I've acquired a antique piano made of mahogany I believe. The
original stain must have faided and sometime during its life a newer
darker stain was applied. I'd like to remove all of the stains as
much as possible and try to refinish it. What exactly are the process
steps that will yield the best results. Without much consultation
with an expert this is what I was thinking but was hoping to get
better advise.
1. Dry scrape and dust off
2. Chemically remove stain with Citristrip, water, and steel wool
3. Sand coarse, then smooth
4. Stain
5. Sand
6. stain
7. Coat with lacquer of some kind.
Currently we are expermenting with water and steel wool. Using water
tends to restain the entire area into a reddish color. Haven't tried
soap and water. Any ideas or thoughts? Any help would be appreciated.
I do not expect that sawdust will help much. The wood chips are used
because they are somewhat abrasive like steel wool, yet they absorb
the shellac. I think that leeching out the old stain with alcohol as
best you can is the best approach. Don't soak the veneer however as
this can start dissolving the glue underneath .Usually these type
pianos, when refinished leaving only the original stain, have a
reddish brown hue which is quite attractive. The final look can be
tested by wetting a stripped area with alcohol-this gives a pretty
accurate rendition of the final appearance-
Regards,
Fritz
J. Clarke wrote:
> Lew Hodgett wrote:
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> I've acquired a antique piano made of mahogany I believe. The
>>> original stain must have faided and sometime during its life a newer
>>> darker stain was applied. I'd like to remove all of the stains as
>>> much as possible and try to refinish it.
>> <snip?
>>
>> STEP 1:
>>
>> Consult with a professional piano refinisher.
>>
>> You might find out the piano is only worth a paint job (hope not)
>
> I think that Step 1 should, as with any antique one is tempted to monkey
> with, be "Get it APPRAISED". While it's not likely that it's super
> valuable, FIND OUT--if it turns out to be some oddball collectable that's
> worth three times the price of a new Steinway then the solution to the
> problem is obvious.
>
> But one should do that _before_ one starts monkeying with the finish.
I think I'd agree with all aforementioned advice, but it sounds like you
may have already been "monkeying" with the finish, so it may be too late
for that. One thought that crosses my mind is to pick an inconspicuous
area and try rubbing it with a small bit of FINE steel wool dipped in
denatured alcohol. I'd guess that part or all of the existing finish is
probably shellac, and this test would confirm it. If so, the alcohol is
probably going to work better than any other chemical stripper.
--
See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad!
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
On May 24, 8:50=A0pm, "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> > I've acquired a antique piano made of mahogany I believe. =A0 The
> > original stain must have faided and sometime during its life a newer
> > darker stain was applied. =A0I'd like to remove all of the stains as
> > much as possible and try to refinish it.
>
> <snip?
>
> STEP 1:
>
> Consult with a professional piano refinisher.
>
> You might find out the piano is only worth a paint job (hope not)
>
> Lew
This is strickly a fun learning project and definately not for a
professional to swallow 3K$ of my wallet. Anyways here is my blog so
that people can few the photos. I'll be happy to share all of my
successes and failures:
http://piano1910.blogspot.com/
On Sun, 24 May 2009 20:38:45 -0700, point.vicente wrote:
> I've acquired a antique piano made of mahogany I believe. The original
> stain must have faided and sometime during its life a newer darker stain
> was applied. I'd like to remove all of the stains as much as possible
> and try to refinish it.
Be very careful with sanding. I once refinished an old upright grand and
found that what I thought was solid wood was a very thin veneer.
--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw
<[email protected]> wrote:
> I've acquired a antique piano made of mahogany I believe. The
> original stain must have faided and sometime during its life a newer
> darker stain was applied. I'd like to remove all of the stains as
> much as possible and try to refinish it.
<snip?
STEP 1:
Consult with a professional piano refinisher.
