On Sat, 09 Dec 2006 17:20:50 GMT, "Toller" <[email protected]> wrote:
>I just changed my 6" jointer blades.
>One was badly worn, one a little worn, one looked like new.
Somebody needs a dial indicator and magnetic base! <G>
As the others have already said, the knives on your jointer weren't
properly aligned. When one stands higher than the others it will end
up doing most of the cutting and show the most wear. Doug is right,
you will be amazed at how much better your jointer works when the
knives are properly aligned. Follow this link to see how it's done
with a dial indicator jig:
http://www.ts-aligner.com/jointer.htm
Let me know if you have any questions.
Ed Bennett
[email protected]
http://www.ts-aligner.com
Toller wrote:
> I just changed my 6" jointer blades.
> One was badly worn, one a little worn, one looked like new.
>
> Is there any possible explanation for this other than the obvious?
> (geez, it seemed to work okay...)
>
> Do I need to get them all sharpened to maintain balance, or can I just get
> the bad one done?
Toller wrote:
> Well actually that's what prompted the question. I set them today the same
> way I did last time. When I saw the wear pattern on the old set I realized
> I must have screwed up last time and checked my work with a dial indicator.
> Everything was within a thousanth! And if I did it right this time, I
> should also have done it right last time. So... I am wondering if there
> could be another cause for the uneven wear.
Check your technique when you are setting the blades. Make sure after
all installation adjustments that you check one more time to make sure
they are all uniform.
Also, since the screws on my Jet are made from lead or something even
softer, I was reluctant to really snug up the holding screws. I had
similar problems with yours as the blades would eventually loosen and
move. They worked fine when sharp, but the more dulled the blades, the
more they moved. But the witness marks on the blades to set the
initial alignment told me what happened.
Replace the screws and snug well. No more problems.
Robert
It is possible that your jointer knives experienced some sloppy heat
treating at the beginning of their lives and the hardness varies
considerably. I have noticed this with the "Regrind" angle sets that I
sell. Some are so hard that they barely take my mark (not tempered).
Some are so soft that the marking raises quite a ridge around each dot
(probably quenched below the critical temperature). You can check the
relative hardness of your knives with one of those automatic center
punches (with the internal spring action). Make a punch in an
inconspicuous area on each knife and compare the size of the divots.
Big divot means soft steel. You can use a small stone to grind down
any ridges you might raise.
It is also possible that the knives weren't aligned properly the first
time. Maybe you've gotten better at it, maybe you were just lucky this
time. The traditional methods rely on a degree of subjective judgment
(which I have always had a hard time mastering). I know that my
results with these methods are rather inconsistent. Sometimes good but
more often not so good. Nothing beats the objectivity of the dial
indicator.
It is possible to use a dial indicator in such a way to convince
yourself that the knives are properly aligned when they really aren't.
Unfortunately, following the directions contained in many magazines and
books will make you vulnerable to such an error. Contrary to popular
belief, you should not use a flat indicator stylus tip moving along the
knife edge to align jointer knives. You should use a round stylus tip
and move it across the edge of the knife at various points. I have a
write-up with a video on my web site about this:
http://www.ts-aligner.com/alignmentmyths.htm
Scroll down to the section entitled: "Using a flat indicator tip to set
jointer knives".
Let me know if you have any questions or if there is anything I can do
to help.
Ed Bennett
[email protected]
http://www.ts-aligner.com
Toller wrote:
> Well actually that's what prompted the question. I set them today the same
> way I did last time. When I saw the wear pattern on the old set I realized
> I must have screwed up last time and checked my work with a dial indicator.
> Everything was within a thousanth! And if I did it right this time, I
> should also have done it right last time. So... I am wondering if there
> could be another cause for the uneven wear.
>
> Or maybe I am just getting better at it.
On Dec 9, 8:34 pm, [email protected] wrote:
Contrary to popular
> belief, you should not use a flat indicator stylus tip moving along the
> knife edge to align jointer knives. You should use a round stylus tip
> and move it across the edge of the knife at various points. I have a
> write-up with a video on my web site about this:
>
> http://www.ts-aligner.com/alignmentmyths.htm
>
> Scroll down to the section entitled: "Using a flat indicator tip to set
> jointer knives".
>
> Let me know if you have any questions or if there is anything I can do
> to help.
>
> Ed Bennett
> [email protected]://www.ts-aligner.com
I like even better using a parallel on the outfeed table extending over
the knife, with a dial indicator bearing on the top of the parallel.
Rotating the cutterhead will lift the knife, and that's what you
measure with the indicator. Doesn't matter what shape the contact
point is, and it doesn't require you to lock the cutterhead at TDC.
John Martin
Cumberland, Maine
Hi John,
That is an excellent idea! Now I'll have to go and create a whole new
video!
Thanks,
Ed Bennett
[email protected]
http://www.ts-aligner.com
John Martin wrote:
> I like even better using a parallel on the outfeed table extending over
> the knife, with a dial indicator bearing on the top of the parallel.
