A recent WoodCraft flier revealed that the Jet bandsaw I've been lusting
after is made in Taiwan. I've got this "buy American" thing happening,
partly because...well, I'm an American, and because other than cars and
electronics, I'm not convinced that those foreign boys make a decent
product. My BP goes up a bit every time I have to grab a "mm" wrench. So
what's the scoop with Jet? Seems to be a quality tool, but "made in Taiwan"
doesn't fill me with tool-joy. I'm sure I'd be disappointed if I researched
the country of origin for my Delta and Craftsman tools.
Your thoughts on the matter?
O.
Are you normally this naive or just new to all of this. Jet has always been
an import. And you might be surprised how little Delta and Craftsman builds
in the US. Face it, if you think American built dictates quality, that
might be the answer to why American car builders got away for so long
building crap and why it was so easy for the imports to come in and
dominate.
"Oregon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> A recent WoodCraft flier revealed that the Jet bandsaw I've been lusting
> after is made in Taiwan. I've got this "buy American" thing happening,
> partly because...well, I'm an American, and because other than cars and
> electronics, I'm not convinced that those foreign boys make a decent
> product. My BP goes up a bit every time I have to grab a "mm" wrench. So
> what's the scoop with Jet? Seems to be a quality tool, but "made in
Taiwan"
> doesn't fill me with tool-joy. I'm sure I'd be disappointed if I
researched
> the country of origin for my Delta and Craftsman tools.
> Your thoughts on the matter?
> O.
>
>
"Brian Elfert" wrote in message
> "Swingman" writes:
>
> >"Bill McNutt" wrote in message
>
> >>American manufacturers need to find
> >> way to make better tools at a competative price.
>
> >Most that are still in business today do just that ... they take it
overseas
> >to take advantage of the lower cost of the second of the two necessities
for
> >goods production in Eco 101.
>
> You're not an American manufacturer if your stuff is made overseas. You
> are an American importer then.
Agreed ... notice the trend?
Although I am not a Bush basher, and can't swear to it as it may just be
partisan BS, but I recently read somewhere that the Admininistration is
trying to get fast food restaurants re-classifed from "Service" to
"Manufacturing".
With the number of manufacturing jobs being lost to this country, it's not
hard to figure how much better that would be for the statistics.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 2/28/04
I read all these posts and I can only speak for myself. Like you, I'll
usually pay a few more dollars for something "made in the USA". Despite what
the others have said, the quality is almost always at least slightly better.
That doesn't mean there isn;t junk being built right here in our backyard.
JET has a nearly outstanding reputation. I don;t own their tools, but I've
used them. And, like someone said earlier, even Delta machinery is made
mostly overseas.... in Taiwan. So, don;t hold off from buying a Jet tool
just because it's made foreign. But if you're like me and all tools being
equal, I'll buy USA as often as possible.
Larry
--
Americans
[email protected]
"Oregon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> A recent WoodCraft flier revealed that the Jet bandsaw I've been lusting
> after is made in Taiwan. I've got this "buy American" thing happening,
> partly because...well, I'm an American, and because other than cars and
> electronics, I'm not convinced that those foreign boys make a decent
> product. My BP goes up a bit every time I have to grab a "mm" wrench. So
> what's the scoop with Jet? Seems to be a quality tool, but "made in
Taiwan"
> doesn't fill me with tool-joy. I'm sure I'd be disappointed if I
researched
> the country of origin for my Delta and Craftsman tools.
> Your thoughts on the matter?
> O.
>
>
On Thu, 4 Mar 2004 10:09:39 -0600, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Although I am not a Bush basher, and can't swear to it as it may just be
>partisan BS, but I recently read somewhere that the Admininistration is
>trying to get fast food restaurants re-classifed from "Service" to
>"Manufacturing".
I've heard that as well, but couldn't place a source.
Google turned up this:
<http://www.senate.gov/~schumer/SchumerWebsite/pressroom/press_releases/PR02454.html>
Pretty ridiculous, eh? Our government in action.
Barry
Yeah, what he said. I have friends around the world. I have no reason to
deny them a job just because their momma didn't spit them out on American
soil. I want the best value for the price I'm willing to pay. I have lots
of JETS tools and continue to buy them. Obviously I find their value
including quality to be worth the price I'm willing to pay.
--
Larry C in Auburn, WA
"DexAZ" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Like it or not, we ARE in a global economy these days. A cellular phone
> product I service _was_ made in Ft. Worth, then Brazil and now is made in
> China...of course. Products are built where they can be built most
> profitably. These days, that means somewhere with little or no problems
> with unions, noise buffer zones, industrial waste laws and of course no
real
> minimum wages. What we consider "slave wages" per hour here, are more
than
> some folks earn per day or week in other parts of the world. I'm not
saying
> it's right, I'm just saying this is the way things are. Just because an
> item is built outside the US does not mean, necessarily, that it is not
> built well or built right. Most of our TVs are made somewhere in the
> orient. RCA & AMPEX used to built broadcast color TV cameras and video
tape
> machines here. But Sony, JVC, Panasonic and Ikagami built the same items
> with newer features, smaller and less expensively. Would you still be
> holding out for an American RCA or Zenith color set? RCA is built off
shore
> and owned by a French firm, Thompson, if I remember correctly. Not sure
> Zenith even exists. And you can get a darned good color set at Wally
World
> for $129 from some firm I can't even pronounce. I know the folks who used
> to built RCA, Zenith, Motorola/Quasar etc. here are out of work. Not
> because they built a poor product but more likely because Sony, Panasonic
> etc. were able to build a better product & change with the moods of the US
> market (you and me) faster as well as build with cheaper labor. We want
new
> bells and whistles all the time. American manufacturers are not as
willing
> to put those bells and whistles on their products. Motorola's StarTac
> phones for example. They were small, tough and they did the job. They
did
> not, however, offer ringtones, games or video cameras. Moto almost lost
all
> their share of the handset market before they brought out their new line
> with those features. The second and third world seems quite capable of
> building our entertainment systems, cars, trucks, motorcycles, cell phone
> system infrastructure & the handsets, PDAs, hard drives, clothing etc.
etc.
