x-no-archive:yes
I am needing extra garage space. I have been thinking of building a
pole barn type garage across form my attached garage. The problem is
money right now. I can only afford a gravel floor. I would like to
complete this project myself with maybe some help lifting and things
from my brother. My thinking is 24 feet wide by 32 feet long. (I can
get pre made trusses at 24 feet.)
Is it ok to have a gravel floor? Right now, the lot where the building
would go is about 10 inches different from the highest point to the
lowest point.
Also, I read somewhere of a construction method I had never heard of
before. You would gig holes just like for poles in a pole barn but you
would put posts in there that only stuck out a foot or two. You would
put purlins similar to what you put on the top of pole barn posts
around these lower posts. Then, conventional stick framing similar to a
house was used on top of this. I dont know of anyone around here that
builds that way but it seemed interesting and easier for a man to do
himself because htere were no tall poles to deal with and fiddle with
getting perfectly square and the walls could be built in sections.
I live out in farm country and codes I dont believe will be an issue.
stryped,
This is just my opinion and since it is free take it for what its worth
.....
From your comments regarding the entire construction process, I think that
you should not attempt to build this structure by yourself. Before you begin
you need to educate yourself in basic construction at a level much greater
than this news group can provide. Even then the book knowledge is not the
same as being able to apply it in a practical sense. Reading a chapter on
floating the finish of the concrete is very different from doing it. But the
book knowledge will allow you to converse with contractors.
While you may not have to deal with a building inspector or comply with
"city" codes in your location you should not take that as the OK to just do
it how ever you want to. In general building codes and inspections are not
necessarily bad, they make sure the structure is safe and built to a minimum
specification. The questions you have asked indicate that you do not have
any experience in basic structural construction, if there is a construction
site in in your area, particularly if it is a new home being built you
should check it out and really look at the way it is being put together from
the ground up. While I am not familiar with the type of foundations that
are typically used in your area, if you can observe the construction steps
of a concrete slab foundation you will see the footer and probably beams
being dug into the soil, the beams will most likely have static tension
cables in addition to the rebar. I am not saying that tension cables are
necessary but you will need to do the soil / site preparation appropriate
for your area, a compacted sand base will probably need to be installed even
if excavation of beams is not required. A vapor barrier under the concrete
would be essential. Regardless of the exact construction techniques that
are appropriate for your soil conditions in my opinion rebar is cheap when
you are building a foundation, use extra, it will be money well spent.
Some utilities installed before the foundation is poured will be appreciated
for years down the road, well placed floor plugs can be very handy, even if
you do not plan to install electricity in the floor initially if you install
conduit you can pull wire later.
Some running water inside the shop would also be a great feature. Then
there is the general electrical wiring and breaker box, do you know how to
install the electrical service ? You will need to calculate loads and make
sure the appropriate sized wiring is correctly installed.
Concrete is not especially hard to work with if you know what you are doing,
if you don't you will wind up with one big concrete mess. Breaking up
concrete and hauling it off is not any fun under any circumstances. If you
do not know how to work with a normal mix product I do not think you will
stand any chance of success with some of high strength specialty mixes that
have been mentioned in this thread.
Electrical wiring is not especially hard either but there is a right way to
do it, and it needs to be done correctly.
If you are actually going to build a shop you should at least be pleased
with it when it is finished. Just from the posts you have made in this
thread I think you need the help of professionals.
Just my 2 cents worth, hopefully you will think about some of the concerns I
have pitched out there.
Charlie
I would agree, the gravel floor will be a major PIA to deal with. No
way to clean up sawdust, and having sawdust on top of the gravel would
mean taking that entire layer of both off prior to concrete. The
sawdust would decompose and start to leave voids where the concreate
can break out.
Now if purlins are the same as using pier blocks to create a raised
joist floor so you can put electrical and dust collection in the floor,
then you could do that yourself over time. Maybe making a 20x20 pad to
start with and then adding on from there.
In my local area a 30x30 x 2" concrete pad is about $2250 + sales tax.
Alan
> If you are not too off the beaten path often times you can make an
> arrangement with the local concrete company to let them dump their surplus
> at your place. Obviously this assumes that you and a helper will be
> present
> and available during their business hours. They want to dump the surplus,
> wash out the hopper and be on their way.
>
I'm curious, what is the going rate for surplus?
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x-no-archive:yes
I have never heard of a slab that was only 2 inches thick?
The other problem is I cant use a wood floor as I also do some welding
and cutting of metal and need a space to park one car.
arw01 wrote:
> I would agree, the gravel floor will be a major PIA to deal with. No
> way to clean up sawdust, and having sawdust on top of the gravel would
> mean taking that entire layer of both off prior to concrete. The
> sawdust would decompose and start to leave voids where the concreate
> can break out.
