Christians are taught to turn the other cheek when one is slapped in
the face. We are taught that we will be rewarded in heaven if we are
sorry for our sins. God will always love us unconditionally.
Jews are told that when they die that is the end, period!
Muslims are taught that they need to kill Christians and Jews
(infidels) to be rewarded in paradise with 72 sexy virgins.
Christianity wins...hands down!
I heard it was twelve. What caused the increase to 72?
On 6 Aug 2003 17:07:17 -0700, [email protected] (Al Browne) wrote:
>Christians are taught to turn the other cheek when one is slapped in
>the face. We are taught that we will be rewarded in heaven if we are
>sorry for our sins. God will always love us unconditionally.
>
>Jews are told that when they die that is the end, period!
>
>Muslims are taught that they need to kill Christians and Jews
>(infidels) to be rewarded in paradise with 72 sexy virgins.
>
>Christianity wins...hands down!
--
Joel M. Eichen, D.D.S.
Philadelphia PA
STANDARD DISCLAIMER applies:
no one has seen the tooth or
teeth in question so take
this advice within its proper
context ~ this is the internet!
"Are told" is always subject to the teller and the tellee.
As for central religious dogma, yup Cindy is correct ...... although
Maimonides believed there was no afterlife.
The operative word of course is "believe." After all, who knows ......
Ooooops! This is certain to speark another 250 posts!
Joel
On Thu, 07 Aug 2003 00:24:54 GMT, "cindys" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"Al Browne" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>
>>
>> Jews are told that when they die that is the end, period!
>
>This is a lie, and you are a troll.
>Best regards,
>---Cindy S.
>
>
>
--
Joel M. Eichen, D.D.S.
Philadelphia PA
STANDARD DISCLAIMER applies:
no one has seen the tooth or
teeth in question so take
this advice within its proper
context ~ this is the internet!
There are going to be lots of
disappointed terrorists in heaven I just know!
On Thu, 07 Aug 2003 21:15:27 GMT, "Ernie Jurick" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"Joel M. Eichen D.D.S." <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>
>> What? You only get 72 raisins for being a terorrism guy?
>
>Yes on the raisins, although the specific number is uncertain. Reading
>"virgins" for "raisins" is a Qu'ranic whoops!, similar to the reading of
>virgin for "young woman" in the Bible.
>-- Ernie
>
--
Joel M. Eichen, D.D.S.
Philadelphia PA
STANDARD DISCLAIMER applies:
no one has seen the tooth or
teeth in question so take
this advice within its proper
context ~ this is the internet!
"William Graham" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:MaXYa.100705$uu5.14493@sccrnsc04...
> > An interesting apocraphal story about Newton:
> > An atheist scientist, a friend of Sir Isaac Newton, came to visit the
> > great physicist after he had just finished making his solar system
> > machine (ie one of the machines like the one in the science museum
> > where you crank the handle and the planets and moons move round).
> > The man saw the machine and said 'how wonderful' and went over to it
> > and started cranking the handle and the planets went round. As he was
> > doing this he asked 'who made this?'. Sir Isaac stopped writing and
> > said 'nobody did'. Then he carried on writing. The man said 'You
> > didn't hear me. Who made the machine?' . Newton replied 'I told you.
> > Nobody did.' He stopped cranking and turned to Isaac 'Now listen
> > Isaac, this marvellous machine must have been made by somebody - don't
> > keep saying that nobody made it.'
> > At which point Isaac Newton stopped writing and got up. He looked at
> > him and said 'Now isn't it amazing. I tell you that nobody made a
> > simple toy like that and you don't believe me. Yet you gaze out into
> > the solar system - the intricate marvelous machine that is around you
> > - and you dare say to me that noone made THAT?'
A touching story, but only a story, invented by some Christian apologist and
dutifully circulated on creationist Web sites.
-- Ernie
-- Ernie
TROLL --- Whoever wrote this, it was not Alan Browne.
Whoever wrote this is from the IP 67.31.XX.XX where all the crap has
been comiong from recently.
Al Browne wrote:
> Christians are taught to turn the other cheek when one is slapped in
> the face. We are taught that we will be rewarded in heaven if we are
> sorry for our sins. God will always love us unconditionally.
>
> Jews are told that when they die that is the end, period!
>
> Muslims are taught that they need to kill Christians and Jews
> (infidels) to be rewarded in paradise with 72 sexy virgins.
>
> Christianity wins...hands down!
STOP X-posting to the photo groups please.
Gene wrote:
> He didn't say God (my language's word for a supreme being..substitute your
> own title) was a sham, but rather religion. Since time began we have
> attributed things which we could not explain as God's work. As science has
> explained many of those things we find that some support biblical writings
> and some don't. If you believe in evolution, you still get to a point of not
> being able to explain what created that first one celled animal.
>
> Peoples biggest fear is of dying. All religions offer at least one solution
> but most of us are brought up to believe in heaven and hell as the options.
> The thought of eternal damnation tends to keep us in line with the moral
> teachings of those who have risen as religious leaders. The idea of an
> after life predates ALL modern religions.
>
> Religion is good. It has brought us bingo and kept a lot of old school buses
> out of the land fill. What has happened in the name of religion over the
> centuries is not always good, however.
>
> To the real point: Noah was a boat builder, Jesus was a carpenter, did
> Muhammad ever pick up a hammer?
>
> Gene
>
>
> "Johan Lexington" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>You should be ashamed of yourself! God is watching!
>>
>>
>>>LOL!!!!!! you have got to be kidding. Religion is the single biggest
>>
> sham
>
>>>perpetrated on mankind the world has ever seen.
>>
>
>
Please, leave me out of it. Don't do me any favors (with christians doing favors to "save" jews through the centuries,
who needs enemies). And anyway, what's it to you if I'm not "saved"? Your life, such as it is, remains exactly the same
whether I'm "saved" or not. I won't bother you, I promise. I don't mind if you believe that christianity is the only true
religion. That's your business. I really don't care. But please, please, please don't do me any favors by trying to
"save" me and just keep me out of your equation.
David A.
P.S. Have you ever heard of or read about Nicolaus of Cusa?
Johan Lexington wrote:
> Like I said, Christianity is the only true religion. Jews, Muslims and
> pagans are sinners and need to be saved.
>
> [email protected] (Kix Adams) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> > bob young <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> >
> > > All religions are the result of early man's superstition.
> > >
> > > Hard to accept, but it has to be accepted if we are to prevent millions dying in the very near future in the name
> > > of religion - just like in the past only this time with more davastation.
> >
> > Actually what your proposing is very easy to accept. Evidence of that
> > is that so many people have accepted it, just as you have.
> >
> > What's difficult to accept is that all of the beliefs you mentioned
> > and a lot of others were devised for the sole purpose of drawing
> > people away from the TRUTH, which has been here since the beginning of
> > mankind.
> >
> > Regarding the millions more dying that you mentioned. That will sadly
> > come about and would have much more quickly had we not had
> > intervention from God. That's why it is so important for us to face
> > the reality of mankind and prepare ourselves for what comes afterward.
"Al Browne" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Christians are taught to turn the other cheek when one is slapped in
> the face. We are taught that we will be rewarded in heaven if we are
> sorry for our sins. God will always love us unconditionally.
>
> Jews are told that when they die that is the end, period!
Oh, we are?
>
> Muslims are taught that they need to kill Christians and Jews
> (infidels) to be rewarded in paradise with 72 sexy virgins.
>
> Christianity wins...hands down!
Only if you're ignorant.
Susan
"Tilly" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Al Browne wrote:
> > Jews are told that when they die that is the end, period!
>
>
> Are you a troll ,a liar or simply ignorant?
"Al Browne" is all of these, as he is pretending to be "Alan Browne"
Susan
"FA" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> You're obviously an ignorant person. I'm a practicing Muslim and I can
> assure you the whole virgin thing has been blown out of proportion to
demean
> us. If you're happy with your religion, good for you, just don't go
around
> demeaning others and villifying others when all evil seems to originate in
> your own backyard.
>
> > Christians are taught to turn the other cheek when one is slapped in
> > the face. We are taught that we will be rewarded in heaven if we are
> > sorry for our sins. God will always love us unconditionally.
>
> It wasn't Muslims who invaded Iraq with all soldiers carrying Bibles with
> the words "operation iraqi freedom" written on it.
Nor was it America, because not all soldiers in America even carry *any*
Bible, much less the ones you describe.
It was a war lead by a
> right wing born-again Christian who's view of the world is based on the
> Bible and who had no problem with missionaries pouring into Iraq and
> Afghanistan right after the bombs had fallen. Talk about spreading beliefs
> with the might of missiles, bombs and other weapons of mass destruction.
I won't argue that Bush doesn't want everyone to follow his religion; he
does.
But the Iraq invasion was carried out for more base reasons, as well as the
fact that Saddam *was* in violation of the treaty terms for over 12 years.
Susan
"Mike Craney" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Not a lot of elected officials on the US side categorizing all Muslims
> as "extremists." I can think of two in Congress, neither particularly
> well known or credible. Mr. Bush, OTOH, has gone out of his way (to the
> point of pissing off the religious conservatives ) to distingush between
> Islam-religion-of-peace and hijackers-of-Islam.
After 9/11, a great deal of care was taken in this area. I seem to recall a
public address from the President about it.
How many other countries do stuff like this??
Susan
>
> So, what are you talking about when you say "elected officials?"
> >
> >
> Mike
>
"Blake McCully" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Umm..... I'd just like to know what is the best finish for red oak? Spray
> poly, varnish, lacquer, or shellac.
Doesn't it depend on what you're using the oak *for*?
Ooops, I thought that this was
> rec.woodworking not rec.evangelist.religion.
I apologize for jumping on the bandwagon, & the only amelioration must be
that I didn't start this thread, & I have *usually* remembered to take you
guys out!
Also, I think my post was more political than religious at all, but that's
STILL off-topic for you guys!
(scj left in, in case you need me to see the reply).
Susan
"SwampBug" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Perhaps, Ernie, but the logic is still valid. . .<s>
No, it isn't. The power of the story rests on the misuse of Isaac Newton's
name and reputation to convey an idea he never would have supported. If you
change the name to Joe Smith it's a pretty story but it carries no weight.
-- Ernie
Like I said, Christianity is the only true religion. Jews, Muslims and
pagans are sinners and need to be saved.
[email protected] (Kix Adams) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> bob young <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>
> > All religions are the result of early man's superstition.
> >
> > Hard to accept, but it has to be accepted if we are to prevent millions dying in the very near future in the name
> > of religion - just like in the past only this time with more davastation.
>
> Actually what your proposing is very easy to accept. Evidence of that
> is that so many people have accepted it, just as you have.
>
> What's difficult to accept is that all of the beliefs you mentioned
> and a lot of others were devised for the sole purpose of drawing
> people away from the TRUTH, which has been here since the beginning of
> mankind.
>
> Regarding the millions more dying that you mentioned. That will sadly
> come about and would have much more quickly had we not had
> intervention from God. That's why it is so important for us to face
> the reality of mankind and prepare ourselves for what comes afterward.
What an idiot.
"Johan Lexington" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Like I said, Christianity is the only true religion. Jews, Muslims and
> pagans are sinners and need to be saved.
>
"Al Browne" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Christians are taught to turn the other cheek when one is slapped in
> the face. We are taught that we will be rewarded in heaven if we are
> sorry for our sins. God will always love us unconditionally.
>
> Jews are told that when they die that is the end, period!
>
> Muslims are taught that they need to kill Christians and Jews
> (infidels) to be rewarded in paradise with 72 sexy virgins.
>
Thank God I'm an athiest!
-- Ernie
HEY KIX ADAMS GET A LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
IS THIS A WOODWORKING NEWS GROUP??
