I have been thinking about the usefulness of some "premium" tools, and thei=
r uses over the years. Most of them are quite affordable now due to the fa=
ct they have outlasted their patent protection, manufacturing techniques ha=
ve improved, and in some cases there is better technology available. But s=
ome stand out, even to this day.
I think there are a few tools that are in the "super premium" price range t=
hat have proven their worth over the years. First one I noticed was the Saw=
zall from Milwaukee. I remember back in the very early 70s when I used one=
to remove some framing (I was working as a laborer for a framing contracto=
r) that it like being a surgeon to cut out and replace a section of finishe=
d wall. They were so expensive though, that there weren't many out there. =
I still have my first Sawzall, bought second hand in '76 when I started my=
own framing outfit, and it still works! I don't use it as it is only a 3.5=
amp model (replaced by a 15 amp oscillating model) but it served well for =
years. At the time I bought it used, it was more than a genuine Rockwell 3=
15 circular saw!
Second would have to be a framing nail gun. At one time these were precisi=
on tools, and were priced the same way. I bought my first nail gun in '78 =
for $495. To put that in perspective, I bought my second used pickup 4 yea=
rs before that for $750! It was expensive since I had to buy hoses and a c=
ompressor to go with it for another $400, but worth it. This was a solutio=
n for me at a time when the young guys weren't able to drive nails all day,=
so it made a lousy hand pretty good. The young guys lined up to do buildu=
p all day as they loved shooting the nail guns. Since the job site idiot c=
ould now shoot a couple of thousand nails accurately to nailing specs very =
rapidly without tiring, the gun paid for itself in no time. This was a gam=
e changer in its day for the simple reason you had 100X the speed of drivin=
g framing nails over hand driven, and you could have someone just over the =
laborer status on the job master the gun.
Third, the biscuit joiner. Didn't buy the Lamello, although I knew I guy t=
hat had one with his own custom cabinet shop. He used that tool like Leon =
uses his Domino, for everything. And when they started making different si=
zes of cutters and biscuits, he was in heaven. I bought a PC model, and it=
paid for itself in short order. I was sorry I didn't buy one earlier as i=
t turned out to be a perfect solution for my style and requirements of buil=
ding.
Next, the oscillating tool. Robatoy needled me <<endlessly>> about buying =
the Fein model, years before their patents expired and the onslaught of kno=
ckoffs flooded the market. But I never got a chance to use one. I only sa=
w a couple on the job site and they were rarely used. The guys that bought=
them at Woodcraft paid several hundred dollars for them, and their blades =
cost more than a good circular saw blade. But after using my HF knockoff f=
or years now, I couldn't imagine going to a repair or install without it. =
It has a thousand uses and had I known just how handy this tool was I would=
have purchased it when Woodcraft started carrying it about 20 - 25 years a=
go, and would have gladly paid the $595 kit price for the multispeed, dust =
collecting, metal boxed kit that included the sanding attachments. There i=
s no doubt that some of my repairs and installations would have been a bett=
er end product and achieved more easily.
Add to the list the small, drill sized hammer drill. To recognize how impor=
tant that tool is, just try drilling a hole in decades old concrete with a =
standard drill and masonry drill bit.
Cordless drills? I bought my first one in the mid 80s, and used it to hang=
mini blinds in my condo rehabs I was doing. It was a 7.2V, took all night=
to charge, and had little torque. But it did its job, and even at $250 it=
was a great investment. The first time I used one to drive some small scr=
ews into a flashing on a roof and realized I didn't string out a cord, didn=
't have to find power, and the drill fit in my nail bags, even 30 years ago=
I knew that the battery powered drill/driver was a winner. For any repair=
guy, this is one of the most important tools in the box.
I think when the Domino or its subsequent offspring become more affordable,=
it will go into that arena of classic tools that were game changers for wo=
odworkers.
Seems like things have been slower than usual on the NG, so I thought I wou=
ld post some random thoughts.
Robert
On Tuesday, December 2, 2014 6:52:35 AM UTC-6, Swingman wrote:
> That's one of the things we, as builders, have to watch for by actually=
=20
> being on the job and _supervising_ .
>=20
> Not much actual supervising going on these days, but a lot of macho=20
> cowboy playing with nail guns. From years of observation it appears to=20
> be partly a youth thing, and partly cultural.=20
The last two generations of "carpenters" (boy... do I use that term loosely=
) have grown up with nail guns. They don't worry about accurate placement =
of a fastener, they just hit it and go. And if three nails is good, then f=
our nails is better, and five is superior.=20
> AAMOF, I've seen some=20
> structural beams that had to be replaced due to being turned into swiss=
=20
> cheese with a nail gun.
Tagging with my earlier comment about how many nails get used, the carpente=
rs have no understanding of nail as a structural component when fabricating=
beams. I know you know this Karl, but few builders see the nails in a bea=
m as anything more than a mechanical fastener. When I started framing with=
my own company in the late 70s, I had to figure out for myself what size t=
o make a beam over an opening, and what materials to use. When I went to t=
he library to find a book on framing that was suggested to me by a structur=
al engineer, they had a brief but enlightening discussion on the structural=
value of the nail and the importance of laying out the nail pattern.
> Many of the "builders" in these parts, who wear khakis and a blazer=20
> while driving around in a Lexus talking on a cell phone, rarely notice=20
> these things.
It's the same way here. At least they quite wearing those ugly ass corduro=
y jackets with the large suede patches on the elbows. And with their cell =
phones attached to their ears, they miss the "rhythm" of a job. To me, a jo=
b site has a certain sound, a cadence to it when certain trades are on it. =
I expect to hear a certain amount of sawing, compressors running, nail guns=
, and I expect those sounds in a certain way depending on the trades on the=
job.
Most builders today have never used a tool for more than a few minutes, so =
when I bring that up, they have no idea what I am talking about.
Robert
"[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Sunday, November 30, 2014 6:56:51 PM UTC-6, Peter Bennett wrote:
>
>> Having a couple of houses under construction within earshot has made
>> me wonder how many more nails are used in house construction now that
>> we have nail guns. It seems like they drive half a dozen nails in
>> each joint.
>
> Nailing patterns and framing methods have not changed in (guessing) about
> 50 years, and in most processes probably about since standards and
> protocols were set just after WWII.
