Questions on weight-closed fencegate

Dan <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> I'm having trouble doing some research on a weight-operated gate closing
> system. It's either because I don't know the right keywords or there just
> isn't much stuff out there.
>
Dan,
I have a non-pulley version of a weight-closed gate. My gate is very
'Williamsburgy', about 48" high and 36" wide, made of 5/4 boards and
with heavy iron strap hinges. The closer is an iron 'cannonball'
about 3-1/2" diameter, hung by an attached eye to a chain. The chain
is affixed to the gate 36" above grade, about 24" from the hinge side
of the gate and the other end to a 4x4 post 16" high sunk vertically
in the ground. Note that the post is offset to the opposite side of
the hingepost from the gate and about 20" away from the fence. IMO a
chain would be more flexible than a cable and have more visual appeal
if you wish not to use a pulley. My gate closes either slowly with no
sound or with a small thump depending on its state of lubrication. It
can open easily a little past 90* to the fence line. There is no
latch, only a stop block on the strike post.
Plan View:

hingepost O//////////////gate////////////////O strikepost
[------16"-----][-----------24"----------+
1 +
1 +
20" +
1 ** weight about 1/3 along the chain from the post
1 +
O chainpost

Have a look here for a chain and ball closer
http://www.williamsburgmarketplace.com/other_template.asp?MGID=430
and here for a picture
http://www.brassgallery.com/product.html?t_q=3579

Good luck,
Dick

Bill Wallace wrote:

> own hinges out of pipe sections. If the barrels of the hinges are cut
> in a bias where they meet, the gate rises slightly as it opens and
> rides back down to level, which closes it when released.

That's pretty clever. I have no idea how I might make use of that idea, but
I'm filing it away.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
Confirmed post number: 16709 Approximate word count: 501270
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

In article <[email protected]>,
Dan <[email protected]> wrote:
>I'm having trouble doing some research on a weight-operated gate closing
>system. It's either because I don't know the right keywords or there just
>isn't much stuff out there.
>
>I just put up a short section of cedar fence, about 44 inches high, with
>a gate, so the dogs won't run into the neighbor's yard every time something
>moves. The gate is about 39 inches and I want to try using a weight on a
>cable to close it instead of a spring. Just to be different, I guess, but
>if it works it wouldn't slam the gate shut like a spring would.

Absent anything else, a weight-driven closer _will_ slam the gate, just
like a spring-loaded one.
> I saw
>something like it on Norm's show some time back. Does anyone know of any
>gates that use a weight on a chain or cable to pull it shut? I'm still
>going to give it a try but maybe I can save myself a little
>experimentation.


Design is simple/trivial. Hang a bracket of some sort on the 'back' side
(the side _away_ from the direction the gate opens towards), of the hinge-
side support post that the gate is hung on, that extends out a few inches.
Put a pulley on it. Tie the cable to the gate, 1/3 or so of the distance
from the hinge to the latch side. Run it through the pulley, and hang a
weight on the other end. Make sure the weight is off the ground, when the
gate is fully closed.

On Wed 23 Jul 2003 09:00:03a, [email protected] (Dick on the James)
wrote in news:[email protected]:

> Dan,
> I have a non-pulley version of a weight-closed gate. My gate is very
> 'Williamsburgy', about 48" high and 36" wide, made of 5/4 boards and
> with heavy iron strap hinges. The closer is an iron 'cannonball'
> about 3-1/2" diameter, hung by an attached eye to a chain. The chain
> is affixed to the gate 36" above grade, about 24" from the hinge side
> of the gate and the other end to a 4x4 post 16" high sunk vertically
>

Thanks loads, Dick, that was the sort of thing I was looking for. I think
I'll go with a slightly modified version of that.

Bill, I liked your idea a lot too and a friend of mine has a larger gate
project coming up. I'll mention it to him. I'm going with the chain and
weight because... well, just because I like the gizmo, I guess. Sometimes
I'm not sure why I do things.

