On Sat, 9 Feb 2013 20:12:19 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>[email protected] wrote:
>
>>
>> I tried the drywall mud a couple more times and it is really
>> difficult not sanding too much back off. By the time I get the ridges
>> down the "rough" areas start to show again. (I'm about to give it
>> another shot).
>>
>> Hand sanding is too work intensive so I've been trying my orbital and
>> also my finishing sanders.
>>
>
>You're kidding, right? Hand sanding dry wall compound is too work
>intensive?
I guess he doesn't know what WORK is.
On Thursday, January 24, 2013 10:26:12 PM UTC-5, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Thu, 24 Jan 2013 15:47:11 -0500, "dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote: =
>[email protected] wrote: >> Use the product that is MADE for the job. It =
is called fast-build >> primer surfacer or "sanding primer". > > >Judging f=
rom his photos, I don't think those would even *begin* to smooth >his parti=
cle board. Not without many, many coats at least. Half the roughness appear=
s to be the adhesive left from the contact paper. Sanding that off is near =
to impossible. BTDT, struck out.
No actually the "rough" areas are where there is the least adhesive. Pullin=
g the original vinyl off took with it miceoscopic particles of the particle=
board leaving behind the relatively rough areas. The relativiely smooth ar=
eas actually have more adhesive residue left behind.
The pics where taken on the Macro setting. So I guess it looks worse than i=
t is.
I tried the drywall mud a couple more times and it is really difficult not =
sanding too much back off. By the time I get the ridges down the "rough" ar=
eas start to show again. (I'm about to give it another shot).
Hand sanding is too work intensive so I've been trying my orbital and also =
my finishing sanders.
Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.
"Searcher7" wrote:
> I don't know how many coats I'll need to apply, but how much Zinnser
> or Bondo would I need?
-----------------------------------------------------
Forget the Bondo.
Start with a gallon of Zinnser and play it by ear.
You don't have a glue how much the surface will suck up
until you get into the project.
Lew
"dadiOH" wrote:
> International paint used to make a really great one...thick bodied,
> dried in an hour, sanded to dust. Last time I looked 10 or more
> years ago it was $120+ a gallon.
---------------------------------------------------
You talking about "ROJO"?
If so, last 2 qt "Kit" I bought was about $90 and that was also about
10+
years ago.
Great stuff.
To paraphrase the old Brylcreem commercial, A dab will do ya.
Lew
"dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Lew Hodgett wrote:
"dadiOH" wrote:
> International paint used to make a really great one...thick bodied,
> dried in an hour, sanded to dust. Last time I looked 10 or more
> years ago it was $120+ a gallon.
---------------------------------------------------
Lew Hodgett wrote:
> You talking about "ROJO"?
---------------------------------------------------
"dadiOH" wrote:
> I don't think so. It had just a number (36x?) for a name. It had
> been developed specifically to fill grain in Phillipine mahogany,
> did that *VERY* well. It was one part, had a lot of xylene in it
> (fast dry). I'd sure like to find something that does as well at a
> realistic price.
>
> It is very possible that it is no longer made.
----------------------------------------------
ROJO was developed specifically to fill rusted metal spots after the
spot
had been sandblasted.
Biggest customer was the US Navy.
I used it as a final filler on my boat hull before priming and
painting.
What you are describing is in a totally different world.
The xylene content has probably killed it.
You wouldn't be able to get it here in CA.
The industrial division of I/P is in Houston (They handle ROJO).
Might want to check with them.
Lew
"Mike Marlow"wrote:
> I'm no advocate of high build primers. When they shrink, you can see
> everything they were trying to hide. And... they take a while to
> shrink. Pisses ya right off when two months after you've finished
> the job, scratches and fills start showing through.
-------------------------------------------------
Not a problem with marine high build primers that build about 5 mil
per pass.
Of course your are looking at a different price structure.
Was over $100/gal, 10 years ago.
Lew
On Jan 23, 7:45=A0am, "dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Searcher7wrote:
> > On Dec 22 2012, 10:18 am, "Pat" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>> It depends on the filler I guess but most anything that adheres
> >>> decently could be used. Even drywall mud. Yes, drywall mud. I can
> >>> think of nothing that sands any easier.
>
> >> I have used mud on a couple of projects and it worked well.
>
> > Ok, I tried the mud first. But I don't think it works well. After
> > sanding following the first coat it seemed I was back where I started.
> > Am I sanding too much off?
>
> First coat of what? =A0Filler? =A0Paint?
>
> If filler, you don't make multiple coats...you smear on a coat of suffici=
ent
> thickness with a spatula or broad knife, let it dry and sand off excess
> using nothing coarser than #150 sand paper, finer is better.
>
> If paint; what kind? =A0Oil? =A0Water?
>
> If oil, then you are sanding off too much and/or using too coarse a grit.
>
> If water, then you are a masochist...water base acrylic paint doesn't san=
d,
> it tears and balls up into a mess. =A0OK, you *can* wet sand it with bett=
er
> results but doing so is still masochistic. =A0Even if you *could* sand wa=
ter
> base acrylic, doing so would tend to remove filler if you removed much pa=
int
> as the filler is water soluble and will have melded with the paint.
>
> --
>
> dadiOH
> ____________________________
>
> Winters getting colder? =A0Tired of the rat race?
> Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
> Check it out...http://www.floridaloghouse.net
Ok, let me back track.
I primed a particle board surface after I removed the adhesive vinyl
and sanded the surface. This is what I got:
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll257/Statenislander/Woodworking%20Proje=
cts/Primed2.jpg
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll257/Statenislander/Woodworking%20Proje=
cts/Primed1.jpg
The inconsistency is obviously due to me alternating between using the
heat gun and pulling the vinyl off.
Even sanding afterwards didn't help even the surface:
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll257/Statenislander/Woodworking%20Proje=
cts/SandingPrimer.jpg
So I tried drywall mud as per advice here, but I still didn't get the
consistent surface and now I might just try priming again before
tryign some latex paint in opes it fills in enough to make the surface
smooth.
Thanks.
Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.
On Dec 22 2012, 10:18=A0am, "Pat" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > It depends on the filler I guess but most anything that adheres decentl=
y
> > could be used. =A0Even drywall mud. =A0Yes, drywall mud. =A0I can think=
of
> > nothing that sands any easier.