You might find out the piano is only worth a paint job (hope not)
Lew
On May 25, 6:18=A0am, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Lew Hodgett wrote:
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> I've acquired a antique piano made of mahogany I believe. =A0 The
> >> original stain must have faided and sometime during its life a newer
> >> darker stain was applied. =A0I'd like to remove all of the stains as
> >> much as possible and try to refinish it.
> > <snip?
>
> > STEP 1:
>
> > Consult with a professional piano refinisher.
>
> > You might find out the piano is only worth a paint job (hope not)
>
> I think that Step 1 should, as with any antique one is tempted to monkey
> with, be "Get it APPRAISED". =A0While it's not likely that it's super
> valuable, FIND OUT--if it turns out to be some oddball collectable that's
> worth three times the price of a new Steinway then the solution to the
> problem is obvious.
>
> But one should do that _before_ one starts monkeying with the finish.
Yes, the appraisal was already considered. The piano restorer and
mover appreciates the age but obvisously not a steinway or any hidden
gem worth anything valuable. Even if it worth a more note worthy
brand of piano the best one could get in resell is either a few
hundred dollars or "free if you haul away". I see value in it because
of the sound quality. A decent sound board and keys that are in
tact. With that said I'm continuing with step #2 which is trying to
find a chemical that works best. Last night we tried the citristrip
at Homedepot but i'm thinking there is got to be something stronger
like jasco or something else. We are experimenting with the
detachable front cover to see how good we can get that piece. What
I'm finding out is that a dark dark stain is probably the way to go to
hide the dark spots. It seems like they come out with steel wool but
the stain turns everything red. I'll have to find out if the light
red stain leftover will come out with aggressive sanding. Stay
tuned.....
On May 25, 9:33=A0am, FS <[email protected]> wrote:
> I have restored both uprights and grands in the past along with organs
> and harpsichords. Your pictures do not tell me enough but this appears
> to be an upright from around 1920. It is not worth putting a lot of
> money in it for resale but if you are keeping it, it is probably
> superior in sound and touch to most of the "spinets" (excepting some
> of the big namds) now on the market, if it is reasonably intact and
> properly restored. I would certainly move forward on your project if
> you are keeping it.
> =A0 Most of these instruments were sprayed with a shellac/stain mixture
> in a factory and this finish becomes opaque through the years. What
> lies underneath is often far more attractive than found on a modern
> piano. Usually it is a mahogany veneer, thicker than the modern stuff-
> sometimes as much as 1/16.
> =A0 The standard finish that most shops apply to this type of piano is-
> 1) Strip the old finish (as Steve indicated) with alcohol (shellac
> thinner) and steel wool. Woods chips also help a lot to sop op the
> mess. Plastic putty knives work well on the flat surfaces,
> toothbrushes on the mouldings.
> 2) Still wool the wood with more alcohol to remove any uneveness.
> 3) Restain-try a light stain and move to dark if you want.
> 4) Apply 2 coats of lacquer sanding sealer and sand between coats with
> 400 (or use the instructions on the can)
> 5) Apply 3 coats of lacquer, using 0000 steel wool between coats.
> 6) If you want a real shine try some of the polishing methods such as
> rotten stone or micro-mesh. This usually is reserved for the black
> Steinway finish however and it is a lot of work, probably not needed.
>
> I did not use water based lacquer when I was doing this type of work
> (it did not exist) but I expect it will work well based upon my
> experience building violin cabinets.
>
> Basilisk's comments should be heeded however do not be easily deterred
> from restoring. Uprights, unlike grands, usually do not have cracked
> pin-blocks since they are mounted to the wooden frame and do not
> circulate air as well. If the pins are worn in their holes, oversize
> pins can be purchased from American Piano Supply. Usually if every 3rd
> note in the base is out of tune after tuning it is a hint of a cracked
> pin block.
>
> Email me if you have further questions above and beyond the finish
> (e.g. keys, hammers etc). You probably will end up with a better piano
> than you can purchase new.
