First, let me thank everybody for the input on the wood type I seem to using for this project. Probably southern yellow pine.
I have the 3 boards (~12x84x1.5)ready for glue up. I am not using breadboard ends. My plan is to either use biscuits or some kind of spline for greater strength and alignment. I'm not quite sure here so any input would be appreciated.
I also plan to put boards across the bottom of the top, about every 2 feet or so. Probably overkill, but I do want this to last a long time.
The final product should look sort of like this:
http://www.mortisetenon.com/assets/images/reclaimed-wood-dining-table.jpg
On Wednesday, October 14, 2015 at 2:48:45 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> > In particular the cross pieces between the legs on the bottom. The won't go > > darker even if I apply more stain.
> FWIW I try my hardest to not stain or change the color of wood. The
> wood you are working with tends to be difficult, in the best of
> circumstances, to cover evenly.
> Anyway stains tend to make a piece look a consistent color throughout
> and typically hides the beauty of the wood. But some times the customer
> dictates the finish and this is what you have to contend with.
>
> Where I am going with this is that the location of the pieces and their
> orientation have a lot to do with how lite or dark the wood appears and
> this is especially true with unstained woods. I have shown customers
> that the rail on a cabinet door looks lite while the stile made from the
> same board appears dark. Then that all changes to the opposite
> lite/dark appearance if I turn the door panel 90 degrees.
>
> If your pieces seem to change shades from different viewing angles you
> can't prevent that.
Yep, exactly.
It looks great. Good job. Can't wait to see the whole table asembled.
Sonny
On Sunday, October 18, 2015 at 10:13:54 AM UTC-5, Jim wrote:
> > The final product should look sort of like this:
> >
> > http://www.mortisetenon.com/assets/images/reclaimed-wood-dining-table.jpg
>
> All done. Thank you all again. Here are some pics at the couples house:
>
> https://goo.gl/Vqqb2W
Well, Jim, you failed. Your table was suppose to look like the other (linked) table. Yours looks much better. ^5
It looks great in that dining area.
Sonny
On Wednesday, September 9, 2015 at 10:31:13 AM UTC-4, dadiOH wrote:
> dadiOH wrote:
> > Jim wrote:
> >> First, let me thank everybody for the input on the wood type I seem
> >> to using for this project. Probably southern yellow pine.
> >>
> >> I have the 3 boards (~12x84x1.5)ready for glue up. I am not using
> >> breadboard ends. My plan is to either use biscuits or some kind of
> >> spline for greater strength and alignment. I'm not quite sure here so
> >> any input would be appreciated.
> >
> > If the board edges are true you need nothing other than glue for
> > strength. Biscuits or splines could help with alignment; your skill
> > in gluing together and flatness of boards determine the need for
> > them. If they are not already flat, neither will help as it is
> > unikely you are going to be able to bend the boards to align
> > biscuits/splines.
> > Myself, I would leave them over-thick, glue up and flatten them later.
> >
> >>
> >> I also plan to put boards across the bottom of the top, about every 2
> >> feet or so. Probably overkill, but I do want this to last a long
> >> time.
> >
> > If you do that, be sure to slot the screw holes in the outside boards
> > to accomodate movement. At the most. you would need three boards,
> > two would be plenty.
>
> As an after thought, how are you planning to attach the top to the aprons?
> You need to allow for movement there too.
Not sure yet, I'm thinking of either pocket hole or possibly angle iron. I just think it's too big and heavy for those table top things that go in the slots. What are your thoughts?
On Wednesday, September 9, 2015 at 10:04:33 AM UTC-4, Jim wrote:
> First, let me thank everybody for the input on the wood type I seem to us=
ing for this project. Probably southern yellow pine.
>=20
> I have the 3 boards (~12x84x1.5)ready for glue up. I am not using breadb=
oard ends. My plan is to either use biscuits or some kind of spline for gre=
ater strength and alignment. I'm not quite sure here so any input would be =
appreciated. =20
>=20
> I also plan to put boards across the bottom of the top, about every 2 fee=
t or so. Probably overkill, but I do want this to last a long time.
>=20
> The final product should look sort of like this:
>=20
> http://www.mortisetenon.com/assets/images/reclaimed-wood-dining-table.jpg
Yeah, the edges are pretty good. Doing this on my jointer was a challange =
to say the least. What I ended up doing was, once I got close with the joi=
nter, to but them together with light clamping then find the high spots an=
d hand planing those down. So now I have them all layed out and I put just=
2 clamps on them, at the ends, with light pressiure and put a light below.=
At this point I see nothing coming through so I think they will be nice a=
nd tight with 7 clamps, about one each foot. First I'll do two,then add th=
e third.
The loose tenon idea is interesting. I have a beadlock tool that I've been=
very happy with. I toyed with using it for this application and maybe I'l=
l give it a go. I know the glued joint should hold fine, but I've never wo=
rked with anything this big and heavy and it kind of worries me to not have=
a little something extra to hold it together. The alignment isn't that cr=
itical as once I have it all glued up I'm bringing it down to a guy in town=
that has a giant drum sander and run it through that to get it nice and fl=
at and smooth. For $25, it's worth it.
