Hard Maple and Oak lumber are hard to sources in Central Valley CA. I know
Macbeath in Oakland, too expensive and I don't have a lumber rack on my truck.
Have no choice decide to buy Online. Thinking of buying mix 100 to 200BF (FAS)
Hard Maple (80%) and Oak (20%) in addition to plywood for 2014 Spring projects.
Anyone recommendation or advice? Thanks
On 11/15/2013 8:44 PM, Bill wrote:
> Mike Marlow wrote:
>> Bill wrote:
>>> Bill wrote:
>>>> Mike Marlow wrote:
>>>>> Bill wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> IIRC, It makes a difference whether the bark falls off the wood or
>>>>>> not. With sap=yes, Without sap = no.
>>>>> Never experienced that in all my years of cutting wood.
>>>> I never experienced it at all. I think I read it in a woodcarving
>>>> magazine. I surely didn't make it up.
>>> Here you go:
>>> http://www.walterreeves.com/gardening-q-and-a/trees-cutting-so-bark-stays-on/
>>>
>> Interesting. I wonder if that's a Hicory thing. I've cut a few trees
>> in my
>> days, and I've cut all through the year. Never saw any difference at
>> all in
>> whether the back stayed on or not. I can tell you that with cherry,
>> maple,
>> beech - this just ain't so. No matter what they say on a web site. A
>> year
>> down the road and the bark is coming off in large sheets. I promise.
>>
>> Where I live we don't have a lot of Hickory, so I don't get to see how it
>> behaves. Therefore, I can't argue with the web site in that regard,
>> but I
>> sure do know it doesn't apply to the woods I cut.
>>
> Well, I was just interested in clearing my good name. : )
> I currently have no need for bark. My wife wants a dog, but that's a
> tree of a different color.
>
What color Dog?
On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 09:27:37 -0500, "dadiOH" <[email protected]>
>occasion I have bought from places in Michigan and Wisconsin in spite of the
>increased shipping cost; the reason was that wood from the north has more
>"winter wood" and less "summer wood". If that is any consideration for you,
>you might keep it in mind.
What's the difference between Winter wood and summer wood ~ hardness?
"WD" wrote:
> Hard Maple and Oak lumber are hard to sources in Central Valley CA.
> I know
> Macbeath in Oakland, too expensive and I don't have a lumber rack on
> my truck.
> Have no choice decide to buy Online. Thinking of buying mix 100 to
> 200BF (FAS)
> Hard Maple (80%) and Oak (20%) in addition to plywood for 2014
> Spring projects.
> Anyone recommendation or advice? Thanks
-------------------------------------------
I use Anderson Int'l for all my plywood (Die Board).
They ship all over the world so shipping from Los Angeles up and
over the grapevine to you is NBD.
As far as hardwood is concerned, there are several good sources
around L/A but it has been so long since I bought any my info would be
stale.
Ever think about renting a truck and loading up to spread the shipping
costs.
BTW, MacBeath was always non competitive to the smaller customer
here in L/A.
Good luck.
http://www.aitwood.com/
Lew
Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> writes:
>On 11/15/2013 11:58 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> Bill <[email protected]> writes:
>>> On 11/15/2013 9:48 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 09:27:37 -0500, "dadiOH" <[email protected]>
>>>>> occasion I have bought from places in Michigan and Wisconsin in spite of the
>>>>> increased shipping cost; the reason was that wood from the north has more
>>>>> "winter wood" and less "summer wood". If that is any consideration for you,
>>>>> you might keep it in mind.
>>>>
>>>> What's the difference between Winter wood and summer wood ~ hardness?
>>>>
>>>
>>> I think the winter wood accounts for the dark-colored part of the annual
>>> ring, and the summer wood for the lighter-colored part.
>>>
>>> It has never occurred to me that this would vary depending on the source
>>> of the wood. Thanks dadiOH!
>>
>> It's my understanding that _when_ the wood is harvested (winter vs. summer)
>> affects the quality of the wood (sap running vs. sap not running).
>>
>> I know that we always harvested logs sent to the lumber mill on the farm during the
>> late fall (nov).
>>
>> scott
>>
>
>
>So what difference does it make, the sap runs up and down on the
>perimeter of the tree, no?
Good question. I don't believe I ever asked my Grandfather that one.
scott
On 11/15/2013 10:14 PM, Bill wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>> On 11/15/2013 8:44 PM, Bill wrote:
>>> Mike Marlow wrote:
>>>> Bill wrote:
>>>>> Bill wrote:
>>>>>> Mike Marlow wrote:
>>>>>>> Bill wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> IIRC, It makes a difference whether the bark falls off the wood or
>>>>>>>> not. With sap=yes, Without sap = no.
>>>>>>> Never experienced that in all my years of cutting wood.
>>>>>> I never experienced it at all. I think I read it in a woodcarving
>>>>>> magazine. I surely didn't make it up.
