Awl --
Well, not bad for a home-moaner..... :)
My buddy picked up the HF pressurized paint pot
http://www.harborfreight.com/2-1-2-half-gallon-pressure-paint-tank-66839.html
A hose from this pot replaces the siphon cup on the gun. So now I have
quite the contraption, and it works!! I now have T1-11 gates (about 100 sq
ft worth) painted in Glidden's Dark French Chocolate (exterior
semi-gloss) -- which is like black with purple mixed in. LOL
Here's what was inneresting:
I used old otherwise unusable HF black airhose (3/8" id) -- do not buy
this stuff for regular compressor air, it springs more leaks than a sieve --
as the paint hose and thought all I would need would be a piddling 5-10 lbs
of "pot pressure", but what a surprise when I blew out the hose at the end
of the job, with straight compressor air, which had to "work" a little bit!!
So it became clear that 40# is more realistic, for about 15 ft worth of
hose. I could see this being much higher if working off, say, 24' ladder,
but then you can hang this pot, so you don't wind up with unmanageable
lengths of paint hose.
I didn't thin the paint, had about 30-40# of gun air while spraying. Yet,
it kind of rapid-sputtered after a while, after being smooth-continuous.
Still, it was rapid enough that it did not seem to affect the paint job --
which turned out great, and FAST.... the wife, who brush-painted the prime
coat a few days before (and is STILL cryin over that job) was hilariously
aggressive with this thing, seemed to be going for speed records. If there
were no experimentation/marevelling at this new method, I think those gates
would have taken about 2-3 minutes, for one person, vs. about an hour for
two people.
But I am curious as to what that sputtering was about. Not enough paint
pressure? Hmmm, it may have been much higher in the beginning, before I
made it too low? Maybe I'll try thinning the paint as well, on the second
coat.
The HF paint pot itself is OK.... you really have to torque down the clamp
screws, I can see this being a problem later. But, the pot is heavy,
sturdy, so if the top doesn't warp, I'll hopefully be OK.
Nowhere near the quality of the old Sears unit I used in 1980, tho. The
pressure regulator is so-so, certainly not precision, but it pressurized the
paint.
Seems to be a generic design for a bunch of labels. Grizzly has a wild one,
with a stirrer and wheels!
http://www.grizzly.com/products/2-1-2-gal-Paint-Tank-w-Gauges/H6329 .
The job went so quick I really didn't have much time to experiment! Very
economical with paint, less than 1/2 gal on almost 100 sq ft of .T1-11,
which has to be THE thirstiest surface on the planet, short of cloth!
What can one use as quick disconnects for the paint line? I doubt whether
air quick disconnects would work.... for long! I'm thinking of just
putting two 3/8 threaded unions at each end of the paint hose??
Pretty easy clean up, altho coordination is a bit of an issue, what with all
the hose, parts, etc. Blew out the hose back into the paint can, cleaned
the system with about a gallon of water, in place of paint.
Oh, the plumbing for this can be a bit of a handful, if you are not familiar
with air and plumbing fittings.
The paint hose fittings, on both the gun and the pot, seem to be some kind
of hose/compression whatsit, which my hardware guy didn't recognize, but
fortunately the thread seems to be a perfect match for 3/8 threads, so an
assortment of reducing couplings (to1/4), hose barbs, quick disonnects for
the air, etc, and the unit was running.
A bit easier said than done, could have been pretty pricey if I didn't have
most of that stuff laying around. I used brass so as not to screw up the
threads too much, if the fit wasn't exact.
My buddy did some research into this, and whole-package units will spare
anyone all the diy puttering. Still, a bit hard to find, it seems to me.
But, my contraption-esque creation is less dependent on oem stuff, so I can
mix/match as needed.
Anyway, appreciate all the previous advice, really helped the setup and the
job. A lot of stuff is going to go a lot faster around here!
--
EA
In article <[email protected]>, Existential Angst
<[email protected]> wrote:
> But I am curious as to what that sputtering was about. Not enough paint
> pressure? Hmmm, it may have been much higher in the beginning, before I
> made it too low? Maybe I'll try thinning the paint as well, on the second
> coat.
I spray stain and topcoats, not paint, but when I get sputtering I
refilter what I'm spraying. My guess is there may have been small
"chunks" that clogged the nozzle tip slightly. Thinning may help, but
filtering is best. Your paint supplier should have the appropriate size
screen and empty paint cans to pour into.
--
I used to like fishing because I thought it had some larger significance. Now I
like fishing because it¹s the one thing I can think of that probably doesn¹t.
John Gierach
In article <[email protected]>, Mike Marlow
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Mike Marlow wrote:
> > Dave Balderstone wrote:
> >> In article <[email protected]>, Existential Angst
> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >>> But I am curious as to what that sputtering was about. Not enough
> >>> paint pressure? Hmmm, it may have been much higher in the
> >>> beginning, before I made it too low? Maybe I'll try thinning the
> >>> paint as well, on the second coat.