WHY DON'T YOU GUYS CREATE YOUR OWN NEWS GROUP, THEN YOU ALL CAN RUN OFF AT
THE MOUTH ALL YOU WANT??
"bob young" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> Kix Adams wrote:
>
> > "Mike" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<c2%[email protected]>...
> >
> > > > LOL!!!!!! you have got to be kidding. Religion is the single
biggest sham
> > > > perpetrated on mankind the world has ever seen.
> >
> > On the contrary, the sham that you fell for is by far the biggest.
>
> There are thousands of religions, all with a common thread running through
them. temples, books or parchments
> leading the flock, priests, clothing for the priests to show seniority,
atifacts, images of the god or his so
> called likeness, Prayers and chantys, gongs, bells, whilstles...the list
is endless.
>
> All religions are the result of early man's superstition.
>
> Hard to accept, but it has to be accepted if we are to prevent millions
dying in the very near future in the name
> of religion - just like in the past only this time with more davastation.
>
>
TonyaK911 <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "William Graham" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<MaXYa.100705$uu5.14493@sccrnsc04>...
> > TonyaK911 <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > "William Graham" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:<inHYa.93385$uu5.13701@sccrnsc04>...
> > >
> > > > > Sir, as someone whose specialty has been logic, let me state that,
> > > > > logically speaking, there is NO FORMAL LOGICAL PROOF of
non-existence
> > > > > of G-d. Better philosophers than yourself tried and failed to find
> > > > > such proof.
> > > >
> > > > Well try this: If you were to tell me that you have a new ford in
your
> > > > garage, I would have no reason to doubt it. Ford sells millions of
> > vehicles
> > > > every year, at a very reasonable price, and there is no reason for
you
> > to
> > > > lie, so I would believe it hands down. But if you were to tell me
that
> > you
> > > > keep a pet elephant in your garage, I would not believe it. I would
have
> > no
> > > > absolute proof that you were lying, but there are probably exactly
zero
> > > > elephants in garages here in the US, and elephants require a lot
more
> > space
> > > > than that, and so the probability that you were being truthful would
be
> > so
> > > > small that no reasonable person would believe you for a New York
minute.
> > > > Now, lets get to the Christian myth. This is such a convoluted,
> > ridiculous
> > > > bunch of impossible claptrap, that no reasonable person could
possible
> > > > believe it. What with pillars of salt, parting ocean waters and the
rest
> > of
> > > > the BS, the probability of it being true is so remote, that it would
> > take an
> > > > absolute babbling imbecile to entertain it for a second. So, until
you
> > come
> > > > up with a story that is a little better than this, you are just
going to
> > > > have to accept the fact that the only way you can get anyone to
believe
> > it
> > > > is to take them at a very young age, and destroy any semblance of
logic
> > in
> > > > them by continuous brainwashing at regular intervals throughout
their
> > lives,
> > > > and even then, the chances are pretty good they will wise up on or
about
> > the
> > > > time they rfind out that there is no Santa Clause, and all your
efforts
> > will
> > > > be wasted anyway. Absolute proof? - No, no one can proove that
something
> > > > ISN'T there. But from a practicle matter, it is obvious to any
thinking
> > > > person that if you can't see it, smell it, touch it, hear it, or
taste
> > it,
> > > > and no machine created by science can detect it either, then it very
> > likely
> > > > is not there......That's good enough for me.
> > >
> > > The great physicist, Sir Isaac Newton, wrote: "This most beautiful
> > > system of the sun, planets and comets, could only proceed from the
> > > counsel and dominion of an intelligent Being" - "Principia" 2nd
> > > Edition
> > >
> > > If you cannot see the Universe, touch it, smell it, hear it or taste
> > > it then its very likely you're not there...
> > >
> > > An interesting apocraphal story about Newton:
> > > An atheist scientist, a friend of Sir Isaac Newton, came to visit the
> > > great physicist after he had just finished making his solar system
> > > machine (ie one of the machines like the one in the science museum
> > > where you crank the handle and the planets and moons move round).
> > > The man saw the machine and said 'how wonderful' and went over to it
> > > and started cranking the handle and the planets went round. As he was
> > > doing this he asked 'who made this?'. Sir Isaac stopped writing and
> > > said 'nobody did'. Then he carried on writing. The man said 'You
> > > didn't hear me. Who made the machine?' . Newton replied 'I told you.
> > > Nobody did.' He stopped cranking and turned to Isaac 'Now listen
> > > Isaac, this marvellous machine must have been made by somebody - don't
> > > keep saying that nobody made it.'
> > > At which point Isaac Newton stopped writing and got up. He looked at
> > > him and said 'Now isn't it amazing. I tell you that nobody made a
> > > simple toy like that and you don't believe me. Yet you gaze out into
> > > the solar system - the intricate marvelous machine that is around you
> > > - and you dare say to me that noone made THAT?'
> > >
> > > Newton's science was closely related to his theology. In the General
> > > Scholium of his Principia, he states that its purpose was to establish
> > > the existence of God (of course, as I've pointed out in my post above,
> > > neither positive nor negative formal logical proof cannot be found -
> > > thet's why are talking about BELIEF system.) His work was to combat
> > > atheism, challenge the purely mechanical explanation of the world, and
> > > point to the need (called "imperative" by later philosophers) for a
> > > wise and benevolent deity and an intelligent Creator. He believed that
> > > the Universe was governed by general, natural laws set up by God, but
> > > preserved by special providence.
> > >
> > > Of course, compared to your intellect, Newton's was just a result of
> > > brainwashing...
> > >
> > > Here's another story is about two pfysicist-geniuses.
> > > Pauli asks Heisenberg the big one ..............
> > > Wolfgang Pauli: "Do you believe in a personal god?"
> > > Heisenberg: "May I rephrase your question?
> > > "I myself should prefer the following formulation: Can you, or anyone
> > > else, reach the central order of things or events, whose existence
> > > seems beyond doubt, as directly as you can reach the soul of another
> > > human being? I am using the term "soul" quite deliberately so as not
> > > to be misunderstood. If you put your question like that, I would say
> > > yes."
> > > Werner Heisenberg (Physics and Beyond)
> > > New York: Harper & Row, 1971 - Page 215
> > >
> > > TK9
> >
> > All of the above consists in the argument that one should believe in
what
> > some, (or several) people of authority believe. I can find idiot savants
who
> > are capable of performing marvelous things, but are still idiots in
> > everything else. I can also find very respected scientists, even Nobel
prize
> > winners, who are atheists. But I choose to think for myself. Since there
are
> > those who do not believe whom I respect, how can I do anything else? The
> > same is true of my politics. There are brilliant men and women who are
on
> > opposite sides of the political spectrum. So, using a reliance on
authority
> > to decide is not a wise philosophy. I choose to make my own decisions
based
> > on my knowledge and experience. - I believe that everyone should do
this. As
> > I've said before, it isn't just the existence of a supreme intellect
that's
> > at stake here. If that's all there was, then it would not be hard for me
to
> > say, "Well, its possible". But the Christians, (and others) want me to
> > believe is some complicated convoluted tale composed of nursery rhymes,
> > dragons, physical impossibilities, and such other clap-trap that I can
only
> > laugh at. Did anyone ever ask Newton how Moses parted the waters? Or
changed
> > water into wine? or turned some guys wife into a pillar of salt? - And
if
> > they did, what did Newton say? I think that he would have said that he
> > didn't really believe in all that. And so what's it come down to? If the
> > great God, creator of the universe, just created it and then left, never
to
> > be seen again, then what's he good for, anyway? - It doesn't really
matter
> > weather you believe in him or not. Only if he sticks around and listens
to
> > your prayers and intervenes in your life in some way is he worth a damn.
> > God, has never done anything for me. I have no evidence that he exists
at
> > all. Certainly not in my lifetime. So, what does it really matter
weather I
> > believe in him or not? The same floods, tidal waves, volcanic eruptions,
> > lightening strikes, and plagues are killing as many innocent people as
> > guilty today as they ever have. No god has intervened to save or
otherwise
> > help one living soul over what random probability would dictate
anyway. -
> > So, if he does nothing for us, then what good is he? - And why would I
even
> > acknowledge his existence, much less worship him. Anyone deserving of my
> > worship has to have more use than that. - I didn't ask him to be
born.....He
> > did me no favors in that reguard. - I would have been just as well off
had I
> > never existed. There are an infinite number of people who never
> > existed.....:^) Why would I want to worship somebody for taking me out
of
> > that crowd? I've got a good question for you. - Tell me, why do you
believe
> > in a god anyway? - What has it ever done for you other than use up some
of
> > your valuable time on Sunday morning? Does he help save you from the
fear of
> > death? - Why would you be afraid of being in the same state you were in
for
> > billions of years before you were born? It didn't hurt you then, so why
> > would you fear it in the future? I never knew any pain before I was
born. -
> > I will know none after I am dead. But I have known a lot of it here on
this
> > earth. And seen much, much more of it in the other creatures that I
share
> > this existence with. Have you ever asked yourself why god lets the deer
and
> > other creatures starve to death in the Wintertime? - What purpose do you
> > suppose he has for that? Just a simple question like that would be what
I
> > would have put to your Isaac Newton.......
>
> You presume a lot more than you really know.
> And it shows.
> See, my friend, I'm a Jew, and we believe in knowledge and deep study
> of any matter before one opens his mouth.
> But you may stay as you are.
> Maybe that is your salvation - Christians believe their G-d loves
> people with little knowledge - some day you might inherit the Earth,
> according to their believes.
> Ta-ta...
>
> TK9
Well, I would love to hear all of this great knowledge that you imply that
you have, and that I do not.....But, I suspect that it is just endless
quoting of scriptures that I would be letting myself in for.....So, I will
accept your, "ta-ta..."
> Negotiate! Come to the table like human beings. Resist terrorists in
> your own neighborhoods. If it happened once in America, every neighbor
> would turn in the guilty party, regardless of their creed, religion,
> or race!
Negotiate!! Why didn't Bush negotiate with Saddam or with Al-Qaeda? People
don't negnotiate with those they think are evil-this goes for both sides.
> Pizza Hut in Jerusalem is not a military target now is it?
No it's not, and its wrong. But perhaps this civillians should consider the
fact that they are on occupied land. The nation of Israel was created by
illegal means by usurping what was the rightful propery of Palestinians.
In news:[email protected],
Al Browne <[email protected]> typed:
> Christians are taught to turn the other cheek when one is slapped in
> the face. We are taught that we will be rewarded in heaven if we are
> sorry for our sins. God will always love us unconditionally.
>
> Jews are told that when they die that is the end, period!
>
> Muslims are taught that they need to kill Christians and Jews
> (infidels) to be rewarded in paradise with 72 sexy virgins.
>
> Christianity wins...hands down!
LMAO.... Occultmail.com????? Looks like you missed one.
> We agree, but first, stop letting and encouraging young people to
> destroy themselves ......... it ain't worth it!
Agreed, but lets also address the root causes. Its hard to argue with
someone who's been brainwashed when they have hundreds of reasons not to
listen to you. There is a problem of extremism within Islam, but calling us
all extremists and treating us all the same way might turn into a
self-fulfilling prophecy. It is time for extremists on both sides to be
reigned in. The only difference is, on one side they're elected and on the
other side they're not.
>Okay here's your chance to explain it. And why pray tell was it made
>known about the 72 virgins? Is it cut out of whole cloth? Is it
>fabricated?
No, its idea itself is not fabricated but has been distorted and exploited
by those who hate Islam. If you really want to educate yourself on the
issue, I recommend the following link. It might be a bit of a read but it
will clearly address the issue.
What is Jihad?
Approximately fourteen hundred years ago, Prophet Muhammad, the last in the
line of the prophets of Islam, received revelation from God known as the
Qur'an, which is the Final Testament. He came with a message of peace and
reconciliation, mercy and compassion. Yet, ever since the beginning of the
call of Islam, its image and that of Muslims has been subject to distortion,
misconceptions and misinterpretations.