>
> I have used mud on a couple of projects and it worked well.
Ok, I tried the mud first. But I don't think it works well. After
sanding following the first coat it seemed I was back where I started.
Am I sanding too much off?
Thanks.
Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.
On Sat, 9 Feb 2013 17:23:50 -0500, "John Grossbohlin"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>
>>I tried the drywall mud a couple more times and it is really difficult not
>>sanding too much back off. By the time I get the >ridges down the "rough"
>>areas start to show again. (I'm about to give it another shot).
>
>>Hand sanding is too work intensive so I've been trying my orbital and also
>>my finishing sanders.
>
>The problem is likely the difference in hardness between the joint compound
>and the "wood" and having a relatively soft backer behind the sandpaper on
>the power tool. It's not much different from what happens when sanding fast
>growing pine in that the hard annular rings stand proud of the softer areas
>between them after sanding. It is for this very reason that I use plaster
>of Paris, not drywall compound, as a surfacer/filler. Plaster is harder and
>closer to the "wood" density than is drywall compound. Using a thin coat of
>plaster, a relatively long sanding block, and hand sanding would be the way
>to get a flat smooth surface. Starting out with power sanding and finishing
>by hand is viable too. Yes it might take longer than using power sanding
>alone but how many times do you want do to it? With oil based clear finishes
>this works well as the plaster becomes translucent and disappears. Drywall
>compound does not yield a similar appearance under clear oil finishes in my
>experience as it has more than just plaster with water in it. Under sanded
>primer and paint it yields a very fine finish.
Another good option is 50/50 polyfilla and plaster of paris. Not as
hard and fragile as straight plaster of pasis, but doesn't shrink like
plyfilla alone - or drywall compound. Also cures fast!!!!
>
>An alternative that works reasonably well is to use the drywall compound,
>sand it to nearly finished, apply thinned polyurethane or dewaxed shellac as
>a sanding sealer to firm up the compound, and then finish the sanding by
>hand. This works pretty well under sanded primer and paint but I'd not use
>clear oil finish on it.
>
>John
On 12/21/2012 5:35 PM, Searcher7 wrote:
> Is it ok to use wood filler to skim coat a particle board surface
> before sanding, priming and painting?
Zinsser Bulls Eye 1-2-3 Primer/Sealer
--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://plus.google.com/114902129577517371552/posts
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
On Wed, 23 Jan 2013 14:48:30 -0800 (PST), Searcher7
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Ok, let me back track.
>
>I primed a particle board surface after I removed the adhesive vinyl
>and sanded the surface. This is what I got:
>http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll257/Statenislander/Woodworking%20Projects/Primed2.jpg
>http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll257/Statenislander/Woodworking%20Projects/Primed1.jpg
>
>The inconsistency is obviously due to me alternating between using the
>heat gun and pulling the vinyl off.
>
>Even sanding afterwards didn't help even the surface:
>http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll257/Statenislander/Woodworking%20Projects/SandingPrimer.jpg
>
>So I tried drywall mud as per advice here, but I still didn't get the
>consistent surface and now I might just try priming again before
>tryign some latex paint in opes it fills in enough to make the surface
>smooth.
At this point, new MDF would likely be your easiest and cheapest
solution, Darren. I think you have leftover adhesive on top of the
peeled particleboard. (A real messy deal.)
--
The door of opportunity is marked "PUSH".
--anon
wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I tried the drywall mud a couple more times and it is really difficult not
>sanding too much back off. By the time I get the >ridges down the "rough"
>areas start to show again. (I'm about to give it another shot).
>Hand sanding is too work intensive so I've been trying my orbital and also
>my finishing sanders.
The problem is likely the difference in hardness between the joint compound
and the "wood" and having a relatively soft backer behind the sandpaper on
the power tool. It's not much different from what happens when sanding fast
growing pine in that the hard annular rings stand proud of the softer areas
between them after sanding. It is for this very reason that I use plaster
of Paris, not drywall compound, as a surfacer/filler. Plaster is harder and
closer to the "wood" density than is drywall compound. Using a thin coat of
plaster, a relatively long sanding block, and hand sanding would be the way
to get a flat smooth surface. Starting out with power sanding and finishing
by hand is viable too. Yes it might take longer than using power sanding
alone but how many times do you want do to it? With oil based clear finishes
this works well as the plaster becomes translucent and disappears. Drywall
compound does not yield a similar appearance under clear oil finishes in my
experience as it has more than just plaster with water in it. Under sanded
primer and paint it yields a very fine finish.
An alternative that works reasonably well is to use the drywall compound,
sand it to nearly finished, apply thinned polyurethane or dewaxed shellac as
a sanding sealer to firm up the compound, and then finish the sanding by
hand. This works pretty well under sanded primer and paint but I'd not use
clear oil finish on it.
John
On 12/21/2012 6:35 PM, Searcher7 wrote:
> Is it ok to use wood filler to skim coat a particle board surface
> before sanding, priming and painting?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Darren Harris
> Staten Island, New York.
>
Particle board can finish up nicely. I would use zinnser sanding sealer
50/50 for the first coat, then straight after for 2 or 3 more coats to
build up. Then sand, and you are ready to prime and paint.
"Searcher7" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:04e8801e-b5ef-48a1-809e-9a44ddb74fbd@c28g2000vby.googlegroups.com...
> Is it ok to use wood filler to skim coat a particle board surface
> before sanding, priming and painting?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Darren Harris
> Staten Island, New York.
I'd use bondo before wood filler.
On Jan 22, 10:13=A0pm, Larry Jaques <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Jan 2013 13:25:21 -0800 (PST), Searcher7
>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >On Dec 22 2012, 10:18 am, "Pat" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> > It depends on the filler I guess but most anything that adheres dece=
ntly
> >> > could be used. Even drywall mud. Yes, drywall mud. I can think of
> >> > nothing that sands any easier.
>
> >> I have used mud on a couple of projects and it worked well.
>
> >Ok, I tried the mud first. But I don't think it works well. After
> >sanding following the first coat it seemed I was back where I started.
> >Am I sanding too much off?
