I know everyone here knows how important it is to use hydrolic hinges
on the lids of chests but....I just had to write this. This weekend my
neighbor's 2 year old granddaughter was knocked unconcious and
suffocated. I'm writing this to ask you to think about your families,
friends, neighbors, babysitters,,,that have chests in their homes and
remind them to have hydrolic hinges on them. I realized myself after
this accident that I have an antique steamer trunk in my basement. I
now have an excuse to get rid of the junk stored in it and the trunk
can go on the slabwood pile for all I care. Jana
As a father of 8 (one is 3, two are infants), this kind of stuff scares
the daylights out of me. In addition to the slow-close hinges, the
bottom of the trunk or chest needs to have holes or some other way for
air to circulate. Maybe it's a good idea for the lid to have
stand-offs or something to keep a 1/2" gap between the box and the lid
at all times.
brian
I realize having the lid unattached would keep a child from being
locked inside only if the child intentionally crawled in it but I
think you should put "fixing" it with the hinges on your list. I wasn't
completely clear in my discription. I believe Chelsey's head was caught
in the lid so she would have technically been strangled. I guess, as a
mother, the word suffocation is possibly less gut wrenching to write
rather than strangled....I just think having enough hinges on them so
you actually have to push the lid down to close it (and it should never
lock) would be the best solution. I also like Brian's ideas of the air
holes. I just mainly wrote this because if something like this has to
happen, a lesson should come from it.
J T wrote:
> Tue, Jan 31, 2006, 9:52am (EST-3) [email protected] doth advise us
> all:
> I know everyone here knows how important it is to use hydrolic hinges on
> the lids of chests <snip>
>
> I certainly don't know that. What I DO know is that it seems like
> there's quite a bit that's not been said.
>
> Why was a 2 yo unsupervised?
>
> Why was the top open? And, why did it fall? Why wasn't the chest
> locked in the first place? Why wasn't an adult around in the first
> place? I'd never have let my grandkid out of my sight at that age.
>
> I've long stated that I don't believe in tops for toy boxes/chests
> for little kids. Actually, untill they get to maybe 9 or 10 - old
> enough to not climb in one. I also believe they should NOT have a latch
> on them. In any event, with a top on any toy box, there should be an
> air gap, or holes. You got one kid, with a top, kid climbs in, shuts
> the lid, no prob - IF the lid dos not have a latch, and the box can
> allow air in. Kids do that, no biggie. However, there is always the
> chance the kid is gonna drop the top on their head, or hands - if it's a
> light top, no big deal, the kid probably will only do that once. You
> got two kids, one is gonna bang the other's head, and/or hands, with the
> top, and if one climbs in, the other is gonna sit on the lid. And, if
> it's got a latchl, the kid outside is as apt as not to walk away. Whan
> the kid gets old enough to get over all that, "then" you can put a lid
> on, so it can be used as a seat.
>
> I've got a military footlocker. The kind with the metal reinforced
> corners, and a heavy lid. I've had it since long before my sons were
> born. They were not allowed to play with it - not that it was kept
> around where they played. I sincerely doubt they would have been able
> to get it open anyway, but it they could have, it certainly had a lid
> heavy enough to seriously hurt them.
>
> I've found out that if you talk to a kid, and tell them they'll get
> hurt by playing with something, they'll usually listen; not just tell
> them "no".
>
> So, again, why was a kid so young unsupervised enough that
> something like that would happen?
>
>
> The child was supposedly taking a nap. It was not her own bedroom. She was being taken care of by an aunt. An accident like this would only take minutes. I understand what you are saying. I've lived on a lake and now have an indoor swimming pool. Needless to say, I'm a paranoid freak about watching kids but no one has eyes in the back of their head. Even tho I taught my kids to swim and explained what drowning is, I still had extra locks on the doors, fences, alarms, and padlocks for their life jackets. A two year old doesn't understand what death is so they can't understand the severity your warnings. As for you, I've seen your website. Are all of the locks out of the doors and trunks of the junkers in your back yard? >
> JOAT
> Shhh... that's the sound of nobody caring what you think.
Tue, Jan 31, 2006, 2:26pm (EST-3) [email protected] doth sayeth:
The child was supposedly taking a nap. It was not her own bedroom. She
was being taken care of by an aunt. An accident like this would only
take minutes. I understand what you are saying. <snippity of something
about a lake and a pool> As for you, I've seen your website. Are all of
the locks out of the doors and trunks of the junkers in your back yard?
When you don't hear a kid, that's when you get up and check on
them.
When my kids were 2 they were into about everything. I don't
recall what age they started opening cabinets, but eventually they did.
But, at age 2 I don't recall them "lifting", or even "trying" to lift
anything but their tooys, even the lid of the wicker chest we used for
their toys, and it was light. So, saying, or implying, a 2 yo got a
chest lid, that's apparently heavy enough to knock them out, and t then
sufficate, them, is not someting I can readily accept. To my mind, it
would be more llikely a hand(s) or finger(s) would be very much more
likely to get banged than a head. Unless the lid was already open, and
the kid cause it to close. But, if that's t he case, no reason it
should have been open.
When my kids were laid down for a nap, didn't matter if they were
home or not, we'd always check to be sure they were lying down, and not
getting into trouble, until they were asleep. And, when they woke up, I
don't recall that they didn't make some ssort of noise, alerting us to
them being awake, and to check on them.
How old was the babysitter?
As for my website, and junkers, that link has been changed a long
time ago, so your recall is inaccurate. Or, if you can still access it,
let me know, so I can change it. I don't have any junkers in my back
yard. My son does have a Datsun pickup, with a blown engine - which
will wind up back on the road, when he gets another engine in it; and, I
have my project Dub, with no engine, the plan is, that will also,
eventually, wind up on the road. So, neither is a "junker". All other
vehicles, including my son's 1952 Buick, run. And, no ,I do not have
the locks out of any of them, doors, or trunks. Why should I? They're
not junkers, after all. You think a kid is gonna crawl in a locked
trunk, and shut it?. Anyway, the only pictures are a couple of old ones
of my Dub project car, and one of my donor engine. Oops, almost forgot
- my son recently got a CJ-7, with no engine, that will be his off-road
toy. Still no junker, and it's not in the back yard either. Any
"junkers" around here get hauled off to, where else?, the junkyard.
