Wondering if I can do vacuum-press veneering on the cheap.... Has
anybody tried using this
http://www.harborfreight.com/air-vacuum-pump-with-r134a-and-r12-connector
s-96677.html
or something similar as the vacuum source? Any reasons why it wouldn't
do the job? (Other than the fact that it comes from Horrible Fright, of
course.)
Doug Miller wrote:
> Wondering if I can do vacuum-press veneering on the cheap.... Has
> anybody tried using this
>
> http://www.harborfreight.com/air-vacuum-pump-with-r134a-and-r12-connector
> s-96677.html
>
> or something similar as the vacuum source? Any reasons why it wouldn't
> do the job? (Other than the fact that it comes from Horrible Fright, of
> course.)
The kind that connects to a faucet works the same way, except uses
water flow instead of air flow (venturi principle). And quieter.
http://www.amazon.com/Nalgene-6140-0010-Aspirator-Polypropylene-Threading/dp/B003OBYNBO/ref=pd_sbs_indust_1
--
Gerald Ross
Confusion not only reigns, it pours
Hell, I paid $80 for a GAST two stage medical pump.
It can run 24x7. Got it on the internet a few years ago.
Hard to pay $50 for a manual pump....No bag ever holds a seal 100% so
you must have to pump regularly.
On 2/27/2012 3:56 PM, Pat Barber wrote:
> Also, the poor man's vacuum pump..
>
> http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=51167&cat=1,250,43298,43314,51167
>
>
>
> On 2/24/2012 5:07 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
>> Wondering if I can do vacuum-press veneering on the cheap.... Has
>> anybody tried using this
>>
>> http://www.harborfreight.com/air-vacuum-pump-with-r134a-and-r12-connector
>> s-96677.html
>>
>> or something similar as the vacuum source? Any reasons why it wouldn't
>> do the job? (Other than the fact that it comes from Horrible Fright, of
>> course.)
>
"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Wondering if I can do vacuum-press veneering on the cheap.... Has
> anybody tried using this
>
> http://www.harborfreight.com/air-vacuum-pump-with-r134a-and-r12-connector
> s-96677.html
>
> or something similar as the vacuum source? Any reasons why it wouldn't
> do the job? (Other than the fact that it comes from Horrible Fright, of
> course.)
Look in the yellow pages for someone who services or rebuilds small offset
duplicator printing presses. These presses use vane pumps to create a vacuum
to lift the paper into the press. Vane pumps last forever, a press can run
two shifts a day for 10 years on the same pump with little service. These
same pumps are also used for vacuum contact film duplication by printers and
for vacuum plate making, which is really the same as veneering. The pump
creates a vacuum between film and the printing plate and holds it until the
plate is "burned", 5 to 10 minutes. Used ones can be cheap if you shop
around. It will last forever if you keep the sawdust out of it.
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:cdce039b-8fd2-4173-accd-247916d72ea9@d17g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 24, 4:18 pm, "EXT" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> "Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> > Wondering if I can do vacuum-press veneering on the cheap.... Has
>> > anybody tried using this
>>
>> >http://www.harborfreight.com/air-vacuum-pump-with-r134a-and-r12-conne...
>> > s-96677.html
>>
>> > or something similar as the vacuum source? Any reasons why it wouldn't
>> > do the job? (Other than the fact that it comes from Horrible Fright, of
>> > course.)
>>
>> Look in the yellow pages for someone who services or rebuilds small
>> offset
>> duplicator printing presses. These presses use vane pumps to create a
>> vacuum
>> to lift the paper into the press. Vane pumps last forever, a press can
>> run
>> two shifts a day for 10 years on the same pump with little service. These
>> same pumps are also used for vacuum contact film duplication by printers
>> and
>> for vacuum plate making, which is really the same as veneering. The pump
>> creates a vacuum between film and the printing plate and holds it until
>> the
>> plate is "burned", 5 to 10 minutes. Used ones can be cheap if you shop
>> around. It will last forever if you keep the sawdust out of it.
>
> Vane pumps can move a lot of air quickly, but normally operate at
> medium vacuum. For veneering a couple of extra inches of mercury may
> be desirable.