>
> No, it either falls out, is blown out, is picked out by the roller, or
> is brushed out by the brush. Great stuff. (Now you see why Bondo was
> suggested.)
Or the most popular finish for particle board, Formica.
On Thu, 24 Jan 2013 14:47:03 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>[email protected] wrote:
>
>> Use the product that is MADE for the job. It is called fast-build
>> primer surfacer or "sanding primer".
>
>Fillers are indeed made for the job. I'm no advocate of high build primers.
>When they shrink, you can see everything they were trying to hide. And...
>they take a while to shrink. Pisses ya right off when two months after
>you've finished the job, scratches and fills start showing through.
The new stuff does not shrink AT ALL. It is a polyester based product
- low VOC - curing, not drying.
On Friday, December 21, 2012 3:35:07 PM UTC-8, Searcher7 wrote:
> Is it ok to use wood filler to skim coat a particle board surface
> before sanding, priming and painting?
Not OK. It's expensive and time consuming, and using particle
board with a preapplied paper layer (MDO, the 'O' is for overlay)
is the better solution.
Particle board is 100% endgrain, it's a finishing time sink without
any redeeming moral or aesthetic value.
On 12/21/12 5:35 PM, Searcher7 wrote:
> Is it ok to use wood filler to skim coat a particle board surface
> before sanding, priming and painting?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Darren Harris
> Staten Island, New York.
>
I don't see that turning out very well.
Shellac based primer would work very well.
Zinsser B-I-N is what I use. If one coat doesn't fill the nooks and
crannies, level-sand the first coat, and the second should be baby-butt
smooth.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
Searcher7 wrote:
> Is it ok to use wood filler to skim coat a particle board surface
> before sanding, priming and painting?
>
Ugh! No.
After your last experience with primer fills I would have thought you'd
already have an idea what direction to go with this.
Wood filler is garbage so drop it from your vocabulary.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Searcher7 wrote:
> Is it ok to use wood filler to skim coat a particle board surface
> before sanding, priming and painting?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Darren Harris
> Staten Island, New York.
It depends on the filler I guess but most anything that adheres decently
could be used. Even drywall mud. Yes, drywall mud. I can think of nothing
that sands any easier.
There are two general types of drywall mud: setting and drying. The setting
type comes in a powder to mix with water; the powder is calcium sulfate -
gypsum (aka "plaster") - and it binds chemically with the water' once dry,
it cannot be dissolved again with water. The drying type comes pre-mixed in
a bucket. It is just fine calcium carbonate with starch as a binder; once
dry, it can be "melted" again with water. The fact that drying type DWM is
absorbent means that anything you use as a top coat will soak into it
further binding it.
The only worry I would have - and it is a minor one - in using water base
DWM on particle board is the fact that particle board and water don't play
well together; however; water base paint is used on particle board all the
time. If the PB swells from DWM the problem is easily solvable by giving
the PB a coat of whatever first.
I note that people have recommended both Zinsser B-I-N and Bondo. Either
would work well too but a bucket of DWM is cheaper and will cover a lot more
than a gallon of B-I-N; it is MUCH cheaper than a gallon of Bondo and will
also cover much more. Bondo is talc with polyester resin as a binder; it
sets when a catalyst (supplied) is mixed with it. I like Bondo and use it
but even though it sands relatively easily it is much harder to sand than
DWM.
Speaking of talc, I often use it mixing it with lacquer as a binder. I
don't generally use it all over, more as a putty to fill dings. Once
painted, it is good inside or out.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out...
http://www.floridaloghouse.net
On Thu, 24 Jan 2013 12:48:25 -0800, "Lew Hodgett"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Mike Marlow"wrote:
>
>> I'm no advocate of high build primers. When they shrink, you can see
>> everything they were trying to hide. And... they take a while to
>> shrink. Pisses ya right off when two months after you've finished
>> the job, scratches and fills start showing through.
>-------------------------------------------------
>Not a problem with marine high build primers that build about 5 mil
>per pass.
>
>Of course your are looking at a different price structure.
>
>Was over $100/gal, 10 years ago.
>
>Lew
>
>
So was good automotive paint - - -
On Sat, 9 Feb 2013 13:25:19 -0800 (PST), [email protected]
wrote:
>On Thursday, January 24, 2013 10:26:12 PM UTC-5, Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Thu, 24 Jan 2013 15:47:11 -0500, "dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote: >[email protected] wrote: >> Use the product that is MADE for the job. It is called fast-build >> primer surfacer or "sanding primer". > > >Judging from his photos, I don't think those would even *begin* to smooth >his particle board. Not without many, many coats at least. Half the roughness appears to be the adhesive left from the contact paper. Sanding that off is near to impossible. BTDT, struck out.
>
>No actually the "rough" areas are where there is the least adhesive. Pulling the original vinyl off took with it miceoscopic particles of the particle board leaving behind the relatively rough areas. The relativiely smooth areas actually have more adhesive residue left behind.
>
>The pics where taken on the Macro setting. So I guess it looks worse than it is.
>
>I tried the drywall mud a couple more times and it is really difficult not sanding too much back off. By the time I get the ridges down the "rough" areas start to show again. (I'm about to give it another shot).
>
>Hand sanding is too work intensive so I've been trying my orbital and also my finishing sanders.
>
>Darren Harris
>Staten Island, New York.
If you are going to use the mud, the only really effective way to sand
it is manually with a samding board. Use half sheet sanding screen -
120 grit. Half sheet long ways.
On Thu, 24 Jan 2013 21:38:46 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>[email protected] wrote:
>
>> I'll admit I never saw his pictures before responding. What the heck
>> is that thing??? It would be less work to rebuild it than to refinish
>> it, I'd say.
>
>Pinball machine - or the likes. He's put a lot of time into patching it
>together and probably would have been better off just getting new particle
>board in the first place, but he's kinda working through it as a project it
>seems. Ultimately, I believe he needs to put new vinyl patterns on it, so
>it has to be pretty smooth. It's far from smooth right now.
Simple caseworks - much simpler to just make it from scratch with
good material. Either standard chipboard, MDF, or plywood.
