Too often we build stuff and "expect it to work".
The technical aspects of design have always interested me, and answering
the question "How do we know the design is correct?" has always been of
interest.
Many of us who wood work for a hobby also work in other technical
occupations so I thought the following article might be of interest. It
is about software and quality, but the issues seem to be the same for
any design/build process.
http://www.baselinemag.com/article2/0,1397,1543588,00.asp
When I make something new -- even if it is a simple design I (try to?
:-) ) think of these issues. (Along with the usual issues.)
Is it pleasing to the eye and touch?
Will it work? (Is it functional?)
Will it work if someone use it in an unexpected mode? (I have seen
people turn stools and chairs over and stand on the rungs...)
How will it fail?
Will it fail safely.
Is the usage obvious?
Did the pieces fit -- or did I jury rig something leaving a future
safety/repair problem.
Are there "safety threats" such as sharp corners, and edges, is the
material hazardous, can fingers, or clothes catch in unexpected ways,
will it fall over? etc.
Anyway -- just some food for thought.
This was the article that lead me to finding the previous.
http://www.baselinemag.com/article2/0,1397,1783112,00.asp
--
Will
Occasional Techno-geek
WillR wrote:
> Too often we build stuff and "expect it to work".
>
> The technical aspects of design have always interested me, and
answering
> the question "How do we know the design is correct?" has always been
of
> interest.
>
> Many of us who wood work for a hobby also work in other technical
> occupations so I thought the following article might be of interest.
It
> is about software and quality, but the issues seem to be the same for
> any design/build process.
>
> http://www.baselinemag.com/article2/0,1397,1543588,00.asp
>
> When I make something new -- even if it is a simple design I (try to?
> :-) ) think of these issues. (Along with the usual issues.)
>
> Is it pleasing to the eye and touch?
> Will it work? (Is it functional?)
> Will it work if someone use it in an unexpected mode? (I have seen
> people turn stools and chairs over and stand on the rungs...)
> How will it fail?
> Will it fail safely.
> Is the usage obvious?
> Did the pieces fit -- or did I jury rig something leaving a future
> safety/repair problem.
> Are there "safety threats" such as sharp corners, and edges, is the
> material hazardous, can fingers, or clothes catch in unexpected ways,
> will it fall over? etc.
>
> Anyway -- just some food for thought.
>
> This was the article that lead me to finding the previous.
> http://www.baselinemag.com/article2/0,1397,1783112,00.asp
>
>
> --
> Will
> Occasional Techno-geek
Software can never have qualtiy untill there is a standard way of
building a program that uses code that has proven itself for the
intended application. When you build a house, the 2 x 4 is of a known
wood type suitable for frame construction. The frame construction
itself has been developed over the years with techniques (such as
headers, joists, spacing, nailing patterns, etc) that have proven in
use and proven in the laboratory. Software doesn't have that - oop
guys veered off of that track from the very start. In fact programming
right now is like building a house under a tent. The workman every day
go in and you here a lot of noise and shouting, the foreman comes out
and says it going great, they even take you blind folded in a show you
the kitchen, and you see it looks great. The comes the day, where they
take the tent off, and you find that rooms don't connect, the kitchen
is in the basement, all of the bathrooms are next to each other, etc...
Al
I saw an Ent Cent on HGTV last night that had the electronics on a rack on a
pull out rail which then rotated 90 degrees to get at the wiring. Looked
like the wires then terminated at a bunch of connectors on the back wall of
the cabinet. Looked pretty neat.
Jerry I
"WillR" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 20:02:32 -0400, the inscrutable WillR
>> <[email protected]> spake:
>>
>>
>>>Larry Jaques wrote:
>>
>> I modified a pair of plans to fit whatever wood I had laying around,
>> including the poplar branch food rest.
>>
> Maybe you should publish a picture. I was thinking of doing one. I have
> several "plans" that I would not call plans (dimensions don't add up as
> usual) -- but the ideas are certainly there.
>
>>
>>
>>>>>Furniture must work without documentation.
>>>>
>>>><g>
>>>
>>>I see you have been in a cubicle at least once.
>>
>>
>> Almost. I escaped from Palomar Technology in '91, before they merged
>> with SKF (the bearing people) and moved us down to Sandy Eggo into a
>> cubicled, containerized Corporation company. <shudder> That's when
>> I started DIVERSIFY! I've been broke and happy ever since.
>>
>
> Congratulations. Sorry that you are running an NPO -- I've done that too.
> Unintentionally of course as I am sure is your situation.
>
>>>So are you going to build a temple, design a cathedral or perhaps design
>>>and build a new style of Highboy now that you've had "the talk"?
>>
>>
>> Projects inked on the whiteboard are A&C dictionary stand in QSRO,
>> modernized A&C entertainment center in mahogany, A&C settle in jarrah,
>> and at least a pair of tool cabinets in (maybe) maple.
>
> That should take care of this life and the next in terms of time. :-)
>
> I am adding drawers to my Lathe bench. Doing every drawer in a different
> style just for practice. But I am making the drawer (false) fronts of 1/2
> Oak so it _looks_ consistent from the outside. Fool the unwary...
>
> First drawer was 1/2 poplar plywood with finger joints. This one (today)
> is 3/8 birch with dovetails. Tomorrow? who knows. But the priority is to
> clean up the mess. It's just too darn hard to work with a mess in the
> shop. It destroys the creativity.
>
> I think for me it will be a coffee table -- and then probably end tables.
> I am sure that when I build the coffee table it will be the same
> experience as the rest of the in-house projects. I will decide that the
> stuff I "matched" is crap and that it has to go go go! Hence the end
> tables -- which are local-box-warehouse-manufacturer-modern-machined-wood
> style -- inherited from a young'un that skipped the country and ran off
> with a foreign guy. LOL
>
> I also have an empty sitting room that houses a lawn chair to be set
> outside again shortly, along with end tables and feet rest. Which ill
> deprive me of a "temporary" computer station.
>
> These projects cascade you know.
>
>
>>
>> I rethunk the ent cent after Tawm's last little talk but haven't
>> penned any mods on paper yet. I'm on Rev.8 in the head now.
>
> Ent. Cent's are tough -- because technology changes -- meaning that the
> the contents can change dimensions every few years. I still don't see how
> to make the re-configurable enough to justify large expenditures --
> unless you are part of the nouveau riche class of course. The last two we
> purchased were junked and we are on our third.
>
> I figger the next one will have to be re-configurable with mechanical pull
> outs to accommodate cabling changes and feed issues -- assuming the world
> doesn't go to Bluetooth or something.
>
> I wonder if a rotating base with a swing out back (maybe a simple door or
> doors?) would work? Hmmmm.. I won't even mention trailer hubs... But all
> kidding aside maybe it would work. Or maybe a stable base with cabinets --
> but the parts that hold electronics rotate out for accessibility. Any
> thoughts?
>
>
>
>
>> And there's always that bowsaur in teak I could finish up and give some
>> of the Old Timers (old farts) here heart attacks.
>
> Please no! I can't stand any more problems.
>
>>
>
> And of course I always have at least one Jewel Box and a carving on the
> go. They occupy my time when I run out of real projects.
>
>
> --
> Will
> Occasional Techno-geek
> http://woodwork.pmccl.com
Tom Watson wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 07:06:39 -0700, Larry Jaques
> <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>>"How about if it just works well?" the WET countered.
>>
>>(Wannabe English Teacher ;)
>
>
> "Critics are like eunuchs in a harem; they know how it's done, they've
> seen it done every day, but they're unable to do it themselves."
>
> Brendan Behan
>
>
> (hee, hee, hee....)
>
>
>
>
> Tom Watson - WoodDorker
> tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (email)
> http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/ (website)
That was cruel and called for.
--
Will
Occasional Techno-geek
Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Apr 2005 08:42:58 -0400, the inscrutable WillR
> <[email protected]> spake:
>
>
>>>>I wonder if a rotating base with a swing out back (maybe a simple door
>>>>or doors?) would work? Hmmmm.. I won't even mention trailer hubs... But
>>>>all kidding aside maybe it would work. Or maybe a stable base with
>>>>cabinets -- but the parts that hold electronics rotate out for
>>>>accessibility. Any thoughts?