I don't know what you mean by "medium" vacuum. Most of the pumps used in
small printing equipment will develop a vacuum of 20 inches of mercury, some
more, how much do you need? The one I have is made by Gast.
On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 09:08:39 -0500, "John Grossbohlin"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> "John Grossbohlin" <[email protected]> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>>>
>>> "Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>> Wondering if I can do vacuum-press veneering on the cheap.... Has
>>>> anybody tried using this
>>>>
>>>> http://www.harborfreight.com/air-vacuum-pump-with-r134a-and-r12-connector
>>>> s-96677.html
>>>>
>>>> or something similar as the vacuum source? Any reasons why it wouldn't
>>>> do the job? (Other than the fact that it comes from Horrible Fright, of
>>>> course.)
>>>
>>> The comments were telling.... a big compressor is needed seems to be a
>>> theme
>>
>> I already have a decent-sized 240V compressor, so that may not be too much
>> of an issue.
>>
>>> and I thought this somewhat negative one was amusing...
>>>
>>> "i bought this to replace compressor in a friends car so i wouldnt have
>>> to
>>> carry my $8000 snap o unit around. and wow...my girl friend can pull a
>>> deeper vacuum than this thing, even used a 60 gallon 2 stage compressor."
>>
>> I did see that comment. :-) Most of the other purchasers seemed reasonably
>> satisfied,
>> though.
>>>
>>> Perhaps this one...?
>>>
>>> http://www.harborfreight.com/two-stage-3-cfm-air-vacuum-pump-66466.html
>>
>> Saw that too. Didja see the difference in the price tags, though? ;-)
>>
>
>Yes... but you don't need the big compressor which may or may not be an
>issue for you. My PC compressor would never keep up but my father's big
>Ingersoll Rand (that came out of a meat packing plant) would. I'd need 3
>miles of hose though. ;~) That makes the self contained HF unit more
>attractive. I've been exploring options too and am taking cues from some of
>the wood turners I know. They have gotten rebuilt high-end vacuum pumps for
>use as vacuum chucks. Most of those guys are "cheap" but they are engineers
>so I think they probably over-researched things before settling on this
>solution. Some of them are vocal about being turners because they can get
>most of their wood for free. ;~)
>
>
>
>
>
>
If you are not going to use it a lot an old refrigerator pump will do
the job.
On Feb 24, 10:35=A0pm, "EXT" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:cdce039b-8fd2-4173-accd-247916d72ea9@d17g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 24, 4:18 pm, "EXT" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> "Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> >>news:[email protected]...
>
> >> > Wondering if I can do vacuum-press veneering on the cheap.... Has
> >> > anybody tried using this
>
> >> >http://www.harborfreight.com/air-vacuum-pump-with-r134a-and-r12-conne=
...
> >> > s-96677.html
>
> >> > or something similar as the vacuum source? Any reasons why it wouldn=
't
> >> > do the job? (Other than the fact that it comes from Horrible Fright,=
of
> >> > course.)
>
> >> Look in the yellow pages for someone who services or rebuilds small
> >> offset
> >> duplicator printing presses. These presses use vane pumps to create a
> >> vacuum
> >> to lift the paper into the press. Vane pumps last forever, a press can
> >> run
> >> two shifts a day for 10 years on the same pump with little service. Th=
ese
> >> same pumps are also used for vacuum contact film duplication by printe=
rs
> >> and
> >> for vacuum plate making, which is really the same as veneering. The pu=
mp
> >> creates a vacuum between film and the printing plate and holds it unti=
l
> >> the
> >> plate is "burned", 5 to 10 minutes. Used ones can be cheap if you shop
> >> around. It will last forever if you keep the sawdust out of it.
>
> > Vane pumps can move a lot of air quickly, but normally operate at
> > medium vacuum. For veneering a couple of extra inches of mercury may
> > be desirable.
>
> I don't know what you mean by "medium" vacuum. Most of the pumps used in
> small printing equipment will develop a vacuum of 20 inches of mercury, s=
ome
> more, how much do you need? The one I have is made by Gast.