>
> Plywood deck is still the same nailing patterns, shingles the same,
> insulation the same, etc. Roof decking on an average house uses about
> 3500 nails, back in the bad old days, driven by hand. Covering that same
> roof with shingles will use more than 11,000 nails (25 squares, 3 bundles
> each, 5 nails per with extra for ridge, valleys, etc.) and on an on.
> Still the same patterns in your buildup... the nail patterns on the
> insulation was printed on it back in the mid 70s by manufacturers... so
> no, not much has changed. I am sure if you aren't used to the constant
> banging, it sounds like they are using them for everything possible.
> Knowing that most guys simply can't drive nails these days, they probably are.
>
> Ironically, the nail gun did us small framing contractors no favor.
> Since the big boys had money for as much as TWO nail guns, they could
> really move as they used them to build walls as well. So what that did
> was mean the tract home builders we worked for shortened the amount of
> time we had to get a house finished. If we couldn't meet the new,
> shorter deadlines then we couldn't get a house to frame. So we had to
> buy more guns. Then the builders reasoned that since it took us less
> time to get the houses framed, then they didn't give us any more money,
> even though we had to buy larger compressors, more hoses, and those nasty
> expensive gun nails.
>
> The same thing happened when we started trimming out houses inside. Now
> we had to buy DuoFast guns since they were the only ones that made trim
> guns. They guns were so expensive we rented them from a friend of ours
> when he wasn't using them until we could buy ONE. Of course now, they
> are poorly made and cost almost nothing. That's a good thing, too.
> There was a perfect collision of materials and lack of skill a many years
> ago. Most of the "clear" trim was no longer an undefined semi hardwood,
> but yellow pine! Nasty stuff to work with,it chips, breaks, cracks and
> generally resists all manner of mechanical attachment. Later, all the
> South American made trims made their way here and they weren't (and still
> aren't) any better. Then along came MDF trims.
>
> At that point, trim nailers became self defense. I am not replacing them
> except as needed, but at one time I had something like 12 trim guns that
> shot brads, angled trim nails, straight nails, T nails, pins, and even 1/4" crown staples.
>
> Now I think nail guns of all types are a must. The speed required to
> satisfy the consumers, the poor quality of materials we use and the lack
> of an old skill (the ability to drive all sizes of nails with ease) are
> all factors where nail guns have filled the gap.
>
> As a sidebar, I must say that I truly enjoy taunting the "long time
> professionals" that come to work on my jobs that can't drive a nail. I
> have embarrassed more of them than I can count.
>
> Robert
Remember, becoming a professional does not mean an expert.
Hearing that something is is professionally installed, repaired, or built
ALWAYS makes me think of the the kid flipping burgers. He is being paid so
he is a professional and may have been a burger flipper before coming to do
work for you
I want an expert like YOU.
On Sunday, November 30, 2014 6:56:51 PM UTC-6, Peter Bennett wrote:
> Having a couple of houses under construction within earshot has made
> me wonder how many more nails are used in house construction now that
> we have nail guns. It seems like they drive half a dozen nails in
> each joint.
Nailing patterns and framing methods have not changed in (guessing) about 5=
0 years, and in most processes probably about since standards and protocols=
were set just after WWII.
Plywood deck is still the same nailing patterns, shingles the same, insulat=
ion the same, etc. Roof decking on an average house uses about 3500 nails, =
back in the bad old days, driven by hand. Covering that same roof with shi=
ngles will use more than 11,000 nails (25 squares, 3 bundles each, 5 nails =
per with extra for ridge, valleys, etc.) and on an on. Still the same patt=
erns in your buildup... the nail patterns on the insulation was printed on =
it back in the mid 70s by manufacturers... so no, not much has changed. I =
am sure if you aren't used to the constant banging, it sounds like they are=
using them for everything possible. Knowing that most guys simply can't d=
rive nails these days, they probably are.
Ironically, the nail gun did us small framing contractors no favor. Since =
the big boys had money for as much as TWO nail guns, they could really move=
as they used them to build walls as well. So what that did was mean the t=
ract home builders we worked for shortened the amount of time we had to get=
a house finished. If we couldn't meet the new, shorter deadlines then we =
couldn't get a house to frame. So we had to buy more guns. Then the build=
ers reasoned that since it took us less time to get the houses framed, then=
they didn't give us any more money, even though we had to buy larger compr=
essors, more hoses, and those nasty expensive gun nails.
The same thing happened when we started trimming out houses inside. Now we=
had to buy DuoFast guns since they were the only ones that made trim guns.=
They guns were so expensive we rented them from a friend of ours when he =
wasn't using them until we could buy ONE. Of course now, they are poorly m=
ade and cost almost nothing. That's a good thing, too. There was a perfec=
t collision of materials and lack of skill a many years ago. Most of the "=
clear" trim was no longer an undefined semi hardwood, but yellow pine! Nas=
ty stuff to work with,it chips, breaks, cracks and generally resists all ma=
nner of mechanical attachment. Later, all the South American made trims ma=
de their way here and they weren't (and still aren't) any better. Then alo=
ng came MDF trims. =20
At that point, trim nailers became self defense. I am not replacing them e=
xcept as needed, but at one time I had something like 12 trim guns that sho=
t brads, angled trim nails, straight nails, T nails, pins, and even 1/4" cr=
own staples.=20
Now I think nail guns of all types are a must. The speed required to satis=
fy the consumers, the poor quality of materials we use and the lack of an o=
ld skill (the ability to drive all sizes of nails with ease) are all factor=
s where nail guns have filled the gap. =20
As a sidebar, I must say that I truly enjoy taunting the "long time profess=
ionals" that come to work on my jobs that can't drive a nail. I have embar=
rassed more of them than I can count.
Robert
On Monday, December 1, 2014 5:31:18 AM UTC-6, dadiOH wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]=20
> > On Sunday, November 30, 2014 6:56:51 PM UTC-6, Peter Bennett wrote:
>=20
> > As a sidebar, I must say that I truly enjoy taunting the "long time
> > professionals" that come to work on my jobs that can't drive a nail. I
> > have embarrassed more of them than I can count. =20
>=20
>=20
> How many whacks for a 16d into yellow pine 2x4s?
When I was framing all day, one to set the nail, two to drive it and sink i=
t 1/8" to 1/4". I had lots of practice, so at one time I rarely missed.
Once you get promoted from material mule and job site cleanup, you usually =
go to build up. So you stand and drive nails all day making corners, "T"s,=
bucks, headers, etc. Later, released into the general population after le=
arning to drive a couple of thousand nails (literally) a day, then you get =
to nail off decking as well.
