I have a number of older rackmounted computers that I would like to use
for CNC usage.
What are the requirements (CPU, MHz, HD size, video) that is needed for
the popular types of software in use today?
Does anyone use rack mounted computers? If so, how do you have them set
up in your shop environment?
Since I have a number of them, where should one draw the line as to
what to keep and what to toss?
Is there anything one should salvage from the old computers before one
scraps them?
Thanks
TMT
I normally would go to the various CNC sites but if you do you will
find that they are deliberately vague about what computing power they
actually need.
In addition, I have the old computers NOW and many of them are rack
mount systems that are very expensive to replace. Considering that they
are setup for running in less than desirable environments, it would be
a shame to toss them if they could be used in homebrew CNC setups.
One thought I have is if the CPUs are not powerful enough, one could
retrofit the cases with newer electronics....but first one needs to
assess if the older electronics are insufficient for the CNC software
that is popular today.
So has anyone done this analysis...with all the older computers out
there I would expect this to be of interest to many people.
Perhaps I should also ask what type of CPU power do you have in your
shop? While my immedicate interest is in CNC, a computer has many uses
in a shop environment.
TMT
Nirodac wrote:
> "Too_Many_Tools" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
> > I have a number of older rackmounted computers that I would
> > like to use for CNC usage.
> >
> > What are the requirements (CPU, MHz, HD size, video) that
> > is needed for the popular types of software in use today?
> >
> > Does anyone use rack mounted computers? If so, how do you
> > have them set up in your shop environment?
> >
> > Since I have a number of them, where should one draw the
> > line as to what to keep and what to toss?
> >
> > Is there anything one should salvage from the old computers
> > before one scraps them?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > TMT
> >
>
> Why don't you go to your chosen CNC web site and see what
> their software requires for CPU hardware. I think in this
> case you may want to find the software first, then see what
> will work on your hardware. Remember though, that you already
> have "old" computer equipment, and that it will become
> obsolete even faster than current equipment, meaning the next
> update of your favourite CNC software may exceed the computers
> ability to function.
>
> And very important, DO NOT use the computer in a non-clean
> (dust free) enviroment, like your shop. The airflow through
> the computer needs to be dust free.
Do a search on Linux CNC and you may find some solutions. What is old?
Rack mount usually means server grade pc, but not always.
Too_Many_Tools wrote:
> I have a number of older rackmounted computers that I would like to use
> for CNC usage.
>
> What are the requirements (CPU, MHz, HD size, video) that is needed for
> the popular types of software in use today?
>
> Does anyone use rack mounted computers? If so, how do you have them set
> up in your shop environment?
>
> Since I have a number of them, where should one draw the line as to
> what to keep and what to toss?
>
> Is there anything one should salvage from the old computers before one
> scraps them?
>
> Thanks
>
> TMT
What speed of CPU will you be using?
What type of backplane will the (passive?) motherboard be?
Your efforts are similar to mine. One of the reasons why I am trying to
go with a rack mount is the flexibility of the I/O....aka "lots of
slots".
Does anyone know when the switch from ISA to PCI for the motherboard
occurred in relation to the evolution of the CPU (PI, PII, PIII,
PIIII)?
TMT
DoN. Nichols wrote:
> According to Nirodac <[email protected]>:
> > "Too_Many_Tools" <[email protected]> wrote in
> > news:[email protected]:
> >
> > > I have a number of older rackmounted computers that I would
> > > like to use for CNC usage.
>
> [ ... ]
>
> > > Does anyone use rack mounted computers? If so, how do you
> > > have them set up in your shop environment?
>
> [ ... ]
>
> > Why don't you go to your chosen CNC web site and see what
> > their software requires for CPU hardware. I think in this
> > case you may want to find the software first, then see what
> > will work on your hardware. Remember though, that you already
> > have "old" computer equipment, and that it will become
> > obsolete even faster than current equipment, meaning the next
> > update of your favourite CNC software may exceed the computers
> > ability to function.
>
> Good advice -- though if the current generation will do, keep
> spares of all the parts to keep that machine working. "Obsolete"
> doesn't matter as long as it can still do what you need. And the EMC
> package (based on a modified linux kernel) tends to not be as resource
> hungry as the typical Windows-based system. (*And* -- EMC is free.
> It can control either servos (with a Servo-to-Go board, and possibly
> others), or steppers through parallel ports. :-)
>
> > And very important, DO NOT use the computer in a non-clean
> > (dust free) enviroment, like your shop. The airflow through
> > the computer needs to be dust free.
>
> That is one of the things which I like about the rack-mount
> computer chassis that I am vetting up for an EMC (linux based)
> controller for my Bridgeport. It has an easily removable and cleanable
> filter at the front (accessed from behind the locking glass front panel
> which protects the floppy and CD-ROM drives), and the air is pulled in
> through that and exhausted at the back.
>
> And -- the rack is also going to contain a bunch of servo
> amplifiers and other interface circuitry to allow the computer to read
> the position encoders and the overrun switches, and to control things
> like the analog voltage to the spindle VFD (to control spindle speed),
> and to switch on things like the lube pump before any axis motion, and
> to switch it off if it has been sitting idle too long.
>
> So -- if your rack mount chassis has filters for the air intake,
> you can even swap in faster CPU boards and such at need.
>
> It even has enough removable panels for I/O purposes to let me
> get all four 50-pin ribbon connectors out from the Servo-to-Go board
> (only one connector is on the card bracket, leaving three more to mount.
> One is in a card slot next to the board, and the other two are in a long
> narrow removable panel above the card brackets.
>
> Enjoy,
> DoN.
>
> --
> Email: <[email protected]> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
> (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
> --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
"What operating system(s) are you using? "
I think you are on to something here George.
