Air comp ? OT sort of

On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 23:09:01 GMT, "Searcher"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>I drain the tank several times a day. The main water/partical filter is at
>the tank and the hose is only 25 ft long. I guess then I would need an air
>dryer?
>rich


the water separator needs cool air to work. the air right out of the
compressor is hot enough to keep the moisture in it right through the
separator. try a length of hose between the compressor and the
separator.

Searcher wrote:

> I seem to be having a problem with my air compressor, it appears to be
> injecting water into my paint. I already have an air water filter but the
> water still is present. What else can I do to keep the water out. It is sure
> making a mess of my finishing.
>
> Rich

When's the last time you drained the tank?

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
(Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)

Mike.
What little orange bulbs? Thanks, JG

Mike Marlow wrote:

> "Searcher" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Great thought, I will change my set up around to give the air a chance to
> > cool down. I am not getting much water in the separator come to think of
> it.
> >
> > Thanks for the tip I'll let you know how it turns out.
> >
> > Rich
> >
>
> Also - get one of those orange bulbs that go on your gun. They are water
> traps and they screw into a standard 1/4"NPT fitting. One side is male and
> the other is female so you may need to buy an adapter as well, depending on
> what your gun needs. These things work very well. Very well. I use one on
> all of my spray guns and I've shot cars with a small compressor that thought
> part of it's purpose in life was to provide a refreshing mist as well as
> compressed air. I get absolutely no water through these things and have not
> experienced any finish problems since going to them years ago. And - as was
> said before, drain your tank - right before you are going to spray.
> --
>
> -Mike-
> [email protected]

"Searcher" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:NK%[email protected]...
> Orange bulb? Forgive me but I have no idea what an orange bulb is. That
> sounds like my answer! Where do I go to look for one?
>
> Rich
>

Try it - you'll love it. The url is http://www.motorguard.com/air_3.html.
Scroll down to where it says Painting: Spray Gun Filters. The product id is
D-12-1. You screw one on and forget all about it. They last for years with
occasional spraying. With the amount a wooddorker would do you'll only ever
need one.

They are available in most auto parts stores and in all automotive paint
supply houses. I think they're around $5.00 or so, but I'm not sure. When
I need to get one I don't really pay attention to the price - it's one of
those things that if you need one, you need one.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

"Searcher" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Today, I did move the water trap from the tank with about 6 ft of hose
> between the tank and the hose reel. I drained the tank and hopefully I
will
> see a difference when I go to use the sand blaster this weekend. I am also
> going to look in my area for the "orange bulbs"/
>
> Rich

How big is your compressor and tank Rich? Sand blasting takes it's toll on
a compressor, just like body tools do. It just demands a lot of air volume.
Smaller compressors end up cycling a lot, and they generate a lot of water
in the process. A lot of siphon blasters won't even pick up sand after a
while, simply because of this problem.
--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Today, I did move the water trap from the tank with about 6 ft of hose
between the tank and the hose reel. I drained the tank and hopefully I will
see a difference when I go to use the sand blaster this weekend. I am also
going to look in my area for the "orange bulbs"/

Rich
\
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> try moving your water filter away from the compressor. get a 10 or 25'
> legnth of hose to run from your compressor to the filter, then add another
> legnth to your paint gun. Make sure the tank is drained. I have painted
> several cars and this certainly helps!
>
> Dave
>
>
> "Searcher" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I seem to be having a problem with my air compressor, it appears to be
> > injecting water into my paint. I already have an air water filter but
the
> > water still is present. What else can I do to keep the water out. It is
> sure
> > making a mess of my finishing.
> >
> > Rich
> >
> >
>
>

"JGS" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Mike.
> What little orange bulbs? Thanks, JG

Here's the url...

http://www.motorguard.com/air_3.html

Scroll down to Spray Gun Filters, model D-12-1.

These things are available in most auto parts stores and from any automotive
paint supplier. Just screw it on your gun and forget about it. They last
forever with occasional spraying.


