it rusts through it will at the
>> first just bleed out air. Maybe air and water.
>
>Do I want to rely on "shouldn't" in this situation. ;-)
>

Agreed.

>Depending on who you listen to, some say leak, some say explode. Discretion,
>valor, and all that. I know which way I lean. ;-)
>

Well, after looking at the Photo's in the repost linked to, I'd have
to say I changed my opinion. Basically because the tanks are slightly
thicker than heavy gauge sheet metal, that and an oil less compressor
shouted short life time to me.

I am so used to working with the commercial stuff I never considered
these inexpensive things, and I have several here.

I was also used to inspection dates for tanks, in commercial use.

>> If your pressure relief valve isn't working then replace it.
>
>How does one test that? I can pull the ring all day to empty the air, but
>how do I know that it will blow automatically when the situation calls for
>it?
>

The more it is prematurely released, like with the ring, the weaker
the pop off setting, so that can be a good thin.

>I equate that with testing a GFCI. All the button tells me is that it worked
>when I pressed it. It doesn't tell me that it will work when it actually
>needs to. Sure, if the test fails, I'll know that it *wouldn't* have worked
>when needed, but a passing test doesn't tell me that it *will* work in the
>future. That last button push may have killed it.
>
>>
>> Oil less compressors are more subject to the rust problem because
>> their is no oil vapors in the compressed air to coat the tank.
>>
>> Depending on how often your compressor is in operation should control
>> how often you drain it. If in continuous use I'd say about once a
>> week, once a month if used frequently.
>
>I've been using mine for a few minutes maybe twice a week for the last month.
>For example, I shot about 20 nails yesterday, another 20 last week sometime.
>
>I don't drain it every day, but when I do, I certainly get some water out of
>it. But the frequency of draining doesn't really address my question. I could
>drain it every day or even every hour. There is still no way that all of
>the water is going to come out based on the location of the drain, unless the
>unit was left balanced on one leg, perfectly positioned so the drain is
>at it's lowest point. It's a terrible design and almost assures that there
>will always be water in the tank.
>

That was my thinking when you first posted that. Today I realized that
more than likely when your tank is setting normal that your bleed
valve probably has a tube That arcs to the bottom of the tank. So it
would drain the water, in any in that position, it you tilt it then
you'd get air, and very little water. Check your manual if you can
still find it, to verify it. If it is removable, then remove it and
verify it, but mark the position of the valve before you remove it, so
that you can set it back properly if it has a pickup tube attached.

There are automatic drain valves available so that are electronic so
that you can set the drain cycle and length. Most A/C supply houses
stock them as does Grainger's etc.

My small ones I drain after a days use, the large one monthly.

>>
>> Most of those systems will have compressor failure before a rust
>> failure.
>
>"Most". That's kind of like "shouldn't explode" isn't it? ;-)

True enough. Point taken. :)

On Tuesday, June 5, 2018 at 12:49:59 AM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
> On Monday, June 4, 2018 at 8:29:10 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>=20
> > I assume (hope) you are joking.=20
>=20
> Yessir.
>=20
> The compressor is probably the least dangerous tool I have on my job site=
s. Several different types of saws, nail guns, trim guns, drills, drivers,=
hammer drills, portable table saws, heavy duty grinders, cutting torches, =
chain saws, portable metal bandsaws, etc., etc., etc. are of great concern.=
The air compressor, not so much.
>=20
> Probably had about 50 of them over the last 40 years, and they are probab=
ly the ONLY tools on the job that haven't hurt someone (or me). The only f=
ailures of my compressors have been motors, compressor heads, regulators an=
d only one tank failure. The tank failed because it was heavily dented, th=
en when the inside crease of the dent rusted and had a slow leak after a fe=
w more months it was done.
>=20
> It may be another of my many shortcomings, but I just don't see a compres=
sor as a source of a catastrophic failure. I work around them all day long,=
sometimes with two or three working at the same time. I think I am the onl=
y one that drains their tanks regularly, and certainly the only one that ch=
ecks the oil on the oil splasher regularly. Still... no dramatic failures.
>=20
> Until this thread I never thought about the compressors as more then rout=
ine maintenance items, tools that occasionally wear out.
>=20
> Robert

Thus my subject line. I think there is a lot less to this "better drain the=
m every time or we're all
going to die" warning than one would be led to believe by reading the label=
s. If it really were a=20
given that they are going to rust and kill people, they wouldn't be allowed=
to design them like
my PC unit that can't really be drained completely by using their suggested=
"tilt" process.

I'm sure not going to lose any sleep over this.

On Wed, 6 Jun 2018 09:31:46 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

>On 6/5/2018 6:52 PM, Michael wrote:
>> On Monday, June 4, 2018 at 1:49:26 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>> On 6/4/2018 12:48 PM, OFWW wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> There shouldn't be any explosion. If it rusts through it will at the
>>>> first just bleed out air. Maybe air and water. If your pressure relief
>>>> valve isn't working then replace it.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Right they "should" not, but these people seem to disagree with you
>>>
>>> https://sites.google.com/site/metropolitanforensics/cause-of-explosion-of-air-compressor-tanks
>>
>> Didn't need to see that. Now I fear my compressor is going to kill me.
>>
>
>
>Almost nothing is impossible.

But most likely no probable, given that you maintain your tools.

OFWW <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Tue, 5 Jun 2018 18:16:23 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >On Tuesday, June 5, 2018 at 7:52:13 PM UTC-4, Michael wrote:
> >> On Monday, June 4, 2018 at 1:49:26 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> >> > On 6/4/2018 12:48 PM, OFWW wrote:
> >> >
> >> > >
> >> > > There shouldn't be any explosion. If it rusts through it will at the
> >> > > first just bleed out air. Maybe air and water. If your pressure relief
> >> > > valve isn't working then replace it.
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> > Right they "should" not, but these people seem to disagree with you
> >> >
> >> > https://sites.google.com/site/metropolitanforensics/cause-of-explosion-of-air-compressor-tanks
> >>
> >> Didn't need to see that. Now I fear my compressor is going to kill me.
> >
> >Actually, this is the one that you didn't need to see.
> >
> >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVP_A7eGYxw
>
>
> The thing I see in common is thin tanks
>
> At this point the only thing that is worse is exploding air bags.

With the possible exception of Takata, I think your odds for survival
would be far greater in the vicinity of of an "exploding air bag"
than an exploding air compressor.
"Somebody hold my beer..."
<https://www.youtube.com/embed/7YG7L_D_lfQ?autoplay=1&start=12&end=444&rel=0>

On Monday, June 4, 2018 at 4:46:01 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:

> Depending on who you listen to, some say leak, some say explode. Discretion,
> valor, and all that. I know which way I lean. ;-)
>
> > If your pressure relief valve isn't working then replace it.
>
> How does one test that? I can pull the ring all day to empty the air, but
> how do I know that it will blow automatically when the situation calls for
> it?
>
> I equate that with testing a GFCI. All the button tells me is that it worked
> when I pressed it. It doesn't tell me that it will work when it actually
> needs to. Sure, if the test fails, I'll know that it *wouldn't* have worked
> when needed, but a passing test doesn't tell me that it *will* work in the
> future. That last button push may have killed it.

> But the frequency of draining doesn't really address my question. I could
> drain it every day or even every hour. There is still no way that all of
> the water is going to come out based on the location of the drain, unless the
> unit was left balanced on one leg, perfectly positioned so the drain is
> at it's lowest point. It's a terrible design and almost assures that there
> will always be water in the tank.
>
> >
> > Most of those systems will have compressor failure before a rust
> > failure.
>
> "Most". That's kind of like "shouldn't explode" isn't it? ;-)

Wow... I am now looking at my compressors completely different. Ticking time bombs? I dunno. After reading this thread I am thinking that I need to ditch all four of them before I am killed or at least seriously injured.

Except for the compressor I use to paint, I just drain them once in a while, mostly when I think about it or before they go to storage. After reading this, it sounds like I might be playing the construction worker's version of "compressor roulette"!