> >>
> >> I spray stain and topcoats, not paint, but when I get sputtering I
> >> refilter what I'm spraying. My guess is there may have been small
> >> "chunks" that clogged the nozzle tip slightly. Thinning may help, but
> >> filtering is best. Your paint supplier should have the appropriate
> >> size screen and empty paint cans to pour into.
> >
> > If you used a strainer when you first filled your gun (you always
> > should - no exceptions...), then you should not need to re-strain it
> > during use. If you are doing so, you are probably treating a
> > different problem that you just aren't realizing. Sputtering is
> > generally a sign of an impeded delivery of the material, which is
> > generally more related to the gun than the material itself - unless
> > you excede the pot life of the material. If the later is the case,
> > you should be throwing away the material.
>
> Correction to my own post above - brain fart...
>
> If you are using a suction gun, check for a clogged vent in the cup. That
> is the primary cause of sputtering in a suction gun.
I use a turbine HVLP system (Apollo) but sometimes the urethane sits in
the pot overnight. Sputtering on this system is extremely rare, though.
I'm switching almost entirely to the 3M PPS Paint Preparation System
<http://www.woodessence.com/3M-Paint-Preparation-System-C47.aspx>,
rather than using the pot that comes with the gun. Cleanup is a breeze,
and it's really easy to switch between stains and topcoats for the
small jobs (which is most of what I do).
The cups integrate a strainer, so the material is double strained. Once
into the pot, and then again at delivery to the gun.
--
I used to like fishing because I thought it had some larger significance. Now I
like fishing because it¹s the one thing I can think of that probably doesn¹t.
John Gierach
In article <[email protected]>, Mike Marlow
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Dave Balderstone wrote:
>
> >
> > I use a turbine HVLP system (Apollo) but sometimes the urethane sits
> > in the pot overnight. Sputtering on this system is extremely rare,
> > though.
>
> Ahhhh - sorry. I withdraw any comments relative to that kind of paint
> system, as I know absolutely nothing about them Got caught speaking from my
> own point of reference and did not consider your turbine.
I really like the turbine. The unit is very portable, which makes it
easy-peasy to take onsite.
> I am quite
> surprised you can let your urethane sit in your gun that long though. I
> would not have expected that to work well.
Haven't had any real problems as long as I make sure the nozzle is
clean when I stop for the night.
>
> >
> > I'm switching almost entirely to the 3M PPS Paint Preparation System
> > <http://www.woodessence.com/3M-Paint-Preparation-System-C47.aspx>,
> > rather than using the pot that comes with the gun. Cleanup is a
> > breeze, and it's really easy to switch between stains and topcoats
> > for the small jobs (which is most of what I do).
> >
>
> I've toyed with the idea of going to a cup system like this for my gravity
> gun. It would certainly reduce cleaning time between base coat and clear
> coat, as well as final cleaning time. Just never pulled the trigger on the
> idea. I only have one good gravity gun, so I have to do a rather thorough
> cleaning between base and clear which uses more lacquer thinner and takes
> more time. I really need to get a second gravity gun so that I can use one
> for base and one for clear, but even at that, this type of system still
> makes a lot of sense. But... I say that about a lot of good ideas, and
> then... well, you know...
I'm considering a second gun, but the one I want is spendy ($300+) so
it will have to wait for a good justification (like being busy enough
that it makes sense).
--
I used to like fishing because I thought it had some larger significance. Now I
like fishing because it¹s the one thing I can think of that probably doesn¹t.
John Gierach
Mike Marlow wrote:
> Dave Balderstone wrote:
>> In article <[email protected]>, Existential Angst
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> But I am curious as to what that sputtering was about. Not enough
>>> paint pressure? Hmmm, it may have been much higher in the
>>> beginning, before I made it too low? Maybe I'll try thinning the
>>> paint as well, on the second coat.
>>
>> I spray stain and topcoats, not paint, but when I get sputtering I
>> refilter what I'm spraying. My guess is there may have been small
>> "chunks" that clogged the nozzle tip slightly. Thinning may help, but
>> filtering is best. Your paint supplier should have the appropriate
>> size screen and empty paint cans to pour into.
>
> If you used a strainer when you first filled your gun (you always
> should - no exceptions...), then you should not need to re-strain it
> during use. If you are doing so, you are probably treating a
> different problem that you just aren't realizing. Sputtering is
> generally a sign of an impeded delivery of the material, which is
> generally more related to the gun than the material itself - unless
> you excede the pot life of the material. If the later is the case,
> you should be throwing away the material.
Correction to my own post above - brain fart...
If you are using a suction gun, check for a clogged vent in the cup. That
is the primary cause of sputtering in a suction gun.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Existential Angst wrote:
>> Awl --
>>
>> Well, not bad for a home-moaner..... :)
>>
>> My buddy picked up the HF pressurized paint pot
>> http://www.harborfreight.com/2-1-2-half-gallon-pressure-paint-tank-66839.html
>>
>> A hose from this pot replaces the siphon cup on the gun. So now I
>> have quite the contraption, and it works!! I now have T1-11 gates
>> (about 100 sq ft worth) painted in Glidden's Dark French Chocolate
>> (exterior semi-gloss) -- which is like black with purple mixed in. LOL
>
> How about posting some picture of your setup and your gates over in the
> binaries group, or on a web site and post the url here? Would like to see
> what you ended up with.