In our age, the media plays a crucial role in that distortion. Islam is
given a sinister image. A word, which is often negatively associated with
certain acts of violence, is the Arabic word: jihad. Its significance plays
an extremely crucial role in the image of Islam. But, what does this so -
widely known - word mean?
Jihad indeed has a great significance in Islam. In order to understand the
exact meaning of the word we have to start with lexicon. Like any language,
Arabic has unique words, which have a particular meaning that cannot be
accurately translated. The best translation known for such a word is the
following: a sincere and noticeable effort (for good); an all-true and
unselfish striving for spiritual goodness.
Jihad, a Strive for Goodness and Righteousness:
Jihad, as presented in the Qur'an implies the striving towards the ideal.
This jihad, particularly involves change in one's self and mentality. It may
concern the sacrifice of material property, social class constraints and
even emotional comfort, solely for the salvation and worship of God alone.
As a result, one who practices jihad will gain inward peace in this world
and reward in the Hereafter.
The Qur'an says in Surah 93, verse 4:
*{The Hereafter is far better for you than this first [life].}*
In Surah 6, verse 135, Allah says:
*{Say: "O my people, do your best, and so will I. You will surely find out
who the ultimate victors are." Certainly, the wicked will never succeed.}*
Jihad involves noticeable effort for righteousness. This means that the
effort concentrated in jihad is a step in the true and ultimate path of
Islam; the effort addressed to the benefit of one's self. Thus, jihad on
this level is individual and self-centered. It aims at soul purification.
This effort is simply the doing of good, seeking divine mercy and pardon of
Allah.
The Qur'an points this out in Surah 16, verse 111:
*{ The day will come when every soul will serve as its own advocate, and
every soul will be paid fully for whatever it had done, without the least
injustice.}*
Also, in Surah 3, verse 30:
*{The day will come when each soul will find all the good works it had
done brought forth. As for the evil works, it will wish that they were far,
far removed. God alerts you that you shall reverence Him alone. God is
Compassionate towards the people.}*
In respect to the above Qur'anic verses, God tells the believers that all
acts will reflect the soul of their authors. Examples of this jihad would be
to exceed in the sincere act of good deeds (to frequent the mosques that
worship God alone more often; to study the scripture in details, to help the
poor and the orphans, to stand for people's right for freedom, be equitable,
never bear witness false testimony, frequent and stay in good terms with
friends and neighbors, etc.) and the restraining of doing of sins
(committing adultery, steeling, to lying, cheating, insulting people,
gossiping, etc.); as it is clarified in Surah 4, verse 124:
*{As for those who lead a righteous life, male or female, while believing,
they enter Paradise; without the slightest injustice.}*
The previous Qur'anic verse highlights the meaning of jihad and its role. It
has also mentioned the importance of the sincerity when it is practiced.
Jihad puts emphasis on the individual accountability and the weight of the
individual strive in man's relation with Allah.
Jihad and Justice:
Jihadalso includes the striving and establishing of justice. Before one can
strive for justice in his/her community, justice must be one of his/her main
religious and moral principles.
Jihad may also reflect the position of Islam, regarding crisis management
and enforcement of humanitarian international laws. The fighting of a war in
the name of justice or Islam, to deter an aggressor, for self-defense,
and/or to establish justice and freedom to practice religion, would also be
considered jihad.
The Qur'an says in Surah 22, verse 78:
*{You shall strive for the cause of God as you should strive for His
cause.}*
The previous Qur'anic verse incites man to strive, in the cause of God. The
cause of God is justice and freedom for all, maintaining the Qur'anic
principle; *{No compulsion in religion.}* on top of the list. (Stated in
Surah 2, verse 256.)
The Qur'an also says in Surah 4, verse 124:
*{As for those who lead a righteous life, male or female, while believing,
they enter Paradise; without the slightest injustice.}*
Surah 4, verse 65 says:
*{Never indeed, by your Lord; they are not believers unless they come to
you to judge in their disputes, then find no hesitation in their hearts
whatsoever in accepting your judgment. They must submit a total
submission.}*
Surah 4, verse 135 says:
*{O you who believe, you shall be absolutely equitable, and observe God,
when you serve as witnesses, even against yourselves, or your parents, or
your relatives. Whether the accused is rich or poor, God takes care of both.
Therefore, do not be biased by your personal wishes. If you deviate or
disregard [this commandment], then God is Fully Cognizant of everything you
do.}*
Since this verse shows that God accepts only justice, fighting in the name
of God is fighting in the name of justice. But, contrary to many people's
interpretation, jihad is anything but a "holy" war.
In the light and essence of Islam and the Qur'an, there is no war, which is
holy; this, under any circumstances whatsoever. In fact, the whole text of
the Qur'an and the religion of Islam revolves around the concept of peace,
not war. To many people's ignorance, Islam is also a word that share the
same root of the Arabic word: salaam, meaning peace. According to Islam, war
is unholy; jihad must mean anything but "holy" war.
However, there are times, in certain circumstances, when Islam tolerates,
permits and sometimes even accepts the practice of war. Islam strongly
emphasizes the ideas of justice, freedom and opposition to oppression. There
is also another condition, which is fighting for the sake of self-defense.
War is tolerated in these conditions, but if there is a possibility to avoid
war, then this opportunity, as long as it is for the just cause, must be
seized.
The Qur'an says in Surah 8, verses 60 - 61:
*{You shall prepare for them all the power you can muster, and all the
equipment you can mobilize, that you may frighten the enemies of GOD, your
enemies, as well as others who are not known to you; God knows them.
Whatever you spend in the cause of GOD will be repaid to you generously,
without the least injustice.
If they resort to peace, so shall you, and put your trust in God. He is
the Hearer, the Omniscient.}*
Self-defense involves struggle against oppression, aggression and tyranny;
Islam tolerates the use of force in these cases. The Qur'an says in Surah
22, verses 39 - 40:
*{Permission [to fight] is granted to those who are being persecuted,
since injustice has befallen them, and GOD is certainly able to support them
[with victory].
They were evicted from their homes unjustly, for no reason other than
saying, "Our Lord is God." If it were not for God's supporting of some
people against others, monasteries, churches, synagogues, and masjids
[mosques] - where the name of God is commemorated frequently - would have
been destroyed. Absolutely, God supports those who support Him. God is
Powerful, Almighty.}*
The other condition and perhaps the most important and often confused as a
holy war, is the war in the name of God, which actually means in the cause
of God. This is as God does not encourage war, but rather encourages peace
whenever possible. Fighting an oppressor or aggressor is fighting against
oppression or aggression, thus it is fighting for justice and therefore in
the name (cause) of God. Please see Surah 2, verse 244 and Surah 22, verse
78.
Also in Surah 4, verses 74 - 75:
*{Those who readily fight in the cause of God are those who forsake this
world in favor of the Hereafter. Whoever fights in the cause of God, then
gets killed, or attains victory, we will surely grant him a great
recompense.
Why should you not fight in the cause of God when weak men, women, and
children are imploring: "Our Lord, deliver us from this community whose
people are oppressive, and be You our Lord and Master."}*
Even in times of war, the Muslim must respect his adversaries' humanity.
Mere, brutal and barbaric atrocities are prohibited in Islam. Islam condemns
barbaric killing of any human being. During military actions, civilians must
not be targeted, as long as they do not attack, provoke or share directly in
the war. Enemies, even at time of war, must be treated justly. Prisoners of
war have basic human rights, stated in shari`a.
If victory is achieved in any war for justice, then there is to be no
oppression, revenge or injustice to the people of the enemy. Nor must there
be control over the sources of the wealth of the nation or people, or even
establishment of colonial regimes. Justice and freedom must be established.
Tolerance towards cultures and peoples is basic too.
Allah says in Surah 16, verse 90:
*{God advocates justice, charity, and regarding the relatives. And He
forbids evil, vice, and transgression. He enlightens you, that you may take
heed.}*
Surah 49, verse 13 says:
*{O people, we created you from the same male and female, and rendered you
distinct peoples and tribes, that you may recognize one another. The best
among you in the sight of God is the most righteous. God is Omniscient,
Cognizant.}*
In Brief and allow me to repeat again: the meaning the media gives to this
word (jihad) is false. This word does not mean a holy war, for there is
nothing holy about a war in Islam. Islam is a religion that revolves around
the concept of peace.
You can also read more about jihad, if you are interested.
And here are some links the virgin issue directly:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/saturday_review/story/0,3605,631332,00.html
Here are more links for general information:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/islam/index.shtml
http://www.islam-online.net
http://www.islam.org
"Al Browne" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Christians are taught to turn the other cheek when one is slapped in
> the face. We are taught that we will be rewarded in heaven if we are
> sorry for our sins. God will always love us unconditionally.
>
> Jews are told that when they die that is the end, period!
>
> Muslims are taught that they need to kill Christians and Jews
> (infidels) to be rewarded in paradise with 72 sexy virgins.
>
> Christianity wins...hands down!
Congratulations you get the "Moron of the week" title.
NB. You can win this title twice in a row (there is no limit)
"SwampBug" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> It matters not whether the story be true! Change the names all you want, ,
> ,the logic is not affected and retains validity. Even as an analogy it
> remains valid. If the model MUST have been built by someone, the real
thing
> needs even more a builder.
The universe that we experience started as infinitely dense, infinitely hot,
infinitely curved spacetime. It organized itself after that, an organization
that is still going on. It's unlikely we'll ever know what caused the
initial explosion, whether our universe budded off another one, or whether
these cosmic spacetime pops are as common as rain. We can't stand outside
our universe and observe. But from the first quadrillionth of a second,
perfectly logical physical laws explain the rest. There's no need for a
creator. It's like ignoring temperature gradients and Coriolis force and
insisting that winds need a creator. The universe happened. Here we are,
tra-la.
-- Ernie
TonyaK911 <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "William Graham" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<inHYa.93385$uu5.13701@sccrnsc04>...
>
> > > Sir, as someone whose specialty has been logic, let me state that,
> > > logically speaking, there is NO FORMAL LOGICAL PROOF of non-existence
> > > of G-d. Better philosophers than yourself tried and failed to find
> > > such proof.
> >
> > Well try this: If you were to tell me that you have a new ford in your
> > garage, I would have no reason to doubt it. Ford sells millions of
vehicles
> > every year, at a very reasonable price, and there is no reason for you
to
> > lie, so I would believe it hands down. But if you were to tell me that
you
> > keep a pet elephant in your garage, I would not believe it. I would have
no
> > absolute proof that you were lying, but there are probably exactly zero
> > elephants in garages here in the US, and elephants require a lot more
space
> > than that, and so the probability that you were being truthful would be
so
> > small that no reasonable person would believe you for a New York minute.
> > Now, lets get to the Christian myth. This is such a convoluted,
ridiculous
> > bunch of impossible claptrap, that no reasonable person could possible
> > believe it. What with pillars of salt, parting ocean waters and the rest
of
> > the BS, the probability of it being true is so remote, that it would
take an
> > absolute babbling imbecile to entertain it for a second. So, until you
come
> > up with a story that is a little better than this, you are just going to
> > have to accept the fact that the only way you can get anyone to believe
it
> > is to take them at a very young age, and destroy any semblance of logic
in
> > them by continuous brainwashing at regular intervals throughout their
lives,
> > and even then, the chances are pretty good they will wise up on or about
the
> > time they rfind out that there is no Santa Clause, and all your efforts
will
> > be wasted anyway. Absolute proof? - No, no one can proove that something
> > ISN'T there. But from a practicle matter, it is obvious to any thinking
> > person that if you can't see it, smell it, touch it, hear it, or taste
it,
> > and no machine created by science can detect it either, then it very
likely
> > is not there......That's good enough for me.