Robert

On 6/4/2018 10:46 PM, OFWW wrote:
> On Mon, 4 Jun 2018 14:49:23 -0400, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 6/4/2018 12:48 PM, OFWW wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> There shouldn't be any explosion. If it rusts through it will at the
>>> first just bleed out air. Maybe air and water. If your pressure relief
>>> valve isn't working then replace it.
>>>
>>
>> Right they "should" not, but these people seem to disagree with you
>>
>> https://sites.google.com/site/metropolitanforensics/cause-of-explosion-of-air-compressor-tanks
>
> Made me think a little different with these inexpensive things,
> Thanks.
>

We used to have our industrial tanks inspected according to law in MA.
They use an ultrasonic test and check multiple points on the bottom
section of the tank. Of course, they are much thicker than the typical
home compressor.

I would think you can find most problems just by tapping around with a
metal rod and listening.

On 6/5/2018 6:52 PM, Michael wrote:
> On Monday, June 4, 2018 at 1:49:26 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On 6/4/2018 12:48 PM, OFWW wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> There shouldn't be any explosion. If it rusts through it will at the
>>> first just bleed out air. Maybe air and water. If your pressure relief
>>> valve isn't working then replace it.
>>>
>>
>> Right they "should" not, but these people seem to disagree with you
>>
>> https://sites.google.com/site/metropolitanforensics/cause-of-explosion-of-air-compressor-tanks
>
> Didn't need to see that. Now I fear my compressor is going to kill me.
>


Almost nothing is impossible.

On 6/4/2018 10:29 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> I have a pancake style PC air compressor. The drain valve is partly up the side
> so that the unit has to be tipped - and balanced on one leg - in order to drain
> it.
>
> There is no way that all of the water is draining out. Maybe if it was left
> tilted for hours it might drain completely, but the location of the valve,
> being so close to one leg, makes it impossible to leave it tilted.
>
> https://i.ytimg.com/vi/rJpRvWux78I/maxresdefault.jpg
>
> If the valve was centered between 2 legs you could easily prop the unit
> in the tilted position, but the way they designed the valve location makes
> that nearly impossible.
>
> So, we drain what we reasonably can, then set the unit upright and some water
> is going to run back to the bottom of the tank. Even if the valve is left open,
> I doubt there is enough air circulation for the remaining water to evaporate
> before the next daily use.
>
> It seems to me that the bottom of the tank is always going to be wet and
> therefore subject to rusting. Sure, less water means less surface area to
> rust, but if the very bottom of the tank is "under water" 100% of the time,
> 1/16" or 1/2" isn't going to make much difference at the very bottom, is it?
>
> *If* the tank is going to explode due to rust, which is more dangerous:
>
> Having a small area (the very bottom) that rusts out and blows or letting
> a larger area rust, spreading the release point over a larger area? Sure, it
> will probably still be a single point of failure, but if the area around
> the failure point is already weakened by rust, wouldn't the explosion be
> less violent?
>

Bleed the tank with the valve just partly opened and with full pressure
but turned off and let the air drain completely. While depressuring
tilt the tank back and forth until you no longer get water.

You will never get all moisture out, it begins filling again every time
the unit runs and the heat generated compounds the problem.

On these small units you drain the water mostly to keep water out of the
lines and going to your tools.

On 6/7/2018 9:51 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Thursday, June 7, 2018 at 10:10:52 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
>> On 6/6/2018 7:57 PM, OFWW wrote:
>>> On Wed, 06 Jun 2018 20:02:13 +0000, Spalted Walt
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> OFWW <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, 5 Jun 2018 18:16:23 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tuesday, June 5, 2018 at 7:52:13 PM UTC-4, Michael wrote:
>>>>>>> On Monday, June 4, 2018 at 1:49:26 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 6/4/2018 12:48 PM, OFWW wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There shouldn't be any explosion. If it rusts through it will at the
>>>>>>>>> first just bleed out air. Maybe air and water. If your pressure relief
>>>>>>>>> valve isn't working then replace it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Right they "should" not, but these people seem to disagree with you
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://sites.google.com/site/metropolitanforensics/cause-of-explosion-of-air-compressor-tanks
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Didn't need to see that. Now I fear my compressor is going to kill me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Actually, this is the one that you didn't need to see.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVP_A7eGYxw
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The thing I see in common is thin tanks
>>>>>
>>>>> At this point the only thing that is worse is exploding air bags.
>>>>
>>>> With the possible exception of Takata, I think your odds for survival
>>>> would be far greater in the vicinity of of an "exploding air bag"
>>>> than an exploding air compressor.
>>>> "Somebody hold my beer..."
>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/embed/7YG7L_D_lfQ?autoplay=1&start=12&end=444&rel=0>
>>>
>>> http://money.cnn.com/2015/05/20/autos/takata-recall-list/index.html
>>>
>>> Odd, the headlines all state, "Exploding air bags", so to use the
>>> generic term for it no one should be flamed unless nit picking is the
>>> order of the day.
>>>
>>
>> Just to jump in on this LOL. If the headlines say it, always remember
>> the media's motto. Never let the facts get in the way of a sensational
>> story. And then there is always false news.
>
> +1
>
> We might as well add "Dumb it down for the general public".
>
> "Exploding air bags" is easy for everyone to understand.
>
> "Air bag inflators that burst under very specific situations" is way too
> deep for most viewers.
>

Kinda like woodworkers that don't like Gorilla Glue. they automatically
think polyurethane. Gorilla has for years made a regular wood glue too,
much like Elmers and TiteBond I,II,III.

On 6/7/2018 10:14 AM, Jack wrote:
> On 6/6/2018 10:31 AM, Leon wrote:
>> On 6/5/2018 6:52 PM, Michael wrote:
>>> On Monday, June 4, 2018 at 1:49:26 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>> On 6/4/2018 12:48 PM, OFWW wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> There shouldn't be any explosion. If it rusts through it will at the
>>>>> first just bleed out air. Maybe air and water. If your pressure relief
>>>>> valve isn't working then replace it.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Right they "should" not, but these people seem to disagree with you
>>>>
>>>> https://sites.google.com/site/metropolitanforensics/cause-of-explosion-of-air-compressor-tanks
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Didn't need to see that. Now I fear my compressor is going to kill me.
>>
>> Almost nothing is impossible.
>
> I'll say.  Check this out:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dg7ohbT9O2o
>

Ah memories....

Many years ago near Corpus Christi, as teenagers, we would go out to a
deserted area along an area known as Oso. We took water filled
anti-freeze bottles and shot them at about 100 yards with large caliber
rifles.

The bottles held up remarkable well, an entry and exit hole showed up on
all. What we did not expect is that only the cap flew off and no damage
to the bottles, other than the entry and exit holes.

On 6/4/2018 12:48 PM, OFWW wrote:

>
> There shouldn't be any explosion. If it rusts through it will at the
> first just bleed out air. Maybe air and water. If your pressure relief
> valve isn't working then replace it.
>

Right they "should" not, but these people seem to disagree with you

https://sites.google.com/site/metropolitanforensics/cause-of-explosion-of-air-compressor-tanks

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

>So, we drain what we reasonably can, then set the unit upright and some
>water
>is going to run back to the bottom of the tank. Even if the valve is left
>open,
>I doubt there is enough air circulation for the remaining water to
>evaporate
>before the next daily use.

I generally open the valve and leave the compressor running for a bit to
blow the moisture out... I have done that with my pancake and always did it
with my father's Ingersoll Rand (120 gal tank).

As an aside, when I was a kid (during the not so memorable car era...
Pinto/Vega/K-cars LOL) I worked as a clerk in a pretty big auto dealership.
A new department supervisor in the used car prep dept. was apparently never
told it was his job to drain the tanks on the compressors. They were big
industrial compressors... 4 of them as I recall. One morning one of the
compressors failed. The story I heard was that water backed up into the
pistons... put a huge crimp in operations. Oops!