> And doing a first class job of it. If not, why do _we_ buy the stuff? If
> America could build a better mouse trap at a competitive price, why don't
> we? Because we choose to have clean air and water. Because we like to
live
> in America as it is not as it was. Look up some photos of America's
> industrial centers, rail centers and ports during WWII. Do you want to
live
> with _that_ in our water and air? An old neighbor of mine had his entire
> breathing system screwed up. Spend all his life as a fireman and engineer
> on coal and early oil fired railroad locomotives. No anti-pollution
system
> on those bad boys. His lungs did that job for many years. Until they
began
> to fail. I like the clean air we enjoy today. I do not want to spend my
> last few years lugging around an Oxygen bottle. I would also like to
thank
> those from my fathers generation who made the sacrifices, in Europe & the
> South Pacific as well as in our mines, foundries, factories, mills,
> rail/dock/shipyards required to assure the freedom I enjoy today.
>
> I know a couple guys with a boatload of JET products. I'm sure they would
> rather have spend their $$ on something made in the USA but could not find
a
> competitive American made product for the same price. So they bought JET.
> So far, they have been very happy with JET and these guys would really
bitch
> like hell if they thought their investment went for "junk".
>
> As I stated earlier, we live in a global economy...like it or not. We
will
> need to adapt and learn to life with that fact. We tried to isolate
> ourselves from the world before WWII. Turns out that may not have been
such
> a good idea.
>
> If the JET looks like it will do the job for you and is the best product
you
> can find for your $$, then buy it! There are many Americans involved in
> bring it to your door. If you insist on American made...check out
> Shopsmith. I have one and it does a great job. There were a number of SS
> clones built here and off-shore, some time back. Most of those firms died
> off so sometimes a good old American firm CAN compete and win. But then
you
> really don't want a Shopsmith, even though it is built in Dayton, OH, do
> you?
>
> Time for a chill pill
>
> DexAZ
>
> "Oregon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > A recent WoodCraft flier revealed that the Jet bandsaw I've been lusting
> > after is made in Taiwan. I've got this "buy American" thing happening,
> > partly because...well, I'm an American, and because other than cars and
> > electronics, I'm not convinced that those foreign boys make a decent
> > product. My BP goes up a bit every time I have to grab a "mm" wrench.
So
> > what's the scoop with Jet? Seems to be a quality tool, but "made in
> Taiwan"
> > doesn't fill me with tool-joy. I'm sure I'd be disappointed if I
> researched
> > the country of origin for my Delta and Craftsman tools.
> > Your thoughts on the matter?
> > O.
> >
> >
>
>
On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 14:15:39 GMT, Mark <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Those were toys built to last.
Longer than their users.
In 1970, I was five. I got hit in the head by a Tonka truck, and
ended up in the hospital
The rest is history...
Barry
This also applies to Harbor Freight and other trash tool importers.
"B a r r y" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 03 Mar 2004 02:40:01 GMT, "Oregon" <[email protected]> wrote:
<Snip>
> What bothers me about the "Global Economy" are the news sound bites of
> laid-off factory workers in Ohio, North Carolina, etc... complaining
> that the President hasn't created jobs, as they walk into _WAL*MART*!
> <G> We're choosing our own path here.
>
> Barry
----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
Japan Equipment & Tools was, I believe, the original J.E.T.
"Silvan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> AFAIK, JET has *always* been an importer. Am I wrong about that old time
> Wreckers? Seems they came onto the scene with imported copies of Delta
> tools, and they've always been an importer, rather than a manufacturer.
"Swingman" <[email protected]> writes:
>"Bill McNutt" wrote in message
>>American manufacturers need to find
>> way to make better tools at a competative price.
>Most that are still in business today do just that ... they take it overseas
>to take advantage of the lower cost of the second of the two necessities for
>goods production in Eco 101.
You're not an American manufacturer if your stuff is made overseas. You
are an American importer then.
Brian Elfert
"Oregon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> My BP goes up a bit every time I have to grab a "mm" wrench.
Zowie dude - relax. You're heading for an aneurism. Save your strokes for
bigger things - things like Torx!
> So what's the scoop with Jet? Seems to be a quality tool, but "made in
Taiwan"
> doesn't fill me with tool-joy.
Don't think of it as "Taiwan" - think of it as "Formosa".
> I'm sure I'd be disappointed if I researched
> the country of origin for my Delta and Craftsman tools.
> Your thoughts on the matter?
>
I'ma thinking you're kind of inherently disappointable.
Maybe? Huh?
I would prefer to always buy American made products but
that's increasingly difficult now, obviously. I don't
really have anything against an import saw or other tool
but if I can find one made in America that's as good as
the import and isn't significantly more expensive then
I'll buy it. That being said, I couldn't find any saw
for anywhere near the same money as my General Internationl
50-185 LM1 that had the same features or quality.
Regarding the Jet, I wasn't all that impressed with them.
Nice saw, but for the money I liked the GI better. I looked
at four different models of Jet saw from the cheapest
contractor saw to a fully outfitted cabinet saw and all
four had what I would call an unuseable miter gauge. The
pin that the head rotated on was loose in it's hole. You
could tighten the adjustment down as tight as possible but
there was no way tighten the pin in it's hole. All four
were like that. I asked the store manager at one store
and the salesman at another and both had never noticed it
before. Neither had an explanation but the manager guy
did say he'd call Jet about it and get back to me...He
never did and I suspect it's because Jet just shrugged
their shoulders. I strongly considered buying the Jet
hybrid saw from my local dealer but because of the useless
miter gauge and, more importantly, because the dealer
never addressed the issue I'm now the very satisfied owner
of the GI saw. I paid less and overall got a better saw.
Ok, so I haven't tried to deal with GI customer service
but I haven't had too either.
Bruce
Redding, Ca.