>>>>> Here you go:
>>>>> http://www.walterreeves.com/gardening-q-and-a/trees-cutting-so-bark-stays-on/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Interesting. I wonder if that's a Hicory thing. I've cut a few trees
>>>> in my
>>>> days, and I've cut all through the year. Never saw any difference at
>>>> all in
>>>> whether the back stayed on or not. I can tell you that with cherry,
>>>> maple,
>>>> beech - this just ain't so. No matter what they say on a web site. A
>>>> year
>>>> down the road and the bark is coming off in large sheets. I promise.
>>>>
>>>> Where I live we don't have a lot of Hickory, so I don't get to see
>>>> how it
>>>> behaves. Therefore, I can't argue with the web site in that regard,
>>>> but I
>>>> sure do know it doesn't apply to the woods I cut.
>>>>
>>> Well, I was just interested in clearing my good name. : )
>>> I currently have no need for bark. My wife wants a dog, but that's a
>>> tree of a different color.
>>>
>>
>> What color Dog?
> A small black terror--with sharp teeth and claws, that eats alot!
> "Stay off of my lawn!!!"
>
LOL
On 11/16/2013 8:49 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 21:36:52 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 11/15/2013 8:44 PM, Bill wrote:
>>> Mike Marlow wrote:
>>>> Bill wrote:
>>>>> Bill wrote:
>>>>>> Mike Marlow wrote:
>>>>>>> Bill wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> IIRC, It makes a difference whether the bark falls off the wood or
>>>>>>>> not. With sap=yes, Without sap = no.
>>>>>>> Never experienced that in all my years of cutting wood.
>>>>>> I never experienced it at all. I think I read it in a woodcarving
>>>>>> magazine. I surely didn't make it up.
>>>>> Here you go:
>>>>> http://www.walterreeves.com/gardening-q-and-a/trees-cutting-so-bark-stays-on/
>>>>>
>>>> Interesting. I wonder if that's a Hicory thing. I've cut a few trees
>>>> in my
>>>> days, and I've cut all through the year. Never saw any difference at
>>>> all in
>>>> whether the back stayed on or not. I can tell you that with cherry,
>>>> maple,
>>>> beech - this just ain't so. No matter what they say on a web site. A
>>>> year
>>>> down the road and the bark is coming off in large sheets. I promise.
>>>>
>>>> Where I live we don't have a lot of Hickory, so I don't get to see how it
>>>> behaves. Therefore, I can't argue with the web site in that regard,
>>>> but I
>>>> sure do know it doesn't apply to the woods I cut.
>>>>
>>> Well, I was just interested in clearing my good name. : )
>>> I currently have no need for bark. My wife wants a dog, but that's a
>>> tree of a different color.
>>>
>>
>> What color Dog?
>
> Winter or Summer?
>
Oh yeah.....;~)
On 11/15/2013 5:34 PM, dadiOH wrote:
Snip
>>>
>>> It's a matter of the ring sizes, both absolute and
>>> relative to one another. A tree that grows rapidly has
>>> wider rings than the same type of tree that grows
>>> slowly and lumber from it will appear different...wider
>>> rings, more difference between light and dark. Like
>>> that. Long summers/short winters = lumber with wider
>>> light rings.
>>
>>
>> Oh, well that makes sense.
>>
>> Still, Bill indicated the darkness of the rings was maybe
>> directly related to the season,
>
> It is. The darker wood is from when the tree was growing slowly. What I
> called "winter wood"; a better phrase is "late wood".
>
>> I was wondering if he
>> thought that would matter when selecting the boards.
>
> Depends on what one wants I guess :)
>
Boy I think this is getting out of hand. LOL
Bill indicated
I think the winter wood accounts for the dark-colored part of the annual
ring, and the summer wood for the lighter-colored part.
Regardless of when the wood is harvested the color of the rings light
and dark will always be present. IMHO, given his comment about the
color of the part of the ring being dependent on the season in which it
was growing, one should not be able to look a board cut in winter or
summer and be able to tell when it cut.
On Thu, 14 Nov 2013 22:46:47 -0800, "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>I use Anderson Int'l for all my plywood (Die Board).
>
>They ship all over the world so shipping from Los Angeles up and
>over the grapevine to you is NBD.
>
>As far as hardwood is concerned, there are several good sources
>around L/A but it has been so long since I bought any my info would be
>stale.
>
>Ever think about renting a truck and loading up to spread the shipping
>costs.
>
>BTW, MacBeath was always non competitive to the smaller customer
>here in L/A.
>
>Good luck.
>
>http://www.aitwood.com/
>
>Lew
Thanks Lew, I checked Online lumbers: "Hardwood to Go," "Steve Wall lumber,"
"Advantage Lumber" and others. I am keen calling Hardwood to go, they bundle and
don't seem to have plywood for cabinets. Advantage Lumber good price for their
closeouts. Really have no interest in exotics stuff, just plains hardwood to
upgrade old kitchen's cabinets and garage. Wish I'm back at Kansas City, where I
buy lumbers from Liberty Hardwood.
I would like to hear from anyone who has experienced buying Online, nearest CA
to reduced shipping cost. Thanks again.
