How To Chamfer Cabinet Door Frame?

On 1/24/2018 9:07 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Wednesday, January 24, 2018 at 1:14:26 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>> Leon <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> On 1/23/18 11:59 PM, Leon wrote:
>>>>> [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>> Hey MIKE and Leon...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Looked at the links with keen interest. It is my imagination, or are
>>>>>> router bids less expensive or at least holding their prices?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I had a couple of projects to do about 10 years ago where I edged all the
>>>>>> trim by hand for a client. It wasn't a ton (500' or so) and I didn't
>>>>>> want to buy Amana, CMT or others because of the price, so I went with
>>>>>> MLCS since they told me that if I didn't like them I could return them. I
>>>>>> liked the bits and put a couple of my contractor buddies on to them and
>>>>>> they used their door sets with great success.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best for them was the fact that they were literally 30-40% less than the
>>>>>> big guys. Now MLCS is cheaper than I remember, and likewise the bits on
>>>>>> the links you posted.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is it my imagination? Are production methods to the point where these
>>>>>> guys can hold the line on pricing?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Robert
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Funny you should ask. I think they are getting cheaper. I bought 3
>>>>> carbide top bearing flush cut 1/2" diameter bits. 1/4" shank and 1/2",
>>>>> 3/4", and 1" Long. Amazon Prime delivered in 2 days, $13.88.
>>>>>
>>>>> I just needed the 3/4" Long one but for that price the more the merrier.
>>>>> And I expected to total the bit.
>>>>>
>>>>> Today I plunge cut 25, 36" Long runs about 9/16" deep into 1/2" birch
>>>>> multiply plywood. The bit was always cutting on its right, left, and
>>>>> leading edge. I was hogging out a ton of material. The bit still feels
>>>>> sharp. I used my small Makita trim router.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Makita!? That's not green. :-p
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes it is.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Kind of a dark dirty green. :-)
>>
>>
>> But I wish I had been using a Festool router. I could have filled a 5
>> gallon bucket with sawdust from this run. IIRC the Festool routers also
>> have great dust control.
>
> I was searching the web to see if anybody had a DC adapter for my PC690
> router. Back in 2010, somebody was asking about the same thing in a
> DIY forum. He needed to about 50 dados and said that he didn't have a
> table saw.
>
> I chuckled at this response:
>
> "I don't believe there is an aftermarket port for (the 690) router to do off-
> edge routing. Festool makes a router with a built in dust collection port.
>
> http://www.mcfeelys.com/product/574267 (bad link)
>
> At this list price, you could get a decent table saw."

Yeah but try hauling a dado into someones house to cut 50 dados. ;~)

DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 7:37:13 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
>
> ...snip...
>
>>
>> You could use any number of those bits and then run the stiles through
>> the table saw at 45degress to get your chamfer.
>> You would end up with a tiny little hollow triangle at the joint, but
>> you may not notice it, or you could fill it with putty.
>>
>
> I ran a full length chamfer on the rails and a stopped chamfer on the
> stiles. After I assembled the doors, I filled the "over shoot" with
> Durham's RockHard, then chiseled the chamfer square. I still need to do
> a little cleanup, but they are coming out pretty good.
>
> They are going to be painted, so I'm going to lose some detail, but so
> be it.
>
> https://i.imgur.com/y9jFZCJ.jpg
>

Hey! You did good, Nice!

[email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hey MIKE and Leon...
>
> Looked at the links with keen interest. It is my imagination, or are
> router bids less expensive or at least holding their prices?
>
> I had a couple of projects to do about 10 years ago where I edged all the
> trim by hand for a client. It wasn't a ton (500' or so) and I didn't
> want to buy Amana, CMT or others because of the price, so I went with
> MLCS since they told me that if I didn't like them I could return them. I
> liked the bits and put a couple of my contractor buddies on to them and
> they used their door sets with great success.
>
> Best for them was the fact that they were literally 30-40% less than the
> big guys. Now MLCS is cheaper than I remember, and likewise the bits on
> the links you posted.
>
> Is it my imagination? Are production methods to the point where these
> guys can hold the line on pricing?
>
> Robert
>

Funny you should ask. I think they are getting cheaper. I bought 3
carbide top bearing flush cut 1/2" diameter bits. 1/4" shank and 1/2",
3/4", and 1" Long. Amazon Prime delivered in 2 days, $13.88.

I just needed the 3/4" Long one but for that price the more the merrier.
And I expected to total the bit.

Today I plunge cut 25, 36" Long runs about 9/16" deep into 1/2" birch
multiply plywood. The bit was always cutting on its right, left, and
leading edge. I was hogging out a ton of material. The bit still feels
sharp. I used my small Makita trim router.

Leon <[email protected]> wrote:
> DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Wednesday, January 24, 2018 at 12:59:10 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>>> [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> Hey MIKE and Leon...
>>>>
>>>> Looked at the links with keen interest. It is my imagination, or are
>>>> router bids less expensive or at least holding their prices?
>>>>
>>>> I had a couple of projects to do about 10 years ago where I edged all the
>>>> trim by hand for a client. It wasn't a ton (500' or so) and I didn't
>>>> want to buy Amana, CMT or others because of the price, so I went with
>>>> MLCS since they told me that if I didn't like them I could return them. I
>>>> liked the bits and put a couple of my contractor buddies on to them and
>>>> they used their door sets with great success.
>>>>
>>>> Best for them was the fact that they were literally 30-40% less than the
>>>> big guys. Now MLCS is cheaper than I remember, and likewise the bits on
>>>> the links you posted.
>>>>
>>>> Is it my imagination? Are production methods to the point where these
>>>> guys can hold the line on pricing?
>>>>
>>>> Robert
>>>>
>>>
>>> Funny you should ask. I think they are getting cheaper. I bought 3
>>> carbide top bearing flush cut 1/2" diameter bits. 1/4" shank and 1/2",
>>> 3/4", and 1" Long. Amazon Prime delivered in 2 days, $13.88.
>>
>> What brand? More specifically, what are your thoughts on Whiteside bits?
>

Ah Whiteside. Good brand but I typically buy less expensive unless I am
buying lager bits.



> Not sure of the brand, nothing on the bits and all 3 were different colors.
>
> I can look the order up if you are interested. FWIW I wad not looking for
> name brand as mist ant brand was gong to be toast after this job, or so I
> thought. I have legs go cot out.
>
>
>
>
>>
>>>
>>> I just needed the 3/4" Long one but for that price the more the merrier.
>>> And I expected to total the bit.
>>>
>>> Today I plunge cut 25, 36" Long runs about 9/16" deep into 1/2" birch
>>> multiply plywood. The bit was always cutting on its right, left, and
>>> leading edge. I was hogging out a ton of material. The bit still feels
>>> sharp. I used my small Makita trim router.
>>
>> For that much work, why didn't you go with a full size router? Lack of support?
>>
>
> This router spinning a small 1/2 diameter bit is plenty. And if you saw
> the link to what I was cutting it has 1.5" wide results. A larger router
> would have tipped too easily.
>
>

DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Wednesday, January 24, 2018 at 12:59:10 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>> [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Hey MIKE and Leon...
>>>
>>> Looked at the links with keen interest. It is my imagination, or are
>>> router bids less expensive or at least holding their prices?
>>>
>>> I had a couple of projects to do about 10 years ago where I edged all the
>>> trim by hand for a client. It wasn't a ton (500' or so) and I didn't
>>> want to buy Amana, CMT or others because of the price, so I went with
>>> MLCS since they told me that if I didn't like them I could return them. I
>>> liked the bits and put a couple of my contractor buddies on to them and
>>> they used their door sets with great success.
>>>
>>> Best for them was the fact that they were literally 30-40% less than the
>>> big guys. Now MLCS is cheaper than I remember, and likewise the bits on
>>> the links you posted.
>>>
>>> Is it my imagination? Are production methods to the point where these
>>> guys can hold the line on pricing?
>>>
>>> Robert
>>>
>>
>> Funny you should ask. I think they are getting cheaper. I bought 3
>> carbide top bearing flush cut 1/2" diameter bits. 1/4" shank and 1/2",
>> 3/4", and 1" Long. Amazon Prime delivered in 2 days, $13.88.
>
> What brand? More specifically, what are your thoughts on Whiteside bits?

Not sure of the brand, nothing on the bits and all 3 were different colors.

I can look the order up if you are interested. FWIW I wad not looking for
name brand as mist ant brand was gong to be toast after this job, or so I
thought. I have legs go cot out.




>
>>
>> I just needed the 3/4" Long one but for that price the more the merrier.
>> And I expected to total the bit.
>>
>> Today I plunge cut 25, 36" Long runs about 9/16" deep into 1/2" birch
>> multiply plywood. The bit was always cutting on its right, left, and
>> leading edge. I was hogging out a ton of material. The bit still feels
>> sharp. I used my small Makita trim router.
>
> For that much work, why didn't you go with a full size router? Lack of support?
>

This router spinning a small 1/2 diameter bit is plenty. And if you saw
the link to what I was cutting it has 1.5" wide results. A larger router
would have tipped too easily.

On Thursday, February 1, 2018 at 10:57:06 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 7:37:13 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
>
> ...snip...
>
> >
> > You could use any number of those bits and then run the stiles through
> > the table saw at 45degress to get your chamfer.
> > You would end up with a tiny little hollow triangle at the joint, but
> > you may not notice it, or you could fill it with putty.
> >
>
> I ran a full length chamfer on the rails and a stopped chamfer on the
> stiles. After I assembled the doors, I filled the "over shoot" with
> Durham's RockHard, then chiseled the chamfer square. I still need to do
> a little cleanup, but they are coming out pretty good.
>
> They are going to be painted, so I'm going to lose some detail, but so
> be it.
>
> https://i.imgur.com/y9jFZCJ.jpg

Looks good...did you consider using a router after the glue up and using a sharp chisel to finish the inside corner? With a simple chamfer it seems do-able. A more complicated profile might not be as simple...
In any case, as have said others, ya dunn gud!

Leon <[email protected]> wrote:
> -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On 1/23/18 11:59 PM, Leon wrote:
>>> [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> Hey MIKE and Leon...
>>>>
>>>> Looked at the links with keen interest. It is my imagination, or are
>>>> router bids less expensive or at least holding their prices?
>>>>
>>>> I had a couple of projects to do about 10 years ago where I edged all the
>>>> trim by hand for a client. It wasn't a ton (500' or so) and I didn't
>>>> want to buy Amana, CMT or others because of the price, so I went with
>>>> MLCS since they told me that if I didn't like them I could return them. I
>>>> liked the bits and put a couple of my contractor buddies on to them and
>>>> they used their door sets with great success.
>>>>
>>>> Best for them was the fact that they were literally 30-40% less than the
>>>> big guys. Now MLCS is cheaper than I remember, and likewise the bits on
>>>> the links you posted.
>>>>
>>>> Is it my imagination? Are production methods to the point where these
>>>> guys can hold the line on pricing?
>>>>
>>>> Robert
>>>>
>>>
>>> Funny you should ask. I think they are getting cheaper. I bought 3
>>> carbide top bearing flush cut 1/2" diameter bits. 1/4" shank and 1/2",
>>> 3/4", and 1" Long. Amazon Prime delivered in 2 days, $13.88.
>>>
>>> I just needed the 3/4" Long one but for that price the more the merrier.
>>> And I expected to total the bit.
>>>
>>> Today I plunge cut 25, 36" Long runs about 9/16" deep into 1/2" birch
>>> multiply plywood. The bit was always cutting on its right, left, and
>>> leading edge. I was hogging out a ton of material. The bit still feels
>>> sharp. I used my small Makita trim router.
>>>
>>
>> Makita!? That's not green. :-p
>>
>>
>
> Yes it is.
>
>

Kind of a dark dirty green. :-)


But I wish I had been using a Festool router. I could have filled a 5
gallon bucket with sawdust from this run. IIRC the Festool routers also
have great dust control.

On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 7:37:13 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:

...snip...

>
> You could use any number of those bits and then run the stiles through
> the table saw at 45degress to get your chamfer.
> You would end up with a tiny little hollow triangle at the joint, but
> you may not notice it, or you could fill it with putty.
>

I ran a full length chamfer on the rails and a stopped chamfer on the
stiles. After I assembled the doors, I filled the "over shoot" with
Durham's RockHard, then chiseled the chamfer square. I still need to do
a little cleanup, but they are coming out pretty good.

They are going to be painted, so I'm going to lose some detail, but so
be it.

https://i.imgur.com/y9jFZCJ.jpg

On Friday, February 2, 2018 at 11:02:43 AM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 2/2/18 6:17 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> > On Thursday, February 1, 2018 at 10:57:06 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03
> > wrote:
> >> On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 7:37:13 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
> >>
> >> ...snip...
> >>
> >>>
> >>> You could use any number of those bits and then run the stiles
> >>> through the table saw at 45degress to get your chamfer. You
> >>> would end up with a tiny little hollow triangle at the joint, but
> >>> you may not notice it, or you could fill it with putty.
> >>>
> >>
> >> I ran a full length chamfer on the rails and a stopped chamfer on
> >> the stiles. After I assembled the doors, I filled the "over shoot"
> >> with Durham's RockHard, then chiseled the chamfer square. I still
> >> need to do a little cleanup, but they are coming out pretty good.
> >>
> >> They are going to be painted, so I'm going to lose some detail,
> >> but so be it.
> >>
> >> https://i.imgur.com/y9jFZCJ.jpg
> >
> > Looks good...did you consider using a router after the glue up and
> > using a sharp chisel to finish the inside corner? With a simple
> > chamfer it seems do-able. A more complicated profile might not be as
> > simple... In any case, as have said others, ya dunn gud!
> >
>
> His original post about this had a link pointing to how to do just that.
> I think it would be faster.

I'm the rookie here, so tell me what I am missing.

The link in my OP shows a guy squaring up a chamfer on an open frame. I'm
working on a door with a panel. I'm not seeing how the profile I want can
be created after the door is assembled. Neither of chamfer bits I have
would work.

https://i.imgur.com/DYP09CE.jpg

Perhaps building a pattern would work, but even with the four doors on
this project, there are 2 different sizes. Once I start on the kitchen
doors, there are at least 10 different sizes.

> Doing a perfect chisel cut on one is difficult.
> Doing it on 25 will be easy because by the 3rd one he will have
> developed a good technique and he'll fly through the rest with perfect
> results.