>
> Now if purlins are the same as using pier blocks to create a raised
> joist floor so you can put electrical and dust collection in the floor,
> then you could do that yourself over time. Maybe making a 20x20 pad to
> start with and then adding on from there.
>
> In my local area a 30x30 x 2" concrete pad is about $2250 + sales tax.
>
> Alan
x-no-archive:yes
I know it has to be square, I was just saying that it might be easier
sqaring a series of short posts vs tall posts for one person.
I do some welding and cutting too and have two small welders and
cutting torch. SO a wood floor is out.
I also need room to park a car.
I thought about a concrete slap and putting framing directly on top of
it. But the guy quoting the concrete said I would have to have a footer
which ads drastically to the cost. Why would I need a footer?
Is it possible to pour a concrete slab yourself? Is it hard to do?
x-no-archive:yes
Southern, Kentucky
Dukes909 wrote:
> "stryped" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > x-no-archive:yes
> >
> > I also need room to park a car.
> >
> > I thought about a concrete slap and putting framing directly on top of
> > it. But the guy quoting the concrete said I would have to have a footer
> > which ads drastically to the cost. Why would I need a footer?
> >
> > Is it possible to pour a concrete slab yourself? Is it hard to do?
>
> I guess it's possible. For something that large you better know what you're
> doing when the truck(s) gets there. What part of the country are you in?
>
> Cheers!
> Duke
Doug Schultz wrote:
> Ask your concrete company if they do fiberglass reinforced concrete.
> that is about as strong as I have ever seen. We use it up here in Vancouver
> Canada for radiant floor heat.
> We pour it only 1.5" thick on top of the plywood.
> I think if you can get the gravel level and compacted you could do a pretty
> thin floor with that kind of concrete
> still wouldnt want to drive heavy machinery on it though.
We just had a pole-barn floor poured with it. It's unbelievably
strong. The drill bits that come with tap-con screws couldn't handle
it.
JP
x-no-archive:yes
Man that is nice!. That is ecaxtly what I want. The siding even matches
my house. If you dont mind me asking, how much did that set you back
and how long did it take you to build? Is there sotrage in the roof
area? Did you have to have a footer?
Bubba Wood wrote:
> On 8 Mar 2006 05:39:10 -0800, "stryped" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >x-no-archive:yes
> >
> >I am needing extra garage space. I have been thinking of building a
> >pole barn type garage across form my attached garage. The problem is
> >money right now. I can only afford a gravel floor. I would like to
> >complete this project myself with maybe some help lifting and things
> >from my brother. My thinking is 24 feet wide by 32 feet long. (I can
> >get pre made trusses at 24 feet.)
> >
> >Is it ok to have a gravel floor? Right now, the lot where the building
> >would go is about 10 inches different from the highest point to the
> >lowest point.
> >
> >Also, I read somewhere of a construction method I had never heard of
> >before. You would gig holes just like for poles in a pole barn but you
> >would put posts in there that only stuck out a foot or two. You would
> >put purlins similar to what you put on the top of pole barn posts
> >around these lower posts. Then, conventional stick framing similar to a
> >house was used on top of this. I dont know of anyone around here that
> >builds that way but it seemed interesting and easier for a man to do
> >himself because htere were no tall poles to deal with and fiddle with
> >getting perfectly square and the walls could be built in sections.
> >
> >I live out in farm country and codes I dont believe will be an issue.
>
> Gravel?? How do you set shop tools on a gravel floor?
>
> I just finished a 24x32 shop/garage. The slab floor was $4000. It is
> fiberglass renforced, has re-bar per code and plastic under liner.
> That also included a 6 foot x 24 foot apron in front of the doors. The
> roof is truss built and we hoisted them with a stick boom fork lift.
> Also used that to raise the walls. All built by an old man (me) and
> my 25 year old son.
>
> You can see the results at http://users.adelphia.net/~larrydrum/
> There are a few build process photos up there right now.
>
> Bubba
stryped wrote:
> x-no-archive:yes
>
> I know it has to be square, I was just saying that it might be easier
> sqaring a series of short posts vs tall posts for one person.
>
> I do some welding and cutting too and have two small welders and
> cutting torch. SO a wood floor is out.
>
> I also need room to park a car.
>
> I thought about a concrete slap and putting framing directly on top of
> it. But the guy quoting the concrete said I would have to have a footer
> which adds drastically to the cost. Why would I need a footer?
You need a footer so the edge of the slab under the walls does not
crack away form the slab due to the weight of the wall. IIf you
have a footer you can float the floor inside of it, or support the
floor on a ledge on the inside of the footer, though that is more
typical of a industrial construction.
There are construction techniques that combine the two, basicly
a trench is dug for the footer, the outside is boxed in with forms
and the footer and slab are poured altogether then a course or
two of block is laid to raise the wood high enough above grade.
That may or may not fly in your area, depending on the depth
of the frost line.
>
> Is it possible to pour a concrete slab yourself? Is it hard to do?