--

-Mike-
[email protected]

"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Searcher wrote:
>
> > I think that I am just going to break down and buy some steel pipe. I
will
> > run a line straight up to the ceiling then over to the middle of the
shop
> > drop it down to the hose reel. But I will attach the water trap to the
> > hose reel. I will also put in drain tubes at the up and down sections
with
> > a drain cock. I did find a place local to me to buy the orange bulbs, I
> > called to find out about them and the guy told me that the bulbs contain
> > activated charcoal. They only cost 7 bucks ea..Very small price to pay
for
> > no water.I think that after all this I should have a mist free finishing
> > booth.
> >
> > Thanks for all your suggestions, I am glad this group exists for without
> > it I would simply drive my wife crazy!
>
> FWIW, was at sears today and just for hohos looked to see if they have the
> orange balls--turns out they don't, but they have a black ball that looks
> like the same molding and is sold for the same purpose, for 7 bucks.
> Wouldn't guarantee that it's the same part but looks very likely.
>

Likely, it is the same thing - or at least functionally the same. I've used
red, blue and black in the past but over the past couple or few years it
seems the orange ones are the only ones I see, so that's what I use. Not
sure if the different colors are different manufacturers or what the deal
is.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Great thought, I will change my set up around to give the air a chance to
cool down. I am not getting much water in the separator come to think of it.

Thanks for the tip I'll let you know how it turns out.

Rich

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 23:09:01 GMT, "Searcher"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >I drain the tank several times a day. The main water/partical filter is
at
> >the tank and the hose is only 25 ft long. I guess then I would need an
air
> >dryer?
> >rich
>
>
> the water separator needs cool air to work. the air right out of the
> compressor is hot enough to keep the moisture in it right through the
> separator. try a length of hose between the compressor and the
> separator.

I have a 60 gal I/R comp
"Robert Galloway" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> One of the things I've found to contribute to moisture in the air stream
> is too small a tank. I used to use a gallon tank on a portable used
> with a pneumatic drill. Water out the drill's exhaust all the time.
> Needed to be portable, water didn't hurt the drill. Hooking the same
> drill to a compressor with a 20 gallon tank give no condensate out the
> exhaust. How big a tank are you dealing with?
>
> bob g.
>
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 23:09:01 GMT, "Searcher"
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>I drain the tank several times a day. The main water/partical filter is
at
> >>the tank and the hose is only 25 ft long. I guess then I would need an
air
> >>dryer?
> >>rich
> >
> >
> >
> > the water separator needs cool air to work. the air right out of the
> > compressor is hot enough to keep the moisture in it right through the
> > separator. try a length of hose between the compressor and the
> > separator.
>

Orange bulb? Forgive me but I have no idea what an orange bulb is. That
sounds like my answer! Where do I go to look for one?

Rich

"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Searcher" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Great thought, I will change my set up around to give the air a chance
to
> > cool down. I am not getting much water in the separator come to think of
> it.
> >
> > Thanks for the tip I'll let you know how it turns out.
> >
> > Rich
> >
>
> Also - get one of those orange bulbs that go on your gun. They are water
> traps and they screw into a standard 1/4"NPT fitting. One side is male
and
> the other is female so you may need to buy an adapter as well, depending
on
> what your gun needs. These things work very well. Very well. I use one
on
> all of my spray guns and I've shot cars with a small compressor that
thought
> part of it's purpose in life was to provide a refreshing mist as well as
> compressed air. I get absolutely no water through these things and have
not
> experienced any finish problems since going to them years ago. And - as
was
> said before, drain your tank - right before you are going to spray.
> --
>
> -Mike-
> [email protected]
>
>

One of the things I've found to contribute to moisture in the air stream
is too small a tank. I used to use a gallon tank on a portable used
with a pneumatic drill. Water out the drill's exhaust all the time.
Needed to be portable, water didn't hurt the drill. Hooking the same
drill to a compressor with a 20 gallon tank give no condensate out the
exhaust. How big a tank are you dealing with?

bob g.

[email protected] wrote:

> On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 23:09:01 GMT, "Searcher"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>I drain the tank several times a day. The main water/partical filter is at
>>the tank and the hose is only 25 ft long. I guess then I would need an air
>>dryer?
>>rich
>
>
>
> the water separator needs cool air to work. the air right out of the
> compressor is hot enough to keep the moisture in it right through the
> separator. try a length of hose between the compressor and the
> separator.

