<dan> wrote in message
> Upscale wrote:
> No. I don't really want to add a biscuit to a dado. I wasn't sure if a
> biscuit joint alone for my cabinets would be strong enough.
My mistake. I wouldn't go with biscuit joints for shelving. Dados are
strong, easily fitted and certainly not prone to failure if a cabinet racks
a little, whereas biscuit joints would fail.
I suppose, would you even want to?
<dan> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Can you put a biscuit in a dado or rabbit? Would you even want to?
>
> --
>
Chip Buchholtz wrote:
> "dan" <> wrote:
> : Can you put a biscuit in a dado or rabbit? Would you even want to?
>
> While everyone is giving you grief, I'll attempt to give a straight
> answer. Generally, people use splines in dados and rabbets. There's
> no reason to cut a long straight groove and put a short, round thing
> in it. Think of a spline as a long, shallow rectangular biscuit cut
> to fit a dado or rabbet.
>
> A related joint is a floating tenon joint, which you can think of as a
> rectangular biscuit, although it's usually deeper and narrower than a
> biscuit. Also called a loose tenon joint.
>
> http://www.binkyswoodworking.com/SplinedEdgeJointTip.htm
>
> http://www.workbenchmagazine.com/main/wb282-skillbld01.html
>
> See also:
> Mortise & Tenon
> Beadlock
> Festool Domino
>
> --- Chip
Thanks! I didn't think you could or would want to, but I'm just getting
into biscuit joinery and thought I'd ask anyway.
--
mac davis wrote:
> On 01 Jun 2008 11:32:45 GMT, "dan" <> wrote:
>
> > Thanks! I didn't think you could or would want to, but I'm just
> > getting into biscuit joinery and thought I'd ask anyway.
>
> Been there, done that...
> When I first got into biscuits, I thought they were fantastic and
> that I'd use a LOT of them..
> Reality sort of set in after a while, and I realized that they were
> great for some things, but with a tight joint and good glue, they
> were over kill in most cases..
>
> I built a few jigs like this one of Ken's,
>
> http://home.comcast.net/~kvaughn65/biscuit_jig.jpg
>
> And they're great for drawers and stuff where you need accurate,
> repeatable slots..
>
>
> mac
>
> Please remove splinters before emailing
The reason I ask is that I'm building some shop cabinets and right now
for my template cabinet I'm using rabbet ends and a dado center
support. This is taking a considerable amount of time to do cutting the
rabbets and dado with a router. I plan to build between 10-15 of these.
I was thinking biscuits could reduce my time, but I don't want to do
that at the expense of strength (normal usage shop cabinets).
--
Nova wrote:
> dan wrote:
>
> > The reason I ask is that I'm building some shop cabinets and right
> > now for my template cabinet I'm using rabbet ends and a dado center
> > support. This is taking a considerable amount of time to do cutting
> > the rabbets and dado with a router. I plan to build between 10-15
> > of these. I was thinking biscuits could reduce my time, but I
> > don't want to do that at the expense of strength (normal usage shop
> > cabinets).
> >
>
> It sounds like a reason to buy a good dado blade for your table saw.
I have a good dado blade for my table saw. Weilding an 84" X 24" piece
of plywood to make accurate dados is a PITA.
--
Upscale wrote:
>
> <dan> wrote in message
> > The reason I ask is that I'm building some shop cabinets and right
> > now for my template cabinet I'm using rabbet ends and a dado center
> > support. This is taking a considerable amount of time to do cutting
> > the rabbets and dado with a router. I plan to build between 10-15
> > of these. I was thinking biscuits could reduce my time, but I
> > don't want to do that at the expense of strength (normal usage shop
> > cabinets).
>
> Isn't there going to be a problem getting the biscuit joiner flush
> against the bottom of your dados? Nevertheless, gluing with your
> dados should be sufficient. A properly glued up joint is stronger
> than the wood itself. You're wasting your time for something that
> just isn't necessary.
No. I don't really want to add a biscuit to a dado. I wasn't sure if a
biscuit joint alone for my cabinets would be strong enough.
--
Swingman wrote:
>
> <dan> wrote
>
> > No. I don't really want to add a biscuit to a dado. I wasn't sure
> > if a biscuit joint alone for my cabinets would be strong enough.
>
> Providing your cabinets have an attached back panel, the biggest
> issue with biscuits "being strong enough" may be concerns about
> inherent strength of a butt joint/biscuit jointing the shelves to the
> end panels if the shelves are to carry heavy loads.
I do plan on 1/2" or 3/4" back panel. Aside from a permanant center
shelf (for strength) I planned to add a few sliding shelves and
adjustable shelves.
