I purchased and Akeda jig a few months ago (lots of raves on the new
group). I have begun using it to build a bunch of drawers for
kitchen cabinets. My first set of 10 drawers came out perfect. They
were made from solid birch. I was not so lucky on the second set of
drawers. The sides are 1/2" baltic birch and the front and back are
3/4" baltic birch. A front board will finish the drawers.
I made some tests to establish the height of the bit and got it "just
right" after a couple of tries. I then proceeded to do the half blind
joints for the first 5 drawers. I cut the tails in the sides for all
five drawers. Then I switched to the pins on the five sets of front
and back pieces for the drawers. I was very disappointed to find that
the joints did not fit correctly. The tails do not mate tightly to
the pins - there is a 1/16 inch gap; i.e., the is a gap holding the
two pieces apart by 1/16 inch.
I checked the pieces with my test pieces. The tails in the drawer
sides fit perfectly with the pins in my test pieces. Something went
wrong when I cut the pins on the front and back pieces. My first
thought was that the router bit dropped or the router depth changed.
But, it would have happened just as I changed from tails to pins -
too much of a coincidence! The guides are all at the same height and
are in there tight.
Anybody got suggestions on what I did wrong?
Len
I hadn't thought of the downward pull. The bit is still sharp and I
made about 3 or 4 passes to route the joints. I will look at the bit
height tonight.
Thanks
Len
-------
charlieb wrote:
> Swingman wrote:
> >
> > I do NOT own an Akeda, but a Leigh instead, and have cut countless half
> > blind dovetails over the years.
> >
> > That said, it would appear that the same "depth of cut" issue is in play for
> > cutting the pins of half blind dovetails with either jig:
> >
> > With the Leigh, "depth of cut" is the deciding factor when cutting pins on
> > whether the half blind dovetails joint is loose or tight ... sounds like
> > your bit may have slipped.
> >
>
> Late to another thread but my vote is for Swingman's answer.
>
> Remember, you're using 1/4" diameter shank bitS (unless you got
> the 8mm shanks - and collet) and the shanks are longer than regular
> router bits in order to work in any of the dovetail jigs. And the
> dovetail bit wants to pull DOWN as it cuts.
>
> The other possible source, or contributing factor is ply vs solid
> wood. Ply has a fair amount of glue which tends to dull cutting
> edges faster than most woods. Dull edges mean more downward
> force. And the faster you try and make the cut the more the
> downward force.
>
> Did you make the cuts in four or five passes or just a full plunge
> and then lateral movement?
>
>
> charlie b
On Nov 3, 9:32=A0am, [email protected] wrote:
> On Nov 3, 2:53 am, Chef Juke <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sun, 2 Nov 2008 07:34:48 -0800 (PST), "[email protected]"
>
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >I purchased and Akeda jig a few months ago (lots of raves on the new
> > >group). =A0I have begun using it to build a bunch of =A0drawers for
> > >kitchen cabinets. =A0My first set of 10 drawers came out perfect. =A0T=
hey
> > >were made from solid birch. =A0I was not so lucky on the second set of
> > >drawers. The sides are 1/2" baltic birch and the front and back are
> > >3/4" baltic birch. =A0A front board will finish the drawers.
>
> > >I made some tests to establish the height of the bit and got it "just
> > >right" after a couple =A0of tries. I then proceeded to do the half bli=
nd
> > >joints for the first 5 drawers. =A0I cut the tails in the sides for al=
l
> > >five drawers. =A0Then I switched to the pins on the five sets of front
> > >and back pieces for the drawers. =A0I was very disappointed to find th=
at
> > >the joints did not fit correctly. =A0The tails do not mate tightly to
> > >the pins - there is a 1/16 inch gap; i.e., the is a gap holding the
> > >two pieces apart by 1/16 inch.
>
> > >I checked the pieces with my test pieces. =A0The tails in the drawer
> > >sides fit perfectly with the pins in my test pieces. =A0Something went
> > >wrong when I cut the pins on the front and back pieces. =A0My first
> > >thought was that the router bit dropped or the router depth changed.
> > >But, it would have =A0happened just as I changed from tails to pins -
> > >too much of a coincidence! =A0The guides are all at the same height an=
d
> > >are in there tight.
>
> > >Anybody got suggestions on what I did wrong?