"Searcher" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I have a 60 gal Ingersol Rand
>
> Rich
>


You have enough compressor there Rich, so gaining a little span between the
comp and your discharge line (with proper trap/drain) and using the orange
filters, you should be all set. I'm in Central NY and we suffer with pretty
high humidity levels here and like I said, I don't have any water problems
anymore (besides what builds up in my tank).
--

-Mike-
[email protected]

I think that I am just going to break down and buy some steel pipe. I will
run a line straight up to the ceiling then over to the middle of the shop
drop it down to the hose reel. But I will attach the water trap to the hose
reel. I will also put in drain tubes at the up and down sections with a
drain cock. I did find a place local to me to buy the orange bulbs, I called
to find out about them and the guy told me that the bulbs contain activated
charcoal. They only cost 7 bucks ea..Very small price to pay for no water.I
think that after all this I should have a mist free finishing booth.

Thanks for all your suggestions, I am glad this group exists for without it
I would simply drive my wife crazy!

Rich
Remove the burr to email
"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Searcher" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I have a 60 gal Ingersol Rand
> >
> > Rich
> >
>
>
> You have enough compressor there Rich, so gaining a little span between
the
> comp and your discharge line (with proper trap/drain) and using the orange
> filters, you should be all set. I'm in Central NY and we suffer with
pretty
> high humidity levels here and like I said, I don't have any water problems
> anymore (besides what builds up in my tank).
> --
>
> -Mike-
> [email protected]
>
>

The big problem with the design of small air compressors systems is that
they don't have a way to properly cool the compressed air that is exhausting
from the compressor so that the moisture will condense out of it. If it was
allowed to cool before you tried to use it the moisture would condense out
and the air would be dry. The water could then be separated and you would
have the dry air that you want. Unfortunately the air compressor
manufacturers have never addressed this problem in their designs. They must
all live in Arizona or some other desert climate. This is a problem for the
rest of us who must live and spray paint in the more humid parts of the
world.

As a compressor runs and raises the pressure of the air, it also increases
the temperature of it. The moisture that is in this air will only remain a
vapor if the air remains at this high temperature. As it cools in the tank
and your air lines this moisture condenses out of it and becomes a problem.
Also, since warm air rises above cooler air, this warm humid air stratifies
and floats above the cooler air in the tank. In most cases the compressor
design puts the air outlet from the tank right next to the air inlet from
the compressor so any air that you draw out of the tank is still hot (and
full of moisture) when it leaves the tank, but cools as it flows through
your lines. As it cools the water condenses out of it causing the problem
that you are experiencing. It would be more desirable if the air outlet from
the tank could be located toward (but not at) the bottom of the tank. This
would give the hot air that is entering the tank time to give up it's heat
through the tank walls and the moisture time to condense out of it and fall
to the bottom of the tank before it reached the outlet point and your air
lines.

If the design of your air compressor had included a means of cooling the
compressed air before it reached the tank, then all of the moisture vapor
would be condensed out of it and would fall to the bottom of the tank where
it could accumulate to be drained at your convenience. Then all of the air
in the tank would be cool and would have given up it's moisture long before
it left the tank and entered your air lines no matter where the tank exit
was located.

I modified my air compressor several years ago to correct this and have had
no water problems since. I had to do this because I now live in North
Carolina where the humidity is frequently so high that we get thunder
showers almost every day in the summer months. I couldn't use my air
compressor to do much of anything but use it as a great water pistol. I can
now do sand blasting and painting and I never have any water problems any
more.

Here is the fix:

I connected an old air conditioning condenser coil that I got out of an old
import car (don't remember the make or model) in the hot air line that ran
between the compressor outlet and the tank. The trick is to find a coil that
is about the right size with flare fitting connections and an adequate
tubing size to handle the air flow out of your compressor (mine was 3/8).
Since the running pressure of this part of automotive air conditioners is
typically in the 3-400 pound range these coils are more than strong enough
to handle the working pressures of home air compressors, so safety shouldn't
be a concern. I mounted this coil so that the fan in the compressor pulley
pulls air through it, cooling down the hot air that is coming out of the
compressor before it reaches the tank. You should connect the compressor
outlet to the top connection of the coil and the tank inlet to the bottom
connection. Once the air has been cooled, the moisture condenses out of it
and it falls to the bottom of the air tank. The entire tank will now stay at
ambient temperature and it won't matter where the outlet connection is
located, so long as it is above where the condensate collects. You will
still need to drain the tank frequently, in fact, a little more frequently
than you used to. The dry air in the tank will never again have enough
moisture in it to condense in your air lines.