There is a material called soil cement. This is made by tilling
dry cement into the soil, then wetting and compacting it. This
may or may not be viable for you depending on the composition
of the soil. I think it works best for soil with a high clay content,
OK for high sand content, and not very well at all for high humus
content.
Popular science did an article on soil cement, maybe 35
years ago. It is the kind of thing you might find in back
issues of Mother Jones, though I do not recall specifically
seeing it there. There were one or more US government
studies done (probably by the USDA) that might provide
guidelines.
This sounds like the sort of thing you're looking for, low
tech, low maintenance, costly in sweat but cheap in money.
I have NO personal experience with soil cement so if you try
it, let me know how it works out. ;-)
The key to doing a slab yourself is to either have good technique
and a sufficient number of competent helpers, or good technique
and only do a small section at a time. There is no substitute
for good technique. If the cement sets before it is level and
smooth, you're screwed. I'd start with a section not larger than
4 foot by 4 foot, so I could bust it up if I botched it, and go
from there. The rebar will extend from one section to the
next so you done;t have to worry (excesively) about differential
setttling.
Working with cement is not too difficult but you need to research
it well and understand the parameters to avoid disaster.
Very fun stuff. Not as much fun as wood, but done right,
it lasts longer.
--
FF
Don Dando wrote:
> I would be concerned about moisture reeking up through the gravel and
> rusting the tools and surrounding your project wood with a higher moisture
> content than you may want.
>
If the floor is well above the water table then cement woudl be worse.
Condensation can sink through the gravel but will sit on the surface of
the cement.
If the water table is high enough for moisture to creep up through the
floor it is a bad location for a building and the floor should be built
above grade, regardless of the type.
Dust will be a PIA with a gravel floor. Once the sawdust as thick
enough you could seep most of it off without losing much gravel,
but by no means all. Heck, once the sawdust was thick enough
you could saturate it with linseed oil, compact it, and have a
linoleum floor. Might take a few years to cure without baking
it though.
--
FF
[email protected] wrote:
> The key to doing a slab yourself is to either have good technique
> and a sufficient number of competent helpers, or good technique
> and only do a small section at a time. There is no substitute
> for good technique. If the cement sets before it is level and
> smooth, you're screwed. I'd start with a section not larger than
> 4 foot by 4 foot, so I could bust it up if I botched it, and go
> from there. The rebar will extend from one section to the
> next so you done;t have to worry (excesively) about differential
> setttling.
If he uses fiber reinforced concrete he doesn't need to use rebar, but
he'll want to pour the whole slab at once.
> Working with cement is not too difficult but you need to research
> it well and understand the parameters to avoid disaster.
>
> Very fun stuff. Not as much fun as wood, but done right,
> it lasts longer.
Fun? It's heavy, dirty, too wet or too dry and simply won't level like
it should. Plus, it's heavy, dirty, too wet or too dry and simply
won't level like it should.
JP
todd wrote:
> If you're a) going to buy trusses and b) want storage above, I would
> consider an attic truss rather than the "W" truss that Bubba used. I'm
> planning a garage rebuild this year. Unfortunately, I'm in a suburban area
> with a few more regulations than you have. Pre-built trusses are almost
> forbidden here.
He could go with a scissor truss and have more headroom. Attics tend
to accumulate stuff that's not touched until you die.
JP
Lee Michaels wrote:
> "Bubba Wood" <l@rr60ru3@n0$pam.@de1p4!a.com> wrote
> >
> > I just finished a 24x32 shop/garage. The slab floor was $4000. It is
> > fiberglass renforced, has re-bar per code and plastic under liner.
> > That also included a 6 foot x 24 foot apron in front of the doors. The
> > roof is truss built and we hoisted them with a stick boom fork lift.
> > Also used that to raise the walls. All built by an old man (me) and
> > my 25 year old son.
> >
> > You can see the results at http://users.adelphia.net/~larrydrum/
> > There are a few build process photos up there right now.
> >
>
> Looks nice. Good job Bubba. I bet it is nice to work in a dedicated shop
> like this.
>
> Why the gaps between the drawers in your cabinets along the wall. Or lack
> of doors on the other cabinets?
>
> I do like the built in platforms for the miter saw, etc.
>
> Also, why no paint on the walls? White paint lightens the place up and
> increases visibility. And is easier on the eyes than OSB.
I like the industrial look of OSB. In DreamShop 1.0 I'll probably
paint some trompe l'oeil trim or something and then seal the whole lot
of it.
JP
x-no-archive:yes
Actually that is not a bad idea. Wonder how it would look? I guess the
only pain would be getting the floor level.
Locutus wrote:
> "stryped" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > x-no-archive:yes
> >
> > I have never heard of a slab that was only 2 inches thick?
> > The other problem is I cant use a wood floor as I also do some welding
> > and cutting of metal and need a space to park one car.