JOAT
Shhh... that's the sound of nobody caring what you think.
Tue, Jan 31, 2006, 2:50pm (EST-3) [email protected] doth accuse:
Scott, there's something seriously wrong with you posting remarks like
this regarding a subject like this. grow up.
I take it he was a bit too blunt for you?
JOAT
Shhh... that's the sound of nobody caring what you think.
Tue, Jan 31, 2006, 2:50pm (EST-3) [email protected] doth burble:
Scott, there's something seriously wrong with you posting remarks like
this regarding a subject like this. grow up.
I disagree.
JOAT
Shhh... that's the sound of nobody caring what you think.
I apologize for not being more thorough. She was being watched by an
aunt and the little girl was taking a nap (or supposedly). Does there
really need to be more said? An accident like this only takes a few
minutes. I would concider myself a watchful parent but can anyone say
they havn't left their child alone in a room while they're taking a
nap? The papers are pretty slow around here since the local
newspapers only run once a week. It was on the Rochester, MN news
channel (KTTC.com). They usually have links to their stories.
Wed, Feb 1, 2006, 8:12am (EST-3) [email protected]
<snip> It was on the Rochester, MN news channel (KTTC.com). They usually
have links to their stories.
Well, I've not found anything on it. Anyone else have better luck?
JOAT
Shhh... that's the sound of nobody caring what you think.
Any links to recommended hinge types? Or are these door closers, and
not actually hinges?
Thanks!
[email protected] wrote:
> I know everyone here knows how important it is to use hydrolic hinges
> on the lids of chests but....I just had to write this. This weekend my
> neighbor's 2 year old granddaughter was knocked unconcious and
> suffocated. I'm writing this to ask you to think about your families,
> friends, neighbors, babysitters,,,that have chests in their homes and
> remind them to have hydrolic hinges on them. I realized myself after
> this accident that I have an antique steamer trunk in my basement. I
> now have an excuse to get rid of the junk stored in it and the trunk
> can go on the slabwood pile for all I care. Jana
Sorry MIke, I don't have any more information. Thank you for taking my
word. News around here travels more by word of mouth than the media.
The local paper comes out tomorrow. There may be something in there.
I'll post if something comes up. The news was fairly vague on the TV. I
have a friend who was on the first responder call but am not going to
call her. I'm sure there are privacy rules. I wasn't able to find the
story on KTTC. They don't have archives...or I can't find them. Maybe
someone else can. Anyway, I'm not in the mood to search anymore (&*(&*
dial up). The accident happened in rural Lime Springs, IA. Local paper
is the LIme Springs Herald and the next larger town has the Cresco
Times.
My objective in posting this was for some peace of mind. I'm sincerely
appreciate those of you who stopped and thought about it and took the
time to support my post. . I'm extremely disturbed by those of you who
made such rude remarks to the point of calling me a liar and a troll.
You also assumed no one was paying any attention to this child what so
ever. It makes me nautious to think of the guilt this aunt is going
through. Why on earth would somebody make up a story like this?!!! And
use their real name and email to boot? Jana
Wed, Feb 1, 2006, 10:39am (EST-3) [email protected] now sayeth:
Sorry MIke, I don't have any more information. <snip> The accident
happened in rural Lime Springs, IA. <snip> I'm extremely disturbed by
those of you who made such rude remarks to the point of calling me a
liar and a troll. You also assumed no one was paying any attention to
this child what so ever.<snip>
Well, now that I got told the corect state, I was able to track
this down.
http://www.desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060130/NEWS08/601300339/1010
I didn't see anything ther about getting knocked unconscious, etc.
But, it doesn't say how the lid got unlatched, then open, either -
especially with it automatically latching when the lid closed. Makes me
wonder if the lid was already open.
My memory must be failing me - because I don't recall any remarks
that "I" would have called particularly rude; and, I sure don't recall
reading where anyone called you a liar, or a troll. Or even implied
such. Maybe I just skipped over those parts tho. The article does say
the aunt was getting ready for work, and the mother was napping, which
to me, shows no one was really paying much attention. Sure makes me
wonder about that chest tho.
No way you're gonna keep a kid from getting hurt. And, no way you
can keep an eye on them 24/7. But, you can sure try to keep them safe
from the lethal stuff. You got a little kid visiting, it's pretty much a
given you go around, and put anything breakable, or dangerous to them,
up and, hopefully, out of their reach. The kid visits often, you put
kiddy latches on your cabinets. Shouldn't be too much of a stretch to
lock a chest, or shut the door to the room it's in - at least make some
sort of an effort.
JOAT
Shhh... that's the sound of nobody caring what you think.
"J T" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Wed, Feb 1, 2006, 10:39am (EST-3) [email protected] now sayeth:
> Sorry MIke, I don't have any more information. <snip> The accident
> happened in rural Lime Springs, IA. <snip> I'm extremely disturbed by
> those of you who made such rude remarks to the point of calling me a
> liar and a troll. You also assumed no one was paying any attention to
> this child what so ever.<snip>
>
> Well, now that I got told the corect state, I was able to track
> this down.
>
http://www.desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060130/NEWS08/601300339/1010
>
OK - well that at least explains how everything happened. Closers wouldn't
have helped this situation though. Looks like keeping the chest closed and
latched would have been the only thing that would have prevented this.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
George wrote:
> "brianlanning" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >I meant blanket chests and the like.
> >
>
> Locks. The kind you should have on that cabinet full of poisons under the
> sink.