As for attaching the top I've used these before:
http://www.rokhardware.com/furniture-hardware/knape-vogt-heavy-duty-table-t=
op-fasteners-20-pack.html
But do you think they will hold up to something this heavy if somebody pick=
s up the table from the top edges? I would use GRK screws to put them on.
Jim
On Thursday, September 10, 2015 at 9:55:42 AM UTC-5, Jim wrote:
> At this point I see nothing coming through so I think they will be nice =
and tight with 7 clamps, about one each foot. =20
Do a dry fit and clamp, lightly, with all your clamps. Stagger your clamp=
s, one above, one below, above, below, etc.... making sure your boards rema=
in coplanor, during the clamping process. Clamp on a level surface... you=
don't want your table top to be twisted, from end to end or side to side.
Sonny
On Thursday, September 10, 2015 at 10:55:42 AM UTC-4, Jim wrote:
> On Wednesday, September 9, 2015 at 10:04:33 AM UTC-4, Jim wrote:
> > First, let me thank everybody for the input on the wood type I seem to =
using for this project. Probably southern yellow pine.
> >=20
> > I have the 3 boards (~12x84x1.5)ready for glue up. I am not using brea=
dboard ends. My plan is to either use biscuits or some kind of spline for g=
reater strength and alignment. I'm not quite sure here so any input would b=
e appreciated. =20
> >=20
> > I also plan to put boards across the bottom of the top, about every 2 f=
eet or so. Probably overkill, but I do want this to last a long time.
> >=20
> > The final product should look sort of like this:
> >=20
> > http://www.mortisetenon.com/assets/images/reclaimed-wood-dining-table.j=
pg
>=20
> Yeah, the edges are pretty good. Doing this on my jointer was a challang=
e to say the least. What I ended up doing was, once I got close with the j=
ointer, to but them together with light clamping then find the high spots =
and hand planing those down. So now I have them all layed out and I put ju=
st 2 clamps on them, at the ends, with light pressiure and put a light belo=
w. At this point I see nothing coming through so I think they will be nice=
and tight with 7 clamps, about one each foot. First I'll do two,then add =
the third.
>=20
> The loose tenon idea is interesting. I have a beadlock tool that I've be=
en very happy with. I toyed with using it for this application and maybe I=
'll give it a go. I know the glued joint should hold fine, but I've never =
worked with anything this big and heavy and it kind of worries me to not ha=
ve a little something extra to hold it together. The alignment isn't that =
critical as once I have it all glued up I'm bringing it down to a guy in to=
wn that has a giant drum sander and run it through that to get it nice and =
flat and smooth. For $25, it's worth it.
>=20
> As for attaching the top I've used these before:
>=20
> http://www.rokhardware.com/furniture-hardware/knape-vogt-heavy-duty-table=
-top-fasteners-20-pack.html
>=20
> But do you think they will hold up to something this heavy if somebody pi=
cks up the table from the top edges? I would use GRK screws to put them on=
.
>=20
> Jim
I also meant to ask, these type of table top fastners don't offer and later=
al binding on the aprons at the ends. I have used pocket screws before and=
not had seasonal issues. The table will be in Maine. I also considered u=
sing lengths of angle iron around the edges. What, given the size and age =
of this wood, would these methods present as issues?
On Thursday, September 10, 2015 at 9:55:42 AM UTC-5, Jim wrote:
> As for attaching the top I've used these before:
>
> http://www.rokhardware.com/furniture-hardware/knape-vogt-heavy-duty-table-top-fasteners-20-pack.html
Jim, have you decided what fasteners you'll use, have you bought them, yet?
I might can save you a few dollars. I knew I had these, somewhere. Finally found them.
Don't know the price of Leon's suggested runnerduck.com attachment and the Knape & Vogt is $5.
I have half a case (about 500) each of these. I'll never use them all. I can mail you 25-35 of each, if you think these are appropriate for your application. On the "L" bracket, the longer leg is 1" and the shorter leg is 1/2".
First 3 photos, scroll right: https://www.flickr.com/photos/43836144@N04/21486932012/in/dateposted-public/
Sonny
On Wednesday, October 14, 2015 at 4:39:35 PM UTC-5, Jim wrote:
> I am VERY happy with the top though...
Thumbs up!
I really like reclaimed wood. I'm excited for you, having done lots of reclaimed woodwork, myself.
Your previous link showed me only one pic. I didn't see any tab for accessing other pics on that link. I went to your original post (July 13th) to get the whole project.
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B21fHsS3YlzhbHNCS3QwZnR4aFE&usp=sharing#
Sonny
On Wednesday, September 9, 2015 at 10:04:33 AM UTC-4, Jim wrote:
> First, let me thank everybody for the input on the wood type I seem to using for this project. Probably southern yellow pine.
>
> I have the 3 boards (~12x84x1.5)ready for glue up. I am not using breadboard ends. My plan is to either use biscuits or some kind of spline for greater strength and alignment. I'm not quite sure here so any input would be appreciated.
>
> I also plan to put boards across the bottom of the top, about every 2 feet or so. Probably overkill, but I do want this to last a long time.
>
> The final product should look sort of like this:
>
> http://www.mortisetenon.com/assets/images/reclaimed-wood-dining-table.jpg
All done. Thank you all again. Here are some pics at the couples house:
https://goo.gl/Vqqb2W
On Wednesday, September 9, 2015 at 10:04:33 AM UTC-4, Jim wrote:
> First, let me thank everybody for the input on the wood type I seem to us=
ing for this project. Probably southern yellow pine.