Mark wrote:
>> (Yes, I'm still pissed off about the total crap sitting on store shelves
>> wearing the Tonka brand name. Hasbro, you suck, and I don't mean that in
>> a Wreck way.)
> Only damage to the Tonka was the bed side got bent. Axles didn't bend and
> the tires didn't break.
>
> Those were toys built to last.
Yes they were! I have some old Tonka stuff from the '70s myself. The
plastic windshields and cab interiors look worse for wear, but the metal
stuff is still fine. I have a couple of pumper trucks with little rubber
push bulb things to shoot water out a hose. They still work.
I watched Tonka's downfall with my son. Around '94, we bought a dump truck
and a back hoe. He eventually broke the back hoe, after digging lots of
real rocky dirt with the thing for hours on end. In around '97 we bought
him another one. The whole arm and bucket on the thing were PLASTIC. It
lasted a couple of months.
The first one was made in America. The second one in China. What's worse,
they started slapping Tonka logos on all kinds of Chinese low budget crap.
The kind of cheap little car stuff you'd buy for your kid to give away at a
birthday party. Nothing even Tonkaesque about them.
I hate Hasbro. Look around. They're the Microsoft of the toy world. They
own Parker Bros., Milton Bradley, ad nauseum. You can tell when they've
taken over someone new because you go to buy a new copy of a favorite old
game, and now it's new and incredibly crappy for twice the price.
Sorry. Rant off. I know this is totally off-topic, unless you go so far as
to mention that they do still sell ultra premium Monopoly sets with wooden
houses. (OBWWR... wooden houses, see...)
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
10 years ago, the gray haired American educated and born internist finished
my father's physical exam. The young Iranian med student at his side, asked
if it would be ok if he palpated my father's abdomen. That young foreigner
discovered an aortic aneurism - a ticking time bomb for sure death which the
internist had missed. The repair surgery was successful and I have had a
father to coach and support me through the most tumultuous years of my
career.
Quality can be found in all nations. I buy lots of Jet.
"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I remember a patient who didn't want a particular doctor because he was of
> Indian extraction... no matter that he'd lived in this country since he
was four
> years old. Turns out the patient was a garbageman. His mama must be
proud of
> *him*.
In article <[email protected]>, "Oregon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>A recent WoodCraft flier revealed that the Jet bandsaw I've been lusting
>after is made in Taiwan. I've got this "buy American" thing happening,
>partly because...well, I'm an American, and because other than cars and
>electronics, I'm not convinced that those foreign boys make a decent
>product. My BP goes up a bit every time I have to grab a "mm" wrench. So
>what's the scoop with Jet? Seems to be a quality tool, but "made in Taiwan"
>doesn't fill me with tool-joy. I'm sure I'd be disappointed if I researched
>the country of origin for my Delta and Craftsman tools.
>Your thoughts on the matter?
"Made in Taiwan" is a lot better than "Made in China". At least the capitalist
economy in Taiwan provides a better incentive for quality than does China's
communist system.
Most of my power tools were made in Taiwan. I have a JET table saw and
benchtop mortiser, and don't see any quality problems with either one. I
wouldn't hesitate to buy JET, or other Taiwan-made tools, again.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
For a copy of my TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter,
send email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com
"B a r r y" wrote in message
> On Thu, 4 Mar 2004 10:09:39 -0600, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Although I am not a Bush basher, and can't swear to it as it may just be
> >partisan BS, but I recently read somewhere that the Admininistration is
> >trying to get fast food restaurants re-classifed from "Service" to
> >"Manufacturing".
>
> I've heard that as well, but couldn't place a source.
>
> Google turned up this:
>
<http://www.senate.gov/~schumer/SchumerWebsite/pressroom/press_releases/PR02
454.html>
>
> Pretty ridiculous, eh? Our government in action.
Especially love the following:
"If fast food is classified as manufacturing, perhaps the neighborhood
lemonade stand should be considered part of the military-industrial
complex,"
yeah!! ... now you're really fooling us! LOL.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 2/28/04
BTW, when did you change your name?
Swingman responods:
>> >Although I am not a Bush basher, and can't swear to it as it may just be
>> >partisan BS, but I recently read somewhere that the Admininistration is
>> >trying to get fast food restaurants re-classifed from "Service" to
>> >"Manufacturing".
>>
>> I've heard that as well, but couldn't place a source.
>>
>> Google turned up this:
>>
><http://www.senate.gov/~schumer/SchumerWebsite/pressroom/press_releases/PR02
>454.html>
>>
>> Pretty ridiculous, eh? Our government in action.
>
>Especially love the following:
>
>"If fast food is classified as manufacturing, perhaps the neighborhood
>lemonade stand should be considered part of the military-industrial
>complex,"
>
It's funny, but the thought processes that can formulate that sort of nonsense
should have been left to Monty Python. As political thought, it is scary.
My wife had heard this somewhere and I didn't believe it. But, then, I'm the
guy who once told his first set of in-laws that I didn't believe Spiro Agnew
had sold out as Governor of Maryland...my rationale was simple. 85K wasn't
enough for a guy in his position. But, of course, it was.
Charlie Self
"There is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured with what is right in
America." William J. Clinton
http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html
"Oregon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> A recent WoodCraft flier revealed that the Jet bandsaw I've been lusting
> after is made in Taiwan. I've got this "buy American" thing happening,
> partly because...well, I'm an American, and because other than cars and
> electronics, I'm not convinced that those foreign boys make a decent
> product.
> Your thoughts on the matter?
My thoughts? Want an honest answer or one that will make you feel good?
Anyone that thinks you can't get quality from overseas has their head up
their butt.
FWIW, if it was still 1954, I might agree with you.
Ed
England is officially metric.
"ddinc" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> <<<My BP goes up a bit every time I have to grab a "mm" wrench.>>
>
> The whole world is metric except US and England.
>
> Quick, divide 1.301mm by 5.
>
> Now try 4 ft. 3 in and 7/32"
>
> The world does change....