Gast makes nice units. 'Medium', in my book, is about 22-24". The
unit , two-stage, from HF, pulls 27" (measured with 2 different
gauges). I call that a hard vacuum. Any more than that is not needed
when baging veneer. For hold-down, I like 27" or more.
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:8c9e37f8-9163-4b1b-8ab5-8985880471c5@eb6g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
On Feb 24, 10:16 am, "John Grossbohlin"
<[email protected]> wrote:
> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> > Good idea on the tank... I'd been wondering about the time needed to
> > empty a
>> large bag. This as I've been contemplating doing relatively large panels
>> to
> > use a huge pile of red oak veneer that I have sitting here... I was
>> concerned the glue would out race the pump but a tank would help
>> tremendously.
> Just be careful as glue likes to seep through veneer when you park
> thousands of pounds of virtual weight on your panels. A very common
> problem. Less is more when it comes to glue. One reason I buy the
> > paper-backed veneers (cheating).
> Joe at veneersupplies.com is a pretty straight shooter and handles
> questions well. Caveat: He sell DuraMax bags... the absolute best ,
> but pricey. He also sells the right adhesives. Good guy, but sells
> sells sellls.
I've had seepage experience... put waxed paper on things for one project to
stem unintentional sticking!
They *do* work for small projects (anything that will fit inside the
bag...). I've done several projects this way. I never got around to
cutting a valve out of a bag and using it for a bigger project. The
only problem is that the valve section needs to be on a flat area for
the valve to seal (it's a simple one-way flap valve). I've also used
a Mityvac hand punp (http://www.mityvac.com/), but it will make you
tired *quick*!
> When I saw an example of vacuum veneering in a book my first though was
> - this looks like those zip-lock vacuum bags. Why wouldn't they work?
> I mean tons of pressure is not needed - mostly even pressure. But those
> are just thoughts since I have never tried vacuum veneering.
>
> Mike
On Feb 24, 10:16=A0am, "John Grossbohlin"
<[email protected]> wrote:
> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:e814ec40-bd35-4c3e-bb19-756b2e1165fd@l16g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 24, 8:36 am, "John Grossbohlin"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > Perhaps this one...?
>
> > >http://www.harborfreight.com/two-stage-3-cfm-air-vacuum-pump-66466.htm=
l
> > That one I can vouch for as I have it used many times as a vacuum hold-
> > down for my CNC.
> > I also have two venturi units which such just as hard but don't
> > displace the volume one would need for bagging large items with fast-
> > setting adhesives.
> >http://www.veneersupplies.com/categories/Vacuum__Press__Items/Vacuum_...
> > is a great page for inspiration.
> > Bagging works best when one uses a plenum/surge tank of some capacity.
> > Those portable airtanks are a good fit. You suck the air out of it,
> > then open it up to the bag/hold-down and Bob'r your uncle.
> > To regulate cycling of the pump can get technically involved, =A0but al=
l
> > the info is there. I am pretty damned frugal when it comes to
> > equipment I don't plan to use much, but I couldn't get anything done
> > under $300.00.
> > The cheapest way to pull air for vacuum bagging is to buy a single
> > venturi; they're all over the intarwebs. Making your own venturi is a
> > snap if you have a wee little metal lathe.
>
> Good idea on the tank... I'd been wondering about the time needed to empt=
y a
> large bag. This as I've been contemplating doing relatively large panels =
to
> use a huge pile of red oak veneer that I have sitting here... I was
> concerned the glue would out race the pump but a tank would help
> tremendously.
>
> John
Just be careful as glue likes to seep through veneer when you park
thousands of pounds of virtual weight on your panels. A very common
problem. Less is more when it comes to glue. One reason I buy the
paper-backed veneers (cheating).
Joe at veneersupplies.com is a pretty straight shooter and handles
questions well. Caveat: He sell DuraMax bags... the absolute best ,
but pricey. He also sells the right adhesives. Good guy, but sells
sells sellls.
On Feb 24, 12:46=A0pm, Larry Jaques <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 06:39:40 -0800 (PST), Robatoy
>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >On Feb 24, 8:36=A0am, "John Grossbohlin"
> ><[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> Perhaps this one...?