As an teenager learning to drive them, my arms grew so weak during the day =
I couldn't grip a hammer. (Back on the broom I went...) My right arm and s=
ide hurt for months, then finally I got to where I could a drive a 50# box =
of 16d commons like the big boys.
Couldn't do that now if my life depended on it.
But I can drive nails "up" into wood, so upside down. I can and do drive a=
ll sizes of nails in tight spaces like this: lay the hammer on its side pa=
rallel with the floor with the head on your body side, handle facing away. =
Driving a nail in this position takes a lot of practice and skill as it is=
all wrist motion. Start the nail, and standing in front of the nail, driv=
e it in by flipping the hammer with your wrist, keeping the hammer parallel=
with the floor.
This is a really handy skill in tight places, or in special conditions. Al=
though I can drive large nails doing this, I learned to do it when installi=
ng paneling and trims, so no misses! You get to an inside corner when inst=
alling paneling, sheetrock, or any other sheet goods and you face this prob=
lem, so it was a skill I had to learn. Now I see guys with their faces mas=
hed onto an adjacent wall trying to carefully tap nails in holding the hamm=
er in straight up and down, the only way they know to do it.
Robert
On 12/01/2014 04:31 AM, dadiOH wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>> On Sunday, November 30, 2014 6:56:51 PM UTC-6, Peter Bennett wrote:
>
>> As a sidebar, I must say that I truly enjoy taunting the "long time
>> professionals" that come to work on my jobs that can't drive a nail. I
>> have embarrassed more of them than I can count.
>
>
> How many whacks for a 16d into yellow pine 2x4s?
>
>
Don't know about yellow pine, but my brother (rest his soul) did a tap
and whack to set 16ds in doug fir with a 24 ounce framing hammer.
--
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure,the creed of ignorance, and the
gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"
-Winston Churchill
woodchucker <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> I'm still looking for mine, some how it disappeared. I have the rubber
> one too, but I really liked the leather one. it was a lighter hammer
> than my rubber handled one I think it was about 16oz.. I think
> everyone makes an Estwing clone now. so it's not a big deal, but they
> are very good hammers.
>
Time to buy another one so you can find the first. :-)
Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.
On Thursday, December 4, 2014 4:03:48 AM UTC-6, Morgans wrote:
> Was that the steel shank? If it was, I loved it and it is discontinued. =
I=20
> wore out two of them. I wish I could get another one.
>=20
> -- Jim in NC=20
Nope, it was this one.
http://www.amazon.com/Vaughan-999L-20-Ounce-Professional-Framing/dp/B00004Z=
2WZ
Note the 16" handle! =20
We never used the steel handled hammers as too many of us that hammered nai=
ls all day long started coming up with bad elbow pain. It was finally isol=
ated to the steel handles which a lot of us liked since the handles didn' b=
reak. Bend, yes. Break, no. But there were industry reports, etc., that =
came out at the time that were from industrial occupational doctors that st=
udied it.
As a sidebar, there are several hammers now that LOOK the same, but aren't.=
They have tuning forks, plugs, and all kinds of things in them to resolve=
that issue. Not sure it was a needed fix as you had to drive a few hundre=
d nails a day to have that problem show up. NO ONE I know now drives more =
than a couple of hundred nails by hand a day anymore.
I had the same problem that Morgans did, and that was the fact the handles =
were too skinny for my meaty palms on those Estwings. I used those Vaughan=
s until they finally got the fiberglass Plumbs right, then went to a 22oz v=
ersion of their framing hammer. No more broken handles.
Robert
On 11/30/2014 7:34 PM, John McCoy wrote:
> "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> I have been thinking about the usefulness of some "premium" tools, and
>> their uses over the years.
>
> Going off on a bit of a tangent from your theme, but I can't
> think of a case where I regretted paying for a "premium"
> brand tool, even the ones I only use once in a blue moon.
> There are, unfortunately, quite a few cases where I regretted
> buying the economy brand, most of which have had to be
> replaced...
>
> John
>
You might regret buying the premium tool when you have a team of
"professionals" not experts learning the trade, that use those tools.
I am pretty sure nailshooter would have mo'betta tools if he were the
only one using them in his own shop. It is much easier to replace a
less expensive tool that works, should it disappear or get damaged, than
a premium tool that comes at a premium price.
On 11/30/2014 6:56 PM, Peter Bennett wrote:
> Having a couple of houses under construction within earshot has made
> me wonder how many more nails are used in house construction now that
> we have nail guns. It seems like they drive half a dozen nails in
> each joint.
That's one of the things we, as builders, have to watch for by actually
being on the job and _supervising_ .
Not much actual supervising going on these days, but a lot of macho
cowboy playing with nail guns. From years of observation it appears to
be partly a youth thing, and partly cultural. AAMOF, I've seen some
structural beams that had to be replaced due to being turned into swiss
cheese with a nail gun.
Many of the "builders" in these parts, who wear khakis and a blazer
while driving around in a Lexus talking on a cell phone, rarely notice
these things.
--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
On 11/30/2014 3:19 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> I have been thinking about the usefulness of some "premium" tools, and their uses over the years. Most of them are quite affordable now due to the fact they have outlasted their patent protection, manufacturing techniques have improved, and in some cases there is better technology available. But some stand out, even to this day.
>
> I think there are a few tools that are in the "super premium" price range that have proven their worth over the years. First one I noticed was the Sawzall from Milwaukee. I remember back in the very early 70s when I used one to remove some framing (I was working as a laborer for a framing contractor) that it like being a surgeon to cut out and replace a section of finished wall. They were so expensive though, that there weren't many out there. I still have my first Sawzall, bought second hand in '76 when I started my own framing outfit, and it still works! I don't use it as it is only a 3.5 amp model (replaced by a 15 amp oscillating model) but it served well for years. At the time I bought it used, it was more than a genuine Rockwell 315 circular saw!
>
> Second would have to be a framing nail gun. At one time these were precision tools, and were priced the same way. I bought my first nail gun in '78 for $495. To put that in perspective, I bought my second used pickup 4 years before that for $750! It was expensive since I had to buy hoses and a compressor to go with it for another $400, but worth it. This was a solution for me at a time when the young guys weren't able to drive nails all day, so it made a lousy hand pretty good. The young guys lined up to do buildup all day as they loved shooting the nail guns. Since the job site idiot could now shoot a couple of thousand nails accurately to nailing specs very rapidly without tiring, the gun paid for itself in no time. This was a game changer in its day for the simple reason you had 100X the speed of driving framing nails over hand driven, and you could have someone just over the laborer status on the job master the gun.