>
> For the better.
>
>
Yes, they have always been an importer. Long before they got much into
woodworking, they had a line of imported metalworking machinery. Some models
of their bandsaws weren't bad but most were junk. Their milling machines
were garbage, through and through.
"Silvan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> AFAIK, JET has *always* been an importer. Am I wrong about that old time
> Wreckers? Seems they came onto the scene with imported copies of Delta
> tools, and they've always been an importer, rather than a manufacturer.
I work for one of the big two (was big three) so I understand the "Buy
American" thing.
Unfortunately, everybody's moving overseas and you really have to look hard
to find something made in the US. I bought a Delta Planer and Drill press,
and after unpacking it, found that the DP is made in China and the planer is
made in Taiwan. China is still suspect in my book, but my experience is
that stuff out of Taiwan is consistently good quality. Separately, I bought
a Fuji bicycle, since it's a old, old brand out of Japan. Suprise, it's
made in Taiwan too.
BTW, as an engineer, Imperial units (inches) really suck, and MY bp goes up
every time I have to convert from slugs or pounds to kilograms and
newtons.....
Y
I work for one of the big two (was big three) but it's no
"Oregon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> A recent WoodCraft flier revealed that the Jet bandsaw I've been lusting
> after is made in Taiwan. I've got this "buy American" thing happening,
> partly because...well, I'm an American, and because other than cars and
> electronics, I'm not convinced that those foreign boys make a decent
> product. My BP goes up a bit every time I have to grab a "mm" wrench. So
> what's the scoop with Jet? Seems to be a quality tool, but "made in
Taiwan"
> doesn't fill me with tool-joy. I'm sure I'd be disappointed if I
researched
> the country of origin for my Delta and Craftsman tools.
> Your thoughts on the matter?
> O.
>
>
you need to let go of your prejudices and buy something on it's merits.
I've got a Powermatic BS that is fantastic. Guess where it is made.
If you are dying and the emergency room doctor happens to be a
foreigner, will you tell him to sit this one out while you bleed to
death? Use your head!
and don't bitch to me; you ASKED for thoughts
dave
Oregon wrote:
> A recent WoodCraft flier revealed that the Jet bandsaw I've been lusting
> after is made in Taiwan. I've got this "buy American" thing happening,
> partly because...well, I'm an American, and because other than cars and
> electronics, I'm not convinced that those foreign boys make a decent
> product. My BP goes up a bit every time I have to grab a "mm" wrench. So
> what's the scoop with Jet? Seems to be a quality tool, but "made in Taiwan"
> doesn't fill me with tool-joy. I'm sure I'd be disappointed if I researched
> the country of origin for my Delta and Craftsman tools.
> Your thoughts on the matter?
> O.
>
>
Bay Area Dave wrote:
> you need to let go of your prejudices and buy something on it's merits.
> I've got a Powermatic BS that is fantastic. Guess where it is made.
> If you are dying and the emergency room doctor happens to be a
> foreigner, will you tell him to sit this one out while you bleed to
> death? Use your head!
I remember a patient who didn't want a particular doctor because he was of
Indian extraction... no matter that he'd lived in this country since he was four
years old. Turns out the patient was a garbageman. His mama must be proud of
*him*.
--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
[email protected]
http://www.mortimerschnerd.com
"Mike in Mystic" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> My garbageman drives a fully restored '61 corvette. He lives about 3
blocks
> from where I do. As you say, nothing wrong with being a garbageman.
>
> Mike
>
>
Too bad he can not afford a new one! ;-)
Greg
Mortimer Schnerd writes:
>
>I remember a patient who didn't want a particular doctor because he was of
>Indian extraction... no matter that he'd lived in this country since he was
>four
>years old. Turns out the patient was a garbageman. His mama must be proud
>of
>*him*.
Reminds me of the college professor in NYC who sneered at the garbage men's
strike back in the '60s. I asked him how much of a problem it would create if
all the teachers in the city struck for 6 weeks. There isn't a damned thing
wrong with being a garbage man. What's wrong with your guy is not his job.
Charlie Self
"There is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured with what is right in
America." William J. Clinton
http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html
My garbageman drives a fully restored '61 corvette. He lives about 3 blocks
from where I do. As you say, nothing wrong with being a garbageman.
Mike
"Charlie Self" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Mortimer Schnerd writes:
>
> >
> >I remember a patient who didn't want a particular doctor because he was
of
> >Indian extraction... no matter that he'd lived in this country since he
was
> >four
> >years old. Turns out the patient was a garbageman. His mama must be
proud
> >of
> >*him*.
>
> Reminds me of the college professor in NYC who sneered at the garbage
men's
> strike back in the '60s. I asked him how much of a problem it would create
if
> all the teachers in the city struck for 6 weeks. There isn't a damned
thing
> wrong with being a garbage man. What's wrong with your guy is not his job.
>
> Charlie Self
> "There is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured with what is
right in
> America." William J. Clinton
>
> http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html
>
> A fellow who wipes asses for a living doesn't think poorly of garbagemen's
> contributions to society in general. OTOH, this fellow had no business
looking
> down his nose at the doctor because he was a little darker than others.
The doc
> was raised and educated in Ohio. It was the blatant racism that offended
me.
> The patient was openly abusive of any of the help who wasn't white. My
attitude
> was, if he doesn't want their help, he doesn't need mine. Whenever he
wanted
> something, I took my time finding him a white coworker.
>
>
>
> --
> Mortimer Schnerd, RN
>
Does he carry his prejudice to the point of refusing himself certain
medications, treatments & procedures? He'd probably be surprised that not
all of the medical wonders we enjoy today were invented, discovered or
developed by white, English speaking Christians in the USA. It would be
interesting to find out what treatments/procedures/medications he needed to
regain his health and what the religious, cultural etc. background of those
who brought that treatment etc. to modern medicine was. If he knew, he
would probably limit his own treatments to a nice big enema. (I _hope_
those were invented by white Europeans at least) But as that might be
administered by a Filipino nurse...well, I guess that is out too.