Uh, that creates the possibility of a child being locked in the trunk.
Like when playing hide-and seek or being stuffed into the trunk
by playmates or siblings.
In that regard the worst kind of lock is the sort that automatically
locks when the lid closes.
--
FF
George wrote:
>
> ...
>
> The top is for adults. I wouldn't bother with one for the purpose of
> holding toys out of the middle of the floor. Pneumatics, hydraulics and
> springs fail as well. Is the sight of those toys so disturbing that you'd
> risk a kid? Not me. Add a lid after the kid's grown or use a temporary
> table top that stores behind if you need the thing as furniture.
No lid on a toy chest, or sliding doors are great ideas.
If you do really good work the chest will outlive you
and the people for whom it was built. So a solution
that eliminates the hazard for children and is acceptable
for adults is ideal. I like your the idea of simply setting
a top on the chest, no hinges, no latches.
Personally, remembering the episode of Dragnet where
Sgt Joe Friday read a junkyard owner the riot act (actually
he quoted the applicable California code and section
from memory) about the requirement to remove the latch
from an old refrigerator, except for shipping trunks, I would
not put a lock or latch on any chest or trunk big enough for
a child to hide in. Cabinets tend not to be airtight.
--
FF
I believe you brought it up. Incidently IA is Iowa, not Ohio, if that's
what you're getting at? Like I had mentioned, I heard the news through
word of mouth and didn't read anything until JOAT's link. My source was
pretty close to the situation so now I'm wondering if there was more to
the story than what was reported to the media or just another case of
things getting mixed up through the grapevine. In any case, it really
doesn't matter. That's why I didn't go into more detail in the first
place. I don't think it's my place to write the details I've heard.
Just respect that, please. A lot of good suggestions came out of this
post and I think all of the saftey measures are worth while thinking
about, right? As woodworkers, I think most people already think about
these things while designing projects. I was trying to say that
obviously not everyone does. FYI, I don't pout. I was merely offended
that you would write that. I'm over it. Jana
Thu, Feb 2, 2006, 8:21am (EST-3) [email protected] doth sayeth:
<snip> That's why I didn't go into more detail in the first place. I
don't think it's my place to write the details I've heard. <snip>
How many times have you ever asked someone, "Why didn't you say
that in the first place?". I know I have - lots.
JOAT
Shhh... that's the sound of nobody caring what you think.
George wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > George wrote:
> >> "brianlanning" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> news:[email protected]...
> >> >I meant blanket chests and the like.
> >> >
> >>
> >> Locks. The kind you should have on that cabinet full of poisons under
> >> the
> >> sink.
> >
> > Uh, that creates the possibility of a child being locked in the trunk.
> > Like when playing hide-and seek or being stuffed into the trunk
> > by playmates or siblings.
> >
> > In that regard the worst kind of lock is the sort that automatically
> > locks when the lid closes.
> >
>
> Oh, learn something once in a while Fred.
>
> http://www.dooyoo.co.uk/kids-equipment/clippasafe-cupboard-locks-pack-of-6/
I don't see how those could be used to keep a kid out
of a trunk or chest.
--
FF
J T wrote:
> Thu, Feb 2, 2006, 9:32am (EST-3) [email protected] obtusely
> states:
> <snip> I don't see how those could be used to keep a kid out of a trunk
> or chest.
>
> Because, as you know, it was posted in response to a comment about
> a kitchen cabinet, under the sink.
But as you inow, didn't comment on a kitchen cabinet
under a sink. I commented on locking a trunk or chest
the same way you would lock a cabinet under a kitchen
sink.
Those latches ( the SS ones you describe) sound good
for their intended purpose but do not seem to be adaptable
to a trunk or a chest so my comment still stands, that a
trunk or chest with a lid that automatically locks when
closed presents a suffocation risk for child who may
climb inside.
--
FF
George wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Those latches ( the SS ones you describe) sound good
> > for their intended purpose but do not seem to be adaptable
> > to a trunk or a chest so my comment still stands, that a
> > trunk or chest with a lid that automatically locks when
> > closed presents a suffocation risk for child who may
> > climb inside.
>
> Conceptually challenged, I think.
>
> The lid must be lifted and the locks disengaged (they make right angle or
> straight ahead) before it can be totally lifted. Put two on your chest lid,
> far enough apart, and the kid won't be able to manage the coordinated effort
> required.
OK, I was thinking that if the kid was tall enough to lift the lid he
would be able to reach and disengage the clip. To clips far enough
apart would present a tougher problem.
Actually, aren't most toddlers tall enough to reach the clip on the
door under a kitchen cabinet? Surely many or most will be smart
enough to figure it out. When my little brother was still crawling
he realized that if you put a key in a hole in the wall and turn it
the wall opens up. Then he found out that doesn't work on
electrical outlets and wasn't allowed to play with keys any more.
--
FF
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Those latches ( the SS ones you describe) sound good
> for their intended purpose but do not seem to be adaptable
> to a trunk or a chest so my comment still stands, that a
> trunk or chest with a lid that automatically locks when
> closed presents a suffocation risk for child who may
> climb inside.
Conceptually challenged, I think.
The lid must be lifted and the locks disengaged (they make right angle or
straight ahead) before it can be totally lifted. Put two on your chest lid,
far enough apart, and the kid won't be able to manage the coordinated effort
required.
Thu, Feb 2, 2006, 4:29pm George@least (George) doth mumble:
<snip> The lid must be lifted and the locks disengaged (they make right
angle or straight ahead) before it can be totally lifted. Put two on
your chest lid, far enough apart, and the kid won't be able to manage
the coordinated effort required.
Sounds reasonable. However. Two latches, two kids - chest open.
One, or both, climbe in, lid closes, bad news.
I don't believe in any ANY type of automatic lock or latch on
anything a kid is going to be around, and could be trapped in. At least
not a chest - things like cabinet doors, it could be appropriate to have
them; and, as long as there wasn't anthing in there that could hurt the
kid, might teach him/her a lesson. - as long as it wasnt airtight, that
is.