>=20
> I have the 3 boards (~12x84x1.5)ready for glue up. I am not using breadb=
oard ends. My plan is to either use biscuits or some kind of spline for gre=
ater strength and alignment. I'm not quite sure here so any input would be =
appreciated. =20
>=20
> I also plan to put boards across the bottom of the top, about every 2 fee=
t or so. Probably overkill, but I do want this to last a long time.
>=20
> The final product should look sort of like this:
>=20
> http://www.mortisetenon.com/assets/images/reclaimed-wood-dining-table.jpg
Sonny, thank you.
Leon,I could not agree with you more, which is why I am not familiar with u=
sing stains, but the "customer" (son's new bride) wanted it dark, so here I=
am. Yeah some of the irregularities I can live with, it even looks intere=
sting. The main thing I don't like is the way the legs all seem to be 10 s=
hades lighter then the tops and bottoms. I have no idea why. If I apply m=
ore stain to just those sections and wipe it off after 15 min, they don't l=
ook much different. Sort of like they are saturated. I'm going to put po=
ly on them anyway, so I thought what if I used some of that shaded poly on =
just the light sections? Maybe just sand them again and re-try the stain? =
No idea. Hope it isn't so apparent once it's all together
I am VERY happy with the top though...
On 9/10/2015 10:07 AM, Jim wrote:
> On Thursday, September 10, 2015 at 10:55:42 AM UTC-4, Jim wrote:
>> On Wednesday, September 9, 2015 at 10:04:33 AM UTC-4, Jim wrote:
>>> First, let me thank everybody for the input on the wood type I seem to using for this project. Probably southern yellow pine.
>>>
>>> I have the 3 boards (~12x84x1.5)ready for glue up. I am not using breadboard ends. My plan is to either use biscuits or some kind of spline for greater strength and alignment. I'm not quite sure here so any input would be appreciated.
>>>
>>> I also plan to put boards across the bottom of the top, about every 2 feet or so. Probably overkill, but I do want this to last a long time.
>>>
>>> The final product should look sort of like this:
>>>
>>> http://www.mortisetenon.com/assets/images/reclaimed-wood-dining-table.jpg
>>
>> Yeah, the edges are pretty good. Doing this on my jointer was a challange to say the least. What I ended up doing was, once I got close with the jointer, to but them together with light clamping then find the high spots and hand planing those down. So now I have them all layed out and I put just 2 clamps on them, at the ends, with light pressiure and put a light below. At this point I see nothing coming through so I think they will be nice and tight with 7 clamps, about one each foot. First I'll do two,then add the third.
>>
>> The loose tenon idea is interesting. I have a beadlock tool that I've been very happy with. I toyed with using it for this application and maybe I'll give it a go. I know the glued joint should hold fine, but I've never worked with anything this big and heavy and it kind of worries me to not have a little something extra to hold it together. The alignment isn't that critical as once I have it all glued up I'm bringing it down to a guy in town that has a giant drum sander and run it through that to get it nice and flat and smooth. For $25, it's worth it.
>>
>> As for attaching the top I've used these before:
>>
>> http://www.rokhardware.com/furniture-hardware/knape-vogt-heavy-duty-table-top-fasteners-20-pack.html
>>
>> But do you think they will hold up to something this heavy if somebody picks up the table from the top edges? I would use GRK screws to put them on.
>>
>> Jim
>
> I also meant to ask, these type of table top fastners don't offer and lateral binding on the aprons at the ends. I have used pocket screws before and not had seasonal issues. The table will be in Maine. I also considered using lengths of angle iron around the edges. What, given the size and age of this wood, would these methods present as issues?
>
See my answer in the other post.
On 9/10/2015 9:55 AM, Jim wrote:
> On Wednesday, September 9, 2015 at 10:04:33 AM UTC-4, Jim wrote:
>> First, let me thank everybody for the input on the wood type I seem
>> to using for this project. Probably southern yellow pine.
>>
>> I have the 3 boards (~12x84x1.5)ready for glue up. I am not using
>> breadboard ends. My plan is to either use biscuits or some kind of
>> spline for greater strength and alignment. I'm not quite sure here
>> so any input would be appreciated.
>>
>> I also plan to put boards across the bottom of the top, about every
>> 2 feet or so. Probably overkill, but I do want this to last a long
>> time.
>>
>> The final product should look sort of like this:
>>
>> http://www.mortisetenon.com/assets/images/reclaimed-wood-dining-table.jpg
>
>>
> Yeah, the edges are pretty good. Doing this on my jointer was a
> challange to say the least. What I ended up doing was, once I got
> close with the jointer, to but them together with light clamping then
> find the high spots and hand planing those down. So now I have them
> all layed out and I put just 2 clamps on them, at the ends, with
> light pressiure and put a light below. At this point I see nothing
> coming through so I think they will be nice and tight with 7 clamps,
> about one each foot. First I'll do two,then add the third.
Start your clamps in the middle and work towards the ends.