On Tue, 5 Jun 2018 09:13:55 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

>On 6/5/2018 5:28 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>> On Tuesday, June 5, 2018 at 12:49:59 AM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Monday, June 4, 2018 at 8:29:10 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>>
>>>> I assume (hope) you are joking.
>>>
>>> Yessir.
>>>
>>> The compressor is probably the least dangerous tool I have on my job sites. Several different types of saws, nail guns, trim guns, drills, drivers, hammer drills, portable table saws, heavy duty grinders, cutting torches, chain saws, portable metal bandsaws, etc., etc., etc. are of great concern. The air compressor, not so much.
>>>
>>> Probably had about 50 of them over the last 40 years, and they are probably the ONLY tools on the job that haven't hurt someone (or me). The only failures of my compressors have been motors, compressor heads, regulators and only one tank failure. The tank failed because it was heavily dented, then when the inside crease of the dent rusted and had a slow leak after a few more months it was done.
>>>
>>> It may be another of my many shortcomings, but I just don't see a compressor as a source of a catastrophic failure. I work around them all day long, sometimes with two or three working at the same time. I think I am the only one that drains their tanks regularly, and certainly the only one that checks the oil on the oil splasher regularly. Still... no dramatic failures.
>>>
>>> Until this thread I never thought about the compressors as more then routine maintenance items, tools that occasionally wear out.
>>>
>>> Robert
>>
>> Thus my subject line. I think there is a lot less to this "better drain them every time or we're all
>> going to die" warning than one would be led to believe by reading the labels. If it really were a
>> given that they are going to rust and kill people, they wouldn't be allowed to design them like
>> my PC unit that can't really be drained completely by using their suggested "tilt" process.
>>
>> I'm sure not going to lose any sleep over this.
>>
>
>
>Again, it is about helping to prevent water from entering the hoses and
>tools.
Water in air tools can REALLY screw them up.
Makes an awfull mess of a paintjob when it gets into a spray gun too -
- -

On Wed, 6 Jun 2018 18:56:06 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Wednesday, June 6, 2018 at 8:57:15 PM UTC-4, OFWW wrote:
>> On Wed, 06 Jun 2018 20:02:13 +0000, Spalted Walt
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >OFWW <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Tue, 5 Jun 2018 18:16:23 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
>> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >On Tuesday, June 5, 2018 at 7:52:13 PM UTC-4, Michael wrote:
>> >> >> On Monday, June 4, 2018 at 1:49:26 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> >> >> > On 6/4/2018 12:48 PM, OFWW wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > There shouldn't be any explosion. If it rusts through it will at the
>> >> >> > > first just bleed out air. Maybe air and water. If your pressure relief
>> >> >> > > valve isn't working then replace it.
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Right they "should" not, but these people seem to disagree with you
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > https://sites.google.com/site/metropolitanforensics/cause-of-explosion-of-air-compressor-tanks
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Didn't need to see that. Now I fear my compressor is going to kill me.
>> >> >
>> >> >Actually, this is the one that you didn't need to see.
>> >> >
>> >> >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVP_A7eGYxw
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> The thing I see in common is thin tanks
>> >>
>> >> At this point the only thing that is worse is exploding air bags.
>> >
>> >With the possible exception of Takata, I think your odds for survival
>> >would be far greater in the vicinity of of an "exploding air bag"
>> >than an exploding air compressor.
>> > "Somebody hold my beer..."
>> ><https://www.youtube.com/embed/7YG7L_D_lfQ?autoplay=1&start=12&end=444&rel=0>
>>
>> http://money.cnn.com/2015/05/20/autos/takata-recall-list/index.html
>>
>> Odd, the headlines all state, "Exploding air bags", so to use the
>> generic term for it no one should be flamed unless nit picking is the
>> order of the day.
>
>Fake news.

LOL, try typing it into your search engine. The link above was just
one of many, and I am not denying that the explosive part of the air
bag is the pertinent part, and that rust plays a key factor in it. But
like the air compressor you never know when it will fail.

On Wednesday, June 6, 2018 at 7:36:07 PM UTC-4, Markem wrote:
> On Wed, 6 Jun 2018 14:40:13 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >On Wednesday, June 6, 2018 at 12:29:48 PM UTC-4, Markem wrote:
> >> On Wed, 6 Jun 2018 04:17:44 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Wednesday, June 6, 2018 at 1:01:18 AM UTC-4, OFWW wrote:
> >> >> On Tue, 5 Jun 2018 18:16:23 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
> >> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >On Tuesday, June 5, 2018 at 7:52:13 PM UTC-4, Michael wrote:
> >> >> >> On Monday, June 4, 2018 at 1:49:26 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> >> >> >> > On 6/4/2018 12:48 PM, OFWW wrote:
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> > > There shouldn't be any explosion. If it rusts through it will at the
> >> >> >> > > first just bleed out air. Maybe air and water. If your pressure relief
> >> >> >> > > valve isn't working then replace it.
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Right they "should" not, but these people seem to disagree with you
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > https://sites.google.com/site/metropolitanforensics/cause-of-explosion-of-air-compressor-tanks
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Didn't need to see that. Now I fear my compressor is going to kill me.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Actually, this is the one that you didn't need to see.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVP_A7eGYxw
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> The thing I see in common is thin tanks
> >> >>
> >> >> At this point the only thing that is worse is exploding air bags.
> >> >
> >> >The air bags weren't exploding, the inflators were.
> >>
> >> Air bags are an explosive device, the problem with those subjected to
> >> recall is corrosion welding the seam where it should split.
> >
> >What recall are you referring to?
> >
> >If it's the Takata recall, often mistakenly referred to as an "airbag
> >recall", it was not the airbags that were the problem, it was the
> >inflator. The inflator and the air bag are 2 different parts.
> >
> >https://tinyurl.com/inflator-diagram
> >
> >In the Takata situation, it was the inflator itself that was breaking apart
> >and shooting shrapnel at drivers and passengers.
> >
> >If you know of another airbag related recall, specific to the airbags
> >themselves, I'm all ears. I like to learn new things.
>
> Nomenclature, that I did not follow that closely, seems a bit of a
> nit. But it was the seams of the "inflators" that corroded and caused
> the shrapnel was what Ford told me when they did the Ranger. No matter
> it is an explosive charge. Similar to the charges (impulse cartridges)
> use to kick bomb off of jets.

Nomenclature? A nit? Really? Tell that to Takata, who manufactured the
inflators, but not the airbags. The air bag and inflator are 2 separate
parts and in most cases, only the inflator is replaced.

In any case, I'll give you some leeway, since it was "Ford" that apparently
gave you incorrect information.

The seams of the inflator did not corrode. The problem was that the
inflator's case *never* adequately prevented moisture from entering the
inflator, thereby, over time, changing the chemical make up of the
non-desiccated propellant. This caused the propellant to explode with
more force than the inflator case was designed to withstand.

In fact, the "Case Structural Subsystem" was specifically designated as
"Not a cause" in the independent analysis submitted to the National Highway
Traffic Safety Administration.

The *Sealing* Subsystem, along with the Ballistic Subsystem and the External
Environment, are listed as the root cause, but that is a very different cause
than "corroded seams" since the problem existed since day one of manufacture.
Nothing ever "corroded".

It's all covered in this report, with the root cause (and non-causes) listed
on Page 23:

https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.dot.gov/files/documents/orbital_atk_research_summary.pdf

On Wednesday, June 6, 2018 at 1:01:18 AM UTC-4, OFWW wrote:
> On Tue, 5 Jun 2018 18:16:23 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >On Tuesday, June 5, 2018 at 7:52:13 PM UTC-4, Michael wrote:
> >> On Monday, June 4, 2018 at 1:49:26 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> >> > On 6/4/2018 12:48 PM, OFWW wrote:
> >> >
> >> > >
> >> > > There shouldn't be any explosion. If it rusts through it will at the
> >> > > first just bleed out air. Maybe air and water. If your pressure relief
> >> > > valve isn't working then replace it.
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> > Right they "should" not, but these people seem to disagree with you
> >> >
> >> > https://sites.google.com/site/metropolitanforensics/cause-of-explosion-of-air-compressor-tanks
> >>
> >> Didn't need to see that. Now I fear my compressor is going to kill me.
> >
> >Actually, this is the one that you didn't need to see.
> >
> >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVP_A7eGYxw
>
>
> The thing I see in common is thin tanks
>
> At this point the only thing that is worse is exploding air bags.