>>>
>>>My first thought was to anchor one side on a pole and rotate the other
>>>side out from the corner on a large caster for PLENTY of room to
>>>access the wiring. Instead, I'll hang it all and have it right in
>>>front of my face. A single "pipe" will route wiring down from there.
>>
>>I thought about this one before I replied. Your idea appeals to my sense
>>of "neatness" -- we did this on mainframes (the ceiling to floor pipe),
>>but as to "purity" in woodworking? I dunno. The efficacy of the idea
>>will likely win I suspect.
>
>
>
>
>>What I thought of, was using the Lazy Susans from Lee Valley and having
>>the individual cabinets rotate out. Your idea is probably neater, and
>>almost no cable stretching issues and much less cable flexing. And the
>>idea of housing curved cabinets simply so they can rotate out? Hmmm --
>>lottsa work.
>
>
> No, not curved housings: all nice boxy things.
>
Yeah I know. _I_ was originally thinking curves. Your idea is much
better -- on reflection.
>
>
>>The alternative is cabling troughs -- and that might work... But the
>>pipe looks good. And better and better...
>
>
> I meant more like a flexible cable conduit in 3" (or better) size. It
> would be fairly hidden behind the "stack."
>
Works for me. May I steal it kind sir?
>
>>>>And of course I always have at least one Jewel Box and a carving on the
>>>>go. They occupy my time when I run out of real projects.
>>>
>>>
>>>I've been wanting to get around to carving but I want to put some
>>>furniture together first. More energy would help, and maybe a bit more
>>>business to help fund the wood for new projects. Luckily, I have a
>>>large stock of both jarrah and mahogany now.
>>
>>Carving is not that difficult if you have a good sense of depth. It
>>takes time to learn the moves -- but it can be very peaceful. Ideal for
>>a recluse. (Maybe you should also make an easel and take up painting.)
>
>
> I do paint a bit and a clone of the Lobo easel is on my Hernia Edition
> of the Future Plans book. ;) I dabble in oil and acrylic.
> http://www.dickblick.com/zz502/01/products.asp?param=0&ig_id=2918
Those are nice easels. Afraid I'm gonna turn plagiarist. Oh the shame!
You are a gold mine of tips.
>
>>:-) I got a flexcut starter set and handle - inexpensive and effective.
>>When I finished the leaf and still had all my fingers, no wounds, and no
>>blood on the carving -- I bought more knives. Oh -- and a carving glove.
>>When I bought the extra knives -- the supplier said "I'm impressed, but
>>you're buying a glove". It's a good investment.
>
>
> Get another one. Carving takes two hands. Which one holds the knife is
> determined by which direction you're going, so the other is always at
> risk. HF sold some with stickum on the face which works well in
> handling glass. I no longer see them on the website. HF is a great
> place for gloves. I have their nitrile, latex, leather work, vinyl,
> leather welding, and glass gloves. The large leather-palm work gloves
> are the only style which die early, but at $7 for 6 pair, it's not a
> bit loss.
The knife only points to one hand. I borrowed SWMBO's one day and tried
two. Couldn't feel the wood. Glove on left -- holding wood -- knife in
right.
>
> I wonder how the Kevlar Mechanics Gloves would fare for carving.
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=92173
>
Carvers gloves seem to be a lot lighter.
>
>>Aside:
>>I run into lots of people in the Wood business who want their web sites
>>re-done for commercial ordering. I don't want to do that anymore -- the
>>marketing work -- ok -- but technical stuff. -- much lower interest level.
>>
>>You seem to be a MS provider so don't take offense -- but way too many
>>bugs in IIS and a lot of them are on MS sites already with way too much
>>work to pull out -- for their wallet to handle it. As soon as I look --
>>it seems there is too much work and no time for me to go further. No
>>matter how busy I am -- or ain't.
>
>
> I don't do Multiple Sclerosis, thanks.
Linux/ Apache? (LAMP?) Hmmm interesting to me -- but as I said many of
these guys are on MS now.
>
>
>>I do keep up on the latest algorithms for cracking stuff. Shudder! Very
>>little is secure these days. The multi-core systems and distributed
>>algorithms will create a nightmare for the security side. The idea of
>>possible liability as a commerce website developer bothers me.
>>
>>They can have a link to your site from now on... :-)
>
>
> Thanks, though I'm wondering if there's a future in this any more,
> with Mom, Pop, Grandpa, Grandma, Little Suzy, Tiny Tim, and the folks
> in India, etc. all in the game nowadays saying "I'll do it for a
> dollar!" I'm heavily rethinking my income sourcing strategy.
>
It is an issue -- mostly that _everybody_ is in it now. Don't know if
you have figured out how long I have been at this -- but I did some
design work with An Wang (same projects) if the name rings a bell. :-)
Talk about dating myself :-) If you don't know who I mean, that should
tell you even more.
Another Aside:
May have picked up some work and a sales house/gallery for my work this
afternoon. We will both think on it for a few days and see if we still
feel good about it.
Showed the fellow some of my work. Felt good when he kept fondling the
piece and asking how I got that finish. Thinks it may be a bit upscale
for his market --- told him I would bring him some "lower end stuff".
I think his stuff is better than he realizes. :-)
If this works out in may be the nail in the coffin for some of the other
work I do.
>
> =========================================================
> Save the Whales + http://www.diversify.com
> Collect the whole set! + Website design and graphics
> =========================================================
--
Will
Occasional Techno-geek
On Wed, 20 Apr 2005 08:42:58 -0400, the inscrutable WillR
<[email protected]> spake:
>>>I wonder if a rotating base with a swing out back (maybe a simple door
>>>or doors?) would work? Hmmmm.. I won't even mention trailer hubs... But
>>>all kidding aside maybe it would work. Or maybe a stable base with
>>>cabinets -- but the parts that hold electronics rotate out for
>>>accessibility. Any thoughts?
>>
>> My first thought was to anchor one side on a pole and rotate the other
>> side out from the corner on a large caster for PLENTY of room to
>> access the wiring. Instead, I'll hang it all and have it right in
>> front of my face. A single "pipe" will route wiring down from there.
>
>I thought about this one before I replied. Your idea appeals to my sense
>of "neatness" -- we did this on mainframes (the ceiling to floor pipe),
>but as to "purity" in woodworking? I dunno. The efficacy of the idea
>will likely win I suspect.
>What I thought of, was using the Lazy Susans from Lee Valley and having
>the individual cabinets rotate out. Your idea is probably neater, and
>almost no cable stretching issues and much less cable flexing. And the
>idea of housing curved cabinets simply so they can rotate out? Hmmm --
>lottsa work.
No, not curved housings: all nice boxy things.
>The alternative is cabling troughs -- and that might work... But the
>pipe looks good. And better and better...
I meant more like a flexible cable conduit in 3" (or better) size. It
would be fairly hidden behind the "stack."
>>>And of course I always have at least one Jewel Box and a carving on the
>>>go. They occupy my time when I run out of real projects.
>>
>>
>> I've been wanting to get around to carving but I want to put some
>> furniture together first. More energy would help, and maybe a bit more
>> business to help fund the wood for new projects. Luckily, I have a
>> large stock of both jarrah and mahogany now.
>
>Carving is not that difficult if you have a good sense of depth. It
>takes time to learn the moves -- but it can be very peaceful. Ideal for
>a recluse. (Maybe you should also make an easel and take up painting.)
I do paint a bit and a clone of the Lobo easel is on my Hernia Edition
of the Future Plans book. ;) I dabble in oil and acrylic.
http://www.dickblick.com/zz502/01/products.asp?param=0&ig_id=2918
>:-) I got a flexcut starter set and handle - inexpensive and effective.
>When I finished the leaf and still had all my fingers, no wounds, and no
>blood on the carving -- I bought more knives. Oh -- and a carving glove.
>When I bought the extra knives -- the supplier said "I'm impressed, but
>you're buying a glove". It's a good investment.
Get another one. Carving takes two hands. Which one holds the knife is
determined by which direction you're going, so the other is always at
risk. HF sold some with stickum on the face which works well in
handling glass. I no longer see them on the website. HF is a great
place for gloves. I have their nitrile, latex, leather work, vinyl,
leather welding, and glass gloves. The large leather-palm work gloves
are the only style which die early, but at $7 for 6 pair, it's not a
bit loss.