So...there he is, just one more bigot, full of shiRt!
DexAZ
Charlie Self wrote:
>
> Reminds me of the college professor in NYC who sneered at the garbage men's
> strike back in the '60s. I asked him how much of a problem it would create if
> all the teachers in the city struck for 6 weeks. There isn't a damned thing
> wrong with being a garbage man. What's wrong with your guy is not his job.
A fellow who wipes asses for a living doesn't think poorly of garbagemen's
contributions to society in general. OTOH, this fellow had no business looking
down his nose at the doctor because he was a little darker than others. The doc
was raised and educated in Ohio. It was the blatant racism that offended me.
The patient was openly abusive of any of the help who wasn't white. My attitude
was, if he doesn't want their help, he doesn't need mine. Whenever he wanted
something, I took my time finding him a white coworker.
--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
[email protected]
http://www.mortimerschnerd.com
Mortimer Schnerd notes:
>
>A fellow who wipes asses for a living doesn't think poorly of garbagemen's
>contributions to society in general. OTOH, this fellow had no business
>looking
>down his nose at the doctor because he was a little darker than others. The
>doc
>was raised and educated in Ohio. It was the blatant racism that offended me.
>The patient was openly abusive of any of the help who wasn't white. My
>attitude
>was, if he doesn't want their help, he doesn't need mine. Whenever he wanted
>something, I took my time finding him a white coworker.
What I said: his problem is not his job. His problem is that he is bigoted
fool.
Charlie Self
"There is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured with what is right in
America." William J. Clinton
http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html
Yitah Wu wrote:
> I work for one of the big two (was big three) so I understand the "Buy
> American" thing.
>
> Unfortunately, everybody's moving overseas and you really have to look hard
> to find something made in the US. I bought a Delta Planer and Drill press,
> and after unpacking it, found that the DP is made in China and the planer is
> made in Taiwan. China is still suspect in my book, but my experience is
> that stuff out of Taiwan is consistently good quality. Separately, I bought
> a Fuji bicycle, since it's a old, old brand out of Japan. Suprise, it's
> made in Taiwan too.
>
The last bikes FUJI actually made in Japan were produced around 1987 or
1988 (give or take a year). The mid 1980's were the heyday for Japanese
made bikes - Fuji and Miyata come to mind. In 1986, IMO, the absolute
best year for Japanese bikes sold in this country, the dollar was at an
alltime high against the Yen, so importing Japanese goods to America
provided enormous values for American consumers. The currency exchange
rates starting reversing direction after 1986, and ultimately, Japanese
manufactures starting contracting with Tiawan to produce their designs.
Ultimately, Tiawan bikes got to be pretty good, but never as good as
their counterparts from Japan. Miyata held on longer than Fuji as a
purely Japanese bike supplier, but even they succumbed before 1990.
Panasonic and Bridgestone were the other major Japanese bike
manufacturers - mostly producing bikes under contract for marketing
companies. At one time, I think Bridgestone was the largest.
Now, China is the country or origin for many mid-level bikes sold in
this country. They produce equipment more cost-efficiently than Tiawan,
so production moved there -- probably not as good as Tiawan, but I'm
only guessing on that score.
Rick
On Wed, 03 Mar 2004 02:40:01 GMT, "Oregon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Your thoughts on the matter?
I have hand and power tools from the USA, Canada (more and more <G>),
Taiwan, England, Thailand, Mexico, and China, The American, Canadian,
and Taiwan made power tools are excellent, if you spend decent money.
Anything that is subjected to high speeds, high loads, or stress
that's made in China is not allowed in my shop, for safety reasons. I
try to avoid most stuff from China, unless I'm pretty sure it's not
made by slave labor. There are some Chinese factories that treat
people decently, but many do not.
<http://www.nlcnet.org/>
My better Delta stuff is USA made. However, I still can't use my band
saw, as my fellow American who sealed the box, failed to notice that
the cabinet top plate and motor access door weren't in said box. <G>
I've noticed that more and more of my tool choices seem to come from
General and Veritas, with much of it made in Canada.
What bothers me about the "Global Economy" are the news sound bites of
laid-off factory workers in Ohio, North Carolina, etc... complaining
that the President hasn't created jobs, as they walk into _WAL*MART*!
<G> We're choosing our own path here.
Barry
I've resisted all attempts to pry my StarTac mobile phone from my grasp!
I love the sound quality and won't trade it in for a color screen, or
the chance to listen to Toccata and Fugue in D Minor on a dinky little
phone of the moment with keys so small I can't even SEE them, much less
PRESS them! My wife had hopes of getting a replacement for her StarTac
at Christmas but I quelled her enthusiasm for switching by having her
listen to the awful sound quality of the newer phones.
dave
DexAZ wrote:
> Like it or not, we ARE in a global economy these days. A cellular phone
> product I service _was_ made in Ft. Worth, then Brazil and now is made in
> China...of course. Products are built where they can be built most
> profitably. These days, that means somewhere with little or no problems
> with unions, noise buffer zones, industrial waste laws and of course no real
> minimum wages. What we consider "slave wages" per hour here, are more than
> some folks earn per day or week in other parts of the world. I'm not saying
> it's right, I'm just saying this is the way things are. Just because an
> item is built outside the US does not mean, necessarily, that it is not
> built well or built right. Most of our TVs are made somewhere in the
> orient. RCA & AMPEX used to built broadcast color TV cameras and video tape
> machines here. But Sony, JVC, Panasonic and Ikagami built the same items
> with newer features, smaller and less expensively. Would you still be
> holding out for an American RCA or Zenith color set? RCA is built off shore
> and owned by a French firm, Thompson, if I remember correctly. Not sure
> Zenith even exists. And you can get a darned good color set at Wally World
> for $129 from some firm I can't even pronounce. I know the folks who used
> to built RCA, Zenith, Motorola/Quasar etc. here are out of work. Not
> because they built a poor product but more likely because Sony, Panasonic
> etc. were able to build a better product & change with the moods of the US
> market (you and me) faster as well as build with cheaper labor. We want new
> bells and whistles all the time. American manufacturers are not as willing
> to put those bells and whistles on their products. Motorola's StarTac
> phones for example. They were small, tough and they did the job. They did
> not, however, offer ringtones, games or video cameras. Moto almost lost all
> their share of the handset market before they brought out their new line
> with those features. The second and third world seems quite capable of
> building our entertainment systems, cars, trucks, motorcycles, cell phone
> system infrastructure & the handsets, PDAs, hard drives, clothing etc. etc.