> Rotating the cutterhead will lift the knife, and that's what you
> measure with the indicator. Doesn't matter what shape the contact
> point is, and it doesn't require you to lock the cutterhead at TDC.
>
> John Martin
> Cumberland, Maine
On Dec 11, 12:38 am, "Toller" <[email protected]> wrote:
I don't know what you mean by parallel.
>
> I did it by putting the indicator bearing over the knife and rotating the
> cutterhead.
> As each knife passed it would raise the indicator bearing. What is wrong
> with that?
> It doesn't have to be at TDC, but then you don't know if they are even with
> the outfeed table; just that they are even to each other.-
The parallel is a machinist's parallel. Usually sold in pairs, typical
size might be 6" long, 1" wide, 1/2" thick. Precision ground parallel
and flat on all faces, hardened steel.
Most dial indicators have a convex contact. If you want to accurately
set the jointer knife, you have to make sure that when it is exactly at
TDC it is hitting exactly the lowest point of the contact. Pretty
tough to do unless, as with Ed's jig, you fix the knife at TDC and run
the contact over it.
If you put a parallel in between, you don't even have to make sure that
the indicator is on a wide, flat stable base. You can use it on a
magnetic base. It may not read the same when you set it up on the
other end of the knife, but that doesn't matter. The only thing that
matters is how much the knife lifts the parallel when it rotates.
John Martin
Stoutman wrote:
> "Toller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> Why not sharpen them yourself? You will be surprised how easy it is.
For Toller?
Hi Bill,
I'm not sure what you mean by this. Are you referring to the height
(vertical position) of the indicator stylus tip? Or are you referring
to the horizontal offset between the indicator tip and the knife edge?
I can see how the vertical position is absolutely vital! As you move
horizontally, away from the knife edge, the reading will become
smaller. I was thinking that it was best to be directly over the knife
edge but it doesn't seem so critical. All you are looking to do is
minimize the change in reading as the knife graces the parallel. One
could say that this is the "carry method" without the subjective
element. I like it.
Ed Bennett
[email protected]
http://www.ts-aligner.com
Bill in Detroit wrote:
> Use a mag base to keep the relationship between cutting tip and
> indicator tip constant. If that distance changes, all bets are off.
>
> Bill
>
>
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[email protected] wrote:
> Hi John,
>
> That is an excellent idea! Now I'll have to go and create a whole new
> video!
>
>
>
>
Use a mag base to keep the relationship between cutting tip and
indicator tip constant. If that distance changes, all bets are off.
Bill
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Toller wrote:
>> I like even better using a parallel on the outfeed table extending over
>> the knife, with a dial indicator bearing on the top of the parallel.
>> Rotating the cutterhead will lift the knife, and that's what you
>> measure with the indicator. Doesn't matter what shape the contact
>> point is, and it doesn't require you to lock the cutterhead at TDC.
>>
> I don't know what you mean by parallel.
>
> I did it by putting the indicator bearing over the knife and rotating the
> cutterhead.
> As each knife passed it would raise the indicator bearing. What is wrong
> with that?
The 'parallel' he is talking about is a machinists set up tool. It's a
rectangular bar of steel with precisely parallel edges and faces.
Normally it is also ground very smooth.
Laying the indicator tip against that smooth face is easier than trying
to get it to hit the knife edge. That's all.
You are right, TDC is irrelevant. What IS relevant is that the
relationship (angle and distance) between the cutters and the indicator
tip not change between measurements.
Bill
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"John Martin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> On Dec 9, 8:34 pm, [email protected] wrote:
> Contrary to popular
>> belief, you should not use a flat indicator stylus tip moving along the
>> knife edge to align jointer knives. You should use a round stylus tip
>> and move it across the edge of the knife at various points. I have a
>> write-up with a video on my web site about this:
>>
>> http://www.ts-aligner.com/alignmentmyths.htm
>>
>> Scroll down to the section entitled: "Using a flat indicator tip to set
>> jointer knives".
>>
>> Let me know if you have any questions or if there is anything I can do
>> to help.
>>
>> Ed Bennett
>> [email protected]://www.ts-aligner.com
>
>
> I like even better using a parallel on the outfeed table extending over
> the knife, with a dial indicator bearing on the top of the parallel.
> Rotating the cutterhead will lift the knife, and that's what you
> measure with the indicator. Doesn't matter what shape the contact
> point is, and it doesn't require you to lock the cutterhead at TDC.
>
I don't know what you mean by parallel.
I did it by putting the indicator bearing over the knife and rotating the
cutterhead.
As each knife passed it would raise the indicator bearing. What is wrong
with that?
It doesn't have to be at TDC, but then you don't know if they are even with
the outfeed table; just that they are even to each other.
In article <[email protected]>, "Toller" <[email protected]> wrote:
>I just changed my 6" jointer blades.
>One was badly worn, one a little worn, one looked like new.
Set too high, just right, and too low, respectively.
>
>Is there any possible explanation for this other than the obvious?
Not sure what's "obvious" from your perspective... but different blade heights
seems obvious from mine.
>(geez, it seemed to work okay...)