>
> >>http://www.harborfreight.com/two-stage-3-cfm-air-vacuum-pump-66466.html
>
> >That one I can vouch for as I have it used many times as a vacuum hold-
> >down for my CNC.
>
> Is that your normal holddown method? =A0Wow, 25 microns is a superb
> unit. =A0We used to try to get at least 28 inches of mercury for auto
> air conditioning system pulldown after repairs. That's 49,000 microns.
> Most of the time, we'd get 29", but 28 was minimum, IIRC. It has been
> 30 years since I've done one.
29" is OuterSpace vacuum... or close to absolute? Maybe run a hose up
that high? My brain hurts.
My HF unit pulls 27" and you will NOT pull a 14 x 17 sign off the pod
with 27"Hg.
This is the unit:
http://www.harborfreight.com/two-stage-3-cfm-air-vacuum-pump-66466.html
Dunno whatTF the 25 micron spec is all about, but I DO get 27"Hg.
I paid just over a $100.00 and am very happy with it.
Projects bigger than that, I fabricate hold-downs or screw the work
down to the table directly.
When using SignFoam, the energies involved are low enough that the
'hold down' method is sometimes achieved with duct tape.
>
> >I also have two venturi units which such just as hard but don't
> >displace the volume one would need for bagging large items with fast-
> >setting adhesives.
http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=3D59743&cat=3D1,43838
Those work beautifully for smaller jobs, like soapstone carvings etc.
>
> Those seem like a complete waste of energy, air, and compressor life,
> not to mention that they're damned loud. I've only heard one once, a
> $10 HF job, and that was enough to dislike the whole concept.
>
Must be a different unit.
>
> --snip--www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=3Dintarweb
> Intentional misspelling for 'internet' usually used when making fun of
> people who are technologically impaired.
> --snip--
>
> Oh, that's what that means.
Smartypants.
"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Wondering if I can do vacuum-press veneering on the cheap.... Has
> anybody tried using this
>
> http://www.harborfreight.com/air-vacuum-pump-with-r134a-and-r12-connector
> s-96677.html
>
> or something similar as the vacuum source? Any reasons why it wouldn't
> do the job? (Other than the fact that it comes from Horrible Fright, of
> course.)
The comments were telling.... a big compressor is needed seems to be a theme
and I thought this somewhat negative one was amusing...
"i bought this to replace compressor in a friends car so i wouldnt have to
carry my $8000 snap o unit around. and wow...my girl friend can pull a
deeper vacuum than this thing, even used a 60 gallon 2 stage compressor."
Perhaps this one...?
http://www.harborfreight.com/two-stage-3-cfm-air-vacuum-pump-66466.html
"John Grossbohlin" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
>
> "Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Wondering if I can do vacuum-press veneering on the cheap.... Has
>> anybody tried using this
>>
>> http://www.harborfreight.com/air-vacuum-pump-with-r134a-and-r12-connector
>> s-96677.html
>>
>> or something similar as the vacuum source? Any reasons why it wouldn't
>> do the job? (Other than the fact that it comes from Horrible Fright, of
>> course.)
>
> The comments were telling.... a big compressor is needed seems to be a theme
I already have a decent-sized 240V compressor, so that may not be too much of an issue.
> and I thought this somewhat negative one was amusing...
>
> "i bought this to replace compressor in a friends car so i wouldnt have to
> carry my $8000 snap o unit around. and wow...my girl friend can pull a
> deeper vacuum than this thing, even used a 60 gallon 2 stage compressor."
I did see that comment. :-) Most of the other purchasers seemed reasonably satisfied,
though.
>
> Perhaps this one...?
>
> http://www.harborfreight.com/two-stage-3-cfm-air-vacuum-pump-66466.html
Saw that too. Didja see the difference in the price tags, though? ;-)
Gerald Ross <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> Doug Miller wrote:
>> Wondering if I can do vacuum-press veneering on the cheap.... Has
>> anybody tried using this
>>
>> http://www.harborfreight.com/air-vacuum-pump-with-r134a-and-r12-connector
>> s-96677.html
>>
>> or something similar as the vacuum source? Any reasons why it wouldn't
>> do the job? (Other than the fact that it comes from Horrible Fright, of
>> course.)