>
> The loose tenon idea is interesting. I have a beadlock tool that
> I've been very happy with. I toyed with using it for this
> application and maybe I'll give it a go. I know the glued joint
> should hold fine, but I've never worked with anything this big and
> heavy and it kind of worries me to not have a little something extra
> to hold it together. The alignment isn't that critical as once I
> have it all glued up I'm bringing it down to a guy in town that has a
> giant drum sander and run it through that to get it nice and flat and
> smooth. For $25, it's worth it.
You really don't need the extra strength, the glue joint properly
prepared, will be stronger than the wood itself.
BUT better alignment to begin with is a lesson in building better
quality. While you are going to have some one use a drum sander to
flatten the top that may not be necessary if you build better to begin
with. Build better/smarter and work less. ;~)
>
> As for attaching the top I've used these before:
>
> http://www.rokhardware.com/furniture-hardware/knape-vogt-heavy-duty-table-top-fasteners-20-pack.html
>
> But do you think they will hold up to something this heavy if
> somebody picks up the table from the top edges? I would use GRK
> screws to put them on.
That would depend on whether you use 4 or 40. Keep in mind that you are
going to have your groves cut to receive them anyway, adding more
fasteners will be simple if necessary. And you absolutely should test
lifting by the top to verify.
A suggestion, your greatest movement is going to be along the width so
if and when the top expands or shrinks any of the fasteners along the
length might become too tight or unattached. It would be better if you
added a couple of supports evenly spaced between the ends of the table,
similar to the end aprons. Attach those supports to your side aprons
and cut groves on those also. Use your fasteners on the apron ends and
mid supports rather along the length of the table. Clear as mud? ;~)
>
> Jim
>
On 10/18/2015 10:13 AM, Jim wrote:
> On Wednesday, September 9, 2015 at 10:04:33 AM UTC-4, Jim wrote:
>> First, let me thank everybody for the input on the wood type I seem to using for this project. Probably southern yellow pine.
>>
>> I have the 3 boards (~12x84x1.5)ready for glue up. I am not using breadboard ends. My plan is to either use biscuits or some kind of spline for greater strength and alignment. I'm not quite sure here so any input would be appreciated.
>>
>> I also plan to put boards across the bottom of the top, about every 2 feet or so. Probably overkill, but I do want this to last a long time.
>>
>> The final product should look sort of like this:
>>
>> http://www.mortisetenon.com/assets/images/reclaimed-wood-dining-table.jpg
>
> All done. Thank you all again. Here are some pics at the couples house:
>
> https://goo.gl/Vqqb2W
>
Looks great. Just needs 4 more chairs. ;~)
On 9/10/2015 9:55 AM, Jim wrote:
> Yeah, the edges are pretty good. Doing this on my jointer was a challange to say the least. What I ended up doing was, once I got close with the jointer, to but them together with light clamping then find the high spots and hand planing those down. So now I have them all layed out and I put just 2 clamps on them, at the ends, with light pressiure and put a light below. At this point I see nothing coming through so I think they will be nice and tight with 7 clamps, about one each foot. First I'll do two,then add the third.
FWIW, here's a similar table top glue-up I did 11 years ago, which may
give you some additional ideas:
https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopArtsCraftsTrestleOriginalDesign200402?noredirect=1#5670411077003951218
For a better explanation of how this was planned, go here and scroll
down to the "Trestle Table" section:
http://www.e-woodshop.net/Projects5.htm
I noticed that you have a jointer:
with that in mind, might also want to pay attention to the following for
increasing your chances of getting a flat glue-up that will save you
tons of cleanup and flattening:
~ Do a layout for your glue-up with all the boards face up, and in the
correct/final order.
Starting from the top, and alternating with chalk/pencil, a "U" (up) on
one side, and a "D" (down) on the opposite side, of _each_ glue joint in
the layout.
Then do a final pass over the jointer, with the above marked edge
against the fence, AND in the appropriate up or down orientation.
The resulting adjacent edges of each joint will now equal 90 degrees,
even if your jointer fence is not precisely set to 90 degrees.
The method takes out any error of the fence being square to the table
(and technique for the most part), takes elegant advantage of the
principle of "complementary angles" to obtain 90 degree joints for
_adjacent boards_ in a glue-up.
Have used this "jointer" method for panel glue-ups, without fail, for
years ... your mileage shouldn't vary.
~ Joint the edges of a couple of tubafours to put your panel on while
gluing so you can keep thing flat (see photo above). This will also let
you easily get clamping pressure from both sides.
~ Have some extra small clamps and assists handy to span the joins on
the ends, as needed, which will also help to keep things flat. These are
worth making out of scraps for just such an operation as you are doing:
https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopJigsFixturesMethods?noredirect=1#5684918993446581314
As you can see from the above, if your joinery is properly prepared, you
plan the operation well, and rehearse before you start, you really don't
need all that many clamps to get a good flat table top glue-up ... and
one that is easy to do the final prep on before finishing.
BTW, biscuits were used for alignment of the various glue-ups that it
took to get the desired table width. The table top weighed in at 106 lbs
and is attached with figure 8 fasteners to the trestle support.
Then years later you can have some Bud's from the wRec over to properly
christen it on a yearly basis:
https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopJustStuff?noredirect=1#5822681330364748930
;)
--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
On 10/14/2015 1:03 PM, Jim wrote:
> On Wednesday, September 9, 2015 at 10:04:33 AM UTC-4, Jim wrote:
>> First, let me thank everybody for the input on the wood type I seem
>> to using for this project. Probably southern yellow pine.