At first glance the biggest tipping point seems to be whether or not
one uses a WIndow interface.
Without Windows means you can live with a much slower
machine....controlling steppers or servos really doesn't take much from
a CPU.
I suspect that this dividing line is what I am trying to determine
through my questions as to "how fast".
Maybe the real queston is "How much of a machine do you need to run the
Windows environment you are forced to run?" Anyone know the answer to
that.....what are the real MINIMUM requirements for a machine when you
need to run Windows (3.1, 95, 98, Me, XP)?
Along with "how fast" also comes the questions of how much RAM and hard
drive space.
As to what operating systems I will be running? Well it will likely be
whatever these machines will handle.
TMT
F. George McDuffee wrote:
> On 24 Jul 2006 12:42:56 -0700, "Too_Many_Tools"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >I normally would go to the various CNC sites but if you do you will
> >find that they are deliberately vague about what computing power they
> >actually need.
> >
> >In addition, I have the old computers NOW and many of them are rack
> >mount systems that are very expensive to replace. Considering that they
> >are setup for running in less than desirable environments, it would be
> >a shame to toss them if they could be used in homebrew CNC setups.
> >
> >One thought I have is if the CPUs are not powerful enough, one could
> >retrofit the cases with newer electronics....but first one needs to
> >assess if the older electronics are insufficient for the CNC software
> >that is popular today.
> >
> >So has anyone done this analysis...with all the older computers out
> >there I would expect this to be of interest to many people.
> >
> >Perhaps I should also ask what type of CPU power do you have in your
> >shop? While my immedicate interest is in CNC, a computer has many uses
> >in a shop environment.
> >
> >TMT
> >
> >
> >
> >Nirodac wrote:
> >> "Too_Many_Tools" <[email protected]> wrote in
> >> news:[email protected]:
> >>
> >> > I have a number of older rackmounted computers that I would
> >> > like to use for CNC usage.
> >> >
> >> > What are the requirements (CPU, MHz, HD size, video) that
> >> > is needed for the popular types of software in use today?
> >> >
> >> > Does anyone use rack mounted computers? If so, how do you
> >> > have them set up in your shop environment?
> >> >
> >> > Since I have a number of them, where should one draw the
> >> > line as to what to keep and what to toss?
> >> >
> >> > Is there anything one should salvage from the old computers
> >> > before one scraps them?
> >> >
> >> > Thanks
> >> >
> >> > TMT
> >> >
> >>
> >> Why don't you go to your chosen CNC web site and see what
> >> their software requires for CPU hardware. I think in this
> >> case you may want to find the software first, then see what
> >> will work on your hardware. Remember though, that you already
> >> have "old" computer equipment, and that it will become
> >> obsolete even faster than current equipment, meaning the next
> >> update of your favourite CNC software may exceed the computers
> >> ability to function.
> >>
> >> And very important, DO NOT use the computer in a non-clean
> >> (dust free) enviroment, like your shop. The airflow through
> >> the computer needs to be dust free.
> ==========================
> You may just need to replace the motherboard, CPU and memory in
> the existing rack mount enclosure. I would suggest getting the
> exact model numbers of what you have and contacting a vendor that
> specalizes in hardware upgrades. If you have a digital camera
> photos may also help.
>
> I have had good luck with Tiger Direct.
>
> see
> http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/Category/category_tlc.asp?CatId=14
>
> for example you can get an Intel D865GVHZL & Celeron D 340
> 2.93GHz processor for only only $79.99 after rebate and add 1 gig
> of memory (2) each Ultra 512MB PC3200 @ $39.99 after rebate or
> 160$ total for an upgrade. You may want to upgrade your hard
> drive and add a cd/dvd burner.
>
> Generally a "do it yourself" job if you take it slow and don't
> force anything.
>
> What operating system(s) are you using?
>
>
> Unka George
> (George McDuffee)
>
> There is something to be said for government by a great aristocracy
> which has furnished leaders to the nation in peace and war for generations;
> even a democrat like myself must admit this.
>
> But there is absolutely nothing to be said for government by a plutocracy,
> for government by men very powerful in certain lines and gifted with the "money touch,"
> but with ideals which in their essence are merely those of so many glorified pawnbrokers.
>
> Theodore Roosevelt (1858-1919), U.S. Republican (later Progressive) politician, president. Letter, 15 Nov. 1913.
"I can't see why a 4.88 mz XT wouldn't be enough to run the machines
but the cartoon interface may be a power hog. "
The "cartoon interface" IS the power hog...note how little CPU power
text based CNC applications use.
TMT
[email protected] wrote:
> On 24 Jul 2006 12:42:56 -0700, "Too_Many_Tools"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >I normally would go to the various CNC sites but if you do you will
> >find that they are deliberately vague about what computing power they
> >actually need.
> When I looked it seems the version 1.x software is W/3.1 and up so
> damn near anything should run it. The version 2.x is NT or XP only so
> that pretty much gets you up into the PIII neighborhood, just to
> support the bloated operating system.
> I can't see why a 4.88 mz XT wouldn't be enough to run the machines
> but the cartoon interface may be a power hog.
Thanks for the info....
How about speeds...what were the maximum speeds for the PI, PII, PIII
and P4?
Also any idea for last year of general production....say PI was last
produced in year XXXX?
TMT
clare wrote:
> On 25 Jul 2006 07:33:51 -0700, "Too_Many_Tools"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >What speed of CPU will you be using?
> >
> >What type of backplane will the (passive?) motherboard be?
> >
> >Your efforts are similar to mine. One of the reasons why I am trying to
> >go with a rack mount is the flexibility of the I/O....aka "lots of
> >slots".