JOAT
Shhh... that's the sound of nobody caring what you think.
Thu, Feb 2, 2006, 9:32am (EST-3) [email protected] obtusely
states:
<snip> I don't see how those could be used to keep a kid out of a trunk
or chest.
Because, as you know, it was posted in response to a comment about
a kitchen cabinet, under the sink.
However, I've found the little plastic ones aren't good. They
work, but my kids were able to open the door anyway, after watching once
or twice, and trying on their own a very few times. I've found the
flat, stainless steel type, are very much better. In fact I don't recall
my kids getting past thosw ehen they were small at all.
I'm not about to look up a link, and this is as good a description
as you're gonna get. It's a flat piece of stainless steel, about 1 1/2"
wide and about 6' long. It's bent at one end, maybe 2', with a couple
of screw holes. The other end had one larger hold. This is what the
catch slips into. The catch is fastened on the bottom of the top (if
that makes sense), and it seems it was a large headed screw. When you
shut the cabinet, the catch (screw) slips into the hold. Then when the
door opens, it's held by the catch, to about 2" open. You've got to
push the door in just a bit, and push the latch down, clearing the catch
(scres), and then you can open the door. Too far, and the screw hangs
on the other edge of the hole. Not rocket science, but beyong a little
kid. The plastic ones, basically, all you have to do is pull down on
it, and viola, the door can open - not problem for a kid to do that.
That's as much as you're gonna get.
JOAT
Shhh... that's the sound of nobody caring what you think.
"Scott Lurndal" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "brianlanning" <[email protected]> writes:
>>As a father of 8 (one is 3, two are infants), this kind of stuff scares
>>the daylights out of me. In addition to the slow-close hinges, the
>>bottom of the trunk or chest needs to have holes or some other way for
>>air to circulate. Maybe it's a good idea for the lid to have
>>stand-offs or something to keep a 1/2" gap between the box and the lid
>>at all times.
>>
>>brian
>>
>
> Man, how did humanity ever survive 15 centuries of chests with locking
> lids?
>
> scott
The same way we survived without antibiotics and cars without seatbelts and
vaccinations and ... well you get the picture. We survived by people having
5 children because 2 of them were going to die from one thing or another
prior to childbearing age.
todd
I'm disappointed to say the least to see the comments by JT and others
on this. The story being true or not has no real bearing on the OP's
suggestion. The point is to attempt to provide a safe environment for
our children. A man of JT's age should know from experience children
do not always do as told, and they cannot be watched 24x7. In fact his
own statements support the fact he didn't watch them every moment
(looked in on them to make sure they were sleeping) and had to
discipline them because they didn't listen. Any one of those events
could have led to the result in the OP's story. It only takes 30
seconds of inattention for something tragic to happen. I almost lost a
son to drowning in that amount of time. I was fortunate, but it cured
me of the sin of saying things like "why weren't they watching them?".
You should know better.
-Jim
Wed, Feb 1, 2006, 10:01am (EST-3) [email protected] (jtpr) sayeth:
<snip>You should know better.
Who should? The point it probably best stated by Mike Marlow's
post.
JOAT
Shhh... that's the sound of nobody caring what you think.
Tue, Jan 31, 2006, 6:30pm (EST-1) [email protected] (todd) avers:
The same way we survived without antibiotics and cars without seatbelts
and vaccinations and ... well you get the picture. We survived by people
having 5 children because 2 of them were going to die from one thing or
another prior to childbearing age.
However, I believe there were more that died of disease and illness
than from accidents.
JOAT
Shhh... that's the sound of nobody caring what you think.
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>"brianlanning" <[email protected]> writes:
>>As a father of 8 (one is 3, two are infants), this kind of stuff scares
>>the daylights out of me. In addition to the slow-close hinges, the
>>bottom of the trunk or chest needs to have holes or some other way for
>>air to circulate. Maybe it's a good idea for the lid to have
>>stand-offs or something to keep a 1/2" gap between the box and the lid
>>at all times.
>
>Man, how did humanity ever survive 15 centuries of chests with locking lids?
Some didn't, which ist he point here.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
[email protected] writes:
>I realize having the lid unattached would keep a child from being
>locked inside only if the child intentionally crawled in it but I
>think you should put "fixing" it with the hinges on your list. I wasn't
>completely clear in my discription. I believe Chelsey's head was caught
>in the lid so she would have technically been strangled. I guess, as a
>mother, the word suffocation is possibly less gut wrenching to write
>rather than strangled....I just think having enough hinges on them so
>you actually have to push the lid down to close it (and it should never
>lock) would be the best solution. I also like Brian's ideas of the air
>holes. I just mainly wrote this because if something like this has to
>happen, a lesson should come from it.
>
You mean the lesson about leaving 2 year old children unattended?
scott
"brianlanning" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> As a father of 8 (one is 3, two are infants), this kind of stuff scares
> the daylights out of me. In addition to the slow-close hinges, the
> bottom of the trunk or chest needs to have holes or some other way for
> air to circulate. Maybe it's a good idea for the lid to have
> stand-offs or something to keep a 1/2" gap between the box and the lid
> at all times.
The top is for adults. I wouldn't bother with one for the purpose of
holding toys out of the middle of the floor. Pneumatics, hydraulics and
springs fail as well. Is the sight of those toys so disturbing that you'd
risk a kid? Not me. Add a lid after the kid's grown or use a temporary
table top that stores behind if you need the thing as furniture.
"brianlanning" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I meant blanket chests and the like.
>
Locks. The kind you should have on that cabinet full of poisons under the
sink.
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> George wrote:
>> "brianlanning" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> >I meant blanket chests and the like.
>> >
>>
>> Locks. The kind you should have on that cabinet full of poisons under
>> the
>> sink.
>
> Uh, that creates the possibility of a child being locked in the trunk.