The thing is that with real wood if you screw it up, you're screwed.
With filler, you can keep filling it until you get it right. Now, I'm not
saying that I had to refill any of the 16 corners that I just did, I'm just
saying that there's a fix available should one need one. ;-)

On Friday, February 2, 2018 at 6:07:35 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 2/2/18 4:20 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> > On Friday, February 2, 2018 at 11:02:43 AM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
> >> On 2/2/18 6:17 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> >>> On Thursday, February 1, 2018 at 10:57:06 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03
> >>> wrote:
> >>>> On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 7:37:13 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> ...snip...
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You could use any number of those bits and then run the stiles
> >>>>> through the table saw at 45degress to get your chamfer. You
> >>>>> would end up with a tiny little hollow triangle at the joint, but
> >>>>> you may not notice it, or you could fill it with putty.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I ran a full length chamfer on the rails and a stopped chamfer on
> >>>> the stiles. After I assembled the doors, I filled the "over shoot"
> >>>> with Durham's RockHard, then chiseled the chamfer square. I still
> >>>> need to do a little cleanup, but they are coming out pretty good.
> >>>>
> >>>> They are going to be painted, so I'm going to lose some detail,
> >>>> but so be it.
> >>>>
> >>>> https://i.imgur.com/y9jFZCJ.jpg
> >>>
> >>> Looks good...did you consider using a router after the glue up and
> >>> using a sharp chisel to finish the inside corner? With a simple
> >>> chamfer it seems do-able. A more complicated profile might not be as
> >>> simple... In any case, as have said others, ya dunn gud!
> >>>
> >>
> >> His original post about this had a link pointing to how to do just that.
> >> I think it would be faster.
> >
> > I'm the rookie here, so tell me what I am missing.
> >
> > The link in my OP shows a guy squaring up a chamfer on an open frame. I'm
> > working on a door with a panel. I'm not seeing how the profile I want can
> > be created after the door is assembled. Neither of chamfer bits I have
> > would work.
> >
> > https://i.imgur.com/DYP09CE.jpg
> >
> > Perhaps building a pattern would work, but even with the four doors on
> > this project, there are 2 different sizes. Once I start on the kitchen
> > doors, there are at least 10 different sizes.
> >
> >> Doing a perfect chisel cut on one is difficult.
> >> Doing it on 25 will be easy because by the 3rd one he will have
> >> developed a good technique and he'll fly through the rest with perfect
> >> results.
> >
> > The thing is that with real wood if you screw it up, you're screwed.
> > With filler, you can keep filling it until you get it right. Now, I'm not
> > saying that I had to refill any of the 16 corners that I just did, I'm just
> > saying that there's a fix available should one need one. ;-)
> >
>
> There's a really cheap 45degree bearing bit out there that doesn't have
> a bearing at all. It just had a round shaft that protrudes up. The
> shaft acts as the bearing surface for the bit to ride on.
> The shaft might be short enough for your application. If it wasn't, you
> could probably grind it down so it would be.

I doubt these are cheap, but I get the idea. Thanks.

https://www.infinitytools.com/blog/2017/07/11/why-you-need-brass-pilot-roundover-and-chamfer-woodworking-router-bits/

On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 7:37:13 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 1/23/18 6:25 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> > On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 6:39:59 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
> >> On 1/23/18 1:02 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> >>> On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 12:45:10 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> >>>> On 1/23/2018 10:33 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> >>>>> On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 11:03:19 AM UTC-5, Leon
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>> On 1/23/2018 9:47 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 10:16:28 AM UTC-5, Leon
> >>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On 1/23/2018 5:59 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 12:46:35 AM UTC-5,
> >>>>>>>>> Leon wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> On 1/22/2018 10:36 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> How do you build doors like this one? Frame and
> >>>>>>>>>>> panel, M&T joinery, inside edge is chamfered.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> https://tinyurl.com/ChamferDoor
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Full link:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> https://www.homecrestcabinetry.com/-/media/homecrest/products/door_styles/dover/dover_maple_shaker_cabinet_door_natural.jpg
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> Does the chamfer extend all the way to the ends of the stiles with a
> >>>>>>>>>>> matching "inside chamfer" (?) on the ends of the
> >>>>>>>>>>> rails to create the crisp corner?
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Yes.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> This guys cleans up the corners after routing
> >>>>>>>>>>> the assembled frame, but I can't see (me) doing
> >>>>>>>>>>> that for the 120+ corners I'd need to clean up
> >>>>>>>>>>> for my kitchen doors and drawers.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Not > http://www.wooditis.com/attention-to-detail/
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> A lot more work.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> I'm sure hoping that there is some router
> >>>>>>>>>>> table/table saw trick that I don't know about.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> See Mike's link. Rail and stile router bits come
> >>>>>>>>>> in all styles.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Mike's link is a start, but I'll keep looking. I
> >>>>>>>>> don't think that bit - unless it's adjustable with
> >>>>>>>>> washers - is the same profile. That appears to be a
> >>>>>>>>> full chamfer while the style I'm looking for is
> >>>>>>>>> shallower.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Look here
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> https://www.infinitytools.com/routing/router-bits/carbide/door-making-router-bits/rail-stile-router-bits-for-cabinet-doors
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>
> >>>>>>>>
> Now look at the profile pictures below the big picture of the bit set.
> >>>>>>>> Go to set 91-504. Scroll down to the pricing of that
> >>>>>>>> set. $89.00 including a set up block.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Thanks, but 91-504 is not the profile I am trying to
> >>>>>>> achieve. That profile appears to be flat-chamfer-flat.
> >>>>>>> I'm looking for chamfer-flat.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Understood, adjust the cutter up about 1/16".
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> If you look closely at this image, you will see that the
> >>>>>>> chamfer starts on the outside face of frame and ends part
> >>>>>>> way down the inside edge of the frame. Imagine that
> >>>>>>> instead of just softening the inside edge of the frame
> >>>>>>> with a quick sanding, I want to chamfer that edge about
> >>>>>>> halfway down towards the panel.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> https://tinyurl.com/ChamferDoor
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Understood, see above.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I could probably set the height of that bit to eliminate
> >>>>>>> the outer flat section, but that would move the groove up
> >>>>>>> also and I'd lose the reveal that I am going for - unless
> >>>>>>> the bit is adjustable via washers - which it does not
> >>>>>>> appear to be.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Correct! But I think the groove would only be 1/16" closer
> >>>>>> to the face of the frame if you raised the bit 1/16" to
> >>>>>> eliminate the top flat area just before the chamfer begins.
> >>>>>> If you are using flat panels for the door inserts it might
> >>>>>> be hard to tell the difference. And maybe you want more
> >>>>>> flat below the chamfer, that would certainly require a
> >>>>>> different bit.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> BUT, basically I wanted to show you that this is the style
> >>>>>> bit you are looking for.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Give Infinity a call, IIRC they are a small spin off
> >>>>>> company, son of the owner of the original Jaseda bit
> >>>>>> company.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I will call them later. I called Freud, who makes adjustable
> >>>>> R&S bits like the 99-760 1/4" round- over set, but they don't
> >>>>> make an adjustable chamfer profile.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I know the profile I want exists, because SWMBO saw it at HD
> >>>>> and we both like it. I want more reveal than plain old
> >>>>> boring "centered" and the chamfer softens the depth nicely.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Well, just because it exists does not mean it is available.
> >>>> What you both may have seen is a proprietary design that only
> >>>> the manufacturer has. BUT you will likely find something
> >>>> close enough.
> >>>
> >>> Yes, I had considered that possibility/issue, although it's hard
> >>> to believe that such a simple profile isn't readily available.
> >>>
> >>> I called Infinity and the rep doesn't think they carry what I
> >>> want, at least not based on my verbal description. She asked that
> >>> I send them a picture of the profile that I want so she can show
> >>> it to her techs. "Maybe they can think of something that will
> >>> help" I sent them this.
> >>>
> >>> https://imgur.com/a/3qyBS
> >>>
> >>> I'll let you know what they say. Thanks for the nudge in the
> >>> right direction.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Honestly, the original link you posted where the guy used a router,
> >> then cut the edges by hand... you'd be surprised at how good and
> >> fast you'd get at that using a scary-sharp chisel.
> >>
> >>
> >
> > I need to think about that whole process. To route after the door is
> > assembled might be possible, based on bit length, cut depth, etc. If
> > that can't be done, because the panel is in the way, then I'll need
> > to build an adjustable holding jig to hold the frame for routing,
> > then insert the panel before gluing.
> >
> > Certainly doable.
> >
>
> You could use any number of those bits and then run the stiles through
> the table saw at 45degress to get your chamfer.
> You would end up with a tiny little hollow triangle at the joint, but
> you may not notice it, or you could fill it with putty.
>

Do you mean like the right vs. the left? ;-)

https://i.imgur.com/Nkc9wKz.jpg

Based on the depth that SWMBO wants the chamfer, it's definitely noticeable
until filled, especially if the chamfer is done for the entire length of the
stile like a TS would produce.

However, a stopped chamfer on the router table would require a lot less
Durham's to fill the much smaller gap. Shaping the inside corner would be
fairly simple, even if there are 120+ of them to do.

After all, these are going to painted.

(Yes, I know it's cheating. Isn't it?)

On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 10:25:22 AM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 1/22/18 11:43 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> > On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 12:26:26 AM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
> >> On 1/22/18 10:36 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> >>> How do you build doors like this one? Frame and panel, M&T joinery, inside
> >>> edge is chamfered.
> >>>
> >>> https://tinyurl.com/ChamferDoor
> >>>
> >>> Full link:
> >>>
> >>> https://www.homecrestcabinetry.com/-/media/homecrest/products/door_styles/dover/dover_maple_shaker_cabinet_door_natural.jpg
> >>>
> >>> Does the chamfer extend all the way to the ends of the stiles with a
> >>> matching "inside chamfer" (?) on the ends of the rails to create the
> >>> crisp corner?
> >>>
> >>> This guys cleans up the corners after routing the assembled frame, but I
> >>> can't see (me) doing that for the 120+ corners I'd need to clean up for my
> >>> kitchen doors and drawers.
> >>>
> >>> http://www.wooditis.com/attention-to-detail/
> >>>
> >>> I'm sure hoping that there is some router table/table saw trick that
> >>> I don't know about.
> >>>
> >>
> >> http://www.rockler.com/2-piece-rail-stile-shaker-cutter-bit-set
> >>
> >>
> >
> > That bit looks like it cuts the chamfer all the way down to the slot. Do you know if the
> > bits come apart so that you can use washers to make a shallower chamfer and leave
> > some "flat" wood between the chamfer and the panel?
> >
>
> <https://www.toolstoday.com/2-piece-shaker-stile-rail-router-bit-set-58-78-inch-material.html>
>
>

That's the opposite of what I am trying to achieve. Can you move the flat section down
so that it is next to the panel and the chamfer starts at the face of the frame? Thanks! ;-)

On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 6:31:28 PM UTC-5, dadiOH wrote:
> "DerbyDad03" <[email protected]> wrote in message=20
> news:[email protected]...
>=20
> >> Well, just because it exists does not mean it is available. What you
> >> both may have seen is a proprietary design that only the manufacturer
> >> has. BUT you will likely find something close enough.
> >
> > Yes, I had considered that possibility/issue, although it's hard to=20
> > believe that such a simple
> > profile isn't readily available.
> >
> > I called Infinity and the rep doesn't think they carry what I want, at=
=20
> > least not based on my
> > verbal description. She asked that I send them a picture of the profile=
=20
> > that I want so she can
> > show it to her techs. "Maybe they can think of something that will help=
" I=20
> > sent them this.
> >
> > https://imgur.com/a/3qyBS
>=20
> All you need is a regular cope and stick bit or bits where the cutters ar=
e=20
> removeable so you can shim or cut in two passes. These look like they co=
uld=20
> work...
> http://www.freudtools.com/index.php/products/product/99-762
>=20
> http://www.freudtools.com/index.php/products/product/99-862
>

Thanks for that. A few issues/questions.

Issue: The angle is 22=C2=B0 while I was looking for 45=C2=B0 so I don't kn=
ow how=20
that will work for me. I'd hate to drop $130 for something that we don't=20
like. Obviously I will looking at the return policy from where ever I buy.

Issue: This guy did not give that bit a very good review:

http://lumberjocks.com/reviews/3689

Question: When you look at that bit do you think that washers could be=20
placed between the angled cutter and the groove cutter? The goal is *not*=
=20
to have the chamfer go all the way down to the slot. See the bottom=20
profile here, which I sent to Infinity tools to see what they had:

https://i.imgur.com/hAvCD0E.jpg

That means that the angle cutter and groove cutter need to be spaced
some distance apart in order to leave a right angle section at the=20
panel. Then, of course, the coping bit needs to be able to be altered=20
to match.

On 1/23/2018 5:59 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 12:46:35 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>> On 1/22/2018 10:36 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>> How do you build doors like this one? Frame and panel, M&T joinery, inside
>>> edge is chamfered.
>>>
>>> https://tinyurl.com/ChamferDoor
>>>
>>> Full link:
>>>
>>> https://www.homecrestcabinetry.com/-/media/homecrest/products/door_styles/dover/dover_maple_shaker_cabinet_door_natural.jpg
>>>
>>> Does the chamfer extend all the way to the ends of the stiles with a
>>> matching "inside chamfer" (?) on the ends of the rails to create the
>>> crisp corner?
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> This guys cleans up the corners after routing the assembled frame, but I
>>> can't see (me) doing that for the 120+ corners I'd need to clean up for my
>>> kitchen doors and drawers.
>>>
>> Not > http://www.wooditis.com/attention-to-detail/
>>
>> A lot more work.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> I'm sure hoping that there is some router table/table saw trick that
>>> I don't know about.
>>>
>>
>> See Mike's link. Rail and stile router bits come in all styles.
>
> Mike's link is a start, but I'll keep looking. I don't think that bit - unless it's adjustable with
> washers - is the same profile. That appears to be a full chamfer while the style I'm looking for
> is shallower.
>

Look here

https://www.infinitytools.com/routing/router-bits/carbide/door-making-router-bits/rail-stile-router-bits-for-cabinet-doors


Now look at the profile pictures below the big picture of the bit set.
Go to set 91-504. Scroll down to the pricing of that set. $89.00
including a set up block.

FWIW I do not use set up blocks. On scraps I adjust the height of the
bit to what I want in appearance and then when coping the ends of the
rails I test on a scrap to fit the stiles.

-MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 1/23/18 11:59 PM, Leon wrote:
>> [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Hey MIKE and Leon...
>>>
>>> Looked at the links with keen interest. It is my imagination, or are
>>> router bids less expensive or at least holding their prices?
>>>
>>> I had a couple of projects to do about 10 years ago where I edged all the
>>> trim by hand for a client. It wasn't a ton (500' or so) and I didn't
>>> want to buy Amana, CMT or others because of the price, so I went with
>>> MLCS since they told me that if I didn't like them I could return them. I
>>> liked the bits and put a couple of my contractor buddies on to them and
>>> they used their door sets with great success.
>>>
>>> Best for them was the fact that they were literally 30-40% less than the
>>> big guys. Now MLCS is cheaper than I remember, and likewise the bits on
>>> the links you posted.
>>>
>>> Is it my imagination? Are production methods to the point where these
>>> guys can hold the line on pricing?
>>>
>>> Robert
>>>
>>
>> Funny you should ask. I think they are getting cheaper. I bought 3
>> carbide top bearing flush cut 1/2" diameter bits. 1/4" shank and 1/2",
>> 3/4", and 1" Long. Amazon Prime delivered in 2 days, $13.88.
>>
>> I just needed the 3/4" Long one but for that price the more the merrier.
>> And I expected to total the bit.
>>
>> Today I plunge cut 25, 36" Long runs about 9/16" deep into 1/2" birch
>> multiply plywood. The bit was always cutting on its right, left, and
>> leading edge. I was hogging out a ton of material. The bit still feels
>> sharp. I used my small Makita trim router.
>>
>
> Makita!? That's not green. :-p
>
>

Yes it is.

On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 12:45:10 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> On 1/23/2018 10:33 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> > On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 11:03:19 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> >> On 1/23/2018 9:47 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> >>> On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 10:16:28 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> >>>> On 1/23/2018 5:59 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> >>>>> On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 12:46:35 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> >>>>>> On 1/22/2018 10:36 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> >>>>>>> How do you build doors like this one? Frame and panel, M&T joinery, inside
> >>>>>>> edge is chamfered.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> https://tinyurl.com/ChamferDoor
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Full link:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> https://www.homecrestcabinetry.com/-/media/homecrest/products/door_styles/dover/dover_maple_shaker_cabinet_door_natural.jpg
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Does the chamfer extend all the way to the ends of the stiles with a
> >>>>>>> matching "inside chamfer" (?) on the ends of the rails to create the
> >>>>>>> crisp corner?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Yes.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> This guys cleans up the corners after routing the assembled frame, but I
> >>>>>>> can't see (me) doing that for the 120+ corners I'd need to clean up for my
> >>>>>>> kitchen doors and drawers.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> Not > http://www.wooditis.com/attention-to-detail/
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> A lot more work.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I'm sure hoping that there is some router table/table saw trick that
> >>>>>>> I don't know about.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> See Mike's link. Rail and stile router bits come in all styles.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Mike's link is a start, but I'll keep looking. I don't think that bit - unless it's adjustable with
> >>>>> washers - is the same profile. That appears to be a full chamfer while the style I'm looking for
> >>>>> is shallower.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Look here
> >>>>
> >>>> https://www.infinitytools.com/routing/router-bits/carbide/door-making-router-bits/rail-stile-router-bits-for-cabinet-doors
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Now look at the profile pictures below the big picture of the bit set.
> >>>> Go to set 91-504. Scroll down to the pricing of that set. $89.00
> >>>> including a set up block.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks, but 91-504 is not the profile I am trying to achieve. That profile appears to
> >>> be flat-chamfer-flat. I'm looking for chamfer-flat.
> >>
> >> Understood, adjust the cutter up about 1/16".
> >>
> >>>
> >>> If you look closely at this image, you will see that the chamfer starts on the outside face of
> >>> frame and ends part way down the inside edge of the frame. Imagine that instead of just
> >>> softening the inside edge of the frame with a quick sanding, I want to chamfer that edge
> >>> about halfway down towards the panel.
> >>>
> >>> https://tinyurl.com/ChamferDoor
> >>
> >> Understood, see above.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> I could probably set the height of that bit to eliminate the outer flat section, but that would
> >>> move the groove up also and I'd lose the reveal that I am going for - unless the bit is
> >>> adjustable via washers - which it does not appear to be.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Correct! But I think the groove would only be 1/16" closer to the face
> >> of the frame if you raised the bit 1/16" to eliminate the top flat area
> >> just before the chamfer begins. If you are using flat panels for the
> >> door inserts it might be hard to tell the difference.
> >> And maybe you want more flat below the chamfer, that would certainly
> >> require a different bit.
> >>
> >> BUT, basically I wanted to show you that this is the style bit you are
> >> looking for.
> >>
> >> Give Infinity a call, IIRC they are a small spin off company, son of the
> >> owner of the original Jaseda bit company.
> >
> > I will call them later. I called Freud, who makes adjustable R&S bits like the 99-760 1/4" round-
> > over set, but they don't make an adjustable chamfer profile.
> >
> > I know the profile I want exists, because SWMBO saw it at HD and we both like it. I want more
> > reveal than plain old boring "centered" and the chamfer softens the depth nicely.
> >
>
> Well, just because it exists does not mean it is available. What you
> both may have seen is a proprietary design that only the manufacturer
> has. BUT you will likely find something close enough.

Yes, I had considered that possibility/issue, although it's hard to believe that such a simple
profile isn't readily available.

I called Infinity and the rep doesn't think they carry what I want, at least not based on my
verbal description. She asked that I send them a picture of the profile that I want so she can
show it to her techs. "Maybe they can think of something that will help" I sent them this.

https://imgur.com/a/3qyBS

I'll let you know what they say. Thanks for the nudge in the right direction.

Leon <[email protected]> wrote:
> [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Hey MIKE and Leon...
>>
>> Looked at the links with keen interest. It is my imagination, or are
>> router bids less expensive or at least holding their prices?
>>
>> I had a couple of projects to do about 10 years ago where I edged all the
>> trim by hand for a client. It wasn't a ton (500' or so) and I didn't
>> want to buy Amana, CMT or others because of the price, so I went with
>> MLCS since they told me that if I didn't like them I could return them. I
>> liked the bits and put a couple of my contractor buddies on to them and
>> they used their door sets with great success.
>>
>> Best for them was the fact that they were literally 30-40% less than the
>> big guys. Now MLCS is cheaper than I remember, and likewise the bits on
>> the links you posted.
>>
>> Is it my imagination? Are production methods to the point where these
>> guys can hold the line on pricing?
>>
>> Robert
>>
>
> Funny you should ask. I think they are getting cheaper. I bought 3
> carbide top bearing flush cut 1/2" diameter bits. 1/4" shank and 1/2",
> 3/4", and 1" Long. Amazon Prime delivered in 2 days, $13.88.
>
> I just needed the 3/4" Long one but for that price the more the merrier.
> And I expected to total the bit.
>
> Today I plunge cut 25, 36" Long runs about 9/16" deep into 1/2" birch
> multiply plywood. The bit was always cutting on its right, left, and
> leading edge. I was hogging out a ton of material. The bit still feels
> sharp. I used my small Makita trim router.
>
>

What I did.

https://flic.kr/p/23JEipc

https://flic.kr/p/22DUfNU

On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 11:26:26 PM UTC-6, -MIKE- wrote:

>=20
> http://www.rockler.com/2-piece-rail-stile-shaker-cutter-bit-set
>=20

And one of Roy Underhill's programs demonstrates how to produce a similar b=
eveled or curved, mating edge (making window sashes) using hand planes. I=
n Roy's demo, one small part of the tenon is shaved (cut off) to accommodat=
e a space needed for the full mating, otherwise, the concept (profile-makin=
g) is essentially the same.

When using a router bit, try to make sure you can mark your board, exactly,=
and score the cut line with a razor edge, such that, there is little to no=
tear out along the facing's back-beveled edge. A sharp router bit helps =
prevent tear out, of course. Depending on your lumber, that beveled edge co=
uld have some tear out, so take note of this possibility.

In Roy's demo, not only does he score this cut/bevel edge line, but he hand=
cuts the bevel, a bit, before using the hand plane. This can be seen in =
this video, at the 4:15 through 5:00 time. Though you may not make a beve=
led cut, you might want to consider, at least, scoring your cut line, this =
way: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D0BnXq6JlZbc

You had mentioned having hand re-positioning issues, using the router, on a=
previous project. Possibly, any subsequent hand re-positioning issues ma=
y compound a tear out issue. A score line might help prevent this.

*Re-positioning your hands may not come into play, as I suppose a miter gau=
ge would be used for stability, when routing the ends of a board, this way.

Not trying to be redundant, but score lines have often save my efforts on e=
ven the simplest of cuts, so I try to use them on 'most everything.

Sonny

-MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 1/24/18 12:14 AM, Leon wrote:
>> Leon <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> On 1/23/18 11:59 PM, Leon wrote:
>>>>> [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>> Hey MIKE and Leon...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Looked at the links with keen interest. It is my imagination, or are
>>>>>> router bids less expensive or at least holding their prices?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I had a couple of projects to do about 10 years ago where I edged all the
>>>>>> trim by hand for a client. It wasn't a ton (500' or so) and I didn't
>>>>>> want to buy Amana, CMT or others because of the price, so I went with
>>>>>> MLCS since they told me that if I didn't like them I could return them. I
>>>>>> liked the bits and put a couple of my contractor buddies on to them and
>>>>>> they used their door sets with great success.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best for them was the fact that they were literally 30-40% less than the
>>>>>> big guys. Now MLCS is cheaper than I remember, and likewise the bits on
>>>>>> the links you posted.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is it my imagination? Are production methods to the point where these
>>>>>> guys can hold the line on pricing?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Robert
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Funny you should ask. I think they are getting cheaper. I bought 3
>>>>> carbide top bearing flush cut 1/2" diameter bits. 1/4" shank and 1/2",
>>>>> 3/4", and 1" Long. Amazon Prime delivered in 2 days, $13.88.
>>>>>
>>>>> I just needed the 3/4" Long one but for that price the more the merrier.
>>>>> And I expected to total the bit.
>>>>>
>>>>> Today I plunge cut 25, 36" Long runs about 9/16" deep into 1/2" birch
>>>>> multiply plywood. The bit was always cutting on its right, left, and
>>>>> leading edge. I was hogging out a ton of material. The bit still feels
>>>>> sharp. I used my small Makita trim router.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Makita!? That's not green. :-p
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes it is.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Kind of a dark dirty green. :-)
>>
>>
>> But I wish I had been using a Festool router. I could have filled a 5
>> gallon bucket with sawdust from this run. IIRC the Festool routers also
>> have great dust control.
>>
>
> Guess I blew that joke. :-(
> Hey man, all you need is a broom and a dust pan. :-p
>
>

:-)

On Wednesday, January 24, 2018 at 1:14:26 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> Leon <[email protected]> wrote:
> > -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> On 1/23/18 11:59 PM, Leon wrote:
> >>> [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>> Hey MIKE and Leon...
> >>>>
> >>>> Looked at the links with keen interest. It is my imagination, or are
> >>>> router bids less expensive or at least holding their prices?
> >>>>
> >>>> I had a couple of projects to do about 10 years ago where I edged all the
> >>>> trim by hand for a client. It wasn't a ton (500' or so) and I didn't
> >>>> want to buy Amana, CMT or others because of the price, so I went with
> >>>> MLCS since they told me that if I didn't like them I could return them. I
> >>>> liked the bits and put a couple of my contractor buddies on to them and
> >>>> they used their door sets with great success.
> >>>>
> >>>> Best for them was the fact that they were literally 30-40% less than the
> >>>> big guys. Now MLCS is cheaper than I remember, and likewise the bits on
> >>>> the links you posted.
> >>>>
> >>>> Is it my imagination? Are production methods to the point where these
> >>>> guys can hold the line on pricing?
> >>>>
> >>>> Robert
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Funny you should ask. I think they are getting cheaper. I bought 3
> >>> carbide top bearing flush cut 1/2" diameter bits. 1/4" shank and 1/2",
> >>> 3/4", and 1" Long. Amazon Prime delivered in 2 days, $13.88.
> >>>
> >>> I just needed the 3/4" Long one but for that price the more the merrier.
> >>> And I expected to total the bit.
> >>>
> >>> Today I plunge cut 25, 36" Long runs about 9/16" deep into 1/2" birch
> >>> multiply plywood. The bit was always cutting on its right, left, and
> >>> leading edge. I was hogging out a ton of material. The bit still feels
> >>> sharp. I used my small Makita trim router.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Makita!? That's not green. :-p
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Yes it is.
> >
> >
>
> Kind of a dark dirty green. :-)
>
>
> But I wish I had been using a Festool router. I could have filled a 5
> gallon bucket with sawdust from this run. IIRC the Festool routers also
> have great dust control.

I was searching the web to see if anybody had a DC adapter for my PC690
router. Back in 2010, somebody was asking about the same thing in a
DIY forum. He needed to about 50 dados and said that he didn't have a
table saw.

I chuckled at this response:

"I don't believe there is an aftermarket port for (the 690) router to do off-
edge routing. Festool makes a router with a built in dust collection port.

http://www.mcfeelys.com/product/574267 (bad link)

At this list price, you could get a decent table saw."

;-)

On Wednesday, January 24, 2018 at 12:59:10 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Hey MIKE and Leon...
> >
> > Looked at the links with keen interest. It is my imagination, or are
> > router bids less expensive or at least holding their prices?
> >
> > I had a couple of projects to do about 10 years ago where I edged all the
> > trim by hand for a client. It wasn't a ton (500' or so) and I didn't
> > want to buy Amana, CMT or others because of the price, so I went with
> > MLCS since they told me that if I didn't like them I could return them. I
> > liked the bits and put a couple of my contractor buddies on to them and
> > they used their door sets with great success.
> >
> > Best for them was the fact that they were literally 30-40% less than the
> > big guys. Now MLCS is cheaper than I remember, and likewise the bits on
> > the links you posted.
> >
> > Is it my imagination? Are production methods to the point where these
> > guys can hold the line on pricing?
> >
> > Robert
> >
>
> Funny you should ask. I think they are getting cheaper. I bought 3
> carbide top bearing flush cut 1/2" diameter bits. 1/4" shank and 1/2",
> 3/4", and 1" Long. Amazon Prime delivered in 2 days, $13.88.

What brand? More specifically, what are your thoughts on Whiteside bits?

>
> I just needed the 3/4" Long one but for that price the more the merrier.
> And I expected to total the bit.
>
> Today I plunge cut 25, 36" Long runs about 9/16" deep into 1/2" birch
> multiply plywood. The bit was always cutting on its right, left, and
> leading edge. I was hogging out a ton of material. The bit still feels
> sharp. I used my small Makita trim router.

For that much work, why didn't you go with a full size router? Lack of support?