>
> > >Len
>
> > Len,
>
> > Do you have a complete set of Akeda bits and bushings?
>
> > On one of my first go rounds with the jig I used the wrong straight
> > bit (the 0.350-Inch box joint bit instead of the .315-Inch bit). =A0Thi=
s
> > would be the FIRST thing I would check as the results were EXACTLY as
> > you describe.
>
> But he was doing half-blind, which doesn't use a straight bit.
>
> -Kevin- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
D'Oh!
Yep. yer right. So it shouldn't be a BIT issue, but could still be a
bushing issue....
[email protected] wrote:
> I purchased and Akeda jig a few months ago (lots of raves on the new
> group). I have begun using it to build a bunch of drawers for
> kitchen cabinets. My first set of 10 drawers came out perfect. They
> were made from solid birch. I was not so lucky on the second set of
> drawers. The sides are 1/2" baltic birch and the front and back are
> 3/4" baltic birch. A front board will finish the drawers.
>
> I made some tests to establish the height of the bit and got it "just
> right" after a couple of tries. I then proceeded to do the half blind
> joints for the first 5 drawers. I cut the tails in the sides for all
> five drawers. Then I switched to the pins on the five sets of front
> and back pieces for the drawers. I was very disappointed to find that
> the joints did not fit correctly. The tails do not mate tightly to
> the pins - there is a 1/16 inch gap; i.e., the is a gap holding the
> two pieces apart by 1/16 inch.
>
> I checked the pieces with my test pieces. The tails in the drawer
> sides fit perfectly with the pins in my test pieces. Something went
> wrong when I cut the pins on the front and back pieces. My first
> thought was that the router bit dropped or the router depth changed.
> But, it would have happened just as I changed from tails to pins -
> too much of a coincidence! The guides are all at the same height and
> are in there tight.
>
> Anybody got suggestions on what I did wrong?
>
> Len
Did you plane the stock for the test and the final in the same run? A
slight thickness difference can really muck up a router cut dovetail.
On Nov 3, 2:53 am, Chef Juke <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Sun, 2 Nov 2008 07:34:48 -0800 (PST), "[email protected]"
>
>
>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >I purchased and Akeda jig a few months ago (lots of raves on the new
> >group). I have begun using it to build a bunch of drawers for
> >kitchen cabinets. My first set of 10 drawers came out perfect. They
> >were made from solid birch. I was not so lucky on the second set of
> >drawers. The sides are 1/2" baltic birch and the front and back are
> >3/4" baltic birch. A front board will finish the drawers.
>
> >I made some tests to establish the height of the bit and got it "just
> >right" after a couple of tries. I then proceeded to do the half blind
> >joints for the first 5 drawers. I cut the tails in the sides for all
> >five drawers. Then I switched to the pins on the five sets of front
> >and back pieces for the drawers. I was very disappointed to find that
> >the joints did not fit correctly. The tails do not mate tightly to
> >the pins - there is a 1/16 inch gap; i.e., the is a gap holding the
> >two pieces apart by 1/16 inch.
>
> >I checked the pieces with my test pieces. The tails in the drawer
> >sides fit perfectly with the pins in my test pieces. Something went
> >wrong when I cut the pins on the front and back pieces. My first
> >thought was that the router bit dropped or the router depth changed.
> >But, it would have happened just as I changed from tails to pins -
> >too much of a coincidence! The guides are all at the same height and
> >are in there tight.
>
> >Anybody got suggestions on what I did wrong?
>
> >Len
>
> Len,
>
> Do you have a complete set of Akeda bits and bushings?
>
> On one of my first go rounds with the jig I used the wrong straight
> bit (the 0.350-Inch box joint bit instead of the .315-Inch bit). This
> would be the FIRST thing I would check as the results were EXACTLY as
> you describe.
But he was doing half-blind, which doesn't use a straight bit.
-Kevin
Swingman wrote:
>
> I do NOT own an Akeda, but a Leigh instead, and have cut countless half
> blind dovetails over the years.
>
> That said, it would appear that the same "depth of cut" issue is in play for
> cutting the pins of half blind dovetails with either jig:
>
> With the Leigh, "depth of cut" is the deciding factor when cutting pins on
> whether the half blind dovetails joint is loose or tight ... sounds like
> your bit may have slipped.
