Lew Hodgett wrote:
> Regardless of your personal opinion of the man, he has a idea worthy
> of exploration.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/yaa4yeh
>
Just proves that being rich doesn't make you smart and it doesn't take being
wise to make one rich.
He's right, but for the wrong reasons. We - or most of the world - can use
cheap energy. We already have plenty of clean energy, it's just not cheap.
And if energy is more important than vaccines, into which he's poured
billions, how about he gives upon inoculations and devote his resources to
Uranium?
In article <[email protected]>, Lew Hodgett
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Regardless of your personal opinion of the man, he has a idea worthy
> of exploration.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/yaa4yeh
""You'd be stunned at the ridiculously low costs of innovation," said
Gates, who received a standing ovation for his remarks."
If he'd actually innovated ANYTHING after Excel for Mac in the 1980's,
I might have some respect for the weasel.
But he didn't, and I don't.
In article <[email protected]>, Leon
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Jealous?
Not even the teensiest bit.
On Feb 13, 12:19=A0pm, Morris Dovey <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 2/13/2010 10:50 AM, Robatoy wrote:
>
> > If some guy invented a free source of energy which would put the oil
> > companies out of business, he'd be dead, branded a kook, get bought,
> > jailed on a trumped up charge, shipped to Gitmo...that is IF the oil
> > companies had some clout in congress.
>
> Silly, it's common knowledge that you can't get energy for free...
>
> :-D
>
> --
> Morris Dovey
> DeSoto Solar
> DeSoto, Iowa USAhttp://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
Sooo, "O Wise One=99" what is helping to keep my shop all nice and
toasty? Huh? Huh?
<G>
On Feb 13, 6:01=A0pm, [email protected] (Robert Bonomi) wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
>
>
>
>
>
> -MIKE- =A0<[email protected]> wrote:
> >On 2/12/10 10:11 PM, Robatoy wrote:
> >>> "Windows 7 was my idea....15 years ago when I called it Mac System 9.=
"
> >>> --Steve Jobs
>
> >> The box said:
> >> System requirement: "Windows 95 or better"
> >> .
> >> .
> >> .
> >> so I bought a mac.
>
> >Nice. =A0 :-)
>
> >Besides, I'm running Windows XP & 7 on my Mac.... just for giggles.
>
> >Every night, when I shut down the Leopard asks for an enema. =A0 :-)
>
> Is that a deliberately catty remark?
You win. By a whisker.
"Morris Dovey" wrote
>
> I was updating the web page in my sig last week (feeling pleased that
> those panels had already paid for themselves) when it occurred to me to do
> another calculation: over the life of those panels, even if there is _no_
> change to the price of propane, the savings they produce will exceed the
> cost of the building in which they're installed!
> --
I don't care how math challenged you are, those are impressive numbers!
Especially considering that this was not done in a southern state.
Besides, the southern states are all buried under snow right now! :)
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Regardless of your personal opinion of the man, he has a idea worthy
>of exploration.
>
>http://tinyurl.com/yaa4yeh
It's kinda like he said "look at all the wheat we have, let's figure
out how to make bread out of it".
Oh, wait, we *already* know how to do that.
D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.
http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/
-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL
On Feb 13, 10:05=A0pm, [email protected] (Robert Bonomi)
wrote:
> In article <[email protected]=
.com>,
>
> Robatoy =A0<[email protected]> wrote:
> >On Feb 13, 7:22=A0pm, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> On 2/13/10 5:01 PM, Robert Bonomi wrote:
>
> >> >> Besides, I'm running Windows XP& =A07 on my Mac.... just for giggle=
s.
>
> >> >> Every night, when I shut down the Leopard asks for an enema. =A0 :-=
)
>
> >> > Is that a deliberately catty remark?
>
> >> Boooooooo!
>
> >He went fur broke on that one.
>
> HEY!! =A0I'm not gonna take that lion down.
..and so never the mane shall tweet.
On Feb 13, 10:45=A0pm, "Nonny" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Robert Bonomi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article
> > <9b93219c-e292-4b9a-aab4-bc3c32640...@y33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
> > Robatoy =A0<[email protected]> wrote:
> >>On Feb 13, 7:22 pm, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>> On 2/13/10 5:01 PM, Robert Bonomi wrote:
>
> >>> >> Besides, I'm running Windows XP& =A07 on my Mac.... just for
> >>> >> giggles.