On Saturday, February 3, 2018 at 9:53:53 AM UTC-6, Sonny wrote:

>=20
> Couple of pics, scroll right: https://www.flickr.com/photos/43836144@N04=
/25188486567/in/dateposted-public/
>=20

This profile seems about 30=C2=B0..... I didn't try to measure it. This p=
rofile might be good enough, as is, no grinding.

Sonny

On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 12:46:35 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> On 1/22/2018 10:36 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> > How do you build doors like this one? Frame and panel, M&T joinery, inside
> > edge is chamfered.
> >
> > https://tinyurl.com/ChamferDoor
> >
> > Full link:
> >
> > https://www.homecrestcabinetry.com/-/media/homecrest/products/door_styles/dover/dover_maple_shaker_cabinet_door_natural.jpg
> >
> > Does the chamfer extend all the way to the ends of the stiles with a
> > matching "inside chamfer" (?) on the ends of the rails to create the
> > crisp corner?
>
> Yes.
>
>
> >
> > This guys cleans up the corners after routing the assembled frame, but I
> > can't see (me) doing that for the 120+ corners I'd need to clean up for my
> > kitchen doors and drawers.
> >
> Not > http://www.wooditis.com/attention-to-detail/
>
> A lot more work.
>
>
> >
> > I'm sure hoping that there is some router table/table saw trick that
> > I don't know about.
> >
>
> See Mike's link. Rail and stile router bits come in all styles.

Mike's link is a start, but I'll keep looking. I don't think that bit - unless it's adjustable with
washers - is the same profile. That appears to be a full chamfer while the style I'm looking for
is shallower.

On Thursday, February 1, 2018 at 11:23:21 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 2/1/18 9:57 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> > On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 7:37:13 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
> >
> > ...snip...
> >
> >>
> >> You could use any number of those bits and then run the stiles through
> >> the table saw at 45degress to get your chamfer.
> >> You would end up with a tiny little hollow triangle at the joint, but
> >> you may not notice it, or you could fill it with putty.
> >>
> >
> > I ran a full length chamfer on the rails and a stopped chamfer on the
> > stiles. After I assembled the doors, I filled the "over shoot" with
> > Durham's RockHard, then chiseled the chamfer square. I still need to do
> > a little cleanup, but they are coming out pretty good.
> >
> > They are going to be painted, so I'm going to lose some detail, but so
> > be it.
> >
> > https://i.imgur.com/y9jFZCJ.jpg
> >
>
> Looks great.
>
>

Thanks.

On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 11:03:19 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> On 1/23/2018 9:47 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> > On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 10:16:28 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> >> On 1/23/2018 5:59 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> >>> On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 12:46:35 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> >>>> On 1/22/2018 10:36 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> >>>>> How do you build doors like this one? Frame and panel, M&T joinery, inside
> >>>>> edge is chamfered.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://tinyurl.com/ChamferDoor
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Full link:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://www.homecrestcabinetry.com/-/media/homecrest/products/door_styles/dover/dover_maple_shaker_cabinet_door_natural.jpg
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Does the chamfer extend all the way to the ends of the stiles with a
> >>>>> matching "inside chamfer" (?) on the ends of the rails to create the
> >>>>> crisp corner?
> >>>>
> >>>> Yes.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> This guys cleans up the corners after routing the assembled frame, but I
> >>>>> can't see (me) doing that for the 120+ corners I'd need to clean up for my
> >>>>> kitchen doors and drawers.
> >>>>>
> >>>> Not > http://www.wooditis.com/attention-to-detail/
> >>>>
> >>>> A lot more work.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'm sure hoping that there is some router table/table saw trick that
> >>>>> I don't know about.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> See Mike's link. Rail and stile router bits come in all styles.
> >>>
> >>> Mike's link is a start, but I'll keep looking. I don't think that bit - unless it's adjustable with
> >>> washers - is the same profile. That appears to be a full chamfer while the style I'm looking for
> >>> is shallower.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Look here
> >>
> >> https://www.infinitytools.com/routing/router-bits/carbide/door-making-router-bits/rail-stile-router-bits-for-cabinet-doors
> >>
> >>
> >> Now look at the profile pictures below the big picture of the bit set.
> >> Go to set 91-504. Scroll down to the pricing of that set. $89.00
> >> including a set up block.
> >
> > Thanks, but 91-504 is not the profile I am trying to achieve. That profile appears to
> > be flat-chamfer-flat. I'm looking for chamfer-flat.
>
> Understood, adjust the cutter up about 1/16".
>
> >
> > If you look closely at this image, you will see that the chamfer starts on the outside face of
> > frame and ends part way down the inside edge of the frame. Imagine that instead of just
> > softening the inside edge of the frame with a quick sanding, I want to chamfer that edge
> > about halfway down towards the panel.
> >
> > https://tinyurl.com/ChamferDoor
>
> Understood, see above.
>
>
>
> >
> > I could probably set the height of that bit to eliminate the outer flat section, but that would
> > move the groove up also and I'd lose the reveal that I am going for - unless the bit is
> > adjustable via washers - which it does not appear to be.
> >
>
> Correct! But I think the groove would only be 1/16" closer to the face
> of the frame if you raised the bit 1/16" to eliminate the top flat area
> just before the chamfer begins. If you are using flat panels for the
> door inserts it might be hard to tell the difference.
> And maybe you want more flat below the chamfer, that would certainly
> require a different bit.
>
> BUT, basically I wanted to show you that this is the style bit you are
> looking for.
>
> Give Infinity a call, IIRC they are a small spin off company, son of the
> owner of the original Jaseda bit company.

I will call them later. I called Freud, who makes adjustable R&S bits like the 99-760 1/4" round-
over set, but they don't make an adjustable chamfer profile.

I know the profile I want exists, because SWMBO saw it at HD and we both like it. I want more
reveal than plain old boring "centered" and the chamfer softens the depth nicely.

On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 10:36:09 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> How do you build doors like this one? Frame and panel, M&T joinery, insid=
e
> edge is chamfered.
>=20
> https://tinyurl.com/ChamferDoor
>=20

>=20
> This guys cleans up the corners after routing the assembled frame, but I
> can't see (me) doing that for the 120+ corners I'd need to clean up for m=
y=20
> kitchen doors and drawers.

As best I understand, your doors are already built, right? And you want t=
o chamfer the inside panel frame edges, right? You need, or looking for, =
a non-bearing bit whose profile is 45=C2=B0, right? =20

Also, if so, I suppose you are using a hand held router, aligning auxiliary=
fence(s) for guidance.

I can mail you this one. You'd need to SLOW grind the profile, a little, =
to make it 45=C2=B0. When grinding, make sure its ground equally, so that=
the bit is balanced. When done, mail it back to me. Is my initial assu=
mptions (as to presently assembled doors) correct... if so, is this bit an =
option for you? The bit is 1/2" shaft.

Couple of pics, scroll right: https://www.flickr.com/photos/43836144@N04/2=
5188486567/in/dateposted-public/

I might have another bit that I could give you, though it'd require more gr=
inding, than the pictured one. I'll have to look further for another one.

Sonny

On 1/22/2018 10:36 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> How do you build doors like this one? Frame and panel, M&T joinery, inside
> edge is chamfered.
>
> https://tinyurl.com/ChamferDoor
>
> Full link:
>
> https://www.homecrestcabinetry.com/-/media/homecrest/products/door_styles/dover/dover_maple_shaker_cabinet_door_natural.jpg
>
> Does the chamfer extend all the way to the ends of the stiles with a
> matching "inside chamfer" (?) on the ends of the rails to create the
> crisp corner?

Yes.


>
> This guys cleans up the corners after routing the assembled frame, but I
> can't see (me) doing that for the 120+ corners I'd need to clean up for my
> kitchen doors and drawers.
>
Not > http://www.wooditis.com/attention-to-detail/

A lot more work.


>
> I'm sure hoping that there is some router table/table saw trick that
> I don't know about.
>

See Mike's link. Rail and stile router bits come in all styles.

On 1/23/2018 10:33 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 11:03:19 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>> On 1/23/2018 9:47 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 10:16:28 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>>>> On 1/23/2018 5:59 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>>>> On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 12:46:35 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>>>>>> On 1/22/2018 10:36 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>>>>>> How do you build doors like this one? Frame and panel, M&T joinery, inside
>>>>>>> edge is chamfered.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://tinyurl.com/ChamferDoor
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Full link:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.homecrestcabinetry.com/-/media/homecrest/products/door_styles/dover/dover_maple_shaker_cabinet_door_natural.jpg
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Does the chamfer extend all the way to the ends of the stiles with a
>>>>>>> matching "inside chamfer" (?) on the ends of the rails to create the
>>>>>>> crisp corner?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This guys cleans up the corners after routing the assembled frame, but I
>>>>>>> can't see (me) doing that for the 120+ corners I'd need to clean up for my
>>>>>>> kitchen doors and drawers.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not > http://www.wooditis.com/attention-to-detail/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A lot more work.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm sure hoping that there is some router table/table saw trick that
>>>>>>> I don't know about.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> See Mike's link. Rail and stile router bits come in all styles.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mike's link is a start, but I'll keep looking. I don't think that bit - unless it's adjustable with
>>>>> washers - is the same profile. That appears to be a full chamfer while the style I'm looking for
>>>>> is shallower.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Look here
>>>>
>>>> https://www.infinitytools.com/routing/router-bits/carbide/door-making-router-bits/rail-stile-router-bits-for-cabinet-doors
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Now look at the profile pictures below the big picture of the bit set.
>>>> Go to set 91-504. Scroll down to the pricing of that set. $89.00
>>>> including a set up block.
>>>
>>> Thanks, but 91-504 is not the profile I am trying to achieve. That profile appears to
>>> be flat-chamfer-flat. I'm looking for chamfer-flat.
>>
>> Understood, adjust the cutter up about 1/16".
>>
>>>
>>> If you look closely at this image, you will see that the chamfer starts on the outside face of
>>> frame and ends part way down the inside edge of the frame. Imagine that instead of just
>>> softening the inside edge of the frame with a quick sanding, I want to chamfer that edge
>>> about halfway down towards the panel.
>>>
>>> https://tinyurl.com/ChamferDoor
>>
>> Understood, see above.
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> I could probably set the height of that bit to eliminate the outer flat section, but that would
>>> move the groove up also and I'd lose the reveal that I am going for - unless the bit is
>>> adjustable via washers - which it does not appear to be.
>>>
>>
>> Correct! But I think the groove would only be 1/16" closer to the face
>> of the frame if you raised the bit 1/16" to eliminate the top flat area
>> just before the chamfer begins. If you are using flat panels for the
>> door inserts it might be hard to tell the difference.
>> And maybe you want more flat below the chamfer, that would certainly
>> require a different bit.
>>
>> BUT, basically I wanted to show you that this is the style bit you are
>> looking for.
>>
>> Give Infinity a call, IIRC they are a small spin off company, son of the
>> owner of the original Jaseda bit company.
>
> I will call them later. I called Freud, who makes adjustable R&S bits like the 99-760 1/4" round-
> over set, but they don't make an adjustable chamfer profile.
>
> I know the profile I want exists, because SWMBO saw it at HD and we both like it. I want more
> reveal than plain old boring "centered" and the chamfer softens the depth nicely.
>

Well, just because it exists does not mean it is available. What you
both may have seen is a proprietary design that only the manufacturer
has. BUT you will likely find something close enough.

On 2/2/2018 10:02 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 2/2/18 6:17 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Thursday, February 1, 2018 at 10:57:06 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 7:37:13 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>
>>> ...snip...
>>>
>>>>
>>>> You could use any number of those bits and then run the stiles
>>>> through the table saw at 45degress to get your chamfer. You
>>>> would end up with a tiny little hollow triangle at the joint, but
>>>> you may not notice it, or you could fill it with putty.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I ran a full length chamfer on the rails and a stopped chamfer on the
>>> stiles. After I assembled the doors, I filled the "over shoot" with
>>> Durham's RockHard, then chiseled the chamfer square. I still need to
>>> do a little cleanup, but they are coming out pretty good.
>>>
>>> They are going to be painted, so I'm going to lose some detail,
>>> but so be it.
>>>
>>> https://i.imgur.com/y9jFZCJ.jpg
>>
>> Looks good...did you consider using a router after the glue up and
>> using a sharp chisel to finish the inside corner? With a simple
>> chamfer it seems do-able. A more complicated profile might not be as
>> simple... In any case, as have said others, ya dunn gud!
>>
>
> His original post about this had a link pointing to how to do just that.
> I think it would be faster.
> Doing a perfect chisel cut on one is difficult.
> Doing it on 25 will be easy because by the 3rd one he will have
> developed a good technique and he'll fly through the rest with perfect
> results.
LOL, Probably right. But for me, I would have it all figured on number
24. I would keep experimenting for the perfect way.


>
> Reminds me of the experiment a ceramics professor did at the school
> where I used to work.
> He split the class into two groups.  He told each class they had the
> entire quarter to finish the project.
> Group A's assignment was to produce one perfect ceramic pot.
> Group B's assignment was to produce 100 pots, irrespective of quality.
>
> At the end of the quarter, Group A had produced a decent ceramic pot
> with some minor flaws, struggling to meet the deadline.
>
> About 2 months into the quarter, Group B had produced a few ceramic pots
> of poor quality, a few more of decent quality, about a dozen of the
> quality of Groups A's single ceramic pot, and about 80 absolutely
> perfect ceramic pots.
>
>
I responded above before reading the ceramics experiment. I wonder if
the 80 perfect ones were the last to be produced or closer to he first. LOL

DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> writes:
>On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 11:03:19 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:

>
>I know the profile I want exists, because SWMBO saw it at HD and we both like it. I want more
>reveal than plain old boring "centered" and the chamfer softens the depth nicely.

It's more than likely the production stuff you saw at HD was built
using stacked shaper cutters rather than a router.

On Saturday, February 3, 2018 at 10:53:53 AM UTC-5, Sonny wrote:
> On Monday, January 22, 2018 at 10:36:09 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> > How do you build doors like this one? Frame and panel, M&T joinery, ins=
ide
> > edge is chamfered.
> >=20
> > https://tinyurl.com/ChamferDoor
> >=20
>=20
> >=20
> > This guys cleans up the corners after routing the assembled frame, but =
I
> > can't see (me) doing that for the 120+ corners I'd need to clean up for=
my=20
> > kitchen doors and drawers.
>=20
> As best I understand, your doors are already built, right? And you want=
to chamfer the inside panel frame edges, right? You need, or looking for=
, a non-bearing bit whose profile is 45=C2=B0, right? =20

No, Yes and Yes. ;-)

The doors for the current bookcase project is are already built and the=20
chamfers have been done. In fact, they are ready for primer.