>
> A simple method that may alleviate your concerns, and provide a good
> deal of support, is to use both biscuits to reinforce the butt joint,
> and "ledger strips", attached to the end panels and under each shelf
> end, to add additional support to the shelves.
>
> This is a very common practice/method of affixing shelving to utility
> cabinets quickly and easily, and should provide all the strength you
> need.
--
B A R R Y wrote:
> On Mon, 02 Jun 2008 14:10:31 -0600, Chris Friesen
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>I build a roll-around cabinet for my "benchtop" 16-speed drill press to
>>sit on. The drill press weighs a lot. The cabinet and three drawers
>>are all made of 3/4" MDF using butt joints and biscuits. The cabinet
>>top sits on the sides, which in turn sit on the base.
>>
>>I made it as an experiment to see how it would hold up, and so far a
>>year later it's as solid as ever.
> And the pictures are where? <G>
Ah heck...see "biscuit and butt joint drill press cabinet" on abpw.
Chris
Larry Kraus wrote:
> "dan" <> wrote:
>
> >>
> >> It sounds like a reason to buy a good dado blade for your table
> saw.
> >
> > I have a good dado blade for my table saw. Weilding an 84" X 24"
> > piece of plywood to make accurate dados is a PITA.
>
> It sounds like a reason to buy a good RAS for your shop.
>
> Every good project deserves a new tool.
What's a RAS?
--
Didn't Norm just do that on a recent kitchen cabinet series? Faceframes
were biscuit jointed into a groove on the front of the cabinets sides.
<dan> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Can you put a biscuit in a dado or rabbit? Would you even want to?
>
> --
>
On May 31, 2:35 pm, "dan" <> wrote:
> Can you put a biscuit in a dado or rabbit? Would you even want to?
>
> --
none of the biscuit jointers I've used could cut the slot in the
bottom of a dado. in a rabbet you might be able to get in there with
most of the shoe hanging over the edge. I can see how adding a biscuit
to a dado or rabbet might make a strong joint, but seems more hassle
than it's worth to me.
On May 31, 9:33=A0pm, Woodie <[email protected]> wrote:
> dan wrote:
> > Can you put a biscuit in a dado or rabbit? Would you even want to?
>
> My pet rabbit ate a biscuit one time. So he put it in himself. I
> wouldn't have done it to him.
GOT to run the thing through the plannar first.
dan wrote:
> The reason I ask is that I'm building some shop cabinets and right now
> for my template cabinet I'm using rabbet ends and a dado center
> support. This is taking a considerable amount of time to do cutting the
> rabbets and dado with a router. I plan to build between 10-15 of these.
> I was thinking biscuits could reduce my time, but I don't want to do
> that at the expense of strength (normal usage shop cabinets).
>
It sounds like a reason to buy a good dado blade for your table saw.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]
[email protected] wrote:
> On May 31, 2:35 pm, "dan" <> wrote:
>> Can you put a biscuit in a dado or rabbit? Would you even want to?
>>
>> --
>
> none of the biscuit jointers I've used could cut the slot in the
> bottom of a dado. in a rabbet you might be able to get in there with
> most of the shoe hanging over the edge. I can see how adding a biscuit
> to a dado or rabbet might make a strong joint, but seems more hassle
> than it's worth to me.
I suspect that if you really need the wood version of cordon bleu, you
could cut a mortise in the bottom of the dado. Cut away part of the
tongue in the other piece, and then cut an equivalent mortise into that
piece. If you made the mortise the narrow width of the biscuit and the
depth in each piece half the length of the biscuit, you could then place
the biscuit into the mortise when you joint the pieces.
With the biscuits length perpendicular to the edge of the piece it could
add a fair amount of strength. This would be like the Egyptian method
of cutting biscuits in their 3000 year old sarcophagi.
<dan> wrote
> No. I don't really want to add a biscuit to a dado. I wasn't sure if a
> biscuit joint alone for my cabinets would be strong enough.
Providing your cabinets have an attached back panel, the biggest issue with
biscuits "being strong enough" may be concerns about inherent strength of a
butt joint/biscuit jointing the shelves to the end panels if the shelves are
to carry heavy loads.
A simple method that may alleviate your concerns, and provide a good deal of
support, is to use both biscuits to reinforce the butt joint, and "ledger
strips", attached to the end panels and under each shelf end, to add
additional support to the shelves.
This is a very common practice/method of affixing shelving to utility
cabinets quickly and easily, and should provide all the strength you need.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 5/14/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
<dan> wrote in message
> The reason I ask is that I'm building some shop cabinets and right now
> for my template cabinet I'm using rabbet ends and a dado center
> support. This is taking a considerable amount of time to do cutting the
> rabbets and dado with a router. I plan to build between 10-15 of these.