To make it nice and strong and light, frame it up with a stick frame
made of 1/2" baltic ply, (orwhitewood or pine) and cover it with
doorskin ply or hardboard.
Or cover the darn thing with a good laminate like Arborite , or 1/8"
tempered hardboard (masonite).
On Sat, 9 Feb 2013 13:25:19 -0800 (PST), [email protected]
wrote:
>On Thursday, January 24, 2013 10:26:12 PM UTC-5, Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Thu, 24 Jan 2013 15:47:11 -0500, "dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote: >[email protected] wrote: >> Use the product that is MADE for the job. It is called fast-build >> primer surfacer or "sanding primer". > > >Judging from his photos, I don't think those would even *begin* to smooth >his particle board. Not without many, many coats at least. Half the roughness appears to be the adhesive left from the contact paper. Sanding that off is near to impossible. BTDT, struck out.
>
>No actually the "rough" areas are where there is the least adhesive. Pulling the original vinyl off took with it miceoscopic particles of the particle board leaving behind the relatively rough areas. The relativiely smooth areas actually have more adhesive residue left behind.
>
>The pics where taken on the Macro setting. So I guess it looks worse than it is.
>
>I tried the drywall mud a couple more times and it is really difficult not sanding too much back off. By the time I get the ridges down the "rough" areas start to show again. (I'm about to give it another shot).
>
>Hand sanding is too work intensive so I've been trying my orbital and also my finishing sanders.
Dayam, son, you's a real masochist, ain'tcha? <g>
In my experience, mud disappears far too easily and far too quickly,
so I have now suggested Bondo to you, what, 4 times? <g>
OK, so -don't- listen to me.
Have you tried acetone, lacquer thinner, or denatured alcohol to
remove the adhesive? Once you are down to plain old particle board,
bondo that puppy. Unlike drywall mud, it will sand sanely.
Did you answer why you aren't just replacing the panels wholesale? If
so, I didn't see it. If you do, go with MDF rather than particle
board. It's stronger and more stable.
--
Newman's First Law:
It is useless to put on your brakes when you're upside down.
--Paul Newman
Searcher7 wrote:
> Thanks everyone.
>
> The reason I asked about wood filler was because it seemed the
> cheapest way to cover the entire cabinet, which would be about 50
> square feet.
>
> I don't know how many coats I'll need to apply, but how much Zinnser
> or Bondo would I need?
>
You don't want Bondo. You'll just make way more work for yourself, and for
no good reason. Can't tell you how much Zinnser you'll need. It all
depends on how much the particle board soaks up, and how well it builds up
with subsequent coats. I suppose I'd get a couple of quarts and see how far
that went.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On 12/22/12 4:02 AM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "Searcher7" wrote:
>
>> I don't know how many coats I'll need to apply, but how much Zinnser
>> or Bondo would I need?
>
> -----------------------------------------------------
> Forget the Bondo.
>
> Start with a gallon of Zinnser and play it by ear.
>
> You don't have a glue how much the surface will suck up
> until you get into the project.
>
> Lew
One nice thing about that Zinsser BIN is the first coat does a pretty
good job of sealing thing up.
When I used it to seal the edges of some MDF (nothing sucks up like
mdf!) panels for cabinet doors, one coat was all it took to seal the
edges. The subsequent coat laid on top and sanded very smooth.
BTW, to the original poster, BIN is tintable. Have the paint shop add
some pigment to your can so you can get by with one coat of paint.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
Searcher7 wrote:
> On Dec 22 2012, 10:18 am, "Pat" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> It depends on the filler I guess but most anything that adheres
>>> decently could be used. Even drywall mud. Yes, drywall mud. I can
>>> think of nothing that sands any easier.
>>
>> I have used mud on a couple of projects and it worked well.
>
> Ok, I tried the mud first. But I don't think it works well. After
> sanding following the first coat it seemed I was back where I started.
> Am I sanding too much off?
First coat of what? Filler? Paint?
If filler, you don't make multiple coats...you smear on a coat of sufficient
thickness with a spatula or broad knife, let it dry and sand off excess
using nothing coarser than #150 sand paper, finer is better.
If paint; what kind? Oil? Water?
If oil, then you are sanding off too much and/or using too coarse a grit.
If water, then you are a masochist...water base acrylic paint doesn't sand,
it tears and balls up into a mess. OK, you *can* wet sand it with better
results but doing so is still masochistic. Even if you *could* sand water
base acrylic, doing so would tend to remove filler if you removed much paint
as the filler is water soluble and will have melded with the paint.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net
Searcher7 wrote:
>
> So I tried drywall mud as per advice here, but I still didn't get the
> consistent surface and now I might just try priming again before
> tryign some latex paint in opes it fills in enough to make the surface
> smooth.
>
What do you mean when you say you tried drywall mud? Looking at what you
have in the pictures, you should have put a skim coat on the entire surface
and then used a long board to sand it down smooth, and even. That's what I
would do at this point. Shouldn't take long at all to get it flat and
smooth.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Searcher7 wrote:
> On Jan 23, 7:45 am, "dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Searcher7wrote:
>>> On Dec 22 2012, 10:18 am, "Pat" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> It depends on the filler I guess but most anything that adheres
>>>>> decently could be used. Even drywall mud. Yes, drywall mud. I can
>>>>> think of nothing that sands any easier.
>>
>>>> I have used mud on a couple of projects and it worked well.
>>
>>> Ok, I tried the mud first. But I don't think it works well. After
>>> sanding following the first coat it seemed I was back where I
>>> started. Am I sanding too much off?
>>
>> First coat of what? Filler? Paint?
>>
>> If filler, you don't make multiple coats...you smear on a coat of
>> sufficient thickness with a spatula or broad knife, let it dry and
>> sand off excess using nothing coarser than #150 sand paper, finer is
>> better.
>>
>> If paint; what kind? Oil? Water?
>>
>> If oil, then you are sanding off too much and/or using too coarse a
>> grit.
>>
>> If water, then you are a masochist...water base acrylic paint
>> doesn't sand, it tears and balls up into a mess. OK, you *can* wet
>> sand it with better results but doing so is still masochistic. Even
>> if you *could* sand water base acrylic, doing so would tend to
>> remove filler if you removed much paint as the filler is water
>> soluble and will have melded with the paint.