> >
> >Does anyone know when the switch from ISA to PCI for the motherboard
> >occurred in relation to the evolution of the CPU (PI, PII, PIII,
> >PIIII)?
> >
> Virtually all P1s had ISA.
> Most P2 boards had at least 1 ISA.
> Some P3 boards had 1 ISA,(very rare) and I have never seen an ISA on a
> P4.
>
> --
> Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Too_Many_Tools wrote:
> I have a number of older rackmounted computers that I would like to use
> for CNC usage.
OK, that could be any one of a score of mini-computers, old
Intel/Motorola/etc. micros, or even programmable controllers.
Makes it kind of difficult to answer your questions.
--
It's turtles, all the way down
On 25 Jul 2006 07:33:51 -0700, "Too_Many_Tools"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>What speed of CPU will you be using?
>
>What type of backplane will the (passive?) motherboard be?
>
>Your efforts are similar to mine. One of the reasons why I am trying to
>go with a rack mount is the flexibility of the I/O....aka "lots of
>slots".
>
>Does anyone know when the switch from ISA to PCI for the motherboard
>occurred in relation to the evolution of the CPU (PI, PII, PIII,
>PIIII)?
>
Virtually all P1s had ISA.
Most P2 boards had at least 1 ISA.
Some P3 boards had 1 ISA,(very rare) and I have never seen an ISA on a
P4.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Roy Smith wrote:
>
> >>And very important, DO NOT use the computer in a non-clean
> >>(dust free) enviroment, like your shop. The airflow through
> >>the computer needs to be dust free.
>
> The biggest problem with dust in computers is that it blocks the
> airflow and makes the machine overheat.
That and depending on what you do in your shop (grinding, plasma
cutting, machining graphite, etc.) you can have conductive dust that
will short things out very quickly.
I worked on some CNC machines in a shop that machined graphite composite
molds and *everything* in their shop was sealed. Everything normally
open drip proof was sealed up, the control cabinets had A/C ducted in
and out and the cabinet doors were sealed with duct tape, etc. All the
even with a truly massive dust collection system that once sucked up a
1" micrometer that was placed near one of the collection hoses and
lifted it 20' to the ceiling and then 100'+ to the dust separator and
deposited it in the collection drums.
Pete C.
Gunner wrote:
>
> On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 18:04:51 GMT, "Pete C." <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Roy Smith wrote:
> >>
> >> >>And very important, DO NOT use the computer in a non-clean
> >> >>(dust free) enviroment, like your shop. The airflow through
> >> >>the computer needs to be dust free.
> >>
> >> The biggest problem with dust in computers is that it blocks the
> >> airflow and makes the machine overheat.
> >
> >That and depending on what you do in your shop (grinding, plasma
> >cutting, machining graphite, etc.) you can have conductive dust that
> >will short things out very quickly.
> >
> >I worked on some CNC machines in a shop that machined graphite composite
> >molds and *everything* in their shop was sealed. Everything normally
> >open drip proof was sealed up, the control cabinets had A/C ducted in
> >and out and the cabinet doors were sealed with duct tape, etc. All the
> >even with a truly massive dust collection system that once sucked up a
> >1" micrometer that was placed near one of the collection hoses and
> >lifted it 20' to the ceiling and then 100'+ to the dust separator and
> >deposited it in the collection drums.
> >
> >Pete C.
>
> Did it pass calibration afterwards?
>
> <G>
>
> Gunner
>
> "I think this is because of your belief in biological Marxism.
> As a genetic communist you feel that noticing behavioural
> patterns relating to race would cause a conflict with your belief
> in biological Marxism." Big Pete, famous Usenet Racist
I don't know, but it sure took quite a clanking ride.
Pete C.
You might look at the later IBM 75xx series, the 7585 and up. They have
the ability to mount filters in them. They MIGHT get up into the P3
range, but I'm not sure.
[BTW, I'm looking for any IBM 7568 "Gearbox 800" industrial computers or
parts]
I've seen computers caked with dust and still working, but with the
advent of GHz CPUs, having a dust buildup on the CPU heatsink is dicing
with death.
Pete C. wrote:
> Roy Smith wrote:
>>>> And very important, DO NOT use the computer in a non-clean
>>>> (dust free) enviroment, like your shop. The airflow through
>>>> the computer needs to be dust free.
>> The biggest problem with dust in computers is that it blocks the
>> airflow and makes the machine overheat.
>
> That and depending on what you do in your shop (grinding, plasma
> cutting, machining graphite, etc.) you can have conductive dust that
> will short things out very quickly.
>
> I worked on some CNC machines in a shop that machined graphite composite
> molds and *everything* in their shop was sealed. Everything normally
> open drip proof was sealed up, the control cabinets had A/C ducted in
> and out and the cabinet doors were sealed with duct tape, etc. All the
> even with a truly massive dust collection system that once sucked up a
> 1" micrometer that was placed near one of the collection hoses and
> lifted it 20' to the ceiling and then 100'+ to the dust separator and
> deposited it in the collection drums.
>
> Pete C.
On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 16:51:15 -0400, clare at snyder.on.ca wrote:
>>TMT
>>
>>
>Non Graphic (non windows) PC CNC runs fine on 286 processors in many
>cases. Windows interface needs minimum 486, Win98 and XP or NT start
>at the Pentium level.
OmniTurn CNC lathes software runs just fine on the 386 it was written
for, or anything higher.
Gunner
"I think this is because of your belief in biological Marxism.
As a genetic communist you feel that noticing behavioural
patterns relating to race would cause a conflict with your belief
in biological Marxism." Big Pete, famous Usenet Racist
Greg, the 7568 was the only IBM industrial computer that used a passive
backplane AND MCA interposers. The 758x and higher had PII, I'm not sure
which because they are PCI or PCI/ISA.