> The kind that connects to a faucet works the same way, except uses
> water flow instead of air flow (venturi principle). And quieter.
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Nalgene-6140-0010-Aspirator-Polypropylene-
Threading/dp/B003OBYNBO/ref=pd_sbs_indust_1
Interesting idea, but I think I'd prefer to keep water hoses out of the wood shop. :-)
"EXT" <[email protected]> wrote in news:4f485944$0$2609
[email protected]:
> I don't know what you mean by "medium" vacuum. Most of the pumps used in
> small printing equipment will develop a vacuum of 20 inches of mercury, some
> more, how much do you need? The one I have is made by Gast.
It does make some difference in the clamping force. A vacuum of 20 in Hg is only about 2/3
atmosphere, or about 10 psi pressure -- 28 in Hg is more like 0.94 atm, or about 13.8 psi.
[email protected] wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> On Sat, 25 Feb 2012 04:20:29 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>"EXT" <[email protected]> wrote in
>>news:4f485944$0$2609 [email protected]:
>>
>>> I don't know what you mean by "medium" vacuum. Most of the
>>> pumps used in small printing equipment will develop a vacuum
>>> of 20 inches of mercury, some more, how much do you need? The
>>> one I have is made by Gast.
>>
>>It does make some difference in the clamping force. A vacuum of
>>20 in Hg is only about 2/3 atmosphere, or about 10 psi pressure
>>-- 28 in Hg is more like 0.94 atm, or about 13.8 psi.
> 20 inches is still 144 lb/sq foot.
Your decimal point's in the wrong place. 10 psi = 1440 lb/sq ft.
>More than adequate to keep most
> veneer from curling.
I don't know enough about vacuum veneering to know whether that
makes a difference or not, I was just pointing out that there is a
substantial difference in pressure between 20 inches of vacuum,
and 28.
"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "John Grossbohlin" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>>
>> "Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> Wondering if I can do vacuum-press veneering on the cheap.... Has
>>> anybody tried using this
>>>
>>> http://www.harborfreight.com/air-vacuum-pump-with-r134a-and-r12-connector
>>> s-96677.html
>>>
>>> or something similar as the vacuum source? Any reasons why it wouldn't
>>> do the job? (Other than the fact that it comes from Horrible Fright, of
>>> course.)
>>
>> The comments were telling.... a big compressor is needed seems to be a
>> theme
>
> I already have a decent-sized 240V compressor, so that may not be too much
> of an issue.
>
>> and I thought this somewhat negative one was amusing...
>>
>> "i bought this to replace compressor in a friends car so i wouldnt have
>> to
>> carry my $8000 snap o unit around. and wow...my girl friend can pull a
>> deeper vacuum than this thing, even used a 60 gallon 2 stage compressor."
>
> I did see that comment. :-) Most of the other purchasers seemed reasonably
> satisfied,
> though.
>>
>> Perhaps this one...?
>>
>> http://www.harborfreight.com/two-stage-3-cfm-air-vacuum-pump-66466.html
>
> Saw that too. Didja see the difference in the price tags, though? ;-)
>
Yes... but you don't need the big compressor which may or may not be an
issue for you. My PC compressor would never keep up but my father's big
Ingersoll Rand (that came out of a meat packing plant) would. I'd need 3
miles of hose though. ;~) That makes the self contained HF unit more
attractive. I've been exploring options too and am taking cues from some of
the wood turners I know. They have gotten rebuilt high-end vacuum pumps for
use as vacuum chucks. Most of those guys are "cheap" but they are engineers
so I think they probably over-researched things before settling on this
solution. Some of them are vocal about being turners because they can get
most of their wood for free. ;~)
On Feb 24, 4:18=A0pm, "EXT" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > Wondering if I can do vacuum-press veneering on the cheap.... Has
> > anybody tried using this
>
> >http://www.harborfreight.com/air-vacuum-pump-with-r134a-and-r12-conne...
> > s-96677.html
>
> > or something similar as the vacuum source? Any reasons why it wouldn't
> > do the job? (Other than the fact that it comes from Horrible Fright, of
> > course.)