>=20
> Also, if so, I suppose you are using a hand held router, aligning auxilia=
ry fence(s) for guidance.

Maybe. For the bookcase doors I used a router table, did the chamfers befor=
e
assembly and then "fixed" the corners with RockHard and a chisel.

https://i.imgur.com/y9jFZCJ.jpg=20

As far as the doors for the rest of the kitchen, depending on which of
the various solutions I've been offered, I may indeed be using a handheld
router.


>=20
> I can mail you this one. You'd need to SLOW grind the profile, a little=
, to make it 45=C2=B0. When grinding, make sure its ground equally, so th=
at the bit is balanced. When done, mail it back to me. Is my initial as=
sumptions (as to presently assembled doors) correct... if so, is this bit a=
n option for you? The bit is 1/2" shaft.

I appreciate the offer, but I'm going to respectfully pass. I think I have
enough viable options to get it done. I may even go as far as changing the=
=20
profile slightly to use available cope-and-stick sets such as Infinity offe=
rs.
The bookcase set I am building for the kitchen will not be near the rest of
the cabinets and might not even be painted the same color. The doors will=
=20
still be shaker-ish, but I don't think that a slightly different (and faste=
r
to make) profile will be a problem.=20


>=20
> Couple of pics, scroll right: https://www.flickr.com/photos/43836144@N04=
/25188486567/in/dateposted-public/
>=20
> I might have another bit that I could give you, though it'd require more =
grinding, than the pictured one. I'll have to look further for another on=
e.

Thanks, but don't trouble yourself.

Seriously, thank you very much for the offer.

>=20
> Sonny

On Friday, February 2, 2018 at 8:02:19 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 2/2/18 6:17 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> > On Friday, February 2, 2018 at 6:07:35 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
> >> On 2/2/18 4:20 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> >>> On Friday, February 2, 2018 at 11:02:43 AM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
> >>>> On 2/2/18 6:17 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> >>>>> On Thursday, February 1, 2018 at 10:57:06 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>> On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 7:37:13 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ...snip...
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> You could use any number of those bits and then run the stiles
> >>>>>>> through the table saw at 45degress to get your chamfer. You
> >>>>>>> would end up with a tiny little hollow triangle at the joint, but
> >>>>>>> you may not notice it, or you could fill it with putty.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I ran a full length chamfer on the rails and a stopped chamfer on
> >>>>>> the stiles. After I assembled the doors, I filled the "over shoot"
> >>>>>> with Durham's RockHard, then chiseled the chamfer square. I still
> >>>>>> need to do a little cleanup, but they are coming out pretty good.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> They are going to be painted, so I'm going to lose some detail,
> >>>>>> but so be it.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> https://i.imgur.com/y9jFZCJ.jpg
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Looks good...did you consider using a router after the glue up and
> >>>>> using a sharp chisel to finish the inside corner? With a simple
> >>>>> chamfer it seems do-able. A more complicated profile might not be as
> >>>>> simple... In any case, as have said others, ya dunn gud!
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> His original post about this had a link pointing to how to do just that.
> >>>> I think it would be faster.
> >>>
> >>> I'm the rookie here, so tell me what I am missing.
> >>>
> >>> The link in my OP shows a guy squaring up a chamfer on an open frame. I'm
> >>> working on a door with a panel. I'm not seeing how the profile I want can
> >>> be created after the door is assembled. Neither of chamfer bits I have
> >>> would work.
> >>>
> >>> https://i.imgur.com/DYP09CE.jpg
> >>>
> >>> Perhaps building a pattern would work, but even with the four doors on
> >>> this project, there are 2 different sizes. Once I start on the kitchen
> >>> doors, there are at least 10 different sizes.
> >>>
> >>>> Doing a perfect chisel cut on one is difficult.
> >>>> Doing it on 25 will be easy because by the 3rd one he will have
> >>>> developed a good technique and he'll fly through the rest with perfect
> >>>> results.
> >>>
> >>> The thing is that with real wood if you screw it up, you're screwed.
> >>> With filler, you can keep filling it until you get it right. Now, I'm not
> >>> saying that I had to refill any of the 16 corners that I just did, I'm just
> >>> saying that there's a fix available should one need one. ;-)
> >>>
> >>
> >> There's a really cheap 45degree bearing bit out there that doesn't have
> >> a bearing at all. It just had a round shaft that protrudes up. The
> >> shaft acts as the bearing surface for the bit to ride on.
> >> The shaft might be short enough for your application. If it wasn't, you
> >> could probably grind it down so it would be.
> >
> > I doubt these are cheap, but I get the idea. Thanks.
> >
> > https://www.infinitytools.com/blog/2017/07/11/why-you-need-brass-pilot-roundover-and-chamfer-woodworking-router-bits/
> >
>
> 25 bucks for the chamfer version ain't bad, especially considering the
> quality of that company.
>

$30 with 10 day shipping, but you are right. I hadn't looked up the price before I posted. I
was surprised it was that cheap. It might be worth giving it a try when I'm ready to do the
rest of the kitchen, but that's going to be a while.

On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 6:39:59 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 1/23/18 1:02 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> > On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 12:45:10 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> >> On 1/23/2018 10:33 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> >>> On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 11:03:19 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> >>>> On 1/23/2018 9:47 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> >>>>> On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 10:16:28 AM UTC-5, Leon
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>> On 1/23/2018 5:59 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 12:46:35 AM UTC-5, Leon
> >>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On 1/22/2018 10:36 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> How do you build doors like this one? Frame and
> >>>>>>>>> panel, M&T joinery, inside edge is chamfered.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> https://tinyurl.com/ChamferDoor
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Full link:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> https://www.homecrestcabinetry.com/-/media/homecrest/products/door_styles/dover/dover_maple_shaker_cabinet_door_natural.jpg
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> Does the chamfer extend all the way to the ends of the stiles with a
> >>>>>>>>> matching "inside chamfer" (?) on the ends of the
> >>>>>>>>> rails to create the crisp corner?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Yes.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> This guys cleans up the corners after routing the
> >>>>>>>>> assembled frame, but I can't see (me) doing that for
> >>>>>>>>> the 120+ corners I'd need to clean up for my kitchen
> >>>>>>>>> doors and drawers.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Not > http://www.wooditis.com/attention-to-detail/
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> A lot more work.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I'm sure hoping that there is some router table/table
> >>>>>>>>> saw trick that I don't know about.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> See Mike's link. Rail and stile router bits come in
> >>>>>>>> all styles.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Mike's link is a start, but I'll keep looking. I don't
> >>>>>>> think that bit - unless it's adjustable with washers - is
> >>>>>>> the same profile. That appears to be a full chamfer while
> >>>>>>> the style I'm looking for is shallower.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Look here
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> https://www.infinitytools.com/routing/router-bits/carbide/door-making-router-bits/rail-stile-router-bits-for-cabinet-doors
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> Now look at the profile pictures below the big picture of the bit set.
> >>>>>> Go to set 91-504. Scroll down to the pricing of that set.
> >>>>>> $89.00 including a set up block.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thanks, but 91-504 is not the profile I am trying to achieve.
> >>>>> That profile appears to be flat-chamfer-flat. I'm looking for
> >>>>> chamfer-flat.
> >>>>
> >>>> Understood, adjust the cutter up about 1/16".
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If you look closely at this image, you will see that the
> >>>>> chamfer starts on the outside face of frame and ends part way
> >>>>> down the inside edge of the frame. Imagine that instead of
> >>>>> just softening the inside edge of the frame with a quick
> >>>>> sanding, I want to chamfer that edge about halfway down
> >>>>> towards the panel.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://tinyurl.com/ChamferDoor
> >>>>
> >>>> Understood, see above.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I could probably set the height of that bit to eliminate the
> >>>>> outer flat section, but that would move the groove up also
> >>>>> and I'd lose the reveal that I am going for - unless the bit
> >>>>> is adjustable via washers - which it does not appear to be.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Correct! But I think the groove would only be 1/16" closer to
> >>>> the face of the frame if you raised the bit 1/16" to eliminate
> >>>> the top flat area just before the chamfer begins. If you are
> >>>> using flat panels for the door inserts it might be hard to tell
> >>>> the difference. And maybe you want more flat below the chamfer,
> >>>> that would certainly require a different bit.
> >>>>
> >>>> BUT, basically I wanted to show you that this is the style bit
> >>>> you are looking for.
> >>>>
> >>>> Give Infinity a call, IIRC they are a small spin off company,
> >>>> son of the owner of the original Jaseda bit company.
> >>>
> >>> I will call them later. I called Freud, who makes adjustable R&S
> >>> bits like the 99-760 1/4" round- over set, but they don't make an
> >>> adjustable chamfer profile.
> >>>
> >>> I know the profile I want exists, because SWMBO saw it at HD and
> >>> we both like it. I want more reveal than plain old boring
> >>> "centered" and the chamfer softens the depth nicely.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Well, just because it exists does not mean it is available. What
> >> you both may have seen is a proprietary design that only the
> >> manufacturer has. BUT you will likely find something close
> >> enough.
> >
> > Yes, I had considered that possibility/issue, although it's hard to
> > believe that such a simple profile isn't readily available.
> >
> > I called Infinity and the rep doesn't think they carry what I want,
> > at least not based on my verbal description. She asked that I send
> > them a picture of the profile that I want so she can show it to her
> > techs. "Maybe they can think of something that will help" I sent them
> > this.
> >
> > https://imgur.com/a/3qyBS
> >
> > I'll let you know what they say. Thanks for the nudge in the right
> > direction.
> >
>
> Honestly, the original link you posted where the guy used a router, then
> cut the edges by hand... you'd be surprised at how good and fast you'd
> get at that using a scary-sharp chisel.
>
>

I need to think about that whole process. To route after the door is assembled
might be possible, based on bit length, cut depth, etc. If that can't be done,
because the panel is in the way, then I'll need to build an adjustable
holding jig to hold the frame for routing, then insert the panel before
gluing.

Certainly doable.

On Thursday, February 1, 2018 at 11:56:58 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> wrote:
> > On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 7:37:13 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
> >
> > ...snip...
> >
> >>
> >> You could use any number of those bits and then run the stiles through
> >> the table saw at 45degress to get your chamfer.
> >> You would end up with a tiny little hollow triangle at the joint, but
> >> you may not notice it, or you could fill it with putty.
> >>
> >
> > I ran a full length chamfer on the rails and a stopped chamfer on the
> > stiles. After I assembled the doors, I filled the "over shoot" with
> > Durham's RockHard, then chiseled the chamfer square. I still need to do
> > a little cleanup, but they are coming out pretty good.
> >
> > They are going to be painted, so I'm going to lose some detail, but so
> > be it.
> >
> > https://i.imgur.com/y9jFZCJ.jpg
> >
>
> Hey! You did good, Nice!

Thanks. Now I have to go read that thread about sharpening chisels. ;-)

Still, for 4 doors on the bookcase project, this was OK. The 25+ doors, drawers, panels, etc.
for the rest of the kitchen is going to be pretty time consuming. I may rethink the chamfer/vertical
profile design and buy the bit set that produces the full chamfer and the matching cope.

Hey MIKE and Leon...

Looked at the links with keen interest. It is my imagination, or are route=
r bids less expensive or at least holding their prices? =20

I had a couple of projects to do about 10 years ago where I edged all the t=
rim by hand for a client. It wasn't a ton (500' or so) and I didn't want t=
o buy Amana, CMT or others because of the price, so I went with MLCS since =
they told me that if I didn't like them I could return them. I liked the bi=
ts and put a couple of my contractor buddies on to them and they used their=
door sets with great success.

Best for them was the fact that they were literally 30-40% less than the bi=
g guys. Now MLCS is cheaper than I remember, and likewise the bits on the =
links you posted.

Is it my imagination? Are production methods to the point where these guys =
can hold the line on pricing?

Robert

On 1/22/2018 11:43 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 12:26:26 AM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 1/22/18 10:36 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>> How do you build doors like this one? Frame and panel, M&T joinery, inside
>>> edge is chamfered.
>>>
>>> https://tinyurl.com/ChamferDoor
>>>
>>> Full link:
>>>
>>> https://www.homecrestcabinetry.com/-/media/homecrest/products/door_styles/dover/dover_maple_shaker_cabinet_door_natural.jpg
>>>
>>> Does the chamfer extend all the way to the ends of the stiles with a
>>> matching "inside chamfer" (?) on the ends of the rails to create the
>>> crisp corner?
>>>
>>> This guys cleans up the corners after routing the assembled frame, but I
>>> can't see (me) doing that for the 120+ corners I'd need to clean up for my
>>> kitchen doors and drawers.
>>>
>>> http://www.wooditis.com/attention-to-detail/
>>>
>>> I'm sure hoping that there is some router table/table saw trick that
>>> I don't know about.
>>>
>>
>> http://www.rockler.com/2-piece-rail-stile-shaker-cutter-bit-set
>>
>>
>
> That bit looks like it cuts the chamfer all the way down to the slot. Do you know if the
> bits come apart so that you can use washers to make a shallower chamfer and leave
> some "flat" wood between the chamfer and the panel?
>

It would depend on the set. With some sets adding washers or
repositioning a cutter results in a misfit. IIRC some sets allow this.
It appears that if you shim a cutter to leave a flat space you may end
up having to make a double pass with or with out some cutters. IMHO
running a second pass may ruin the profile or allow a loose fit. I
would look for a bit set that matches you needs with out extra set up.

On Saturday, February 3, 2018 at 1:23:02 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 2/2/18 4:20 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> > Perhaps building a pattern would work, but even with the four doors
> > on this project, there are 2 different sizes. Once I start on the
> > kitchen doors, there are at least 10 different sizes.
> >
>
> I was thinking about this and I don't think it would take very long to
> set up a pattern for *all* doors.
>
> The offset for each door would be the same, and the distance to
> stop/turn the router at the corners is the same for each door. The only
> thing that changes is the length and width of each door, but you don't
> really need to worry about that if you set op a corner jig.
>
> A corner jig could be attached to a work table.
> The jig would have guide fences for the door that are attached to the
> work table.
> Straight router guide rails would attach on top of the door fences, and
> be set at a distance equal to the offset of your router base, starting
> from the inside edges of the rails/stiles.
>
> Now just set a door corner in the guide jig, run the router through that
> corner, stopping a little more than half way down/across the top and
> side. Then rotate the door 90degrees in the jig and repeat 3x per door.
> Quick release cam hold-downs screwed to the jig would facilitate
> efficient clamping.
>


Hey, thanks for doing that work. That's an interesting idea. I'll keep
it in mind when that project starts (again).