The air bags weren't exploding, the inflators were.

On Mon, 4 Jun 2018 21:20:13 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Monday, June 4, 2018 at 10:38:56 PM UTC-4, OFWW wrote:
>> On Mon, 4 Jun 2018 14:45:58 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >On Monday, June 4, 2018 at 12:48:13 PM UTC-4, OFWW wrote:
>> >> On Mon, 4 Jun 2018 08:29:38 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
>> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >I have a pancake style PC air compressor. The drain valve is partly up the side
>> >> >so that the unit has to be tipped - and balanced on one leg - in order to drain
>> >> >it.
>> >> >
>> >> >There is no way that all of the water is draining out. Maybe if it was left
>> >> >tilted for hours it might drain completely, but the location of the valve,
>> >> >being so close to one leg, makes it impossible to leave it tilted.
>> >> >
>> >> >https://i.ytimg.com/vi/rJpRvWux78I/maxresdefault.jpg
>> >> >
>> >> >If the valve was centered between 2 legs you could easily prop the unit
>> >> >in the tilted position, but the way they designed the valve location makes
>> >> >that nearly impossible.
>> >> >
>> >> >So, we drain what we reasonably can, then set the unit upright and some water
>> >> >is going to run back to the bottom of the tank. Even if the valve is left open,
>> >> >I doubt there is enough air circulation for the remaining water to evaporate
>> >> >before the next daily use.
>> >> >
>> >> >It seems to me that the bottom of the tank is always going to be wet and
>> >> >therefore subject to rusting. Sure, less water means less surface area to
>> >> >rust, but if the very bottom of the tank is "under water" 100% of the time,
>> >> >1/16" or 1/2" isn't going to make much difference at the very bottom, is it?
>> >> >
>> >> >*If* the tank is going to explode due to rust, which is more dangerous:
>> >> >
>> >> >Having a small area (the very bottom) that rusts out and blows or letting
>> >> >a larger area rust, spreading the release point over a larger area? Sure, it
>> >> >will probably still be a single point of failure, but if the area around
>> >> >the failure point is already weakened by rust, wouldn't the explosion be
>> >> >less violent?
>> >>
>> >> There shouldn't be any explosion. If it rusts through it will at the
>> >> first just bleed out air. Maybe air and water.
>> >
>> >Do I want to rely on "shouldn't" in this situation. ;-)
>> >
>>
>> Agreed.
>>
>> >Depending on who you listen to, some say leak, some say explode. Discretion,
>> >valor, and all that. I know which way I lean. ;-)
>> >
>>
>> Well, after looking at the Photo's in the repost linked to, I'd have
>> to say I changed my opinion. Basically because the tanks are slightly
>> thicker than heavy gauge sheet metal, that and an oil less compressor
>> shouted short life time to me.
>>
>> I am so used to working with the commercial stuff I never considered
>> these inexpensive things, and I have several here.
>>
>> I was also used to inspection dates for tanks, in commercial use.
>>
>> >> If your pressure relief valve isn't working then replace it.
>> >
>> >How does one test that? I can pull the ring all day to empty the air, but
>> >how do I know that it will blow automatically when the situation calls for
>> >it?
>> >
>>
>> The more it is prematurely released, like with the ring, the weaker
>> the pop off setting, so that can be a good thin.
>>
>> >I equate that with testing a GFCI. All the button tells me is that it worked
>> >when I pressed it. It doesn't tell me that it will work when it actually
>> >needs to. Sure, if the test fails, I'll know that it *wouldn't* have worked
>> >when needed, but a passing test doesn't tell me that it *will* work in the
>> >future. That last button push may have killed it.
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Oil less compressors are more subject to the rust problem because
>> >> their is no oil vapors in the compressed air to coat the tank.
>> >>
>> >> Depending on how often your compressor is in operation should control
>> >> how often you drain it. If in continuous use I'd say about once a
>> >> week, once a month if used frequently.
>> >
>> >I've been using mine for a few minutes maybe twice a week for the last month.
>> >For example, I shot about 20 nails yesterday, another 20 last week sometime.
>> >
>> >I don't drain it every day, but when I do, I certainly get some water out of
>> >it. But the frequency of draining doesn't really address my question. I could
>> >drain it every day or even every hour. There is still no way that all of
>> >the water is going to come out based on the location of the drain, unless the
>> >unit was left balanced on one leg, perfectly positioned so the drain is
>> >at it's lowest point. It's a terrible design and almost assures that there
>> >will always be water in the tank.
>> >
>>
>> That was my thinking when you first posted that. Today I realized that
>> more than likely when your tank is setting normal that your bleed
>> valve probably has a tube That arcs to the bottom of the tank. So it
>> would drain the water, in any in that position, it you tilt it then
>> you'd get air, and very little water. Check your manual if you can
>> still find it, to verify it. If it is removable, then remove it and
>> verify it, but mark the position of the valve before you remove it, so
>> that you can set it back properly if it has a pickup tube attached.
>
>No need for the manual, the instructions are right on the tank.
>
>https://i.imgur.com/6Mg2Hsr.jpg
>

I see what you mean.

>And yes, you have to tilt it forward and balance it on that nearby leg
>to get the water out. Only air comes out if it not tilted. The valve has
>to be at the lowest point to drain, basically pointing straight down.
>
>I don't see how an "arcing tube" would work anyway. How would the water
>overcome gravity and climb the tube to the drain? As far as I recall, gravity
>sucks.

On mine the air pressure forces it out. The tube ends right near the
bottom of the tank, below the water line, so to speak. I have seen
several commercial systems that way also. Horizontal tanks with the
drain screwed in the center of the Bell end. Although normally the
come out of the bottom of the tank like you would expect.

I checked some other models and they were all basically like yours, My
guess is that it is to maintain as low a profile as they could.

On Mon, 4 Jun 2018 14:49:23 -0400, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 6/4/2018 12:48 PM, OFWW wrote:
>
>>
>> There shouldn't be any explosion. If it rusts through it will at the
>> first just bleed out air. Maybe air and water. If your pressure relief
>> valve isn't working then replace it.
>>
>
>Right they "should" not, but these people seem to disagree with you
>
>https://sites.google.com/site/metropolitanforensics/cause-of-explosion-of-air-compressor-tanks

Made me think a little different with these inexpensive things,
Thanks.

On Monday, June 4, 2018 at 7:00:22 PM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
> On Monday, June 4, 2018 at 4:46:01 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>
> > Depending on who you listen to, some say leak, some say explode. Discretion,
> > valor, and all that. I know which way I lean. ;-)
> >
> > > If your pressure relief valve isn't working then replace it.
> >
> > How does one test that? I can pull the ring all day to empty the air, but
> > how do I know that it will blow automatically when the situation calls for
> > it?
> >
> > I equate that with testing a GFCI. All the button tells me is that it worked
> > when I pressed it. It doesn't tell me that it will work when it actually
> > needs to. Sure, if the test fails, I'll know that it *wouldn't* have worked
> > when needed, but a passing test doesn't tell me that it *will* work in the
> > future. That last button push may have killed it.
>
> > But the frequency of draining doesn't really address my question. I could
> > drain it every day or even every hour. There is still no way that all of
> > the water is going to come out based on the location of the drain, unless the
> > unit was left balanced on one leg, perfectly positioned so the drain is
> > at it's lowest point. It's a terrible design and almost assures that there
> > will always be water in the tank.
> >
> > >
> > > Most of those systems will have compressor failure before a rust
> > > failure.
> >
> > "Most". That's kind of like "shouldn't explode" isn't it? ;-)
>
> Wow... I am now looking at my compressors completely different. Ticking time bombs? I dunno. After reading this thread I am thinkfing that I need to ditch all four of them before I am killed or at least seriously injured.
>

I assume (hope) you are joking.