>>
>> --
>>
>> dadiOH
>> ____________________________
>>
>> Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
>> Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
>> Check it out...http://www.floridaloghouse.net
>
> Ok, let me back track.
>
> I primed a particle board surface after I removed the adhesive vinyl
> and sanded the surface. This is what I got:
> http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll257/Statenislander/Woodworking%20Projects/Primed2.jpg
> http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll257/Statenislander/Woodworking%20Projects/Primed1.jpg
>
> The inconsistency is obviously due to me alternating between using the
> heat gun and pulling the vinyl off.
>
> Even sanding afterwards didn't help even the surface:
> http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll257/Statenislander/Woodworking%20Projects/SandingPrimer.jpg
>
> So I tried drywall mud as per advice here, but I still didn't get the
> consistent surface and now I might just try priming again before
> tryign some latex paint in opes it fills in enough to make the surface
> smooth.
There isn't a snowball's chance in hell of paint filling that surface. And
I have no idea what you mean when you say you "removed the adhesive vinyl".
Personally, I have never seen vinyl glued to particle board; not saying it
doesn't exist, just that I have never seen such. Are you talking about a
user applied material like contact "paper"?
To get a smooth painted surface, two things are necessary...
1. The surface being painted has to be smooth
2. The paint has to be appied evenly and it must "self level". As paint
dries it shrinks to conform to the surface under it; if that surface was
smooth, the paint surface will be too; if that surface was rough, the paint
surface will be too.
There are two ways to get a smooth, paintable surface...
1. sand down all high spots to the level of the lowest low spot
2. fill all the low spots to at least the height of the highest high
spot
Particle board by its nature won't sand to a really smooth surface. It
*WILL* sand to a much smoother one than that evidenced in your photos.
All fillers consist of a finally ground material - usually mineral - mixed
with a binder. What those materials are and their relative proportions
determine how well it fills and how well it sands. Most primers are also
modest fillers because of their relatively high (for paint) mineral content.
International paint used to make a really great one...thick bodied, dried in
an hour, sanded to dust. Last time I looked 10 or more years ago it was
$120+ a gallon.
Drywall mud is calcium carbonate bound with starch. It is cheap, readily
available and - when dry - sands very well. It would be very easy to turn
your moonscape particle board surface into a smooth one with drywall mud...
1. Trowel on a layer covering the entire board
2. Let dry completely
3. Sand with #150 or finer paper. Ideally, you want a thin very layer
left on the highest spots after sanding.
4. Seal the surface
5. Top coat
You could use Bondo rather than drywall mud; however, it is much more
expensive, more difficult to use and apply and harder to sand.
You could use plaster of Paris. It is the same as setting drywall mud and
is also harder to sand (than is drying drywall mud).
You could make your own filler using talc, pumice, whiting or similar as the
filler and clear acrylic, lacquer or varnish as the binder. Talc and
lacquer work well, takes a while to dry.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net
dadiOH wrote:
>
> Drywall mud is calcium carbonate bound with starch. It is cheap,
> readily available and - when dry - sands very well. It would be very
> easy to turn your moonscape particle board surface into a smooth one
> with drywall mud... 1. Trowel on a layer covering the entire board
> 2. Let dry completely
> 3. Sand with #150 or finer paper. Ideally, you want a thin very
> layer left on the highest spots after sanding.
> 4. Seal the surface
> 5. Top coat
>
> You could use Bondo rather than drywall mud; however, it is much more
> expensive, more difficult to use and apply and harder to sand.
I tried to reply to the OP's question yesterday, but I had problems
connecting to eternal-september for a large part of the day. My response
was essentially the same as what you say above, and is my recommendation.
To the OP - try to get just a skim coat of mud on the entire surface, as
flat as you reasonably can. The wider of a spreading device you use, the
better the chance of getting it flat. Likewise, when you knock it down, the
longer of a sanding board you use, the flatter it will be. If you sand
through the mud, to the underlying particle board anywhere, stop. Right
then and there. Just stop. Put on another coat of mud and go at it again.
When it is done properly, you will have a dead flat surface that is
completely covered in a skim coat of mud.
I agree that I would not use autobody fillers. Way too hard to sand out for
this project, and they offer nothing that simple drywall mud does not offer.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "dadiOH" wrote:
>
>> International paint used to make a really great one...thick bodied,
>> dried in an hour, sanded to dust. Last time I looked 10 or more
>> years ago it was $120+ a gallon.
> ---------------------------------------------------
> You talking about "ROJO"?
I don't think so. It had just a number (36x?) for a name. It had been
developed specifically to fill grain in Phillipine mahogany, did that *VERY*
well. It was one part, had a lot of xylene in it (fast dry). I'd sure
like to find something that does as well at a realistic price.
It is very possible that it is no longer made.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net
[email protected] wrote:
> Use the product that is MADE for the job. It is called fast-build
> primer surfacer or "sanding primer".
Fillers are indeed made for the job. I'm no advocate of high build primers.
When they shrink, you can see everything they were trying to hide. And...
they take a while to shrink. Pisses ya right off when two months after
you've finished the job, scratches and fills start showing through.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
[email protected] wrote:
> On Thu, 24 Jan 2013 09:19:11 -0500, "dadiOH" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> Searcher7 wrote:
>>> On Jan 23, 7:45 am, "dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> Searcher7wrote:
>>>>> On Dec 22 2012, 10:18 am, "Pat" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>> It depends on the filler I guess but most anything that adheres
>>>>>>> decently could be used. Even drywall mud. Yes, drywall mud. I
>>>>>>> can think of nothing that sands any easier.
>>>>
>>>>>> I have used mud on a couple of projects and it worked well.
>>>>
>>>>> Ok, I tried the mud first. But I don't think it works well. After
>>>>> sanding following the first coat it seemed I was back where I
>>>>> started. Am I sanding too much off?
>>>>
>>>> First coat of what? Filler? Paint?
>>>>
>>>> If filler, you don't make multiple coats...you smear on a coat of
>>>> sufficient thickness with a spatula or broad knife, let it dry and
>>>> sand off excess using nothing coarser than #150 sand paper, finer
>>>> is better.