> I was thinking biscuits could reduce my time, but I don't want to do
> that at the expense of strength (normal usage shop cabinets).
Isn't there going to be a problem getting the biscuit joiner flush against
the bottom of your dados? Nevertheless, gluing with your dados should be
sufficient. A properly glued up joint is stronger than the wood itself.
You're wasting your time for something that just isn't necessary.
On 01 Jun 2008 17:20:02 GMT, "dan" <> wrote:
>The reason I ask is that I'm building some shop cabinets and right now
>for my template cabinet I'm using rabbet ends and a dado center
>support. This is taking a considerable amount of time to do cutting the
>rabbets and dado with a router. I plan to build between 10-15 of these.
>I was thinking biscuits could reduce my time, but I don't want to do
>that at the expense of strength (normal usage shop cabinets).
Ok.. If I'm understanding you, you aren't really asking about ADDING a biscuit
to a dodo, but replacing it with biscuits??
I'm not a "fine" woodworker, especially for things in my shop.. Guys like Ken
Vaughn build jigs that are nicer than most of the furniture in my house, and I
envy that attention to detail, I think..
For my shop(s) I do butt joints with biscuits and they seem to work and hold up
fine..
Most have backs for added rigidity and are wall mounted, so for my use, I don't
see a need for fancier joinery..
Most are pretty much plywood boxes with shelves and/or doors, no carcass
involved..
The dado center support is probably a good idea, but might be ok with a butt
joint and biscuits..
It would seem that a dado would be pretty easy and could be done with either saw
or router..
OTOH, I'm pretty much a turner and NOT good at flat work, so YMWV
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing
<dan> wrote in message
> Chip Buchholtz wrote:
>
> > "dan" <> wrote:
> > : Can you put a biscuit in a dado or rabbit? Would you even want to?
> >
> > While everyone is giving you grief, I'll attempt to give a straight
> > answer. Generally, people use splines in dados and rabbets. There's
> > no reason to cut a long straight groove and put a short, round thing
> > in it. Think of a spline as a long, shallow rectangular biscuit cut
> > to fit a dado or rabbet.
> >
> > A related joint is a floating tenon joint, which you can think of as a
> > rectangular biscuit, although it's usually deeper and narrower than a
> > biscuit. Also called a loose tenon joint.
> >
> > http://www.binkyswoodworking.com/SplinedEdgeJointTip.htm
> >
> > http://www.workbenchmagazine.com/main/wb282-skillbld01.html
> >
> > See also:
> > Mortise & Tenon
> > Beadlock
> > Festool Domino
> >
> > --- Chip
>
> Thanks! I didn't think you could or would want to, but I'm just getting
> into biscuit joinery and thought I'd ask anyway.
To address your original question and clarify the above, in joinery,
biscuits are used to reinforce butt and miter joints and would not
traditionally be used in "housing joints" like rabbet, or in dadoes.
A spline, in traditional joinery, is actually related to the "tongue and
groove" joint and is considered a "loose tongue".
A "loose" or "floating" tenon is an element of "mortise and tenon" joinery.
If you get a chance, grab a copy of Day and Jackson's "Good Wood Joints", a
handy reference on the traditional uses of the many types of woodworking
joints, their terminology, and the regional differences in same.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 5/14/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
"dan" <> wrote:
>>
>> It sounds like a reason to buy a good dado blade for your table saw.
>
>I have a good dado blade for my table saw. Weilding an 84" X 24" piece
>of plywood to make accurate dados is a PITA.
It sounds like a reason to buy a good RAS for your shop.
Every good project deserves a new tool.
Take a peek at ABWP
B A R R Y wrote:
> On Mon, 02 Jun 2008 14:10:31 -0600, Chris Friesen
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>I build a roll-around cabinet for my "benchtop" 16-speed drill press to
>>sit on. The drill press weighs a lot. The cabinet and three drawers
>>are all made of 3/4" MDF using butt joints and biscuits. The cabinet
>>top sits on the sides, which in turn sit on the base.
>>
>>I made it as an experiment to see how it would hold up, and so far a
>>year later it's as solid as ever.
>>
>>Chris
>
>
>
> And the pictures are where? <G>
>
> ---------------------------------------------
> ** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
> ---------------------------------------------
On Mon, 02 Jun 2008 14:10:31 -0600, Chris Friesen
<[email protected]> wrote:
>I build a roll-around cabinet for my "benchtop" 16-speed drill press to
>sit on. The drill press weighs a lot. The cabinet and three drawers
>are all made of 3/4" MDF using butt joints and biscuits. The cabinet
>top sits on the sides, which in turn sit on the base.