>
> Look in the yellow pages for someone who services or rebuilds small offse=
t
> duplicator printing presses. These presses use vane pumps to create a vac=
uum
> to lift the paper into the press. Vane pumps last forever, a press can ru=
n
> two shifts a day for 10 years on the same pump with little service. These
> same pumps are also used for vacuum contact film duplication by printers =
and
> for vacuum plate making, which is really the same as veneering. The pump
> creates a vacuum between film and the printing plate and holds it until t=
he
> plate is "burned", 5 to 10 minutes. Used ones can be cheap if you shop
> around. It will last forever if you keep the sawdust out of it.
Vane pumps can move a lot of air quickly, but normally operate at
medium vacuum. For veneering a couple of extra inches of mercury may
be desirable.
On Feb 24, 8:36=A0am, "John Grossbohlin"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Perhaps this one...?
>
> http://www.harborfreight.com/two-stage-3-cfm-air-vacuum-pump-66466.html
That one I can vouch for as I have it used many times as a vacuum hold-
down for my CNC.
I also have two venturi units which such just as hard but don't
displace the volume one would need for bagging large items with fast-
setting adhesives.
http://www.veneersupplies.com/categories/Vacuum__Press__Items/Vacuum__Press=
__Kits/
is a great page for inspiration.
Bagging works best when one uses a plenum/surge tank of some capacity.
Those portable airtanks are a good fit. You suck the air out of it,
then open it up to the bag/hold-down and Bob'r your uncle.
To regulate cycling of the pump can get technically involved, but all
the info is there. I am pretty damned frugal when it comes to
equipment I don't plan to use much, but I couldn't get anything done
under $300.00.
The cheapest way to pull air for vacuum bagging is to buy a single
venturi; they're all over the intarwebs. Making your own venturi is a
snap if you have a wee little metal lathe.
On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 06:39:40 -0800 (PST), Robatoy
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Feb 24, 8:36 am, "John Grossbohlin"
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>> Perhaps this one...?
>>
>> http://www.harborfreight.com/two-stage-3-cfm-air-vacuum-pump-66466.html
>
>That one I can vouch for as I have it used many times as a vacuum hold-
>down for my CNC.
Is that your normal holddown method? Wow, 25 microns is a superb
unit. We used to try to get at least 28 inches of mercury for auto
air conditioning system pulldown after repairs. That's 49,000 microns.
Most of the time, we'd get 29", but 28 was minimum, IIRC. It has been
30 years since I've done one.
>I also have two venturi units which such just as hard but don't
>displace the volume one would need for bagging large items with fast-
>setting adhesives.
Those seem like a complete waste of energy, air, and compressor life,
not to mention that they're damned loud. I've only heard one once, a
$10 HF job, and that was enough to dislike the whole concept.
>http://www.veneersupplies.com/categories/Vacuum__Press__Items/Vacuum__Press__Kits/
>is a great page for inspiration.
>Bagging works best when one uses a plenum/surge tank of some capacity.
>Those portable airtanks are a good fit. You suck the air out of it,
>then open it up to the bag/hold-down and Bob'r your uncle.
>To regulate cycling of the pump can get technically involved, but all
>the info is there. I am pretty damned frugal when it comes to
>equipment I don't plan to use much, but I couldn't get anything done
>under $300.00.
Air tanks for the bags sound like a great idea for quick control of a
sticky glueup.
>The cheapest way to pull air for vacuum bagging is to buy a single
>venturi; they're all over the intarwebs. Making your own venturi is a
>snap if you have a wee little metal lathe.
--snip--
www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=intarweb
Intentional misspelling for 'internet' usually used when making fun of
people who are technologically impaired.
--snip--
Oh, that's what that means.
--
Good ideas alter the power balance in relationships, that is why
good ideas are always initially resisted. Good ideas come with a
heavy burden. Which is why so few people have them. So few people
can handle it.
-- Hugh Macleod
Two things you need to know.
1 will this require the refrigerant as a lube.
2 how noisy is this. I have a 2 stage medical pump that I use. It's so
quite.
3 can it run full time. If not you can build a reservoir which will make
it more intermittent.