On 11/15/2013 1:30 PM, dpb wrote:
> On 11/15/2013 1:16 PM, Leon wrote:
>> On 11/15/2013 12:59 PM, dpb wrote:
>>> On 11/15/2013 12:42 PM, Leon wrote:
>>> ...
Snip
> --
Ok, to get back on track, Bill indicated
I think the winter wood accounts for the dark-colored part of the annual
ring, and the summer wood for the lighter-colored part.
It has never occurred to me that this would vary depending on the source
of the wood.
I asked,
Regardless, what difference would that make?
So what I want to know is what difference does it make when harvesting
winter or summer wood whether the winter ring is dark and or the summer
ring is light?
On 11/15/2013 4:14 PM, Bill wrote:
> Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>
>> So what difference does it make, the sap runs up and down on the
>> perimeter of the tree, no?
>> Good question. I don't believe I ever asked my Grandfather that one.
>>
>> scott
> IIRC, It makes a difference whether the bark falls off the wood or not.
> With sap=yes, Without sap = no.
Well there you go again, that would make a good reason but I would think
just the opposite.
On 11/15/2013 3:19 PM, dadiOH wrote:
> "Leon" <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>> On 11/15/2013 1:30 PM, dpb wrote:
>>> On 11/15/2013 1:16 PM, Leon wrote:
>>>> On 11/15/2013 12:59 PM, dpb wrote:
>>>>> On 11/15/2013 12:42 PM, Leon wrote:
>>>>> ...
>> Snip
>>
>>
>>> --
>>
>>
>> Ok, to get back on track, Bill indicated
>>
>> I think the winter wood accounts for the dark-colored
>> part of the annual ring, and the summer wood for the
>> lighter-colored part.
>> It has never occurred to me that this would vary
>> depending on the source of the wood.
>>
>>
>> I asked,
>>
>>
>> Regardless, what difference would that make?
>>
>>
>> So what I want to know is what difference does it make
>> when harvesting winter or summer wood whether the winter
>> ring is dark and or the summer ring is light?
>
> I wasn't talking about when the tree is harvested (nor about sap wood) but
> about the conditions as it grew.
>
> It's a matter of the ring sizes, both absolute and relative to one another.
> A tree that grows rapidly has wider rings than the same type of tree that
> grows slowly and lumber from it will appear different...wider rings, more
> difference between light and dark. Like that. Long summers/short winters =
> lumber with wider light rings.
>
Oh, well that makes sense.
Still, Bill indicated the darkness of the rings was maybe directly
related to the season, I was wondering if he thought that would matter
when selecting the boards.
On 11/15/2013 3:07 PM, dadiOH wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>> On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 09:27:37 -0500, "dadiOH"
>> <[email protected]>
>>> occasion I have bought from places in Michigan and
>>> Wisconsin in spite of the increased shipping cost; the
>>> reason was that wood from the north has more "winter
>>> wood" and less "summer wood". If that is any
>>> consideration for you, you might keep it in mind.
>>
>> What's the difference between Winter wood and summer wood
>> ~ hardness?
>
> Right. And color...winter = darker/harder
>
Are you saying that the wood through out the tree is darker in the
winter? I wonder how/why the inside heart wood of the tree changes color.
On 11/15/2013 12:59 PM, dpb wrote:
> On 11/15/2013 12:42 PM, Leon wrote:
> ...
>
>> So what difference does it make, the sap runs up and down on the
>> perimeter of the tree, no?
>
> Yes, but in the "sapwood" region not the cambium layer if that's what
> you were thinking of. The new growth occurs there but the sap flow is
> actually in the woody portion--that's why it is called sapwood. (Well,
> that's a DOH! :) ).
Understood but the sapwood is also on the perimeter of the log/tree and
the part that is typically avoided for uniformity as its color is
typically off color from the majority of the inner section of the tree.
>
> The bark isn't living and provides protection. The inner bark layer is
> composed of live tissue that is the return path downward for nutrients.
> Between the bark and wood is the cambium layer which is responsible for
> increases in tree diameter by creating new annual rings.
>
> The annual rings of wood are composed of large pores that carry water up
> to the leaves. The outer 4 to 20 annual rings are usually alive and
> light-colored. Wood in the center of a large tree (referred to as
> heartwood) is composed of dark-colored, dead cells used for storage. Ray
> cells cut across the annual rings; they distribute food to living cells.
>
> So, while lumber is harvested year 'round and it really doesn't affect
> the quality of the timber, some weight and drying may be saved if wait
> for a major fraction of the sap to return to ground in fall. But,
> November probably isn't sufficiently late most places in the US to make
> any significant difference yet I'd guess.
I can see possible benefits to the harvester but to the woodworker what
would be the difference?
Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> writes:
>On 11/15/2013 1:49 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> writes:
>>> On 11/15/2013 11:58 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>> Bill <[email protected]> writes:
>>>>> On 11/15/2013 9:48 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>> On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 09:27:37 -0500, "dadiOH" <[email protected]>
>>>>>>> occasion I have bought from places in Michigan and Wisconsin in spite of the
>>>>>>> increased shipping cost; the reason was that wood from the north has more
>>>>>>> "winter wood" and less "summer wood". If that is any consideration for you,
>>>>>>> you might keep it in mind.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What's the difference between Winter wood and summer wood ~ hardness?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the winter wood accounts for the dark-colored part of the annual
>>>>> ring, and the summer wood for the lighter-colored part.
>>>>>
>>>>> It has never occurred to me that this would vary depending on the source
>>>>> of the wood. Thanks dadiOH!
>>>>
>>>> It's my understanding that _when_ the wood is harvested (winter vs. summer)
>>>> affects the quality of the wood (sap running vs. sap not running).
>>>>
>>>> I know that we always harvested logs sent to the lumber mill on the farm during the
>>>> late fall (nov).
>>>>
>>>> scott
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So what difference does it make, the sap runs up and down on the
>>> perimeter of the tree, no?
>>
>> Good question. I don't believe I ever asked my Grandfather that one.
>>
>> scott
>>
>
>Perhaps, taking down the trees in the fall there were no leaves on the
>tree to deal with.
>
Or more likely, the frozen ground (yes, it was the far north) at that
time of year made snaking them out of hte woods easier...
On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 21:36:52 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
>On 11/15/2013 8:44 PM, Bill wrote:
>> Mike Marlow wrote:
>>> Bill wrote:
>>>> Bill wrote:
>>>>> Mike Marlow wrote:
>>>>>> Bill wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> IIRC, It makes a difference whether the bark falls off the wood or
>>>>>>> not. With sap=yes, Without sap = no.
>>>>>> Never experienced that in all my years of cutting wood.
>>>>> I never experienced it at all. I think I read it in a woodcarving
>>>>> magazine. I surely didn't make it up.
>>>> Here you go:
>>>> http://www.walterreeves.com/gardening-q-and-a/trees-cutting-so-bark-stays-on/
>>>>
>>> Interesting. I wonder if that's a Hicory thing. I've cut a few trees
>>> in my
>>> days, and I've cut all through the year. Never saw any difference at
>>> all in
>>> whether the back stayed on or not. I can tell you that with cherry,
>>> maple,
>>> beech - this just ain't so. No matter what they say on a web site. A
>>> year
>>> down the road and the bark is coming off in large sheets. I promise.
>>>
>>> Where I live we don't have a lot of Hickory, so I don't get to see how it
>>> behaves. Therefore, I can't argue with the web site in that regard,
>>> but I
>>> sure do know it doesn't apply to the woods I cut.
>>>
>> Well, I was just interested in clearing my good name. : )
>> I currently have no need for bark. My wife wants a dog, but that's a
>> tree of a different color.
>>
>
>What color Dog?
Winter or Summer?
On 11/15/2013 10:59 AM, Bill wrote:
> On 11/15/2013 9:48 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 09:27:37 -0500, "dadiOH" <[email protected]>
>>> occasion I have bought from places in Michigan and Wisconsin in spite
>>> of the
>>> increased shipping cost; the reason was that wood from the north has
>>> more
>>> "winter wood" and less "summer wood". If that is any consideration
>>> for you,
>>> you might keep it in mind.
>>
>> What's the difference between Winter wood and summer wood ~ hardness?
>>
>
> I think the winter wood accounts for the dark-colored part of the annual
> ring, and the summer wood for the lighter-colored part.
>
> It has never occurred to me that this would vary depending on the source
> of the wood. Thanks dadiOH!
>
>
> Bill
Regardless, what difference would that make?
On 11/15/2013 1:49 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> writes:
>> On 11/15/2013 11:58 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>> Bill <[email protected]> writes:
>>>> On 11/15/2013 9:48 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 09:27:37 -0500, "dadiOH" <[email protected]>
>>>>>> occasion I have bought from places in Michigan and Wisconsin in spite of the
>>>>>> increased shipping cost; the reason was that wood from the north has more
>>>>>> "winter wood" and less "summer wood". If that is any consideration for you,
>>>>>> you might keep it in mind.
>>>>>
>>>>> What's the difference between Winter wood and summer wood ~ hardness?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I think the winter wood accounts for the dark-colored part of the annual
>>>> ring, and the summer wood for the lighter-colored part.
>>>>
>>>> It has never occurred to me that this would vary depending on the source
>>>> of the wood. Thanks dadiOH!
>>>
>>> It's my understanding that _when_ the wood is harvested (winter vs. summer)
>>> affects the quality of the wood (sap running vs. sap not running).
>>>
>>> I know that we always harvested logs sent to the lumber mill on the farm during the
>>> late fall (nov).
>>>
>>> scott
>>>
>>
>>
>> So what difference does it make, the sap runs up and down on the
>> perimeter of the tree, no?
>
> Good question. I don't believe I ever asked my Grandfather that one.