Woe is my pyooter ilitiricy..... but my BIL is a brighter pyooter bulb, so
I'll holler when he comes over.
You proly wouldn't be able to make out the subtlety of that Glidden color
(GLN22), and indeed even the paint chip at HD under those fluorescents
(sposedly color-friendly) didn't quite get it (purple in black), but it
winds up being a very inneresting change to plain ole Tudor Brown. It's
certainly dark, but not at all so black that Rustoleum gloss black won't
still really stand out.
The theme is carriage-house style doors, pictured
http://www.concretecottage.com/custom-garage-doors.htm go down to "real
carriage house doors" about 5 pics down or so. Mine are not that fancy (no
glass, not hardwood -- T1-11), but have the curve, lines, etc, and I will
cut/weld together the big carriage-door hardware you usually see, but
strangely not in that link. Strictly security/privacy in a driveway -- a
deceptively very difficult installation given the overall topology of the
driveway, and given that there is no door frame. But the painting was done
in lit'ly minutes!!! LOL
I did some fencing in Sweet Tea (GLO28 -- letter "oh"), a lighter, redder
brown, so the two are nice variants on the brown theme, without clashing.
Next time yer at HD, check these chips out.
Did you know that you can't buy primary or standard colors premixed any
more? Unless it's quarts of rustoleum....
I couldn't believe it when they had to mix black gloss for me.....
unbelievable.....
BUT, otoh, now I got Dark French Chocolate.... LOL
>
>>
>> Here's what was inneresting:
>> I used old otherwise unusable HF black airhose (3/8" id) -- do not
>> buy this stuff for regular compressor air, it springs more leaks than
>> a sieve -- as the paint hose and thought all I would need would be a
>> piddling 5-10 lbs of "pot pressure", but what a surprise when I blew
>> out the hose at the end of the job, with straight compressor air,
>> which had to "work" a little bit!! So it became clear that 40# is
>> more realistic, for about 15 ft worth of hose. I could see this
>> being much higher if working off, say, 24' ladder, but then you can
>> hang this pot, so you don't wind up with unmanageable lengths of
>> paint hose.
>
> I've never used one of these paint pots, but this experience does not
> surprise me. Most folks don't realize how much pressure drop occurs in
> just a length of hose, let alone factoring in trying to move a fairly
> viscous material. That said - it's great that you posted this level of
> detailed observation. Very helpful for those of us who may try this very
> thing ourselves in the future.
Not only would it not budge by mouth, 80-100 psi hesitated to move it, for a
second or two -- one of them "oh shit" two seconds.... But then it came
out. So indeed, no piddly 5 psi for a paint pot!!
>
>> I didn't thin the paint, had about 30-40# of gun air while spraying. Yet,
>> it kind of rapid-sputtered after a while, after being
>> smooth-continuous. Still, it was rapid enough that it did not seem to
>> affect the paint job -- which turned out great, and FAST.... the
>> wife, who brush-painted the prime coat a few days before (and is
>> STILL cryin over that job) was hilariously aggressive with this
>> thing, seemed to be going for speed records. If there were no
>> experimentation/marevelling at this new method, I think those gates
>> would have taken about 2-3 minutes, for one person, vs. about an hour
>> for two people.
>
> Sounds like the sputtering problem was a delivery problem. You'll get
> that in a syphone setup when the cup vent starts to clog. Granted -
> syphone is different from pressure delivery, but delivery is delivery. I
> suspect that the latex started to dry in the hose, or some similar
> situation as time went on. Just a guess...
>
>>
>> But I am curious as to what that sputtering was about. Not enough
>> paint pressure? Hmmm, it may have been much higher in the beginning,
>> before I made it too low? Maybe I'll try thinning the paint as well,
>> on the second coat.
>
> Thinning would probably help because it will create a longer time to set
> up for the paint. After all - you have to evaporate that water out before
> the paint can start to set up. Not enough pressure? Don't know myself,
> but it would be worth experimenting and continuing to report back your
> findings. Really - this kind of information is really valuable stuff.
>
>>
>> The HF paint pot itself is OK.... you really have to torque down
>> the clamp screws, I can see this being a problem later. But, the pot
>> is heavy, sturdy, so if the top doesn't warp, I'll hopefully be OK.
>> Nowhere near the quality of the old Sears unit I used in 1980, tho. The
>> pressure regulator is so-so, certainly not precision, but it
>> pressurized the paint.
>> Seems to be a generic design for a bunch of labels. Grizzly has a
>> wild one, with a stirrer and wheels!
>> http://www.grizzly.com/products/2-1-2-gal-Paint-Tank-w-Gauges/H6329 .
>
> Not sure I'd want the wheels. Or a bigger size. When I think about how I
> would use one (and I do have a use in mind...), there is such a thing as
> being too big, and for my intended use, wheels would offer no benefit. I
> live in a log home and am thinking of uses more like your gate - hang it
> from a ladder so that (someone else...) can climb up and get a decent
> amount of spray time out of a trip up that damned ladder. It sure ain't
> gonna be me!