I wonder how the Kevlar Mechanics Gloves would fare for carving.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=92173
>Aside:
>I run into lots of people in the Wood business who want their web sites
>re-done for commercial ordering. I don't want to do that anymore -- the
>marketing work -- ok -- but technical stuff. -- much lower interest level.
>
>You seem to be a MS provider so don't take offense -- but way too many
>bugs in IIS and a lot of them are on MS sites already with way too much
>work to pull out -- for their wallet to handle it. As soon as I look --
>it seems there is too much work and no time for me to go further. No
>matter how busy I am -- or ain't.
I don't do Multiple Sclerosis, thanks.
>I do keep up on the latest algorithms for cracking stuff. Shudder! Very
>little is secure these days. The multi-core systems and distributed
>algorithms will create a nightmare for the security side. The idea of
>possible liability as a commerce website developer bothers me.
>
>They can have a link to your site from now on... :-)
Thanks, though I'm wondering if there's a future in this any more,
with Mom, Pop, Grandpa, Grandma, Little Suzy, Tiny Tim, and the folks
in India, etc. all in the game nowadays saying "I'll do it for a
dollar!" I'm heavily rethinking my income sourcing strategy.
=========================================================
Save the Whales + http://www.diversify.com
Collect the whole set! + Website design and graphics
=========================================================
On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 20:02:32 -0400, the inscrutable WillR
<[email protected]> spake:
>Larry Jaques wrote:
>> I have a feeling that when I start making furniture, it'll be a
>> real eye opener for me, though the shave bench didn't prove to be
>> too tough.
>
>Curious about that. I have seen a few "plans" lately. Did you follow one
>(or did it follow you?). Or did you modify or invent on the fly from a
>picture?
I modified a pair of plans to fit whatever wood I had laying around,
including the poplar branch food rest.
>>>Furniture must work without documentation.
>>
>> <g>
>
>I see you have been in a cubicle at least once.
Almost. I escaped from Palomar Technology in '91, before they merged
with SKF (the bearing people) and moved us down to Sandy Eggo into a
cubicled, containerized Corporation company. <shudder> That's when
I started DIVERSIFY! I've been broke and happy ever since.
>>>A perfect piece will tell you where and how to touch it.
>>
>> Like a woman.
>
>Like a _good_ woman.
Is there anything else?
>>>There is no such thing as a perfect piece.
>>
>> You neve met Sadie...
>> <wink wink, nudge nudge, say no more>
>
>Hey! Can we get back on topic here? (wellll.... was she....????)
A gentleman never kisses and tells.
(Yeah, the hottest.)
>>>Furniture lives within rooms that live within houses that live within
>>>lifestyles that live within dreams.
>>>
>>>In order to design properly, you must understand dreams, quickly.
>>
>> Ah, I like it.
>
>So tell us Larry did you ever make anything that gave you that feeling?
>Or did he just give you a nudge to get yah thinking and moving.
>>>Perfect design is no more than identifying a need, intuiting the dream
>>>behind it, and realizing both desires, which are often in competition,
>>>making it all work in 3D, and staying within a tightly controlled
>>>budget - both yours and theirs.
>>>
>>>Simple, really.
>>
>>
>> As usual, things such as this are much more easily stated than
>> achieved. Good goal, really. Thanks for the little talk, Tawm.
>
>He's good ain't he?
>
>So are you going to build a temple, design a cathedral or perhaps design
>and build a new style of Highboy now that you've had "the talk"?
Projects inked on the whiteboard are A&C dictionary stand in QSRO,
modernized A&C entertainment center in mahogany, A&C settle in jarrah,
and at least a pair of tool cabinets in (maybe) maple.
I rethunk the ent cent after Tawm's last little talk but haven't
penned any mods on paper yet. I'm on Rev.8 in the head now.
And there's always that bowsaur in teak I could finish up and give
some of the Old Timers (old farts) here heart attacks.
>> VIRTUE...is its own punishment
>> http://www.diversify.com Website Applications
>Obscenity, like virtue, is its own reward. -- Tom Lehrer
>(Or maybe I fiddled it a bit -- I forget.)
?
--
"Giving every man a vote has no more made men wise and free
than Christianity has made them good." --H. L. Mencken
---
www.diversify.com Complete Website Development
On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 20:29:37 -0400, the inscrutable Tom Watson
<[email protected]> spake:
WillR said:
>>This was the article that lead me to finding the previous.
>>http://www.baselinemag.com/article2/0,1397,1783112,00.asp
>
>I don't really know anything about writing code for money, and the
>only book I ever read on it was "Code Complete", which was a damned
>interesting book, even to an outsider. (That, and "The C Programming
>Language", are my all time favorite computer reads.)(Well, excepting
>maybe "Microserfs", which was pretty damned funny.)
>
>I do know that furniture, and in particular, Purpose Built Furniture,
>has to subscribe to only two cardinal rules, albeit with applied
>codae.
>
>1: It must look good.
>
>2: It must work good.
"How about if it just works well?" the WET countered.
(Wannabe English Teacher ;)
>Although I have listed them as first and second, there is no actual
>difference in importance between the two, excepting the fact that when
>I was a carpenter I could always achieve 2 but not always 1. I only
>considered myself a cabinetmaker when I could achieve both.
Nice.
>Now for the codae:
>
>Making something work good takes a mechanical mind.
>
>Making something look good takes an artistic mind.
>
>Most designers have both but in varying proportions. One side must be
>let loose and the other educated.
I have a feeling that when I start making furniture, it'll be a
real eye opener for me, though the shave bench didn't prove to be
too tough.
>Furniture must work without documentation.
<g>
>Something that looks good but doesn't work good will piss everyone
>off.
All true. (Or should I say "all good and well"?)
>A perfect piece will tell you where and how to touch it.
Like a woman.
>There is no such thing as a perfect piece.
You neve met Sadie...
<wink wink, nudge nudge, say no more>
>Furniture lives within rooms that live within houses that live within
>lifestyles that live within dreams.
>
>In order to design properly, you must understand dreams, quickly.
Ah, I like it.
>Perfect design is no more than identifying a need, intuiting the dream
>behind it, and realizing both desires, which are often in competition,
>making it all work in 3D, and staying within a tightly controlled
>budget - both yours and theirs.
>
>Simple, really.
As usual, things such as this are much more easily stated than
achieved. Good goal, really. Thanks for the little talk, Tawm.
----------------------------------
VIRTUE...is its own punishment
http://www.diversify.com Website Applications
==================================================
Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 21:10:15 -0400, the inscrutable WillR
> <[email protected]> spake:
>
>
>>I did not say un-called for. <g>
>
>
> True, you didn't.
>
>
>
>>...and he does seem to need those leather reins -- must be a fetish. LOL
>>
>>I figger they will turn him back at the BC border as as undesirable when
>>he visits Lee Valley.
>
>
> "What, I can't take my guns, knives, and rocket launchers into
> Canuckistan? Whuffo?"
Because. You just can't.
Politicians here are scared of things that go bang. Considering their
competence and honesty they should be.
--
Will
Occasional Techno-geek
[email protected] wrote:
> WillR wrote:
>
>>Too often we build stuff and "expect it to work".
>>
>>The technical aspects of design have always interested me, and
>
> answering
>
>>the question "How do we know the design is correct?" has always been
>
> of
>
>>interest.
>>
>>Many of us who wood work for a hobby also work in other technical
>>occupations so I thought the following article might be of interest.
>
> It
>
>>is about software and quality, but the issues seem to be the same for
>
>
>>any design/build process.
>>
>>http://www.baselinemag.com/article2/0,1397,1543588,00.asp
>>
>>When I make something new -- even if it is a simple design I (try to?
>
>
>>:-) ) think of these issues. (Along with the usual issues.)
>>
>>Is it pleasing to the eye and touch?
>>Will it work? (Is it functional?)
>>Will it work if someone use it in an unexpected mode? (I have seen
>>people turn stools and chairs over and stand on the rungs...)
>>How will it fail?
>>Will it fail safely.
>>Is the usage obvious?
>>Did the pieces fit -- or did I jury rig something leaving a future
>>safety/repair problem.