> Except for the compressor I use to paint, I just drain them once in a while, mostly when I think about it or before they go to storage. After reading this, it sounds like I might be playing the construction worker's version of "compressor roulette"!
>
> Robert

As I'm sure you know, if they really were that dangerous, they wouldn't let just any shumlp
walk into a Walmart and buy one, toss the instructions away and never drain it. Then when it's
half filled with water, they are allowed to sell it on Craigslist with no background check or
psychological evaluation on the buyer. ;-)

Besides, that's what life insurance is for.

On Wed, 6 Jun 2018 04:17:44 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Wednesday, June 6, 2018 at 1:01:18 AM UTC-4, OFWW wrote:
>> On Tue, 5 Jun 2018 18:16:23 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >On Tuesday, June 5, 2018 at 7:52:13 PM UTC-4, Michael wrote:
>> >> On Monday, June 4, 2018 at 1:49:26 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> >> > On 6/4/2018 12:48 PM, OFWW wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > There shouldn't be any explosion. If it rusts through it will at the
>> >> > > first just bleed out air. Maybe air and water. If your pressure relief
>> >> > > valve isn't working then replace it.
>> >> > >
>> >> >
>> >> > Right they "should" not, but these people seem to disagree with you
>> >> >
>> >> > https://sites.google.com/site/metropolitanforensics/cause-of-explosion-of-air-compressor-tanks
>> >>
>> >> Didn't need to see that. Now I fear my compressor is going to kill me.
>> >
>> >Actually, this is the one that you didn't need to see.
>> >
>> >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVP_A7eGYxw
>>
>>
>> The thing I see in common is thin tanks
>>
>> At this point the only thing that is worse is exploding air bags.
>
>The air bags weren't exploding, the inflators were.

Air bags are an explosive device, the problem with those subjected to
recall is corrosion welding the seam where it should split.

On Tuesday, June 5, 2018 at 7:52:13 PM UTC-4, Michael wrote:
> On Monday, June 4, 2018 at 1:49:26 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> > On 6/4/2018 12:48 PM, OFWW wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > There shouldn't be any explosion. If it rusts through it will at the
> > > first just bleed out air. Maybe air and water. If your pressure relief
> > > valve isn't working then replace it.
> > >
> >
> > Right they "should" not, but these people seem to disagree with you
> >
> > https://sites.google.com/site/metropolitanforensics/cause-of-explosion-of-air-compressor-tanks
>
> Didn't need to see that. Now I fear my compressor is going to kill me.

Actually, this is the one that you didn't need to see.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVP_A7eGYxw

On Wednesday, June 6, 2018 at 12:29:48 PM UTC-4, Markem wrote:
> On Wed, 6 Jun 2018 04:17:44 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >On Wednesday, June 6, 2018 at 1:01:18 AM UTC-4, OFWW wrote:
> >> On Tue, 5 Jun 2018 18:16:23 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Tuesday, June 5, 2018 at 7:52:13 PM UTC-4, Michael wrote:
> >> >> On Monday, June 4, 2018 at 1:49:26 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> >> >> > On 6/4/2018 12:48 PM, OFWW wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > There shouldn't be any explosion. If it rusts through it will at the
> >> >> > > first just bleed out air. Maybe air and water. If your pressure relief
> >> >> > > valve isn't working then replace it.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Right they "should" not, but these people seem to disagree with you
> >> >> >
> >> >> > https://sites.google.com/site/metropolitanforensics/cause-of-explosion-of-air-compressor-tanks
> >> >>
> >> >> Didn't need to see that. Now I fear my compressor is going to kill me.
> >> >
> >> >Actually, this is the one that you didn't need to see.
> >> >
> >> >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVP_A7eGYxw
> >>
> >>
> >> The thing I see in common is thin tanks
> >>
> >> At this point the only thing that is worse is exploding air bags.
> >
> >The air bags weren't exploding, the inflators were.
>
> Air bags are an explosive device, the problem with those subjected to
> recall is corrosion welding the seam where it should split.

What recall are you referring to?

If it's the Takata recall, often mistakenly referred to as an "airbag
recall", it was not the airbags that were the problem, it was the
inflator. The inflator and the air bag are 2 different parts.

https://tinyurl.com/inflator-diagram

In the Takata situation, it was the inflator itself that was breaking apart
and shooting shrapnel at drivers and passengers.

If you know of another airbag related recall, specific to the airbags
themselves, I'm all ears. I like to learn new things.

On Monday, June 4, 2018 at 12:48:13 PM UTC-4, OFWW wrote:
> On Mon, 4 Jun 2018 08:29:38 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >I have a pancake style PC air compressor. The drain valve is partly up the side
> >so that the unit has to be tipped - and balanced on one leg - in order to drain
> >it.
> >
> >There is no way that all of the water is draining out. Maybe if it was left
> >tilted for hours it might drain completely, but the location of the valve,
> >being so close to one leg, makes it impossible to leave it tilted.
> >
> >https://i.ytimg.com/vi/rJpRvWux78I/maxresdefault.jpg
> >
> >If the valve was centered between 2 legs you could easily prop the unit
> >in the tilted position, but the way they designed the valve location makes
> >that nearly impossible.
> >
> >So, we drain what we reasonably can, then set the unit upright and some water
> >is going to run back to the bottom of the tank. Even if the valve is left open,
> >I doubt there is enough air circulation for the remaining water to evaporate
> >before the next daily use.
> >
> >It seems to me that the bottom of the tank is always going to be wet and
> >therefore subject to rusting. Sure, less water means less surface area to
> >rust, but if the very bottom of the tank is "under water" 100% of the time,
> >1/16" or 1/2" isn't going to make much difference at the very bottom, is it?
> >
> >*If* the tank is going to explode due to rust, which is more dangerous:
> >
> >Having a small area (the very bottom) that rusts out and blows or letting
> >a larger area rust, spreading the release point over a larger area? Sure, it
> >will probably still be a single point of failure, but if the area around
> >the failure point is already weakened by rust, wouldn't the explosion be
> >less violent?
>
> There shouldn't be any explosion. If it rusts through it will at the
> first just bleed out air. Maybe air and water.

Do I want to rely on "shouldn't" in this situation. ;-)

Depending on who you listen to, some say leak, some say explode. Discretion,
valor, and all that. I know which way I lean. ;-)

> If your pressure relief valve isn't working then replace it.

How does one test that? I can pull the ring all day to empty the air, but
how do I know that it will blow automatically when the situation calls for
it?

I equate that with testing a GFCI. All the button tells me is that it worked
when I pressed it. It doesn't tell me that it will work when it actually
needs to. Sure, if the test fails, I'll know that it *wouldn't* have worked
when needed, but a passing test doesn't tell me that it *will* work in the
future. That last button push may have killed it.

>
> Oil less compressors are more subject to the rust problem because
> their is no oil vapors in the compressed air to coat the tank.
>
> Depending on how often your compressor is in operation should control
> how often you drain it. If in continuous use I'd say about once a
> week, once a month if used frequently.

I've been using mine for a few minutes maybe twice a week for the last month.
For example, I shot about 20 nails yesterday, another 20 last week sometime.

I don't drain it every day, but when I do, I certainly get some water out of
it. But the frequency of draining doesn't really address my question. I could
drain it every day or even every hour. There is still no way that all of
the water is going to come out based on the location of the drain, unless the
unit was left balanced on one leg, perfectly positioned so the drain is
at it's lowest point. It's a terrible design and almost assures that there
will always be water in the tank.

>
> Most of those systems will have compressor failure before a rust
> failure.