>
>>
>> The job went so quick I really didn't have much time to experiment! Very
>> economical with paint, less than 1/2 gal on almost 100 sq ft of
>> .T1-11, which has to be THE thirstiest surface on the planet, short
>> of cloth!
>
> Pictures man - Pictures!
>
>>
>> What can one use as quick disconnects for the paint line? I doubt
>> whether air quick disconnects would work.... for long! I'm thinking
>> of just putting two 3/8 threaded unions at each end of the paint
>> hose??
>
> I don't think I'd care about quick disconnects for the paint line. It's a
> once a day connection, so I'd be happy enough making a tight mechanical
> connection at that rate.
>
>>
>> Pretty easy clean up, altho coordination is a bit of an issue, what
>> with all the hose, parts, etc. Blew out the hose back into the paint
>> can, cleaned the system with about a gallon of water, in place of
>> paint.
>
> That can't be right. That's just not enough effort...
Get a Wagner..... LOL
And remember, you don't have to pour any paint in the pot -- you can just
plop any can (gal or less) in there, so no real cleaning of the pot, either.
Unless you really want 2.5 gals of paint.
>
>>
>> Anyway, appreciate all the previous advice, really helped the setup
>> and the job. A lot of stuff is going to go a lot faster around here!
>
> Likewise! Feedback like yours is more appreciated around here than you
> may realize. Too many times people pop in, ask questions, get answers, go
> off and try things, and no one here ever benefits from the experiences
> they had. Hell - we often do not even know if anything we offered was
> beneficial to that person or not. Advice is easy to give, but its real
> value lies in the feedback of those who have tried to take it and report
> back on how beneficial it was - or was not. And... every person who tries
> something new, has something new to add to the collective wisdom of a
> group like this.
Yeah, it's very annoying when people do that.
Part of it is that assholes just want answers, don't really care about the
process, so they themselves don't really understand the feedback process,
value.
There is very little appreciation left in Merka for the pure aesthetic of
problem solving -- which is really the problem in education, not all this
technology/gimmick/funding bullshit. Assholes want shit (pref. clickable
shit), and they want it *now*..... And so do I, but I still get a kick
out of elegant solutions. This paint pot was one of them, imo.
--
EA
>
> --
>
> -Mike-
> [email protected]
>
"Wild_Bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>A few comments which I didn't see mentioned previously.. you want to be
>absolutely certain that the paint pot pressure doesn't exceed a safe level.
> There should be a pressure pop-off safety valve incorporated into the
> design of the pot to ensure that the maximum safe pressure can't be
> exceeded, but I dunno about Chinese equipment.
It's got one.
>
> I wouldn't have much confidence in a small air regulator installed on a
> pressure pot. Those small ones with a body diameter of about 2" are
> generally very poor at regulation.
Not precision, dats f'sure.
>
> Latex paints are generally abrasive, with fairly coarse solids in them.
> These solids can erode the paint needle, tip and other internal parts of
> conventional spray guns and most types of spraying equipment.
That explains why the Husky gun got 1 star from a guy who complained he had
to keep re-buying them, due to deteriorating spray quality. He said they
all worked great initially, but after a few months, deteriorated. Sounded
like he did a lot of painting!!.
I wonder if professional guns use hardened nozzles?
Are the nozzles in Husky-type guns (typical siphon gun, I suspect most of
them are generic) replaceable? Across brands, mebbe?
>
> Paint pots were typically used in applications where the painter would be
> applying fairly large volumes of paint, so s/he wouldn't need to be waving
> a quart of paint around with the arm extended, and to reduce the the time
> needed for refilling a cup. The pot could be held with the other hand with
> that arm hanging straight down, minimizing overall fatigue of the gun
> operator.
> The paint delivery hose only needed to be about 6 ft long when used in
> that way.
>
> The 2 quart size pots were often used in autobody shops where a complete
> overall car refinishing job could be completed with 1 refill.
>
> The pot guns were typically left connected to the pot, and cup guns or
> touch-up guns were used for lesser applications. Disassembly would
> encourage wear on the fittings causing leaks, so regularly adapting the
> gun to cup use wasn't very practical.
>
> Pot pressures would generally be low, since the pressure only needed to
> supply a consistent delivery flow of paint to the gun head.
>
> It's also important to keep the pot exterior clean, since dried paint
> buildup can eventually find it's way into the pot, causing job
> interruptions and other problems.
>
> As mentioned previously, it's important to filter all contents of the cup
> or pot, and very worthwhile to use clean strainers on the pickup tubes as
> a sorta failsafe against clogs or other issues.
I gotta get one of these. Mebbe I can scavenge the Wagner filter. :)
>
> Sputtering in a siphon cup gun can be due to a restriction in the cup
> cover vent as suggested, or the needle seal on the trigger side.
> I don't know what causes sputtering in a pressure pot setup other than the
> paint delivery rate is too slow.. but that seems unlikely unless the paint
> is being applied so heavily that the pot can't replenish it quickly
> enough.