>
> >>> >> Every night, when I shut down the Leopard asks for an
> >>> >> enema. =A0 :-)
>
> >>> > Is that a deliberately catty remark?
>
> >>> Boooooooo!
>
> >>He went fur broke on that one.
>
> > HEY!! =A0I'm not gonna take that lion down.
>
> You're lion about that. <Grin>
>
No he isn't.. he's no cheetah
On Feb 12, 10:30=A0pm, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 2/12/10 9:25 PM, Dave Balderstone wrote:
>
> > In article<[email protected]>, Lew Hodgett
> > <[email protected]> =A0wrote:
>
> >> Regardless of your personal opinion of the man, he has a idea worthy
> >> of exploration.
>
> >>http://tinyurl.com/yaa4yeh
>
> > ""You'd be stunned at the ridiculously low costs of innovation," said
> > Gates, who received a standing ovation for his remarks."
>
> > If he'd actually innovated ANYTHING after Excel for Mac in the 1980's,
> > I might have some respect for the weasel.
>
> > But he didn't, and I don't.
>
> "Windows 7 was my idea....15 years ago when I called it Mac System 9."
> --Steve Jobs
>
> --
>
> =A0 -MIKE-
>
> =A0 "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
> =A0 =A0 =A0--Elvin Jones =A0(1927-2004)
> =A0 --
> =A0http://mikedrums.com
> =A0 [email protected]
> =A0 ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
The box said:
System requirement: "Windows 95 or better"
.
.
.
so I bought a mac.
On Feb 15, 3:21=A0pm, Larry Jaques <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 09:44:16 -0800 (PST), the infamous Robatoy
> <[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Feb 13, 12:19=A0pm, Morris Dovey <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> On 2/13/2010 10:50 AM, Robatoy wrote:
>
> >> > If some guy invented a free source of energy which would put the oil
> >> > companies out of business, he'd be dead, branded a kook, get bought,
> >> > jailed on a trumped up charge, shipped to Gitmo...that is IF the oil
> >> > companies had some clout in congress.
>
> >> Silly, it's common knowledge that you can't get energy for free...
>
> >> :-D
>
> >> --
> >> Morris Dovey
> >> DeSoto Solar
> >> DeSoto, Iowa USAhttp://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
>
> >Sooo, "O Wise One=99" what is helping to keep my shop all nice and
> >toasty? Huh? Huh?
>
> ><G>
>
> 5 grand worth of imported (from DeSoto, Iowa) solar panels, maybe?
>
> --
> It's a great life...once you weaken.
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 --author James Hogan
Naa.. just swapped him for some metal.
On Feb 13, 6:36=A0pm, Morris Dovey <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 2/13/2010 3:44 PM, dpb wrote:
>
> > I'm not saying it isn't nor can't be valuable...and in the right
> > circumstances may even have a positive payback over some time frame.
>
> That was my conclusion, too. When I took a really close look, I noticed
> some "low hanging fruit" that offered remarkably short (2 to 3 year)
> payback periods. One of these, of course, is the passive solar heating
> panel - but there's still a fair amount of fruit on those low branches.
>
> The big surprise for me (and for a lot of others) is that the best of
> the low-hanging fruit is simple, almost primitively simple, in operation
> but requires fairly high levels of understanding in multiple disciplines
> to design. I happened to be "blessed" with a whole team of patient
> mentors who helped me learn what I needed and steered me away from blind
> alleys.
>
> Positive payback is a term worth thinking about - a lot. Direct
> financial payback, of course, is always satisfying - but payback can
> take many forms, and it's possible to aim for multiple paybacks (they're
> not necessarily mutually exclusive) and so /along with/ financial
> payback it may be possible to also have social and environmental paybacks=
.
>
> I was updating the web page in my sig last week (feeling pleased that
> those panels had already paid for themselves) when it occurred to me to
> do another calculation: over the life of those panels, even if there is
> _no_ change to the price of propane, the savings they produce will
> exceed the cost of the building in which they're installed!
>
> --
> Morris Dovey
> DeSoto Solar
> DeSoto, Iowa USAhttp://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
Also 'payback' is often misunderstood. In many cases, the outlay, per
month, to supply heat to a shop can stay the same, but the money
changes direction. Instead of sending your money to a energy supplier,
you now pay it to support an investment. The tax structure changes as
well.