>
> scott
>
Perhaps, taking down the trees in the fall there were no leaves on the
tree to deal with.
"WD" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Hard Maple and Oak lumber are hard to sources in Central
> Valley CA. I know Macbeath in Oakland, too expensive and
> I don't have a lumber rack on my truck. Have no choice
> decide to buy Online. Thinking of buying mix 100 to 200BF
> (FAS) Hard Maple (80%) and Oak (20%) in addition to
> plywood for 2014 Spring projects. Anyone recommendation
> or advice? Thanks
I'm in Florida so the places where I buy - usually in North Carolina -
wouldn't be cost effective for you due to the shipping. However, on
occasion I have bought from places in Michigan and Wisconsin in spite of the
increased shipping cost; the reason was that wood from the north has more
"winter wood" and less "summer wood". If that is any consideration for you,
you might keep it in mind.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net
On 11/15/2013 9:48 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 09:27:37 -0500, "dadiOH" <[email protected]>
>> occasion I have bought from places in Michigan and Wisconsin in spite of the
>> increased shipping cost; the reason was that wood from the north has more
>> "winter wood" and less "summer wood". If that is any consideration for you,
>> you might keep it in mind.
>
> What's the difference between Winter wood and summer wood ~ hardness?
>
I think the winter wood accounts for the dark-colored part of the annual
ring, and the summer wood for the lighter-colored part.
It has never occurred to me that this would vary depending on the source
of the wood. Thanks dadiOH!
Bill
On 11/15/2013 12:42 PM, Leon wrote:
...
> So what difference does it make, the sap runs up and down on the
> perimeter of the tree, no?
Yes, but in the "sapwood" region not the cambium layer if that's what
you were thinking of. The new growth occurs there but the sap flow is
actually in the woody portion--that's why it is called sapwood. (Well,
that's a DOH! :) ).
The bark isn't living and provides protection. The inner bark layer is
composed of live tissue that is the return path downward for nutrients.
Between the bark and wood is the cambium layer which is responsible for
increases in tree diameter by creating new annual rings.
The annual rings of wood are composed of large pores that carry water up
to the leaves. The outer 4 to 20 annual rings are usually alive and
light-colored. Wood in the center of a large tree (referred to as
heartwood) is composed of dark-colored, dead cells used for storage. Ray
cells cut across the annual rings; they distribute food to living cells.
So, while lumber is harvested year 'round and it really doesn't affect
the quality of the timber, some weight and drying may be saved if wait
for a major fraction of the sap to return to ground in fall. But,
November probably isn't sufficiently late most places in the US to make
any significant difference yet I'd guess.
--
On 11/15/2013 1:16 PM, Leon wrote:
> On 11/15/2013 12:59 PM, dpb wrote:
>> On 11/15/2013 12:42 PM, Leon wrote:
>> ...
>>
>>> So what difference does it make, the sap runs up and down on the
>>> perimeter of the tree, no?
>>
>> Yes, but in the "sapwood" region not the cambium layer if that's what
>> you were thinking of. The new growth occurs there but the sap flow is
>> actually in the woody portion--that's why it is called sapwood. (Well,
>> that's a DOH! :) ).
>
> Understood but the sapwood is also on the perimeter of the log/tree and
> the part that is typically avoided for uniformity as its color is
> typically off color from the majority of the inner section of the tree.
...
True, but...
Sapwood is _not_ a defect in hardwood grading -- it all counts the same.
It's just the end-user may find it of less utility.
Walnut is probably the most known of the US furniture woods for its
extreme variation. But, you'll pay the same bd-ft price based on the
net dimensions from the mill for the sapwood as for the center
heartwood. Then again, there are practical rules in grading that they
can't selectively cull the sapwood into a bundle and hide it,
either--they'll have a problem w/ their customer base big time if try that.
OTOH, as an analogy, in a former life did online coal ash
analyzers...one use for them that was always a little unnerving was at
loadout stations where suppliers actually used them to blend clean coal
with dirty to make an overall trainload hit right at or as just under
the contract ash content as possible...
I did get to thinking a little more on the practicalities -- I've not
actually got any direct data to know and the larger mills in VA from
which I used to buy had so much on hand it was often months or even a
couple of years from the time a log was felled before it was milled, but
on those volumes even a small reduction in input energy costs would
really add up to major bucks.
When I was there and doing that much buying, though, energy prices were
pretty far down on anybody's radar as a cost factor. They might be more
for trying to optimize that now, I don't know...
--
On 11/15/2013 1:49 PM, Leon wrote:
...big snip of what is apparently unintended context for brevity...
> So what I want to know is what difference does it make when harvesting
> winter or summer wood whether the winter ring is dark and or the summer
> ring is light?
As explanation of where I was coming from as a prelude, reading in
context what shows up in the reader here surely looks like the question
was regarding the sapwood and moisture and timing of felling...if not,
sorry.
The answer to the above question is "nothing". It is what it is owing
to the species characteristics.