>
> The great physicist, Sir Isaac Newton, wrote: "This most beautiful
> system of the sun, planets and comets, could only proceed from the
> counsel and dominion of an intelligent Being" - "Principia" 2nd
> Edition
>
> If you cannot see the Universe, touch it, smell it, hear it or taste
> it then its very likely you're not there...
>
> An interesting apocraphal story about Newton:
> An atheist scientist, a friend of Sir Isaac Newton, came to visit the
> great physicist after he had just finished making his solar system
> machine (ie one of the machines like the one in the science museum
> where you crank the handle and the planets and moons move round).
> The man saw the machine and said 'how wonderful' and went over to it
> and started cranking the handle and the planets went round. As he was
> doing this he asked 'who made this?'. Sir Isaac stopped writing and
> said 'nobody did'. Then he carried on writing. The man said 'You
> didn't hear me. Who made the machine?' . Newton replied 'I told you.
> Nobody did.' He stopped cranking and turned to Isaac 'Now listen
> Isaac, this marvellous machine must have been made by somebody - don't
> keep saying that nobody made it.'
> At which point Isaac Newton stopped writing and got up. He looked at
> him and said 'Now isn't it amazing. I tell you that nobody made a
> simple toy like that and you don't believe me. Yet you gaze out into
> the solar system - the intricate marvelous machine that is around you
> - and you dare say to me that noone made THAT?'
>
> Newton's science was closely related to his theology. In the General
> Scholium of his Principia, he states that its purpose was to establish
> the existence of God (of course, as I've pointed out in my post above,
> neither positive nor negative formal logical proof cannot be found -
> thet's why are talking about BELIEF system.) His work was to combat
> atheism, challenge the purely mechanical explanation of the world, and
> point to the need (called "imperative" by later philosophers) for a
> wise and benevolent deity and an intelligent Creator. He believed that
> the Universe was governed by general, natural laws set up by God, but
> preserved by special providence.
>
> Of course, compared to your intellect, Newton's was just a result of
> brainwashing...
>
> Here's another story is about two pfysicist-geniuses.
> Pauli asks Heisenberg the big one ..............
> Wolfgang Pauli: "Do you believe in a personal god?"
> Heisenberg: "May I rephrase your question?
> "I myself should prefer the following formulation: Can you, or anyone
> else, reach the central order of things or events, whose existence
> seems beyond doubt, as directly as you can reach the soul of another
> human being? I am using the term "soul" quite deliberately so as not
> to be misunderstood. If you put your question like that, I would say
> yes."
> Werner Heisenberg (Physics and Beyond)
> New York: Harper & Row, 1971 - Page 215
>
> TK9
All of the above consists in the argument that one should believe in what
some, (or several) people of authority believe. I can find idiot savants who
are capable of performing marvelous things, but are still idiots in
everything else. I can also find very respected scientists, even Nobel prize
winners, who are atheists. But I choose to think for myself. Since there are
those who do not believe whom I respect, how can I do anything else? The
same is true of my politics. There are brilliant men and women who are on
opposite sides of the political spectrum. So, using a reliance on authority
to decide is not a wise philosophy. I choose to make my own decisions based
on my knowledge and experience. - I believe that everyone should do this. As
I've said before, it isn't just the existence of a supreme intellect that's
at stake here. If that's all there was, then it would not be hard for me to
say, "Well, its possible". But the Christians, (and others) want me to
believe is some complicated convoluted tale composed of nursery rhymes,
dragons, physical impossibilities, and such other clap-trap that I can only
laugh at. Did anyone ever ask Newton how Moses parted the waters? Or changed
water into wine? or turned some guys wife into a pillar of salt? - And if
they did, what did Newton say? I think that he would have said that he
didn't really believe in all that. And so what's it come down to? If the
great God, creator of the universe, just created it and then left, never to
be seen again, then what's he good for, anyway? - It doesn't really matter
weather you believe in him or not. Only if he sticks around and listens to
your prayers and intervenes in your life in some way is he worth a damn.
God, has never done anything for me. I have no evidence that he exists at
all. Certainly not in my lifetime. So, what does it really matter weather I
believe in him or not? The same floods, tidal waves, volcanic eruptions,
lightening strikes, and plagues are killing as many innocent people as
guilty today as they ever have. No god has intervened to save or otherwise
help one living soul over what random probability would dictate anyway. -
So, if he does nothing for us, then what good is he? - And why would I even
acknowledge his existence, much less worship him. Anyone deserving of my
worship has to have more use than that. - I didn't ask him to be born.....He
did me no favors in that reguard. - I would have been just as well off had I
never existed. There are an infinite number of people who never
existed.....:^) Why would I want to worship somebody for taking me out of
that crowd? I've got a good question for you. - Tell me, why do you believe
in a god anyway? - What has it ever done for you other than use up some of
your valuable time on Sunday morning? Does he help save you from the fear of
death? - Why would you be afraid of being in the same state you were in for
billions of years before you were born? It didn't hurt you then, so why
would you fear it in the future? I never knew any pain before I was born. -
I will know none after I am dead. But I have known a lot of it here on this
earth. And seen much, much more of it in the other creatures that I share
this existence with. Have you ever asked yourself why god lets the deer and
other creatures starve to death in the Wintertime? - What purpose do you
suppose he has for that? Just a simple question like that would be what I
would have put to your Isaac Newton.......
"Made In America" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Susan Cohen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "Made In America" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > > "jack mehoff" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...
> > > >
> > > > "Al Browne" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > > Christians are taught to turn the other cheek when one is slapped
in
> > > > > the face. We are taught that we will be rewarded in heaven if we
are
> > > > > sorry for our sins. God will always love us unconditionally.
> > > > >
> > > > > Jews are told that when they die that is the end, period!
> > > > >
> > > > > Muslims are taught that they need to kill Christians and Jews
> > > > > (infidels) to be rewarded in paradise with 72 sexy virgins.
> > > > >
> > > > > Christianity wins...hands down!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Congratulations you get the "Moron of the week" title.
> > > >
> > > > NB. You can win this title twice in a row (there is no limit)
> > > >
> > >
> > > Trolling again, huh Jack?
> >
> > Well, for once, "jack" is right on target.
> >
> > Susan
>
> tsk tsk Susan :) You and I both know Jack would make his Self
> Gratification award presentation to anyone religious, not just Jews vs
> Christians vs Islam. But, I see your point.....agreeing with Jack is
> certainly rare on any occasion, so....take it while it's there :)
Why thank you but hey Maid in America tell people the real reason you are
pissed with me.............cos I kicked yor ass in soc.culture.french. Cmon
on man lets start here as well.I need the laugh.
Joel M. Eichen D.D.S. <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I heard it was twelve. What caused the increase to 72?
>
When Bush raised the reward for OBL to $25K, they raised the virgin count
from 12 to 72........
LOL Too funny Joel!
Linda.
Joel M. Eichen D.D.S. <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> There are going to be lots of
> disappointed terrorists in heaven I just know!
>
>
> On Thu, 07 Aug 2003 21:15:27 GMT, "Ernie Jurick" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Joel M. Eichen D.D.S." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> >
> >> What? You only get 72 raisins for being a terorrism guy?
> >
> >Yes on the raisins, although the specific number is uncertain. Reading
> >"virgins" for "raisins" is a Qu'ranic whoops!, similar to the reading of
> >virgin for "young woman" in the Bible.
> >-- Ernie
> >
>
> --
> Joel M. Eichen, D.D.S.
> Philadelphia PA
>
> STANDARD DISCLAIMER applies:
> no one has seen the tooth or
> teeth in question so take
> this advice within its proper
> context ~ this is the internet!
>
> "William Graham" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:c5HYa.93253$uu5.13920@sccrnsc04...
> >
> > Joel M. Eichen D.D.S. <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > Another important point is the 72 virgins ............ now various
> > > other religious groups up the number or decrease the number, depending
> > > on supply and demand I guess .......
> >
> > Yeah.....And they better start taking advantage of the offer.....Once all
> > those American soldiers get settled down in the Near East, the virgin
> count
> > will start to plummet.........
> >
> >
>
> Yeah, one of the benefits the French got out of both world wars was that
> after the Yanks arrived their women could sleep with someone that didn't
> call them "Fraulein". Those raghers will now have the chance to yell some
> name other than "Mohammed" when the fireworks go off... :)
>
> Tom
>
>
> .
HAHAHAHAHAHA! this is f**king good!
>
> Mike <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:c2%[email protected]...
> >
> > "Johan Lexington" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > Christianity is the only true religion. Follow Jesus and you will be
> > saved.
> >
> > LOL!!!!!! you have got to be kidding. Religion is the single biggest
> sham
> > perpetrated on mankind the world has ever seen.
> >
> >
> Except the poor, frightened sheep perpetrated it on themselves........
>
well no, if they were sheep they followed some charismatic leader who perpetrated it
on them.
"Blake McCully" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Umm..... I'd just like to know what is the best finish for red oak? Spray
> poly, varnish, lacquer, or shellac. Ooops, I thought that this was
> rec.woodworking not rec.evangelist.religion.
"Those who live by the blade shall die by the blade, unless it equipped with
a SawStop conversion."
-- Ernie
Wow, amazing rationale Susan!
"Susan Cohen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "FA" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > > Negotiate! Come to the table like human beings. Resist terrorists in
> > > your own neighborhoods. If it happened once in America, every neighbor
> > > would turn in the guilty party, regardless of their creed, religion,
> > > or race!
> > Negotiate!! Why didn't Bush negotiate with Saddam or with Al-Qaeda?
People
> > don't negnotiate with those they think are evil-this goes for both
sides.
> >
> >
> > > Pizza Hut in Jerusalem is not a military target now is it?
> > No it's not, and its wrong. But perhaps this civillians should consider
> the
> > fact that they are on occupied land.
>
> Nope.
>
> The nation of Israel was created by
> > illegal means
>
> Absolutely not.
>
> by usurping what was the rightful propery of Palestinians.
> >
> Most definitely not.
>
> Susan
>
>
[email protected] (Al Browne) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Christians are taught to turn the other cheek when one is slapped in
> the face. We are taught that we will be rewarded in heaven if we are
> sorry for our sins. God will always love us unconditionally.
>
> Jews are told that when they die that is the end, period!
>
> Muslims are taught that they need to kill Christians and Jews
> (infidels) to be rewarded in paradise with 72 sexy virgins.
>
> Christianity wins...hands down!
Quran does not say anything about the 72 virgins. For other sources
one must turn to the six books of Hadith, consisting of sayings of
Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w), among which Malik's Muwatta and Bukhari are
considered more reliable. Out of the other four Hadith books, Tirmidhi
is the main source for the belief. It was only in the sixth century
A.H. that Tirmidhi's Jami' was accepted as one of the canonical books
on Hadith. Sahih Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, Sunan Abu Dawud and Sunan
Nasai all received acceptance before Tirmidhi's Jami' and they all
have several transmitters whose versions were handed down through
various transmissions. The other source is Ibn Khatir's "tafseer"
(commentary) on the Quran. In a recent translation of his work, one
can find a note from the publisher saying, "We are aware that Ibn
Kathir's original work does contain some weak narrations as well as a
number of Traditions related from the People of the Book (i.e. the
Jews and the Christians." Therefore, one can say that if a theological
issue only has to rest on Tirmidhi and Ibn Khatir's commentary, it
probably wouldn't be considered as reliable. And that explains Muslims
denial that this view is representative of common Islamic beliefs.
As far as the descriptions of Paradise is concerned in the Quran, the
idea is that each person who believes in God and has good deeds would
be rewarded in the hereafter with whatever his or her heart would
desire, if that means beautiful women, then so be it. Even if you
consider that each man would receive 70 women, then you need to be
aware that 7 or 70 in Semitic languages indicates plurality and is not
always indicative of the actual number. Anyway, what are 72 women over
period of an eternity!