>
> Third, the biscuit joiner. Didn't buy the Lamello, although I knew I guy that had one with his own custom cabinet shop. He used that tool like Leon uses his Domino, for everything. And when they started making different sizes of cutters and biscuits, he was in heaven. I bought a PC model, and it paid for itself in short order. I was sorry I didn't buy one earlier as it turned out to be a perfect solution for my style and requirements of building.
>
> Next, the oscillating tool. Robatoy needled me <<endlessly>> about buying the Fein model, years before their patents expired and the onslaught of knockoffs flooded the market. But I never got a chance to use one. I only saw a couple on the job site and they were rarely used. The guys that bought them at Woodcraft paid several hundred dollars for them, and their blades cost more than a good circular saw blade. But after using my HF knockoff for years now, I couldn't imagine going to a repair or install without it. It has a thousand uses and had I known just how handy this tool was I would have purchased it when Woodcraft started carrying it about 20 - 25 years ago, and would have gladly paid the $595 kit price for the multispeed, dust collecting, metal boxed kit that included the sanding attachments. There is no doubt that some of my repairs and installations would have been a better end product and achieved more easily.
>
> Add to the list the small, drill sized hammer drill. To recognize how important that tool is, just try drilling a hole in decades old concrete with a standard drill and masonry drill bit.
>
> Cordless drills? I bought my first one in the mid 80s, and used it to hang mini blinds in my condo rehabs I was doing. It was a 7.2V, took all night to charge, and had little torque. But it did its job, and even at $250 it was a great investment. The first time I used one to drive some small screws into a flashing on a roof and realized I didn't string out a cord, didn't have to find power, and the drill fit in my nail bags, even 30 years ago I knew that the battery powered drill/driver was a winner. For any repair guy, this is one of the most important tools in the box.
>
> I think when the Domino or its subsequent offspring become more affordable, it will go into that arena of classic tools that were game changers for woodworkers.
>
> Seems like things have been slower than usual on the NG, so I thought I would post some random thoughts.
>
> Robert
>
Thank you Robert.... My first rechargeable screw driver, 1981. Disston
brand. Battery popped out and plugged directly into the wall outlet. I
knew this was the way screws would be driven from here out.
A bit OT, in the late 80's I saw lap top LCD screens and knew one day
they would dominate video of all types. In 2001 I bought my first 18"
LCD monitor for about $1000.00 12 years later I bought my first 70" LCD
TV about double the price of that 18" LCD monitor.
Robatoy was bad like that huh? Probably responsible for me buying
Festool and replacing many tools that I thought were top of the line.
"[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> I have been thinking about the usefulness of some "premium" tools, and
> their uses over the years.
Going off on a bit of a tangent from your theme, but I can't
think of a case where I regretted paying for a "premium"
brand tool, even the ones I only use once in a blue moon.
There are, unfortunately, quite a few cases where I regretted
buying the economy brand, most of which have had to be
replaced...
John
On 12/2/2014 11:59 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> To me, a job site has a certain sound, a cadence to it when certain trades are on it. I expect to hear a certain amount of sawing, compressors running, nail guns, and I expect those sounds in a certain way depending on the trades on the job.
Well put...
I was thinking about the "sound", as well as the smell, of a
construction site as I was writing that, and how you
instinctively/subliminally know when things are going the way they are
supposed to be going, or not.
Working out of a construction trailer "office" a few years ago building
a house, a noise or smell, or absence thereof, was something reacted to
without even thinking about.
--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
On Wednesday, December 3, 2014 11:46:39 AM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote:
> On Tue, 2 Dec 2014 23:44:05 -0800 (PST), "[email protected]"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >After having my helpers break out a few wood handles when I started framing for myself, I changed to a 22oz Plumb fiberglass hammer.
> Can't beat a good leather handled steel shaft Estwing, in my opinion.
> You'l never break a handle, the head never comes loose, the leather
> grip is comfortable, and they are extremely well balanced.
The carpenters I worked with (I was the summer-job-during-college gofer)
preferred the wood handles. That little shock, when the head hits the nail,
can do a job on tendons, they said. The slight compliance of the wood
handle made a significant comfort difference.
On 12/2/2014 11:59 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 2, 2014 6:52:35 AM UTC-6, Swingman wrote:
>
>> That's one of the things we, as builders, have to watch for by actually
>> being on the job and _supervising_ .
>>
>> Not much actual supervising going on these days, but a lot of macho
>> cowboy playing with nail guns. From years of observation it appears to
>> be partly a youth thing, and partly cultural.
>
> The last two generations of "carpenters" (boy... do I use that term loosely) have grown up with nail guns. They don't worry about accurate placement of a fastener, they just hit it and go. And if three nails is good, then four nails is better, and five is superior.
Now be nice about those crews. :~) Most of them have had their "you
know whats" cut off and they proudly dangle them from the trailer hitch
on their trucks.
On Monday, December 1, 2014 11:44:20 PM UTC-6, Bill wrote:
> None of my "memories" had drywall guns in them. And they are still=20
> selling drywall hammers at the store (somebody's buying them).
Around here, they still use hammer and nails. One tap to set, one whack to =
drive it up. A second whack may be needed, but not often. Those guys are =
much faster than screw guns, and the cost of nails is a tiny fraction of sc=
rews. I saw that years ago when in the commercial end of things.
That being said, if I have helpers attaching sheetrock, I pop lines on the =
sheetrock and have them use screw guns. Reason being they don't beat the c=
rap out of the sheetrock, and none of them can drive a nail over their head=
. The screw gun is the right tool for them. And since I use a lot of 1 1/=
4" screws for repairs I always have them around.
Robert
On 12/1/2014 8:29 AM, Doug Winterburn wrote:
> On 12/01/2014 04:31 AM, dadiOH wrote:
>> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]
>>> On Sunday, November 30, 2014 6:56:51 PM UTC-6, Peter Bennett wrote:
>>
>>> As a sidebar, I must say that I truly enjoy taunting the "long time
>>> professionals" that come to work on my jobs that can't drive a nail. I
>>> have embarrassed more of them than I can count.
>>
>>
>> How many whacks for a 16d into yellow pine 2x4s?
>>
>>
> Don't know about yellow pine, but my brother (rest his soul) did a tap
> and whack to set 16ds in doug fir with a 24 ounce framing hammer.