If I, as an individual, lend my business money to buy heating
equipment, I get some tax advantages and incentives as well.
On Feb 13, 7:22=A0pm, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 2/13/10 5:01 PM, Robert Bonomi wrote:
>
>
>
> >> Besides, I'm running Windows XP& =A07 on my Mac.... just for giggles.
>
> >> Every night, when I shut down the Leopard asks for an enema. =A0 :-)
>
> > Is that a deliberately catty remark?
>
> Boooooooo!
>
> --
>
> =A0 -MIKE-
>
> =A0 "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
> =A0 =A0 =A0--Elvin Jones =A0(1927-2004)
> =A0 --
> =A0http://mikedrums.com
> =A0 [email protected]
> =A0 ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
He went fur broke on that one.
"Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 2/13/2010 10:50 AM, Robatoy wrote:
>
>> If some guy invented a free source of energy which would put the oil
>> companies out of business, he'd be dead, branded a kook, get bought,
>> jailed on a trumped up charge, shipped to Gitmo...that is IF the oil
>> companies had some clout in congress.
>
> Silly, it's common knowledge that you can't get energy for free...
>
> :-D
No kidding free energy would require heat and Al Gore is doing his best to
make sure we all pay for that.
"Dave Balderstone" <dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca> wrote in message
news:120220102125468331%dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca...
> In article <[email protected]>, Lew Hodgett
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Regardless of your personal opinion of the man, he has a idea worthy
>> of exploration.
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/yaa4yeh
>
> ""You'd be stunned at the ridiculously low costs of innovation," said
> Gates, who received a standing ovation for his remarks."
>
> If he'd actually innovated ANYTHING after Excel for Mac in the 1980's,
> I might have some respect for the weasel.
>
> But he didn't, and I don't.
Jealous?
In article <[email protected]>,
-MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 2/12/10 10:11 PM, Robatoy wrote:
>>> "Windows 7 was my idea....15 years ago when I called it Mac System 9."
>>> --Steve Jobs
>>>
>>
>> The box said:
>> System requirement: "Windows 95 or better"
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> so I bought a mac.
>
>
>Nice. :-)
>
>Besides, I'm running Windows XP & 7 on my Mac.... just for giggles.
>
>Every night, when I shut down the Leopard asks for an enema. :-)
>
Is that a deliberately catty remark?
On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 17:30:26 -0800, "Lew Hodgett"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Regardless of your personal opinion of the man, he has a idea worthy
>of exploration.
>
>http://tinyurl.com/yaa4yeh
This:
"Gates spent a significant portion of his speech highlighting nuclear
technology that would turn spent uranium -- the 99 percent of uranium
rods that aren't burned in current nuclear power plants -- into
electricity."
Is something that I've been saying for at least 30 years. Former
Washington State governor Dixie Lee Ray once said that we should be
storing all our spent nuclear waste where we could get at it easily
because one day we would want it to be able to use the energy
remaining in it. Instead we have adopted a policy of trying to hide it
as far away as possible.
Ah! the foolishness of man!
--
"We need to make a sacrifice to the gods, find me a young virgin... oh, and bring something to kill"
Tim Douglass
http://www.DouglassClan.com
On Feb 12, 10:36=A0pm, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Dave Balderstone" <dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca> wrote in message
>
> news:120220102125468331%dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca...
>
> > In article <[email protected]>, Lew Hodgett
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> Regardless of your personal opinion of the man, he has a idea worthy
> >> of exploration.
>
> >>http://tinyurl.com/yaa4yeh
>
> > ""You'd be stunned at the ridiculously low costs of innovation," said
> > Gates, who received a standing ovation for his remarks."
>
> > If he'd actually innovated ANYTHING after Excel for Mac in the 1980's,
> > I might have some respect for the weasel.
>
> > But he didn't, and I don't.
>
> Jealous?
Celine Dion is one of the richest performers in the world, and she
can't sing.
On Feb 12, 8:30=A0pm, "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Regardless of your personal opinion of the man, he has a idea worthy
> of exploration.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/yaa4yeh
>
> Lew
If some guy invented a free source of energy which would put the oil
companies out of business, he'd be dead, branded a kook, get bought,
jailed on a trumped up charge, shipped to Gitmo...that is IF the oil
companies had some clout in congress.