>
> Cheers
> Fritz
Thank you for the reply. I knew there would be someone who knew what
they were talking about. Since the piano was in tune when I first saw
it and even after the move unchanged. This indicates that the pin
block is actually in pretty good shape. As far as I can tell the
sound board and pin block are free from cracks. If I can play a tune
on the piano I'm not going to touch the pins at this point. Just the
cabinent is all I'm going to tackle at the moment. The red is hard to
absorb which is why i'm thinking of going with the darker finish.
Wood chips might work absorbing some of the finish i'll have to give
that a try. How about sawdust? This is a project that might take a
couple of months. I'll post more pictures in time but this is all I
have at the moment from my new blog.
http://piano1910.blogspot.com/
I have restored both uprights and grands in the past along with organs
and harpsichords. Your pictures do not tell me enough but this appears
to be an upright from around 1920. It is not worth putting a lot of
money in it for resale but if you are keeping it, it is probably
superior in sound and touch to most of the "spinets" (excepting some
of the big namds) now on the market, if it is reasonably intact and
properly restored. I would certainly move forward on your project if
you are keeping it.
Most of these instruments were sprayed with a shellac/stain mixture
in a factory and this finish becomes opaque through the years. What
lies underneath is often far more attractive than found on a modern
piano. Usually it is a mahogany veneer, thicker than the modern stuff-
sometimes as much as 1/16.
The standard finish that most shops apply to this type of piano is-
1) Strip the old finish (as Steve indicated) with alcohol (shellac
thinner) and steel wool. Woods chips also help a lot to sop op the
mess. Plastic putty knives work well on the flat surfaces,
toothbrushes on the mouldings.
2) Still wool the wood with more alcohol to remove any uneveness.
3) Restain-try a light stain and move to dark if you want.
4) Apply 2 coats of lacquer sanding sealer and sand between coats with
400 (or use the instructions on the can)
5) Apply 3 coats of lacquer, using 0000 steel wool between coats.
6) If you want a real shine try some of the polishing methods such as
rotten stone or micro-mesh. This usually is reserved for the black
Steinway finish however and it is a lot of work, probably not needed.
I did not use water based lacquer when I was doing this type of work
(it did not exist) but I expect it will work well based upon my
experience building violin cabinets.
Basilisk's comments should be heeded however do not be easily deterred
from restoring. Uprights, unlike grands, usually do not have cracked
pin-blocks since they are mounted to the wooden frame and do not
circulate air as well. If the pins are worn in their holes, oversize
pins can be purchased from American Piano Supply. Usually if every 3rd
note in the base is out of tune after tuning it is a hint of a cracked
pin block.
Email me if you have further questions above and beyond the finish
(e.g. keys, hammers etc). You probably will end up with a better piano
than you can purchase new.
Cheers
Fritz
About 100 years ago in a prior life I did some piano refinishing. We
would dissambled the entire unit. Placed the wood parts in a 10'
square galvanized floor pan about a foot deep. We used 5 gallon pails
of Jasco, wore rubber waders, gloves and resperators. Wire brushes,
sharpened putty knifes, paint scrapers, screw drives, etc.
I do expect to get liver cancer at some point in the future but have
survived so far. I assume my good friends from south of the border who
also worked as labors in the shop and wouldn't wear any protective
gear have already passed.
I was actually hired to work there to run a machine, designed and
built by my friend that was a an air actuated, 10 headed drill made
for drilling roped brass tubes for making brass beds. I put the
machine through it's paces, made all the patterns and set up all the
pre-set cutoff table and production methods. Once again, manned by my
spanish speaking friends once I was done and they cranked out beds
sold by Sears and others.
On May 24, 8:38=A0pm, [email protected] wrote:
> I've acquired a antique piano made of mahogany I believe. =A0 The
> original stain must have faided and sometime during its life a newer
> darker stain was applied. =A0I'd like to remove all of the stains as
> much as possible and try to refinish it. =A0What exactly are the process
> steps that will yield the best results. =A0Without much consultation
> with an expert this is what I was thinking but was hoping to get
> better advise.