> Like when playing hide-and seek or being stuffed into the trunk
> by playmates or siblings.
>
> In that regard the worst kind of lock is the sort that automatically
> locks when the lid closes.
>
Oh, learn something once in a while Fred.
http://www.dooyoo.co.uk/kids-equipment/clippasafe-cupboard-locks-pack-of-6/
Tue, Jan 31, 2006, 9:52am (EST-3) [email protected] doth advise us
all:
I know everyone here knows how important it is to use hydrolic hinges on
the lids of chests <snip>
I certainly don't know that. What I DO know is that it seems like
there's quite a bit that's not been said.
Why was a 2 yo unsupervised?
Why was the top open? And, why did it fall? Why wasn't the chest
locked in the first place? Why wasn't an adult around in the first
place? I'd never have let my grandkid out of my sight at that age.
I've long stated that I don't believe in tops for toy boxes/chests
for little kids. Actually, untill they get to maybe 9 or 10 - old
enough to not climb in one. I also believe they should NOT have a latch
on them. In any event, with a top on any toy box, there should be an
air gap, or holes. You got one kid, with a top, kid climbs in, shuts
the lid, no prob - IF the lid dos not have a latch, and the box can
allow air in. Kids do that, no biggie. However, there is always the
chance the kid is gonna drop the top on their head, or hands - if it's a
light top, no big deal, the kid probably will only do that once. You
got two kids, one is gonna bang the other's head, and/or hands, with the
top, and if one climbs in, the other is gonna sit on the lid. And, if
it's got a latchl, the kid outside is as apt as not to walk away. Whan
the kid gets old enough to get over all that, "then" you can put a lid
on, so it can be used as a seat.
I've got a military footlocker. The kind with the metal reinforced
corners, and a heavy lid. I've had it since long before my sons were
born. They were not allowed to play with it - not that it was kept
around where they played. I sincerely doubt they would have been able
to get it open anyway, but it they could have, it certainly had a lid
heavy enough to seriously hurt them.
I've found out that if you talk to a kid, and tell them they'll get
hurt by playing with something, they'll usually listen; not just tell
them "no".
So, again, why was a kid so young unsupervised enough that
something like that would happen?
JOAT
Shhh... that's the sound of nobody caring what you think.
On 1/31/2006 12:52 PM [email protected] mumbled something about the
following:
> I know everyone here knows how important it is to use hydrolic hinges
> on the lids of chests but....I just had to write this. This weekend my
> neighbor's 2 year old granddaughter was knocked unconcious and
> suffocated. I'm writing this to ask you to think about your families,
> friends, neighbors, babysitters,,,that have chests in their homes and
> remind them to have hydrolic hinges on them. I realized myself after
> this accident that I have an antique steamer trunk in my basement. I
> now have an excuse to get rid of the junk stored in it and the trunk
> can go on the slabwood pile for all I care. Jana
>
I guess I should take away all the toys and remove all the furniture
from my house before letting my grandkids in? Hell, they can get hurt
on almost anything, run into the coffee table, climb on it and fall off,
climb on the couch and fall onto the coffee table, fall off the bed, run
into a wall, close a door on their hand. Ah hell, might as well get rid
of the house so they can't get hurt by the house. Ooops, I better get
rid of the trees too so that a branch doesn't accidently fall on them.
You know, I think it would a LOT easier if I just watch them.
--
Odinn
RCOS #7 SENS BS ???
"The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never
worshiped anything but himself." -- Sir Richard Francis Burton
Reeky's unofficial homepage ... http://www.reeky.org
'03 FLHTI ........... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/ElectraGlide
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Atlanta Biker Net ... http://www.atlantabiker.net
Vulcan Riders Assoc . http://www.vulcanriders.org
rot13 [email protected] to reply
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I apologize for not being more thorough. She was being watched by an
> aunt and the little girl was taking a nap (or supposedly). Does there
> really need to be more said? An accident like this only takes a few
> minutes. I would concider myself a watchful parent but can anyone say
> they havn't left their child alone in a room while they're taking a
> nap? The papers are pretty slow around here since the local
> newspapers only run once a week. It was on the Rochester, MN news
> channel (KTTC.com). They usually have links to their stories.
>
I have no doubt the tragedy occurred Jan, but I do have to wonder about how
it happened. It strikes me that a lid heavy enough to cause suffocation
would be too heavy for a 2 year old to lift over their head. There must be
more to this story than the simple fact that a lid fell on a child's head.
Do you have any additional information about this?
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On 1 Feb 2006 10:39:47 -0800, [email protected] wrote:
> I'm extremely disturbed by those of you who
>made such rude remarks to the point of calling me a liar and a troll.
Stop pouting. Nobody called you anything. You were merely asked for
a pointer to an outside source. That is not out of line. Since it
was so recent and so close to home, where would be a better source to
ask than from you? Since you brought it up, it is incidental though
that there have been a lot of trolling from Ohio state in various
newsgroups.
WOW,
Reading this has made me think, I made a blanket chest for my wife a year
ago, the lid is recessed. So, if that lid were to drop on my son's hand it
surely would be able to break somethingif not worse. Which I dare not think!
I am on my way to the store for something that will protect him. He is 4 and
I seriously doubt that he could even lift the lid since it is recessed, but
nonetheless I am going to "fix" this possible situation. As well as check
the toy box in his room. Some things that seem so inocculous really do much
harm.
THanks for the warning
Searcher Jrs. DAD
Tue, Jan 31, 2006, 11:20pm (EST+5) [email protected] (Searcher)
amazedly shouts:
WOW,
=A0=A0Reading this has made me think, I made a blanket chest for my wife
a year ago, the lid is recessed. So, if that lid were to drop on my
son's hand it surely would be able to break somethingif not worse. Which
I dare not think! I am on my way to the store for something that will
protect him. He is 4 and I seriously doubt that he could even lift the
lid since it is recessed, but nonetheless I am going to "fix" this
possible situation. As well as check the toy box in his room. Some
things that seem so inocculous really do much harm.