JOAT, thanks for the keywords. I kept using the word "weight" in all the
things I tried and never used the word "closer". I don't know why I
understand some things other people tell me are complicated, and other
times can't see something simple right in front of me.

Rising Butt Hinges, eh? Learn something new every day. We've got a front
door could use a set of those. :-)

Of course, now I have a brand new complication. Got home today and the
cedar 4x4 that will hold the gate has started to split right down the
middle. I swear it wasn't there yesterday. If I put the single-strap hinges
on it that I was planning to, all the weight will be on the wrong side of
the split and it looks to me like it'll crack right in two. I'll either
have to take that section apart, pull the post and replace it or add more
wood to the other side and try it with double-strap hinges. Those are the
the only two options I can think of. If it ain't one thing....

Thanks a lot everybody. I learned stuff!

Dan

I can propose a "different" solution, not a spring or weight, that
works pretty slick. We call it a ramp hinge. It involves making your
own hinges out of pipe sections. If the barrels of the hinges are cut
in a bias where they meet, the gate rises slightly as it opens and
rides back down to level, which closes it when released.

If this is hard to envision, just imagime when you cut the pipe to
make the two hinge barrels you cut it on your miter saw at say 20
degrees.

Just an idea. I've used it on large metal gates for years without a
hitch.


Dan <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> I'm having trouble doing some research on a weight-operated gate closing
> system. It's either because I don't know the right keywords or there just
> isn't much stuff out there.
>
> I just put up a short section of cedar fence, about 44 inches high, with
> a gate, so the dogs won't run into the neighbor's yard every time something
> moves. The gate is about 39 inches and I want to try using a weight on a
> cable to close it instead of a spring. Just to be different, I guess, but
> if it works it wouldn't slam the gate shut like a spring would. I saw
> something like it on Norm's show some time back. Does anyone know of any
> gates that use a weight on a chain or cable to pull it shut? I'm still
> going to give it a try but maybe I can save myself a little
> experimentation.
>
> Thanks,
> Dan

Yes, rising butts, although I never knew they wer comercially produced
and the sizes I apply are much larger "butt" that is exactly like
what we build.

I'll leave all the obvious puns about "rising butts" to your
imagination.

Gnube <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> On 23 Jul 2003 08:45:31 -0700, [email protected] (Bill Wallace) wrote:
>
> >I can propose a "different" solution, not a spring or weight, that
> >works pretty slick. We call it a ramp hinge. It involves making your
> >own hinges out of pipe sections. If the barrels of the hinges are cut
> >in a bias where they meet, the gate rises slightly as it opens and
> >rides back down to level, which closes it when released.
> >
> >If this is hard to envision, just imagime when you cut the pipe to
> >make the two hinge barrels you cut it on your miter saw at say 20
> >degrees.
> >
> >Just an idea. I've used it on large metal gates for years without a
> >hitch.
>
> I'm sure I am missing something here, but then again; isn't this just
> rising butts?
>
> Like these?
> http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp;jsessionid=DYO1GCDC5IPUPCJO2C4CKTQ?id=19256&ts=59071
>
> (Cut and paste into a text proggy if it wraps on you, or go to
> screwfix.com and type "rising butt" into the search box there.)
>
> I bet I missed something here, being a dumb gnube!
>
> Hope it helps.
>
> Take Care,
> Gnube
> {too thick for linux}

IIRC the Norm version involved a separate post set out from the gate. A
rope runs from the gate to the post through a pulley and tied to a brick.
The brick travels up and down the side of the post as the gate is opened and
closed. You do have to contend with the post and the rope that runs out
from the gate and fence a couple of feet.