>>Are there "safety threats" such as sharp corners, and edges, is the
>>material hazardous, can fingers, or clothes catch in unexpected ways,
>
>
>>will it fall over? etc.
>>
>>Anyway -- just some food for thought.
>>
>>This was the article that lead me to finding the previous.
>>http://www.baselinemag.com/article2/0,1397,1783112,00.asp
>>
>>
>>--
>>Will
>>Occasional Techno-geek
>
>
> Software can never have qualtiy untill there is a standard way of
> building a program that uses code that has proven itself for the
> intended application. When you build a house, the 2 x 4 is of a known
> wood type suitable for frame construction. The frame construction
> itself has been developed over the years with techniques (such as
> headers, joists, spacing, nailing patterns, etc) that have proven in
> use and proven in the laboratory. Software doesn't have that - oop
> guys veered off of that track from the very start. In fact programming
> right now is like building a house under a tent. The workman every day
> go in and you here a lot of noise and shouting, the foreman comes out
> and says it going great, they even take you blind folded in a show you
> the kitchen, and you see it looks great. The comes the day, where they
> take the tent off, and you find that rooms don't connect, the kitchen
> is in the basement, all of the bathrooms are next to each other, etc...
>
> Al
>
Hope you don't expect me to argue with you on that rant. ROTFLMAO.
Love it!
I prefer woodwork to the old eng. and high tech crap. It's more peaceful.
Just love it when I can form and function to agree and the wood grain
and finish complement the finished form. And I don't have client arguing
with me over the technology to use.
--
Will
Occasional Techno-geek
Robatoy wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> WillR <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>I am curious though -- about the blood drops -- have you ever ruined a
>>counter top that way?
>
>
> <G> That's why I ended up specializing in solid surface.
> Methyl methacrylate aluminum trihydrate-style solid surface (Staron,
> Gibraltar, Meganite, Corian etc.) cannot be stained.
> Some compounds, like poly-varnish, stick to it like dog-snot to a screen
> door, but it will not penetrate into the material itself, hence the use
> of it in dentistry in the form of caps.
> My blood is not one of those compounds that will stick.
> Tofu, on the other hand, is likely to blow a hole right through it. I
> mean, that stuff is not from this planet.... and some people EAT it!!
>
> CBC classical station is a must sometimes. I often deal with decorators,
> so I need some calming influence, lest I be spending 15 to 20 in the Big
> House for strangling a decorator with one of their sample chains. Messy.
>
> ..okay...in with the good air....out with the bad..
>
> OMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
Robatoy:
Somehow after reading one of your posts I can cope with any kind of day.
Your AMT must be rubbing off on me.
The CBC comment is right on. However, when I shifted some stuff in the
shop -- below grade -- the reception kinda pooftered out. Normally I
don't like opera, but even that can work quite well some days. I am
trying to find a place it works... In the meantime FOXY 88 out of Barrie
has to suffice -- sigh.
Some cabinet and stool design was helped along by the calming influence
of some Mozart for example. :-)
I used to hate oak furniture. Now that I can put on a finish I like -- I
really like the contrast between the grain and the form and the soft
glow of the resting object... Ommmmmm
On another topic... Good thing about the blood.... Although when I was
designing electronics (in a life time best forgotten) we used to say
that it wasn't really finished till we had shed blood on some sharp
component. So maybe your counter designs are not truly finished and you
will be called back to do more work...? Would that be good or bad?
As for the counter tops -- I have one here to replace... When I quit
blowing cash on new toys I will come to see you for a replacement... I
suspect the $150 cost of the round trip will be worth it.
Keep on trucking and selling those counter tops -- as you are the only
guy working in the country you have to make up for the rest of us
slackasses.
<g>
--
Will
Occasional Techno-geek
Robatoy wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> WillR <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>As for the counter tops -- I have one here to replace... When I quit
>>blowing cash on new toys I will come to see you for a replacement... I
>>suspect the $150 cost of the round trip will be worth it.
>
>
> I need your addy. I used to have a link to your site..mmm..where did it
> go...
>
> Drop me a line at the Contact addy on my web site. www.topworks.ca.
>
> I have ways to save you a ton of money if you want solid surface.
>
> Besides isn't Bailey's Restaurant on 11...south of Stroud?
>
> r
will do
it's pretty obvious tho.
--
Will
Occasional Techno-geek
http://woodwork.pmccl.com
Robatoy wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> WillR <[email protected]> wrote:
>=20
>=20
>>You would mention budget. A great picture till that moment. LOL
>>
>>
>>>Simple, really.
>>>
>>
>>And pigs fly?
>=20
>=20
> Nothing like the word 'BUDGET' to put a chill up one's spine, eh?
>=20
> Scratch the 'simple, really' when you start bringing money into this=20
> picture...<G>
That's why more and more I make stuff -- and then if people like it they =
can buy it. When people ask "Why was it made that way?" I just shrug --=20
or say "What do you expect from a <insert appropriate occupation here> - =
do you like? Wanna buy it?"
If someone really hates it, I agree and tell them an idiot probably=20
designed it. Again, saves arguments -- at least we can agree on=20
something then. :-)
Also saves a lot of explanations. <g>
--=20
Will R.
Jewel Boxes and Wood Art
http://woodwork.pmccl.com
The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those=20
who have not got it.=94 George Bernard Shaw
Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 20:29:37 -0400, the inscrutable Tom Watson
> <[email protected]> spake:
>
> WillR said:
>
>>>This was the article that lead me to finding the previous.
>>>http://www.baselinemag.com/article2/0,1397,1783112,00.asp
>>
>>I don't really know anything about writing code for money, and the
>>only book I ever read on it was "Code Complete", which was a damned
>>interesting book, even to an outsider. (That, and "The C Programming
>>Language", are my all time favorite computer reads.)(Well, excepting
>>maybe "Microserfs", which was pretty damned funny.)
>>
>>I do know that furniture, and in particular, Purpose Built Furniture,
>>has to subscribe to only two cardinal rules, albeit with applied
>>codae.
>>
>>1: It must look good.
>>
>>2: It must work good.
>
>
> "How about if it just works well?" the WET countered.
>
> (Wannabe English Teacher ;)
It will if you wipe it with acetone, ground it, torch it, wire brush it,
stain the h*** out of it and then top coat it with poly. But that's not
important right now. Oh, and don't build it with lumber. Bad
connotations. :-)
>>Although I have listed them as first and second, there is no actual
>>difference in importance between the two, excepting the fact that when
>>I was a carpenter I could always achieve 2 but not always 1. I only
>>considered myself a cabinetmaker when I could achieve both.
>
>
> Nice.
>
>
>
>>Now for the codae:
>>
>>Making something work good takes a mechanical mind.
>>
>>Making something look good takes an artistic mind.
>>
>>Most designers have both but in varying proportions. One side must be
>>let loose and the other educated.
>
>
> I have a feeling that when I start making furniture, it'll be a
> real eye opener for me, though the shave bench didn't prove to be
> too tough.
>
Curious about that. I have seen a few "plans" lately. Did you follow one
(or did it follow you?). Or did you modify or invent on the fly from a
picture?
>
>
>>Furniture must work without documentation.
>
>
> <g>
I see you have been in a cubicle at least once.
>
>>Something that looks good but doesn't work good will piss everyone
>>off.
>
>
> All true. (Or should I say "all good and well"?)
>
<groan>
<g>
>>A perfect piece will tell you where and how to touch it.
>
>
> Like a woman.
Like a _good_ woman.
>
>>There is no such thing as a perfect piece.
>
>
> You neve met Sadie...
> <wink wink, nudge nudge, say no more>
>
Hey! Can we get back on topic here? (wellll.... was she....????)
>
>>Furniture lives within rooms that live within houses that live within
>>lifestyles that live within dreams.
>>
>>In order to design properly, you must understand dreams, quickly.
>
>
> Ah, I like it.
>
So tell us Larry did you ever make anything that gave you that feeling?
Or did he just give you a nudge to get yah thinking and moving.
>
>
>>Perfect design is no more than identifying a need, intuiting the dream
>>behind it, and realizing both desires, which are often in competition,
>>making it all work in 3D, and staying within a tightly controlled
>>budget - both yours and theirs.
>>
>>Simple, really.