I still use one of those "orange ball" filters at my spray gun, but I do it
more as a safeguard for dirt and debris since it never sees water any more.


--
Charley

All outgoing e-mail is scanned for
viruses by Norton Anti Virus 2004

"> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >I seem to be having a problem with my air compressor, it appears to be
> >injecting water into my paint. I already have an air water filter but the
> >water still is present. What else can I do to keep the water out. It is
sure
> >making a mess of my finishing.
> >
> >Rich
> >
>

"Searcher" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I seem to be having a problem with my air compressor, it appears to be
> injecting water into my paint. I already have an air water filter but the
> water still is present. What else can I do to keep the water out. It is
sure
> making a mess of my finishing.
>
> Rich
>

it's condensing out in your hose or at the nozzle. you need to have 2 water
traps, one at the compressor, one near the end of the hose. if it's really
humid out, you might need an air dryer too.

well, maybe. if you use copper piping instead of a long rubber hose, have
the piping have a downward slope to the air tap, and a water trap at the
tap, you might be able to avoid having one.

hf has an air dryer that isn't an arm and a leg.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=40211

"Searcher" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I drain the tank several times a day. The main water/partical filter is at
> the tank and the hose is only 25 ft long. I guess then I would need an air
> dryer?
> rich
>
> "Charles Spitzer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "Searcher" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > I seem to be having a problem with my air compressor, it appears to be
> > > injecting water into my paint. I already have an air water filter but
> the
> > > water still is present. What else can I do to keep the water out. It
is
> > sure
> > > making a mess of my finishing.
> > >
> > > Rich
> > >
> >
> > it's condensing out in your hose or at the nozzle. you need to have 2
> water
> > traps, one at the compressor, one near the end of the hose. if it's
really
> > humid out, you might need an air dryer too.
> >
> >
>
>

Searcher wrote:

> I think that I am just going to break down and buy some steel pipe. I will
> run a line straight up to the ceiling then over to the middle of the shop
> drop it down to the hose reel. But I will attach the water trap to the
> hose reel. I will also put in drain tubes at the up and down sections with
> a drain cock. I did find a place local to me to buy the orange bulbs, I
> called to find out about them and the guy told me that the bulbs contain
> activated charcoal. They only cost 7 bucks ea..Very small price to pay for
> no water.I think that after all this I should have a mist free finishing
> booth.
>
> Thanks for all your suggestions, I am glad this group exists for without
> it I would simply drive my wife crazy!

FWIW, was at sears today and just for hohos looked to see if they have the
orange balls--turns out they don't, but they have a black ball that looks
like the same molding and is sold for the same purpose, for 7 bucks.
Wouldn't guarantee that it's the same part but looks very likely.

> Rich
> Remove the burr to email
> "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "Searcher" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> > I have a 60 gal Ingersol Rand
>> >
>> > Rich
>> >
>>
>>
>> You have enough compressor there Rich, so gaining a little span between
> the
>> comp and your discharge line (with proper trap/drain) and using the
>> orange
>> filters, you should be all set. I'm in Central NY and we suffer with
> pretty
>> high humidity levels here and like I said, I don't have any water
>> problems anymore (besides what builds up in my tank).
>> --
>>
>> -Mike-
>> [email protected]
>>
>>

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 01:34:56 GMT, "Mike Marlow"
<[email protected]> calmly ranted:

>
>"Searcher" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Today, I did move the water trap from the tank with about 6 ft of hose
>> between the tank and the hose reel. I drained the tank and hopefully I
>will
>> see a difference when I go to use the sand blaster this weekend. I am also
>> going to look in my area for the "orange bulbs"/
>>
>> Rich
>
>How big is your compressor and tank Rich? Sand blasting takes it's toll on
>a compressor, just like body tools do. It just demands a lot of air volume.
>Smaller compressors end up cycling a lot, and they generate a lot of water
>in the process. A lot of siphon blasters won't even pick up sand after a
>while, simply because of this problem.