"Most". That's kind of like "shouldn't explode" isn't it? ;-)

On Tuesday, June 5, 2018 at 10:20:18 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 6/4/2018 5:45 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>
> >
> >> If your pressure relief valve isn't working then replace it.
> >
> > How does one test that? I can pull the ring all day to empty the air, but
> > how do I know that it will blow automatically when the situation calls for
> > it?
> >
>
> Not easily. Though inspection of our air tanks was mandated, the relief
> valves never were tested. Inspector would look at the rating and the
> tag. Boilers we could intentionally run up the pressure and make them
> blow or do a hydrostatic test.

I used to work on Loran-C transmitters back when I was in the USCG. 15KV-DC
plate voltage on the tubes. When a transmitter would begin to intermittently
arc and we couldn't find it via a visual inspection, we'd hook the transmitter
to the dummy load (vs. the tower), take the panels off the transmitter,
turn off the lights in the T-bldg and run the sucker up to 20KV, 25KV, until
it arcked for us. Then we'd clean out our pants and go fix the problem.

On Wednesday, June 6, 2018 at 8:57:15 PM UTC-4, OFWW wrote:
> On Wed, 06 Jun 2018 20:02:13 +0000, Spalted Walt
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >OFWW <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, 5 Jun 2018 18:16:23 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Tuesday, June 5, 2018 at 7:52:13 PM UTC-4, Michael wrote:
> >> >> On Monday, June 4, 2018 at 1:49:26 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> >> >> > On 6/4/2018 12:48 PM, OFWW wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > There shouldn't be any explosion. If it rusts through it will at the
> >> >> > > first just bleed out air. Maybe air and water. If your pressure relief
> >> >> > > valve isn't working then replace it.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Right they "should" not, but these people seem to disagree with you
> >> >> >
> >> >> > https://sites.google.com/site/metropolitanforensics/cause-of-explosion-of-air-compressor-tanks
> >> >>
> >> >> Didn't need to see that. Now I fear my compressor is going to kill me.
> >> >
> >> >Actually, this is the one that you didn't need to see.
> >> >
> >> >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVP_A7eGYxw
> >>
> >>
> >> The thing I see in common is thin tanks
> >>
> >> At this point the only thing that is worse is exploding air bags.
> >
> >With the possible exception of Takata, I think your odds for survival
> >would be far greater in the vicinity of of an "exploding air bag"
> >than an exploding air compressor.
> > "Somebody hold my beer..."
> ><https://www.youtube.com/embed/7YG7L_D_lfQ?autoplay=1&start=12&end=444&rel=0>
>
> http://money.cnn.com/2015/05/20/autos/takata-recall-list/index.html
>
> Odd, the headlines all state, "Exploding air bags", so to use the
> generic term for it no one should be flamed unless nit picking is the
> order of the day.

Fake news.

On Monday, June 4, 2018 at 8:29:10 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:

> I assume (hope) you are joking.=20

Yessir.

The compressor is probably the least dangerous tool I have on my job sites.=
Several different types of saws, nail guns, trim guns, drills, drivers, h=
ammer drills, portable table saws, heavy duty grinders, cutting torches, ch=
ain saws, portable metal bandsaws, etc., etc., etc. are of great concern. =
The air compressor, not so much.

Probably had about 50 of them over the last 40 years, and they are probably=
the ONLY tools on the job that haven't hurt someone (or me). The only fai=
lures of my compressors have been motors, compressor heads, regulators and =
only one tank failure. The tank failed because it was heavily dented, then=
when the inside crease of the dent rusted and had a slow leak after a few =
more months it was done.

It may be another of my many shortcomings, but I just don't see a compresso=
r as a source of a catastrophic failure. I work around them all day long, s=
ometimes with two or three working at the same time. I think I am the only =
one that drains their tanks regularly, and certainly the only one that chec=
ks the oil on the oil splasher regularly. Still... no dramatic failures.

Until this thread I never thought about the compressors as more then routin=
e maintenance items, tools that occasionally wear out.

Robert

On Tue, 5 Jun 2018 08:05:28 -0400, Jack <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 6/5/2018 12:49 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Monday, June 4, 2018 at 8:29:10 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>
>>> I assume (hope) you are joking.
>>
>> Yessir.
>>
>> The compressor is probably the least dangerous tool I have on my job sites. Several different types of saws, nail guns, trim guns, drills, drivers, hammer drills, portable table saws, heavy duty grinders, cutting torches, chain saws, portable metal bandsaws, etc., etc., etc. are of great concern. The air compressor, not so much.
>>
>> Probably had about 50 of them over the last 40 years, and they are probably the ONLY tools on the job that haven't hurt someone (or me). The only failures of my compressors have been motors, compressor heads, regulators and only one tank failure. The tank failed because it was heavily dented, then when the inside crease of the dent rusted and had a slow leak after a few more months it was done.
>>
>> It may be another of my many shortcomings, but I just don't see a compressor as a source of a catastrophic failure. I work around them all day long, sometimes with two or three working at the same time. I think I am the only one that drains their tanks regularly, and certainly the only one that checks the oil on the oil splasher regularly. Still... no dramatic failures.
>>
>> Until this thread I never thought about the compressors as more then routine maintenance items, tools that occasionally wear out.
>
>I'm with you on this. I have had only one compressor over the last 40+
>years and I got it used, but I rarely to almost never drain it. It's a
>30 gal, not portable one and I have a filter for water/oil/dirt. The
>filter never has water in it, and when I drain it after years it had a
>some water, not all that much.
>
>Also, I never saw or even heard of a compressor exploding, or even
>popping a hole, and I've been around them my entire life. Also, I know
>that draining out the water will not dry out the tank, and damp mixed
>with air rusts. Under water doesn't rust near as much as damp does,
>because water doesn't hold much air, so I wonder about all this
>draining, at least in non-portable tanks.
>
>And, even if I'm all wet and just lucky, I agree with the derby dude
>that if they were all that dangerous, Big Brother would require a
>license to sell, buy or use them, and people like me would be blowing
>ourselves up on a daily basis.


Used to be that all "pressure vessels" in a work place required
scheduled inspections - that's been gonefor a long time now.

I remember seeing the inspection tags on the compressor in the first
shop I worked in - they were pretty old then already.

On 6/6/2018 7:57 PM, OFWW wrote:
> On Wed, 06 Jun 2018 20:02:13 +0000, Spalted Walt
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> OFWW <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 5 Jun 2018 18:16:23 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tuesday, June 5, 2018 at 7:52:13 PM UTC-4, Michael wrote:
>>>>> On Monday, June 4, 2018 at 1:49:26 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/4/2018 12:48 PM, OFWW wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There shouldn't be any explosion. If it rusts through it will at the
>>>>>>> first just bleed out air. Maybe air and water. If your pressure relief
>>>>>>> valve isn't working then replace it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Right they "should" not, but these people seem to disagree with you
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://sites.google.com/site/metropolitanforensics/cause-of-explosion-of-air-compressor-tanks
>>>>>
>>>>> Didn't need to see that. Now I fear my compressor is going to kill me.
>>>>
>>>> Actually, this is the one that you didn't need to see.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVP_A7eGYxw
>>>
>>>
>>> The thing I see in common is thin tanks
>>>
>>> At this point the only thing that is worse is exploding air bags.
>>
>> With the possible exception of Takata, I think your odds for survival
>> would be far greater in the vicinity of of an "exploding air bag"
>> than an exploding air compressor.
>> "Somebody hold my beer..."
>> <https://www.youtube.com/embed/7YG7L_D_lfQ?autoplay=1&start=12&end=444&rel=0>
>
> http://money.cnn.com/2015/05/20/autos/takata-recall-list/index.html
>
> Odd, the headlines all state, "Exploding air bags", so to use the
> generic term for it no one should be flamed unless nit picking is the
> order of the day.
>

Just to jump in on this LOL. If the headlines say it, always remember
the media's motto. Never let the facts get in the way of a sensational
story. And then there is always false news.