>
Late to another thread but my vote is for Swingman's answer.
Remember, you're using 1/4" diameter shank bitS (unless you got
the 8mm shanks - and collet) and the shanks are longer than regular
router bits in order to work in any of the dovetail jigs. And the
dovetail bit wants to pull DOWN as it cuts.
The other possible source, or contributing factor is ply vs solid
wood. Ply has a fair amount of glue which tends to dull cutting
edges faster than most woods. Dull edges mean more downward
force. And the faster you try and make the cut the more the
downward force.
Did you make the cuts in four or five passes or just a full plunge
and then lateral movement?
charlie b
[email protected] wrote:
>
> I hadn't thought of the downward pull. The bit is still sharp and I
> made about 3 or 4 passes to route the joints. I will look at the bit
> height tonight.
>
> Thanks
> Len
Might want to put some lacquer thinner on a Q-tip and clean both
the collet and the inside of where it fits.
It's the less than obvious things that often raise hell - or in this
case perhaps a router bit.
Bummer :-(
It has been too long since I've used that jig to know for sure. Things
that come to mind are...
- Material thickness variance
- Router bit heat expansion (not so plausable)
- Some chips under the base plate or in the clamp space during initial
setup.
Just an FYI that in production shops using Baltic, we always puttied
with white putty and sanded out any dovetails or box joints and it
actually looks really great.
BW
On Nov 2, 7:34=A0am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I purchased and Akeda jig a few months ago (lots of raves on the new
> group). =A0I have begun using it to build a bunch of =A0drawers for
> kitchen cabinets. =A0My first set of 10 drawers came out perfect. =A0They
> were made from solid birch. =A0I was not so lucky on the second set of
> drawers. The sides are 1/2" baltic birch and the front and back are
> 3/4" baltic birch. =A0A front board will finish the drawers.
>
> I made some tests to establish the height of the bit and got it "just
> right" after a couple =A0of tries. I then proceeded to do the half blind
> joints for the first 5 drawers. =A0I cut the tails in the sides for all
> five drawers. =A0Then I switched to the pins on the five sets of front
> and back pieces for the drawers. =A0I was very disappointed to find that
> the joints did not fit correctly. =A0The tails do not mate tightly to
> the pins - there is a 1/16 inch gap; i.e., the is a gap holding the
> two pieces apart by 1/16 inch.
>
> I checked the pieces with my test pieces. =A0The tails in the drawer
> sides fit perfectly with the pins in my test pieces. =A0Something went
> wrong when I cut the pins on the front and back pieces. =A0My first
> thought was that the router bit dropped or the router depth changed.
> But, it would have =A0happened just as I changed from tails to pins -
> too much of a coincidence! =A0The guides are all at the same height and
> are in there tight.
>
> Anybody got suggestions on what I did wrong?
>
> Len
On Nov 2, 10:34 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I purchased and Akeda jig a few months ago (lots of raves on the new
> group). I have begun using it to build a bunch of drawers for
> kitchen cabinets. My first set of 10 drawers came out perfect. They
> were made from solid birch. I was not so lucky on the second set of
> drawers. The sides are 1/2" baltic birch and the front and back are
> 3/4" baltic birch. A front board will finish the drawers.
>
> I made some tests to establish the height of the bit and got it "just
> right" after a couple of tries. I then proceeded to do the half blind
> joints for the first 5 drawers. I cut the tails in the sides for all
> five drawers. Then I switched to the pins on the five sets of front
> and back pieces for the drawers. I was very disappointed to find that
> the joints did not fit correctly. The tails do not mate tightly to
> the pins - there is a 1/16 inch gap; i.e., the is a gap holding the
> two pieces apart by 1/16 inch.
>
> I checked the pieces with my test pieces. The tails in the drawer
> sides fit perfectly with the pins in my test pieces. Something went
> wrong when I cut the pins on the front and back pieces. My first
> thought was that the router bit dropped or the router depth changed.
> But, it would have happened just as I changed from tails to pins -
> too much of a coincidence! The guides are all at the same height and
> are in there tight.
>
> Anybody got suggestions on what I did wrong?
Put the test piece that fits correctly back in and try to figure out
what's different? I only do through dovetails so I can't be of much
use.
Kevan at Akeda is very helpful.