On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 12:26:26 AM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 1/22/18 10:36 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> > How do you build doors like this one? Frame and panel, M&T joinery, inside
> > edge is chamfered.
> >
> > https://tinyurl.com/ChamferDoor
> >
> > Full link:
> >
> > https://www.homecrestcabinetry.com/-/media/homecrest/products/door_styles/dover/dover_maple_shaker_cabinet_door_natural.jpg
> >
> > Does the chamfer extend all the way to the ends of the stiles with a
> > matching "inside chamfer" (?) on the ends of the rails to create the
> > crisp corner?
> >
> > This guys cleans up the corners after routing the assembled frame, but I
> > can't see (me) doing that for the 120+ corners I'd need to clean up for my
> > kitchen doors and drawers.
> >
> > http://www.wooditis.com/attention-to-detail/
> >
> > I'm sure hoping that there is some router table/table saw trick that
> > I don't know about.
> >
>
> http://www.rockler.com/2-piece-rail-stile-shaker-cutter-bit-set
>
>

That bit looks like it cuts the chamfer all the way down to the slot. Do you know if the
bits come apart so that you can use washers to make a shallower chamfer and leave
some "flat" wood between the chamfer and the panel?

On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 10:16:28 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> On 1/23/2018 5:59 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> > On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 12:46:35 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> >> On 1/22/2018 10:36 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> >>> How do you build doors like this one? Frame and panel, M&T joinery, inside
> >>> edge is chamfered.
> >>>
> >>> https://tinyurl.com/ChamferDoor
> >>>
> >>> Full link:
> >>>
> >>> https://www.homecrestcabinetry.com/-/media/homecrest/products/door_styles/dover/dover_maple_shaker_cabinet_door_natural.jpg
> >>>
> >>> Does the chamfer extend all the way to the ends of the stiles with a
> >>> matching "inside chamfer" (?) on the ends of the rails to create the
> >>> crisp corner?
> >>
> >> Yes.
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> This guys cleans up the corners after routing the assembled frame, but I
> >>> can't see (me) doing that for the 120+ corners I'd need to clean up for my
> >>> kitchen doors and drawers.
> >>>
> >> Not > http://www.wooditis.com/attention-to-detail/
> >>
> >> A lot more work.
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> I'm sure hoping that there is some router table/table saw trick that
> >>> I don't know about.
> >>>
> >>
> >> See Mike's link. Rail and stile router bits come in all styles.
> >
> > Mike's link is a start, but I'll keep looking. I don't think that bit - unless it's adjustable with
> > washers - is the same profile. That appears to be a full chamfer while the style I'm looking for
> > is shallower.
> >
>
> Look here
>
> https://www.infinitytools.com/routing/router-bits/carbide/door-making-router-bits/rail-stile-router-bits-for-cabinet-doors
>
>
> Now look at the profile pictures below the big picture of the bit set.
> Go to set 91-504. Scroll down to the pricing of that set. $89.00
> including a set up block.

Thanks, but 91-504 is not the profile I am trying to achieve. That profile appears to
be flat-chamfer-flat. I'm looking for chamfer-flat.

If you look closely at this image, you will see that the chamfer starts on the outside face of
frame and ends part way down the inside edge of the frame. Imagine that instead of just
softening the inside edge of the frame with a quick sanding, I want to chamfer that edge
about halfway down towards the panel.

https://tinyurl.com/ChamferDoor

I could probably set the height of that bit to eliminate the outer flat section, but that would
move the groove up also and I'd lose the reveal that I am going for - unless the bit is
adjustable via washers - which it does not appear to be.

On 1/22/18 10:36 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> How do you build doors like this one? Frame and panel, M&T joinery, inside
> edge is chamfered.
>
> https://tinyurl.com/ChamferDoor
>
> Full link:
>
> https://www.homecrestcabinetry.com/-/media/homecrest/products/door_styles/dover/dover_maple_shaker_cabinet_door_natural.jpg
>
> Does the chamfer extend all the way to the ends of the stiles with a
> matching "inside chamfer" (?) on the ends of the rails to create the
> crisp corner?
>
> This guys cleans up the corners after routing the assembled frame, but I
> can't see (me) doing that for the 120+ corners I'd need to clean up for my
> kitchen doors and drawers.
>
> http://www.wooditis.com/attention-to-detail/
>
> I'm sure hoping that there is some router table/table saw trick that
> I don't know about.
>

http://www.rockler.com/2-piece-rail-stile-shaker-cutter-bit-set


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On 1/22/18 11:43 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 12:26:26 AM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 1/22/18 10:36 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>> How do you build doors like this one? Frame and panel, M&T joinery, inside
>>> edge is chamfered.
>>>
>>> https://tinyurl.com/ChamferDoor
>>>
>>> Full link:
>>>
>>> https://www.homecrestcabinetry.com/-/media/homecrest/products/door_styles/dover/dover_maple_shaker_cabinet_door_natural.jpg
>>>
>>> Does the chamfer extend all the way to the ends of the stiles with a
>>> matching "inside chamfer" (?) on the ends of the rails to create the
>>> crisp corner?
>>>
>>> This guys cleans up the corners after routing the assembled frame, but I
>>> can't see (me) doing that for the 120+ corners I'd need to clean up for my
>>> kitchen doors and drawers.
>>>
>>> http://www.wooditis.com/attention-to-detail/
>>>
>>> I'm sure hoping that there is some router table/table saw trick that
>>> I don't know about.
>>>
>>
>> http://www.rockler.com/2-piece-rail-stile-shaker-cutter-bit-set
>>
>>
>
> That bit looks like it cuts the chamfer all the way down to the slot. Do you know if the
> bits come apart so that you can use washers to make a shallower chamfer and leave
> some "flat" wood between the chamfer and the panel?
>

<https://www.toolstoday.com/2-piece-shaker-stile-rail-router-bit-set-58-78-inch-material.html>


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

"DerbyDad03" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

>> Well, just because it exists does not mean it is available. What you
>> both may have seen is a proprietary design that only the manufacturer
>> has. BUT you will likely find something close enough.
>
> Yes, I had considered that possibility/issue, although it's hard to
> believe that such a simple
> profile isn't readily available.
>
> I called Infinity and the rep doesn't think they carry what I want, at
> least not based on my
> verbal description. She asked that I send them a picture of the profile
> that I want so she can
> show it to her techs. "Maybe they can think of something that will help" I
> sent them this.
>
> https://imgur.com/a/3qyBS

All you need is a regular cope and stick bit or bits where the cutters are
removeable so you can shim or cut in two passes. These look like they could
work...
http://www.freudtools.com/index.php/products/product/99-762

http://www.freudtools.com/index.php/products/product/99-862

For that matter, you cut cut it all on a table saw but the ends of the rails
might need a small amount of hand work.

On 1/23/18 1:02 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 12:45:10 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>> On 1/23/2018 10:33 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 11:03:19 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>>>> On 1/23/2018 9:47 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>>>> On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 10:16:28 AM UTC-5, Leon
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> On 1/23/2018 5:59 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>>>>>> On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 12:46:35 AM UTC-5, Leon
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 1/22/2018 10:36 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>>>>>>>> How do you build doors like this one? Frame and
>>>>>>>>> panel, M&T joinery, inside edge is chamfered.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://tinyurl.com/ChamferDoor
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Full link:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.homecrestcabinetry.com/-/media/homecrest/products/door_styles/dover/dover_maple_shaker_cabinet_door_natural.jpg
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
Does the chamfer extend all the way to the ends of the stiles with a
>>>>>>>>> matching "inside chamfer" (?) on the ends of the
>>>>>>>>> rails to create the crisp corner?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This guys cleans up the corners after routing the
>>>>>>>>> assembled frame, but I can't see (me) doing that for
>>>>>>>>> the 120+ corners I'd need to clean up for my kitchen
>>>>>>>>> doors and drawers.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Not > http://www.wooditis.com/attention-to-detail/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A lot more work.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm sure hoping that there is some router table/table
>>>>>>>>> saw trick that I don't know about.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> See Mike's link. Rail and stile router bits come in
>>>>>>>> all styles.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mike's link is a start, but I'll keep looking. I don't
>>>>>>> think that bit - unless it's adjustable with washers - is
>>>>>>> the same profile. That appears to be a full chamfer while
>>>>>>> the style I'm looking for is shallower.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Look here
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.infinitytools.com/routing/router-bits/carbide/door-making-router-bits/rail-stile-router-bits-for-cabinet-doors
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
Now look at the profile pictures below the big picture of the bit set.
>>>>>> Go to set 91-504. Scroll down to the pricing of that set.
>>>>>> $89.00 including a set up block.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks, but 91-504 is not the profile I am trying to achieve.
>>>>> That profile appears to be flat-chamfer-flat. I'm looking for
>>>>> chamfer-flat.
>>>>
>>>> Understood, adjust the cutter up about 1/16".
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If you look closely at this image, you will see that the
>>>>> chamfer starts on the outside face of frame and ends part way
>>>>> down the inside edge of the frame. Imagine that instead of
>>>>> just softening the inside edge of the frame with a quick
>>>>> sanding, I want to chamfer that edge about halfway down
>>>>> towards the panel.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://tinyurl.com/ChamferDoor
>>>>
>>>> Understood, see above.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I could probably set the height of that bit to eliminate the
>>>>> outer flat section, but that would move the groove up also
>>>>> and I'd lose the reveal that I am going for - unless the bit
>>>>> is adjustable via washers - which it does not appear to be.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Correct! But I think the groove would only be 1/16" closer to
>>>> the face of the frame if you raised the bit 1/16" to eliminate
>>>> the top flat area just before the chamfer begins. If you are
>>>> using flat panels for the door inserts it might be hard to tell
>>>> the difference. And maybe you want more flat below the chamfer,
>>>> that would certainly require a different bit.
>>>>
>>>> BUT, basically I wanted to show you that this is the style bit
>>>> you are looking for.
>>>>
>>>> Give Infinity a call, IIRC they are a small spin off company,
>>>> son of the owner of the original Jaseda bit company.
>>>
>>> I will call them later. I called Freud, who makes adjustable R&S
>>> bits like the 99-760 1/4" round- over set, but they don't make an
>>> adjustable chamfer profile.
>>>
>>> I know the profile I want exists, because SWMBO saw it at HD and
>>> we both like it. I want more reveal than plain old boring
>>> "centered" and the chamfer softens the depth nicely.
>>>
>>
>> Well, just because it exists does not mean it is available. What
>> you both may have seen is a proprietary design that only the
>> manufacturer has. BUT you will likely find something close
>> enough.
>
> Yes, I had considered that possibility/issue, although it's hard to
> believe that such a simple profile isn't readily available.
>
> I called Infinity and the rep doesn't think they carry what I want,
> at least not based on my verbal description. She asked that I send
> them a picture of the profile that I want so she can show it to her
> techs. "Maybe they can think of something that will help" I sent them
> this.
>
> https://imgur.com/a/3qyBS
>
> I'll let you know what they say. Thanks for the nudge in the right
> direction.
>

Honestly, the original link you posted where the guy used a router, then
cut the edges by hand... you'd be surprised at how good and fast you'd
get at that using a scary-sharp chisel.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On 1/23/18 6:06 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> Hey MIKE and Leon...
>
> Looked at the links with keen interest. It is my imagination, or
> are router bids less expensive or at least holding their prices?
>
> I had a couple of projects to do about 10 years ago where I edged
> all the trim by hand for a client. It wasn't a ton (500' or so) and
> I didn't want to buy Amana, CMT or others because of the price, so I
> went with MLCS since they told me that if I didn't like them I could
> return them. I liked the bits and put a couple of my contractor
> buddies on to them and they used their door sets with great success.
>
> Best for them was the fact that they were literally 30-40% less than
> the big guys. Now MLCS is cheaper than I remember, and likewise the
> bits on the links you posted.
>
> Is it my imagination? Are production methods to the point where
> these guys can hold the line on pricing?
>
> Robert
>

It probably all has to do with China.
The quality bit makers have to compete with the MLCS types and the MLCS
types can keep going to China for cheap manufacturing.
Perhaps the high end guys are going there, now, to compete.

China doesn't have to raise their manufacturing costs to keep up with
inflation because they are communist and also have zero environmental
concerns.
They will keep making stuff as cheap as possible despite the working
conditions and pay of their workers, because we are their cash-cow, AND
we have so much debt in their coffers that we'll never rock the boat.