> Even a decent quality siphon cup design can keep up with any application
> rate, so I don't know why a pressure pot wouldn't, except for if the ID of
> the supply hose is too small, since you mentioned about a 15 ft hose
> length (liquid being denser than air, a larger diameter may be needed).
I'll have to experiment with this. I"m using crap HF 3/8 id air hose.
Lowering the viscosity of the paint would help, and if I have to make to too
thin, that's an indicator that the hose diam is too small.
>
> Maybe an air leak above the paint level in the pot, which might allow air
> to be injected into the paint flow (Chinese equipment, suspect anything).
Very possibly!!!! Air leaks at the pot lid are very audible, and it is
indeed a bit of a pita to stop them at each clamp. I may have in fact been
a little *too lax* on this. I'll watch for this next time.
--
EA
>
> --
> WB
> .........
>
>
> "Existential Angst" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Awl --
>>
>> Well, not bad for a home-moaner..... :)
>>
>> My buddy picked up the HF pressurized paint pot
>> http://www.harborfreight.com/2-1-2-half-gallon-pressure-paint-tank-66839.html
>>
>> A hose from this pot replaces the siphon cup on the gun. So now I have
>> quite the contraption, and it works!! I now have T1-11 gates (about 100
>> sq ft worth) painted in Glidden's Dark French Chocolate (exterior
>> semi-gloss) -- which is like black with purple mixed in. LOL
>>
>> Here's what was inneresting:
>> I used old otherwise unusable HF black airhose (3/8" id) -- do not buy
>> this stuff for regular compressor air, it springs more leaks than a
>> sieve -- as the paint hose and thought all I would need would be a
>> piddling 5-10 lbs of "pot pressure", but what a surprise when I blew out
>> the hose at the end of the job, with straight compressor air, which had
>> to "work" a little bit!!
>> So it became clear that 40# is more realistic, for about 15 ft worth of
>> hose. I could see this being much higher if working off, say, 24'
>> ladder, but then you can hang this pot, so you don't wind up with
>> unmanageable lengths of paint hose.
>>
>> I didn't thin the paint, had about 30-40# of gun air while spraying.
>> Yet, it kind of rapid-sputtered after a while, after being
>> smooth-continuous. Still, it was rapid enough that it did not seem to
>> affect the paint job -- which turned out great, and FAST.... the wife,
>> who brush-painted the prime coat a few days before (and is STILL cryin
>> over that job) was hilariously aggressive with this thing, seemed to be
>> going for speed records. If there were no experimentation/marevelling
>> at this new method, I think those gates would have taken about 2-3
>> minutes, for one person, vs. about an hour for two people.
>>
>> But I am curious as to what that sputtering was about. Not enough paint
>> pressure? Hmmm, it may have been much higher in the beginning, before I
>> made it too low? Maybe I'll try thinning the paint as well, on the
>> second coat.
>>
>> The HF paint pot itself is OK.... you really have to torque down the
>> clamp screws, I can see this being a problem later. But, the pot is
>> heavy, sturdy, so if the top doesn't warp, I'll hopefully be OK.
>> Nowhere near the quality of the old Sears unit I used in 1980, tho. The
>> pressure regulator is so-so, certainly not precision, but it pressurized
>> the paint.
>> Seems to be a generic design for a bunch of labels. Grizzly has a wild
>> one, with a stirrer and wheels!
>> http://www.grizzly.com/products/2-1-2-gal-Paint-Tank-w-Gauges/H6329 .
>>
>> The job went so quick I really didn't have much time to experiment! Very
>> economical with paint, less than 1/2 gal on almost 100 sq ft of .T1-11,
>> which has to be THE thirstiest surface on the planet, short of cloth!
>>
>> What can one use as quick disconnects for the paint line? I doubt
>> whether air quick disconnects would work.... for long! I'm thinking of
>> just putting two 3/8 threaded unions at each end of the paint hose??
>>
>> Pretty easy clean up, altho coordination is a bit of an issue, what with
>> all the hose, parts, etc. Blew out the hose back into the paint can,
>> cleaned the system with about a gallon of water, in place of paint.
>>
>> Oh, the plumbing for this can be a bit of a handful, if you are not
>> familiar with air and plumbing fittings.
>> The paint hose fittings, on both the gun and the pot, seem to be some
>> kind of hose/compression whatsit, which my hardware guy didn't recognize,
>> but fortunately the thread seems to be a perfect match for 3/8 threads,
>> so an assortment of reducing couplings (to1/4), hose barbs, quick
>> disonnects for the air, etc, and the unit was running.
>> A bit easier said than done, could have been pretty pricey if I didn't
>> have most of that stuff laying around. I used brass so as not to screw
>> up the threads too much, if the fit wasn't exact.
>>
>> My buddy did some research into this, and whole-package units will spare
>> anyone all the diy puttering. Still, a bit hard to find, it seems to me.
>> But, my contraption-esque creation is less dependent on oem stuff, so I
>> can mix/match as needed.
>>
>> Anyway, appreciate all the previous advice, really helped the setup and
>> the job. A lot of stuff is going to go a lot faster around here!