On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 12:08:47 -0600, Morris Dovey <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On 2/13/2010 11:44 AM, Robatoy wrote:
>> On Feb 13, 12:19 pm, Morris Dovey<[email protected]> wrote:
>>> On 2/13/2010 10:50 AM, Robatoy wrote:
>>>
>>>> If some guy invented a free source of energy which would put the oil
>>>> companies out of business, he'd be dead, branded a kook, get bought,
>>>> jailed on a trumped up charge, shipped to Gitmo...that is IF the oil
>>>> companies had some clout in congress.
>>>
>>> Silly, it's common knowledge that you can't get energy for free...
>>>
>>> :-D
>>
>> Sooo, "O Wise One" what is helping to keep my shop all nice and
>> toasty? Huh? Huh?
>>
>> <G>
>
>Probably some non-threatening kook who's beginning to think that the
>weather at Gitmo-By-The-Sea can't be all /that/ bad...
Hurricanes?
Mark
On Feb 13, 1:03=A0am, [email protected] (Derek Lyons) wrote:
> "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >Regardless of your personal opinion of the man, he has a idea worthy
> >of exploration.
>
> >http://tinyurl.com/yaa4yeh
>
> It's kinda like he said "look at all the wheat we have, let's figure
> out how to make bread out of it".
>
> Oh, wait, we *already* know how to do that.
>
> D.
> --
> Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.
>
> http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/
>
> -Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
> Oct 5th, 2004 JDL
I think the point there is simple: we know how, but we're not doing
it.
We need to begin doing it, something like me and losing weight.
2050 puts it into the era when my grandchildren will be coming up for
retirement, but with one exception, they've got their heads too far up
their asses to get involved in anything outside themselves...from what
I've seen, that's not at all unusual, and is one result of making it
too frigging easy for several generations, starting with mine. They,
though, are the second generation that has started out expecting to
begin with more than their parents are finishing with.
"Dave Balderstone" <dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca> wrote in message
news:130220101000195057%dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca...
> In article <[email protected]>, Leon
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>> Jealous?
>
> Not even the teensiest bit.
Could'a fooled me.
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Regardless of your personal opinion of the man, he has a idea worthy of
> exploration.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/yaa4yeh
>
> Lew
If the money and effort that has gone into sky is falling prognostications
and whining had gone into the research Gates discusses, we'd be there
already.
Unfortunately some of the biggest whiners have figured out how to make a
buck from fear and loathing.
On 2/12/2010 8:30 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
> Regardless of your personal opinion of the man, he has a idea worthy
> of exploration.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/yaa4yeh
>
> Lew
>
>
>
>
We would have clean nuclear energy systems that uses all of the waste
produced, IF during the past 40 years the country had worked as hard to
find solutions for the perceived problems, as the country has worked to
avoid the ultimate conclusion that we MUST use nuclear energy.
We solved the chemical and physical problems of purifying Uranium in
about 4 years; 1941 to 1945. Given the same resources in 40 years it is
impossible to imaging the amount of clean energy we could have had today.
There are still those that are still trying to use impractical ideas to
avoid make the ultimate decision.
Paraphrase an old saying; you can lead a horse to water, but eventually
the horse must drink or die.
On 2/12/10 9:25 PM, Dave Balderstone wrote:
> In article<[email protected]>, Lew Hodgett
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Regardless of your personal opinion of the man, he has a idea worthy
>> of exploration.
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/yaa4yeh
>
> ""You'd be stunned at the ridiculously low costs of innovation," said
> Gates, who received a standing ovation for his remarks."
>
> If he'd actually innovated ANYTHING after Excel for Mac in the 1980's,
> I might have some respect for the weasel.
>
> But he didn't, and I don't.
"Windows 7 was my idea....15 years ago when I called it Mac System 9."
--Steve Jobs
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 2/12/2010 9:36 PM, Leon wrote:
> Jealous?
Good question. I just did a self-check and decided that I'd rather be my
not-so-well-off self than be him with $34B in the bank.
Especially while shaving...
...b'sides, /my/ software's better. :)
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
On 2/12/10 10:11 PM, Robatoy wrote:
>> "Windows 7 was my idea....15 years ago when I called it Mac System 9."
>> --Steve Jobs
>>
>
> The box said:
> System requirement: "Windows 95 or better"
> .
> .
> .
> so I bought a mac.