>>
>> I have the 3 boards (~12x84x1.5)ready for glue up. I am not using
>> breadboard ends. My plan is to either use biscuits or some kind of
>> spline for greater strength and alignment. I'm not quite sure here
>> so any input would be appreciated.
>>
>> I also plan to put boards across the bottom of the top, about every
>> 2 feet or so. Probably overkill, but I do want this to last a long
>> time.
>>
>> The final product should look sort of like this:
>>
>> http://www.mortisetenon.com/assets/images/reclaimed-wood-dining-table.jpg
>
>>
> Well, the project is moving along well, should be done and delivered
> this weekend. Turns out the top is so ungodly heavy I don't think I
> need to attach it at all, just have guide boards that fit inside the
> frame. So the top finished great, the base, not so much. Not
> terrible considering it will be a rustic look and may in fact be
> great once all together. That being said this is a picture that sort
> of shows my concern:
>
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XfjdTK6NM5GWyoPai5UPG9Oz3IEa6gc1sQ/view?usp=sharing
>
> The wood for the base is Doug Fir and I did use Charles Neil's prep
> before finishing with MinWax oil based stain. But it still has parts
> that look to me to be a lot lighter then others. In particular the
> cross pieces between the legs on the bottom. The won't go darker
> even if I apply more stain. Maybe I'm being anal as I'm not used to
> this "rustic" look. I'm going to cover it all with a satin finish
> poly for protection, would it make sense to maybe use a darker color
> polyshade on the light parts to blend them or won't that work? I
> think I'll put the whole thing together just to see how it looks
> before I decide.
>
> Oh,I thought this was cool, the cross piece in the bottom has pegs
> that come out of the tenons, and the pieces with the mortises it goes
> through are on aluminum guide pins in the legs so they come out as
> well. This way, with the top off, one could "walk" it through a
> narrow door.
>
> The link in my original post contains all the pics so far. Thanks
> again for all the advice.
>
FWIW I try my hardest to not stain or change the color of wood. The
wood you are working with tends to be difficult, in the best of
circumstances, to cover evenly.
Anyway stains tend to make a piece look a consistent color throughout
and typically hides the beauty of the wood. But some times the customer
dictates the finish and this is what you have to contend with.
Where I am going with this is that the location of the pieces and their
orientation have a lot to do with how lite or dark the wood appears and
this is especially true with unstained woods. I have shown customers
that the rail on a cabinet door looks lite while the stile made from the
same board appears dark. Then that all changes to the opposite
lite/dark appearance if I turn the door panel 90 degrees.
If your pieces seem to change shades from different viewing angles you
can't prevent that.
On 9/10/2015 2:35 PM, John McCoy wrote:
> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> On 9/9/2015 1:22 PM, John McCoy wrote:
>>> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>
>>>> On 9/9/2015 9:04 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>
>>>>> I have the 3 boards (~12x84x1.5)ready for glue up. I am not using
>>>>> breadboard ends. My plan is to either use biscuits or some kind of
>>>>> spline for greater strength and alignment. I'm not quite sure here
>>>>> so any input would be appreciated.
>>>>
>>>> You need nothing for greater strength but a spline or biscuits will
>>>> aid with keeping everything in place when clamping.
>>>
>>> What Leon said. But, you are going to need to clamp this
>>> to get a good glue joint, and with boards that long and
>>> thick, you'll need several stout clamps - I'd think 5 would
>>> be the minimum, and a couple more wouldn't hurt.
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>> If he has good edges, straight ones, clamping pressure can be
>> drastically reduced.
>
> On a 7 foot board, the odds of having an edge straight enough
> to not need clamping are pretty small. On a 1.5" thick
> board, if you're going to bend it at all by clamping, you'll
> need a stout clamping setup.
>
> John
>
I have 25 pieces of maple that are about 10' long and I could glue most
any of them together with out much issue.
If you use straight lumber, as is stated above clamping pressure, is
drastically reduced. Not what you changed it to, "to not need clamping".
No doubt that if you are not working with suitable stock to begin with
stout clamps will help. But again, good edges, straight ones do not
require as much clamping pressure to close the joint. Straight edges
should not be an issue to obtain.
Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> On 9/9/2015 9:04 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>> I have the 3 boards (~12x84x1.5)ready for glue up. I am not using
>> breadboard ends. My plan is to either use biscuits or some kind of
>> spline for greater strength and alignment. I'm not quite sure here so
>> any input would be appreciated.
>
> You need nothing for greater strength but a spline or biscuits will
> aid with keeping everything in place when clamping.
What Leon said. But, you are going to need to clamp this
to get a good glue joint, and with boards that long and
thick, you'll need several stout clamps - I'd think 5 would
be the minimum, and a couple more wouldn't hurt.
John
Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> On 9/9/2015 1:22 PM, John McCoy wrote:
>> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>>> On 9/9/2015 9:04 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>>
>>>> I have the 3 boards (~12x84x1.5)ready for glue up. I am not using
>>>> breadboard ends. My plan is to either use biscuits or some kind of
>>>> spline for greater strength and alignment. I'm not quite sure here
>>>> so any input would be appreciated.