It uses a Socket 3 and tops out with a DX4-100 or a Turbochip. Limited
to a maximum of 32MB of FPM [a fifth bank of 8MB provides ECC). I'm
afraid the current CNC programs would find it excruciatingly slow if not
generate a hang trying to step the servos fast enough.
[email protected] wrote:
>> You might look at the later IBM 75xx series, the 7585 and up. They have
>> the ability to mount filters in them. They MIGHT get up into the P3
>> range, but I'm not sure.
> Those were PS/2 boxes and I doubt if any of them could even be hot
> rodded up to a PII.
True.
"Roy Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >>And very important, DO NOT use the computer in a non-clean
> >>(dust free) enviroment, like your shop. The airflow through
> >>the computer needs to be dust free.
>
> The biggest problem with dust in computers is that it blocks the
> airflow and makes the machine overheat.
"Gunner" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 16:51:15 -0400, clare at snyder.on.ca wrote:
>
>>>TMT
>>>
>>>
>>Non Graphic (non windows) PC CNC runs fine on 286 processors in many
>>cases. Windows interface needs minimum 486, Win98 and XP or NT start
>>at the Pentium level.
>
> OmniTurn CNC lathes software runs just fine on the 386 it was written
> for, or anything higher.
>
> Gunner
The early Haas used 386 motherboards.
"Too_Many_Tools" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> I have a number of older rackmounted computers that I would
> like to use for CNC usage.
>
> What are the requirements (CPU, MHz, HD size, video) that
> is needed for the popular types of software in use today?
>
> Does anyone use rack mounted computers? If so, how do you
> have them set up in your shop environment?
>
> Since I have a number of them, where should one draw the
> line as to what to keep and what to toss?
>
> Is there anything one should salvage from the old computers
> before one scraps them?
>
> Thanks
>
> TMT
>
Why don't you go to your chosen CNC web site and see what
their software requires for CPU hardware. I think in this
case you may want to find the software first, then see what
will work on your hardware. Remember though, that you already
have "old" computer equipment, and that it will become
obsolete even faster than current equipment, meaning the next
update of your favourite CNC software may exceed the computers
ability to function.
And very important, DO NOT use the computer in a non-clean
(dust free) enviroment, like your shop. The airflow through
the computer needs to be dust free.
On 25 Jul 2006 08:06:37 -0700, "Too_Many_Tools"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Maybe the real queston is "How much of a machine do you need to run the
>Windows environment you are forced to run?" Anyone know the answer to
>that.....what are the real MINIMUM requirements for a machine when you
>need to run Windows (3.1, 95, 98, Me, XP)?
Windoze, all versions above 3 require "protected mode" and that
happened at the 286 level. I saw W/95 running on a 386SX with 6 meg of
storage but it was crawling in the mud. Click the mouse, go get a cup
of coffee. It might be done when you get back.
According to Nirodac <[email protected]>:
> "Too_Many_Tools" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
> > I have a number of older rackmounted computers that I would
> > like to use for CNC usage.
[ ... ]
> > Does anyone use rack mounted computers? If so, how do you
> > have them set up in your shop environment?
[ ... ]
> Why don't you go to your chosen CNC web site and see what
> their software requires for CPU hardware. I think in this
> case you may want to find the software first, then see what
> will work on your hardware. Remember though, that you already
> have "old" computer equipment, and that it will become
> obsolete even faster than current equipment, meaning the next
> update of your favourite CNC software may exceed the computers
> ability to function.
Good advice -- though if the current generation will do, keep
spares of all the parts to keep that machine working. "Obsolete"
doesn't matter as long as it can still do what you need. And the EMC
package (based on a modified linux kernel) tends to not be as resource
hungry as the typical Windows-based system. (*And* -- EMC is free.
It can control either servos (with a Servo-to-Go board, and possibly
others), or steppers through parallel ports. :-)
> And very important, DO NOT use the computer in a non-clean
> (dust free) enviroment, like your shop. The airflow through
> the computer needs to be dust free.
That is one of the things which I like about the rack-mount
computer chassis that I am vetting up for an EMC (linux based)
controller for my Bridgeport. It has an easily removable and cleanable
filter at the front (accessed from behind the locking glass front panel
which protects the floppy and CD-ROM drives), and the air is pulled in
through that and exhausted at the back.
And -- the rack is also going to contain a bunch of servo
amplifiers and other interface circuitry to allow the computer to read
the position encoders and the overrun switches, and to control things
like the analog voltage to the spindle VFD (to control spindle speed),
and to switch on things like the lube pump before any axis motion, and
to switch it off if it has been sitting idle too long.
So -- if your rack mount chassis has filters for the air intake,
you can even swap in faster CPU boards and such at need.
It even has enough removable panels for I/O purposes to let me
get all four 50-pin ribbon connectors out from the Servo-to-Go board
(only one connector is on the card bracket, leaving three more to mount.
One is in a card slot next to the board, and the other two are in a long
narrow removable panel above the card brackets.
Enjoy,
DoN.
--
Email: <[email protected]> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
According to Gunner <[email protected]>:
> On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 18:04:51 GMT, "Pete C." <[email protected]> wrote:
[ ... ]
> >I worked on some CNC machines in a shop that machined graphite composite
> >molds and *everything* in their shop was sealed. Everything normally
> >open drip proof was sealed up, the control cabinets had A/C ducted in
> >and out and the cabinet doors were sealed with duct tape, etc. All the
> >even with a truly massive dust collection system that once sucked up a
> >1" micrometer that was placed near one of the collection hoses and
> >lifted it 20' to the ceiling and then 100'+ to the dust separator and
> >deposited it in the collection drums.