>
>I made it as an experiment to see how it would hold up, and so far a
>year later it's as solid as ever.
>
>Chris
And the pictures are where? <G>
---------------------------------------------
** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------
"dan" <> wrote:
: Can you put a biscuit in a dado or rabbit? Would you even want to?
While everyone is giving you grief, I'll attempt to give a straight
answer. Generally, people use splines in dados and rabbets. There's
no reason to cut a long straight groove and put a short, round thing
in it. Think of a spline as a long, shallow rectangular biscuit cut
to fit a dado or rabbet.
A related joint is a floating tenon joint, which you can think of as a
rectangular biscuit, although it's usually deeper and narrower than a
biscuit. Also called a loose tenon joint.
http://www.binkyswoodworking.com/SplinedEdgeJointTip.htm
http://www.workbenchmagazine.com/main/wb282-skillbld01.html
See also:
Mortise & Tenon
Beadlock
Festool Domino
--- Chip
On Sun, 1 Jun 2008 13:05:51 -0500, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Tom Watson, one of the most experienced cabinetmakers on this forum,
>recently posted an excellent treatise/method of plywood top/bottom/end
>panel, and intermediate shelf joinery in a recent thread with the subject
>"Dado width".
>
>Do yourself a favor and take a look at it. He also posted pictures on APBW
Ditto that.
I've done lots of work and saved Tom's description and pictures.
---------------------------------------------
** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------
On 01 Jun 2008 11:32:45 GMT, "dan" <> wrote:
>Thanks! I didn't think you could or would want to, but I'm just getting
>into biscuit joinery and thought I'd ask anyway.
Been there, done that...
When I first got into biscuits, I thought they were fantastic and that I'd use a
LOT of them..
Reality sort of set in after a while, and I realized that they were great for
some things, but with a tight joint and good glue, they were over kill in most
cases..
I built a few jigs like this one of Ken's,
http://home.comcast.net/~kvaughn65/biscuit_jig.jpg
And they're great for drawers and stuff where you need accurate, repeatable
slots..
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing
<dan> wrote in message
>
> What's a RAS?
>
Radial Arm Saw.
They used to be a mainstay of buiders and woodworkers. But has fallen on
hard times with many people now considering them to be some kind of monster
consuming poor innocents everywhere. Many people like the newer and smaller
sliding compound miter saw.
dan wrote:
> No. I don't really want to add a biscuit to a dado. I wasn't sure if a
> biscuit joint alone for my cabinets would be strong enough.
Almost certainly yes.
I build a roll-around cabinet for my "benchtop" 16-speed drill press to
sit on. The drill press weighs a lot. The cabinet and three drawers
are all made of 3/4" MDF using butt joints and biscuits. The cabinet
top sits on the sides, which in turn sit on the base.
I made it as an experiment to see how it would hold up, and so far a
year later it's as solid as ever.
Chris
<dan> wrote
> The reason I ask is that I'm building some shop cabinets and right now
> for my template cabinet I'm using rabbet ends and a dado center
> support. This is taking a considerable amount of time to do cutting the
> rabbets and dado with a router. I plan to build between 10-15 of these.
> I was thinking biscuits could reduce my time, but I don't want to do
> that at the expense of strength (normal usage shop cabinets).
Tom Watson, one of the most experienced cabinetmakers on this forum,
recently posted an excellent treatise/method of plywood top/bottom/end
panel, and intermediate shelf joinery in a recent thread with the subject
"Dado width".
Do yourself a favor and take a look at it. He also posted pictures on APBW
To cut back on your time, using Tom's or any other method, consider "batch"
cutting your dados for your tops, bottoms and shelves all at one time in a
wider sheet of plywood, then rip these to the project width of the end
panels.
Besides the time savings, a big plus in doing it this way is that your
center shelves will be guaranteed level (providing you take pains in
correctly setting up for the center dado cut using a single top or bottom
edge as a "reference" edge).
On the subject of biscuits for your application ... they are basically
intended for reinforcing "butt joints", so, while you may sacrifice a bit of
strength when compared to a housed joint, for your application biscuit
joinery may well be quite sufficient.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 5/14/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
dan wrote:
> Can you put a biscuit in a dado or rabbit? Would you even want to?
>
I don't know about a dado but it's a sure thing for a rabbit. See:
http://www.petdiscounters.com/c303/Rabbit-Biscuit-Pearls-p4587.html
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]