>>>
>>> You need nothing for greater strength but a spline or biscuits will
>>> aid with keeping everything in place when clamping.
>>
>> What Leon said. But, you are going to need to clamp this
>> to get a good glue joint, and with boards that long and
>> thick, you'll need several stout clamps - I'd think 5 would
>> be the minimum, and a couple more wouldn't hurt.
>>
>> John
>>
> If he has good edges, straight ones, clamping pressure can be
> drastically reduced.
On a 7 foot board, the odds of having an edge straight enough
to not need clamping are pretty small. On a 1.5" thick
board, if you're going to bend it at all by clamping, you'll
need a stout clamping setup.
John
On 9/9/2015 1:22 PM, John McCoy wrote:
> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> On 9/9/2015 9:04 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>
>>> I have the 3 boards (~12x84x1.5)ready for glue up. I am not using
>>> breadboard ends. My plan is to either use biscuits or some kind of
>>> spline for greater strength and alignment. I'm not quite sure here so
>>> any input would be appreciated.
>>
>> You need nothing for greater strength but a spline or biscuits will
>> aid with keeping everything in place when clamping.
>
> What Leon said. But, you are going to need to clamp this
> to get a good glue joint, and with boards that long and
> thick, you'll need several stout clamps - I'd think 5 would
> be the minimum, and a couple more wouldn't hurt.
>
> John
>
If he has good edges, straight ones, clamping pressure can be
drastically reduced.
On Wednesday, September 9, 2015 at 10:04:33 AM UTC-4, Jim wrote:
> First, let me thank everybody for the input on the wood type I seem to us=
ing for this project. Probably southern yellow pine.
>=20
> I have the 3 boards (~12x84x1.5)ready for glue up. I am not using breadb=
oard ends. My plan is to either use biscuits or some kind of spline for gre=
ater strength and alignment. I'm not quite sure here so any input would be =
appreciated. =20
>=20
> I also plan to put boards across the bottom of the top, about every 2 fee=
t or so. Probably overkill, but I do want this to last a long time.
>=20
> The final product should look sort of like this:
>=20
> http://www.mortisetenon.com/assets/images/reclaimed-wood-dining-table.jpg
Well, the project is moving along well, should be done and delivered this w=
eekend. Turns out the top is so ungodly heavy I don't think I need to atta=
ch it at all, just have guide boards that fit inside the frame. So the top=
finished great, the base, not so much. Not terrible considering it will b=
e a rustic look and may in fact be great once all together. That being sai=
d this is a picture that sort of shows my concern:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XfjdTK6NM5GWyoPai5UPG9Oz3IEa6gc1sQ/view?us=
p=3Dsharing
The wood for the base is Doug Fir and I did use Charles Neil's prep before =
finishing with MinWax oil based stain. But it still has parts that look to=
me to be a lot lighter then others. In particular the cross pieces betwee=
n the legs on the bottom. The won't go darker even if I apply more stain. =
Maybe I'm being anal as I'm not used to this "rustic" look. I'm going to =
cover it all with a satin finish poly for protection, would it make sense t=
o maybe use a darker color polyshade on the light parts to blend them or wo=
n't that work? I think I'll put the whole thing together just to see how i=
t looks before I decide.
Oh,I thought this was cool, the cross piece in the bottom has pegs that com=
e out of the tenons, and the pieces with the mortises it goes through are o=
n aluminum guide pins in the legs so they come out as well. This way, with=
the top off, one could "walk" it through a narrow door.
The link in my original post contains all the pics so far. Thanks again fo=
r all the advice.
On Wednesday, October 14, 2015 at 4:39:35 PM UTC-5, Jim wrote:
> I'm going to put poly on them anyway, so I thought what if I used some o=
f that shaded poly on just the light sections? Maybe just sand them again =
and re-try the stain? =20
I would not try the staining again. I'd go with toning the finish/poly. =
Do some sample poly toning, first, over a stained sample piece, before com=
mitting to the project. If you are to apply 2 coats of finish, your tonin=
g may need to be darkened more, than if you apply 3 or more less-toned top =
coats.
*The table will be in Maine. Is that too far away for convenient later app=
lications? ....
Why do it now? The pic doesn't show the degree of difference you are speak=
ing of, so we can't see exactly how much difference there is. Why not leav=
e it as is, for now, if the difference isn't too terribly great. Let them=
live with it for a while. If, later, they decide (prefer) it should be da=
rker, then, later, it can be darkened. It'll be (*it may be) just as easy=
to darken it, later, .... to apply more toned coats, later,.... as it is t=
o darken, now. =20
Sonny
On Sunday, October 18, 2015 at 2:57:56 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
> On 10/18/2015 10:13 AM, Jim wrote:
> > On Wednesday, September 9, 2015 at 10:04:33 AM UTC-4, Jim wrote:
> >> First, let me thank everybody for the input on the wood type I seem to using for this project. Probably southern yellow pine.
> >>
> >> I have the 3 boards (~12x84x1.5)ready for glue up. I am not using breadboard ends. My plan is to either use biscuits or some kind of spline for greater strength and alignment. I'm not quite sure here so any input would be appreciated.
> >>
> >> I also plan to put boards across the bottom of the top, about every 2 feet or so. Probably overkill, but I do want this to last a long time.