>
>
> As usual, things such as this are much more easily stated than
> achieved. Good goal, really. Thanks for the little talk, Tawm.
>
He's good ain't he?
So are you going to build a temple, design a cathedral or perhaps design
and build a new style of Highboy now that you've had "the talk"?
>
> ----------------------------------
> VIRTUE...is its own punishment
> http://www.diversify.com Website Applications
> ==================================================
Obscenity, like virtue, is its own reward. -- Tom Lehrer
(Or maybe I fiddled it a bit -- I forget.)
--
Will
Occasional Techno-geek
In article <[email protected]>,
WillR <[email protected]> wrote:
> I am curious though -- about the blood drops -- have you ever ruined a
> counter top that way?
<G> That's why I ended up specializing in solid surface.
Methyl methacrylate aluminum trihydrate-style solid surface (Staron,
Gibraltar, Meganite, Corian etc.) cannot be stained.
Some compounds, like poly-varnish, stick to it like dog-snot to a screen
door, but it will not penetrate into the material itself, hence the use
of it in dentistry in the form of caps.
My blood is not one of those compounds that will stick.
Tofu, on the other hand, is likely to blow a hole right through it. I
mean, that stuff is not from this planet.... and some people EAT it!!
CBC classical station is a must sometimes. I often deal with decorators,
so I need some calming influence, lest I be spending 15 to 20 in the Big
House for strangling a decorator with one of their sample chains. Messy.
..okay...in with the good air....out with the bad..
OMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
In article <[email protected]>,
WillR <[email protected]> wrote:
> You would mention budget. A great picture till that moment. LOL
>
> > Simple, really.
> >
>
> And pigs fly?
Nothing like the word 'BUDGET' to put a chill up one's spine, eh?
Scratch the 'simple, really' when you start bringing money into this
picture...<G>
In article <[email protected]>,
WillR <[email protected]> wrote:
> As for the counter tops -- I have one here to replace... When I quit
> blowing cash on new toys I will come to see you for a replacement... I
> suspect the $150 cost of the round trip will be worth it.
I need your addy. I used to have a link to your site..mmm..where did it
go...
Drop me a line at the Contact addy on my web site. www.topworks.ca.
I have ways to save you a ton of money if you want solid surface.
Besides isn't Bailey's Restaurant on 11...south of Stroud?
r
In article <[email protected]>,
WillR <[email protected]> wrote:
> Too often we build stuff and "expect it to work".
>
> The technical aspects of design have always interested me, and answering
> the question "How do we know the design is correct?" has always been of
> interest.
{schnipfered for brevity]
What works for me may not work for others. When I am faced with a
project for which no blue-print exists, I ask myself (and the client if
there is one) a ton of questions.
Then the approach is as follows:
Draw up a 3D model. Render it, look at it, rotate it, take it apart,
look at the pieces, rotate them, then ask the following questions:
What would Steve Jobs do?
What would Krenov do?
What would Mies van der Rohe do?
What would it look like to Klee, Gropius etc.
Then I'd turn on CBC classical music station, quickly change my mind and
stick my iPod in my ears instead and stare at the problem till droplets
of blood appear on my forehead and I get a hankering for some tofu.
The solution is close when that happens.
Simple, really.
In article <[email protected]>,
Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> WillR <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Too often we build stuff and "expect it to work".
> >
> > The technical aspects of design have always interested me, and answering
> > the question "How do we know the design is correct?" has always been of
> > interest.
>
> {schnipfered for brevity]
>
> What works for me may not work for others. When I am faced with a
> project for which no blue-print exists, I ask myself (and the client if
> there is one) a ton of questions.
> Then the approach is as follows:
> Draw up a 3D model. Render it, look at it, rotate it, take it apart,
> look at the pieces, rotate them, then ask the following questions:
> What would Steve Jobs do?
> What would Krenov do?
> What would Mies van der Rohe do?
> What would it look like to Klee, Gropius etc.
> Then I'd turn on CBC classical music station, quickly change my mind and
> stick my iPod in my ears instead and stare at the problem till droplets
> of blood appear on my forehead and I get a hankering for some tofu.
> The solution is close when that happens.
>
> Simple, really.
I'm reminded of the cartoon which says: "On the internet nobody knows
you're a dog."...So just to clear up something... I absolutely abhor
tofu. My sense of the humour/the absurd sometimes gets lost here...
On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 20:06:53 -0400, the inscrutable Tom Watson
<[email protected]> spake:
>On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 19:48:30 -0400, WillR
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>That was cruel and called for.
>
>Ah hell, me and C-Less been playing this game for about ten years.
>
>I love the man but just like to show him the reins once in a while.
You call those "reins"? <har>
P.S: That should have been "C-less and I."
--
"Giving every man a vote has no more made men wise and free
than Christianity has made them good." --H. L. Mencken
---
www.diversify.com Complete Website Development
On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 14:25:18 -0400, WillR
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>Too often we build stuff and "expect it to work".
>
>The technical aspects of design have always interested me, and answering
>the question "How do we know the design is correct?" has always been of
>interest.
>
>Many of us who wood work for a hobby also work in other technical
>occupations so I thought the following article might be of interest. It
>is about software and quality, but the issues seem to be the same for
>any design/build process.
>
>http://www.baselinemag.com/article2/0,1397,1543588,00.asp
>
>When I make something new -- even if it is a simple design I (try to?
>:-) ) think of these issues. (Along with the usual issues.)
>
>Is it pleasing to the eye and touch?
>Will it work? (Is it functional?)
>Will it work if someone use it in an unexpected mode? (I have seen
>people turn stools and chairs over and stand on the rungs...)
>How will it fail?
>Will it fail safely.
>Is the usage obvious?
>Did the pieces fit -- or did I jury rig something leaving a future
>safety/repair problem.
>Are there "safety threats" such as sharp corners, and edges, is the
>material hazardous, can fingers, or clothes catch in unexpected ways,
>will it fall over? etc.
>
>Anyway -- just some food for thought.
>
>This was the article that lead me to finding the previous.
>http://www.baselinemag.com/article2/0,1397,1783112,00.asp
I don't really know anything about writing code for money, and the
only book I ever read on it was "Code Complete", which was a damned
interesting book, even to an outsider. (That, and "The C Programming
Language", are my all time favorite computer reads.)(Well, excepting
maybe "Microserfs", which was pretty damned funny.)
I do know that furniture, and in particular, Purpose Built Furniture,
has to subscribe to only two cardinal rules, albeit with applied
codae.
1: It must look good.
2: It must work good.
Although I have listed them as first and second, there is no actual
difference in importance between the two, excepting the fact that when
I was a carpenter I could always achieve 2 but not always 1. I only
considered myself a cabinetmaker when I could achieve both.
Now for the codae:
Making something work good takes a mechanical mind.
Making something look good takes an artistic mind.
Most designers have both but in varying proportions. One side must be
let loose and the other educated.
Furniture must work without documentation.
Something that looks good but doesn't work good will piss everyone
off.
Something that works good but doesn't look good is why engineers don't
usually make it to Broadway.
A perfect piece will tell you where and how to touch it.
There is no such thing as a perfect piece.
Furniture lives within rooms that live within houses that live within
lifestyles that live within dreams.
In order to design properly, you must understand dreams, quickly.
Perfect design is no more than identifying a need, intuiting the dream
behind it, and realizing both desires, which are often in competition,
making it all work in 3D, and staying within a tightly controlled
budget - both yours and theirs.
Simple, really.
Tom Watson - WoodDorker
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/ (website)
On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 21:10:15 -0400, the inscrutable WillR
<[email protected]> spake:
>I did not say un-called for. <g>
True, you didn't.
>...and he does seem to need those leather reins -- must be a fetish. LOL
>
>I figger they will turn him back at the BC border as as undesirable when
>he visits Lee Valley.
"What, I can't take my guns, knives, and rocket launchers into
Canuckistan? Whuffo?"
--
"Giving every man a vote has no more made men wise and free
than Christianity has made them good." --H. L. Mencken
---
www.diversify.com Complete Website Development
Tom Watson wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 19:48:30 -0400, WillR
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>>That was cruel and called for.
>
>
>
> Ah hell, me and C-Less been playing this game for about ten years.