Nice. :-)
Besides, I'm running Windows XP & 7 on my Mac.... just for giggles.
Every night, when I shut down the Leopard asks for an enema. :-)
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 2/13/2010 10:50 AM, Robatoy wrote:
> If some guy invented a free source of energy which would put the oil
> companies out of business, he'd be dead, branded a kook, get bought,
> jailed on a trumped up charge, shipped to Gitmo...that is IF the oil
> companies had some clout in congress.
Silly, it's common knowledge that you can't get energy for free...
:-D
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
On 2/13/2010 11:44 AM, Robatoy wrote:
> On Feb 13, 12:19 pm, Morris Dovey<[email protected]> wrote:
>> On 2/13/2010 10:50 AM, Robatoy wrote:
>>
>>> If some guy invented a free source of energy which would put the oil
>>> companies out of business, he'd be dead, branded a kook, get bought,
>>> jailed on a trumped up charge, shipped to Gitmo...that is IF the oil
>>> companies had some clout in congress.
>>
>> Silly, it's common knowledge that you can't get energy for free...
>>
>> :-D
>
> Sooo, "O Wise One" what is helping to keep my shop all nice and
> toasty? Huh? Huh?
>
> <G>
Probably some non-threatening kook who's beginning to think that the
weather at Gitmo-By-The-Sea can't be all /that/ bad...
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
Robatoy wrote:
> On Feb 13, 12:19 pm, Morris Dovey <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On 2/13/2010 10:50 AM, Robatoy wrote:
>>
>>> If some guy invented a free source of energy which would put the oil
>>> companies out of business, he'd be dead, branded a kook, get bought,
>>> jailed on a trumped up charge, shipped to Gitmo...that is IF the oil
>>> companies had some clout in congress.
>> Silly, it's common knowledge that you can't get energy for free...
>>
>> :-D
>>
>> --
>> Morris Dovey
>> DeSoto Solar
>> DeSoto, Iowa USAhttp://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
>
> Sooo, "O Wise One" what is helping to keep my shop all nice and
> toasty? Huh? Huh?
>
> <G>
And, of course, even if the energy fuel source itself is free, the
accoutrements required to utilize it aren't...
--
On 2/13/2010 12:45 PM, dpb wrote:
> And, of course, even if the energy fuel source itself is free, the
> accoutrements required to utilize it aren't...
There is that aspect. OTOH, folks don't seem to much value nor draw
satisfaction from that which comes their way without cost.
From the production standpoint, the effort to produce such devices for
people who didn't value them and who derived no satisfaction from using
them, would rather quickly become pointless.
Still, one can bone up on math and physics, delve into fluid dynamics
and heat transfer, refresh the hazy thermodynics memories, and then
proceed more or less directly to a design of ones own. At that point all
that's needed is to get the right materials into an appropriately
equipped shop and do the assembly. If you happen to have all the right
stuff, I suppose it /could/ be free...
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
Morris Dovey wrote:
> On 2/13/2010 12:45 PM, dpb wrote:
>
>> And, of course, even if the energy fuel source itself is free, the
>> accoutrements required to utilize it aren't...
>
> There is that aspect. OTOH, folks don't seem to much value nor draw
> satisfaction from that which comes their way without cost.
>
> From the production standpoint, the effort to produce such devices for
> people who didn't value them and who derived no satisfaction from using
> them, would rather quickly become pointless.
I'm not saying it isn't nor can't be valuable...and in the right
circumstances may even have a positive payback over some time frame.
> Still, one can bone up on math and physics, delve into fluid dynamics
> and heat transfer, refresh the hazy thermodynics memories, and then
> proceed more or less directly to a design of ones own. At that point all
> that's needed is to get the right materials into an appropriately
> equipped shop and do the assembly. If you happen to have all the right
> stuff, I suppose it /could/ be free...
For some definition of free I suppose... :)
The "stuff" will have had to come from _somewhere_ ... and we all know
what shops are: merely alternatives or substitutes for the boat or
other endless resource sink. :)
There's still no free lunch (unfortunately).
--
"HeyBub" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Lew Hodgett wrote:
>> Regardless of your personal opinion of the man, he has a idea worthy
>> of exploration.
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/yaa4yeh
>>
>
> Just proves that being rich doesn't make you smart and it doesn't take
> being wise to make one rich.