> >
>
> You could always do a half and half type thing, half of the building and
> open front or garage door with a gravel floor, and the other half a wood
> raised floor.
x-no-archive:yes
Could I do a 4x4 section at a time as you say? I mean square off and
form the entire 24x32 area then finishe the entire area by squaring
that off into 4x4 sections? Would it looke right? How do you ensure
each 4x4 area is the same height as the rest? Could I use sack crete?
I will read up on soil cement.
todd wrote:
> If you're a) going to buy trusses and b) want storage above, I would
> consider an attic truss rather than the "W" truss that Bubba used. I'm
> planning a garage rebuild this year. Unfortunately, I'm in a suburban area
> with a few more regulations than you have. Pre-built trusses are almost
> forbidden here.
>
That's interesting because it seems to be more common for building
codes to require pre-built trusses.
--
FF
stryped wrote:
> x-no-archive:yes
>
> Could I do a 4x4 section at a time as you say? I mean square off and
> form the entire 24x32 area then finishe the entire area by squaring
> that off into 4x4 sections? Would it looke right? How do you ensure
> each 4x4 area is the same height as the rest? Could I use sack crete?
>
> I will read up on soil cement.
I'm guessing this is in response to my comments.
The answers lie in using the right techniques to make the result
come out as you want. My parent's garage floor was poured in
two sections, I'm not sure exactly why.
When you read up on cement work you will read about very simple
tool called a 'screed'. Proper use of a screed is the key to getting
sections level.
Cement is caustic it will burn your skin, given prolonged contact.
--
FF
todd wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > todd wrote:
> >> ... Pre-built trusses are almost
> >> forbidden here.
> >>
> >
> > That's interesting because it seems to be more common for building
> > codes to require pre-built trusses.
...
> I'm sure it takes more union labor to stick-build
> a roof than to hang some trusses. ;-)
Aha!
Hit the nail on the head I daresay.
--
FF
"stryped" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> x-no-archive:yes
>
> Is it ok to have a gravel floor? Right now, the lot where the building
> would go is about 10 inches different from the highest point to the
> lowest point.
What kind of woodworking are you planning on doing in there? I can't
imagine using power tools on a gravel floor. If you're not using power
tools (neader route) do you really need a 24'x32' shop? Could you get by
with a smaller garden shed type building?
> house was used on top of this. I dont know of anyone around here that
> builds that way but it seemed interesting and easier for a man to do
> himself because htere were no tall poles to deal with and fiddle with
> getting perfectly square and the walls could be built in sections.
You'll still have to "fiddle with" getting the structure square regardless
of stick or pole construction unless you want a Homer Simpson-esque
building. I've built my own shop and pole barn - stick construction on a
slab, and a pole barn for my tractor & implements. I would say the stick
construction was easier for a 1-man job. Even with the help of your
brother, I wouldn't want to attempt hoisting 24' trusses unless one of you
has some serious know-how or heavy equipment.
I would think long & hard about what you want, save your money, then do it
right the first time. Make do with the garage - somehow - until then.
Mobile bases work wonderfully.
Cheers!
Duke
"stryped" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> x-no-archive:yes
>
> I also need room to park a car.
>
> I thought about a concrete slap and putting framing directly on top of
> it. But the guy quoting the concrete said I would have to have a footer
> which ads drastically to the cost. Why would I need a footer?
>
> Is it possible to pour a concrete slab yourself? Is it hard to do?
I guess it's possible. For something that large you better know what you're
doing when the truck(s) gets there. What part of the country are you in?
Cheers!
Duke
On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 10:22:36 -0500, "Lee Michaels"
<leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>"Bubba Wood" <l@rr60ru3@n0$pam.@de1p4!a.com> wrote
>>
>> I just finished a 24x32 shop/garage. The slab floor was $4000. It is
>> fiberglass renforced, has re-bar per code and plastic under liner.
>> That also included a 6 foot x 24 foot apron in front of the doors. The
>> roof is truss built and we hoisted them with a stick boom fork lift.
>> Also used that to raise the walls. All built by an old man (me) and
>> my 25 year old son.
>>
>> You can see the results at http://users.adelphia.net/~larrydrum/
>> There are a few build process photos up there right now.
>>
>
>Looks nice. Good job Bubba. I bet it is nice to work in a dedicated shop
>like this.
Thanks Lee, Yes it is.
>
>Why the gaps between the drawers in your cabinets along the wall. Or lack
>of doors on the other cabinets?
Early photo, NO fronts on yet. I ended up putting raied panel on all
the drawers and built out doors to match for the rest. Painted the
whole ehing brite white and added a 5/4 hardwood edge to the double
thick top. I'll post more photos later.
>
>I do like the built in platforms for the miter saw, etc.
They make it so nice. Throw a hunk of wood up there and cut. No worry
about holding up the 10 foot cut off. BTW, 12 feet on each side of
the Miter saw. 16 and 8 for the RAS
>
>Also, why no paint on the walls? White paint lightens the place up and
>increases visibility. And is easier on the eyes than OSB.