[ ... ]
> Did it pass calibration afterwards?
Depends -- did the hoses *run* past calibration? If so, then
it passed calibration at least once. :-)
Enjoy,
DoN.
--
Email: <[email protected]> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
According to Too_Many_Tools <[email protected]>:
> I normally would go to the various CNC sites but if you do you will
> find that they are deliberately vague about what computing power they
> actually need.
>
> In addition, I have the old computers NOW and many of them are rack
> mount systems that are very expensive to replace. Considering that they
> are setup for running in less than desirable environments, it would be
> a shame to toss them if they could be used in homebrew CNC setups.
Agreed!
> One thought I have is if the CPUs are not powerful enough, one could
> retrofit the cases with newer electronics....but first one needs to
> assess if the older electronics are insufficient for the CNC software
> that is popular today.
And that depends on the CNC package. I know that EMC (the free
one (from the NIST originally) which runs on a modified real-time linux
kernel will work with a slower CPU if you are driving servo motors with
a Servo-To-Go card than if you are driving steppers through parallel
ports. But -- if you have enough CPU -- who cares.
Check out http://www.linuxcnc.org -- you should still find
information on how fast a machine you need for what mode. You may have
to download the manual to find out for the new 2.0.0 and 2.0.1 versions.
> So has anyone done this analysis...with all the older computers out
> there I would expect this to be of interest to many people.
>
> Perhaps I should also ask what type of CPU power do you have in your
> shop? While my immedicate interest is in CNC, a computer has many uses
> in a shop environment.
At the moment -- the machine which is being set up as an
EMC-based controller for an old Bridgeport BOSS-3, being retrofitted to
servos,
And a cute little box from "Shuttle", which runs OpenBSD, with a
2.4 GHz Celeron. Not suitable as a controller, because it has only one
general purpose PCI slot, and one graphics card slot. It was made to
sell to gamers, but I picked it up as they were declaring them obsolete,
but I needed a nice small box to run a unix in the shop for general
purpose things such as running my "threads" program (to give information
for cutting threads, including converting the TPI to the pitch for
programming the ancient little Compact-5/CNC lathe (5" swing, runs on a
6502 CPU (if you want to talk about obsolete)) and to run programs for
saving and restoring programs (with comments on the unix side, even
though there is no provision for them on the CNC machine's side, so they
get stripped of as it is copied to the machine.
Both boxes are networked to the rest of my unix boxen so I can
transfer things around nicely.
Enjoy,
DoN.
--
Email: <[email protected]> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
According to Mark Rand <[email protected]>:
[ ... ]
> http://www.test-net.com/DSCN4817.JPG shows (bottom left) a rack mount server
> that I had in the garage running web sites for the wife, It's still there, but
> hasn't run for a while since I consolidated all of the web sites onto one
> machine in my new workshop. I have access to better rack mounting bits now
> (and better welding skills :).
I see that you also have a Sun 6-hole "Multipack" there. What
is it connected to? I'm running a full 12-holer on one of my Ultra-2
machines.
Enjoy,
DoN.
--
Email: <[email protected]> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
According to Mark Rand <[email protected]>:
> On 25 Jul 2006 05:48:38 GMT, [email protected] (DoN. Nichols) wrote:
[ ... ]
> > I see that you also have a Sun 6-hole "Multipack" there. What
> >is it connected to? I'm running a full 12-holer on one of my Ultra-2
> >machines.
[ ... ]
> At the time it was connected the virtual machine server at the bottom right. I
> was experimenting with giving all the web sites and the FTP server their own
> VMS to run on... windows or linux as required. It now lives in the workshop as
> a home to disk storage pools for the backup server. I'm running disk pools and
> offsite tape rather than onsite and offsite tape pools.
O.K. That sounds good -- given today's prices for disks vs
high-capacity tapes. :-)
> I've still got two lonely 6-hole packs at work and a couple of D1000 boxes.
O.K. I'll have to refresh my memory. I've got one which
started as one and ended as the other (A1000/D1000). It is currently in
JBOD mode rather than in serious RAID box. It may get turned into
software RAID with OpenBSD on one of my boxen.
But first, I need to get enough disks to properly populate it.
> we've almost given up on significant local storage now and are using SAN for
> nearly all data storage for servers... just took delivery of another 11TB of
> disk for the SAN. When we got out first 1GB disk we couldn't believe how big
> it was, we'd _never_ run our of space on that monster! (it is still running on
> the 33MHz 68020 HP machine that we got it for :-).
I remember how thrilled I was to be able to afford 1GB drives
for the Sun-3 machines I was running at the time. I still could see
needing more on the file server -- but not *that* much more. :-)
Now I'm looking towards resurrecting my Tektronix 6130, just to
be able to read a 5.25" floppy drive. :-) (I guess that I could do it
with one of the 3B1s instead, of course.
> I should have been in late at work tonight doing a network upgrade in the part
> of the factory that makes turbine blades. However Their boss got panicky about
> possible lost production and I got panicky about the fact that I could not
> remember how to interact with some of their older CNC controllers on the
> milling machines, so I called the exercise off. On mature reflection I
> realized that the controllers in question would not have even noticed the
> change from a flat network to a routed network with new IP addresses.... They
> are all DOS boxen talking NetBEUI to a local file server... They don't even
> know what TCP/IP is!
:-)
Panicky bosses tend to induce panic in others who normally would
know better. :-)
Enjoy,
DoN.
--
Email: <[email protected]> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 15:31:14 -0400, Spehro Pefhany
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 13:57:47 -0400, the renowned clare at snyder.on.ca
>wrote:
>
>>On 25 Jul 2006 07:33:51 -0700, "Too_Many_Tools"
>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>What speed of CPU will you be using?