THanks for the warning
The kid's 4, which means he's old enough to understand what "no"
means. Tell the kid to keep away from the chest, and spank him if he
doesn't. Which should be sufficient, but kids today don't react that
way. So, get a locking latch, install it, and keep it locked. Either
that or keep a check on the kid.
As far as the toy box, you've probably read my views on them. If
not, there's someone where in one of my posts in this thread.
JOAT
Shhh... that's the sound of nobody caring what you think.
[email protected] wrote:
> I know everyone here knows how important it is to use hydrolic hinges
> on the lids of chests but....I just had to write this. This weekend my
> neighbor's 2 year old granddaughter was knocked unconcious and
> suffocated. I'm writing this to ask you to think about your families,
> friends, neighbors, babysitters,,,that have chests in their homes and
> remind them to have hydrolic hinges on them. I realized myself after
> this accident that I have an antique steamer trunk in my basement. I
> now have an excuse to get rid of the junk stored in it and the trunk
> can go on the slabwood pile for all I care. Jana
>
Sorry to hear that. With this in mind Ill be sure to add one to the
cedar chest in our basement when I reattach the lid.
--
Thank you,
"Then said I, Wisdom [is] better than strength: nevertheless the poor
man's wisdom [is] despised, and his words are not heard." Ecclesiastes 9:16
"brianlanning" <[email protected]> writes:
>As a father of 8 (one is 3, two are infants), this kind of stuff scares
>the daylights out of me. In addition to the slow-close hinges, the
>bottom of the trunk or chest needs to have holes or some other way for
>air to circulate. Maybe it's a good idea for the lid to have
>stand-offs or something to keep a 1/2" gap between the box and the lid
>at all times.
>
>brian
>
Man, how did humanity ever survive 15 centuries of chests with locking lids?
scott
"Scott Lurndal" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
: [email protected] writes:
...
: >
:
: You mean the lesson about leaving 2 year old children
unattended?
:
: scott
Scott, you are the epitomy of rude, crude bad taste and may you
burn in hell for your intentional and purposeful ignorance. It
takes all kinds to make the world whirl 'round, but we could do
without your kind. You are supremely stupid and impotent.
Feb 1, 2006, 2:28am (EST+5) [email protected] (Pop) rudely
sayeth:
Scott, you are the epitomy of rude, crude bad taste and may you burn in
hell for your intentional and purposeful ignorance. It takes all kinds
to make the world whirl 'round, but we could do without your kind. You
are supremely stupid and impotent.
Impotent? And, epitomy?
The younger the kid, the more attendance they need. Some people
learn the hard way. Scott didn't say anything probably most of us
aren't thinking. I feel about the same, just sai it with more words
than him.
Scott, apparently you need to pretty it up for the more delicate
types in the group next time.
JOAT
Shhh... that's the sound of nobody caring what you think.
"Scott Lurndal" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>
> You mean the lesson about leaving 2 year old children unattended?
>
> scott
All mom had to do was go pee and the kid could get into trouble. Happens
under the best of circumstances. Thee are many other scenarios with a 2yo
for getting into a bad situation in seconds. I hope it never happens to your
kids.
"Scott Lurndal" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
: "brianlanning" <[email protected]> writes:
: >As a father of 8 (one is 3, two are infants), this kind of
stuff scares
: >the daylights out of me. In addition to the slow-close
hinges, the
: >bottom of the trunk or chest needs to have holes or some other
way for
: >air to circulate. Maybe it's a good idea for the lid to have
: >stand-offs or something to keep a 1/2" gap between the box and
the lid
: >at all times.
: >
: >brian
: >
:
: Man, how did humanity ever survive 15 centuries of chests with
locking lids?
:
: scott
Same way you did Scott: Pure, unadulterated dumb luck!
"AAvK" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:lhQDf.12281$eR.7124@fed1read03...
:
: > I know everyone here knows how important it is to use
hydrolic hinges
: > on the lids of chests but....I just had to write this. This
weekend my
: > neighbor's 2 year old granddaughter was knocked unconcious
and
: > suffocated. I'm writing this to ask you to think about your
families,
: > friends, neighbors, babysitters,,,that have chests in their
homes and
: > remind them to have hydrolic hinges on them. I realized
myself after
: > this accident that I have an antique steamer trunk in my
basement. I
: > now have an excuse to get rid of the junk stored in it and
the trunk
: > can go on the slabwood pile for all I care. Jana
: >
:
: Jana THANKS for sharing. Friend of mine just built a very
large Mahogany
: blanket chest for a friend family of his, intents to line it
with aromatic ceder.
: It's got this huge heavy lid on a free flowing piano hinge that
could no doubt
: kill a kid! ... or a little toddler.
:
: I will relay your message to him.
:
: --
: Alex - "newbie_neander" woodworker
: cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
: not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/
:
:
When I built chests (only two in my lifetime so far) I always
thought to use keep-opens and soft foams on the top/bottom of the
closing surfaces to protect little finners, but, you know, I
didn't go far enough. They're not airtight, but ... that wasn't
the point anyway. Fortunately both have lived thru kids growing
up around them. But both those kids now have kids; time for some
communictions, I think.
Thanks; good reminders, terrible way for them to come about.
Pop
Children suffocating in Lane hope chests was a common enough occurrence that
Lane has a standing offer of new latch mechanisms on their web page. The
chests have a seal ring around the top, and are made to be airtight.
The old latch was kind of like a refrigerator latch, in that it
automatically latches when you close it. The new latch requires that you
push the button in while closing it to lock it, and you can lock the push
button so it can't be pushed in to lock the case shut.
Anyone who owns a Lane Cedar chest should get the new latch mechanism and
install it. It takes a little inletting on chests manufactured before the
early seventies, but not too much. Half hour job, if the chest is full and
you have to pack and repack it.