-Kevin
It can't be the bushing. The test was done with pieces of baltic
birch from the same sheet and the same bushing. If it were the
bushing, the test pieces would have failed too. Not so?
I didn't plane the baltic birch, but it is right on in thickness.
I'm thinking that the boards for the pins did not go in correctly;
possibly something got stuck in there. I did clamp them pretty tight.
I will get back to it in a couple of days and report back on it.
Thanks for all suggestions
Len
------
Chef Juke wrote:
> On Nov 3, 9:32=EF=BF=BDam, [email protected] wrote:
> > On Nov 3, 2:53 am, Chef Juke <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Sun, 2 Nov 2008 07:34:48 -0800 (PST), "[email protected]"
> >
> > > <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > >I purchased and Akeda jig a few months ago (lots of raves on the new
> > > >group). =EF=BF=BDI have begun using it to build a bunch of =EF=BF=BD=
drawers for
> > > >kitchen cabinets. =EF=BF=BDMy first set of 10 drawers came out perfe=
ct. =EF=BF=BDThey
> > > >were made from solid birch. =EF=BF=BDI was not so lucky on the secon=
d set of
> > > >drawers. The sides are 1/2" baltic birch and the front and back are
> > > >3/4" baltic birch. =EF=BF=BDA front board will finish the drawers.
> >
> > > >I made some tests to establish the height of the bit and got it "jus=
t
> > > >right" after a couple =EF=BF=BDof tries. I then proceeded to do the =
half blind
> > > >joints for the first 5 drawers. =EF=BF=BDI cut the tails in the side=
s for all
> > > >five drawers. =EF=BF=BDThen I switched to the pins on the five sets =
of front
> > > >and back pieces for the drawers. =EF=BF=BDI was very disappointed to=
find that
> > > >the joints did not fit correctly. =EF=BF=BDThe tails do not mate tig=
htly to
> > > >the pins - there is a 1/16 inch gap; i.e., the is a gap holding the
> > > >two pieces apart by 1/16 inch.
> >
> > > >I checked the pieces with my test pieces. =EF=BF=BDThe tails in the =
drawer
> > > >sides fit perfectly with the pins in my test pieces. =EF=BF=BDSometh=
ing went
> > > >wrong when I cut the pins on the front and back pieces. =EF=BF=BDMy =
first
> > > >thought was that the router bit dropped or the router depth changed.
> > > >But, it would have =EF=BF=BDhappened just as I changed from tails to=
pins -
> > > >too much of a coincidence! =EF=BF=BDThe guides are all at the same h=
eight and
> > > >are in there tight.
> >
> > > >Anybody got suggestions on what I did wrong?
> >
> > > >Len
> >
> > > Len,
> >
> > > Do you have a complete set of Akeda bits and bushings?
> >
> > > On one of my first go rounds with the jig I used the wrong straight
> > > bit (the 0.350-Inch box joint bit instead of the .315-Inch bit). =EF=
=BF=BDThis
> > > would be the FIRST thing I would check as the results were EXACTLY as
> > > you describe.
> >
> > But he was doing half-blind, which doesn't use a straight bit.
> >
> > -Kevin- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> D'Oh!
>
> Yep. yer right. So it shouldn't be a BIT issue, but could still be a
> bushing issue....
I finally found some time to resolve the problem. After looking over
the original incorrectly routed pieces I decided that it was a gradual
change in some setting. The only possibilities were the router height
adjustment and the collet. I bought a new collet. It is much
tighter than the old one - so there must have been a lot of wear over
the years. I have been routing dove tails for the last few days with
no problems.
Case Closed (finally)
Len
On Nov 3, 10:00=A0pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I will get back to it in a couple of days and report back on it.
>
> Thanks for all suggestions
>
> Len
I for one will be looking for it. I have the Akeda as well, and for
one reason after another have not been able to get it out and get it
benched for testing.
Let us know what you find out!
Robert
[email protected] wrote:
> I made some tests to establish the height of the bit and got it "just
> right" after a couple of tries. I then proceeded to do the half blind
> joints for the first 5 drawers. I cut the tails in the sides for all
> five drawers. Then I switched to the pins on the five sets of front
> and back pieces for the drawers. I was very disappointed to find that
> the joints did not fit correctly. The tails do not mate tightly to
> the pins - there is a 1/16 inch gap; i.e., the is a gap holding the
> two pieces apart by 1/16 inch.