> >>
> >> The final product should look sort of like this:
> >>
> >> http://www.mortisetenon.com/assets/images/reclaimed-wood-dining-table.jpg
> >
> > All done. Thank you all again. Here are some pics at the couples house:
> >
> > https://goo.gl/Vqqb2W
> >
> Looks great. Just needs 4 more chairs. ;~)
True. But in fact my next project is to build 2 benches for each side...
They need to start making baby's to grow up and eat on it.
On Wednesday, September 9, 2015 at 9:04:33 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wro=
te:
> My plan is to either use biscuits or some kind of spline for greater stre=
ngth and alignment. I'm not quite sure here so any input would be appreciat=
ed.
I vote you use loose tenons, i.e., practice your loose tenon technique. I=
did this on my trestle table: https://www.flickr.com/photos/43836144@N04/1=
9694913720/in/photostream/
=20
>=20
> I also plan to put boards across the bottom of the top, about every 2 fee=
t or so. Probably overkill, but I do want this to last a long time.
Yeah, I think that's overkill, also. On my table, I place a board near eac=
h leg unit, only, not every two feet. My leg units are 83" apart. Rather=
than every 2' apart, I vote you practice installing a few dutchmans, even =
if only on scrap boards. https://www.flickr.com/photos/43836144@N04/206512=
92383/in/dateposted-public/
Sonny
On 9/9/2015 9:04 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> The final product should look sort of like this:
>
> http://www.mortisetenon.com/assets/images/reclaimed-wood-dining-table.jpg
I'm a sucker for that style of table.
Really do like it, thus saved the photo.
Might have to build it myself one of these days, but lord only knows for
who ...
--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
[email protected] wrote:
> First, let me thank everybody for the input on the wood type I seem
> to using for this project. Probably southern yellow pine.
>
> I have the 3 boards (~12x84x1.5)ready for glue up. I am not using
> breadboard ends. My plan is to either use biscuits or some kind of
> spline for greater strength and alignment. I'm not quite sure here so
> any input would be appreciated.
If the board edges are true you need nothing other than glue for strength.
Biscuits or splines could help with alignment; your skill in gluing together
and flatness of boards determine the need for them. If they are not already
flat, neither will help as it is unikely you are going to be able to bend
the boards to align biscuits/splines.
Myself, I would leave them over-thick, glue up and flatten them later.
>
> I also plan to put boards across the bottom of the top, about every 2
> feet or so. Probably overkill, but I do want this to last a long
> time.
If you do that, be sure to slot the screw holes in the outside boards to
accomodate movement. At the most. you would need three boards, two would be
plenty.
dadiOH wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
>> First, let me thank everybody for the input on the wood type I seem
>> to using for this project. Probably southern yellow pine.
>>
>> I have the 3 boards (~12x84x1.5)ready for glue up. I am not using
>> breadboard ends. My plan is to either use biscuits or some kind of
>> spline for greater strength and alignment. I'm not quite sure here so
>> any input would be appreciated.
>
> If the board edges are true you need nothing other than glue for
> strength. Biscuits or splines could help with alignment; your skill
> in gluing together and flatness of boards determine the need for
> them. If they are not already flat, neither will help as it is
> unikely you are going to be able to bend the boards to align
> biscuits/splines.
> Myself, I would leave them over-thick, glue up and flatten them later.
>
>>
>> I also plan to put boards across the bottom of the top, about every 2
>> feet or so. Probably overkill, but I do want this to last a long
>> time.
>
> If you do that, be sure to slot the screw holes in the outside boards
> to accomodate movement. At the most. you would need three boards,
> two would be plenty.
As an after thought, how are you planning to attach the top to the aprons?
You need to allow for movement there too.
Jim wrote:
> On Wednesday, September 9, 2015 at 10:31:13 AM UTC-4, dadiOH wrote:
>> dadiOH wrote:
>>> Jim wrote:
>>>> First, let me thank everybody for the input on the wood type I seem
>>>> to using for this project. Probably southern yellow pine.
>>>>
>>>> I have the 3 boards (~12x84x1.5)ready for glue up. I am not using
>>>> breadboard ends. My plan is to either use biscuits or some kind of
>>>> spline for greater strength and alignment. I'm not quite sure here
>>>> so
>>>> any input would be appreciated.
>>>
>>> If the board edges are true you need nothing other than glue for
>>> strength. Biscuits or splines could help with alignment; your skill
>>> in gluing together and flatness of boards determine the need for
>>> them. If they are not already flat, neither will help as it is
>>> unikely you are going to be able to bend the boards to align
>>> biscuits/splines.
>>> Myself, I would leave them over-thick, glue up and flatten them
>>> later.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I also plan to put boards across the bottom of the top, about
>>>> every 2
>>>> feet or so. Probably overkill, but I do want this to last a long
>>>> time.
>>>
>>> If you do that, be sure to slot the screw holes in the outside
>>> boards
>>> to accomodate movement. At the most. you would need three boards,
>>> two would be plenty.
>>
>> As an after thought, how are you planning to attach the top to the
>> aprons?
>> You need to allow for movement there too.
>
> Not sure yet, I'm thinking of either pocket hole or possibly angle
> iron. I just think it's too big and heavy for those table top things
> that go in the slots. What are your thoughts?