>
>
Yellow Pine is almost a hard wood and can bend a nail to follow the
grain as it goes in.
On Tuesday, December 2, 2014 4:03:06 AM UTC-6, dadiOH wrote:
> > > How many whacks for a 16d into yellow pine 2x4s?
> >
> > When I was framing all day, one to set the nail, two to drive it and=20
> > sink
> > it 1/8" to 1/4". I had lots of practice, so at one time I rarely=20
> > missed.
>=20
> I'm impressed,
>=20
> People don't generally think of driving nails as a skill but it sure is=
=20
> (as the above and what I snipped show).
>=20
> Not easy either. A number of years ago, I had a bit of framing do do.=20
> The 16 oz. claw hammer I bought in 1943 didn't cut the mustard so I bough=
t=20
> a 24 oz. framing hammer. I was amazed by how heavy 24oz .became after a=
=20
> while :)
Wellllll...... it sounds more impressive than it was. I had to drive a few=
thousand nails to get to that point. And before it sounds like chest thum=
ping on my part, back them in the time before compressors and nail guns on =
job sites, on framing crews there were always a few guys that could do the =
same thing. And I found out that the better I could drive nails and saw boa=
rds, the less likely I was to be carrying materials across the job site and=
sweeping up.
Back then we were really picky about our hammers, and after having a few, I=
used a Vaughan 999, 20oz with an extra long handle. I wear a 35 inch slee=
ve, so the amount of leverage I could generate with that hammer was huge. =
I learned that the whole trick is in the bottom of the swing when you flick=
the wrist, NOT using your arm to drive a nail. Learn to sort and orient t=
he nails in your free hand while driving with the other, and you are on you=
r way!
After having my helpers break out a few wood handles when I started framing=
for myself, I changed to a 22oz Plumb fiberglass hammer. I used that so l=
ong and so much that I wore off one side of the hammer face. Apparently I =
have a bit of a sidearm motion.
Those were the days...
Robert
On Tue, 2 Dec 2014 23:44:05 -0800 (PST), "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Tuesday, December 2, 2014 4:03:06 AM UTC-6, dadiOH wrote:
>
>> > > How many whacks for a 16d into yellow pine 2x4s?
>> >
>> > When I was framing all day, one to set the nail, two to drive it and
>> > sink
>> > it 1/8" to 1/4". I had lots of practice, so at one time I rarely
>> > missed.
>>
>> I'm impressed,
>>
>> People don't generally think of driving nails as a skill but it sure is
>> (as the above and what I snipped show).
>>
>> Not easy either. A number of years ago, I had a bit of framing do do.
>> The 16 oz. claw hammer I bought in 1943 didn't cut the mustard so I bought
>> a 24 oz. framing hammer. I was amazed by how heavy 24oz .became after a
>> while :)
>
>Wellllll...... it sounds more impressive than it was. I had to drive a few thousand nails to get to that point. And before it sounds like chest thumping on my part, back them in the time before compressors and nail guns on job sites, on framing crews there were always a few guys that could do the same thing. And I found out that the better I could drive nails and saw boards, the less likely I was to be carrying materials across the job site and sweeping up.
>
>Back then we were really picky about our hammers, and after having a few, I used a Vaughan 999, 20oz with an extra long handle. I wear a 35 inch sleeve, so the amount of leverage I could generate with that hammer was huge. I learned that the whole trick is in the bottom of the swing when you flick the wrist, NOT using your arm to drive a nail. Learn to sort and orient the nails in your free hand while driving with the other, and you are on your way!
>
>After having my helpers break out a few wood handles when I started framing for myself, I changed to a 22oz Plumb fiberglass hammer. I used that so long and so much that I wore off one side of the hammer face. Apparently I have a bit of a sidearm motion.
>
>Those were the days...
>
>Robert
>
>
>
Can't beat a good leather handled steel shaft Estwing, in my opinion.
You'l never break a handle, the head never comes loose, the leather
grip is comfortable, and they are extremely well balanced.
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> On Sunday, November 30, 2014 6:56:51 PM UTC-6, Peter Bennett wrote:
> As a sidebar, I must say that I truly enjoy taunting the "long time
> professionals" that come to work on my jobs that can't drive a nail. I
> have embarrassed more of them than I can count.
How many whacks for a 16d into yellow pine 2x4s?
--
dadiOH
____________________________
Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net
[email protected] wrote:
> On Monday, December 1, 2014 5:31:18 AM UTC-6, dadiOH wrote:
>> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]
>>> On Sunday, November 30, 2014 6:56:51 PM UTC-6, Peter Bennett wrote:
>>> As a sidebar, I must say that I truly enjoy taunting the "long time
>>> professionals" that come to work on my jobs that can't drive a nail. I
>>> have embarrassed more of them than I can count.
>>
>> How many whacks for a 16d into yellow pine 2x4s?
> When I was framing all day, one to set the nail, two to drive it and sink it 1/8" to 1/4". I had lots of practice, so at one time I rarely missed.
>
> Once you get promoted from material mule and job site cleanup, you usually go to build up. So you stand and drive nails all day making corners, "T"s, bucks, headers, etc. Later, released into the general population after learning to drive a couple of thousand nails (literally) a day, then you get to nail off decking as well.
>
> As an teenager learning to drive them, my arms grew so weak during the day I couldn't grip a hammer. (Back on the broom I went...) My right arm and side hurt for months, then finally I got to where I could a drive a 50# box of 16d commons like the big boys.
>
> Couldn't do that now if my life depended on it.
>
> But I can drive nails "up" into wood, so upside down. I can and do drive all sizes of nails in tight spaces like this: lay the hammer on its side parallel with the floor with the head on your body side, handle facing away. Driving a nail in this position takes a lot of practice and skill as it is all wrist motion. Start the nail, and standing in front of the nail, drive it in by flipping the hammer with your wrist, keeping the hammer parallel with the floor.
>
> This is a really handy skill in tight places, or in special conditions. Although I can drive large nails doing this, I learned to do it when installing paneling and trims, so no misses! You get to an inside corner when installing paneling, sheetrock, or any other sheet goods and you face this problem, so it was a skill I had to learn. Now I see guys with their faces mashed onto an adjacent wall trying to carefully tap nails in holding the hammer in straight up and down, the only way they know to do it.
>
> Robert
My neighbor asked me why I used nails rather than screws to put up my
drywall, and though I didn't say it at the time, I think the best answer
is because I wanted to swing the hammer. Nails work BETTER than screws
near corners too, and leave a nicer dimple I think (could be I'm
inexperienced with screws).