>
> I love the man but just like to show him the reins once in a while.
>
>
>
>
> Tom Watson - WoodDorker
> tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (email)
> http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/ (website)
I did not say un-called for. <g>
...and he does seem to need those leather reins -- must be a fetish. LOL
I figger they will turn him back at the BC border as as undesirable when
he visits Lee Valley.
--
Will
Occasional Techno-geek
On Wed, 20 Apr 2005 18:31:55 -0400, the inscrutable WillR
<[email protected]> spake:
>>>What I thought of, was using the Lazy Susans from Lee Valley and having
>>>the individual cabinets rotate out. Your idea is probably neater, and
>>>almost no cable stretching issues and much less cable flexing. And the
>>>idea of housing curved cabinets simply so they can rotate out? Hmmm --
>>>lottsa work.
>>
>> No, not curved housings: all nice boxy things.
>>
>
>Yeah I know. _I_ was originally thinking curves. Your idea is much
>better -- on reflection.
Not only from ease of construction, I want it to have a Mission feel.
An occasional curve is OK; perhaps those which Ellis gave to the art.
>>>The alternative is cabling troughs -- and that might work... But the
>>>pipe looks good. And better and better...
>>
>> I meant more like a flexible cable conduit in 3" (or better) size. It
>> would be fairly hidden behind the "stack."
>
>Works for me. May I steal it kind sir?
Sure, just buy an extra 6' and send it to me. Got my address? ;)
The middle box (or bottom of the top boxwhich supports the center
speaker can double as a holder for the 2 power strips so a single
cable goes to the wall from each: the strips and the TV. Much cleaner.
>> I do paint a bit and a clone of the Lobo easel is on my Hernia Edition
>> of the Future Plans book. ;) I dabble in oil and acrylic.
>> http://www.dickblick.com/zz502/01/products.asp?param=0&ig_id=2918
>
>Those are nice easels. Afraid I'm gonna turn plagiarist. Oh the shame!
>You are a gold mine of tips.
Tendjewberrymud. I try to research my obses^H^H^H^H^Hhobbies.
>>>:-) I got a flexcut starter set and handle - inexpensive and effective.
>>>When I finished the leaf and still had all my fingers, no wounds, and no
>>>blood on the carving -- I bought more knives. Oh -- and a carving glove.
>>>When I bought the extra knives -- the supplier said "I'm impressed, but
>>>you're buying a glove". It's a good investment.
>>
>> Get another one. Carving takes two hands. Which one holds the knife is
>> determined by which direction you're going, so the other is always at
>> risk. HF sold some with stickum on the face which works well in
>> handling glass. I no longer see them on the website. HF is a great
>> place for gloves. I have their nitrile, latex, leather work, vinyl,
>> leather welding, and glass gloves. The large leather-palm work gloves
>> are the only style which die early, but at $7 for 6 pair, it's not a
>> bit loss.
>
>The knife only points to one hand. I borrowed SWMBO's one day and tried
>two. Couldn't feel the wood. Glove on left -- holding wood -- knife in
>right.
I work with both hands interchangeably with most tools. I guess that
was an added advantage of growing up left^H^H^H^Hcorrect-handed. It
served me well early on, in auto mechanics, and now in wooddorking and
art.
>> I wonder how the Kevlar Mechanics Gloves would fare for carving.
>> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=92173
>
>Carvers gloves seem to be a lot lighter.
True, but the human body adapts quickly and well if needed.
>> I don't do Multiple Sclerosis, thanks.
>
>Linux/ Apache? (LAMP?) Hmmm interesting to me -- but as I said many of
>these guys are on MS now.
I haven't yet installed Mandrake 9; yet another one of those
never-gotten-'round-to projects. <sigh> As a type-B personality,
perhaps I should rethink my beaucoup-page list of projects. (Nah,
sooner or later I'll finish 'em.)
>> Thanks, though I'm wondering if there's a future in this any more,
>> with Mom, Pop, Grandpa, Grandma, Little Suzy, Tiny Tim, and the folks
>> in India, etc. all in the game nowadays saying "I'll do it for a
>> dollar!" I'm heavily rethinking my income sourcing strategy.
>
>It is an issue -- mostly that _everybody_ is in it now. Don't know if
>you have figured out how long I have been at this -- but I did some
>design work with An Wang (same projects) if the name rings a bell. :-)
>Talk about dating myself :-) If you don't know who I mean, that should
>tell you even more.
Wasn't he the founder of Wang Computers? Rings an old, old bell.
(googling...ah, Wang Labs, core memory, '51) You DO go way back,
Sherman!
[abtruse reference to the Way-Back Machine]
>Another Aside:
>May have picked up some work and a sales house/gallery for my work this
>afternoon. We will both think on it for a few days and see if we still
>feel good about it.
>
>Showed the fellow some of my work. Felt good when he kept fondling the
>piece and asking how I got that finish. Thinks it may be a bit upscale
>for his market --- told him I would bring him some "lower end stuff".
Got JPGs? Give 'em up!
>I think his stuff is better than he realizes. :-)
>
>If this works out in may be the nail in the coffin for some of the other
>work I do.
Most excellent! Break a leg, kid.
I need to get into the shop to see if I can produce the quality of
products _for_others_ which will sell for goodly ducats. Then again, I
tend to do better work for others and settle for less if I'm keeping
the item. We'll see soon.
=========================================================
Save the Whales + http://www.diversify.com
Collect the whole set! + Website design and graphics
=========================================================
On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 08:40:25 -0400, the inscrutable WillR
<[email protected]> spake:
>Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 20:02:32 -0400, the inscrutable WillR
>> <[email protected]> spake:
>>
>>>Larry Jaques wrote:
>>
>> I modified a pair of plans to fit whatever wood I had laying around,
>> including the poplar branch food rest.
>>
>Maybe you should publish a picture. I was thinking of doing one. I have
>several "plans" that I would not call plans (dimensions don't add up as
>usual) -- but the ideas are certainly there.
I did about 5 years ago, when it was first built. Ping me offline and
I'll shoot you a pic. I don't do abpw any more.
>Congratulations. Sorry that you are running an NPO -- I've done that
>too. Unintentionally of course as I am sure is your situation.
It's not a NPO, but close. It's sure a whole lot less stressful than
working for someone else. Being single and reclusive by nature helps.
>> Projects inked on the whiteboard are A&C dictionary stand in QSRO,
>> modernized A&C entertainment center in mahogany, A&C settle in jarrah,
>> and at least a pair of tool cabinets in (maybe) maple.
>
>That should take care of this life and the next in terms of time. :-)
At the rate I finish projects, it may be 3 to 12 lifetimes.
>I am adding drawers to my Lathe bench. Doing every drawer in a different
>style just for practice. But I am making the drawer (false) fronts of
>1/2 Oak so it _looks_ consistent from the outside. Fool the unwary...
<g>
>First drawer was 1/2 poplar plywood with finger joints. This one (today)
>is 3/8 birch with dovetails. Tomorrow? who knows. But the priority is to
>clean up the mess. It's just too darn hard to work with a mess in the
>shop. It destroys the creativity.
True. Half my mess is from having too many electrical, plumbing, and
woodworking projects all going at once. Everytime I start one, three
more come up and I have to finish them first, like the new water
heater and then the new undersink shutoff valve which started leaking
after reassembly. The fun stuff is always pushed back. <sigh>
>I think for me it will be a coffee table -- and then probably end
>tables. I am sure that when I build the coffee table it will be the same
>experience as the rest of the in-house projects. I will decide that the
>stuff I "matched" is crap and that it has to go go go! Hence the end
>tables -- which are
>local-box-warehouse-manufacturer-modern-machined-wood style -- inherited
>from a young'un that skipped the country and ran off with a foreign guy. LOL
Condolences. (No, I meant re: the local-box furniture. ;)
>I also have an empty sitting room that houses a lawn chair to be set
>outside again shortly, along with end tables and feet rest. Which ill
>deprive me of a "temporary" computer station.
>
>These projects cascade you know.
Ayup.
>> I rethunk the ent cent after Tawm's last little talk but haven't
>> penned any mods on paper yet. I'm on Rev.8 in the head now.