You'll be amazed at how much better it works when all three knives are doing
the same amount of cutting.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
"B A R R Y" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sat, 09 Dec 2006 22:34:13 GMT, "Toller" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Everything was within a thousanth! And if I did it right this time, I
>>should also have done it right last time. So... I am wondering if there
>>could be another cause for the uneven wear.
>
>
> What are you referencing from?
The outfeed table. Probably best to check the infeed table also, though a
problem there would show up as more wear on one side, wouldn't it?
"B A R R Y" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sat, 09 Dec 2006 17:20:50 GMT, "Toller" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>I just changed my 6" jointer blades.
>>One was badly worn, one a little worn, one looked like new.
>
> Somebody needs a dial indicator and magnetic base! <G>
Well actually that's what prompted the question. I set them today the same
way I did last time. When I saw the wear pattern on the old set I realized
I must have screwed up last time and checked my work with a dial indicator.
Everything was within a thousanth! And if I did it right this time, I
should also have done it right last time. So... I am wondering if there
could be another cause for the uneven wear.
Or maybe I am just getting better at it.
"Toller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>>>I just changed my 6" jointer blades.
>>>One was badly worn, one a little worn, one looked like new.
When I saw the wear pattern on the old set I realized
> I must have screwed up last time and checked my work with a dial
> indicator. Everything was within a thousanth! And if I did it right this
> time, I should also have done it right last time. So... I am wondering if
> there could be another cause for the uneven wear.
>
> Or maybe I am just getting better at it.
>
Could be as simple as having the grinds at somewhat different angles. Makes
the one blade more vulnerable to chipping on a fragile edge than the one
ground properly. Never had the courage to lay a stone on the outfeed and
make that secondary bevel like some books recommend, but that is even less
subject to wear in theory.
Also gets them nuts on with the level of the outfeed without fiddling....
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
> "Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > In article <[email protected]>, "Toller" <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >>I just changed my 6" jointer blades.
> >>One was badly worn, one a little worn, one looked like new.
> >
> > Set too high, just right, and too low, respectively.
> >>
> >>Is there any possible explanation for this other than the obvious?
> >
> > Not sure what's "obvious" from your perspective... but different blade
> > heights
> > seems obvious from mine.
>
> That's only because you're a pedantic bastard! Can't you post a straight
> reply to anyone without swinging your dick in your hands?
>
That wasn't meant to be a slam, but a (weak) attempt at humor. In
retrospect, though, it didn't come out looking that way. To anyone who
was offended, I apologize.
"Toller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I just changed my 6" jointer blades.
> One was badly worn, one a little worn, one looked like new.
>
> Is there any possible explanation for this other than the obvious?
> (geez, it seemed to work okay...)
>
> Do I need to get them all sharpened to maintain balance, or can I just get
> the bad one done?
>
You most likely do not have all of them set at the same height relative to
the out feed table.
Why not sharpen them yourself? You will be surprised how easy it is.
Check out my knife sharpening jig:
http://www.garagewoodworks.com/jigsfixtures.htm
--
Stoutman
www.garagewoodworks.com
"Toller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I just changed my 6" jointer blades.
> One was badly worn, one a little worn, one looked like new.
>
> Is there any possible explanation for this other than the obvious?
> (geez, it seemed to work okay...)
>
> Do I need to get them all sharpened to maintain balance, or can I just get
> the bad one done?
I'm not sure, but it seems to me that the blades were set at different
heights. One probably wasn't touching the wood.
"Toller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I just changed my 6" jointer blades.
> One was badly worn, one a little worn, one looked like new.
>
> Is there any possible explanation for this other than the obvious?
> (geez, it seemed to work okay...)
>
> Do I need to get them all sharpened to maintain balance, or can I just get
> the bad one done?
>
I'd resharpen them all as it should require little more time. You are going
to want to align all of them anyway.
"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, "Toller" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>>I just changed my 6" jointer blades.
>>One was badly worn, one a little worn, one looked like new.
>
> Set too high, just right, and too low, respectively.
>>
>>Is there any possible explanation for this other than the obvious?
>
> Not sure what's "obvious" from your perspective... but different blade
> heights
> seems obvious from mine.
That's only because you're a pedantic bastard! Can't you post a straight
reply to anyone without swinging your dick in your hands?
>>(geez, it seemed to work okay...)
>
> You'll be amazed at how much better it works when all three knives are
> doing
> the same amount of cutting.
>
> --
> Regards,
> Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
>
> It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
On Sat, 09 Dec 2006 22:34:13 GMT, "Toller" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Everything was within a thousanth! And if I did it right this time, I
>should also have done it right last time. So... I am wondering if there
>could be another cause for the uneven wear.
What are you referencing from?
On Sun, 10 Dec 2006 01:31:14 GMT, "Toller" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> What are you referencing from?
>
>The outfeed table. Probably best to check the infeed table also, though a
>problem there would show up as more wear on one side, wouldn't it?
It should.
If all three blades measured identical distances from the outfeed
table, it seems really weird that one can be untouched and yet another
worn out.
Are the bearings on you cutterhead OK? Do you get a lot of vibration
when the machine is running?
I'm stumped...