Bill
Bill wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
>> On Monday, December 1, 2014 5:31:18 AM UTC-6, dadiOH wrote:
>>> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]
>>>> On Sunday, November 30, 2014 6:56:51 PM UTC-6, Peter Bennett wrote:
>>>> As a sidebar, I must say that I truly enjoy taunting the "long time
>>>> professionals" that come to work on my jobs that can't drive a
>>>> nail. I
>>>> have embarrassed more of them than I can count.
>>>
>>> How many whacks for a 16d into yellow pine 2x4s?
>> When I was framing all day, one to set the nail, two to drive it and
>> sink it 1/8" to 1/4". I had lots of practice, so at one time I
>> rarely missed.
>>
>> Once you get promoted from material mule and job site cleanup, you
>> usually go to build up. So you stand and drive nails all day making
>> corners, "T"s, bucks, headers, etc. Later, released into the general
>> population after learning to drive a couple of thousand nails
>> (literally) a day, then you get to nail off decking as well.
>>
>> As an teenager learning to drive them, my arms grew so weak during
>> the day I couldn't grip a hammer. (Back on the broom I went...) My
>> right arm and side hurt for months, then finally I got to where I
>> could a drive a 50# box of 16d commons like the big boys.
>>
>> Couldn't do that now if my life depended on it.
>>
>> But I can drive nails "up" into wood, so upside down. I can and do
>> drive all sizes of nails in tight spaces like this: lay the hammer
>> on its side parallel with the floor with the head on your body side,
>> handle facing away. Driving a nail in this position takes a lot of
>> practice and skill as it is all wrist motion. Start the nail, and
>> standing in front of the nail, drive it in by flipping the hammer
>> with your wrist, keeping the hammer parallel with the floor.
>>
>> This is a really handy skill in tight places, or in special
>> conditions. Although I can drive large nails doing this, I learned
>> to do it when installing paneling and trims, so no misses! You get
>> to an inside corner when installing paneling, sheetrock, or any other
>> sheet goods and you face this problem, so it was a skill I had to
>> learn. Now I see guys with their faces mashed onto an adjacent wall
>> trying to carefully tap nails in holding the hammer in straight up
>> and down, the only way they know to do it.
>>
>> Robert
>
> My neighbor asked me why I used nails rather than screws to put up my
> drywall, and though I didn't say it at the time, I think the best
> answer is because I wanted to swing the hammer. Nails work BETTER
> than screws near corners too, and leave a nicer dimple I think (could
> be I'm inexperienced with screws).
Thought I should clarify. By "corner", I meant the corner of
the piece of drywall.
>
> Bill
>
>
Bill wrote:
>
> My neighbor asked me why I used nails rather than screws to put up my
> drywall, and though I didn't say it at the time, I think the best
> answer is because I wanted to swing the hammer. Nails work BETTER
> than screws near corners too, and leave a nicer dimple I think (could
> be I'm inexperienced with screws).
>
Cornfused by what you are saying here Bill. How do you feel that nails work
better than screws?
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Mike Marlow wrote:
> Bill wrote:
>
>> My neighbor asked me why I used nails rather than screws to put up my
>> drywall, and though I didn't say it at the time, I think the best
>> answer is because I wanted to swing the hammer. Nails work BETTER
>> than screws near corners too, and leave a nicer dimple I think (could
>> be I'm inexperienced with screws).
>>
> Cornfused by what you are saying here Bill. How do you feel that nails work
> better than screws?
1. They leave a nicer/ more natural impression (made from the head of
the hammer) to fill in with drywall compound.
2. They don't disintegrate your drywall, if you should find occasion to
use one near near the edge or corner of the drywall (DAMHIKT).
3. They keep your arm in shape, so you don't become one of those people
Robert was talking about who don't know how to use a hammer.
Bill
>
Leon wrote:
> On 12/1/2014 9:21 PM, Bill wrote:
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Monday, December 1, 2014 5:31:18 AM UTC-6, dadiOH wrote:
>>>> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> news:[email protected]
>>>>> On Sunday, November 30, 2014 6:56:51 PM UTC-6, Peter Bennett wrote:
>>>>> As a sidebar, I must say that I truly enjoy taunting the "long time
>>>>> professionals" that come to work on my jobs that can't drive a
>>>>> nail. I
>>>>> have embarrassed more of them than I can count.
>>>>
>>>> How many whacks for a 16d into yellow pine 2x4s?
>>> When I was framing all day, one to set the nail, two to drive it and
>>> sink it 1/8" to 1/4". I had lots of practice, so at one time I rarely
>>> missed.
>>>
>>> Once you get promoted from material mule and job site cleanup, you
>>> usually go to build up. So you stand and drive nails all day making
>>> corners, "T"s, bucks, headers, etc. Later, released into the general
>>> population after learning to drive a couple of thousand nails
>>> (literally) a day, then you get to nail off decking as well.
>>>
>>> As an teenager learning to drive them, my arms grew so weak during the
>>> day I couldn't grip a hammer. (Back on the broom I went...) My right
>>> arm and side hurt for months, then finally I got to where I could a
>>> drive a 50# box of 16d commons like the big boys.
>>>
>>> Couldn't do that now if my life depended on it.
>>>
>>> But I can drive nails "up" into wood, so upside down. I can and do
>>> drive all sizes of nails in tight spaces like this: lay the hammer on
>>> its side parallel with the floor with the head on your body side,
>>> handle facing away. Driving a nail in this position takes a lot of
>>> practice and skill as it is all wrist motion. Start the nail, and
>>> standing in front of the nail, drive it in by flipping the hammer with
>>> your wrist, keeping the hammer parallel with the floor.
>>>
>>> This is a really handy skill in tight places, or in special
>>> conditions. Although I can drive large nails doing this, I learned to
>>> do it when installing paneling and trims, so no misses! You get to an
>>> inside corner when installing paneling, sheetrock, or any other sheet
>>> goods and you face this problem, so it was a skill I had to learn.
>>> Now I see guys with their faces mashed onto an adjacent wall trying to
>>> carefully tap nails in holding the hammer in straight up and down, the
>>> only way they know to do it.
>>>
>>> Robert
>>
>> My neighbor asked me why I used nails rather than screws to put up my
>> drywall, and though I didn't say it at the time, I think the best answer
>> is because I wanted to swing the hammer. Nails work BETTER than screws
>> near corners too, and leave a nicer dimple I think (could be I'm
>> inexperienced with screws).