> And doing a first class job of it. If not, why do _we_ buy the stuff? If
> America could build a better mouse trap at a competitive price, why don't
> we? Because we choose to have clean air and water. Because we like to live
> in America as it is not as it was. Look up some photos of America's
> industrial centers, rail centers and ports during WWII. Do you want to live
> with _that_ in our water and air? An old neighbor of mine had his entire
> breathing system screwed up. Spend all his life as a fireman and engineer
> on coal and early oil fired railroad locomotives. No anti-pollution system
> on those bad boys. His lungs did that job for many years. Until they began
> to fail. I like the clean air we enjoy today. I do not want to spend my
> last few years lugging around an Oxygen bottle. I would also like to thank
> those from my fathers generation who made the sacrifices, in Europe & the
> South Pacific as well as in our mines, foundries, factories, mills,
> rail/dock/shipyards required to assure the freedom I enjoy today.
>
> I know a couple guys with a boatload of JET products. I'm sure they would
> rather have spend their $$ on something made in the USA but could not find a
> competitive American made product for the same price. So they bought JET.
> So far, they have been very happy with JET and these guys would really bitch
> like hell if they thought their investment went for "junk".
>
> As I stated earlier, we live in a global economy...like it or not. We will
> need to adapt and learn to life with that fact. We tried to isolate
> ourselves from the world before WWII. Turns out that may not have been such
> a good idea.
>
> If the JET looks like it will do the job for you and is the best product you
> can find for your $$, then buy it! There are many Americans involved in
> bring it to your door. If you insist on American made...check out
> Shopsmith. I have one and it does a great job. There were a number of SS
> clones built here and off-shore, some time back. Most of those firms died
> off so sometimes a good old American firm CAN compete and win. But then you
> really don't want a Shopsmith, even though it is built in Dayton, OH, do
> you?
>
> Time for a chill pill
>
> DexAZ
>
> "Oregon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>A recent WoodCraft flier revealed that the Jet bandsaw I've been lusting
>>after is made in Taiwan. I've got this "buy American" thing happening,
>>partly because...well, I'm an American, and because other than cars and
>>electronics, I'm not convinced that those foreign boys make a decent
>>product. My BP goes up a bit every time I have to grab a "mm" wrench. So
>>what's the scoop with Jet? Seems to be a quality tool, but "made in
>
> Taiwan"
>
>>doesn't fill me with tool-joy. I'm sure I'd be disappointed if I
>
> researched
>
>>the country of origin for my Delta and Craftsman tools.
>>Your thoughts on the matter?
>>O.
>>
>>
>
>
>
For myself, I bought a Jet bench mortiser because it was the best
value for the dollar, and for no other reason. It wasn't the
cheapest, and there were better ones out there, but it does the job
and didn't break the bank.
I won't buy crap, just because it's cheap, but I certainly won't buy
it just because it's American. American manufacturers need to find
way to make better tools at a competative price.
Bill
[email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> In article <[email protected]>, "Oregon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >A recent WoodCraft flier revealed that the Jet bandsaw I've been lusting
> >after is made in Taiwan. I've got this "buy American" thing happening,
> >partly because...well, I'm an American, and because other than cars and
> >electronics, I'm not convinced that those foreign boys make a decent
> >product. My BP goes up a bit every time I have to grab a "mm" wrench. So
> >what's the scoop with Jet? Seems to be a quality tool, but "made in Taiwan"
> >doesn't fill me with tool-joy. I'm sure I'd be disappointed if I researched
> >the country of origin for my Delta and Craftsman tools.
> >Your thoughts on the matter?
Like it or not, we ARE in a global economy these days. A cellular phone
product I service _was_ made in Ft. Worth, then Brazil and now is made in
China...of course. Products are built where they can be built most
profitably. These days, that means somewhere with little or no problems
with unions, noise buffer zones, industrial waste laws and of course no real
minimum wages. What we consider "slave wages" per hour here, are more than
some folks earn per day or week in other parts of the world. I'm not saying
it's right, I'm just saying this is the way things are. Just because an
item is built outside the US does not mean, necessarily, that it is not
built well or built right. Most of our TVs are made somewhere in the
orient. RCA & AMPEX used to built broadcast color TV cameras and video tape
machines here. But Sony, JVC, Panasonic and Ikagami built the same items
with newer features, smaller and less expensively. Would you still be
holding out for an American RCA or Zenith color set? RCA is built off shore
and owned by a French firm, Thompson, if I remember correctly. Not sure
Zenith even exists. And you can get a darned good color set at Wally World
for $129 from some firm I can't even pronounce. I know the folks who used
to built RCA, Zenith, Motorola/Quasar etc. here are out of work. Not
because they built a poor product but more likely because Sony, Panasonic
etc. were able to build a better product & change with the moods of the US
market (you and me) faster as well as build with cheaper labor. We want new
bells and whistles all the time. American manufacturers are not as willing
to put those bells and whistles on their products. Motorola's StarTac
phones for example. They were small, tough and they did the job. They did
not, however, offer ringtones, games or video cameras. Moto almost lost all
their share of the handset market before they brought out their new line
with those features. The second and third world seems quite capable of
building our entertainment systems, cars, trucks, motorcycles, cell phone
system infrastructure & the handsets, PDAs, hard drives, clothing etc. etc.