--
On 11/14/2013 10:51 PM, WD wrote:
>
> Hard Maple and Oak lumber are hard to sources in Central Valley CA. I know
> Macbeath in Oakland, too expensive and I don't have a lumber rack on my truck.
> Have no choice decide to buy Online. Thinking of buying mix 100 to 200BF (FAS)
> Hard Maple (80%) and Oak (20%) in addition to plywood for 2014 Spring projects.
> Anyone recommendation or advice? Thanks
Don't know anybody in CA directly and not even sure where in CA Central
Valley is, but...
I'd suggest
a) rent a trailer and
b) surely there's a local cabinet shop or other large user from which to
find their sources and
c) unless really, really need it for a few specific surface pieces, I
find 1C is a much better buy.
--
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 09:27:37 -0500, "dadiOH"
> <[email protected]>
> > occasion I have bought from places in Michigan and
> > Wisconsin in spite of the increased shipping cost; the
> > reason was that wood from the north has more "winter
> > wood" and less "summer wood". If that is any
> > consideration for you, you might keep it in mind.
>
> What's the difference between Winter wood and summer wood
> ~ hardness?
Right. And color...winter = darker/harder
--
dadiOH
____________________________
Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net
"Leon" <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> On 11/15/2013 1:30 PM, dpb wrote:
> > On 11/15/2013 1:16 PM, Leon wrote:
> > > On 11/15/2013 12:59 PM, dpb wrote:
> > > > On 11/15/2013 12:42 PM, Leon wrote:
> > > > ...
> Snip
>
>
> > --
>
>
> Ok, to get back on track, Bill indicated
>
> I think the winter wood accounts for the dark-colored
> part of the annual ring, and the summer wood for the
> lighter-colored part.
> It has never occurred to me that this would vary
> depending on the source of the wood.
>
>
> I asked,
>
>
> Regardless, what difference would that make?
>
>
> So what I want to know is what difference does it make
> when harvesting winter or summer wood whether the winter
> ring is dark and or the summer ring is light?
I wasn't talking about when the tree is harvested (nor about sap wood) but
about the conditions as it grew.
It's a matter of the ring sizes, both absolute and relative to one another.
A tree that grows rapidly has wider rings than the same type of tree that
grows slowly and lumber from it will appear different...wider rings, more
difference between light and dark. Like that. Long summers/short winters =
lumber with wider light rings.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net
"Leon" <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> On 11/15/2013 3:19 PM, dadiOH wrote:
> > "Leon" <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]
> > > On 11/15/2013 1:30 PM, dpb wrote:
> > > > On 11/15/2013 1:16 PM, Leon wrote:
> > > > > On 11/15/2013 12:59 PM, dpb wrote:
> > > > > > On 11/15/2013 12:42 PM, Leon wrote:
> > > > > > ...
> > > Snip
> > >
> > >
> > > > --
> > >
> > >
> > > Ok, to get back on track, Bill indicated
> > >
> > > I think the winter wood accounts for the dark-colored
> > > part of the annual ring, and the summer wood for the
> > > lighter-colored part.
> > > It has never occurred to me that this would vary
> > > depending on the source of the wood.
> > >
> > >
> > > I asked,
> > >
> > >
> > > Regardless, what difference would that make?
> > >
> > >
> > > So what I want to know is what difference does it make
> > > when harvesting winter or summer wood whether the
> > > winter ring is dark and or the summer ring is light?
> >
> > I wasn't talking about when the tree is harvested (nor
> > about sap wood) but about the conditions as it grew.
> >
> > It's a matter of the ring sizes, both absolute and
> > relative to one another. A tree that grows rapidly has
> > wider rings than the same type of tree that grows
> > slowly and lumber from it will appear different...wider
> > rings, more difference between light and dark. Like
> > that. Long summers/short winters = lumber with wider
> > light rings.
>
>
> Oh, well that makes sense.
>
> Still, Bill indicated the darkness of the rings was maybe
> directly related to the season,
It is. The darker wood is from when the tree was growing slowly. What I
called "winter wood"; a better phrase is "late wood".
> I was wondering if he
> thought that would matter when selecting the boards.
Depends on what one wants I guess :)
--
dadiOH
____________________________
Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net
Leon wrote:
> On 11/15/2013 3:07 PM, dadiOH wrote:
>> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]
>>> On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 09:27:37 -0500, "dadiOH"
>>> <[email protected]>
>>>> occasion I have bought from places in Michigan and
>>>> Wisconsin in spite of the increased shipping cost; the
>>>> reason was that wood from the north has more "winter
>>>> wood" and less "summer wood". If that is any
>>>> consideration for you, you might keep it in mind.
>>>
>>> What's the difference between Winter wood and summer wood
>>> ~ hardness?
>>
>> Right. And color...winter = darker/harder
>>
>
>
> Are you saying that the wood through out the tree is darker in the
> winter?
No. dadiOH was saying that where your wood was grown will affect the
growth rings (the width corresponding to the amount of spring/summer
growth, versus winter growth (the darker part)).