>>
>> Bill
>>
>>
>
> typically in my new neighborhood the installers use nails to "get it
> hung in place, sometimes. But for the mass of the attaching it is
> with a drywall gun. These screw guns will not over drive and leave a
> smaller dimple to have to fill.
>
> And the screws tend to not pop back out down the line.
Sometimes I let my emotions get in the way. I admit that for me it was
mostly a sentimental choice.
None of my "memories" had drywall guns in them. And they are still
selling drywall hammers at the store (somebody's buying them).
[email protected] wrote:
> That being said, if I have helpers attaching sheetrock, I pop lines on the sheetrock and have them use screw guns. Reason being they don't beat the crap out of the sheetrock, and none of them can drive a nail over their head.
I snapped chalk lines on my sheetrock too (putting masking tape on the
floor first). Otherwise, I'd have been too afraid of "missing" with my
hammer. I found other ways to ruin sheets of drywall. For instance, I
think the difference between lengths measured on the inside and outside
of my framing square is about 2". I bought an extra sheet on my first
trip, but had to go back for more twice.
Ah, that was a fun project. My taping improved dramatically after I
started dipping the paper tape in water first. Maybe if I had mixed my
own joint compound, I could have compensated by using more water. Not
sure, but I know my "failure rate" was about 30% until I started
dipping, and maybe 5% after that. I hope my comments help motivate
someone to try it. The other secret I learned is to be organized. I
marked off and numbered my drywall with a pencil into 16-32" partitions,
top (A) and bottom (B), which I used to help keep track of which ones
still needed this or that, from day to day. That system made the
complexity manageable for me. I finished the day by making a list, on
paper, of the next day's goals. That really helped when the next day
turns out to be a week or more later, and all the walls looked the same
(hard to believe, but true).
Bill
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> On Monday, December 1, 2014 5:31:18 AM UTC-6, dadiOH wrote:
> > <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]
> > > On Sunday, November 30, 2014 6:56:51 PM UTC-6, Peter Bennett wrote:
> >
> > > As a sidebar, I must say that I truly enjoy taunting the "long time
> > > professionals" that come to work on my jobs that can't drive a nail.
> > > I have embarrassed more of them than I can count.
> >
> >
> > How many whacks for a 16d into yellow pine 2x4s?
>
> When I was framing all day, one to set the nail, two to drive it and
> sink
> it 1/8" to 1/4". I had lots of practice, so at one time I rarely
> missed.
I'm impressed,
People don't generally think of driving nails as a skill but it sure is
(as the above and what I snipped show).
Not easy either. A number of years ago, I had a bit of framing do do.
The 16 oz. claw hammer I bought in 1943 didn't cut the mustard so I bought
a 24 oz. framing hammer. I was amazed by how heavy 24oz .became after a
while :)
--
dadiOH
____________________________
Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net
wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Back then we were really picky about our hammers, and after having a few, I
used a Vaughan 999, 20oz with an extra long handle. I wear a 35 inch
sleeve, so the amount of leverage I could generate with that hammer was
huge. I learned that the whole trick is in the bottom of the swing when you
flick the wrist, NOT using your arm to drive a nail. Learn to sort and
orient the nails in your free hand while driving with the other, and you are
on your way!
********************
Was that the steel shank? If it was, I loved it and it is discontinued. I
wore out two of them. I wish I could get another one.
-- Jim in NC
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
http://www.avast.com
Can't beat a good leather handled steel shaft Estwing, in my opinion.
You'l never break a handle, the head never comes loose, the leather
grip is comfortable, and they are extremely well balanced.
*********************
Good product, but I have an abnormally large palm and it makes for a large
grip. Those Estwings have a very small diameter handle, so much so that my
finger nails dig into my hand when gripping the hammer.
-- Jim in NC
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
http://www.avast.com
wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
On Thursday, December 4, 2014 4:03:48 AM UTC-6, Morgans wrote:
> Was that the steel shank? If it was, I loved it and it is discontinued.
> I
> wore out two of them. I wish I could get another one.
>
> -- Jim in NC
Nope, it was this one.
http://www.amazon.com/Vaughan-999L-20-Ounce-Professional-Framing/dp/B00004Z2WZ
Note the 16" handle!
**Yep. I have swung one of those. Did not care for the balance.
We never used the steel handled hammers as too many of us that hammered
nails all day long started coming up with bad elbow pain. It was finally
isolated to the steel handles which a lot of us liked since the handles
didn' break. Bend, yes. Break, no. But there were industry reports, etc.,
that came out at the time that were from industrial occupational doctors
that studied it.
**My Uncle was an old time carpenter, and he said never swing more than a 20
or risk the elbow. I took it to heart.
As a sidebar, there are several hammers now that LOOK the same, but aren't.
They have tuning forks, plugs, and all kinds of things in them to resolve
that issue. Not sure it was a needed fix as you had to drive a few hundred
nails a day to have that problem show up. NO ONE I know now drives more
than a couple of hundred nails by hand a day anymore.
** Mine had a hardwood plug in the top of the head where the handle would
come through if it was wood. I never had a problem with my elbow, even
though I wore out two of them.
**You are right about today nobody pounds nails.
**I did mostly framing for a while, then turnkey, then taught for over 21
years. In those teaching years, I tried to not even carry more than a tape
and pencil on most days. If I pounded a nail, a student didn't get to pound
that one.
**Then I retired and ended going back to work as a crew leader, a working
crew leader. At 56 I could still work a 26 year old under the table. And
they nicknamed me "hand drive" because I carried a hammer and tool bag with
nails and used them frequently! Harrumph!
-- Jim in NC
I had the same problem that Morgans did, and that was the fact the handles
were too skinny for my meaty palms on those Estwings. I used those Vaughans
until they finally got the fiberglass Plumbs right, then went to a 22oz
version of their framing hammer. No more broken handles.
Robert
---
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On 12/3/2014 2:46 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Tue, 2 Dec 2014 23:44:05 -0800 (PST), "[email protected]"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On Tuesday, December 2, 2014 4:03:06 AM UTC-6, dadiOH wrote:
>>
>>>>> How many whacks for a 16d into yellow pine 2x4s?
>>>>
>>>> When I was framing all day, one to set the nail, two to drive it and
>>>> sink
>>>> it 1/8" to 1/4". I had lots of practice, so at one time I rarely
>>>> missed.