>
> He's right, but for the wrong reasons. We - or most of the world - can use
> cheap energy. We already have plenty of clean energy, it's just not cheap.
>
> And if energy is more important than vaccines, into which he's poured
> billions, how about he gives upon inoculations and devote his resources to
> Uranium?
>
It wasn't that long ago that Gates was criticized for Not giving away money.
Now he's being criticized for giving it away to the 'wrong' people. Thus
proving no matter how much money you have, you just can't win.
On 2/13/2010 3:44 PM, dpb wrote:
> I'm not saying it isn't nor can't be valuable...and in the right
> circumstances may even have a positive payback over some time frame.
That was my conclusion, too. When I took a really close look, I noticed
some "low hanging fruit" that offered remarkably short (2 to 3 year)
payback periods. One of these, of course, is the passive solar heating
panel - but there's still a fair amount of fruit on those low branches.
The big surprise for me (and for a lot of others) is that the best of
the low-hanging fruit is simple, almost primitively simple, in operation
but requires fairly high levels of understanding in multiple disciplines
to design. I happened to be "blessed" with a whole team of patient
mentors who helped me learn what I needed and steered me away from blind
alleys.
Positive payback is a term worth thinking about - a lot. Direct
financial payback, of course, is always satisfying - but payback can
take many forms, and it's possible to aim for multiple paybacks (they're
not necessarily mutually exclusive) and so /along with/ financial
payback it may be possible to also have social and environmental paybacks.
I was updating the web page in my sig last week (feeling pleased that
those panels had already paid for themselves) when it occurred to me to
do another calculation: over the life of those panels, even if there is
_no_ change to the price of propane, the savings they produce will
exceed the cost of the building in which they're installed!
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
On 2/13/10 5:01 PM, Robert Bonomi wrote:
>>
>> Besides, I'm running Windows XP& 7 on my Mac.... just for giggles.
>>
>> Every night, when I shut down the Leopard asks for an enema. :-)
>>
>
> Is that a deliberately catty remark?
>
>
Boooooooo!
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 2/13/2010 9:11 PM, Robert Bonomi wrote:
> In article<[email protected]>,
> Morris Dovey<[email protected]> wrote:
>> On 2/13/2010 10:50 AM, Robatoy wrote:
>>
>>> If some guy invented a free source of energy which would put the oil
>>> companies out of business, he'd be dead, branded a kook, get bought,
>>> jailed on a trumped up charge, shipped to Gitmo...that is IF the oil
>>> companies had some clout in congress.
>>
>> Silly, it's common knowledge that you can't get energy for free...
>>
>> :-D
>
> Are you sure about that?? _Politicians_ seem to be a never-ending source
> of hot air.<<grin>>
Umm - I'm not sure about Canada, but down here that hot air comes with a
very large pricetag!
> I'd also be tempted to offer up a successful perpetual motion machine -- the
> design for which was based on a woman's mouth. *snicker*
Free, eh? Prudence dictates that I say no more...
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
On 2/15/2010 2:21 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 09:44:16 -0800 (PST), the infamous Robatoy
> <[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>> Sooo, "O Wise One" what is helping to keep my shop all nice and
>> toasty? Huh? Huh?
>>
>> <G>
>
> 5 grand worth of imported (from DeSoto, Iowa) solar panels, maybe?
Don't I wish! Reduce that by half - twice - to get in the ballpark. :)
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
Larry Jaques wrote:
...
> Yes, but since raw ore transformed into fuel is a few dollars cheaper
> than reprocessing, it is being used instead of reprocessing. We'd have
> a lot less high-level waste if we reprocessed, as most of the world is
> doing.
...
Actually, there's very little commercial nuclear fuel being reprocessed
anywhere at the moment anywhere in the world not just the US.
The difference is it is virtually all economics elsewhere while it's the
remnants of the Carter edict against it in the US (although it's highly
likely it would have followed the path of the rest of the world as not
continuing even if started owing to economics here as well).
There really wouldn't be any significant less HLW except in that it
might consume less physical volume as most of the highly radioactive
components are the byproducts not the retrieved fuel.
The prime reason against it any time _real_soon_now_ is the volume of
HEU available to be blended down from the agreement w/ Russia on
dismantling a sizable fraction of their warheads and returning the HEU
to the US as LEU. With the stagnant demand for commercial fuel over the
last 40 years owing to no growth in installed capacity and this already
processed material there's actually considerable disincentive to
reprocess spent fuel at the present.