Joel M. Eichen D.D.S. <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> On 7 Aug 2003 14:08:13 -0700, [email protected] (1MAN4ALL) wrote:
>
> >Anyway, what are 72 women over
> >period of an eternity!
>
> REPLY:
>
> Not bad but if they give you the 72 raisins instead, well then that is
> something else!
You need to read my earlier response. Furthermore, according to Ibn
Abbas, the earliest theologian of Islam, there is no comparison
between things found on this earth with those that would be in Heaven.
Quran also says the same thing, "[32.17] So no soul knows what is
hidden for them of that which will refresh the eyes; a reward for what
they did." There is also a saying of Prophet Muhammad that, "God has
stated that I have created things for the pious [in Paradise] that no
man has seen or heard or has ever thought about." The idea is that
Paradise will be a place of eternal bliss where people, who lived all
their lives practicing self-restraint and doing good, will find all
they ever wished for.
"Susan Cohen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Made In America" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "jack mehoff" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > > "Al Browne" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > Christians are taught to turn the other cheek when one is slapped in
> > > > the face. We are taught that we will be rewarded in heaven if we are
> > > > sorry for our sins. God will always love us unconditionally.
> > > >
> > > > Jews are told that when they die that is the end, period!
> > > >
> > > > Muslims are taught that they need to kill Christians and Jews
> > > > (infidels) to be rewarded in paradise with 72 sexy virgins.
> > > >
> > > > Christianity wins...hands down!
> > >
> > >
> > > Congratulations you get the "Moron of the week" title.
> > >
> > > NB. You can win this title twice in a row (there is no limit)
> > >
> >
> > Trolling again, huh Jack?
>
> Well, for once, "jack" is right on target.
>
> Susan
tsk tsk Susan :) You and I both know Jack would make his Self
Gratification award presentation to anyone religious, not just Jews vs
Christians vs Islam. But, I see your point.....agreeing with Jack is
certainly rare on any occasion, so....take it while it's there :)
He didn't say God (my language's word for a supreme being..substitute your
own title) was a sham, but rather religion. Since time began we have
attributed things which we could not explain as God's work. As science has
explained many of those things we find that some support biblical writings
and some don't. If you believe in evolution, you still get to a point of not
being able to explain what created that first one celled animal.
Peoples biggest fear is of dying. All religions offer at least one solution
but most of us are brought up to believe in heaven and hell as the options.
The thought of eternal damnation tends to keep us in line with the moral
teachings of those who have risen as religious leaders. The idea of an
after life predates ALL modern religions.
Religion is good. It has brought us bingo and kept a lot of old school buses
out of the land fill. What has happened in the name of religion over the
centuries is not always good, however.
To the real point: Noah was a boat builder, Jesus was a carpenter, did
Muhammad ever pick up a hammer?
Gene
"Johan Lexington" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> You should be ashamed of yourself! God is watching!
>
> >
> > LOL!!!!!! you have got to be kidding. Religion is the single biggest
sham
> > perpetrated on mankind the world has ever seen.
"Johan Lexington" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Christianity is the only true religion. Follow Jesus and you will be
saved.
LOL!!!!!! you have got to be kidding. Religion is the single biggest sham
perpetrated on mankind the world has ever seen.
Joel M. Eichen D.D.S. <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Another important point is the 72 virgins ............ now various
> other religious groups up the number or decrease the number, depending
> on supply and demand I guess .......
Yeah.....And they better start taking advantage of the offer.....Once all
those American soldiers get settled down in the Near East, the virgin count
will start to plummet.........
On Thu, 07 Aug 2003 16:17:33 GMT, "FA" <[email protected]> wrote:
>You're obviously an ignorant person. I'm a practicing Muslim and I can
>assure you the whole virgin thing has been blown out of proportion to demean
>us. If you're happy with your religion, good for you, just don't go around
>demeaning others and villifying others when all evil seems to originate in
>your own backyard.
>
>> Christians are taught to turn the other cheek when one is slapped in
>> the face. We are taught that we will be rewarded in heaven if we are
>> sorry for our sins. God will always love us unconditionally.
>
>It wasn't Muslims who invaded Iraq with all soldiers carrying Bibles with
>the words "operation iraqi freedom" written on it. It was a war lead by a
>right wing born-again Christian who's view of the world is based on the
>Bible and who had no problem with missionaries pouring into Iraq and
>Afghanistan right after the bombs had fallen. Talk about spreading beliefs
>with the might of missiles, bombs and other weapons of mass destruction.
No-o-o-o-o-o-o, I just hate seeing the World Trade Center come down
..........
>
>I'm happy with my religion, and I admire those who have found peace with
>theirs. But don't expect oppressed people to simply sit back.
K.
> People do
>crazy things when they're desperate, but the proper response is not to
>villify all similar to the deseparate ones, but to address the root causes.
We agree, but first, stop letting and encouraging young people to
destroy themselves ......... it ain't worth it!
>Everyone knows the root cause, but no one wants to address it because its
>much easier to kill people then face the loss of oil, money, power,
>influence and superiority. Face it!
>
>"Al Browne" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Christians are taught to turn the other cheek when one is slapped in
>> the face. We are taught that we will be rewarded in heaven if we are
>> sorry for our sins. God will always love us unconditionally.
>>
>> Jews are told that when they die that is the end, period!
>>
>> Muslims are taught that they need to kill Christians and Jews
>> (infidels) to be rewarded in paradise with 72 sexy virgins.
>>
>> Christianity wins...hands down!
>
--
Joel M. Eichen, D.D.S.
Philadelphia PA
STANDARD DISCLAIMER applies:
no one has seen the tooth or
teeth in question so take
this advice within its proper
context ~ this is the internet!
"William Graham" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<gXmYa.85241$uu5.11321@sccrnsc04>...
> Mike <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "Susan Cohen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > > "Al Browne" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > Christians are taught to turn the other cheek when one is slapped in
> > > > the face. We are taught that we will be rewarded in heaven if we are
> > > > sorry for our sins. God will always love us unconditionally.
> > > >
> > > > Jews are told that when they die that is the end, period!
> > >
> > > Oh, we are?
> > > >
> > > > Muslims are taught that they need to kill Christians and Jews
> > > > (infidels) to be rewarded in paradise with 72 sexy virgins.
> > > >
> > > > Christianity wins...hands down!
> > >
> > > Only if you're ignorant.
> > >
> > > Susan
> > >
> > >
> > Susan, may be instead of saying "Only if you're ignorant" you could
> > enlighten him. :)
> >
> >
> People who believe what they are, "taught", instead of believing what their
> own logic dictates, cannot become, "enlightened".
Sir, as someone whose specialty has been logic, let me state that,
logically speaking, there is NO FORMAL LOGICAL PROOF of non-existence
of G-d. Better philosophers than yourself tried and failed to find
such proof.
Religion is a system of beliefs, and as you chose to BELIEVE in world
without Creator, religious people chose to BELIEVE otherwise.
Therefore, logic dictates that, just based on your and my personal
BELIEF PREFERENCES WITHOUT PROOF, you can be no more enlightened than
me.
Let's get to the point of the discussion now. The root post asserted
something about Judaism, that's easy to prove false: "Jews are told
that when they die that is the end, period!" Susan and other Jews said
it was a lie. So, since you've decided you can bring some
enlightenment to this discussion, let me ask you: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT
JEWS ARE TOLD SUCH NONSENSE, OR DO YOU THINK AL BROWNE MADE IT UP?
That is the question under discussion, and people who participate in
this discussion will appreciate if you could stick to the point of
this discussion.
I thank you in advance.
TK9
"William Graham" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<inHYa.93385$uu5.13701@sccrnsc04>...
> > Sir, as someone whose specialty has been logic, let me state that,
> > logically speaking, there is NO FORMAL LOGICAL PROOF of non-existence
> > of G-d. Better philosophers than yourself tried and failed to find
> > such proof.
>
> Well try this: If you were to tell me that you have a new ford in your
> garage, I would have no reason to doubt it. Ford sells millions of vehicles
> every year, at a very reasonable price, and there is no reason for you to
> lie, so I would believe it hands down. But if you were to tell me that you
> keep a pet elephant in your garage, I would not believe it. I would have no
> absolute proof that you were lying, but there are probably exactly zero
> elephants in garages here in the US, and elephants require a lot more space
> than that, and so the probability that you were being truthful would be so
> small that no reasonable person would believe you for a New York minute.
> Now, lets get to the Christian myth. This is such a convoluted, ridiculous
> bunch of impossible claptrap, that no reasonable person could possible
> believe it. What with pillars of salt, parting ocean waters and the rest of
> the BS, the probability of it being true is so remote, that it would take an
> absolute babbling imbecile to entertain it for a second. So, until you come
> up with a story that is a little better than this, you are just going to
> have to accept the fact that the only way you can get anyone to believe it
> is to take them at a very young age, and destroy any semblance of logic in
> them by continuous brainwashing at regular intervals throughout their lives,
> and even then, the chances are pretty good they will wise up on or about the
> time they rfind out that there is no Santa Clause, and all your efforts will
> be wasted anyway. Absolute proof? - No, no one can proove that something
> ISN'T there. But from a practicle matter, it is obvious to any thinking
> person that if you can't see it, smell it, touch it, hear it, or taste it,
> and no machine created by science can detect it either, then it very likely
> is not there......That's good enough for me.
The great physicist, Sir Isaac Newton, wrote: "This most beautiful
system of the sun, planets and comets, could only proceed from the
counsel and dominion of an intelligent Being" - "Principia" 2nd
Edition
If you cannot see the Universe, touch it, smell it, hear it or taste
it then its very likely you're not there...
An interesting apocraphal story about Newton:
An atheist scientist, a friend of Sir Isaac Newton, came to visit the
great physicist after he had just finished making his solar system
machine (ie one of the machines like the one in the science museum
where you crank the handle and the planets and moons move round).
The man saw the machine and said 'how wonderful' and went over to it
and started cranking the handle and the planets went round. As he was
doing this he asked 'who made this?'. Sir Isaac stopped writing and
said 'nobody did'. Then he carried on writing. The man said 'You
didn't hear me. Who made the machine?' . Newton replied 'I told you.
Nobody did.' He stopped cranking and turned to Isaac 'Now listen
Isaac, this marvellous machine must have been made by somebody - don't
keep saying that nobody made it.'
At which point Isaac Newton stopped writing and got up. He looked at
him and said 'Now isn't it amazing. I tell you that nobody made a
simple toy like that and you don't believe me. Yet you gaze out into
the solar system - the intricate marvelous machine that is around you
- and you dare say to me that noone made THAT?'
Newton's science was closely related to his theology. In the General
Scholium of his Principia, he states that its purpose was to establish
the existence of God (of course, as I've pointed out in my post above,
neither positive nor negative formal logical proof cannot be found -
thet's why are talking about BELIEF system.) His work was to combat
atheism, challenge the purely mechanical explanation of the world, and
point to the need (called "imperative" by later philosophers) for a
wise and benevolent deity and an intelligent Creator. He believed that
the Universe was governed by general, natural laws set up by God, but
preserved by special providence.
Of course, compared to your intellect, Newton's was just a result of
brainwashing...
Here's another story is about two pfysicist-geniuses.
Pauli asks Heisenberg the big one ..............
Wolfgang Pauli: "Do you believe in a personal god?"
Heisenberg: "May I rephrase your question?
"I myself should prefer the following formulation: Can you, or anyone
else, reach the central order of things or events, whose existence
seems beyond doubt, as directly as you can reach the soul of another
human being? I am using the term "soul" quite deliberately so as not
to be misunderstood. If you put your question like that, I would say
yes."