And doing a first class job of it. If not, why do _we_ buy the stuff? If
America could build a better mouse trap at a competitive price, why don't
we? Because we choose to have clean air and water. Because we like to live
in America as it is not as it was. Look up some photos of America's
industrial centers, rail centers and ports during WWII. Do you want to live
with _that_ in our water and air? An old neighbor of mine had his entire
breathing system screwed up. Spend all his life as a fireman and engineer
on coal and early oil fired railroad locomotives. No anti-pollution system
on those bad boys. His lungs did that job for many years. Until they began
to fail. I like the clean air we enjoy today. I do not want to spend my
last few years lugging around an Oxygen bottle. I would also like to thank
those from my fathers generation who made the sacrifices, in Europe & the
South Pacific as well as in our mines, foundries, factories, mills,
rail/dock/shipyards required to assure the freedom I enjoy today.
I know a couple guys with a boatload of JET products. I'm sure they would
rather have spend their $$ on something made in the USA but could not find a
competitive American made product for the same price. So they bought JET.
So far, they have been very happy with JET and these guys would really bitch
like hell if they thought their investment went for "junk".
As I stated earlier, we live in a global economy...like it or not. We will
need to adapt and learn to life with that fact. We tried to isolate
ourselves from the world before WWII. Turns out that may not have been such
a good idea.
If the JET looks like it will do the job for you and is the best product you
can find for your $$, then buy it! There are many Americans involved in
bring it to your door. If you insist on American made...check out
Shopsmith. I have one and it does a great job. There were a number of SS
clones built here and off-shore, some time back. Most of those firms died
off so sometimes a good old American firm CAN compete and win. But then you
really don't want a Shopsmith, even though it is built in Dayton, OH, do
you?
Time for a chill pill
DexAZ
"Oregon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> A recent WoodCraft flier revealed that the Jet bandsaw I've been lusting
> after is made in Taiwan. I've got this "buy American" thing happening,
> partly because...well, I'm an American, and because other than cars and
> electronics, I'm not convinced that those foreign boys make a decent
> product. My BP goes up a bit every time I have to grab a "mm" wrench. So
> what's the scoop with Jet? Seems to be a quality tool, but "made in
Taiwan"
> doesn't fill me with tool-joy. I'm sure I'd be disappointed if I
researched
> the country of origin for my Delta and Craftsman tools.
> Your thoughts on the matter?
> O.
>
>
Leon wrote:
> "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:-Kidncu0_tgDydrdRVn->
>
>>Agreed ... notice the trend?
>>
>>Although I am not a Bush basher, and can't swear to it as it may just be
>>partisan BS, but I recently read somewhere that the Admininistration is
>>trying to get fast food restaurants re-classifed from "Service" to
>>"Manufacturing".
>>
>>With the number of manufacturing jobs being lost to this country, it's not
>>hard to figure how much better that would be for the statistics.
>
>
>
> Shoot Swingman, I thought McDonalds was imported food.
>
McDonalds has food? When did this happen?
I heard the same thing as Swingman, the Administration wants to reclassify fast
food workers as manufacturing workers.
What's sad is there are people who will quote the new statistics with the new
classification as though they were numbers under the old classification.
--
--
Mark
N.E. Ohio
Never argue with a fool, a bystander can't tell you apart. (S. Clemens, A.K.A.
Mark Twain)
When in doubt hit the throttle. It may not help but it sure ends the suspense.
(Gaz, r.moto)
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:-Kidncu0_tgDydrdRVn->
> Agreed ... notice the trend?
>
> Although I am not a Bush basher, and can't swear to it as it may just be
> partisan BS, but I recently read somewhere that the Admininistration is
> trying to get fast food restaurants re-classifed from "Service" to
> "Manufacturing".
>
> With the number of manufacturing jobs being lost to this country, it's not
> hard to figure how much better that would be for the statistics.
Shoot Swingman, I thought McDonalds was imported food.
Silvan wrote:
> (Yes, I'm still pissed off about the total crap sitting on store shelves
> wearing the Tonka brand name. Hasbro, you suck, and I don't mean that in a
> Wreck way.)
>
I think it was 1969.
I left my Tonka dump truck (PayHauler) in the drives turn around. My mother
backed the LTD into it's bed. I swear the tire was off the ground.
Only damage to the Tonka was the bed side got bent. Axles didn't bend and the
tires didn't break.
Those were toys built to last.
--
--
Mark
N.E. Ohio
Never argue with a fool, a bystander can't tell you apart. (S. Clemens, A.K.A.
Mark Twain)
When in doubt hit the throttle. It may not help but it sure ends the suspense.
(Gaz, r.moto)
mttt wrote:
> Yes - according to that history - Jet started as an importer. What plans
> WMH has for it, remains to be seen.
What else do you expect? They're going to dump quality into the toilet and
slap JET stickers on every piece of crap they can get their hands on.
That's what such people almost always do. Buy a respected brand, sell
anything they can lay their hands on under that brand, run it into the
toilet, and then get rid of the division after its reputation is destroyed.
(Yes, I'm still pissed off about the total crap sitting on store shelves
wearing the Tonka brand name. Hasbro, you suck, and I don't mean that in a
Wreck way.)
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
On Thu, 04 Mar 2004 23:44:32 GMT, "mttt" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>My take-home after the piece ended was that as absurd as the McDonald's
>reclassification was - the government's already done a bang-up job of
>screwing it up. Dubya' was, at best, "piling on".
FWIW, McDonalds does have "assembly" posters hanging in the kitchen,
and they refer to the process as the "build". <G>
I'm quite sure that garbage like this can come from either side of the
aisle on any given day.
Barry
About 3 to 5 years ago I wanted a 'new' small outboard that had the ability
to 'shift' gears. With the 3.5hp you were 'in gear' ALL the time. I had to
swing it 180 degrees and lean way over the transom to be in 'reverse'. A bit
tricky for getting a sailboat into a slip or to a ramp. While Yamaha,
Tahotsu, and Nissan {actually made by Tahotsu !!} are all over the place, I
wanted to at least *try* to 'buy American'. I had started out - MANY years
ago - with an Evinrude, a great American 'standard'.