Good luck, seems like the right amount of pull.
On 2/24/2012 8:07 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
> Wondering if I can do vacuum-press veneering on the cheap.... Has
> anybody tried using this
>
> http://www.harborfreight.com/air-vacuum-pump-with-r134a-and-r12-connector
> s-96677.html
>
> or something similar as the vacuum source? Any reasons why it wouldn't
> do the job? (Other than the fact that it comes from Horrible Fright, of
> course.)
Sorry didn't see it was a venturi operated unit. That changes things.
On 2/24/2012 10:25 AM, tiredofspam wrote:
> Two things you need to know.
>
> 1 will this require the refrigerant as a lube.
> 2 how noisy is this. I have a 2 stage medical pump that I use. It's so
> quite.
> 3 can it run full time. If not you can build a reservoir which will make
> it more intermittent.
>
>
>
> Good luck, seems like the right amount of pull.
>
> On 2/24/2012 8:07 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
>> Wondering if I can do vacuum-press veneering on the cheap.... Has
>> anybody tried using this
>>
>> http://www.harborfreight.com/air-vacuum-pump-with-r134a-and-r12-connector
>> s-96677.html
>>
>> or something similar as the vacuum source? Any reasons why it wouldn't
>> do the job? (Other than the fact that it comes from Horrible Fright, of
>> course.)
On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 09:34:37 -0500, "parksfamily2 ------ ---- ---
gmail ----- ----- com" <"parksfamily2 ------ ---- --- gmail
----- ----- com"> wrote:
>Doug Miller wrote:
>> Wondering if I can do vacuum-press veneering on the cheap.... Has
>> anybody tried using this
>>
>> http://www.harborfreight.com/air-vacuum-pump-with-r134a-and-r12-connector
>> s-96677.html
>>
>> or something similar as the vacuum source? Any reasons why it wouldn't
>> do the job? (Other than the fact that it comes from Horrible Fright, of
>> course.)
>
>When I saw an example of vacuum veneering in a book my first though was
>- this looks like those zip-lock vacuum bags. Why wouldn't they work?
>I mean tons of pressure is not needed - mostly even pressure. But those
>are just thoughts since I have never tried vacuum veneering.
>
>Mike
For vacuum layup of fiberglass the guys use their shop-vac.
On Sat, 25 Feb 2012 04:20:29 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
<[email protected]> wrote:
>"EXT" <[email protected]> wrote in news:4f485944$0$2609
>[email protected]:
>
>> I don't know what you mean by "medium" vacuum. Most of the pumps used in
>> small printing equipment will develop a vacuum of 20 inches of mercury, some
>> more, how much do you need? The one I have is made by Gast.
>
>It does make some difference in the clamping force. A vacuum of 20 in Hg is only about 2/3
>atmosphere, or about 10 psi pressure -- 28 in Hg is more like 0.94 atm, or about 13.8 psi.
20 inches is still 144 lb/sq foot. More than adequate to keep most
veneer from curling. Too much vacuum forces all the glue out of the
joint (or draws it through the pores in woods like red oak - making
finishing difficult)
This guy used to hang out years ago. He ended up making a
real site out of veneering stuff.
http://www.joewoodworker.com/veneering/faq.htm
On 2/24/2012 5:07 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
> Wondering if I can do vacuum-press veneering on the cheap.... Has
> anybody tried using this
>
> http://www.harborfreight.com/air-vacuum-pump-with-r134a-and-r12-connector
> s-96677.html
>
> or something similar as the vacuum source? Any reasons why it wouldn't
> do the job? (Other than the fact that it comes from Horrible Fright, of
> course.)
Also, the poor man's vacuum pump..
http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=51167&cat=1,250,43298,43314,51167
On 2/24/2012 5:07 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
> Wondering if I can do vacuum-press veneering on the cheap.... Has
> anybody tried using this
>
> http://www.harborfreight.com/air-vacuum-pump-with-r134a-and-r12-connector
> s-96677.html
>
> or something similar as the vacuum source? Any reasons why it wouldn't
> do the job? (Other than the fact that it comes from Horrible Fright, of
> course.)