>>>
>>> I'm impressed,
>>>
>>> People don't generally think of driving nails as a skill but it sure is
>>> (as the above and what I snipped show).
>>>
>>> Not easy either. A number of years ago, I had a bit of framing do do.
>>> The 16 oz. claw hammer I bought in 1943 didn't cut the mustard so I bought
>>> a 24 oz. framing hammer. I was amazed by how heavy 24oz .became after a
>>> while :)
>>
>> Wellllll...... it sounds more impressive than it was. I had to drive a few thousand nails to get to that point. And before it sounds like chest thumping on my part, back them in the time before compressors and nail guns on job sites, on framing crews there were always a few guys that could do the same thing. And I found out that the better I could drive nails and saw boards, the less likely I was to be carrying materials across the job site and sweeping up.
>>
>> Back then we were really picky about our hammers, and after having a few, I used a Vaughan 999, 20oz with an extra long handle. I wear a 35 inch sleeve, so the amount of leverage I could generate with that hammer was huge. I learned that the whole trick is in the bottom of the swing when you flick the wrist, NOT using your arm to drive a nail. Learn to sort and orient the nails in your free hand while driving with the other, and you are on your way!
>>
>> After having my helpers break out a few wood handles when I started framing for myself, I changed to a 22oz Plumb fiberglass hammer. I used that so long and so much that I wore off one side of the hammer face. Apparently I have a bit of a sidearm motion.
>>
>> Those were the days...
>>
>> Robert
>>
>>
>>
> Can't beat a good leather handled steel shaft Estwing, in my opinion.
> You'l never break a handle, the head never comes loose, the leather
> grip is comfortable, and they are extremely well balanced.
>
>
I'm still looking for mine, some how it disappeared. I have the rubber
one too, but I really liked the leather one. it was a lighter hammer
than my rubber handled one I think it was about 16oz.. I think everyone
makes an Estwing clone now. so it's not a big deal, but they are very
good hammers.
--
Jeff
On 12/1/2014 9:21 PM, Bill wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
>> On Monday, December 1, 2014 5:31:18 AM UTC-6, dadiOH wrote:
>>> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]
>>>> On Sunday, November 30, 2014 6:56:51 PM UTC-6, Peter Bennett wrote:
>>>> As a sidebar, I must say that I truly enjoy taunting the "long time
>>>> professionals" that come to work on my jobs that can't drive a nail. I
>>>> have embarrassed more of them than I can count.
>>>
>>> How many whacks for a 16d into yellow pine 2x4s?
>> When I was framing all day, one to set the nail, two to drive it and
>> sink it 1/8" to 1/4". I had lots of practice, so at one time I rarely
>> missed.
>>
>> Once you get promoted from material mule and job site cleanup, you
>> usually go to build up. So you stand and drive nails all day making
>> corners, "T"s, bucks, headers, etc. Later, released into the general
>> population after learning to drive a couple of thousand nails
>> (literally) a day, then you get to nail off decking as well.
>>
>> As an teenager learning to drive them, my arms grew so weak during the
>> day I couldn't grip a hammer. (Back on the broom I went...) My right
>> arm and side hurt for months, then finally I got to where I could a
>> drive a 50# box of 16d commons like the big boys.
>>
>> Couldn't do that now if my life depended on it.
>>
>> But I can drive nails "up" into wood, so upside down. I can and do
>> drive all sizes of nails in tight spaces like this: lay the hammer on
>> its side parallel with the floor with the head on your body side,
>> handle facing away. Driving a nail in this position takes a lot of
>> practice and skill as it is all wrist motion. Start the nail, and
>> standing in front of the nail, drive it in by flipping the hammer with
>> your wrist, keeping the hammer parallel with the floor.
>>
>> This is a really handy skill in tight places, or in special
>> conditions. Although I can drive large nails doing this, I learned to
>> do it when installing paneling and trims, so no misses! You get to an
>> inside corner when installing paneling, sheetrock, or any other sheet
>> goods and you face this problem, so it was a skill I had to learn.
>> Now I see guys with their faces mashed onto an adjacent wall trying to
>> carefully tap nails in holding the hammer in straight up and down, the
>> only way they know to do it.
>>
>> Robert
>
> My neighbor asked me why I used nails rather than screws to put up my
> drywall, and though I didn't say it at the time, I think the best answer
> is because I wanted to swing the hammer. Nails work BETTER than screws
> near corners too, and leave a nicer dimple I think (could be I'm
> inexperienced with screws).
>
> Bill
>
>
typically in my new neighborhood the installers use nails to "get it
hung in place, sometimes. But for the mass of the attaching it is with
a drywall gun. These screw guns will not over drive and leave a smaller
dimple to have to fill.
And the screws tend to not pop back out down the line.
On 12/3/2014 1:44 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> People don't generally think of driving nails as a skill but it sure is
Ask any horse who has had a set of horse shoes nailed on. ;)
In my farrier days I got to where I could make a horseshoe nail curve
out at a precise line on a hoof based on the sound, the feel, and force
of the shoeing hammer blow.
Quick a horse with a nail and you get a reflexive jerk of its leg that
can shred your fingers and/or legs on nails already driven, but yet to
be clinched.
And, as for a 1200 pound horse appreciating accuracy with the hammer,
there is no need for words. :)
--
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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
On Sun, 30 Nov 2014 13:19:32 -0800 (PST), "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Second would have to be a framing nail gun. At one time these were precision tools, and were priced the same way. I >bought my first nail gun in '78 for $495. To put that in perspective, I bought my second used pickup 4 years before >that for $750! It was expensive since I had to buy hoses and a compressor to go with it for another $400, but worth >it. This was a solution for me at a time when the young guys weren't able to drive nails all day, so it made a lousy >hand pretty good. The young guys lined up to do buildup all day as they loved shooting the nail guns. Since the job >site idiot could now shoot a couple of thousand nails accurately to nailing specs very rapidly without tiring, the gun >paid for itself in no time. This was a game changer in its day for the simple reason you had 100X the speed of >driving framing nails over hand driven, and you could have someone just over the laborer status on the job master the >gun.
>
>Seems like things have been slower than usual on the NG, so I thought I would post some random thoughts.
>
>Robert
Having a couple of houses under construction within earshot has made
me wonder how many more nails are used in house construction now that
we have nail guns. It seems like they drive half a dozen nails in
each joint.
--
Peter Bennett, VE7CEI Vancouver BC
peterbb (at) telus.net
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