I also believe in *shopping*, plus there are actually very few 'small'
engines available. I finally found an 'older' dealer - in 'downtown South
Philly'. He had a 'leftover' 6hp, extra-long shaft Evinrude 'Yachttwin' -
with a generator. This was EXACTLY what I was looking for - it was
specifically for SAILBOATS !!
Lugged the carton home - a BIG carton, it had a 'impromptu' stand inside for
shipping support - and into the shop. I put together a 'work stand' tall
enough to allow the 25 inch 'shaft' to clear the floor, and got the motor
set-up. As I 'prepped' it - cleaning, waxing, greasing - I noticed the
attached metal 'manufacturers plate' . . . 'Made in BELGIUM' !! Talk about
stunned !!
Anyhow, the motor works fine. 'Evinrude' {at least the outboards}have been
sold to 'Bombardier' of Canada. And that's the last time I went 'out of my
way' to be 'patriotic'.
Could I go on ranting about the inequity of it all ? - ABSOLUTELY, but it
wouldn't do any good.
Regards,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Bill McNutt" wrote in message
>
> >American manufacturers need to find
> > way to make better tools at a competative price.
>
> Most that are still in business today do just that ... they take it
overseas
> to take advantage of the lower cost of the second of the two necessities
for
> goods production in Eco 101.
>
> --
> www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 2/28/04
>
>
Doug Miller wrote:
> "Made in Taiwan" is a lot better than "Made in China". At least the
> capitalist economy in Taiwan provides a better incentive for quality than
> does China's communist system.
Second that... It's gotten to the point, sad though it may be, where Made
in Taiwan is a relatively good thing. I'd buy Taiwanese over Chinese any
day, even if China still insists that Taiwan is a wayward province.
American is better, of course, but let's not even go there.
AFAIK, JET has *always* been an importer. Am I wrong about that old time
Wreckers? Seems they came onto the scene with imported copies of Delta
tools, and they've always been an importer, rather than a manufacturer.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
"George" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> Japan Equipment & Tools was, I believe, the original J.E.T.
>
> "Silvan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > AFAIK, JET has *always* been an importer. Am I wrong about that old
time
> > Wreckers? Seems they came onto the scene with imported copies of Delta
> > tools, and they've always been an importer, rather than a manufacturer.
>
>
Myth - According to the "Jet History" section in my Ittura Designs catalog.
The history is a tad obscure and relies on knowledge of early workers. But
the story goes that "Whazz-His-Name" (the man who started Jet) rode an early
707 to Japan. Liked it, was impressed, and adapted the moniker to his
company.
Yes - according to that history - Jet started as an importer. What plans
WMH has for it, remains to be seen.
On Wed, 03 Mar 2004 02:40:01 GMT, "Oregon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>A recent WoodCraft flier revealed that the Jet bandsaw I've been lusting
>after is made in Taiwan. I've got this "buy American" thing happening,
>partly because...well, I'm an American, and because other than cars and
>electronics, I'm not convinced that those foreign boys make a decent
>product. My BP goes up a bit every time I have to grab a "mm" wrench. So
>what's the scoop with Jet? Seems to be a quality tool, but "made in Taiwan"
>doesn't fill me with tool-joy. I'm sure I'd be disappointed if I researched
>the country of origin for my Delta and Craftsman tools.
>Your thoughts on the matter?
I'd be more impressed with your jingoism if you did do the research
before you bought each and every one of those tools.* The fact that
you don't know just means you're a sunshine patriot (not intending to
insult any real patriots) who only swings at the oriental (or
wherever) straw man when it's convenient and showy.
If you REALLY had this "buy American thing happening" you'd have been
doing it consistently all along, and wouldn't have any suspect tools
in the first place.
* Actually, no I wouldn't.
- -
LRod
Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999
http://www.woodbutcher.net
On Fri, 5 Mar 2004 09:23:40 -0800, "CW" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Yes, they have always been an importer. Long before they got much into
>woodworking, they had a line of imported metalworking machinery. Some models
>of their bandsaws weren't bad but most were junk. Their milling machines
>were garbage, through and through.
>
>"Silvan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> AFAIK, JET has *always* been an importer. Am I wrong about that old time
>> Wreckers? Seems they came onto the scene with imported copies of Delta
>> tools, and they've always been an importer, rather than a manufacturer.
>
I have an early jet horizontal/vertical metal cutting bandsaw. it
works fine, and appears to be identical to the delta and harbor
freight models.
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> Although I am not a Bush basher, and can't swear to it as it may just be
> partisan BS, but I recently read somewhere that the Admininistration is
> trying to get fast food restaurants re-classifed from "Service" to
> "Manufacturing".
I heard that teaser too on NPR and stayed in the car long enough to listen
to the whole story.
As ridiculous as it sounds, the commentator went on to say that the
classification is pretty arbitrary. IIRC, "bakers" are an example of folks
already classified as Manufacturers.
My take-home after the piece ended was that as absurd as the McDonald's
reclassification was - the government's already done a bang-up job of
screwing it up. Dubya' was, at best, "piling on".
Swingman wrote:
> trying to get fast food restaurants re-classifed from "Service" to
> "Manufacturing".
>
> With the number of manufacturing jobs being lost to this country, it's not
> hard to figure how much better that would be for the statistics.
Good grief.
Though I can sort of see it in a way. Next they'll do the same for BORG
type jobs. After all, grabbing items and slapping them across a scanner is
another robot-like endeavor. Next thing you know, every cashier in the
country will have a manufacturing job.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
"Bill McNutt" wrote in message
>American manufacturers need to find
> way to make better tools at a competative price.
Most that are still in business today do just that ... they take it overseas
to take advantage of the lower cost of the second of the two necessities for
goods production in Eco 101.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 2/28/04