>> --
>> EA
>>
>>
>>
>
Existential Angst wrote:
> Awl --
>
> Well, not bad for a home-moaner..... :)
>
> My buddy picked up the HF pressurized paint pot
> http://www.harborfreight.com/2-1-2-half-gallon-pressure-paint-tank-66839.html
>
> A hose from this pot replaces the siphon cup on the gun. So now I
> have quite the contraption, and it works!! I now have T1-11 gates
> (about 100 sq ft worth) painted in Glidden's Dark French Chocolate
> (exterior semi-gloss) -- which is like black with purple mixed in. LOL
How about posting some picture of your setup and your gates over in the
binaries group, or on a web site and post the url here? Would like to see
what you ended up with.
>
> Here's what was inneresting:
> I used old otherwise unusable HF black airhose (3/8" id) -- do not
> buy this stuff for regular compressor air, it springs more leaks than
> a sieve -- as the paint hose and thought all I would need would be a
> piddling 5-10 lbs of "pot pressure", but what a surprise when I blew
> out the hose at the end of the job, with straight compressor air,
> which had to "work" a little bit!! So it became clear that 40# is
> more realistic, for about 15 ft worth of hose. I could see this
> being much higher if working off, say, 24' ladder, but then you can
> hang this pot, so you don't wind up with unmanageable lengths of
> paint hose.
I've never used one of these paint pots, but this experience does not
surprise me. Most folks don't realize how much pressure drop occurs in just
a length of hose, let alone factoring in trying to move a fairly viscous
material. That said - it's great that you posted this level of detailed
observation. Very helpful for those of us who may try this very thing
ourselves in the future.
> I didn't thin the paint, had about 30-40# of gun air while spraying. Yet,
> it kind of rapid-sputtered after a while, after being
> smooth-continuous. Still, it was rapid enough that it did not seem to
> affect the paint job -- which turned out great, and FAST.... the
> wife, who brush-painted the prime coat a few days before (and is
> STILL cryin over that job) was hilariously aggressive with this
> thing, seemed to be going for speed records. If there were no
> experimentation/marevelling at this new method, I think those gates
> would have taken about 2-3 minutes, for one person, vs. about an hour
> for two people.
Sounds like the sputtering problem was a delivery problem. You'll get that
in a syphone setup when the cup vent starts to clog. Granted - syphone is
different from pressure delivery, but delivery is delivery. I suspect that
the latex started to dry in the hose, or some similar situation as time went
on. Just a guess...
>
> But I am curious as to what that sputtering was about. Not enough
> paint pressure? Hmmm, it may have been much higher in the beginning,
> before I made it too low? Maybe I'll try thinning the paint as well,
> on the second coat.
Thinning would probably help because it will create a longer time to set up
for the paint. After all - you have to evaporate that water out before the
paint can start to set up. Not enough pressure? Don't know myself, but it
would be worth experimenting and continuing to report back your findings.
Really - this kind of information is really valuable stuff.
>
> The HF paint pot itself is OK.... you really have to torque down
> the clamp screws, I can see this being a problem later. But, the pot
> is heavy, sturdy, so if the top doesn't warp, I'll hopefully be OK.
> Nowhere near the quality of the old Sears unit I used in 1980, tho. The
> pressure regulator is so-so, certainly not precision, but it
> pressurized the paint.
> Seems to be a generic design for a bunch of labels. Grizzly has a
> wild one, with a stirrer and wheels!
> http://www.grizzly.com/products/2-1-2-gal-Paint-Tank-w-Gauges/H6329 .
Not sure I'd want the wheels. Or a bigger size. When I think about how I
would use one (and I do have a use in mind...), there is such a thing as
being too big, and for my intended use, wheels would offer no benefit. I
live in a log home and am thinking of uses more like your gate - hang it
from a ladder so that (someone else...) can climb up and get a decent amount
of spray time out of a trip up that damned ladder. It sure ain't gonna be
me!
>
> The job went so quick I really didn't have much time to experiment! Very
> economical with paint, less than 1/2 gal on almost 100 sq ft of
> .T1-11, which has to be THE thirstiest surface on the planet, short
> of cloth!
Pictures man - Pictures!
>
> What can one use as quick disconnects for the paint line? I doubt
> whether air quick disconnects would work.... for long! I'm thinking
> of just putting two 3/8 threaded unions at each end of the paint
> hose??
I don't think I'd care about quick disconnects for the paint line. It's a
once a day connection, so I'd be happy enough making a tight mechanical
connection at that rate.
>
> Pretty easy clean up, altho coordination is a bit of an issue, what
> with all the hose, parts, etc. Blew out the hose back into the paint
> can, cleaned the system with about a gallon of water, in place of
> paint.
That can't be right. That's just not enough effort...
>
> Anyway, appreciate all the previous advice, really helped the setup
> and the job. A lot of stuff is going to go a lot faster around here!
Likewise! Feedback like yours is more appreciated around here than you may
realize. Too many times people pop in, ask questions, get answers, go off
and try things, and no one here ever benefits from the experiences they had.