>>>
>>>What type of backplane will the (passive?) motherboard be?
>>>
>>>Your efforts are similar to mine. One of the reasons why I am trying to
>>>go with a rack mount is the flexibility of the I/O....aka "lots of
>>>slots".
>>>
>>>Does anyone know when the switch from ISA to PCI for the motherboard
>>>occurred in relation to the evolution of the CPU (PI, PII, PIII,
>>>PIIII)?
>>>
>>Virtually all P1s had ISA.
>>Most P2 boards had at least 1 ISA.
>>Some P3 boards had 1 ISA,(very rare) and I have never seen an ISA on a
>>P4.
>
>They're around:
>http://www.ibase-i.com.tw/mb820pic.htm
>http://www.baber.com/baber/411/soyo_sy-p4i-845pe-isa.htm
>http://www.avantek.co.uk/acl/mobo/p4_isa.htm
>
>
>Best regards,
>Spehro Pefhany
So they DO exist. You'll have to admit they are not very common - and
I'll admit I have not seen everything. You know the saying - Just when
you think you've seen it all----
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
On 24 Jul 2006 12:42:56 -0700, "Too_Many_Tools"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>I normally would go to the various CNC sites but if you do you will
>find that they are deliberately vague about what computing power they
>actually need.
>
>In addition, I have the old computers NOW and many of them are rack
>mount systems that are very expensive to replace. Considering that they
>are setup for running in less than desirable environments, it would be
>a shame to toss them if they could be used in homebrew CNC setups.
>
>One thought I have is if the CPUs are not powerful enough, one could
>retrofit the cases with newer electronics....but first one needs to
>assess if the older electronics are insufficient for the CNC software
>that is popular today.
>
>So has anyone done this analysis...with all the older computers out
>there I would expect this to be of interest to many people.
>
>Perhaps I should also ask what type of CPU power do you have in your
>shop? While my immedicate interest is in CNC, a computer has many uses
>in a shop environment.
>
>TMT
>
>
>
>Nirodac wrote:
>> "Too_Many_Tools" <[email protected]> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>> > I have a number of older rackmounted computers that I would
>> > like to use for CNC usage.
>> >
>> > What are the requirements (CPU, MHz, HD size, video) that
>> > is needed for the popular types of software in use today?
>> >
>> > Does anyone use rack mounted computers? If so, how do you
>> > have them set up in your shop environment?
>> >
>> > Since I have a number of them, where should one draw the
>> > line as to what to keep and what to toss?
>> >
>> > Is there anything one should salvage from the old computers
>> > before one scraps them?
>> >
>> > Thanks
>> >
>> > TMT
>> >
>>
>> Why don't you go to your chosen CNC web site and see what
>> their software requires for CPU hardware. I think in this
>> case you may want to find the software first, then see what
>> will work on your hardware. Remember though, that you already
>> have "old" computer equipment, and that it will become
>> obsolete even faster than current equipment, meaning the next
>> update of your favourite CNC software may exceed the computers
>> ability to function.
>>
>> And very important, DO NOT use the computer in a non-clean
>> (dust free) enviroment, like your shop. The airflow through
>> the computer needs to be dust free.
==========================
You may just need to replace the motherboard, CPU and memory in
the existing rack mount enclosure. I would suggest getting the
exact model numbers of what you have and contacting a vendor that
specalizes in hardware upgrades. If you have a digital camera
photos may also help.
I have had good luck with Tiger Direct.
see
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/Category/category_tlc.asp?CatId=14
for example you can get an Intel D865GVHZL & Celeron D 340
2.93GHz processor for only only $79.99 after rebate and add 1 gig
of memory (2) each Ultra 512MB PC3200 @ $39.99 after rebate or
160$ total for an upgrade. You may want to upgrade your hard
drive and add a cd/dvd burner.
Generally a "do it yourself" job if you take it slow and don't
force anything.
What operating system(s) are you using?
Unka George
(George McDuffee)
There is something to be said for government by a great aristocracy
which has furnished leaders to the nation in peace and war for generations;
even a democrat like myself must admit this.
But there is absolutely nothing to be said for government by a plutocracy,
for government by men very powerful in certain lines and gifted with the "money touch,"
but with ideals which in their essence are merely those of so many glorified pawnbrokers.
Theodore Roosevelt (1858-1919), U.S. Republican (later Progressive) politician, president. Letter, 15 Nov. 1913.
Been in a machine shop lately? Contrary to popular belief, we gave up the
cold chisels and files some time ago. Our file server is a 386. It sits 6
feet away from a 10 horse vertical machining center. Been there since it was
new. Still works fine. Got two more, much more modern design, computers
sitting right next to it doing shop management duty. Many shops have PCs at
every machine for file transfer, editing, programming and DNC. Nothing
special just off the shelf PCs. When they got rid of the ball in the mouse,
that was a great thing. There are no exposed electrons in a PC. Fans take
the biggest hit.
"Nirodac" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> And very important, DO NOT use the computer in a non-clean
> (dust free) enviroment, like your shop. The airflow through
> the computer needs to be dust free.
>
On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 13:16:31 -0500, Louis Ohland <[email protected]>
wrote:
>You might look at the later IBM 75xx series, the 7585 and up. They have
>the ability to mount filters in them. They MIGHT get up into the P3
>range, but I'm not sure.
Those were PS/2 boxes and I doubt if any of them could even be hot
rodded up to a PII. Go over to comp.sys.ibm.ps2.hardware and ask
around. Those guys are still holding the flag on these machines and
they know more than IBM does these days.