I'll stop there at the risk of getting into a political debate.
Suffice to say, the current administration is the only one in decades
with the balls to get us back into some fair trade arrangements with
China.
Unfortunately, we have a couple generations who have been raised on
WalMart prices for most all home goods and it'll be hard to get people
to pay more for stuff made with slave labor and no regulations.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On 1/23/18 6:25 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 6:39:59 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 1/23/18 1:02 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 12:45:10 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>>>> On 1/23/2018 10:33 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>>>> On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 11:03:19 AM UTC-5, Leon
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> On 1/23/2018 9:47 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>>>>>> On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 10:16:28 AM UTC-5, Leon
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 1/23/2018 5:59 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 12:46:35 AM UTC-5,
>>>>>>>>> Leon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 1/22/2018 10:36 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> How do you build doors like this one? Frame and
>>>>>>>>>>> panel, M&T joinery, inside edge is chamfered.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://tinyurl.com/ChamferDoor
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Full link:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.homecrestcabinetry.com/-/media/homecrest/products/door_styles/dover/dover_maple_shaker_cabinet_door_natural.jpg
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
Does the chamfer extend all the way to the ends of the stiles with a
>>>>>>>>>>> matching "inside chamfer" (?) on the ends of the
>>>>>>>>>>> rails to create the crisp corner?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yes.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This guys cleans up the corners after routing
>>>>>>>>>>> the assembled frame, but I can't see (me) doing
>>>>>>>>>>> that for the 120+ corners I'd need to clean up
>>>>>>>>>>> for my kitchen doors and drawers.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Not > http://www.wooditis.com/attention-to-detail/
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> A lot more work.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I'm sure hoping that there is some router
>>>>>>>>>>> table/table saw trick that I don't know about.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> See Mike's link. Rail and stile router bits come
>>>>>>>>>> in all styles.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Mike's link is a start, but I'll keep looking. I
>>>>>>>>> don't think that bit - unless it's adjustable with
>>>>>>>>> washers - is the same profile. That appears to be a
>>>>>>>>> full chamfer while the style I'm looking for is
>>>>>>>>> shallower.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Look here
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.infinitytools.com/routing/router-bits/carbide/door-making-router-bits/rail-stile-router-bits-for-cabinet-doors
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>
>>>>>>>>
Now look at the profile pictures below the big picture of the bit set.
>>>>>>>> Go to set 91-504. Scroll down to the pricing of that
>>>>>>>> set. $89.00 including a set up block.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks, but 91-504 is not the profile I am trying to
>>>>>>> achieve. That profile appears to be flat-chamfer-flat.
>>>>>>> I'm looking for chamfer-flat.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Understood, adjust the cutter up about 1/16".
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you look closely at this image, you will see that the
>>>>>>> chamfer starts on the outside face of frame and ends part
>>>>>>> way down the inside edge of the frame. Imagine that
>>>>>>> instead of just softening the inside edge of the frame
>>>>>>> with a quick sanding, I want to chamfer that edge about
>>>>>>> halfway down towards the panel.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://tinyurl.com/ChamferDoor
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Understood, see above.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I could probably set the height of that bit to eliminate
>>>>>>> the outer flat section, but that would move the groove up
>>>>>>> also and I'd lose the reveal that I am going for - unless
>>>>>>> the bit is adjustable via washers - which it does not
>>>>>>> appear to be.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Correct! But I think the groove would only be 1/16" closer
>>>>>> to the face of the frame if you raised the bit 1/16" to
>>>>>> eliminate the top flat area just before the chamfer begins.
>>>>>> If you are using flat panels for the door inserts it might
>>>>>> be hard to tell the difference. And maybe you want more
>>>>>> flat below the chamfer, that would certainly require a
>>>>>> different bit.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BUT, basically I wanted to show you that this is the style
>>>>>> bit you are looking for.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Give Infinity a call, IIRC they are a small spin off
>>>>>> company, son of the owner of the original Jaseda bit
>>>>>> company.
>>>>>
>>>>> I will call them later. I called Freud, who makes adjustable
>>>>> R&S bits like the 99-760 1/4" round- over set, but they don't
>>>>> make an adjustable chamfer profile.
>>>>>
>>>>> I know the profile I want exists, because SWMBO saw it at HD
>>>>> and we both like it. I want more reveal than plain old
>>>>> boring "centered" and the chamfer softens the depth nicely.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well, just because it exists does not mean it is available.
>>>> What you both may have seen is a proprietary design that only
>>>> the manufacturer has. BUT you will likely find something
>>>> close enough.
>>>
>>> Yes, I had considered that possibility/issue, although it's hard
>>> to believe that such a simple profile isn't readily available.
>>>
>>> I called Infinity and the rep doesn't think they carry what I
>>> want, at least not based on my verbal description. She asked that
>>> I send them a picture of the profile that I want so she can show
>>> it to her techs. "Maybe they can think of something that will
>>> help" I sent them this.
>>>
>>> https://imgur.com/a/3qyBS
>>>
>>> I'll let you know what they say. Thanks for the nudge in the
>>> right direction.
>>>
>>
>> Honestly, the original link you posted where the guy used a router,
>> then cut the edges by hand... you'd be surprised at how good and
>> fast you'd get at that using a scary-sharp chisel.
>>
>>
>
> I need to think about that whole process. To route after the door is
> assembled might be possible, based on bit length, cut depth, etc. If
> that can't be done, because the panel is in the way, then I'll need
> to build an adjustable holding jig to hold the frame for routing,
> then insert the panel before gluing.
>
> Certainly doable.
>

You could use any number of those bits and then run the stiles through
the table saw at 45degress to get your chamfer.
You would end up with a tiny little hollow triangle at the joint, but
you may not notice it, or you could fill it with putty.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On 1/23/18 11:59 PM, Leon wrote:
> [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Hey MIKE and Leon...
>>
>> Looked at the links with keen interest. It is my imagination, or are
>> router bids less expensive or at least holding their prices?
>>
>> I had a couple of projects to do about 10 years ago where I edged all the
>> trim by hand for a client. It wasn't a ton (500' or so) and I didn't
>> want to buy Amana, CMT or others because of the price, so I went with
>> MLCS since they told me that if I didn't like them I could return them. I
>> liked the bits and put a couple of my contractor buddies on to them and
>> they used their door sets with great success.
>>
>> Best for them was the fact that they were literally 30-40% less than the
>> big guys. Now MLCS is cheaper than I remember, and likewise the bits on
>> the links you posted.
>>
>> Is it my imagination? Are production methods to the point where these
>> guys can hold the line on pricing?
>>
>> Robert
>>
>
> Funny you should ask. I think they are getting cheaper. I bought 3
> carbide top bearing flush cut 1/2" diameter bits. 1/4" shank and 1/2",
> 3/4", and 1" Long. Amazon Prime delivered in 2 days, $13.88.
>
> I just needed the 3/4" Long one but for that price the more the merrier.
> And I expected to total the bit.
>
> Today I plunge cut 25, 36" Long runs about 9/16" deep into 1/2" birch
> multiply plywood. The bit was always cutting on its right, left, and
> leading edge. I was hogging out a ton of material. The bit still feels
> sharp. I used my small Makita trim router.
>

Makita!? That's not green. :-p


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On 1/24/18 12:14 AM, Leon wrote:
> Leon <[email protected]> wrote:
>> -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> On 1/23/18 11:59 PM, Leon wrote:
>>>> [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> Hey MIKE and Leon...
>>>>>
>>>>> Looked at the links with keen interest. It is my imagination, or are
>>>>> router bids less expensive or at least holding their prices?
>>>>>
>>>>> I had a couple of projects to do about 10 years ago where I edged all the
>>>>> trim by hand for a client. It wasn't a ton (500' or so) and I didn't
>>>>> want to buy Amana, CMT or others because of the price, so I went with
>>>>> MLCS since they told me that if I didn't like them I could return them. I
>>>>> liked the bits and put a couple of my contractor buddies on to them and
>>>>> they used their door sets with great success.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best for them was the fact that they were literally 30-40% less than the
>>>>> big guys. Now MLCS is cheaper than I remember, and likewise the bits on
>>>>> the links you posted.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is it my imagination? Are production methods to the point where these
>>>>> guys can hold the line on pricing?
>>>>>
>>>>> Robert
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Funny you should ask. I think they are getting cheaper. I bought 3
>>>> carbide top bearing flush cut 1/2" diameter bits. 1/4" shank and 1/2",
>>>> 3/4", and 1" Long. Amazon Prime delivered in 2 days, $13.88.
>>>>
>>>> I just needed the 3/4" Long one but for that price the more the merrier.
>>>> And I expected to total the bit.
>>>>
>>>> Today I plunge cut 25, 36" Long runs about 9/16" deep into 1/2" birch
>>>> multiply plywood. The bit was always cutting on its right, left, and
>>>> leading edge. I was hogging out a ton of material. The bit still feels
>>>> sharp. I used my small Makita trim router.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Makita!? That's not green. :-p
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Yes it is.
>>
>>
>
> Kind of a dark dirty green. :-)
>
>
> But I wish I had been using a Festool router. I could have filled a 5
> gallon bucket with sawdust from this run. IIRC the Festool routers also
> have great dust control.
>

Guess I blew that joke. :-(
Hey man, all you need is a broom and a dust pan. :-p


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

"DerbyDad03" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 6:31:28 PM UTC-5, dadiOH wrote:

> All you need is a regular cope and stick bit or bits where the cutters are
> removeable so you can shim or cut in two passes. These look like they
> could
> work...
> http://www.freudtools.com/index.php/products/product/99-762
>
> http://www.freudtools.com/index.php/products/product/99-862
>

Thanks for that. A few issues/questions.

Issue: The angle is 22° while I was looking for 45° so I don't know how
that will work for me. I'd hate to drop $130 for something that we don't
like. Obviously I will looking at the return policy from where ever I buy.

IMO, you have about a zero chance at finding what you want. The only
rail/stile bits I have ever seen are either "shaker" (lesser angle) or
"bevel" (greater angle). If you'll look at this link, it lists/shows the
normal profiles.
https://www.amazon.com/Yonico-12247q-Bevel-Router-4-Inch/dp/B075GXKKXL/ref=sr_1_3_sspa?s=power-hand-tools&ie=UTF8&qid=1516800597&sr=1-3-spons&keywords=router+bit&psc=1

It also hints at the fact that one need not spend $130 if one is willing to
modify one's desires. If not, one should plan on using a saw to achieve the
desired. :)


Question: When you look at that bit do you think that washers could be
placed between the angled cutter and the groove cutter? The goal is *not*
to have the chamfer go all the way down to the slot. See the bottom
profile here, which I sent to Infinity tools to see what they had:

Yes, they are adjustable.

.

On 2/1/18 9:57 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 7:37:13 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
>
> ...snip...
>
>>
>> You could use any number of those bits and then run the stiles through
>> the table saw at 45degress to get your chamfer.
>> You would end up with a tiny little hollow triangle at the joint, but
>> you may not notice it, or you could fill it with putty.
>>
>
> I ran a full length chamfer on the rails and a stopped chamfer on the
> stiles. After I assembled the doors, I filled the "over shoot" with
> Durham's RockHard, then chiseled the chamfer square. I still need to do
> a little cleanup, but they are coming out pretty good.
>
> They are going to be painted, so I'm going to lose some detail, but so
> be it.
>
> https://i.imgur.com/y9jFZCJ.jpg
>

Looks great.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On 2/2/18 6:17 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Thursday, February 1, 2018 at 10:57:06 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03
> wrote:
>> On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 7:37:13 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
>>
>> ...snip...
>>
>>>
>>> You could use any number of those bits and then run the stiles
>>> through the table saw at 45degress to get your chamfer. You
>>> would end up with a tiny little hollow triangle at the joint, but
>>> you may not notice it, or you could fill it with putty.
>>>
>>
>> I ran a full length chamfer on the rails and a stopped chamfer on
>> the stiles. After I assembled the doors, I filled the "over shoot"
>> with Durham's RockHard, then chiseled the chamfer square. I still
>> need to do a little cleanup, but they are coming out pretty good.
>>
>> They are going to be painted, so I'm going to lose some detail,
>> but so be it.
>>
>> https://i.imgur.com/y9jFZCJ.jpg
>
> Looks good...did you consider using a router after the glue up and
> using a sharp chisel to finish the inside corner? With a simple
> chamfer it seems do-able. A more complicated profile might not be as
> simple... In any case, as have said others, ya dunn gud!
>

His original post about this had a link pointing to how to do just that.
I think it would be faster.
Doing a perfect chisel cut on one is difficult.
Doing it on 25 will be easy because by the 3rd one he will have
developed a good technique and he'll fly through the rest with perfect
results.

Reminds me of the experiment a ceramics professor did at the school
where I used to work.
He split the class into two groups. He told each class they had the
entire quarter to finish the project.
Group A's assignment was to produce one perfect ceramic pot.
Group B's assignment was to produce 100 pots, irrespective of quality.

At the end of the quarter, Group A had produced a decent ceramic pot
with some minor flaws, struggling to meet the deadline.

About 2 months into the quarter, Group B had produced a few ceramic pots
of poor quality, a few more of decent quality, about a dozen of the
quality of Groups A's single ceramic pot, and about 80 absolutely
perfect ceramic pots.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On 2/2/18 8:40 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 2/2/2018 6:04 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>> On Thursday, February 1, 2018 at 11:56:58 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>>> DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 7:37:13 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>>
>>>> ...snip...
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You could use any number of those bits and then run the stiles through
>>>>> the table saw at 45degress to get your chamfer.
>>>>> You would end up with a tiny little hollow triangle at the joint, but
>>>>> you may not notice it, or you could fill it with putty.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I ran a full length chamfer on the rails and a stopped chamfer on the
>>>> stiles. After I assembled the doors, I filled the "over shoot" with
>>>> Durham's RockHard, then chiseled the chamfer square. I still need to do
>>>> a little cleanup, but they are coming out pretty good.
>>>>
>>>> They are going to be painted, so I'm going to lose some detail, but so
>>>> be it.
>>>>
>>>> https://i.imgur.com/y9jFZCJ.jpg
>>>>
>>>
>>> Hey!  You did good, Nice!
>>
>> Thanks. Now I have to go read that thread about sharpening chisels. ;-)
>>
>> Still, for 4 doors on the bookcase project, this was OK. The 25+
>> doors, drawers, panels, etc.
>> for the rest of the kitchen is going to be pretty time consuming. I
>> may rethink the chamfer/vertical
>> profile design and buy the bit set that produces the full chamfer and
>> the matching cope.
>>
>
> Well if you think doing 25 more doors might be tedious...Chisels are no
> better.  ;~)
>
> https://www.amazon.com/Work-Sharp-WS3000-Wood-Sharpener/dp/B000PVHIMW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1517582381&sr=8-1&keywords=worksharp+3000
>

I'm digging mine!!
You can get it for cheaper, here. jbtoolsales.com


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On 2/2/18 4:20 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Friday, February 2, 2018 at 11:02:43 AM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 2/2/18 6:17 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Thursday, February 1, 2018 at 10:57:06 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03
>>> wrote:
>>>> On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 7:37:13 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>>
>>>> ...snip...
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You could use any number of those bits and then run the stiles
>>>>> through the table saw at 45degress to get your chamfer. You
>>>>> would end up with a tiny little hollow triangle at the joint, but
>>>>> you may not notice it, or you could fill it with putty.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I ran a full length chamfer on the rails and a stopped chamfer on
>>>> the stiles. After I assembled the doors, I filled the "over shoot"
>>>> with Durham's RockHard, then chiseled the chamfer square. I still
>>>> need to do a little cleanup, but they are coming out pretty good.
>>>>
>>>> They are going to be painted, so I'm going to lose some detail,
>>>> but so be it.
>>>>
>>>> https://i.imgur.com/y9jFZCJ.jpg
>>>
>>> Looks good...did you consider using a router after the glue up and
>>> using a sharp chisel to finish the inside corner? With a simple
>>> chamfer it seems do-able. A more complicated profile might not be as
>>> simple... In any case, as have said others, ya dunn gud!
>>>
>>
>> His original post about this had a link pointing to how to do just that.
>> I think it would be faster.
>
> I'm the rookie here, so tell me what I am missing.
>
> The link in my OP shows a guy squaring up a chamfer on an open frame. I'm
> working on a door with a panel. I'm not seeing how the profile I want can
> be created after the door is assembled. Neither of chamfer bits I have
> would work.
>
> https://i.imgur.com/DYP09CE.jpg
>
> Perhaps building a pattern would work, but even with the four doors on
> this project, there are 2 different sizes. Once I start on the kitchen
> doors, there are at least 10 different sizes.
>
>> Doing a perfect chisel cut on one is difficult.
>> Doing it on 25 will be easy because by the 3rd one he will have
>> developed a good technique and he'll fly through the rest with perfect
>> results.
>
> The thing is that with real wood if you screw it up, you're screwed.
> With filler, you can keep filling it until you get it right. Now, I'm not
> saying that I had to refill any of the 16 corners that I just did, I'm just
> saying that there's a fix available should one need one. ;-)
>