Werner Heisenberg (Physics and Beyond)
New York: Harper & Row, 1971 - Page 215
TK9
"William Graham" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<MaXYa.100705$uu5.14493@sccrnsc04>...
> TonyaK911 <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > "William Graham" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<inHYa.93385$uu5.13701@sccrnsc04>...
> >
> > > > Sir, as someone whose specialty has been logic, let me state that,
> > > > logically speaking, there is NO FORMAL LOGICAL PROOF of non-existence
> > > > of G-d. Better philosophers than yourself tried and failed to find
> > > > such proof.
> > >
> > > Well try this: If you were to tell me that you have a new ford in your
> > > garage, I would have no reason to doubt it. Ford sells millions of
> vehicles
> > > every year, at a very reasonable price, and there is no reason for you
> to
> > > lie, so I would believe it hands down. But if you were to tell me that
> you
> > > keep a pet elephant in your garage, I would not believe it. I would have
> no
> > > absolute proof that you were lying, but there are probably exactly zero
> > > elephants in garages here in the US, and elephants require a lot more
> space
> > > than that, and so the probability that you were being truthful would be
> so
> > > small that no reasonable person would believe you for a New York minute.
> > > Now, lets get to the Christian myth. This is such a convoluted,
> ridiculous
> > > bunch of impossible claptrap, that no reasonable person could possible
> > > believe it. What with pillars of salt, parting ocean waters and the rest
> of
> > > the BS, the probability of it being true is so remote, that it would
> take an
> > > absolute babbling imbecile to entertain it for a second. So, until you
> come
> > > up with a story that is a little better than this, you are just going to
> > > have to accept the fact that the only way you can get anyone to believe
> it
> > > is to take them at a very young age, and destroy any semblance of logic
> in
> > > them by continuous brainwashing at regular intervals throughout their
> lives,
> > > and even then, the chances are pretty good they will wise up on or about
> the
> > > time they rfind out that there is no Santa Clause, and all your efforts
> will
> > > be wasted anyway. Absolute proof? - No, no one can proove that something
> > > ISN'T there. But from a practicle matter, it is obvious to any thinking
> > > person that if you can't see it, smell it, touch it, hear it, or taste
> it,
> > > and no machine created by science can detect it either, then it very
> likely
> > > is not there......That's good enough for me.
> >
> > The great physicist, Sir Isaac Newton, wrote: "This most beautiful
> > system of the sun, planets and comets, could only proceed from the
> > counsel and dominion of an intelligent Being" - "Principia" 2nd
> > Edition
> >
> > If you cannot see the Universe, touch it, smell it, hear it or taste
> > it then its very likely you're not there...
> >
> > An interesting apocraphal story about Newton:
> > An atheist scientist, a friend of Sir Isaac Newton, came to visit the
> > great physicist after he had just finished making his solar system
> > machine (ie one of the machines like the one in the science museum
> > where you crank the handle and the planets and moons move round).
> > The man saw the machine and said 'how wonderful' and went over to it
> > and started cranking the handle and the planets went round. As he was
> > doing this he asked 'who made this?'. Sir Isaac stopped writing and
> > said 'nobody did'. Then he carried on writing. The man said 'You
> > didn't hear me. Who made the machine?' . Newton replied 'I told you.
> > Nobody did.' He stopped cranking and turned to Isaac 'Now listen
> > Isaac, this marvellous machine must have been made by somebody - don't
> > keep saying that nobody made it.'
> > At which point Isaac Newton stopped writing and got up. He looked at
> > him and said 'Now isn't it amazing. I tell you that nobody made a
> > simple toy like that and you don't believe me. Yet you gaze out into
> > the solar system - the intricate marvelous machine that is around you
> > - and you dare say to me that noone made THAT?'
> >
> > Newton's science was closely related to his theology. In the General
> > Scholium of his Principia, he states that its purpose was to establish
> > the existence of God (of course, as I've pointed out in my post above,
> > neither positive nor negative formal logical proof cannot be found -
> > thet's why are talking about BELIEF system.) His work was to combat
> > atheism, challenge the purely mechanical explanation of the world, and
> > point to the need (called "imperative" by later philosophers) for a
> > wise and benevolent deity and an intelligent Creator. He believed that
> > the Universe was governed by general, natural laws set up by God, but
> > preserved by special providence.
> >
> > Of course, compared to your intellect, Newton's was just a result of
> > brainwashing...
> >
> > Here's another story is about two pfysicist-geniuses.
> > Pauli asks Heisenberg the big one ..............
> > Wolfgang Pauli: "Do you believe in a personal god?"
> > Heisenberg: "May I rephrase your question?
> > "I myself should prefer the following formulation: Can you, or anyone
> > else, reach the central order of things or events, whose existence
> > seems beyond doubt, as directly as you can reach the soul of another
> > human being? I am using the term "soul" quite deliberately so as not
> > to be misunderstood. If you put your question like that, I would say
> > yes."
> > Werner Heisenberg (Physics and Beyond)
> > New York: Harper & Row, 1971 - Page 215
> >
> > TK9
>
> All of the above consists in the argument that one should believe in what
> some, (or several) people of authority believe. I can find idiot savants who
> are capable of performing marvelous things, but are still idiots in
> everything else. I can also find very respected scientists, even Nobel prize
> winners, who are atheists. But I choose to think for myself. Since there are
> those who do not believe whom I respect, how can I do anything else? The
> same is true of my politics. There are brilliant men and women who are on
> opposite sides of the political spectrum. So, using a reliance on authority
> to decide is not a wise philosophy. I choose to make my own decisions based
> on my knowledge and experience. - I believe that everyone should do this. As
> I've said before, it isn't just the existence of a supreme intellect that's
> at stake here. If that's all there was, then it would not be hard for me to
> say, "Well, its possible". But the Christians, (and others) want me to
> believe is some complicated convoluted tale composed of nursery rhymes,
> dragons, physical impossibilities, and such other clap-trap that I can only
> laugh at. Did anyone ever ask Newton how Moses parted the waters? Or changed
> water into wine? or turned some guys wife into a pillar of salt? - And if
> they did, what did Newton say? I think that he would have said that he
> didn't really believe in all that. And so what's it come down to? If the
> great God, creator of the universe, just created it and then left, never to
> be seen again, then what's he good for, anyway? - It doesn't really matter
> weather you believe in him or not. Only if he sticks around and listens to
> your prayers and intervenes in your life in some way is he worth a damn.
> God, has never done anything for me. I have no evidence that he exists at
> all. Certainly not in my lifetime. So, what does it really matter weather I
> believe in him or not? The same floods, tidal waves, volcanic eruptions,
> lightening strikes, and plagues are killing as many innocent people as
> guilty today as they ever have. No god has intervened to save or otherwise
> help one living soul over what random probability would dictate anyway. -
> So, if he does nothing for us, then what good is he? - And why would I even
> acknowledge his existence, much less worship him. Anyone deserving of my
> worship has to have more use than that. - I didn't ask him to be born.....He
> did me no favors in that reguard. - I would have been just as well off had I
> never existed. There are an infinite number of people who never
> existed.....:^) Why would I want to worship somebody for taking me out of
> that crowd? I've got a good question for you. - Tell me, why do you believe
> in a god anyway? - What has it ever done for you other than use up some of
> your valuable time on Sunday morning? Does he help save you from the fear of
> death? - Why would you be afraid of being in the same state you were in for
> billions of years before you were born? It didn't hurt you then, so why
> would you fear it in the future? I never knew any pain before I was born. -
> I will know none after I am dead. But I have known a lot of it here on this
> earth. And seen much, much more of it in the other creatures that I share
> this existence with. Have you ever asked yourself why god lets the deer and
> other creatures starve to death in the Wintertime? - What purpose do you
> suppose he has for that? Just a simple question like that would be what I
> would have put to your Isaac Newton.......
You presume a lot more than you really know.
And it shows.
See, my friend, I'm a Jew, and we believe in knowledge and deep study
of any matter before one opens his mouth.
But you may stay as you are.
Maybe that is your salvation - Christians believe their G-d loves
people with little knowledge - some day you might inherit the Earth,
according to their believes.
Ta-ta...
TK9
What? You only get 72 raisins for being a terorrism guy?
On Fri, 8 Aug 2003 02:45:37 +1200, "Tilly" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Joel M. Eichen D.D.S. wrote:
>> Another important point is the 72 virgins
>
>
>Don't you mean raisins/sultanas?
>
>
>Tilly
>
>
>
>[email protected]
>
--
Joel M. Eichen, D.D.S.
Philadelphia PA
STANDARD DISCLAIMER applies:
no one has seen the tooth or
teeth in question so take
this advice within its proper
context ~ this is the internet!
Mike <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Susan Cohen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "Al Browne" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > Christians are taught to turn the other cheek when one is slapped in
> > > the face. We are taught that we will be rewarded in heaven if we are
> > > sorry for our sins. God will always love us unconditionally.
> > >
> > > Jews are told that when they die that is the end, period!
> >
> > Oh, we are?
> > >
> > > Muslims are taught that they need to kill Christians and Jews
> > > (infidels) to be rewarded in paradise with 72 sexy virgins.
> > >
> > > Christianity wins...hands down!
> >
> > Only if you're ignorant.
> >
> > Susan
> >
> >
> Susan, may be instead of saying "Only if you're ignorant" you could
> enlighten him. :)
>
>
People who believe what they are, "taught", instead of believing what their
own logic dictates, cannot become, "enlightened".
On 7 Aug 2003 14:08:13 -0700, [email protected] (1MAN4ALL) wrote:
>Anyway, what are 72 women over
>period of an eternity!
REPLY:
Not bad but if they give you the 72 raisins instead, well then that is
something else!
--
Joel M. Eichen, D.D.S.
Philadelphia PA
STANDARD DISCLAIMER applies:
no one has seen the tooth or
teeth in question so take
this advice within its proper
context ~ this is the internet!
Another important point is the 72 virgins ............ now various
other religious groups up the number or decrease the number, depending
on supply and demand I guess .......
Of course this says nothing at all to the Gay and Lesbian coalition,
the religious right, etc.
Veddy veddy confusing!
>On Thu, 07 Aug 2003 11:58:07 GMT, "cindys" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Joel M. Eichen D.D.S." <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> "Are told" is always subject to the teller and the tellee.
>>
>> As for central religious dogma, yup Cindy is correct ...... although
>> Maimonides believed there was no afterlife.
>>
>> The operative word of course is "believe." After all, who knows ......
>>
>> Ooooops! This is certain to speark another 250 posts!
>>
>> Joel
>-----------------
>Joel: This was a troll post who forged Alan Browne's name.
>Best regards,
>---Cindy S.
>
--
Joel M. Eichen, D.D.S.
Philadelphia PA
STANDARD DISCLAIMER applies:
no one has seen the tooth or
teeth in question so take
this advice within its proper
context ~ this is the internet!
"Susan Cohen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Al Browne" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Christians are taught to turn the other cheek when one is slapped in
> > the face. We are taught that we will be rewarded in heaven if we are
> > sorry for our sins. God will always love us unconditionally.
> >
> > Jews are told that when they die that is the end, period!
>
> Oh, we are?
> >
> > Muslims are taught that they need to kill Christians and Jews
> > (infidels) to be rewarded in paradise with 72 sexy virgins.
> >
> > Christianity wins...hands down!
>
> Only if you're ignorant.