I know that the season in which one cuts the wood affects whether the
bark stays on easily or not. IIRC, if there is sap close to the cambium
layer, then the bark can release (fall off) easier.
There were some sidetracks in this thread. I host this helps to clear
things up. I already designated dadiOH I the person with the most
knowledge on the matter. So I have let him answer before me.
Bill
> I wonder how/why the inside heart wood of the tree changes color.
Bill wrote:
> IIRC, It makes a difference whether the bark falls off the wood or
> not. With sap=yes, Without sap = no.
Never experienced that in all my years of cutting wood.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Mike Marlow wrote:
> Bill wrote:
>
>> IIRC, It makes a difference whether the bark falls off the wood or
>> not. With sap=yes, Without sap = no.
> Never experienced that in all my years of cutting wood.
I never experienced it at all. I think I read it in a woodcarving
magazine. I surely didn't make it up.
>
Bill wrote:
> Mike Marlow wrote:
>> Bill wrote:
>>
>>> IIRC, It makes a difference whether the bark falls off the wood or
>>> not. With sap=yes, Without sap = no.
>> Never experienced that in all my years of cutting wood.
>
> I never experienced it at all. I think I read it in a woodcarving
> magazine. I surely didn't make it up.
>>
>
Here you go:
http://www.walterreeves.com/gardening-q-and-a/trees-cutting-so-bark-stays-on/
Bill wrote:
> Bill wrote:
>> Mike Marlow wrote:
>>> Bill wrote:
>>>
>>>> IIRC, It makes a difference whether the bark falls off the wood or
>>>> not. With sap=yes, Without sap = no.
>>> Never experienced that in all my years of cutting wood.
>>
>> I never experienced it at all. I think I read it in a woodcarving
>> magazine. I surely didn't make it up.
>>>
>>
> Here you go:
> http://www.walterreeves.com/gardening-q-and-a/trees-cutting-so-bark-stays-on/
Interesting. I wonder if that's a Hicory thing. I've cut a few trees in my
days, and I've cut all through the year. Never saw any difference at all in
whether the back stayed on or not. I can tell you that with cherry, maple,
beech - this just ain't so. No matter what they say on a web site. A year
down the road and the bark is coming off in large sheets. I promise.
Where I live we don't have a lot of Hickory, so I don't get to see how it
behaves. Therefore, I can't argue with the web site in that regard, but I
sure do know it doesn't apply to the woods I cut.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Mike Marlow wrote:
> Bill wrote:
>> Bill wrote:
>>> Mike Marlow wrote:
>>>> Bill wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> IIRC, It makes a difference whether the bark falls off the wood or
>>>>> not. With sap=yes, Without sap = no.
>>>> Never experienced that in all my years of cutting wood.
>>> I never experienced it at all. I think I read it in a woodcarving
>>> magazine. I surely didn't make it up.
>> Here you go:
>> http://www.walterreeves.com/gardening-q-and-a/trees-cutting-so-bark-stays-on/
> Interesting. I wonder if that's a Hicory thing. I've cut a few trees in my
> days, and I've cut all through the year. Never saw any difference at all in
> whether the back stayed on or not. I can tell you that with cherry, maple,
> beech - this just ain't so. No matter what they say on a web site. A year
> down the road and the bark is coming off in large sheets. I promise.
>
> Where I live we don't have a lot of Hickory, so I don't get to see how it
> behaves. Therefore, I can't argue with the web site in that regard, but I
> sure do know it doesn't apply to the woods I cut.
>
Well, I was just interested in clearing my good name. : )
I currently have no need for bark. My wife wants a dog, but that's a
tree of a different color.
Bill wrote:
> Well, I was just interested in clearing my good name. : )
> I currently have no need for bark. My wife wants a dog, but that's a
> tree of a different color.
Very good!
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Leon wrote:
> On 11/15/2013 8:44 PM, Bill wrote:
>> Mike Marlow wrote:
>>> Bill wrote:
>>>> Bill wrote:
>>>>> Mike Marlow wrote:
>>>>>> Bill wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> IIRC, It makes a difference whether the bark falls off the wood or
>>>>>>> not. With sap=yes, Without sap = no.
>>>>>> Never experienced that in all my years of cutting wood.
>>>>> I never experienced it at all. I think I read it in a woodcarving
>>>>> magazine. I surely didn't make it up.
>>>> Here you go:
>>>> http://www.walterreeves.com/gardening-q-and-a/trees-cutting-so-bark-stays-on/
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Interesting. I wonder if that's a Hicory thing. I've cut a few trees
>>> in my
>>> days, and I've cut all through the year. Never saw any difference at
>>> all in
>>> whether the back stayed on or not. I can tell you that with cherry,
>>> maple,
>>> beech - this just ain't so. No matter what they say on a web site. A
>>> year
>>> down the road and the bark is coming off in large sheets. I promise.
>>>
>>> Where I live we don't have a lot of Hickory, so I don't get to see
>>> how it
>>> behaves. Therefore, I can't argue with the web site in that regard,
>>> but I
>>> sure do know it doesn't apply to the woods I cut.