It doesn't much matter as long as you allow for movement. If you plan to
lift the table using the top they need to be pretty stout though.
I usually use something like Leon's first link, attaching them to the table
top with bolts into threaded inserts.
Jim wrote:
> Yeah, the edges are pretty good. Doing this on my jointer was a
> challange to say the least. What I ended up doing was, once I got
> close with the jointer, to but them together with light clamping then
> find the high spots and hand planing those down. So now I have them
> all layed out and I put just 2 clamps on them, at the ends, with
> light pressiure and put a light below. At this point I see nothing
> coming through so I think they will be nice and tight with 7 clamps,
> about one each foot. First I'll do two,then add the third.
In case you don't know this already (and if you are using pipe clamps) it
will be much easier to keep the glue up flat if you alternate the clamps,
top & bottom. It is easy to set pipe clams so that the pressure is not dead
center on the board edges; if it isn't, the glue up will bow. With clamps
both top and bottom, you can check for flat and tweak to flat as needed.
On 9/10/2015 12:48 PM, Swingman wrote:
> On 9/9/2015 9:04 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>
>> The final product should look sort of like this:
>>
>> http://www.mortisetenon.com/assets/images/reclaimed-wood-dining-table.jpg
>
> I'm a sucker for that style of table.
> Really do like it, thus saved the photo.
I saw almost the same table at Joe's Crab Shack. I liked the simple
design, thinking I'd build one for my deck. I kicked my self for not
taking a picture with my cell, so I downloaded this one, as you did.
I've glued up a lot of table tops like this, and just glue and clamps
needed.
When I first started woodworking one of the first things I made was a
large work bench with a butcher block top. I ran splines in each board,
and cut 1/4" plywood strips for the splines. Then I drilled holes every
foot for 1/4" threaded rod. I didn't trust wood glue then, but quickly
learned that was total over kill, glue really does work, and is all
that's needed.
--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com
On 9/10/2015 4:13 PM, Swingman wrote:
> I noticed that you have a jointer:
>
> with that in mind, might also want to pay attention to the following for
> increasing your chances of getting a flat glue-up that will save you
> tons of cleanup and flattening:
>
> ~ Do a layout for your glue-up with all the boards face up, and in the
> correct/final order.
>
> Starting from the top, and alternating with chalk/pencil, a "U" (up) on
> one side, and a "D" (down) on the opposite side, of _each_ glue joint in
> the layout.
>
> Then do a final pass over the jointer, with the above marked edge
> against the fence, AND in the appropriate up or down orientation.
>
> The resulting adjacent edges of each joint will now equal 90 degrees,
> even if your jointer fence is not precisely set to 90 degrees.
>
> The method takes out any error of the fence being square to the table
> (and technique for the most part), takes elegant advantage of the
> principle of "complementary angles" to obtain 90 degree joints for
> _adjacent boards_ in a glue-up.
>
> Have used this "jointer" method for panel glue-ups, without fail, for
> years ... your mileage shouldn't vary.
Yes, me too, with one variation. I number adjoining joints 1, 2, 3,
4... instead of up and down. When I joint, I always do even in, odd
out. That way the boards can easily be re-assembled later the exact
same way you laid them out for looks.
I already tilted the fence to give thin boards more glue surface. Found
that was never really needed, but it works.
--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com
On 09/14/2015 1:18 PM, Jack wrote:
...
> I already tilted the fence to give thin boards more glue surface. Found
> that was never really needed, but it works.
The complementary angles works; would think the angle required to make
any percentage increase in area beyond the miniscule to cause a real
tendency for the joints to want to move during glue up as to be a
pit(proverbial)a(ppendage) unless use splines or similar for registration.
--
On 9/9/2015 9:04 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> First, let me thank everybody for the input on the wood type I seem
> to using for this project. Probably southern yellow pine.
>
> I have the 3 boards (~12x84x1.5)ready for glue up. I am not using
> breadboard ends. My plan is to either use biscuits or some kind of
> spline for greater strength and alignment. I'm not quite sure here so
> any input would be appreciated.
You need nothing for greater strength but a spline or biscuits will aid
with keeping everything in place when clamping.
>
> I also plan to put boards across the bottom of the top, about every 2
> feet or so. Probably overkill, but I do want this to last a long
> time.
This may do harm if not properly done, you have to consider the width of
the top expanding and contracting with humidity changes.
I think the apron will be plenty and you should use elongated holes
for attaching.
>
> The final product should look sort of like this:
>
> http://www.mortisetenon.com/assets/images/reclaimed-wood-dining-table.jpg
>
On 9/9/2015 10:10 AM, Jim wrote:
> On Wednesday, September 9, 2015 at 10:31:13 AM UTC-4, dadiOH wrote:
>> dadiOH wrote:
>>
>> As an after thought, how are you planning to attach the top to the aprons?
>> You need to allow for movement there too.
>
> Not sure yet, I'm thinking of either pocket hole or possibly angle iron. I just think it's too big and heavy for those table top things that go in the slots. What are your thoughts?
>
http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/attachments/f5/79120d1379012179-table-top-attachment-article2-14.jpg
or
http://www.runnerduck.com/bathroom_cabinet/bc_35_attach.jpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SE57ZfN0ANg