No paint... No money in the buget. I say I'll paint it later but I
doubt it now. I should of done it when I painted the outside with the
big airless sprayer but I didn't, couldn't cuz we already had the
inside half full of stuff. PLus the biggest reason is again money... I
had a choice of interior paint or that Jet Lathe... :) You can see
which one won.
>
>
On 8 Mar 2006 05:39:10 -0800, "stryped" <[email protected]> wrote:
>x-no-archive:yes
>
>I am needing extra garage space. I have been thinking of building a
>pole barn type garage across form my attached garage. The problem is
>money right now. I can only afford a gravel floor. I would like to
>complete this project myself with maybe some help lifting and things
>from my brother. My thinking is 24 feet wide by 32 feet long. (I can
>get pre made trusses at 24 feet.)
>
>Is it ok to have a gravel floor? Right now, the lot where the building
>would go is about 10 inches different from the highest point to the
>lowest point.
>
>Also, I read somewhere of a construction method I had never heard of
>before. You would gig holes just like for poles in a pole barn but you
>would put posts in there that only stuck out a foot or two. You would
>put purlins similar to what you put on the top of pole barn posts
>around these lower posts. Then, conventional stick framing similar to a
>house was used on top of this. I dont know of anyone around here that
>builds that way but it seemed interesting and easier for a man to do
>himself because htere were no tall poles to deal with and fiddle with
>getting perfectly square and the walls could be built in sections.
>
>I live out in farm country and codes I dont believe will be an issue.
Gravel?? How do you set shop tools on a gravel floor?
I just finished a 24x32 shop/garage. The slab floor was $4000. It is
fiberglass renforced, has re-bar per code and plastic under liner.
That also included a 6 foot x 24 foot apron in front of the doors. The
roof is truss built and we hoisted them with a stick boom fork lift.
Also used that to raise the walls. All built by an old man (me) and
my 25 year old son.
You can see the results at http://users.adelphia.net/~larrydrum/
There are a few build process photos up there right now.
Bubba
On 9 Mar 2006 05:45:49 -0800, "stryped" <[email protected]> wrote:
>x-no-archive:yes
>
>Man that is nice!. That is ecaxtly what I want. The siding even matches
>my house. If you dont mind me asking, how much did that set you back
>and how long did it take you to build? Is there sotrage in the roof
>area? Did you have to have a footer?
Oops... I missed the footer question. Yes there are footers, per code
or a little more. The slab is a monolithic pour. The footers are 24"
deep and 12" wide. The whole thing is also well above grade. In fact
it is built on the high point of the lot, higher than the house.
Bubba
>Bubba Wood wrote:
>> On 8 Mar 2006 05:39:10 -0800, "stryped" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >x-no-archive:yes
>> >
>> >I am needing extra garage space. I have been thinking of building a
>> >pole barn type garage across form my attached garage. The problem is
>> >money right now. I can only afford a gravel floor. I would like to
>> >complete this project myself with maybe some help lifting and things
>> >from my brother. My thinking is 24 feet wide by 32 feet long. (I can
>> >get pre made trusses at 24 feet.)
>> >
>> >Is it ok to have a gravel floor? Right now, the lot where the building
>> >would go is about 10 inches different from the highest point to the
>> >lowest point.
>> >
>> >Also, I read somewhere of a construction method I had never heard of
>> >before. You would gig holes just like for poles in a pole barn but you
>> >would put posts in there that only stuck out a foot or two. You would
>> >put purlins similar to what you put on the top of pole barn posts
>> >around these lower posts. Then, conventional stick framing similar to a
>> >house was used on top of this. I dont know of anyone around here that
>> >builds that way but it seemed interesting and easier for a man to do
>> >himself because htere were no tall poles to deal with and fiddle with
>> >getting perfectly square and the walls could be built in sections.
>> >
>> >I live out in farm country and codes I dont believe will be an issue.
>>
>> Gravel?? How do you set shop tools on a gravel floor?
>>
>> I just finished a 24x32 shop/garage. The slab floor was $4000. It is
>> fiberglass renforced, has re-bar per code and plastic under liner.
>> That also included a 6 foot x 24 foot apron in front of the doors. The
>> roof is truss built and we hoisted them with a stick boom fork lift.
>> Also used that to raise the walls. All built by an old man (me) and
>> my 25 year old son.
>>
>> You can see the results at http://users.adelphia.net/~larrydrum/
>> There are a few build process photos up there right now.
>>
>> Bubba
On 9 Mar 2006 05:45:49 -0800, "stryped" <[email protected]> wrote:
>x-no-archive:yes
>
>Man that is nice!. That is ecaxtly what I want. The siding even matches
>my house. If you dont mind me asking, how much did that set you back
>and how long did it take you to build? Is there sotrage in the roof
>area? Did you have to have a footer?