Hell - we often do not even know if anything we offered was beneficial to
that person or not. Advice is easy to give, but its real value lies in the
feedback of those who have tried to take it and report back on how
beneficial it was - or was not. And... every person who tries something
new, has something new to add to the collective wisdom of a group like this.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Dave Balderstone wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, Existential Angst
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> But I am curious as to what that sputtering was about. Not enough
>> paint pressure? Hmmm, it may have been much higher in the
>> beginning, before I made it too low? Maybe I'll try thinning the
>> paint as well, on the second coat.
>
> I spray stain and topcoats, not paint, but when I get sputtering I
> refilter what I'm spraying. My guess is there may have been small
> "chunks" that clogged the nozzle tip slightly. Thinning may help, but
> filtering is best. Your paint supplier should have the appropriate
> size screen and empty paint cans to pour into.
If you used a strainer when you first filled your gun (you always should -
no exceptions...), then you should not need to re-strain it during use. If
you are doing so, you are probably treating a different problem that you
just aren't realizing. Sputtering is generally a sign of an impeded
delivery of the material, which is generally more related to the gun than
the material itself - unless you excede the pot life of the material. If
the later is the case, you should be throwing away the material.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Dave Balderstone wrote:
>
> I use a turbine HVLP system (Apollo) but sometimes the urethane sits
> in the pot overnight. Sputtering on this system is extremely rare,
> though.
Ahhhh - sorry. I withdraw any comments relative to that kind of paint
system, as I know absolutely nothing about them Got caught speaking from my
own point of reference and did not consider your turbine. I am quite
surprised you can let your urethane sit in your gun that long though. I
would not have expected that to work well.
>
> I'm switching almost entirely to the 3M PPS Paint Preparation System
> <http://www.woodessence.com/3M-Paint-Preparation-System-C47.aspx>,
> rather than using the pot that comes with the gun. Cleanup is a
> breeze, and it's really easy to switch between stains and topcoats
> for the small jobs (which is most of what I do).
>
I've toyed with the idea of going to a cup system like this for my gravity
gun. It would certainly reduce cleaning time between base coat and clear
coat, as well as final cleaning time. Just never pulled the trigger on the
idea. I only have one good gravity gun, so I have to do a rather thorough
cleaning between base and clear which uses more lacquer thinner and takes
more time. I really need to get a second gravity gun so that I can use one
for base and one for clear, but even at that, this type of system still
makes a lot of sense. But... I say that about a lot of good ideas, and
then... well, you know...
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
A few comments which I didn't see mentioned previously.. you want to be
absolutely certain that the paint pot pressure doesn't exceed a safe level.
There should be a pressure pop-off safety valve incorporated into the design
of the pot to ensure that the maximum safe pressure can't be exceeded, but I
dunno about Chinese equipment.
I wouldn't have much confidence in a small air regulator installed on a
pressure pot. Those small ones with a body diameter of about 2" are
generally very poor at regulation.
Latex paints are generally abrasive, with fairly coarse solids in them.
These solids can erode the paint needle, tip and other internal parts of
conventional spray guns and most types of spraying equipment.
Paint pots were typically used in applications where the painter would be
applying fairly large volumes of paint, so s/he wouldn't need to be waving a
quart of paint around with the arm extended, and to reduce the the time
needed for refilling a cup. The pot could be held with the other hand with
that arm hanging straight down, minimizing overall fatigue of the gun
operator.
The paint delivery hose only needed to be about 6 ft long when used in that
way.
The 2 quart size pots were often used in autobody shops where a complete
overall car refinishing job could be completed with 1 refill.
The pot guns were typically left connected to the pot, and cup guns or
touch-up guns were used for lesser applications. Disassembly would encourage
wear on the fittings causing leaks, so regularly adapting the gun to cup use
wasn't very practical.
Pot pressures would generally be low, since the pressure only needed to
supply a consistent delivery flow of paint to the gun head.
It's also important to keep the pot exterior clean, since dried paint
buildup can eventually find it's way into the pot, causing job interruptions
and other problems.
As mentioned previously, it's important to filter all contents of the cup or
pot, and very worthwhile to use clean strainers on the pickup tubes as a
sorta failsafe against clogs or other issues.
Sputtering in a siphon cup gun can be due to a restriction in the cup cover
vent as suggested, or the needle seal on the trigger side.
I don't know what causes sputtering in a pressure pot setup other than the
paint delivery rate is too slow.. but that seems unlikely unless the paint
is being applied so heavily that the pot can't replenish it quickly enough.
Even a decent quality siphon cup design can keep up with any application
rate, so I don't know why a pressure pot wouldn't, except for if the ID of
the supply hose is too small, since you mentioned about a 15 ft hose length
(liquid being denser than air, a larger diameter may be needed).
Maybe an air leak above the paint level in the pot, which might allow air to
be injected into the paint flow (Chinese equipment, suspect anything).
--
WB
.........