>
> 1. Dry scrape and dust off
> 2. Chemically remove stain with Citristrip, water, and steel wool
> 3. Sand coarse, then smooth
> 4. Stain
> 5. Sand
> 6. stain
> 7. Coat with lacquer of some kind.
>
> Currently we are expermenting with water and steel wool. =A0Using water
> tends to restain the entire area into a reddish color. =A0Haven't tried
> soap and water. =A0Any ideas or thoughts? =A0Any help would be appreciate=
d.
[email protected] wrote:
> On May 24, 8:50 pm, "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> I've acquired a antique piano made of mahogany I believe. The
>>> original stain must have faided and sometime during its life a newer
>>> darker stain was applied. I'd like to remove all of the stains as
>>> much as possible and try to refinish it.
>>
>> <snip?
>>
>> STEP 1:
>>
>> Consult with a professional piano refinisher.
>>
>> You might find out the piano is only worth a paint job (hope not)
>>
>> Lew
>
> This is strickly a fun learning project and definately not for a
> professional to swallow 3K$ of my wallet. Anyways here is my blog so
> that people can few the photos. I'll be happy to share all of my
> successes and failures:
>
> http://piano1910.blogspot.com/
Eeek! An upright! About the only rational and practical thing you can do is
gut the innards and turn it into a liquor storage cabinet.
That said, refinishing the monster is equivalent to giving a permanent to a
beaver. A lot of self-satisfaction for you, but totally unappreciated, even
by other beavers.
Good luck.
Lew Hodgett wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I've acquired a antique piano made of mahogany I believe. The
>> original stain must have faided and sometime during its life a newer
>> darker stain was applied. I'd like to remove all of the stains as
>> much as possible and try to refinish it.
> <snip?
>
> STEP 1:
>
> Consult with a professional piano refinisher.
>
> You might find out the piano is only worth a paint job (hope not)
I think that Step 1 should, as with any antique one is tempted to monkey
with, be "Get it APPRAISED". While it's not likely that it's super
valuable, FIND OUT--if it turns out to be some oddball collectable that's
worth three times the price of a new Steinway then the solution to the
problem is obvious.
But one should do that _before_ one starts monkeying with the finish.
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I've acquired a antique piano made of mahogany I believe. The
> original stain must have faided and sometime during its life a newer
> darker stain was applied. I'd like to remove all of the stains as
> much as possible and try to refinish it. What exactly are the process
> steps that will yield the best results. Without much consultation
> with an expert this is what I was thinking but was hoping to get
> better advise.
>
> 1. Dry scrape and dust off
> 2. Chemically remove stain with Citristrip, water, and steel wool
> 3. Sand coarse, then smooth
> 4. Stain
> 5. Sand
> 6. stain
> 7. Coat with lacquer of some kind.
>
> Currently we are expermenting with water and steel wool. Using water
> tends to restain the entire area into a reddish color. Haven't tried
> soap and water. Any ideas or thoughts? Any help would be appreciated.
When a piano gets beyond 75 years of age the wood in the pin block loses its
elasticity and it will no longer stay in tune for an extended period of
time,
or sometimes even at all.
No sane person will attempt to change the pin block in an upright, this is
major
construction. and the expense never stops.
It may be worth it as a labor of love or an educational experience, but
not just to save an old piano.
With that said, I have a 107 year old Baldwin that is a beautiful piece of
furniture
and it fulfills this role very nicely.
I assume that the piano is at least partially veneered, most were.
Whatever you do be aware that the veneer on most pianos is very thin, so you
can do no
course sanding or you will go through the veneer DAMHIKT. The stain used on
the piano
most likely darkened the entire thickness of veneer.
The best use for the come and get for moving pianos is to gently remove the
casing with a
sledge hammer, recover the spruce sound board for other uses and throw the
rest away.
None of this is what you wanted to read but my 2 cents worth.
basilisk