In real life you could make a box to put your PC in with big filters
and a big fan if you think it is a problem. We are supposed to be
craftsmen ;-)
My garage PC/MP3 player is in a wood case but so are most of my
machines.
On 24 Jul 2006 12:42:56 -0700, "Too_Many_Tools"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>I normally would go to the various CNC sites but if you do you will
>find that they are deliberately vague about what computing power they
>actually need.
>
>In addition, I have the old computers NOW and many of them are rack
>mount systems that are very expensive to replace. Considering that they
>are setup for running in less than desirable environments, it would be
>a shame to toss them if they could be used in homebrew CNC setups.
>
>One thought I have is if the CPUs are not powerful enough, one could
>retrofit the cases with newer electronics....but first one needs to
>assess if the older electronics are insufficient for the CNC software
>that is popular today.
>
>So has anyone done this analysis...with all the older computers out
>there I would expect this to be of interest to many people.
>
>Perhaps I should also ask what type of CPU power do you have in your
>shop? While my immedicate interest is in CNC, a computer has many uses
>in a shop environment.
>
>TMT
>
>
Non Graphic (non windows) PC CNC runs fine on 286 processors in many
cases. Windows interface needs minimum 486, Win98 and XP or NT start
at the Pentium level.
>
>Nirodac wrote:
>> "Too_Many_Tools" <[email protected]> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>> > I have a number of older rackmounted computers that I would
>> > like to use for CNC usage.
>> >
>> > What are the requirements (CPU, MHz, HD size, video) that
>> > is needed for the popular types of software in use today?
>> >
>> > Does anyone use rack mounted computers? If so, how do you
>> > have them set up in your shop environment?
>> >
>> > Since I have a number of them, where should one draw the
>> > line as to what to keep and what to toss?
>> >
>> > Is there anything one should salvage from the old computers
>> > before one scraps them?
>> >
>> > Thanks
>> >
>> > TMT
>> >
>>
>> Why don't you go to your chosen CNC web site and see what
>> their software requires for CPU hardware. I think in this
>> case you may want to find the software first, then see what
>> will work on your hardware. Remember though, that you already
>> have "old" computer equipment, and that it will become
>> obsolete even faster than current equipment, meaning the next
>> update of your favourite CNC software may exceed the computers
>> ability to function.
>>
>> And very important, DO NOT use the computer in a non-clean
>> (dust free) enviroment, like your shop. The airflow through
>> the computer needs to be dust free.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 16:23:55 GMT, Nirodac <[email protected]> wrote:
>And very important, DO NOT use the computer in a non-clean
>(dust free) enviroment, like your shop. The airflow through
>the computer needs to be dust free.
Computers are a lot tougher than folks are led to believe. I doubt the
"dust" problem is any worse in your shop than it is under the average
computer user's desk.
I have 2 in cars (desktops, used as MP3 players) that start up in the
Florida heat and run fine. The MP3 PC in my garage/shop survived a
fire and it is still going fine.
If dust really bothers you, put some of that "cut and install" filter
material over the air intakes.
On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 18:04:51 GMT, "Pete C." <[email protected]> wrote:
>Roy Smith wrote:
>>
>> >>And very important, DO NOT use the computer in a non-clean
>> >>(dust free) enviroment, like your shop. The airflow through
>> >>the computer needs to be dust free.
>>
>> The biggest problem with dust in computers is that it blocks the
>> airflow and makes the machine overheat.
>
>That and depending on what you do in your shop (grinding, plasma
>cutting, machining graphite, etc.) you can have conductive dust that
>will short things out very quickly.
>
>I worked on some CNC machines in a shop that machined graphite composite
>molds and *everything* in their shop was sealed. Everything normally
>open drip proof was sealed up, the control cabinets had A/C ducted in
>and out and the cabinet doors were sealed with duct tape, etc. All the
>even with a truly massive dust collection system that once sucked up a
>1" micrometer that was placed near one of the collection hoses and
>lifted it 20' to the ceiling and then 100'+ to the dust separator and
>deposited it in the collection drums.
>
>Pete C.
Did it pass calibration afterwards?
<G>
Gunner
"I think this is because of your belief in biological Marxism.
As a genetic communist you feel that noticing behavioural
patterns relating to race would cause a conflict with your belief
in biological Marxism." Big Pete, famous Usenet Racist
On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 13:57:47 -0400, the renowned clare at snyder.on.ca
wrote:
>On 25 Jul 2006 07:33:51 -0700, "Too_Many_Tools"
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>What speed of CPU will you be using?
>>
>>What type of backplane will the (passive?) motherboard be?
>>
>>Your efforts are similar to mine. One of the reasons why I am trying to
>>go with a rack mount is the flexibility of the I/O....aka "lots of
>>slots".
>>
>>Does anyone know when the switch from ISA to PCI for the motherboard
>>occurred in relation to the evolution of the CPU (PI, PII, PIII,
>>PIIII)?
>>
>Virtually all P1s had ISA.
>Most P2 boards had at least 1 ISA.
>Some P3 boards had 1 ISA,(very rare) and I have never seen an ISA on a
>P4.
They're around:
http://www.ibase-i.com.tw/mb820pic.htm
http://www.baber.com/baber/411/soyo_sy-p4i-845pe-isa.htm
http://www.avantek.co.uk/acl/mobo/p4_isa.htm
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
[email protected] Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
On 25 Jul 2006 05:48:38 GMT, [email protected] (DoN. Nichols) wrote:
>According to Mark Rand <[email protected]>:
>
> [ ... ]
>
>> http://www.test-net.com/DSCN4817.JPG shows (bottom left) a rack mount server
>> that I had in the garage running web sites for the wife, It's still there, but
>> hasn't run for a while since I consolidated all of the web sites onto one
>> machine in my new workshop. I have access to better rack mounting bits now
>> (and better welding skills :).