>>>
>> Well, I was just interested in clearing my good name. : )
>> I currently have no need for bark. My wife wants a dog, but that's a
>> tree of a different color.
>>
>
> What color Dog?
A small black terror--with sharp teeth and claws, that eats alot!
"Stay off of my lawn!!!"
Bill wrote:
> A small black terror--with sharp teeth and claws, that eats alot!
> "Stay off of my lawn!!!"
Oh - one of those ankle snappers! They just want to be bigger than they
are...
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
"Leon" <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> On 11/15/2013 5:34 PM, dadiOH wrote:
> Snip
>
>
> > > >
> > > > It's a matter of the ring sizes, both absolute and
> > > > relative to one another. A tree that grows rapidly
> > > > has wider rings than the same type of tree that
> > > > grows slowly and lumber from it will appear
> > > > different...wider rings, more difference between
> > > > light and dark. Like that. Long summers/short
> > > > winters = lumber with wider light rings.
> > >
> > >
> > > Oh, well that makes sense.
> > >
> > > Still, Bill indicated the darkness of the rings was
> > > maybe directly related to the season,
> >
> > It is. The darker wood is from when the tree was
> > growing slowly. What I called "winter wood"; a better
> > phrase is "late wood".
> > > I was wondering if he
> > > thought that would matter when selecting the boards.
> >
> > Depends on what one wants I guess :)
> >
>
>
> Boy I think this is getting out of hand. LOL
>
> Bill indicated
>
> I think the winter wood accounts for the dark-colored
> part of the annual ring, and the summer wood for the
> lighter-colored part.
>
> Regardless of when the wood is harvested the color of the
> rings light and dark will always be present. IMHO,
> given his comment about the color of the part of the ring
> being dependent on the season in which it was growing,
> one should not be able to look a board cut in winter or
> summer and be able to tell when it cut.
Right.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net
"Bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> There were some sidetracks in this thread. I host this
> helps to clear things up. I already designated dadiOH I
> the person with the most knowledge on the matter. So I
> have let him answer before me.
I am able to sometimes bring the world relatively useless information that
is sometimes accurate. The rest of the time I just make stuff up :)
--
dadiOH
____________________________
Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net
On 11/15/2013 11:58 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Bill <[email protected]> writes:
>> On 11/15/2013 9:48 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 09:27:37 -0500, "dadiOH" <[email protected]>
>>>> occasion I have bought from places in Michigan and Wisconsin in spite of the
>>>> increased shipping cost; the reason was that wood from the north has more
>>>> "winter wood" and less "summer wood". If that is any consideration for you,
>>>> you might keep it in mind.
>>>
>>> What's the difference between Winter wood and summer wood ~ hardness?
>>>
>>
>> I think the winter wood accounts for the dark-colored part of the annual
>> ring, and the summer wood for the lighter-colored part.
>>
>> It has never occurred to me that this would vary depending on the source
>> of the wood. Thanks dadiOH!
>
> It's my understanding that _when_ the wood is harvested (winter vs. summer)
> affects the quality of the wood (sap running vs. sap not running).
>
> I know that we always harvested logs sent to the lumber mill on the farm during the
> late fall (nov).
>
> scott
>
So what difference does it make, the sap runs up and down on the
perimeter of the tree, no?
WD <[email protected]> writes:
>
>Hard Maple and Oak lumber are hard to sources in Central Valley CA. I know
>Macbeath in Oakland, too expensive and I don't have a lumber rack on my truck.
>Have no choice decide to buy Online. Thinking of buying mix 100 to 200BF (FAS)
>Hard Maple (80%) and Oak (20%) in addition to plywood for 2014 Spring projects.
>Anyone recommendation or advice? Thanks
Jackel Enterprises in watsonville. I get oak there, often for less than $3/bf. I
buy most of my wood there.
http://jackelenterprises.com/inventory/inventory-hardwoods.htm
Claro is available from Baker in gilroy, but $$$. Nice, wide slabs tho.
http://www.bakerhardwoods.com/
Global Wood Source in Santa Clara:
http://www.globalwoodsource.com/
scott
Bill <[email protected]> writes:
>On 11/15/2013 9:48 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 09:27:37 -0500, "dadiOH" <[email protected]>
>>> occasion I have bought from places in Michigan and Wisconsin in spite of the
>>> increased shipping cost; the reason was that wood from the north has more
>>> "winter wood" and less "summer wood". If that is any consideration for you,
>>> you might keep it in mind.
>>
>> What's the difference between Winter wood and summer wood ~ hardness?
>>
>
>I think the winter wood accounts for the dark-colored part of the annual
>ring, and the summer wood for the lighter-colored part.
>
>It has never occurred to me that this would vary depending on the source
>of the wood. Thanks dadiOH!
It's my understanding that _when_ the wood is harvested (winter vs. summer)
affects the quality of the wood (sap running vs. sap not running).
I know that we always harvested logs sent to the lumber mill on the farm during the
late fall (nov).
scott