>>>>
>>>> If paint; what kind? Oil? Water?
>>>>
>>>> If oil, then you are sanding off too much and/or using too coarse a
>>>> grit.
>>>>
>>>> If water, then you are a masochist...water base acrylic paint
>>>> doesn't sand, it tears and balls up into a mess. OK, you *can* wet
>>>> sand it with better results but doing so is still masochistic. Even
>>>> if you *could* sand water base acrylic, doing so would tend to
>>>> remove filler if you removed much paint as the filler is water
>>>> soluble and will have melded with the paint.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> dadiOH
>>>> ____________________________
>>>>
>>>> Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
>>>> Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
>>>> Check it out...http://www.floridaloghouse.net
>>>
>>> Ok, let me back track.
>>>
>>> I primed a particle board surface after I removed the adhesive vinyl
>>> and sanded the surface. This is what I got:
>>> http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll257/Statenislander/Woodworking%20Projects/Primed2.jpg
>>> http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll257/Statenislander/Woodworking%20Projects/Primed1.jpg
>>>
>>> The inconsistency is obviously due to me alternating between using
>>> the heat gun and pulling the vinyl off.
>>>
>>> Even sanding afterwards didn't help even the surface:
>>> http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll257/Statenislander/Woodworking%20Projects/SandingPrimer.jpg
>>>
>>> So I tried drywall mud as per advice here, but I still didn't get
>>> the consistent surface and now I might just try priming again before
>>> tryign some latex paint in opes it fills in enough to make the
>>> surface smooth.
>>
>> There isn't a snowball's chance in hell of paint filling that
>> surface. And I have no idea what you mean when you say you "removed
>> the adhesive vinyl". Personally, I have never seen vinyl glued to
>> particle board; not saying it doesn't exist, just that I have never
>> seen such. Are you talking about a user applied material like
>> contact "paper"?
>>
>> To get a smooth painted surface, two things are necessary...
>> 1. The surface being painted has to be smooth
>> 2. The paint has to be appied evenly and it must "self level".
>> As paint dries it shrinks to conform to the surface under it; if
>> that surface was smooth, the paint surface will be too; if that
>> surface was rough, the paint surface will be too.
>>
>> There are two ways to get a smooth, paintable surface...
>> 1. sand down all high spots to the level of the lowest low spot
>> 2. fill all the low spots to at least the height of the highest
>> high spot
>>
>> Particle board by its nature won't sand to a really smooth surface.
>> It *WILL* sand to a much smoother one than that evidenced in your
>> photos.
>>
>> All fillers consist of a finally ground material - usually mineral -
>> mixed with a binder. What those materials are and their relative
>> proportions determine how well it fills and how well it sands. Most
>> primers are also modest fillers because of their relatively high
>> (for paint) mineral content. International paint used to make a
>> really great one...thick bodied, dried in an hour, sanded to dust.
>> Last time I looked 10 or more years ago it was $120+ a gallon.
>>
>> Drywall mud is calcium carbonate bound with starch. It is cheap,
>> readily available and - when dry - sands very well. It would be
>> very easy to turn your moonscape particle board surface into a
>> smooth one with drywall mud...
>> 1. Trowel on a layer covering the entire board
>> 2. Let dry completely
>> 3. Sand with #150 or finer paper. Ideally, you want a thin very
>> layer left on the highest spots after sanding.
>> 4. Seal the surface
>> 5. Top coat
>>
>> You could use Bondo rather than drywall mud; however, it is much more
>> expensive, more difficult to use and apply and harder to sand.
>>
>> You could use plaster of Paris. It is the same as setting drywall
>> mud and is also harder to sand (than is drying drywall mud).
>>
>> You could make your own filler using talc, pumice, whiting or
>> similar as the filler and clear acrylic, lacquer or varnish as the
>> binder. Talc and lacquer work well, takes a while to dry.
> Use the product that is MADE for the job. It is called fast-build
> primer surfacer or "sanding primer".
Judging from his photos, I don't think those would even *begin* to smooth
his particle board. Not without many, many coats at least.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net
Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "Mike Marlow"wrote:
>
>> I'm no advocate of high build primers. When they shrink, you can see
>> everything they were trying to hide. And... they take a while to
>> shrink. Pisses ya right off when two months after you've finished
>> the job, scratches and fills start showing through.
> -------------------------------------------------
> Not a problem with marine high build primers that build about 5 mil
> per pass.
>
> Of course your are looking at a different price structure.
>
> Was over $100/gal, 10 years ago.
>
Yeah - I'm not familiar with the marine stuff. I know they use a lot of
different materials that behave differently than standard finishes do. The
urethane primers I use sell for about $100 a gallon these days, and they are
rated for high build, but they also display the shrinkage issues I spoke of.
They work well for getting that dead flat surface as long as you're only
dealing with very minor variations (think wave), but not so well at all for
the kind of surface the OP showed pictures of. That surface just needs
work!
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
[email protected] wrote:
> I'll admit I never saw his pictures before responding. What the heck
> is that thing??? It would be less work to rebuild it than to refinish
> it, I'd say.
Pinball machine - or the likes. He's put a lot of time into patching it
together and probably would have been better off just getting new particle
board in the first place, but he's kinda working through it as a project it
seems. Ultimately, I believe he needs to put new vinyl patterns on it, so
it has to be pretty smooth. It's far from smooth right now.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
[email protected] wrote:
>
> I tried the drywall mud a couple more times and it is really
> difficult not sanding too much back off. By the time I get the ridges
> down the "rough" areas start to show again. (I'm about to give it
> another shot).
>
> Hand sanding is too work intensive so I've been trying my orbital and
> also my finishing sanders.
>
You're kidding, right? Hand sanding dry wall compound is too work
intensive?
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On Tue, 22 Jan 2013 13:25:21 -0800 (PST), Searcher7
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Dec 22 2012, 10:18 am, "Pat" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > It depends on the filler I guess but most anything that adheres decently
>> > could be used. Even drywall mud. Yes, drywall mud. I can think of
>> > nothing that sands any easier.
>>
>> I have used mud on a couple of projects and it worked well.
>
>Ok, I tried the mud first. But I don't think it works well. After
>sanding following the first coat it seemed I was back where I started.