You could always leave the water draincock a tee tiny bit
open so water self-drains as it builds up IF you don't
have an auto-draincock.


--------------------------------------------------------------------
Unfortunately, the term "Homo Sapiens" is a goal, not a description.
----
http://www.diversify.com Web Design for YOUR Business!
--------------------------------------------------------------------

I have a 60 gal Ingersol Rand

Rich

"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Searcher" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Today, I did move the water trap from the tank with about 6 ft of hose
> > between the tank and the hose reel. I drained the tank and hopefully I
> will
> > see a difference when I go to use the sand blaster this weekend. I am
also
> > going to look in my area for the "orange bulbs"/
> >
> > Rich
>
> How big is your compressor and tank Rich? Sand blasting takes it's toll
on
> a compressor, just like body tools do. It just demands a lot of air
volume.
> Smaller compressors end up cycling a lot, and they generate a lot of water
> in the process. A lot of siphon blasters won't even pick up sand after a
> while, simply because of this problem.
> --
>
> -Mike-
> [email protected]
>
>

I drain the tank several times a day. The main water/partical filter is at
the tank and the hose is only 25 ft long. I guess then I would need an air
dryer?
rich

"Charles Spitzer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Searcher" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I seem to be having a problem with my air compressor, it appears to be
> > injecting water into my paint. I already have an air water filter but
the
> > water still is present. What else can I do to keep the water out. It is
> sure
> > making a mess of my finishing.
> >
> > Rich
> >
>
> it's condensing out in your hose or at the nozzle. you need to have 2
water
> traps, one at the compressor, one near the end of the hose. if it's really
> humid out, you might need an air dryer too.
>
>

There should be a drain on the compressor. You need to open it
regularly, to drain water out of the compressor.
Dan
On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 22:15:35 GMT, "Searcher"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>I seem to be having a problem with my air compressor, it appears to be
>injecting water into my paint. I already have an air water filter but the
>water still is present. What else can I do to keep the water out. It is sure
>making a mess of my finishing.
>
>Rich
>

RE: Subject

Lots of storage capacity can solve a lot of problems, especially if you have
a small compressor.

A 60-80 gal ASME code vessel is a great friend of an air compressor.

Lew

try moving your water filter away from the compressor. get a 10 or 25'
legnth of hose to run from your compressor to the filter, then add another
legnth to your paint gun. Make sure the tank is drained. I have painted
several cars and this certainly helps!

Dave


"Searcher" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I seem to be having a problem with my air compressor, it appears to be
> injecting water into my paint. I already have an air water filter but the
> water still is present. What else can I do to keep the water out. It is
sure
> making a mess of my finishing.
>
> Rich
>
>

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> try moving your water filter away from the compressor. get a 10 or 25'
> legnth of hose to run from your compressor to the filter, then add another
> legnth to your paint gun. Make sure the tank is drained. I have painted
> several cars and this certainly helps!
>
> Dave

This is the best solution, especially if you plumb your lines so that you
have a trap (similar to the p-trap under your sink) with a drain valve and a
bit of a vertical run before you get to your water filter. For many, they
just don't go to the extent of plumbing a compressor properly - sometimes
because they just can't, so the alternatives like the gun mounted filters
make a good second best approach.
--

-Mike-
[email protected]

"Searcher" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Great thought, I will change my set up around to give the air a chance to
> cool down. I am not getting much water in the separator come to think of
it.
>
> Thanks for the tip I'll let you know how it turns out.
>
> Rich
>

Also - get one of those orange bulbs that go on your gun. They are water
traps and they screw into a standard 1/4"NPT fitting. One side is male and
the other is female so you may need to buy an adapter as well, depending on
what your gun needs. These things work very well. Very well. I use one on
all of my spray guns and I've shot cars with a small compressor that thought
part of it's purpose in life was to provide a refreshing mist as well as
compressed air. I get absolutely no water through these things and have not
experienced any finish problems since going to them years ago. And - as was
said before, drain your tank - right before you are going to spray.
--

-Mike-
[email protected]