>
>Ent. Cent's are tough -- because technology changes -- meaning that the
>the contents can change dimensions every few years. I still don't see
>how to make the re-configurable enough to justify large expenditures --
>unless you are part of the nouveau riche class of course. The last two
>we purchased were junked and we are on our third.
I've decided to make mine in 4 pieces, one pedestal for the TV and
3 suspended, modular pieces with the CD racks on the sides. The center
speaker will hang between the rack and the TV. The part I'm chewing on
is how to give it a real A&C feel. They didn't have stereo or TV back
then.
>I figger the next one will have to be re-configurable with mechanical
>pull outs to accommodate cabling changes and feed issues -- assuming the
>world doesn't go to Bluetooth or something.
I'll always stick with a hardwired system, TYVM. Ditto for security
systems.
>I wonder if a rotating base with a swing out back (maybe a simple door
>or doors?) would work? Hmmmm.. I won't even mention trailer hubs... But
>all kidding aside maybe it would work. Or maybe a stable base with
>cabinets -- but the parts that hold electronics rotate out for
>accessibility. Any thoughts?
My first thought was to anchor one side on a pole and rotate the other
side out from the corner on a large caster for PLENTY of room to
access the wiring. Instead, I'll hang it all and have it right in
front of my face. A single "pipe" will route wiring down from there.
>> And there's always that bowsaur in teak I could finish up and give
>> some of the Old Timers (old farts) here heart attacks.
>
>Please no! I can't stand any more problems.
<g>
>And of course I always have at least one Jewel Box and a carving on the
>go. They occupy my time when I run out of real projects.
I've been wanting to get around to carving but I want to put some
furniture together first. More energy would help, and maybe a bit more
business to help fund the wood for new projects. Luckily, I have a
large stock of both jarrah and mahogany now.
--
"Giving every man a vote has no more made men wise and free
than Christianity has made them good." --H. L. Mencken
---
www.diversify.com Complete Website Development
Tom Watson wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 14:25:18 -0400, WillR
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>Too often we build stuff and "expect it to work".
>>
>>The technical aspects of design have always interested me, and answering
>>the question "How do we know the design is correct?" has always been of
>>interest.
>>
>>Many of us who wood work for a hobby also work in other technical
>>occupations so I thought the following article might be of interest. It
>>is about software and quality, but the issues seem to be the same for
>>any design/build process.
>>
>>http://www.baselinemag.com/article2/0,1397,1543588,00.asp
>>
>>When I make something new -- even if it is a simple design I (try to?
>>:-) ) think of these issues. (Along with the usual issues.)
>>
>>Is it pleasing to the eye and touch?
>>Will it work? (Is it functional?)
>>Will it work if someone use it in an unexpected mode? (I have seen
>>people turn stools and chairs over and stand on the rungs...)
>>How will it fail?
>>Will it fail safely.
>>Is the usage obvious?
>>Did the pieces fit -- or did I jury rig something leaving a future
>>safety/repair problem.
>>Are there "safety threats" such as sharp corners, and edges, is the
>>material hazardous, can fingers, or clothes catch in unexpected ways,
>>will it fall over? etc.
>>
>>Anyway -- just some food for thought.
>>
>>This was the article that lead me to finding the previous.
>>http://www.baselinemag.com/article2/0,1397,1783112,00.asp
>
>
>
> I don't really know anything about writing code for money, and the
> only book I ever read on it was "Code Complete", which was a damned
> interesting book, even to an outsider. (That, and "The C Programming
> Language", are my all time favorite computer reads.)(Well, excepting
> maybe "Microserfs", which was pretty damned funny.)
Ahh... Maybe you know who went dumpster diving and why? But I digress. :-)
>
> I do know that furniture, and in particular, Purpose Built Furniture,
> has to subscribe to only two cardinal rules, albeit with applied
> codae.
>
> 1: It must look good.
>
> 2: It must work good.
>
It sounds so darn simple doesn't it?
> Although I have listed them as first and second, there is no actual
> difference in importance between the two, excepting the fact that when
> I was a carpenter I could always achieve 2 but not always 1. I only
> considered myself a cabinetmaker when I could achieve both.
>
> Now for the codae:
>
> Making something work good takes a mechanical mind.
>
> Making something look good takes an artistic mind.
>
They don't often come together -- but when you do see it, and you see a
piece by such a person -- well I get goose bumps when I look at the work
and usually have a silly smile cause it makes me feel good. If I came to
buy that day the "sales person" usually rubs their hands in glee....
cause they know that "gotta have that" look.
> Most designers have both but in varying proportions. One side must be
> let loose and the other educated.
>
> Furniture must work without documentation.
I have used some that needed documentation. In those cases I am still
not sure if I liked it well enough to read a book. So I will agree on
this point -- for now. (It was mostly commercial office furniture --
some nice - some not-so-nice -- but definitely complicated.) The point
is well taken though.
> Something that looks good but doesn't work good will piss everyone
> off.
>
I have even bought a few of those pieces -- ans so has SWMBO. We look a
lot more closely these days when we buy. When we make it ourselves we
now spend a lot more time planning than building -- it pays off.
> Something that works good but doesn't look good is why engineers don't
> usually make it to Broadway.
>
Ouch.
> A perfect piece will tell you where and how to touch it.
Even a great piece does that. :-)
> There is no such thing as a perfect piece.
True I am sure. But I have seen a few pieces lately that made wonder
about there not being a perfect piece.
I mentioned previously a trip to the Royal Ontario Museum. I saw some
great work in the furniture displays. Many pieces gave that "feeling". I
saw many I did not like but could admire the craft work -- and those
pieces may have awed others.
> Furniture lives within rooms that live within houses that live within
> lifestyles that live within dreams.
>
> In order to design properly, you must understand dreams, quickly.
>
Maybe I will never be a great designer then -- I have to think and "feel
the vibes" for quite a while sometimes. But your statement does define
the goal nicely though...
> Perfect design is no more than identifying a need, intuiting the dream
> behind it, and realizing both desires, which are often in competition,
> making it all work in 3D, and staying within a tightly controlled
> budget - both yours and theirs.
>
You would mention budget. A great picture till that moment. LOL
> Simple, really.
>
And pigs fly?
>
>
> Tom Watson - WoodDorker
> tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (email)
> http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/ (website)
All kidding aside you have some great work on your site.
Thank you for the thoughts.
--
Will
Occasional Techno-geek
Robatoy wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> WillR <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>Too often we build stuff and "expect it to work".
>>
>>The technical aspects of design have always interested me, and answering
>>the question "How do we know the design is correct?" has always been of
>>interest.
>
>
> {schnipfered for brevity]
>
> What works for me may not work for others. When I am faced with a
> project for which no blue-print exists, I ask myself (and the client if
> there is one) a ton of questions.
> Then the approach is as follows:
> Draw up a 3D model. Render it, look at it, rotate it, take it apart,
> look at the pieces, rotate them, then ask the following questions:
> What would Steve Jobs do?
> What would Krenov do?
> What would Mies van der Rohe do?
> What would it look like to Klee, Gropius etc.
> Then I'd turn on CBC classical music station, quickly change my mind and
> stick my iPod in my ears instead and stare at the problem till droplets
> of blood appear on my forehead and I get a hankering for some tofu.
> The solution is close when that happens.
>
> Simple, really.
Yes, good thoughts. I too play the CBC classical station at those
moments. It does help with achieving oneness with the universe and hence
illuminating the one path... But (and it's a big but), I detest Tofu --
except a little in my Hot and Sour soup.)
I am curious though -- about the blood drops -- have you ever ruined a
counter top that way?
And as for the the loonies advice (SJ -- never did like dealing with
him...) -- who needs it.
The rest I can work with. LOL
--
Will
Occasional Techno-geek
Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 08:40:25 -0400, the inscrutable WillR
> <[email protected]> spake:
>
>
>
>
>
>>>I rethunk the ent cent after Tawm's last little talk but haven't
>>>penned any mods on paper yet. I'm on Rev.8 in the head now.
>>
>>Ent. Cent's are tough -- because technology changes -- meaning that the
>>the contents can change dimensions every few years. I still don't see
>>how to make the re-configurable enough to justify large expenditures --
>>unless you are part of the nouveau riche class of course. The last two
>>we purchased were junked and we are on our third.