>Am I sanding too much off?
No, it either falls out, is blown out, is picked out by the roller, or
is brushed out by the brush. Great stuff. (Now you see why Bondo was
suggested.)
--
The door of opportunity is marked "PUSH".
--anon
On Thu, 24 Jan 2013 09:19:11 -0500, "dadiOH" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Searcher7 wrote:
>> On Jan 23, 7:45 am, "dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Searcher7wrote:
>>>> On Dec 22 2012, 10:18 am, "Pat" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>> It depends on the filler I guess but most anything that adheres
>>>>>> decently could be used. Even drywall mud. Yes, drywall mud. I can
>>>>>> think of nothing that sands any easier.
>>>
>>>>> I have used mud on a couple of projects and it worked well.
>>>
>>>> Ok, I tried the mud first. But I don't think it works well. After
>>>> sanding following the first coat it seemed I was back where I
>>>> started. Am I sanding too much off?
>>>
>>> First coat of what? Filler? Paint?
>>>
>>> If filler, you don't make multiple coats...you smear on a coat of
>>> sufficient thickness with a spatula or broad knife, let it dry and
>>> sand off excess using nothing coarser than #150 sand paper, finer is
>>> better.
>>>
>>> If paint; what kind? Oil? Water?
>>>
>>> If oil, then you are sanding off too much and/or using too coarse a
>>> grit.
>>>
>>> If water, then you are a masochist...water base acrylic paint
>>> doesn't sand, it tears and balls up into a mess. OK, you *can* wet
>>> sand it with better results but doing so is still masochistic. Even
>>> if you *could* sand water base acrylic, doing so would tend to
>>> remove filler if you removed much paint as the filler is water
>>> soluble and will have melded with the paint.
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> dadiOH
>>> ____________________________
>>>
>>> Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
>>> Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
>>> Check it out...http://www.floridaloghouse.net
>>
>> Ok, let me back track.
>>
>> I primed a particle board surface after I removed the adhesive vinyl
>> and sanded the surface. This is what I got:
>> http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll257/Statenislander/Woodworking%20Projects/Primed2.jpg
>> http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll257/Statenislander/Woodworking%20Projects/Primed1.jpg
>>
>> The inconsistency is obviously due to me alternating between using the
>> heat gun and pulling the vinyl off.
>>
>> Even sanding afterwards didn't help even the surface:
>> http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll257/Statenislander/Woodworking%20Projects/SandingPrimer.jpg
>>
>> So I tried drywall mud as per advice here, but I still didn't get the
>> consistent surface and now I might just try priming again before
>> tryign some latex paint in opes it fills in enough to make the surface
>> smooth.
>
>There isn't a snowball's chance in hell of paint filling that surface. And
>I have no idea what you mean when you say you "removed the adhesive vinyl".
>Personally, I have never seen vinyl glued to particle board; not saying it
>doesn't exist, just that I have never seen such. Are you talking about a
>user applied material like contact "paper"?
>
>To get a smooth painted surface, two things are necessary...
> 1. The surface being painted has to be smooth
> 2. The paint has to be appied evenly and it must "self level". As paint
>dries it shrinks to conform to the surface under it; if that surface was
>smooth, the paint surface will be too; if that surface was rough, the paint
>surface will be too.
>
>There are two ways to get a smooth, paintable surface...
> 1. sand down all high spots to the level of the lowest low spot
> 2. fill all the low spots to at least the height of the highest high
>spot
>
>Particle board by its nature won't sand to a really smooth surface. It
>*WILL* sand to a much smoother one than that evidenced in your photos.
>
>All fillers consist of a finally ground material - usually mineral - mixed
>with a binder. What those materials are and their relative proportions
>determine how well it fills and how well it sands. Most primers are also
>modest fillers because of their relatively high (for paint) mineral content.
>International paint used to make a really great one...thick bodied, dried in
>an hour, sanded to dust. Last time I looked 10 or more years ago it was
>$120+ a gallon.
>
>Drywall mud is calcium carbonate bound with starch. It is cheap, readily
>available and - when dry - sands very well. It would be very easy to turn
>your moonscape particle board surface into a smooth one with drywall mud...
> 1. Trowel on a layer covering the entire board
> 2. Let dry completely
> 3. Sand with #150 or finer paper. Ideally, you want a thin very layer
>left on the highest spots after sanding.
> 4. Seal the surface
> 5. Top coat
>
>You could use Bondo rather than drywall mud; however, it is much more
>expensive, more difficult to use and apply and harder to sand.
>
>You could use plaster of Paris. It is the same as setting drywall mud and
>is also harder to sand (than is drying drywall mud).
>
>You could make your own filler using talc, pumice, whiting or similar as the
>filler and clear acrylic, lacquer or varnish as the binder. Talc and
>lacquer work well, takes a while to dry.
Use the product that is MADE for the job. It is called fast-build
primer surfacer or "sanding primer".
On Thu, 24 Jan 2013 15:47:11 -0500, "dadiOH" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>[email protected] wrote:
>> Use the product that is MADE for the job. It is called fast-build
>> primer surfacer or "sanding primer".
>
>
>Judging from his photos, I don't think those would even *begin* to smooth
>his particle board. Not without many, many coats at least.
Half the roughness appears to be the adhesive left from the contact
paper. Sanding that off is near to impossible. BTDT, struck out.
--
With every experience, you alone are painting your
own canvas, thought by thought, choice by choice.
-- Oprah Winfrey
On Thu, 24 Jan 2013 15:47:11 -0500, "dadiOH" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>[email protected] wrote:
>> On Thu, 24 Jan 2013 09:19:11 -0500, "dadiOH" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Searcher7 wrote:
>>>> On Jan 23, 7:45 am, "dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> Searcher7wrote:
>>>>>> On Dec 22 2012, 10:18 am, "Pat" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>> It depends on the filler I guess but most anything that adheres
>>>>>>>> decently could be used. Even drywall mud. Yes, drywall mud. I
>>>>>>>> can think of nothing that sands any easier.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have used mud on a couple of projects and it worked well.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Ok, I tried the mud first. But I don't think it works well. After
>>>>>> sanding following the first coat it seemed I was back where I
>>>>>> started. Am I sanding too much off?