Doug Miller wrote:
> Wondering if I can do vacuum-press veneering on the cheap.... Has
> anybody tried using this
>
> http://www.harborfreight.com/air-vacuum-pump-with-r134a-and-r12-connector
> s-96677.html
>
> or something similar as the vacuum source? Any reasons why it wouldn't
> do the job? (Other than the fact that it comes from Horrible Fright, of
> course.)
When I saw an example of vacuum veneering in a book my first though was
- this looks like those zip-lock vacuum bags. Why wouldn't they work?
I mean tons of pressure is not needed - mostly even pressure. But those
are just thoughts since I have never tried vacuum veneering.
Mike
On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 22:35:38 -0500, "EXT"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:cdce039b-8fd2-4173-accd-247916d72ea9@d17g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
>> On Feb 24, 4:18 pm, "EXT" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> "Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>> > Wondering if I can do vacuum-press veneering on the cheap.... Has
>>> > anybody tried using this
>>>
>>> >http://www.harborfreight.com/air-vacuum-pump-with-r134a-and-r12-conne...
>>> > s-96677.html
>>>
>>> > or something similar as the vacuum source? Any reasons why it wouldn't
>>> > do the job? (Other than the fact that it comes from Horrible Fright, of
>>> > course.)
>>>
>>> Look in the yellow pages for someone who services or rebuilds small
>>> offset
>>> duplicator printing presses. These presses use vane pumps to create a
>>> vacuum
>>> to lift the paper into the press. Vane pumps last forever, a press can
>>> run
>>> two shifts a day for 10 years on the same pump with little service. These
>>> same pumps are also used for vacuum contact film duplication by printers
>>> and
>>> for vacuum plate making, which is really the same as veneering. The pump
>>> creates a vacuum between film and the printing plate and holds it until
>>> the
>>> plate is "burned", 5 to 10 minutes. Used ones can be cheap if you shop
>>> around. It will last forever if you keep the sawdust out of it.
>>
>> Vane pumps can move a lot of air quickly, but normally operate at
>> medium vacuum. For veneering a couple of extra inches of mercury may
>> be desirable.
>
>I don't know what you mean by "medium" vacuum. Most of the pumps used in
>small printing equipment will develop a vacuum of 20 inches of mercury, some
>more, how much do you need? The one I have is made by Gast.
>
>
15 inches is adequate for MOST veneer jobs. 6 inches does pretty good
for vacuum bagging fiber glass. A shop vac will produce 6 or 7 inches
on a good day. What about combining the shop vac to pull the bag down
quickly, then draw it down the rest of the way with a diaphragm pump
or a Gast type pump - or even an old refrigerator unit.
see: http://www.paragoncode.com/shop/vacuum_pump/
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:e814ec40-bd35-4c3e-bb19-756b2e1165fd@l16g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
On Feb 24, 8:36 am, "John Grossbohlin"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Perhaps this one...?
>
> > http://www.harborfreight.com/two-stage-3-cfm-air-vacuum-pump-66466.html
> That one I can vouch for as I have it used many times as a vacuum hold-
> down for my CNC.
> I also have two venturi units which such just as hard but don't
> displace the volume one would need for bagging large items with fast-
> setting adhesives.
> http://www.veneersupplies.com/categories/Vacuum__Press__Items/Vacuum__Press__Kits/
> is a great page for inspiration.
> Bagging works best when one uses a plenum/surge tank of some capacity.
> Those portable airtanks are a good fit. You suck the air out of it,
> then open it up to the bag/hold-down and Bob'r your uncle.
> To regulate cycling of the pump can get technically involved, but all
> the info is there. I am pretty damned frugal when it comes to
> equipment I don't plan to use much, but I couldn't get anything done
> under $300.00.
> The cheapest way to pull air for vacuum bagging is to buy a single
> venturi; they're all over the intarwebs. Making your own venturi is a
> snap if you have a wee little metal lathe.
Good idea on the tank... I'd been wondering about the time needed to empty a
large bag. This as I've been contemplating doing relatively large panels to
use a huge pile of red oak veneer that I have sitting here... I was
concerned the glue would out race the pump but a tank would help
tremendously.
John