"Dan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm having trouble doing some research on a weight-operated gate closing
> system. It's either because I don't know the right keywords or there just
> isn't much stuff out there.
>
> I just put up a short section of cedar fence, about 44 inches high, with
> a gate, so the dogs won't run into the neighbor's yard every time
something
> moves. The gate is about 39 inches and I want to try using a weight on a
> cable to close it instead of a spring. Just to be different, I guess, but
> if it works it wouldn't slam the gate shut like a spring would. I saw
> something like it on Norm's show some time back. Does anyone know of any
> gates that use a weight on a chain or cable to pull it shut? I'm still
> going to give it a try but maybe I can save myself a little
> experimentation.
>
> Thanks,
> Dan
>

On 23 Jul 2003 08:45:31 -0700, [email protected] (Bill Wallace) wrote:

>I can propose a "different" solution, not a spring or weight, that
>works pretty slick. We call it a ramp hinge. It involves making your
>own hinges out of pipe sections. If the barrels of the hinges are cut
>in a bias where they meet, the gate rises slightly as it opens and
>rides back down to level, which closes it when released.
>
>If this is hard to envision, just imagime when you cut the pipe to
>make the two hinge barrels you cut it on your miter saw at say 20
>degrees.
>
>Just an idea. I've used it on large metal gates for years without a
>hitch.

I'm sure I am missing something here, but then again; isn't this just
rising butts?

Like these?
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp;jsessionid=DYO1GCDC5IPUPCJO2C4CKTQ?id=19256&ts=59071

(Cut and paste into a text proggy if it wraps on you, or go to
screwfix.com and type "rising butt" into the search box there.)

I bet I missed something here, being a dumb gnube!

Hope it helps.

Take Care,
Gnube
{too thick for linux}

"Dan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm having trouble doing some research on a weight-operated gate closing
> system. It's either because I don't know the right keywords or there just
> isn't much stuff out there.
>
> I just put up a short section of cedar fence, about 44 inches high, with
> a gate, so the dogs won't run into the neighbor's yard every time
something
> moves. The gate is about 39 inches and I want to try using a weight on a
> cable to close it instead of a spring. Just to be different, I guess, but
> if it works it wouldn't slam the gate shut like a spring would. I saw
> something like it on Norm's show some time back. Does anyone know of any
> gates that use a weight on a chain or cable to pull it shut? I'm still
> going to give it a try but maybe I can save myself a little
> experimentation.

Dick has your answer I think. Consider adding a loosely-set pneumatic screen
door closer as a shock absorber to prevent slamming.
-- Ernie

"Dan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm having trouble doing some research on a weight-operated gate closing
> system. It's either because I don't know the right keywords or there just
> isn't much stuff out there.
>
> I just put up a short section of cedar fence, about 44 inches high, with
> a gate, so the dogs won't run into the neighbor's yard every time
something
> moves. The gate is about 39 inches and I want to try using a weight on a
> cable to close it instead of a spring. Just to be different, I guess, but
> if it works it wouldn't slam the gate shut like a spring would. I saw
> something like it on Norm's show some time back. Does anyone know of any
> gates that use a weight on a chain or cable to pull it shut? I'm still
> going to give it a try but maybe I can save myself a little
> experimentation.
>
> Thanks,
> Dan

Dan,

Check out
http://www.williamsburgmarketplace.com/other_template.asp?MGID=430&fromProdu
ctLine=true

If this fails for some reason go to the Colonial Williamsburg Web Site
http://www.history.org/ then "Shop", "For the Garden" and look for the
"Gate Ball And Chain."

In use one end attaches to a post set about even with the hinge post and a
foot and a half or so away from the hinge post, the other end attaches to
the gate about two thirds of the way from the hinges to the latch. The ball
should just about touch the ground when the gate is closed. With a light
gate beware that a deeply set sturdy post (nominal 6x6 wouldn't be
unreasonable) is warranted... the shock of the gate closing would quickly
loosen an undersize and/or poorly set post. With a heavy gate it would close
slower... less shock.

I went in and out of these types of gates every work day and they are not a
problem to deal with--except perhaps if you want it to stay open and don't
have another person to hold it for you!

John