On Wed, 06 Jun 2018 20:02:13 +0000, Spalted Walt
<[email protected]> wrote:

>OFWW <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 5 Jun 2018 18:16:23 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >On Tuesday, June 5, 2018 at 7:52:13 PM UTC-4, Michael wrote:
>> >> On Monday, June 4, 2018 at 1:49:26 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> >> > On 6/4/2018 12:48 PM, OFWW wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > There shouldn't be any explosion. If it rusts through it will at the
>> >> > > first just bleed out air. Maybe air and water. If your pressure relief
>> >> > > valve isn't working then replace it.
>> >> > >
>> >> >
>> >> > Right they "should" not, but these people seem to disagree with you
>> >> >
>> >> > https://sites.google.com/site/metropolitanforensics/cause-of-explosion-of-air-compressor-tanks
>> >>
>> >> Didn't need to see that. Now I fear my compressor is going to kill me.
>> >
>> >Actually, this is the one that you didn't need to see.
>> >
>> >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVP_A7eGYxw
>>
>>
>> The thing I see in common is thin tanks
>>
>> At this point the only thing that is worse is exploding air bags.
>
>With the possible exception of Takata, I think your odds for survival
>would be far greater in the vicinity of of an "exploding air bag"
>than an exploding air compressor.
> "Somebody hold my beer..."
><https://www.youtube.com/embed/7YG7L_D_lfQ?autoplay=1&start=12&end=444&rel=0>

http://money.cnn.com/2015/05/20/autos/takata-recall-list/index.html

Odd, the headlines all state, "Exploding air bags", so to use the
generic term for it no one should be flamed unless nit picking is the
order of the day.

On Mon, 4 Jun 2018 08:29:38 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:

>*If* the tank is going to explode due to rust, which is more dangerous:
>
>Having a small area (the very bottom) that rusts out and blows or letting
>a larger area rust, spreading the release point over a larger area? Sure, it
>will probably still be a single point of failure, but if the area around
>the failure point is already weakened by rust, wouldn't the explosion be
>less violent?

Well you have some experimenting to do then! ;>

On Mon, 4 Jun 2018 08:29:38 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:

>I have a pancake style PC air compressor. The drain valve is partly up the side
>so that the unit has to be tipped - and balanced on one leg - in order to drain
>it.
>
>There is no way that all of the water is draining out. Maybe if it was left
>tilted for hours it might drain completely, but the location of the valve,
>being so close to one leg, makes it impossible to leave it tilted.
>
>https://i.ytimg.com/vi/rJpRvWux78I/maxresdefault.jpg
>
>If the valve was centered between 2 legs you could easily prop the unit
>in the tilted position, but the way they designed the valve location makes
>that nearly impossible.
>
>So, we drain what we reasonably can, then set the unit upright and some water
>is going to run back to the bottom of the tank. Even if the valve is left open,
>I doubt there is enough air circulation for the remaining water to evaporate
>before the next daily use.
>
>It seems to me that the bottom of the tank is always going to be wet and
>therefore subject to rusting. Sure, less water means less surface area to
>rust, but if the very bottom of the tank is "under water" 100% of the time,
>1/16" or 1/2" isn't going to make much difference at the very bottom, is it?
>
>*If* the tank is going to explode due to rust, which is more dangerous:
>
>Having a small area (the very bottom) that rusts out and blows or letting
>a larger area rust, spreading the release point over a larger area? Sure, it
>will probably still be a single point of failure, but if the area around
>the failure point is already weakened by rust, wouldn't the explosion be
>less violent?

There shouldn't be any explosion. If it rusts through it will at the
first just bleed out air. Maybe air and water. If your pressure relief
valve isn't working then replace it.

Oil less compressors are more subject to the rust problem because
their is no oil vapors in the compressed air to coat the tank.

Depending on how often your compressor is in operation should control
how often you drain it. If in continuous use I'd say about once a
week, once a month if used frequently.

Most of those systems will have compressor failure before a rust
failure.

On 6/5/2018 12:49 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Monday, June 4, 2018 at 8:29:10 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>
>> I assume (hope) you are joking.
>
> Yessir.
>
> The compressor is probably the least dangerous tool I have on my job sites. Several different types of saws, nail guns, trim guns, drills, drivers, hammer drills, portable table saws, heavy duty grinders, cutting torches, chain saws, portable metal bandsaws, etc., etc., etc. are of great concern. The air compressor, not so much.
>
> Probably had about 50 of them over the last 40 years, and they are probably the ONLY tools on the job that haven't hurt someone (or me). The only failures of my compressors have been motors, compressor heads, regulators and only one tank failure. The tank failed because it was heavily dented, then when the inside crease of the dent rusted and had a slow leak after a few more months it was done.
>
> It may be another of my many shortcomings, but I just don't see a compressor as a source of a catastrophic failure. I work around them all day long, sometimes with two or three working at the same time. I think I am the only one that drains their tanks regularly, and certainly the only one that checks the oil on the oil splasher regularly. Still... no dramatic failures.
>
> Until this thread I never thought about the compressors as more then routine maintenance items, tools that occasionally wear out.

I'm with you on this. I have had only one compressor over the last 40+
years and I got it used, but I rarely to almost never drain it. It's a
30 gal, not portable one and I have a filter for water/oil/dirt. The
filter never has water in it, and when I drain it after years it had a
some water, not all that much.

Also, I never saw or even heard of a compressor exploding, or even
popping a hole, and I've been around them my entire life. Also, I know
that draining out the water will not dry out the tank, and damp mixed
with air rusts. Under water doesn't rust near as much as damp does,
because water doesn't hold much air, so I wonder about all this
draining, at least in non-portable tanks.

And, even if I'm all wet and just lucky, I agree with the derby dude
that if they were all that dangerous, Big Brother would require a
license to sell, buy or use them, and people like me would be blowing
ourselves up on a daily basis.

--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
http://jbstein.com

On Mon, 4 Jun 2018 08:29:38 [email protected] wrote:

> was left tilted for hours it might drain completely, but the location
> of the valve, being so close to one leg, makes it impossible to leave
> it tilted.

construct a custom stand
maybe out of wood

or just toss it and buy a new one they are under a 100 at hf

On Tue, 5 Jun 2018 16:07:51 [email protected] wrote:

> I had an "under a 100 at hf" compressor for years. The regulator,
> which never work very well to begin with, eventually stripped out. I
> bought the PC unit and 2 nail guns, NIB, for $120 on OfferUp about a
> month ago. This PC compressor is light years ahead of the HF. I don't
> know what you get for "under a 100 at hf" these days but I'll keep
> the PC.

probably as good as a pc if you bought one today but an old one
might be a keepr unless you got rust problems

take the tank and have it tested if you are inclined


oh i thought the drain valve was purposefully placed away from the
low spot to avoid rust problems at the weld

where as the smooth tank surface is less likely to have rust
incursion

On 6/5/2018 11:34 AM, Clare Snyder wrote:
> On Tue, 5 Jun 2018 08:05:28 -0400, Jack <[email protected]> wrote:

>> And, even if I'm all wet and just lucky, I agree with the derby dude
>> that if they were all that dangerous, Big Brother would require a
>> license to sell, buy or use them, and people like me would be blowing
>> ourselves up on a daily basis.

> Used to be that all "pressure vessels" in a work place required
> scheduled inspections - that's been gonefor a long time now.

Wow! A government law that went away... that's amazing in itself...

> I remember seeing the inspection tags on the compressor in the first
> shop I worked in - they were pretty old then already.

Don't remember ever seeing that. I know high pressure stuff needs to
pass some sort of inspection before being refilled, but never knew it
once existed for standard air compressors.