>
> I see that you also have a Sun 6-hole "Multipack" there. What
>is it connected to? I'm running a full 12-holer on one of my Ultra-2
>machines.
>
> Enjoy,
> DoN.
At the time it was connected the virtual machine server at the bottom right. I
was experimenting with giving all the web sites and the FTP server their own
VMS to run on... windows or linux as required. It now lives in the workshop as
a home to disk storage pools for the backup server. I'm running disk pools and
offsite tape rather than onsite and offsite tape pools.
I've still got two lonely 6-hole packs at work and a couple of D1000 boxes.
we've almost given up on significant local storage now and are using SAN for
nearly all data storage for servers... just took delivery of another 11TB of
disk for the SAN. When we got out first 1GB disk we couldn't believe how big
it was, we'd _never_ run our of space on that monster! (it is still running on
the 33MHz 68020 HP machine that we got it for :-).
I should have been in late at work tonight doing a network upgrade in the part
of the factory that makes turbine blades. However Their boss got panicky about
possible lost production and I got panicky about the fact that I could not
remember how to interact with some of their older CNC controllers on the
milling machines, so I called the exercise off. On mature reflection I
realized that the controllers in question would not have even noticed the
change from a flat network to a routed network with new IP addresses.... They
are all DOS boxen talking NetBEUI to a local file server... They don't even
know what TCP/IP is!
Mark Rand
RTFM
On 24 Jul 2006 12:42:56 -0700, "Too_Many_Tools" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>I normally would go to the various CNC sites but if you do you will
>find that they are deliberately vague about what computing power they
>actually need.
>
>In addition, I have the old computers NOW and many of them are rack
>mount systems that are very expensive to replace. Considering that they
>are setup for running in less than desirable environments, it would be
>a shame to toss them if they could be used in homebrew CNC setups.
>
>One thought I have is if the CPUs are not powerful enough, one could
>retrofit the cases with newer electronics....but first one needs to
>assess if the older electronics are insufficient for the CNC software
>that is popular today.
>
>So has anyone done this analysis...with all the older computers out
>there I would expect this to be of interest to many people.
>
>Perhaps I should also ask what type of CPU power do you have in your
>shop? While my immedicate interest is in CNC, a computer has many uses
>in a shop environment.
>
>TMT
>
>
>
>Nirodac wrote:
>> "Too_Many_Tools" <[email protected]> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>> > I have a number of older rackmounted computers that I would
>> > like to use for CNC usage.
>> >
>> > What are the requirements (CPU, MHz, HD size, video) that
>> > is needed for the popular types of software in use today?
>> >
>> > Does anyone use rack mounted computers? If so, how do you
>> > have them set up in your shop environment?
>> >
>> > Since I have a number of them, where should one draw the
>> > line as to what to keep and what to toss?
>> >
>> > Is there anything one should salvage from the old computers
>> > before one scraps them?
>> >
>> > Thanks
>> >
>> > TMT
>> >
>>
>> Why don't you go to your chosen CNC web site and see what
>> their software requires for CPU hardware. I think in this
>> case you may want to find the software first, then see what
>> will work on your hardware. Remember though, that you already
>> have "old" computer equipment, and that it will become
>> obsolete even faster than current equipment, meaning the next
>> update of your favourite CNC software may exceed the computers
>> ability to function.
>>
>> And very important, DO NOT use the computer in a non-clean
>> (dust free) enviroment, like your shop. The airflow through
>> the computer needs to be dust free.
We have 60MHz Pentium controlling 16ft swing cnc lathes turning multi-million
dollar forgings. Does that count? :-)
Rack mounting may or may not be useful depending on how many computers you
want to use in the workshop. I currently have three in the workshop and will
probably replace them with two rack mounted units when I either "inherit" some
from work, or buy rack mount cases to put the guts of the existing ones into.
http://www.test-net.com/DSCN4817.JPG shows (bottom left) a rack mount server
that I had in the garage running web sites for the wife, It's still there, but
hasn't run for a while since I consolidated all of the web sites onto one
machine in my new workshop. I have access to better rack mounting bits now
(and better welding skills :).
Mark Rand
RTFM
On 24 Jul 2006 12:42:56 -0700, "Too_Many_Tools"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>I normally would go to the various CNC sites but if you do you will
>find that they are deliberately vague about what computing power they
>actually need.
When I looked it seems the version 1.x software is W/3.1 and up so
damn near anything should run it. The version 2.x is NT or XP only so
that pretty much gets you up into the PIII neighborhood, just to
support the bloated operating system.
I can't see why a 4.88 mz XT wouldn't be enough to run the machines
but the cartoon interface may be a power hog.
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 24 Jul 2006 12:42:56 -0700, "Too_Many_Tools"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>I normally would go to the various CNC sites but if you do you will
>>find that they are deliberately vague about what computing power they
>>actually need.
> When I looked it seems the version 1.x software is W/3.1 and up so
> damn near anything should run it. The version 2.x is NT or XP only so
> that pretty much gets you up into the PIII neighborhood, just to
> support the bloated operating system.
> I can't see why a 4.88 mz XT wouldn't be enough to run the machines
> but the cartoon interface may be a power hog.
One of the first CNC's I ran was a conversion of a hardinge chucker. It used
an old XT for a controller. Also used an EGA monitor with dual 5" drives. I
don't think it even had a hard drive. Operating system was in one drive and
programs in the other. It even cut threads.
They have an old green screen Okuma LC40 and it takes forever to boot up.
I think it's over 25 years old, so it can't be running very fast.
Richard W.