There's a really cheap 45degree bearing bit out there that doesn't have
a bearing at all. It just had a round shaft that protrudes up. The
shaft acts as the bearing surface for the bit to ride on.
The shaft might be short enough for your application. If it wasn't, you
could probably grind it down so it would be.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

"DerbyDad03" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Friday, February 2, 2018 at 11:02:43 AM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 2/2/18 6:17 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>> > On Thursday, February 1, 2018 at 10:57:06 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03
>> > wrote:
>> >> On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 7:37:13 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
>> >>
>> >> ...snip...
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>> You could use any number of those bits and then run the stiles
>> >>> through the table saw at 45degress to get your chamfer. You
>> >>> would end up with a tiny little hollow triangle at the joint, but
>> >>> you may not notice it, or you could fill it with putty.
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> I ran a full length chamfer on the rails and a stopped chamfer on
>> >> the stiles. After I assembled the doors, I filled the "over shoot"
>> >> with Durham's RockHard, then chiseled the chamfer square. I still
>> >> need to do a little cleanup, but they are coming out pretty good.
>> >>
>> >> They are going to be painted, so I'm going to lose some detail,
>> >> but so be it.
>> >>
>> >> https://i.imgur.com/y9jFZCJ.jpg
>> >
>> > Looks good...did you consider using a router after the glue up and
>> > using a sharp chisel to finish the inside corner? With a simple
>> > chamfer it seems do-able. A more complicated profile might not be as
>> > simple... In any case, as have said others, ya dunn gud!
>> >
>>
>> His original post about this had a link pointing to how to do just that.
>> I think it would be faster.
>
> I'm the rookie here, so tell me what I am missing.
>
> The link in my OP shows a guy squaring up a chamfer on an open frame. I'm
> working on a door with a panel. I'm not seeing how the profile I want can
> be created after the door is assembled. Neither of chamfer bits I have
> would work.

Two ways that used to be accomplished:

1. Once upon a time, long, long ago there were very few carbide bits.
There were also very few bits with bearings; however, there were LOTS of
bits with pilots, the pilot being an extension at the bottom, maybe 1/8" in
diameter and 1/4" long. In cases like yours, the pilot was shortened to as
little as 1/16. In fact, I still have one.

2. People have been known to dry fit the rails and stiles - sans panel -
then rout.

On 2/2/18 6:17 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Friday, February 2, 2018 at 6:07:35 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 2/2/18 4:20 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>> On Friday, February 2, 2018 at 11:02:43 AM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>> On 2/2/18 6:17 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>> On Thursday, February 1, 2018 at 10:57:06 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 7:37:13 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ...snip...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You could use any number of those bits and then run the stiles
>>>>>>> through the table saw at 45degress to get your chamfer. You
>>>>>>> would end up with a tiny little hollow triangle at the joint, but
>>>>>>> you may not notice it, or you could fill it with putty.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I ran a full length chamfer on the rails and a stopped chamfer on
>>>>>> the stiles. After I assembled the doors, I filled the "over shoot"
>>>>>> with Durham's RockHard, then chiseled the chamfer square. I still
>>>>>> need to do a little cleanup, but they are coming out pretty good.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They are going to be painted, so I'm going to lose some detail,
>>>>>> but so be it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://i.imgur.com/y9jFZCJ.jpg
>>>>>
>>>>> Looks good...did you consider using a router after the glue up and
>>>>> using a sharp chisel to finish the inside corner? With a simple
>>>>> chamfer it seems do-able. A more complicated profile might not be as
>>>>> simple... In any case, as have said others, ya dunn gud!
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> His original post about this had a link pointing to how to do just that.
>>>> I think it would be faster.
>>>
>>> I'm the rookie here, so tell me what I am missing.
>>>
>>> The link in my OP shows a guy squaring up a chamfer on an open frame. I'm
>>> working on a door with a panel. I'm not seeing how the profile I want can
>>> be created after the door is assembled. Neither of chamfer bits I have
>>> would work.
>>>
>>> https://i.imgur.com/DYP09CE.jpg
>>>
>>> Perhaps building a pattern would work, but even with the four doors on
>>> this project, there are 2 different sizes. Once I start on the kitchen
>>> doors, there are at least 10 different sizes.
>>>
>>>> Doing a perfect chisel cut on one is difficult.
>>>> Doing it on 25 will be easy because by the 3rd one he will have
>>>> developed a good technique and he'll fly through the rest with perfect
>>>> results.
>>>
>>> The thing is that with real wood if you screw it up, you're screwed.
>>> With filler, you can keep filling it until you get it right. Now, I'm not
>>> saying that I had to refill any of the 16 corners that I just did, I'm just
>>> saying that there's a fix available should one need one. ;-)
>>>
>>
>> There's a really cheap 45degree bearing bit out there that doesn't have
>> a bearing at all. It just had a round shaft that protrudes up. The
>> shaft acts as the bearing surface for the bit to ride on.
>> The shaft might be short enough for your application. If it wasn't, you
>> could probably grind it down so it would be.
>
> I doubt these are cheap, but I get the idea. Thanks.
>
> https://www.infinitytools.com/blog/2017/07/11/why-you-need-brass-pilot-roundover-and-chamfer-woodworking-router-bits/
>

25 bucks for the chamfer version ain't bad, especially considering the
quality of that company.

--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On 2/2/18 7:25 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Friday, February 2, 2018 at 8:02:19 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 2/2/18 6:17 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>> On Friday, February 2, 2018 at 6:07:35 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>> On 2/2/18 4:20 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>>>> On Friday, February 2, 2018 at 11:02:43 AM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>>>> On 2/2/18 6:17 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>>> On Thursday, February 1, 2018 at 10:57:06 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 7:37:13 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ...snip...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You could use any number of those bits and then run the stiles
>>>>>>>>> through the table saw at 45degress to get your chamfer. You
>>>>>>>>> would end up with a tiny little hollow triangle at the joint, but
>>>>>>>>> you may not notice it, or you could fill it with putty.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I ran a full length chamfer on the rails and a stopped chamfer on
>>>>>>>> the stiles. After I assembled the doors, I filled the "over shoot"
>>>>>>>> with Durham's RockHard, then chiseled the chamfer square. I still
>>>>>>>> need to do a little cleanup, but they are coming out pretty good.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> They are going to be painted, so I'm going to lose some detail,
>>>>>>>> but so be it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://i.imgur.com/y9jFZCJ.jpg
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Looks good...did you consider using a router after the glue up and
>>>>>>> using a sharp chisel to finish the inside corner? With a simple
>>>>>>> chamfer it seems do-able. A more complicated profile might not be as
>>>>>>> simple... In any case, as have said others, ya dunn gud!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> His original post about this had a link pointing to how to do just that.
>>>>>> I think it would be faster.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm the rookie here, so tell me what I am missing.
>>>>>
>>>>> The link in my OP shows a guy squaring up a chamfer on an open frame. I'm
>>>>> working on a door with a panel. I'm not seeing how the profile I want can
>>>>> be created after the door is assembled. Neither of chamfer bits I have
>>>>> would work.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://i.imgur.com/DYP09CE.jpg
>>>>>
>>>>> Perhaps building a pattern would work, but even with the four doors on
>>>>> this project, there are 2 different sizes. Once I start on the kitchen
>>>>> doors, there are at least 10 different sizes.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Doing a perfect chisel cut on one is difficult.
>>>>>> Doing it on 25 will be easy because by the 3rd one he will have
>>>>>> developed a good technique and he'll fly through the rest with perfect
>>>>>> results.
>>>>>
>>>>> The thing is that with real wood if you screw it up, you're screwed.
>>>>> With filler, you can keep filling it until you get it right. Now, I'm not
>>>>> saying that I had to refill any of the 16 corners that I just did, I'm just
>>>>> saying that there's a fix available should one need one. ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> There's a really cheap 45degree bearing bit out there that doesn't have
>>>> a bearing at all. It just had a round shaft that protrudes up. The
>>>> shaft acts as the bearing surface for the bit to ride on.
>>>> The shaft might be short enough for your application. If it wasn't, you
>>>> could probably grind it down so it would be.
>>>
>>> I doubt these are cheap, but I get the idea. Thanks.
>>>
>>> https://www.infinitytools.com/blog/2017/07/11/why-you-need-brass-pilot-roundover-and-chamfer-woodworking-router-bits/
>>>
>>
>> 25 bucks for the chamfer version ain't bad, especially considering the
>> quality of that company.
>>
>
> $30 with 10 day shipping, but you are right. I hadn't looked up the price before I posted. I
> was surprised it was that cheap. It might be worth giving it a try when I'm ready to do the
> rest of the kitchen, but that's going to be a while.
>

Check your local big box stores. I've seen them for like 12 bucks.
Maybe less.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On 2/2/18 4:20 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> Perhaps building a pattern would work, but even with the four doors
> on this project, there are 2 different sizes. Once I start on the
> kitchen doors, there are at least 10 different sizes.
>

I was thinking about this and I don't think it would take very long to
set up a pattern for *all* doors.

The offset for each door would be the same, and the distance to
stop/turn the router at the corners is the same for each door. The only
thing that changes is the length and width of each door, but you don't
really need to worry about that if you set op a corner jig.

A corner jig could be attached to a work table.
The jig would have guide fences for the door that are attached to the
work table.
Straight router guide rails would attach on top of the door fences, and
be set at a distance equal to the offset of your router base, starting
from the inside edges of the rails/stiles.

Now just set a door corner in the guide jig, run the router through that
corner, stopping a little more than half way down/across the top and
side. Then rotate the door 90degrees in the jig and repeat 3x per door.
Quick release cam hold-downs screwed to the jig would facilitate
efficient clamping.

I drew up a quick illustration.
http://mikedrums.com/Chamfer_Router_Jig.PNG


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On 2/2/2018 6:04 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Thursday, February 1, 2018 at 11:56:58 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>> DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 7:37:13 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>
>>> ...snip...
>>>
>>>>
>>>> You could use any number of those bits and then run the stiles through
>>>> the table saw at 45degress to get your chamfer.
>>>> You would end up with a tiny little hollow triangle at the joint, but
>>>> you may not notice it, or you could fill it with putty.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I ran a full length chamfer on the rails and a stopped chamfer on the
>>> stiles. After I assembled the doors, I filled the "over shoot" with
>>> Durham's RockHard, then chiseled the chamfer square. I still need to do
>>> a little cleanup, but they are coming out pretty good.
>>>
>>> They are going to be painted, so I'm going to lose some detail, but so
>>> be it.
>>>
>>> https://i.imgur.com/y9jFZCJ.jpg
>>>
>>
>> Hey! You did good, Nice!
>
> Thanks. Now I have to go read that thread about sharpening chisels. ;-)
>
> Still, for 4 doors on the bookcase project, this was OK. The 25+ doors, drawers, panels, etc.
> for the rest of the kitchen is going to be pretty time consuming. I may rethink the chamfer/vertical
> profile design and buy the bit set that produces the full chamfer and the matching cope.
>

Well if you think doing 25 more doors might be tedious...Chisels are no
better. ;~)

https://www.amazon.com/Work-Sharp-WS3000-Wood-Sharpener/dp/B000PVHIMW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1517582381&sr=8-1&keywords=worksharp+3000

On 1/23/2018 9:47 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 10:16:28 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>> On 1/23/2018 5:59 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 12:46:35 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>>>> On 1/22/2018 10:36 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>>>> How do you build doors like this one? Frame and panel, M&T joinery, inside
>>>>> edge is chamfered.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://tinyurl.com/ChamferDoor
>>>>>
>>>>> Full link:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.homecrestcabinetry.com/-/media/homecrest/products/door_styles/dover/dover_maple_shaker_cabinet_door_natural.jpg
>>>>>
>>>>> Does the chamfer extend all the way to the ends of the stiles with a
>>>>> matching "inside chamfer" (?) on the ends of the rails to create the
>>>>> crisp corner?
>>>>
>>>> Yes.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> This guys cleans up the corners after routing the assembled frame, but I
>>>>> can't see (me) doing that for the 120+ corners I'd need to clean up for my
>>>>> kitchen doors and drawers.
>>>>>
>>>> Not > http://www.wooditis.com/attention-to-detail/
>>>>
>>>> A lot more work.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm sure hoping that there is some router table/table saw trick that
>>>>> I don't know about.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> See Mike's link. Rail and stile router bits come in all styles.
>>>
>>> Mike's link is a start, but I'll keep looking. I don't think that bit - unless it's adjustable with
>>> washers - is the same profile. That appears to be a full chamfer while the style I'm looking for
>>> is shallower.
>>>
>>
>> Look here
>>
>> https://www.infinitytools.com/routing/router-bits/carbide/door-making-router-bits/rail-stile-router-bits-for-cabinet-doors
>>
>>
>> Now look at the profile pictures below the big picture of the bit set.
>> Go to set 91-504. Scroll down to the pricing of that set. $89.00
>> including a set up block.
>
> Thanks, but 91-504 is not the profile I am trying to achieve. That profile appears to
> be flat-chamfer-flat. I'm looking for chamfer-flat.

Understood, adjust the cutter up about 1/16".

>
> If you look closely at this image, you will see that the chamfer starts on the outside face of
> frame and ends part way down the inside edge of the frame. Imagine that instead of just
> softening the inside edge of the frame with a quick sanding, I want to chamfer that edge
> about halfway down towards the panel.
>
> https://tinyurl.com/ChamferDoor

Understood, see above.



>
> I could probably set the height of that bit to eliminate the outer flat section, but that would
> move the groove up also and I'd lose the reveal that I am going for - unless the bit is
> adjustable via washers - which it does not appear to be.
>

Correct! But I think the groove would only be 1/16" closer to the face
of the frame if you raised the bit 1/16" to eliminate the top flat area
just before the chamfer begins. If you are using flat panels for the
door inserts it might be hard to tell the difference.
And maybe you want more flat below the chamfer, that would certainly
require a different bit.

BUT, basically I wanted to show you that this is the style bit you are
looking for.

Give Infinity a call, IIRC they are a small spin off company, son of the
owner of the original Jaseda bit company.