One use that's never been made use of in any extent is the spent fuel
waste heat that is fairly significant for a while after discharge. Like
other sources of lower-grade energy, it's never been sufficiently
cost-effective to bother with even though there may be as much as 10% of
full power output in a spent fuel bundle at discharge which for a
typical PWR would be about 500 kW/bundle initially. If had a
third-reactor discharge per fuel cycle that would be somewhere in the
neighborhood of 80 MWt. That could be quite a lot of process or space
heating.
--
On 2/15/2010 11:31 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> Oh, I thought you had to have mass quantities of solar in the
> blizzardy GWN.
Not until you begin to approach either the Arctic or Antarctic Circle.
In the Temperate Zones there's a trade-off between insulation and solar
panel area. Simply put: heat that you don't lose doesn't need to be
replaced.
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
On Mon, 15 Feb 2010 14:40:58 -0600, the infamous Morris Dovey
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>On 2/15/2010 2:21 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 09:44:16 -0800 (PST), the infamous Robatoy
>> <[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>
>>> Sooo, "O Wise One" what is helping to keep my shop all nice and
>>> toasty? Huh? Huh?
>>>
>>> <G>
>>
>> 5 grand worth of imported (from DeSoto, Iowa) solar panels, maybe?
>
>Don't I wish! Reduce that by half - twice - to get in the ballpark. :)
Oh, I thought you had to have mass quantities of solar in the
blizzardy GWN.
--
It's a great life...once you weaken.
--author James Hogan
On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 09:44:16 -0800 (PST), the infamous Robatoy
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>On Feb 13, 12:19 pm, Morris Dovey <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On 2/13/2010 10:50 AM, Robatoy wrote:
>>
>> > If some guy invented a free source of energy which would put the oil
>> > companies out of business, he'd be dead, branded a kook, get bought,
>> > jailed on a trumped up charge, shipped to Gitmo...that is IF the oil
>> > companies had some clout in congress.
>>
>> Silly, it's common knowledge that you can't get energy for free...
>>
>> :-D
>>
>> --
>> Morris Dovey
>> DeSoto Solar
>> DeSoto, Iowa USAhttp://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
>
>Sooo, "O Wise One" what is helping to keep my shop all nice and
>toasty? Huh? Huh?
>
><G>
5 grand worth of imported (from DeSoto, Iowa) solar panels, maybe?
--
It's a great life...once you weaken.
--author James Hogan
On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 06:03:48 GMT, the infamous [email protected]
(Derek Lyons) scrawled the following:
>"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Regardless of your personal opinion of the man, he has a idea worthy
>>of exploration.
>>
>>http://tinyurl.com/yaa4yeh
>
>It's kinda like he said "look at all the wheat we have, let's figure
>out how to make bread out of it".
>
>Oh, wait, we *already* know how to do that.
Yes, but since raw ore transformed into fuel is a few dollars cheaper
than reprocessing, it is being used instead of reprocessing. We'd have
a lot less high-level waste if we reprocessed, as most of the world is
doing.
--
It's a great life...once you weaken.
--author James Hogan
On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 20:21:30 -0800 (PST), the infamous Robatoy
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>On Feb 12, 10:36 pm, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> "Dave Balderstone" <dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca> wrote in message
>>
>> news:120220102125468331%dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca...
>>
>> > In article <[email protected]>, Lew Hodgett
>> > <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >> Regardless of your personal opinion of the man, he has a idea worthy
>> >> of exploration.
>>
>> >>http://tinyurl.com/yaa4yeh
>>
>> > ""You'd be stunned at the ridiculously low costs of innovation," said
>> > Gates, who received a standing ovation for his remarks."
>>
>> > If he'd actually innovated ANYTHING after Excel for Mac in the 1980's,
>> > I might have some respect for the weasel.
>>
>> > But he didn't, and I don't.
>>
>> Jealous?
>
>Celine Dion is one of the richest performers in the world, and she
>can't sing.
Other dogs that don't hunt: Thompson's WaterSeal, Minwhacked finishes,
Maytag products, Crapsman products, Wagner sprayers.
They simply have "better" advertising.
--
It's a great life...once you weaken.