>
> Susan
>
>
Susan, may be instead of saying "Only if you're ignorant" you could
enlighten him. :)
Joel, Islam does not have a one central power like the Vatican that decides
what sort of intrepretation is/isn't correct. Some ppl intrepret things the
wrong way to justify their own political ends, and the blame is ofcourse
laid down on all Muslims. We do have the responsibility of challenging
misinformatino w/i our own community, but believe it or not, it does not
take a whole lot to convince someone that things like suicidie boming are
the way to go. Remember, when suicide bombings first began in Palestine
these ppl had been under occupation (and still are) for almost 50 years,
their lives are ruined, they have no way to fight back a nuclear power, so
they turn to this. I'm against suicide bomings of civillians and suicide in
general based on principal, but I don't see how suicide bomings of millitary
infrastructure is wrong.
"Joel M. Eichen D.D.S." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 9 Aug 2003 19:29:06 -0700, [email protected] (1MAN4ALL) wrote:
>
> >Joel M. Eichen D.D.S. <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> >> On 7 Aug 2003 14:08:13 -0700, [email protected] (1MAN4ALL) wrote:
> >>
> >> >Anyway, what are 72 women over
> >> >period of an eternity!
> >>
> >> REPLY:
> >>
> >> Not bad but if they give you the 72 raisins instead, well then that is
> >> something else!
> >
> >You need to read my earlier response.
>
> REPLY:
>
> Its almost impossible to find because of so many responses to raisins!
>
> >Furthermore, according to Ibn
> >Abbas, the earliest theologian of Islam,
>
> .....sorry, I am ignorant here ........
>
> I am sure the early theologians were quite astute if Islamic theology
> is anything like Islamic culture. We have Islam to thank for medicine,
> mathematics, literature, etc.
>
> So where did you guys go wrong telling young people to blow themselves
> up?
>
> Where is that "theology?"
>
>
>
> >there is no comparison
> >between things found on this earth with those that would be in Heaven.
>
> We got raisins on earth ...... plenty!
>
> >Quran also says the same thing, "[32.17] So no soul knows what is
> >hidden for them of that which will refresh the eyes; a reward for what
> >they did." There is also a saying of Prophet Muhammad that, "God has
> >stated that I have created things for the pious [in Paradise] that no
> >man has seen or heard or has ever thought about." The idea is that
> >Paradise will be a place of eternal bliss where people, who lived all
> >their lives practicing self-restraint and doing good, will find all
> >they ever wished for.
>
> So you are against suicide bombers I take it ........
>
> --
> Joel M. Eichen, D.D.S.
> Philadelphia PA
>
> STANDARD DISCLAIMER applies:
> no one has seen the tooth or
> teeth in question so take
> this advice within its proper
> context ~ this is the internet!
It's assholes like you that make me want to root for the aye-rabs.
"Al Browne" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Christians are taught to turn the other cheek when one is slapped in
> the face. We are taught that we will be rewarded in heaven if we are
> sorry for our sins. God will always love us unconditionally.
>
> Jews are told that when they die that is the end, period!
>
> Muslims are taught that they need to kill Christians and Jews
> (infidels) to be rewarded in paradise with 72 sexy virgins.
>
> Christianity wins...hands down!
TonyaK911 <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "William Graham" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<gXmYa.85241$uu5.11321@sccrnsc04>...
> > Mike <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > > "Susan Cohen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...
> > > >
> > > > "Al Browne" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > > Christians are taught to turn the other cheek when one is slapped
in
> > > > > the face. We are taught that we will be rewarded in heaven if we
are
> > > > > sorry for our sins. God will always love us unconditionally.
> > > > >
> > > > > Jews are told that when they die that is the end, period!
> > > >
> > > > Oh, we are?
> > > > >
> > > > > Muslims are taught that they need to kill Christians and Jews
> > > > > (infidels) to be rewarded in paradise with 72 sexy virgins.
> > > > >
> > > > > Christianity wins...hands down!
> > > >
> > > > Only if you're ignorant.
> > > >
> > > > Susan
> > > >
> > > >
> > > Susan, may be instead of saying "Only if you're ignorant" you could
> > > enlighten him. :)
> > >
> > >
> > People who believe what they are, "taught", instead of believing what
their
> > own logic dictates, cannot become, "enlightened".
>
> Sir, as someone whose specialty has been logic, let me state that,
> logically speaking, there is NO FORMAL LOGICAL PROOF of non-existence
> of G-d. Better philosophers than yourself tried and failed to find
> such proof.
Well try this: If you were to tell me that you have a new ford in your
garage, I would have no reason to doubt it. Ford sells millions of vehicles
every year, at a very reasonable price, and there is no reason for you to
lie, so I would believe it hands down. But if you were to tell me that you
keep a pet elephant in your garage, I would not believe it. I would have no
absolute proof that you were lying, but there are probably exactly zero
elephants in garages here in the US, and elephants require a lot more space
than that, and so the probability that you were being truthful would be so
small that no reasonable person would believe you for a New York minute.
Now, lets get to the Christian myth. This is such a convoluted, ridiculous
bunch of impossible claptrap, that no reasonable person could possible
believe it. What with pillars of salt, parting ocean waters and the rest of
the BS, the probability of it being true is so remote, that it would take an
absolute babbling imbecile to entertain it for a second. So, until you come
up with a story that is a little better than this, you are just going to
have to accept the fact that the only way you can get anyone to believe it
is to take them at a very young age, and destroy any semblance of logic in
them by continuous brainwashing at regular intervals throughout their lives,
and even then, the chances are pretty good they will wise up on or about the
time they rfind out that there is no Santa Clause, and all your efforts will
be wasted anyway. Absolute proof? - No, no one can proove that something
ISN'T there. But from a practicle matter, it is obvious to any thinking
person that if you can't see it, smell it, touch it, hear it, or taste it,
and no machine created by science can detect it either, then it very likely
is not there......That's good enough for me.
On 9 Aug 2003 19:29:06 -0700, [email protected] (1MAN4ALL) wrote:
>Joel M. Eichen D.D.S. <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>> On 7 Aug 2003 14:08:13 -0700, [email protected] (1MAN4ALL) wrote:
>>
>> >Anyway, what are 72 women over
>> >period of an eternity!
>>
>> REPLY:
>>
>> Not bad but if they give you the 72 raisins instead, well then that is
>> something else!
>
>You need to read my earlier response.
REPLY:
Its almost impossible to find because of so many responses to raisins!
>Furthermore, according to Ibn
>Abbas, the earliest theologian of Islam,
.....sorry, I am ignorant here ........
I am sure the early theologians were quite astute if Islamic theology
is anything like Islamic culture. We have Islam to thank for medicine,
mathematics, literature, etc.
So where did you guys go wrong telling young people to blow themselves
up?
Where is that "theology?"
>there is no comparison
>between things found on this earth with those that would be in Heaven.
We got raisins on earth ...... plenty!
>Quran also says the same thing, "[32.17] So no soul knows what is
>hidden for them of that which will refresh the eyes; a reward for what
>they did." There is also a saying of Prophet Muhammad that, "God has
>stated that I have created things for the pious [in Paradise] that no
>man has seen or heard or has ever thought about." The idea is that
>Paradise will be a place of eternal bliss where people, who lived all
>their lives practicing self-restraint and doing good, will find all
>they ever wished for.
So you are against suicide bombers I take it ........
--
Joel M. Eichen, D.D.S.
Philadelphia PA
STANDARD DISCLAIMER applies:
no one has seen the tooth or
teeth in question so take
this advice within its proper
context ~ this is the internet!
"Joel M. Eichen D.D.S." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Are told" is always subject to the teller and the tellee.
>
> As for central religious dogma, yup Cindy is correct ...... although
> Maimonides believed there was no afterlife.
>
> The operative word of course is "believe." After all, who knows ......
>
> Ooooops! This is certain to speark another 250 posts!
>
> Joel
-----------------
Joel: This was a troll post who forged Alan Browne's name.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
Thanks, I mean twelve BOXES of raisins .....
maybe ........ But twelve raisins???????
Do you get a T-shirt at least?
"I went to the Jersey Shore and all I GOT
were the twelve raisins ...................."
On Fri, 08 Aug 2003 18:37:38 GMT, "Linda"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>LOL Too funny Joel!
>Linda.
>
>Joel M. Eichen D.D.S. <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> There are going to be lots of
>> disappointed terrorists in heaven I just know!
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 07 Aug 2003 21:15:27 GMT, "Ernie Jurick" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"Joel M. Eichen D.D.S." <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> >news:[email protected]...
>> >
>> >> What? You only get 72 raisins for being a terorrism guy?
>> >
>> >Yes on the raisins, although the specific number is uncertain. Reading
>> >"virgins" for "raisins" is a Qu'ranic whoops!, similar to the reading of
>> >virgin for "young woman" in the Bible.
>> >-- Ernie
>> >
>>
>> --
>> Joel M. Eichen, D.D.S.
>> Philadelphia PA
>>
>> STANDARD DISCLAIMER applies:
>> no one has seen the tooth or
>> teeth in question so take
>> this advice within its proper
>> context ~ this is the internet!
>
--
Joel M. Eichen, D.D.S.
Philadelphia PA
STANDARD DISCLAIMER applies:
no one has seen the tooth or
teeth in question so take
this advice within its proper
context ~ this is the internet!
On Thu, 07 Aug 2003 16:17:33 GMT, "FA" <[email protected]> wrote:
>You're obviously an ignorant person. I'm a practicing Muslim and I can
>assure you the whole virgin thing has been blown out of proportion to demean
>us.
Okay here's your chance to explain it. And why pray tell was it made
known about the 72 virgins? Is it cut out of whole cloth? Is it
fabricated?
> If you're happy with your religion, good for you, just don't go around
>demeaning others and villifying others when all evil seems to originate in
>your own backyard.
So its not so? You do not get the 72 virgins for terrorism? Where did
the BIG rumor originate?
>
>> Christians are taught to turn the other cheek when one is slapped in
>> the face. We are taught that we will be rewarded in heaven if we are
>> sorry for our sins. God will always love us unconditionally.
>
>It wasn't Muslims who invaded Iraq with all soldiers carrying Bibles with
>the words "operation iraqi freedom" written on it. It was a war lead by a
>right wing born-again Christian who's view of the world is based on the
>Bible and who had no problem with missionaries pouring into Iraq and
>Afghanistan right after the bombs had fallen. Talk about spreading beliefs
>with the might of missiles, bombs and other weapons of mass destruction.
>
>I'm happy with my religion, and I admire those who have found peace with
>theirs. But don't expect oppressed people to simply sit back. People do
>crazy things when they're desperate, but the proper response is not to
>villify all similar to the deseparate ones, but to address the root causes.
>Everyone knows the root cause, but no one wants to address it because its
>much easier to kill people then face the loss of oil, money, power,
>influence and superiority. Face it!
>
>"Al Browne" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Christians are taught to turn the other cheek when one is slapped in
>> the face. We are taught that we will be rewarded in heaven if we are
>> sorry for our sins. God will always love us unconditionally.
>>
>> Jews are told that when they die that is the end, period!
>>
>> Muslims are taught that they need to kill Christians and Jews
>> (infidels) to be rewarded in paradise with 72 sexy virgins.
>>
>> Christianity wins...hands down!
>
--
Joel M. Eichen, D.D.S.
Philadelphia PA
STANDARD DISCLAIMER applies:
no one has seen the tooth or
teeth in question so take
this advice within its proper
context ~ this is the internet!
Al Browne <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Christians are taught to turn the other cheek when one is slapped in
> the face. We are taught that we will be rewarded in heaven if we are
> sorry for our sins. God will always love us unconditionally.
>
> Jews are told that when they die that is the end, period!
>
> Muslims are taught that they need to kill Christians and Jews
> (infidels) to be rewarded in paradise with 72 sexy virgins.
>
> Christianity wins...hands down!
And Atheists are not, "taught" to believe anything but whatever logic
dictates.....Atheism wins hands down!
FA wrote:
>>We agree, but first, stop letting and encouraging young people to
>>destroy themselves ......... it ain't worth it!