The total cost was in the 25k range. YMMV. I got caught having to
buy over priced Katrina OSB. From first shipment to second OSB went
from 9.90 to 14.90 here in Atlanta. And I needed 70 sheets. The
whole building is sheeted in OSB, inside and out and insulated. It can
be built for less $$$ it all just depends what you want.
It took 3 1/2 months of part time work to build. We started Sept 15.
My son worked on it full time for 3 weeks, I helped hime for 6 days of
that. IN that time we got the building raised, had the roofing
installed by pros, put up the osb outside, installed the windows and
doors, then he left. I did all the rest myself through the winter. We
had our final on Jan 5.
Oh the siding also matches my house, Im in a subdivision with rules
too. THe roof/attic has no storage except what you can lay across the
trusses. They are "W" trusses. I guess I could sheet a section in
the center, it is 8 feet tall there. Maybe later. :)
Bubba
>Bubba Wood wrote:
>> On 8 Mar 2006 05:39:10 -0800, "stryped" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >x-no-archive:yes
>> >
>> >I am needing extra garage space. I have been thinking of building a
>> >pole barn type garage across form my attached garage. The problem is
>> >money right now. I can only afford a gravel floor. I would like to
>> >complete this project myself with maybe some help lifting and things
>> >from my brother. My thinking is 24 feet wide by 32 feet long. (I can
>> >get pre made trusses at 24 feet.)
>> >
>> >Is it ok to have a gravel floor? Right now, the lot where the building
>> >would go is about 10 inches different from the highest point to the
>> >lowest point.
>> >
>> >Also, I read somewhere of a construction method I had never heard of
>> >before. You would gig holes just like for poles in a pole barn but you
>> >would put posts in there that only stuck out a foot or two. You would
>> >put purlins similar to what you put on the top of pole barn posts
>> >around these lower posts. Then, conventional stick framing similar to a
>> >house was used on top of this. I dont know of anyone around here that
>> >builds that way but it seemed interesting and easier for a man to do
>> >himself because htere were no tall poles to deal with and fiddle with
>> >getting perfectly square and the walls could be built in sections.
>> >
>> >I live out in farm country and codes I dont believe will be an issue.
>>
>> Gravel?? How do you set shop tools on a gravel floor?
>>
>> I just finished a 24x32 shop/garage. The slab floor was $4000. It is
>> fiberglass renforced, has re-bar per code and plastic under liner.
>> That also included a 6 foot x 24 foot apron in front of the doors. The
>> roof is truss built and we hoisted them with a stick boom fork lift.
>> Also used that to raise the walls. All built by an old man (me) and
>> my 25 year old son.
>>
>> You can see the results at http://users.adelphia.net/~larrydrum/
>> There are a few build process photos up there right now.
>>
>> Bubba
"stryped" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> x-no-archive:yes
>
> I have never heard of a slab that was only 2 inches thick?
> The other problem is I cant use a wood floor as I also do some welding
> and cutting of metal and need a space to park one car.
>
You could always do a half and half type thing, half of the building and
open front or garage door with a gravel floor, and the other half a wood
raised floor.
"stryped" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> x-no-archive:yes
>
> Actually that is not a bad idea. Wonder how it would look? I guess the
> only pain would be getting the floor level.
From the outside it could look like any other outbuilding/pole barn, just
when you go in the garage door there would be a gravel floor, with a
dividing wall with some steps up to the door of the raised floor portion
(think of an attached garage...)
"stryped" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> x-no-archive:yes
>> Is it ok to have a gravel floor? Right now, the lot where the building
> would go is about 10 inches different from the highest point to the
> lowest point.
I've often wondered if a floor of rock dust and cement, mixed dry & poured
over coarse gravel, then compacted, and moistened with a fine mist would
provide a servicable floor? It would be a sort of mortar mix over the rock.
Rock dust compacts easily and can be very smooth. Would it work?
Jim in the Bluegrass
I would be concerned about moisture reeking up through the gravel and
rusting the tools and surrounding your project wood with a higher moisture
content than you may want.
If you are not too off the beaten path often times you can make an
arrangement with the local concrete company to let them dump their surplus
at your place. Obviously this assumes that you and a helper will be present
and available during their business hours. They want to dump the surplus,
wash out the hopper and be on their way.
This is how I got footings 2 ft wide and 3 ft deep for my shop expansion at
no cost as well as several foundations for out buildings and a boat ramp 75
ft long, 8 ft wide and 8 inched thick on my pond.
My worst experience was when they showed up with 3 trucks with over 18 yards
total at one time!
Don Dando
"stryped" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> x-no-archive:yes
>
> I am needing extra garage space. I have been thinking of building a
> pole barn type garage across form my attached garage. The problem is
> money right now. I can only afford a gravel floor. I would like to
> complete this project myself with maybe some help lifting and things
> from my brother. My thinking is 24 feet wide by 32 feet long. (I can
> get pre made trusses at 24 feet.)