Sounds like you cut the tails too deep, or the pins not deep enough.
Chris
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I purchased and Akeda jig a few months ago (lots of raves on the new
> group). I have begun using it to build a bunch of drawers for
> kitchen cabinets. My first set of 10 drawers came out perfect. They
> were made from solid birch. I was not so lucky on the second set of
> drawers. The sides are 1/2" baltic birch and the front and back are
> 3/4" baltic birch. A front board will finish the drawers.
>
> I made some tests to establish the height of the bit and got it "just
> right" after a couple of tries. I then proceeded to do the half blind
> joints for the first 5 drawers. I cut the tails in the sides for all
> five drawers. Then I switched to the pins on the five sets of front
> and back pieces for the drawers. I was very disappointed to find that
> the joints did not fit correctly. The tails do not mate tightly to
> the pins - there is a 1/16 inch gap; i.e., the is a gap holding the
> two pieces apart by 1/16 inch.
>
> I checked the pieces with my test pieces. The tails in the drawer
> sides fit perfectly with the pins in my test pieces. Something went
> wrong when I cut the pins on the front and back pieces. My first
> thought was that the router bit dropped or the router depth changed.
> But, it would have happened just as I changed from tails to pins -
> too much of a coincidence! The guides are all at the same height and
> are in there tight.
>
> Anybody got suggestions on what I did wrong?
Assuming you did nothing wrong and the bit depth is still correct, the stock
could have been warped and was not clamped "flat" in the jig. This would be
a problem with most any jig.
On Sun, 2 Nov 2008 07:34:48 -0800 (PST), "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>I purchased and Akeda jig a few months ago (lots of raves on the new
>group). I have begun using it to build a bunch of drawers for
>kitchen cabinets. My first set of 10 drawers came out perfect. They
>were made from solid birch. I was not so lucky on the second set of
>drawers. The sides are 1/2" baltic birch and the front and back are
>3/4" baltic birch. A front board will finish the drawers.
>
>I made some tests to establish the height of the bit and got it "just
>right" after a couple of tries. I then proceeded to do the half blind
>joints for the first 5 drawers. I cut the tails in the sides for all
>five drawers. Then I switched to the pins on the five sets of front
>and back pieces for the drawers. I was very disappointed to find that
>the joints did not fit correctly. The tails do not mate tightly to
>the pins - there is a 1/16 inch gap; i.e., the is a gap holding the
>two pieces apart by 1/16 inch.
>
>I checked the pieces with my test pieces. The tails in the drawer
>sides fit perfectly with the pins in my test pieces. Something went
>wrong when I cut the pins on the front and back pieces. My first
>thought was that the router bit dropped or the router depth changed.
>But, it would have happened just as I changed from tails to pins -
>too much of a coincidence! The guides are all at the same height and
>are in there tight.
>
>Anybody got suggestions on what I did wrong?
>
>Len
Len,
Do you have a complete set of Akeda bits and bushings?
On one of my first go rounds with the jig I used the wrong straight
bit (the 0.350-Inch box joint bit instead of the .315-Inch bit). This
would be the FIRST thing I would check as the results were EXACTLY as
you describe.
The full akeda bushing set also includes oversized and undersized
bushings. Using the wrong one could also give you a possible same
result.
-Chef Juke
"EVERYbody Eats when they come to MY house!"
http://www.chefjuke.com
<[email protected]> wrote
> It can't be the bushing. The test was done with pieces of baltic
> birch from the same sheet and the same bushing. If it were the
> bushing, the test pieces would have failed too. Not so?
>
> I didn't plane the baltic birch, but it is right on in thickness.
>
> I'm thinking that the boards for the pins did not go in correctly;
> possibly something got stuck in there. I did clamp them pretty tight.
>
> I will get back to it in a couple of days and report back on it.
I do NOT own an Akeda, but a Leigh instead, and have cut countless half
blind dovetails over the years.
That said, it would appear that the same "depth of cut" issue is in play for
cutting the pins of half blind dovetails with either jig:
With the Leigh, "depth of cut" is the deciding factor when cutting pins on
whether the half blind dovetails joint is loose or tight ... sounds like
your bit may have slipped.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)