--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
http://jbstein.com

On 6/6/2018 10:31 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 6/5/2018 6:52 PM, Michael wrote:
>> On Monday, June 4, 2018 at 1:49:26 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>> On 6/4/2018 12:48 PM, OFWW wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> There shouldn't be any explosion. If it rusts through it will at the
>>>> first just bleed out air. Maybe air and water. If your pressure relief
>>>> valve isn't working then replace it.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Right they "should" not, but these people seem to disagree with you
>>>
>>> https://sites.google.com/site/metropolitanforensics/cause-of-explosion-of-air-compressor-tanks
>>>
>>
>> Didn't need to see that. Now I fear my compressor is going to kill me.
>
> Almost nothing is impossible.

I'll say. Check this out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dg7ohbT9O2o

--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
http://jbstein.com

The main reason I drain my big compressor is not about tank life. Its so
there is less moisture going into my drying system. I need pretty dry air
for my CNC machines, so I run a filter drier, refrigeration drier, and
another filter drier right at the tank. The second filter drier is to make
sure the refrigeration drier is working. Then each machine has a filter
drier.

Then I can also use the shop air to paint, airbrush or run fluid beds with
no worries about moisture. It does take me several minute to go through my
start up and shut down routines each day though.

On Mon, 4 Jun 2018 18:29:07 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Monday, June 4, 2018 at 7:00:22 PM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Monday, June 4, 2018 at 4:46:01 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>
>> > Depending on who you listen to, some say leak, some say explode. Discretion,
>> > valor, and all that. I know which way I lean. ;-)
>> >
>> > > If your pressure relief valve isn't working then replace it.
>> >
>> > How does one test that? I can pull the ring all day to empty the air, but
>> > how do I know that it will blow automatically when the situation calls for
>> > it?
>> >
>> > I equate that with testing a GFCI. All the button tells me is that it worked
>> > when I pressed it. It doesn't tell me that it will work when it actually
>> > needs to. Sure, if the test fails, I'll know that it *wouldn't* have worked
>> > when needed, but a passing test doesn't tell me that it *will* work in the
>> > future. That last button push may have killed it.
>>
>> > But the frequency of draining doesn't really address my question. I could
>> > drain it every day or even every hour. There is still no way that all of
>> > the water is going to come out based on the location of the drain, unless the
>> > unit was left balanced on one leg, perfectly positioned so the drain is
>> > at it's lowest point. It's a terrible design and almost assures that there
>> > will always be water in the tank.
>> >
>> > >
>> > > Most of those systems will have compressor failure before a rust
>> > > failure.
>> >
>> > "Most". That's kind of like "shouldn't explode" isn't it? ;-)
>>
>> Wow... I am now looking at my compressors completely different. Ticking time bombs? I dunno. After reading this thread I am thinkfing that I need to ditch all four of them before I am killed or at least seriously injured.
>>
>
>I assume (hope) you are joking.
>
>> Except for the compressor I use to paint, I just drain them once in a while, mostly when I think about it or before they go to storage. After reading this, it sounds like I might be playing the construction worker's version of "compressor roulette"!
>>
>> Robert
>
>As I'm sure you know, if they really were that dangerous, they wouldn't let just any shumlp
>walk into a Walmart and buy one, toss the instructions away and never drain it. Then when it's
>half filled with water, they are allowed to sell it on Craigslist with no background check or
>psychological evaluation on the buyer. ;-)
>
>Besides, that's what life insurance is for.

But it doesn't keep you alive. ;)

DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 5, 2018 at 7:52:13 PM UTC-4, Michael wrote:
>> On Monday, June 4, 2018 at 1:49:26 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> > On 6/4/2018 12:48 PM, OFWW wrote:
>> >
>> > >
>> > > There shouldn't be any explosion. If it rusts through it will at the
>> > > first just bleed out air. Maybe air and water. If your pressure relief
>> > > valve isn't working then replace it.
>> > >
>> >
>> > Right they "should" not, but these people seem to disagree with you
>> >
>> > https://sites.google.com/site/metropolitanforensics/cause-of-explosion-of-air-compressor-tanks
>>
>> Didn't need to see that. Now I fear my compressor is going to kill me.
>
> Actually, this is the one that you didn't need to see.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVP_A7eGYxw
>
The metal looks thin to me, but I don't see much rust.

--
G Ross

On Tue, 5 Jun 2018 03:28:03 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Tuesday, June 5, 2018 at 12:49:59 AM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Monday, June 4, 2018 at 8:29:10 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>
>> > I assume (hope) you are joking.
>>
>> Yessir.
>>
>> The compressor is probably the least dangerous tool I have on my job sites. Several different types of saws, nail guns, trim guns, drills, drivers, hammer drills, portable table saws, heavy duty grinders, cutting torches, chain saws, portable metal bandsaws, etc., etc., etc. are of great concern. The air compressor, not so much.
>>
>> Probably had about 50 of them over the last 40 years, and they are probably the ONLY tools on the job that haven't hurt someone (or me). The only failures of my compressors have been motors, compressor heads, regulators and only one tank failure. The tank failed because it was heavily dented, then when the inside crease of the dent rusted and had a slow leak after a few more months it was done.
>>
>> It may be another of my many shortcomings, but I just don't see a compressor as a source of a catastrophic failure. I work around them all day long, sometimes with two or three working at the same time. I think I am the only one that drains their tanks regularly, and certainly the only one that checks the oil on the oil splasher regularly. Still... no dramatic failures.
>>
>> Until this thread I never thought about the compressors as more then routine maintenance items, tools that occasionally wear out.
>>
>> Robert
>
>Thus my subject line. I think there is a lot less to this "better drain them every time or we're all
>going to die" warning than one would be led to believe by reading the labels. If it really were a
>given that they are going to rust and kill people, they wouldn't be allowed to design them like
>my PC unit that can't really be drained completely by using their suggested "tilt" process.
>
>I'm sure not going to lose any sleep over this.
Over 50 years I've seen a lot of rusted compressor tanks leak - but
never explode.
I've seen one that rubpured when it was hit under full pressure - but
it was unspectacular. That's why they are not made of hardened or high
strength steel. They can bend instead of shattering when they fail
-unlike PVC or abs piping.

On 6/5/2018 5:28 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 5, 2018 at 12:49:59 AM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Monday, June 4, 2018 at 8:29:10 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>
>>> I assume (hope) you are joking.
>>
>> Yessir.
>>
>> The compressor is probably the least dangerous tool I have on my job sites. Several different types of saws, nail guns, trim guns, drills, drivers, hammer drills, portable table saws, heavy duty grinders, cutting torches, chain saws, portable metal bandsaws, etc., etc., etc. are of great concern. The air compressor, not so much.
>>
>> Probably had about 50 of them over the last 40 years, and they are probably the ONLY tools on the job that haven't hurt someone (or me). The only failures of my compressors have been motors, compressor heads, regulators and only one tank failure. The tank failed because it was heavily dented, then when the inside crease of the dent rusted and had a slow leak after a few more months it was done.
>>
>> It may be another of my many shortcomings, but I just don't see a compressor as a source of a catastrophic failure. I work around them all day long, sometimes with two or three working at the same time. I think I am the only one that drains their tanks regularly, and certainly the only one that checks the oil on the oil splasher regularly. Still... no dramatic failures.
>>
>> Until this thread I never thought about the compressors as more then routine maintenance items, tools that occasionally wear out.
>>
>> Robert
>
> Thus my subject line. I think there is a lot less to this "better drain them every time or we're all
> going to die" warning than one would be led to believe by reading the labels. If it really were a
> given that they are going to rust and kill people, they wouldn't be allowed to design them like
> my PC unit that can't really be drained completely by using their suggested "tilt" process.
>
> I'm sure not going to lose any sleep over this.
>


Again, it is about helping to prevent water from entering the hoses and
tools.

On 6/4/2018 5:45 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

>
>> If your pressure relief valve isn't working then replace it.
>
> How does one test that? I can pull the ring all day to empty the air, but
> how do I know that it will blow automatically when the situation calls for
> it?
>

Not easily. Though inspection of our air tanks was mandated, the relief
valves never were tested. Inspector would look at the rating and the
tag. Boilers we could intentionally run up the pressure and make them
blow or do a hydrostatic test.