>
>
> I've decided to make mine in 4 pieces, one pedestal for the TV and
> 3 suspended, modular pieces with the CD racks on the sides. The center
> speaker will hang between the rack and the TV. The part I'm chewing on
> is how to give it a real A&C feel. They didn't have stereo or TV back
> then.
>
>
>
>>I figger the next one will have to be re-configurable with mechanical
>>pull outs to accommodate cabling changes and feed issues -- assuming the
>>world doesn't go to Bluetooth or something.
>
>
> I'll always stick with a hardwired system, TYVM. Ditto for security
> systems.
>
>
>
>>I wonder if a rotating base with a swing out back (maybe a simple door
>>or doors?) would work? Hmmmm.. I won't even mention trailer hubs... But
>>all kidding aside maybe it would work. Or maybe a stable base with
>>cabinets -- but the parts that hold electronics rotate out for
>>accessibility. Any thoughts?
>
>
> My first thought was to anchor one side on a pole and rotate the other
> side out from the corner on a large caster for PLENTY of room to
> access the wiring. Instead, I'll hang it all and have it right in
> front of my face. A single "pipe" will route wiring down from there.
I thought about this one before I replied. Your idea appeals to my sense
of "neatness" -- we did this on mainframes (the ceiling to floor pipe),
but as to "purity" in woodworking? I dunno. The efficacy of the idea
will likely win I suspect.
What I thought of, was using the Lazy Susans from Lee Valley and having
the individual cabinets rotate out. Your idea is probably neater, and
almost no cable stretching issues and much less cable flexing. And the
idea of housing curved cabinets simply so they can rotate out? Hmmm --
lottsa work.
The alternative is cabling troughs -- and that might work... But the
pipe looks good. And better and better...
>>>And there's always that bowsaur in teak I could finish up and give
>>>some of the Old Timers (old farts) here heart attacks.
>>
>>Please no! I can't stand any more problems.
>
>
> <g>
>
>
>>And of course I always have at least one Jewel Box and a carving on the
>>go. They occupy my time when I run out of real projects.
>
>
> I've been wanting to get around to carving but I want to put some
> furniture together first. More energy would help, and maybe a bit more
> business to help fund the wood for new projects. Luckily, I have a
> large stock of both jarrah and mahogany now.
Carving is not that difficult if you have a good sense of depth. It
takes time to learn the moves -- but it can be very peaceful. Ideal for
a recluse. (Maybe you should also make an easel and take up painting.)
:-) I got a flexcut starter set and handle - inexpensive and effective.
When I finished the leaf and still had all my fingers, no wounds, and no
blood on the carving -- I bought more knives. Oh -- and a carving glove.
When I bought the extra knives -- the supplier said "I'm impressed, but
you're buying a glove". It's a good investment.
Aside:
I run into lots of people in the Wood business who want their web sites
re-done for commercial ordering. I don't want to do that anymore -- the
marketing work -- ok -- but technical stuff. -- much lower interest level.
You seem to be a MS provider so don't take offense -- but way too many
bugs in IIS and a lot of them are on MS sites already with way too much
work to pull out -- for their wallet to handle it. As soon as I look --
it seems there is too much work and no time for me to go further. No
matter how busy I am -- or ain't.
I do keep up on the latest algorithms for cracking stuff. Shudder! Very
little is secure these days. The multi-core systems and distributed
algorithms will create a nightmare for the security side. The idea of
possible liability as a commerce website developer bothers me.
They can have a link to your site from now on... :-)
--
Will
Occasional Techno-geek
On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 07:06:39 -0700, Larry Jaques
<novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote:
>
>"How about if it just works well?" the WET countered.
>
>(Wannabe English Teacher ;)
"Critics are like eunuchs in a harem; they know how it's done, they've
seen it done every day, but they're unable to do it themselves."
Brendan Behan
(hee, hee, hee....)
Tom Watson - WoodDorker
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/ (website)
On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 19:48:30 -0400, WillR
<[email protected]> wrote:
>That was cruel and called for.
Ah hell, me and C-Less been playing this game for about ten years.
I love the man but just like to show him the reins once in a while.
Tom Watson - WoodDorker
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/ (website)
Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 20:02:32 -0400, the inscrutable WillR
> <[email protected]> spake:
>
>
>>Larry Jaques wrote:
>
> I modified a pair of plans to fit whatever wood I had laying around,
> including the poplar branch food rest.
>
Maybe you should publish a picture. I was thinking of doing one. I have
several "plans" that I would not call plans (dimensions don't add up as
usual) -- but the ideas are certainly there.
>
>
>>>>Furniture must work without documentation.
>>>
>>><g>
>>
>>I see you have been in a cubicle at least once.
>
>
> Almost. I escaped from Palomar Technology in '91, before they merged
> with SKF (the bearing people) and moved us down to Sandy Eggo into a
> cubicled, containerized Corporation company. <shudder> That's when
> I started DIVERSIFY! I've been broke and happy ever since.
>
Congratulations. Sorry that you are running an NPO -- I've done that
too. Unintentionally of course as I am sure is your situation.
>>So are you going to build a temple, design a cathedral or perhaps design
>>and build a new style of Highboy now that you've had "the talk"?
>
>
> Projects inked on the whiteboard are A&C dictionary stand in QSRO,
> modernized A&C entertainment center in mahogany, A&C settle in jarrah,
> and at least a pair of tool cabinets in (maybe) maple.
That should take care of this life and the next in terms of time. :-)
I am adding drawers to my Lathe bench. Doing every drawer in a different
style just for practice. But I am making the drawer (false) fronts of
1/2 Oak so it _looks_ consistent from the outside. Fool the unwary...
First drawer was 1/2 poplar plywood with finger joints. This one (today)
is 3/8 birch with dovetails. Tomorrow? who knows. But the priority is to
clean up the mess. It's just too darn hard to work with a mess in the
shop. It destroys the creativity.
I think for me it will be a coffee table -- and then probably end
tables. I am sure that when I build the coffee table it will be the same
experience as the rest of the in-house projects. I will decide that the
stuff I "matched" is crap and that it has to go go go! Hence the end
tables -- which are
local-box-warehouse-manufacturer-modern-machined-wood style -- inherited
from a young'un that skipped the country and ran off with a foreign guy. LOL
I also have an empty sitting room that houses a lawn chair to be set
outside again shortly, along with end tables and feet rest. Which ill
deprive me of a "temporary" computer station.
These projects cascade you know.
>
> I rethunk the ent cent after Tawm's last little talk but haven't
> penned any mods on paper yet. I'm on Rev.8 in the head now.
Ent. Cent's are tough -- because technology changes -- meaning that the
the contents can change dimensions every few years. I still don't see
how to make the re-configurable enough to justify large expenditures --
unless you are part of the nouveau riche class of course. The last two
we purchased were junked and we are on our third.
I figger the next one will have to be re-configurable with mechanical
pull outs to accommodate cabling changes and feed issues -- assuming the
world doesn't go to Bluetooth or something.
I wonder if a rotating base with a swing out back (maybe a simple door
or doors?) would work? Hmmmm.. I won't even mention trailer hubs... But
all kidding aside maybe it would work. Or maybe a stable base with
cabinets -- but the parts that hold electronics rotate out for
accessibility. Any thoughts?
> And there's always that bowsaur in teak I could finish up and give
> some of the Old Timers (old farts) here heart attacks.
Please no! I can't stand any more problems.
>
And of course I always have at least one Jewel Box and a carving on the
go. They occupy my time when I run out of real projects.
--
Will
Occasional Techno-geek
http://woodwork.pmccl.com
On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 23:02:34 -0400, the inscrutable "your1joker"
<[email protected]> spake:
>I saw an Ent Cent on HGTV last night that had the electronics on a rack on a
>pull out rail which then rotated 90 degrees to get at the wiring. Looked
>like the wires then terminated at a bunch of connectors on the back wall of
>the cabinet. Looked pretty neat.
I saw that, too. But I want the Ent Cent to be movable so I can get
back there to dust and vacuum more often than once a blue moon. I
get tired of coughing up dust buffaloes when working in places like
that.
-------------------------------------------------------
"i" before "e", except after "c", what a weird society.
----
http://diversify.com Dynamic Website Applications