>
>
> Agreed, but lets also address the root causes. Its hard to argue with
> someone who's been brainwashed when they have hundreds of reasons not to
> listen to you. There is a problem of extremism within Islam, but calling us
> all extremists and treating us all the same way might turn into a
> self-fulfilling prophecy. It is time for extremists on both sides to be
> reigned in. The only difference is, on one side they're elected and on the
> other side they're not.
Not a lot of elected officials on the US side categorizing all Muslims
as "extremists." I can think of two in Congress, neither particularly
well known or credible. Mr. Bush, OTOH, has gone out of his way (to the
point of pissing off the religious conservatives ) to distingush between
Islam-religion-of-peace and hijackers-of-Islam.
So, what are you talking about when you say "elected officials?"
>
>
Mike
Really, the bottom line is that people who believe anything strongly
enough are often willing to die for it. This gets dangerous when their
belief system necessitates the death of other people. You have Islamic
kids strapping themselves with C4 and blow up a Sbarro's. You have
Christians murdering abortion doctors. You have mid-century Germans
exterminating Jews, the mentally handicapped, gypsies, and homosexuals.
You have the Crusades. You have soccer fans. There are countless
examples throughout history of a strong conviction + mob mentality
equaling death and destruction. An enormous portion of Europe's bloodiest
conflicts over the last 2000 years have been the direct result of
religious politics within the various sects and branches of the Christian
faith. The Inquisition. Witch hunts.
This has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with the
biological and psychological composition of the human being. Faith is
what we call it when we want to believe something but have been given no
concrete reason to. Religion is what happens when people of a like-minded
faith get organized. War is what happens when hard-headed religious
extremists can't accept that they may be wrong. So all of this
self-righteous, chest-pounding, finger-pointing can end. As tragic as it
was, the few thousand deaths at the World Trade Center don't hold a candle
to the number of people executed, murdered, slain, and tortured under the
watchful of eye of Christianity during its history, all in the name of
love of a peaceful God.
"Al Browne" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Jews are told that when they die that is the end, period!
This is a lie, and you are a troll.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
Joel M. Eichen D.D.S. wrote:
> Another important point is the 72 virgins
Don't you mean raisins/sultanas?
Tilly
[email protected]
On Thu, 07 Aug 2003 06:58:05 -0400, Joel M. Eichen D.D.S.
<[email protected]> wrote:
>I heard it was twelve. What caused the increase to 72?
New incentive program.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Professional Shop Rat: 14,083 days in a GM plant.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"Tilly" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Joel M. Eichen D.D.S. wrote:
> > Another important point is the 72 virgins
>
>
> Don't you mean raisins/sultanas?
LOL! Shhhhhhhh! If that gets out Islamic fundamentalism is doomed....
-- Ernie
On 6 Aug 2003 17:07:17 -0700, [email protected] (Al Browne)
Crawled out of the shop and said. . .:
>Christians are taught to turn the other cheek when one is slapped in
>the face.
Cross post plonked
Traves
"FA" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> > Negotiate! Come to the table like human beings. Resist terrorists in
> > your own neighborhoods. If it happened once in America, every neighbor
> > would turn in the guilty party, regardless of their creed, religion,
> > or race!
> Negotiate!! Why didn't Bush negotiate with Saddam or with Al-Qaeda? People
> don't negnotiate with those they think are evil-this goes for both sides.
>
>
> > Pizza Hut in Jerusalem is not a military target now is it?
> No it's not, and its wrong. But perhaps this civillians should consider
the
> fact that they are on occupied land. The nation of Israel was created by
> illegal means by usurping what was the rightful propery of Palestinians.
Get your facts straight !
1) They are not on occupied land, and never were. Only Arabs and Jew Haters
are dumb or hateful enough to buy into this myth.
2) Israel is not illegal, it was duly created legally just as Jordan was,
Kuwait was, The UAE was, Lybia was, Saudi Arab was, Bosnia was, and
multiples of other Countries were!
3) Myth 3... the Israelis usurped the rightful property of the Palestinians.
Pure bullshit.
Before you open your ignorant clap trap why don't you read a little truthful
historical fact, instead of vomiting out the usual Jew Haters propanganda.
LARRY R.
>
"jack mehoff" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Al Browne" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Christians are taught to turn the other cheek when one is slapped in
> > the face. We are taught that we will be rewarded in heaven if we are
> > sorry for our sins. God will always love us unconditionally.
> >
> > Jews are told that when they die that is the end, period!
> >
> > Muslims are taught that they need to kill Christians and Jews
> > (infidels) to be rewarded in paradise with 72 sexy virgins.
> >
> > Christianity wins...hands down!
>
>
> Congratulations you get the "Moron of the week" title.
>
> NB. You can win this title twice in a row (there is no limit)
>
Trolling again, huh Jack?
On Fri, 08 Aug 2003 14:14:50 GMT, "Made In America" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"jack mehoff" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "Al Browne" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> > Christians are taught to turn the other cheek
REPLY:
.... should see what goes on in those religious nudist colonies .....
> when one is slapped in
>> > the face.
REPLY:
.... oh .... sorry.
>We are taught that we will be rewarded in heaven if we are
>> > sorry for our sins.
Raisins or what?????
> God will always love us unconditionally.
>> >
>> > Jews are told that when they die that is the end, period!
Sour grapes I mean sour raisins ........
>> >
>> > Muslims are taught that they need to kill Christians and Jews
>> > (infidels) to be rewarded in paradise with 72 sexy virgins.
Virgins, raisins, what's the difference ........
>> >
>> > Christianity wins...hands down!
>>
>>
>> Congratulations you get the "Moron of the week" title.
>>
>> NB. You can win this title twice in a row (there is no limit)
>>
>
>Trolling again, huh Jack?
>
--
Joel M. Eichen, D.D.S.
Philadelphia PA
STANDARD DISCLAIMER applies:
no one has seen the tooth or
teeth in question so take
this advice within its proper
context ~ this is the internet!
Al Browne wrote:
> Christians are taught to turn the other cheek when one is slapped in
> the face. We are taught that we will be rewarded in heaven if we are
> sorry for our sins. God will always love us unconditionally.
>
> Jews are told that when they die that is the end, period!
>
> Muslims are taught that they need to kill Christians and Jews
> (infidels) to be rewarded in paradise with 72 sexy virgins.
>
> Christianity wins...hands down!
Selective observations will prove anything... and nothing!
Judaism, Christianity and Islam constitute the Hebrew stream of religion,
which has reinvented itself a probably indeterminate number of times. It
distinguishes itself by positing the existence of a single deiform,
although its own canonical literature is explicit in asserting the
existence of multiple deiforms. Indeed, the evidence is compelling that
the deiform claiming said status usurped that of another, earlier deiform,
which is differentiated by indirect reference in the last of these three
religions.
All three persist in claiming complete sovereignty over the entire known
cosmos for a deiform that cannot be described because it cannot be
objectively identified in any commonly agreed upon manner. All three exist
primarily for political reasons, having had their inception therein. All
three are militant, though all three claim not to be. As such, all three
are rather well crafted tools for the perpetration of tyranny of one sort
or another. On balance, all three seem to have had a rather negative effect
on the development of mankind as a civilized species.
None of these three have anything to do with photography, despite the
insistence of posts to the contrary.
Yes, this is the UseNet, where anything and everything goes anywhere at any
time. Certain issues, however, possess an intrinsic requirement for the
application of reason (reasonableness, actually...). This is one of those.
I am quite willing to entertain an in depth discussion of these matters,
but not in this forum. It is highly unlikely that any such forum exists on
the UseNet, I think.
Bill Tallman
Umm..... I'd just like to know what is the best finish for red oak? Spray
poly, varnish, lacquer, or shellac. Ooops, I thought that this was
rec.woodworking not rec.evangelist.religion.
Sorry.
"Susan Cohen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "FA" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > You're obviously an ignorant person. I'm a practicing Muslim and I can
> > assure you the whole virgin thing has been blown out of proportion to
> demean
> > us. If you're happy with your religion, good for you, just don't go
> around
> > demeaning others and villifying others when all evil seems to originate
in
> > your own backyard.
> >
> > > Christians are taught to turn the other cheek when one is slapped in
> > > the face. We are taught that we will be rewarded in heaven if we are
> > > sorry for our sins. God will always love us unconditionally.
> >
> > It wasn't Muslims who invaded Iraq with all soldiers carrying Bibles
with
> > the words "operation iraqi freedom" written on it.
>
> Nor was it America, because not all soldiers in America even carry *any*
> Bible, much less the ones you describe.
>
> It was a war lead by a
> > right wing born-again Christian who's view of the world is based on the
> > Bible and who had no problem with missionaries pouring into Iraq and
> > Afghanistan right after the bombs had fallen. Talk about spreading
beliefs
> > with the might of missiles, bombs and other weapons of mass destruction.
>
> I won't argue that Bush doesn't want everyone to follow his religion; he
> does.
> But the Iraq invasion was carried out for more base reasons, as well as
the
> fact that Saddam *was* in violation of the treaty terms for over 12 years.
>
> Susan
>
>
It matters not whether the story be true! Change the names all you want, ,
,the logic is not affected and retains validity. Even as an analogy it
remains valid. If the model MUST have been built by someone, the real thing
needs even more a builder.
--
SwampBug
---------------------
"Ernie Jurick" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "SwampBug" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > Perhaps, Ernie, but the logic is still valid. . .<s>
>
> No, it isn't. The power of the story rests on the misuse of Isaac Newton's
> name and reputation to convey an idea he never would have supported. If
you
> change the name to Joe Smith it's a pretty story but it carries no weight.
> -- Ernie
>
>
>
You're obviously an ignorant person. I'm a practicing Muslim and I can
assure you the whole virgin thing has been blown out of proportion to demean
us. If you're happy with your religion, good for you, just don't go around
demeaning others and villifying others when all evil seems to originate in
your own backyard.
> Christians are taught to turn the other cheek when one is slapped in
> the face. We are taught that we will be rewarded in heaven if we are
> sorry for our sins. God will always love us unconditionally.
It wasn't Muslims who invaded Iraq with all soldiers carrying Bibles with
the words "operation iraqi freedom" written on it. It was a war lead by a
right wing born-again Christian who's view of the world is based on the
Bible and who had no problem with missionaries pouring into Iraq and
Afghanistan right after the bombs had fallen. Talk about spreading beliefs
with the might of missiles, bombs and other weapons of mass destruction.
I'm happy with my religion, and I admire those who have found peace with
theirs. But don't expect oppressed people to simply sit back. People do
crazy things when they're desperate, but the proper response is not to
villify all similar to the deseparate ones, but to address the root causes.
Everyone knows the root cause, but no one wants to address it because its
much easier to kill people then face the loss of oil, money, power,
influence and superiority. Face it!
"Al Browne" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Christians are taught to turn the other cheek when one is slapped in
> the face. We are taught that we will be rewarded in heaven if we are
> sorry for our sins. God will always love us unconditionally.
>
> Jews are told that when they die that is the end, period!
>
> Muslims are taught that they need to kill Christians and Jews
> (infidels) to be rewarded in paradise with 72 sexy virgins.
>
> Christianity wins...hands down!
"William Graham" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:c5HYa.93253$uu5.13920@sccrnsc04...
>
> Joel M. Eichen D.D.S. <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Another important point is the 72 virgins ............ now various
> > other religious groups up the number or decrease the number, depending
> > on supply and demand I guess .......
>
> Yeah.....And they better start taking advantage of the offer.....Once all
> those American soldiers get settled down in the Near East, the virgin
count
> will start to plummet.........
>
>
Yeah, one of the benefits the French got out of both world wars was that
after the Yanks arrived their women could sleep with someone that didn't
call them "Fraulein". Those raghers will now have the chance to yell some
name other than "Mohammed" when the fireworks go off... :)
Tom