>
> Is it ok to have a gravel floor? Right now, the lot where the building
> would go is about 10 inches different from the highest point to the
> lowest point.
>
> Also, I read somewhere of a construction method I had never heard of
> before. You would gig holes just like for poles in a pole barn but you
> would put posts in there that only stuck out a foot or two. You would
> put purlins similar to what you put on the top of pole barn posts
> around these lower posts. Then, conventional stick framing similar to a
> house was used on top of this. I dont know of anyone around here that
> builds that way but it seemed interesting and easier for a man to do
> himself because htere were no tall poles to deal with and fiddle with
> getting perfectly square and the walls could be built in sections.
>
> I live out in farm country and codes I dont believe will be an issue.
>
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> todd wrote:
>> If you're a) going to buy trusses and b) want storage above, I would
>> consider an attic truss rather than the "W" truss that Bubba used. I'm
>> planning a garage rebuild this year. Unfortunately, I'm in a suburban
>> area
>> with a few more regulations than you have. Pre-built trusses are almost
>> forbidden here.
>>
>
> That's interesting because it seems to be more common for building
> codes to require pre-built trusses.
>
> --
>
> FF
Well, I didn't say it had to make sense. Like the fact that per code here,
the eave on my house can't extend over the 5' easement at the edge of our
property, but the outside of a fireplace can. There is a lot of teardown
activity in my town, and I don't think I've ever seen a pre-built truss.
We're outside Chicago, and I'm sure it takes more union labor to stick-build
a roof than to hang some trusses. ;-) On the plus side, I think I can wind
up with a bit more usable space in the attic with a stick-build roof.
todd
todd
"bent" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>>
>
> I'm curious, what is the going rate for surplus?
That greatly depends on the location and where it will be delivered. do you
live near him?
If you're a) going to buy trusses and b) want storage above, I would
consider an attic truss rather than the "W" truss that Bubba used. I'm
planning a garage rebuild this year. Unfortunately, I'm in a suburban area
with a few more regulations than you have. Pre-built trusses are almost
forbidden here.
todd
"stryped" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> x-no-archive:yes
>
> Man that is nice!. That is ecaxtly what I want. The siding even matches
> my house. If you dont mind me asking, how much did that set you back
> and how long did it take you to build? Is there sotrage in the roof
> area? Did you have to have a footer?
> Bubba Wood wrote:
>> On 8 Mar 2006 05:39:10 -0800, "stryped" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >x-no-archive:yes
>> >
>> >I am needing extra garage space. I have been thinking of building a
>> >pole barn type garage across form my attached garage. The problem is
>> >money right now. I can only afford a gravel floor. I would like to
>> >complete this project myself with maybe some help lifting and things
>> >from my brother. My thinking is 24 feet wide by 32 feet long. (I can
>> >get pre made trusses at 24 feet.)
>> >
>> >Is it ok to have a gravel floor? Right now, the lot where the building
>> >would go is about 10 inches different from the highest point to the
>> >lowest point.
>> >
>> >Also, I read somewhere of a construction method I had never heard of
>> >before. You would gig holes just like for poles in a pole barn but you
>> >would put posts in there that only stuck out a foot or two. You would
>> >put purlins similar to what you put on the top of pole barn posts
>> >around these lower posts. Then, conventional stick framing similar to a
>> >house was used on top of this. I dont know of anyone around here that
>> >builds that way but it seemed interesting and easier for a man to do
>> >himself because htere were no tall poles to deal with and fiddle with
>> >getting perfectly square and the walls could be built in sections.
>> >
>> >I live out in farm country and codes I dont believe will be an issue.
>>
>> Gravel?? How do you set shop tools on a gravel floor?
>>
>> I just finished a 24x32 shop/garage. The slab floor was $4000. It is
>> fiberglass renforced, has re-bar per code and plastic under liner.
>> That also included a 6 foot x 24 foot apron in front of the doors. The
>> roof is truss built and we hoisted them with a stick boom fork lift.
>> Also used that to raise the walls. All built by an old man (me) and
>> my 25 year old son.
>>
>> You can see the results at http://users.adelphia.net/~larrydrum/
>> There are a few build process photos up there right now.
>>
>> Bubba
>
"brianlanning" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>> Is it ok to have a gravel floor?
>
> no
>
> You'd be better off with joists and a plywood floor over a
> gravel crawl
> space. Or just wait and pour concrete.
>
> I think you'll want to make a space that is as livable as
> possible.
> You want it as much like your livingroom as possible, except no
> carpet.
>
>
> brian
>
Actually, I've found carpeting to work out very well in my wood
shop. I started out with just scraps between my feet and the
concrete and liked it so much the next time a used carpet came
available, I grabbed it. Lots easier on breakage and damage when
you drop things, and less of a problem when a board end has to
sit on it. I'd miss it if I didn't have it now.