Wed, Feb 1, 2006, 2:44pm (EST+5) [email protected] (Pop)
sayeth:
When I built chests (only two in my lifetime so far) I always thought to
use keep-opens and soft foams on the top/bottom of the closing surfaces
to protect little finners, but, you know, I didn't go far enough.
They're not airtight, but ... that wasn't the point anyway. Fortunately
both have lived thru kids growing up around them. But both those kids
now have kids; time for some communictions, I think.
Thanks; good reminders, terrible way for them to come about.
OK. For big people, chests with locks, and keep them locked around
little kids. For little kids, no tops. Among other reasons, a little
kid has problems enough just getting toys into a toy box. Or out. The
kid definitely does NOT need to try to screw around with a lid at t he
same time, definite recipe for frustration at the least and getting
hurt. Give the kid a beak, no lid.
For bigger kids, you can put a top on, so it can be used for a seat
too - no locking latch - plus air holes, or gap under the top edge. You
got a lid on a chest, biggest problem I see is a second kid slamming it
down on another kid's head or hands. Or, getting a kid in it, and then
sitting on the lid. Make the lid light enough so if a kid does drop it
on his/her own head or hands, it isn't gonna cause major damage - and
they shoiuld learn from that, and not do it again, no big deal. So, no
need for the fancy hinges, etc.
For older kids, that will NOT be climbing in it, you can put a lock
on it - again, if little kids around, keep it locked. Again, I don't
really see the need of fancy slow hinges, or whatever. By the time,
he/she should be coordinated enough to not drop the lid on their own
head/hands, and if they do, it isn't gonna do major damage. It'll teach
them to be more careful next time. However, if the lid doesn't go back
far enough to stand by itself, I will go along with something to hold
the lid up. And, supposedly, the kid will be old enough there will be
no desires to climb in the chest.
I don't believe that any locks/latches on any chest large enough to
get a kid in should automatically latch when closed. That would prevent
any kid from getting trapped accidently. Whcih would still not prevent
someone from fastening a lock, or putting weights on the lid.
JOAT
Shhh... that's the sound of nobody caring what you think.
On 1 Feb 2006 08:12:01 -0800, [email protected] wrote:
>The papers are pretty slow around here since the local
>newspapers only run once a week. It was on the Rochester, MN news
>channel (KTTC.com). They usually have links to their stories.
Thanks. I'll write to them for more detail, unless you can find the
direct link to the story to save some trouble. I need to know because
I'm wondering about the forces involved. The one I built has
slow-closers, and offset squares on the sides for ventilation. it is
solid! Beech 1.5" square for corners. Top and bottom 1x2 Beech trim
around 3/4" oak veneer particle board. Sides same oak filler.
Overall size about 28" cube. It was intended for parents to store
toys, not a 2 yr old. The offset squares for ventilation can be
removed, and the spacers discarded then applied flush for future use.
I originally thought of a hatchback closer from a wreckers [I got one
for a couple of dollars], but that was way overboard. Lee Valley to
the rescue.
On 1 Feb 2006 08:12:01 -0800, [email protected] wrote:
> It was on the Rochester, MN news
>channel (KTTC.com). They usually have links to their stories.
Never mind. I couldn't find the link, so I've written.
On 31 Jan 2006 09:52:10 -0800, [email protected] wrote:
>I know everyone here knows how important it is to use hydrolic hinges
>on the lids of chests but....I just had to write this. This weekend my
>neighbor's 2 year old granddaughter was knocked unconcious and
>suffocated. I'm writing this to ask you to think about your families,
>friends, neighbors, babysitters,,,that have chests in their homes and
>remind them to have hydrolic hinges on them. I realized myself after
>this accident that I have an antique steamer trunk in my basement. I
>now have an excuse to get rid of the junk stored in it and the trunk
>can go on the slabwood pile for all I care. Jana
A public apology: I received news from the TV station verifying that
this story was true, at least in part. The child was 'unconscious'
[deceased through suffocation], but not knocked unconscious, and it
was the mechanics of that which troubled me initially, trying to
figure out how the lid would fall etc.. What did happen is that she
was apparently trapped and suffocated. A sadness, to be sure, and why
I put large openings in the sides of my granddaughter's toy box, with
offset decorative squares of solid wood outside of them.
> I know everyone here knows how important it is to use hydrolic hinges
> on the lids of chests but....I just had to write this. This weekend my
> neighbor's 2 year old granddaughter was knocked unconcious and
> suffocated. I'm writing this to ask you to think about your families,
> friends, neighbors, babysitters,,,that have chests in their homes and
> remind them to have hydrolic hinges on them. I realized myself after
> this accident that I have an antique steamer trunk in my basement. I
> now have an excuse to get rid of the junk stored in it and the trunk
> can go on the slabwood pile for all I care. Jana
>
Jana THANKS for sharing. Friend of mine just built a very large Mahogany
blanket chest for a friend family of his, intents to line it with aromatic ceder.
It's got this huge heavy lid on a free flowing piano hinge that could no doubt
kill a kid! ... or a little toddler.
I will relay your message to him.
--
Alex - "newbie_neander" woodworker
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/
On Tue, 31 Jan 2006 16:55:44 -0500, [email protected] (J T)
wrote:
>Tue, Jan 31, 2006, 9:52am (EST-3) [email protected] doth advise us
>all:
>I know everyone here knows how important it is to use hydrolic hinges on
>the lids of chests <snip>
>
> I certainly don't know that. What I DO know is that it seems like
>there's quite a bit that's not been said.
>
> Why was a 2 yo unsupervised?
>
> Why was the top open? And, why did it fall? Why wasn't the chest
>locked in the first place? Why wasn't an adult around in the first
>place? I'd never have let my grandkid out of my sight at that age.