--author James Hogan
LDosser wrote:
> "HeyBub" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Lew Hodgett wrote:
>>> Regardless of your personal opinion of the man, he has a idea worthy
>>> of exploration.
>>>
>>> http://tinyurl.com/yaa4yeh
>>>
>>
>> Just proves that being rich doesn't make you smart and it doesn't
>> take being wise to make one rich.
>>
>> He's right, but for the wrong reasons. We - or most of the world -
>> can use cheap energy. We already have plenty of clean energy, it's
>> just not cheap. And if energy is more important than vaccines, into which
>> he's poured
>> billions, how about he gives upon inoculations and devote his
>> resources to Uranium?
>>
>
> It wasn't that long ago that Gates was criticized for Not giving away
> money. Now he's being criticized for giving it away to the 'wrong'
> people. Thus proving no matter how much money you have, you just
> can't win.
Fuck 'em.
Many years ago, F. Lee Bailey interviewed H.L. Hunt on PBS. Bailey asked the
"are you still beating your wife question:"
"Mr Hunt, one only has to visit the men of great wealth who have made this
country great with their business endeavors and made it even greater with
their charities. The Rockefellers, Fords, Carnegies, and more. Why is it
you've never seen fit to share your largess with those less fortunate?"
Hunt looked at Bailey as if Bailey had just eaten a bug. "I use my money to
give people something better than a pretty picture to look at in some
museum. I give 'em a job."
'Course Hunt was famous for bringing his lunch to work every day in a paper
bag. The same paper bag.
"Robert Bonomi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article
> <9b93219c-e292-4b9a-aab4-bc3c32640b5c@y33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
> Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
>>On Feb 13, 7:22 pm, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> On 2/13/10 5:01 PM, Robert Bonomi wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> >> Besides, I'm running Windows XP& 7 on my Mac.... just for
>>> >> giggles.
>>>
>>> >> Every night, when I shut down the Leopard asks for an
>>> >> enema. :-)
>>>
>>> > Is that a deliberately catty remark?
>>>
>>> Boooooooo!
>>
>>He went fur broke on that one.
>
> HEY!! I'm not gonna take that lion down.
>
You're lion about that. <Grin>
--
Nonny
ELOQUIDIOT (n) A highly educated, sophisticated,
and articulate person who has absolutely no clue
concerning what they are talking about.
The person is typically a media commentator or politician.
Robert Bonomi wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Morris Dovey <[email protected]> wrote:
>>On 2/13/2010 10:50 AM, Robatoy wrote:
>>
>>> If some guy invented a free source of energy which would put the oil
>>> companies out of business, he'd be dead, branded a kook, get bought,
>>> jailed on a trumped up charge, shipped to Gitmo...that is IF the oil
>>> companies had some clout in congress.
>>
>>Silly, it's common knowledge that you can't get energy for free...
>>
>>:-D
>
> Are you sure about that?? _Politicians_ seem to be a never-ending source
> of hot air. <<grin>>
>
However, politicians are most certainly not free. Some are cheap, but
still not inexpensive.
>
> I'd also be tempted to offer up a successful perpetual motion machine --
> the
> design for which was based on a woman's mouth. *snicker*
--
There is never a situation where having more rounds is a disadvantage
Rob Leatham
In article <[email protected]>,
Morris Dovey <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 2/13/2010 10:50 AM, Robatoy wrote:
>
>> If some guy invented a free source of energy which would put the oil
>> companies out of business, he'd be dead, branded a kook, get bought,
>> jailed on a trumped up charge, shipped to Gitmo...that is IF the oil
>> companies had some clout in congress.
>
>Silly, it's common knowledge that you can't get energy for free...
>
>:-D
Are you sure about that?? _Politicians_ seem to be a never-ending source
of hot air. <<grin>>
I'd also be tempted to offer up a successful perpetual motion machine -- the
design for which was based on a woman's mouth. *snicker*
In article <9b93219c-e292-4b9a-aab4-bc3c32640b5c@y33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Feb 13, 7:22 pm, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On 2/13/10 5:01 PM, Robert Bonomi wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> >> Besides, I'm running Windows XP& 7 on my Mac.... just for giggles.
>>
>> >> Every night, when I shut down the Leopard asks for an enema. :-)
>>
>> > Is that a deliberately catty remark?
>>
>> Boooooooo!
>
>He went fur broke on that one.
HEY!! I'm not gonna take that lion down.