You'd think it'd be a problem to clean, but it isn't; got an
old, retired Hoover that keeps it looking pretty good.
Pop
On Wed, 08 Mar 2006 16:14:44 GMT, "Pop" <[email protected]>
wrote:
<snip>
>
>Actually, I've found carpeting to work out very well in my wood
>shop. I started out with just scraps between my feet and the
>concrete and liked it so much the next time a used carpet came
>available, I grabbed it. Lots easier on breakage and damage when
>you drop things, and less of a problem when a board end has to
>sit on it. I'd miss it if I didn't have it now.
> You'd think it'd be a problem to clean, but it isn't; got an
>old, retired Hoover that keeps it looking pretty good.
>
>Pop
>
I've a basement shop in what was a recreation room. When we moved in,
it had pretty tired, low pile glued down carpeting, along with a big
paint stain in the middle. I decided to leave it for the time being
and figured I'd rip it out if it got to be a pain, and then replace it
when (if) we ever moved and turn the room back into a rec room. It
certainly is a lot easier underfoot, and as Pop says, not as hard to
keep clean as I expected. And it really helps muffle the noise.
I don't think I'd put carpet in a shop on purpose, but after living
with it for 10+ years, it's proven to be more practical than I
expected by far. Now we are preparing to move, and it's cleaned up
well enough with a good vacuuming that I'm just going to leave it be.
Even the old paint stain is mostly gone from the repeated vacuumings.
Paul
On 3/8/2006 2:48 PM stryped mumbled something about the following:
> x-no-archive:yes
>
> Southern, Kentucky
At least now we know where you live that you don't want archived.
Ooops, it's now archived. Not that you'll ever explain why you don't
want your posts archive. But that's okay, Tom and I will make sure they
get archived.
--
Odinn
"stryped" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> x-no-archive:yes
>
> I have never heard of a slab that was only 2 inches thick?
> The other problem is I cant use a wood floor as I also do some welding
> and cutting of metal and need a space to park one car.
>
>
> arw01 wrote:
>> I would agree, the gravel floor will be a major PIA to deal with. No
>> way to clean up sawdust, and having sawdust on top of the gravel would
>> mean taking that entire layer of both off prior to concrete. The
>> sawdust would decompose and start to leave voids where the concreate
>> can break out.
>>
>> Now if purlins are the same as using pier blocks to create a raised
>> joist floor so you can put electrical and dust collection in the floor,
>> then you could do that yourself over time. Maybe making a 20x20 pad to
>> start with and then adding on from there.
>>
>> In my local area a 30x30 x 2" concrete pad is about $2250 + sales tax.
>>
>> Alan
>
Ask your concrete company if they do fiberglass reinforced concrete.
that is about as strong as I have ever seen. We use it up here in Vancouver
Canada for radiant floor heat.
We pour it only 1.5" thick on top of the plywood.
I think if you can get the gravel level and compacted you could do a pretty
thin floor with that kind of concrete
still wouldnt want to drive heavy machinery on it though.
Doug
"Bubba Wood" <l@rr60ru3@n0$pam.@de1p4!a.com> wrote
>
> I just finished a 24x32 shop/garage. The slab floor was $4000. It is
> fiberglass renforced, has re-bar per code and plastic under liner.
> That also included a 6 foot x 24 foot apron in front of the doors. The
> roof is truss built and we hoisted them with a stick boom fork lift.
> Also used that to raise the walls. All built by an old man (me) and
> my 25 year old son.
>
> You can see the results at http://users.adelphia.net/~larrydrum/
> There are a few build process photos up there right now.
>
Looks nice. Good job Bubba. I bet it is nice to work in a dedicated shop
like this.
Why the gaps between the drawers in your cabinets along the wall. Or lack
of doors on the other cabinets?
I do like the built in platforms for the miter saw, etc.
Also, why no paint on the walls? White paint lightens the place up and
increases visibility. And is easier on the eyes than OSB.
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>Also, I read somewhere of a construction method I had never heard of
>before. You would gig holes just like for poles in a pole barn but you
>would put posts in there that only stuck out a foot or two.
unfortunately my quick posting from yesterday did not make it through our
firewall, so another quick post:
i had a pole building, exactly as you describe, put up last year. i
would highly recommend that you have someone do it for you--but i admire
your initiative. another recommendation is that you consider "clear
span" joists (i.e., engineered i-beams). you'll have a lot more attic
space than even an attic truss would yield. (especially if you have a 1
or 2 foot kick wall built.)
the building, so far, has cost roughly $21k....there's a fortune to be
saved in doing all the interior, electrical, and painting yourself.
i put up a quick summary of the construction of the building this past
december. it can be found at:
http://users.adelphia.net/~kimnach/Outbuilding/Outbuilding.htm
good luck.