Agreed. And once more ...and I'm merely being curious, not
maliscious... does anyone have an actual media reference to this
story? He said it was recent, and I've heard not a thing. Frankly,
there's a lot of trolling coming out of Ohio just now in other
newsgroups. Is this [OP] substantiated fact, or another troll? It's
simple enough to verify by the OP sending a reference. You are in the
habit of browsing, JT. Perhaps you can find something in the news
media ...and this would have been bound to hit the media. I can't
find a darned thing.
Wed, Feb 1, 2006, 9:19am [email protected] (Guess=A0who) sayeth:
<snip> You are in the habit of browsing, JT. Perhaps you can find
something in the news media ...and this would have been bound to hit the
media. I can't find a darned thing.
Not exactly my usual type of browsing, but I'll give it a shot.
I'm quite curious too, something just doesn't seem right. Maybe comes
from watching too many of the real CSI shows, Dr G, North Mission Road,
and so on. LOL I don't watch the phoney CSI shows at all any more,
except for NCIS - hat's only for its entertainment value. I do love
Monk tho. If I come across anything, I'll post it.
JOAT
Shhh... that's the sound of nobody caring what you think.
On 31 Jan 2006 14:50:30 -0800, [email protected] wrote:
>Scott, there's something seriously wrong with you posting remarks like
>this regarding a subject like this. grow up.
There is something seriously wrong with you posting such news without
reference. This would definitely have hit the newspaper or the
radio/TV. Can you give a reference please; either newspaper, radio
station, or TV station that carried this story? I've looked around,
but could see nothing as yet.
I made a toy box for my granddaughter some time back, and it has
slow-closing hinges. So the message is a good one. I simply like to
see references when such tales are spread.
Tue, Jan 31, 2006, 7:12pm [email protected] (Guess=A0who) doth
sayeth:
There is something seriously wrong with you posting such news without
reference. This would definitely have hit the newspaper or the radio/TV.
<snip>
I'd also be very interesting in the results of the investigation
into this.
JOAT
Shhh... that's the sound of nobody caring what you think.
"Scott Lurndal" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> [email protected] writes:
>>I realize having the lid unattached would keep a child from being
>>locked inside only if the child intentionally crawled in it but I
>>think you should put "fixing" it with the hinges on your list. I wasn't
>>completely clear in my discription. I believe Chelsey's head was caught
>>in the lid so she would have technically been strangled. I guess, as a
>>mother, the word suffocation is possibly less gut wrenching to write
>>rather than strangled....I just think having enough hinges on them so
>>you actually have to push the lid down to close it (and it should never
>>lock) would be the best solution. I also like Brian's ideas of the air
>>holes. I just mainly wrote this because if something like this has to
>>happen, a lesson should come from it.
>>
>
> You mean the lesson about leaving 2 year old children unattended?
>
> scott
I'm guessing you have no children. Because if you do and you're telling me
prior to the age of 3 they have *never* been out of sight of an adult, I'm
telling you I don't buy it.
todd
Wed, Feb 1, 2006, 8:23am (EST-3) [email protected] burbles:
Actually JOAT, a child or person who is drowning or choking makes no
noise at all. Is that too blunt?
So? That just reinforces my point. If you can't hear the kid,
that's the time to check on them.
JOAT
Shhh... that's the sound of nobody caring what you think.
[email protected] wrote:
> Actually JOAT, a child or person who is drowning or choking makes no
> noise at all. Is that too blunt?
That's consistent with "If you can't hear them, they're getting into
trouble"
Tue, Jan 31, 2006, 6:25pm (EST-1) [email protected] (todd) doth sayeth:
I'm guessing you have no children. Because if you do and you're telling
me prior to the age of 3 they have *never* been out of sight of an
adult, I'm telling you I don't buy it.
I've got kids - grown now. We always kept an ey on them, when we
could. We also learned very early, to listen, when they weren't in
eyesight. If the kid is quiet, check, because more than likely, the kid
is getting into trouble. That was always called "keeping an eye on your
kids". Your dreaming if you expect to keep them from getting hurt; but,
hopefully, you can keep them from getting killed.
JOAT
Shhh... that's the sound of nobody caring what you think.
On 1 Feb 2006 08:23:01 -0800, [email protected] wrote:
>Actually JOAT, a child or person who is drowning or choking makes no
>noise at all. Is that too blunt?
might be why he said to check on them if they're too quiet...
Mac
https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/wood_stuff.htm
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> "Scott Lurndal" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
>>You mean the lesson about leaving 2 year old children unattended?
>>
>>scott
>
>
> All mom had to do was go pee and the kid could get into trouble. Happens
> under the best of circumstances. Thee are many other scenarios with a 2yo
> for getting into a bad situation in seconds. I hope it never happens to your
> kids.
>
>
Yep,
Little ones are like greased lightening. Blink and they're into no good
or somewhere they shouldn't.
Lot's of things in life shouldn't happen, but they do.
As my Dad says " Better to be wrong and alive than dead and right"
regards
John
J T wrote:
> Wed, Feb 1, 2006, 2:45am (EST+5) [email protected]
> (John B) sayeth:
> Yep,
> Little ones are like greased lightening. Blink and they're into no good
> or somewhere they shouldn't.
> Lot's of things in life shouldn't happen, but they do. As my Dad says "
> Better to be wrong and alive than dead and right" regards
>
> Never heard that one before
Probably because there are fewer examples of
people who died becasue they were right or lived
because they were wrong are a bit scarcer than
vice-versa, politics excluded.
--
FF
Wed, Feb 1, 2006, 2:45am (EST+5) [email protected]
(John=A0B) sayeth:
Yep,
Little ones are like greased lightening. Blink and they're into no good
or somewhere they shouldn't.
Lot's of things in life shouldn't happen, but they do. As my Dad says "
Better to be wrong and alive than dead and right" regards
Never heard that one before. Yep, you do the best you can, and
hope it's enough.
JOAT
Shhh... that's the sound of nobody caring what you think.