"Existential Angst" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Awl --
>
> Well, not bad for a home-moaner..... :)
>
> My buddy picked up the HF pressurized paint pot
> http://www.harborfreight.com/2-1-2-half-gallon-pressure-paint-tank-66839.html
>
> A hose from this pot replaces the siphon cup on the gun. So now I have
> quite the contraption, and it works!! I now have T1-11 gates (about 100
> sq ft worth) painted in Glidden's Dark French Chocolate (exterior
> semi-gloss) -- which is like black with purple mixed in. LOL
>
> Here's what was inneresting:
> I used old otherwise unusable HF black airhose (3/8" id) -- do not buy
> this stuff for regular compressor air, it springs more leaks than a
> sieve -- as the paint hose and thought all I would need would be a
> piddling 5-10 lbs of "pot pressure", but what a surprise when I blew out
> the hose at the end of the job, with straight compressor air, which had to
> "work" a little bit!!
> So it became clear that 40# is more realistic, for about 15 ft worth of
> hose. I could see this being much higher if working off, say, 24' ladder,
> but then you can hang this pot, so you don't wind up with unmanageable
> lengths of paint hose.
>
> I didn't thin the paint, had about 30-40# of gun air while spraying. Yet,
> it kind of rapid-sputtered after a while, after being smooth-continuous.
> Still, it was rapid enough that it did not seem to affect the paint job --
> which turned out great, and FAST.... the wife, who brush-painted the
> prime coat a few days before (and is STILL cryin over that job) was
> hilariously aggressive with this thing, seemed to be going for speed
> records. If there were no experimentation/marevelling at this new
> method, I think those gates would have taken about 2-3 minutes, for one
> person, vs. about an hour for two people.
>
> But I am curious as to what that sputtering was about. Not enough paint
> pressure? Hmmm, it may have been much higher in the beginning, before I
> made it too low? Maybe I'll try thinning the paint as well, on the second
> coat.
>
> The HF paint pot itself is OK.... you really have to torque down the
> clamp screws, I can see this being a problem later. But, the pot is
> heavy, sturdy, so if the top doesn't warp, I'll hopefully be OK.
> Nowhere near the quality of the old Sears unit I used in 1980, tho. The
> pressure regulator is so-so, certainly not precision, but it pressurized
> the paint.
> Seems to be a generic design for a bunch of labels. Grizzly has a wild
> one, with a stirrer and wheels!
> http://www.grizzly.com/products/2-1-2-gal-Paint-Tank-w-Gauges/H6329 .
>
> The job went so quick I really didn't have much time to experiment! Very
> economical with paint, less than 1/2 gal on almost 100 sq ft of .T1-11,
> which has to be THE thirstiest surface on the planet, short of cloth!
>
> What can one use as quick disconnects for the paint line? I doubt whether
> air quick disconnects would work.... for long! I'm thinking of just
> putting two 3/8 threaded unions at each end of the paint hose??
>
> Pretty easy clean up, altho coordination is a bit of an issue, what with
> all the hose, parts, etc. Blew out the hose back into the paint can,
> cleaned the system with about a gallon of water, in place of paint.
>
> Oh, the plumbing for this can be a bit of a handful, if you are not
> familiar with air and plumbing fittings.
> The paint hose fittings, on both the gun and the pot, seem to be some kind
> of hose/compression whatsit, which my hardware guy didn't recognize, but
> fortunately the thread seems to be a perfect match for 3/8 threads, so an
> assortment of reducing couplings (to1/4), hose barbs, quick disonnects for
> the air, etc, and the unit was running.
> A bit easier said than done, could have been pretty pricey if I didn't
> have most of that stuff laying around. I used brass so as not to screw up
> the threads too much, if the fit wasn't exact.
>
> My buddy did some research into this, and whole-package units will spare
> anyone all the diy puttering. Still, a bit hard to find, it seems to me.
> But, my contraption-esque creation is less dependent on oem stuff, so I
> can mix/match as needed.
>
> Anyway, appreciate all the previous advice, really helped the setup and
> the job. A lot of stuff is going to go a lot faster around here!
> --
> EA
>
>
>
I didn't see your reply thru my APN news feed.
All conventional paint guns I've seen utilize replaceable fluid
tips/nozzles, generally following a model or series of a particular gun
model.
Some gun producers began fabricating the fluid head (a separate part from
the handle assy on better quality guns) and tips from stainless steel when
latex paints started gaining popularity.
The gun needle and fluid tips need to match in size, and some gun producers
market numerous sizes to accomodate different re/finishing products.
Optional air caps are available with more/fewer or differently sized
atomizing ports, also for various products.
The air caps generally need to match the fluid tips for a particular
model/series.
I suppose that hardened needles and fluid tips are available for production
line spraying equipment, but don't know of any first hand.
Strainers that slip-fit onto paint equipment pickup tubes are readily
available from paint and autobody supply sources, and are commonly used
routinely as an added prevention to avoid problems with finishes.
Examining the exploded view/parts diagram of a paint gun will reveal where
the seals belong if it should need to be disassembled for thorough cleaning
etc.
The parts list may also include optional parts mentioned above.
Routine inspection of the tip of the needle can help determine if the needle
and fluid tip are becoming unuseable.
In lower quality gun designs, the needle drags as it enters/withdraws from
the fluid tip, increasing the rate of wear.
--
WB
.........
>Existential Angst wrote:
>Are the nozzles in Husky-type guns (typical siphon gun, I suspect most of
>them are generic) replaceable? Across brands, mebbe?