>>>>>
>>>>> First coat of what? Filler? Paint?
>>>>>
>>>>> If filler, you don't make multiple coats...you smear on a coat of
>>>>> sufficient thickness with a spatula or broad knife, let it dry and
>>>>> sand off excess using nothing coarser than #150 sand paper, finer
>>>>> is better.
>>>>>
>>>>> If paint; what kind? Oil? Water?
>>>>>
>>>>> If oil, then you are sanding off too much and/or using too coarse a
>>>>> grit.
>>>>>
>>>>> If water, then you are a masochist...water base acrylic paint
>>>>> doesn't sand, it tears and balls up into a mess. OK, you *can* wet
>>>>> sand it with better results but doing so is still masochistic. Even
>>>>> if you *could* sand water base acrylic, doing so would tend to
>>>>> remove filler if you removed much paint as the filler is water
>>>>> soluble and will have melded with the paint.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> dadiOH
>>>>> ____________________________
>>>>>
>>>>> Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
>>>>> Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
>>>>> Check it out...http://www.floridaloghouse.net
>>>>
>>>> Ok, let me back track.
>>>>
>>>> I primed a particle board surface after I removed the adhesive vinyl
>>>> and sanded the surface. This is what I got:
>>>> http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll257/Statenislander/Woodworking%20Projects/Primed2.jpg
>>>> http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll257/Statenislander/Woodworking%20Projects/Primed1.jpg
>>>>
>>>> The inconsistency is obviously due to me alternating between using
>>>> the heat gun and pulling the vinyl off.
>>>>
>>>> Even sanding afterwards didn't help even the surface:
>>>> http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll257/Statenislander/Woodworking%20Projects/SandingPrimer.jpg
>>>>
>>>> So I tried drywall mud as per advice here, but I still didn't get
>>>> the consistent surface and now I might just try priming again before
>>>> tryign some latex paint in opes it fills in enough to make the
>>>> surface smooth.
>>>
>>> There isn't a snowball's chance in hell of paint filling that
>>> surface. And I have no idea what you mean when you say you "removed
>>> the adhesive vinyl". Personally, I have never seen vinyl glued to
>>> particle board; not saying it doesn't exist, just that I have never
>>> seen such. Are you talking about a user applied material like
>>> contact "paper"?
>>>
>>> To get a smooth painted surface, two things are necessary...
>>> 1. The surface being painted has to be smooth
>>> 2. The paint has to be appied evenly and it must "self level".
>>> As paint dries it shrinks to conform to the surface under it; if
>>> that surface was smooth, the paint surface will be too; if that
>>> surface was rough, the paint surface will be too.
>>>
>>> There are two ways to get a smooth, paintable surface...
>>> 1. sand down all high spots to the level of the lowest low spot
>>> 2. fill all the low spots to at least the height of the highest
>>> high spot
>>>
>>> Particle board by its nature won't sand to a really smooth surface.
>>> It *WILL* sand to a much smoother one than that evidenced in your
>>> photos.
>>>
>>> All fillers consist of a finally ground material - usually mineral -
>>> mixed with a binder. What those materials are and their relative
>>> proportions determine how well it fills and how well it sands. Most
>>> primers are also modest fillers because of their relatively high
>>> (for paint) mineral content. International paint used to make a
>>> really great one...thick bodied, dried in an hour, sanded to dust.
>>> Last time I looked 10 or more years ago it was $120+ a gallon.
>>>
>>> Drywall mud is calcium carbonate bound with starch. It is cheap,
>>> readily available and - when dry - sands very well. It would be
>>> very easy to turn your moonscape particle board surface into a
>>> smooth one with drywall mud...
>>> 1. Trowel on a layer covering the entire board
>>> 2. Let dry completely
>>> 3. Sand with #150 or finer paper. Ideally, you want a thin very
>>> layer left on the highest spots after sanding.
>>> 4. Seal the surface
>>> 5. Top coat
>>>
>>> You could use Bondo rather than drywall mud; however, it is much more
>>> expensive, more difficult to use and apply and harder to sand.
>>>
>>> You could use plaster of Paris. It is the same as setting drywall
>>> mud and is also harder to sand (than is drying drywall mud).
>>>
>>> You could make your own filler using talc, pumice, whiting or
>>> similar as the filler and clear acrylic, lacquer or varnish as the
>>> binder. Talc and lacquer work well, takes a while to dry.
>
>> Use the product that is MADE for the job. It is called fast-build
>> primer surfacer or "sanding primer".
>
>
>Judging from his photos, I don't think those would even *begin* to smooth
>his particle board. Not without many, many coats at least.
I'll admit I never saw his pictures before responding. What the heck
is that thing??? It would be less work to rebuild it than to refinish
it, I'd say.
>"Searcher7" wrote in message
>news:6d144e81-2089-4ba9-a1eb-c9575b4e5e9a@f25g2000vby.googlegroups.com...
>On Dec 22 2012, 10:18 am, "Pat" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > It depends on the filler I guess but most anything that adheres
>> > decently
>> > could be used. Even drywall mud. Yes, drywall mud. I can think of
>> > nothing that sands any easier.
>>
>> I have used mud on a couple of projects and it worked well.
>Ok, I tried the mud first. But I don't think it works well. After
>sanding following the first coat it seemed I was back where I started.
>Am I sanding too much off?
>
>Thanks.
>
>Darren Harris
>Staten Island, New York.
I cannot find the beginning of this thread so I'm coming into the middle...
new computer, new mail reader...
Anyhow, I often use Plaster of Paris as a filler. It adheres well, fills
well, and disappears under oil based "clear" finishes. It dries fast and
hard also. It works very well on woods with open grain like red oak. I've
even used it on cherry that had a lot of "character" (e.g., knots, punk,
insect holes) as a means to fill but not necessarily hide defects before
putting on myriad coats of oil finish. By the time I was done with 20+ coats
of finish, sanding in between, the wood was consolidated and filled well and
the plaster was invisible.
I'd read that Plaster of Paris was used as a filler in furniture factories
in the past... I found this to be true when I restored an old oak kitchen
table. Keeping with that I refilled it with plaster as part of the
finishing process.
John