Hello Folks,
Right off the bat: I am not at all a woodworking guru. But I've restored
lots of things and my wife and I love to keep old wooden furniture in
good shape.
On an old piece of furniture we see a brown molasses-like goo oozing out
of a corner joint. It's never done that before in the 15 years we had it
and it is a whole lot older than that. It's hardwood so an ancient
pocket of sap would be somewhat unlikely, but who knows. I guess we have
all heard about those cases where people saw a miracle in a wooden
statue crying blood and later it turned out it was something natural
going on in there. But what? Anyhow, I've got to fix this but need to
understand the cause. Google only showed lots of links to horror stories
and fiction books. Any idea how this phenomenon is called in the
technical world so I can use Google more efficiently on it?
--
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com
Ross Hebeisen wrote:
> i would have to think that it is pine or spuce or something like that
> rather than a hardwood. did you touch the ooze to see if it's sticky
> like sap?
I dug out the sheet we got with it. According to that it is a
hazelnut/beech/oak arrangement, not softwood. Comes from Europe, where
they did not use softwood much in furniture making. At least not before
Ikea ;-)
> i don't know of any hardwood that has pitch pockets that would bleed.
> vas est lose?
Das weiss ich auch nicht :-)))
Maybe it's the glue. But they certainly didn't use any two-compound
stuff back then. The goo has chew tobacco color.
--
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com
dpb wrote:
> Joerg wrote:
>
>> Ross Hebeisen wrote:
>>
>>> i would have to think that it is pine or spuce or something like that
>>> rather than a hardwood. did you touch the ooze to see if it's sticky
>>> like sap?
>>
>>
>>
>> I dug out the sheet we got with it. According to that it is a
>> hazelnut/beech/oak arrangement, not softwood. Comes from Europe, where
>> they did not use softwood much in furniture making. At least not
>> before Ikea ;-)
>>
>>
>>> i don't know of any hardwood that has pitch pockets that would bleed.
>>> vas est lose?
>>
>>
>>
>> Das weiss ich auch nicht :-)))
>>
>> Maybe it's the glue. But they certainly didn't use any two-compound
>> stuff back then. The goo has chew tobacco color.
>
>
> Could be just a pocket of old finish that got warmed to critical point,
> too. I noted in another post sun, maybe???
>
Yes, that could be. It's just strange that this stuff has not hardened
in two days. I can take it apart and clean it up, and I will, but I
wonder if it'll ooze again some time later.
--
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com
"Joerg" wrote
> Lee, Steve, thanks. It is actually a small hanging cabinet that houses a
> pendulum clock. I'll have to (carefully) remove the movement and all that
> to get to the back of it where it oozes. Not easy with this one because
> it's not exactly "service friendly". I guess because they didn't need a
> lot of service back then.
>
> No new heat sources there. It did warm to about 80F inside at times but
> that's nothing compared to the 90F we had in previous summers.
>
Replacing hide glue is a fairly common repair. I am not an expert, but even
I have done it a couple of times.
If in fact it is hide glue, it just may have reached the end of its service
life. This type of repair is well documented in many books and other
sources. Heat is often used to clean out the old joint and new hide glue is
often "injected" into the joint with a plastic syringe.
In any case, you will have to disassemble the unit to discover the source of
the "ooze". I am reasonably certain if you can get the source of this, it
will become reasonably apparent what is the problem. Take care of that,
make whatever necessary repairs, and you will be back in business.
dpb wrote:
> Lee Michaels wrote:
>
>> "steve robinson" wrote
>>
>>> Joerg wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello Folks,
>>>>
>>>> Right off the bat: I am not at all a woodworking guru. But I've
>>>> restored lots of things and my wife and I love to keep old wooden
>>>> furniture in good shape.
>>>>
>>>> On an old piece of furniture we see a brown molasses-like goo oozing
>>>> out of a corner joint. It's never done that before in the 15 years we
>>>> had it and it is a whole lot older than that. It's hardwood so an
>>>> ancient pocket of sap would be somewhat unlikely, but who knows. I
>>>> guess we have all heard about those cases where people saw a miracle
>>>> in a wooden statue crying blood and later it turned out it was
>>>> something natural going on in there. But what? Anyhow, I've got to
>>>> fix this but need to understand the cause. Google only showed lots of
>>>> links to horror stories and fiction books. Any idea how this
>>>> phenomenon is called in the technical world so I can use Google more
>>>> efficiently on it?
>>>
>>> Is the cabinet been moved near a heat source recently , what do you
>>> generally store in the cabinet
>>>
>> I think Steve is on the right track. A heat source of some kind could
>> melt the hide glue in the joint. Can you examine the joint closely
>> and see if any glue has moved out of the joint space?
>
>
> And, depending on where OP is located, perhaps it was moved to where sun
> is now hitting it where it hasn't previously? In the US w/ spring/early
> summer on us, ...
>
Nope, hanging on the same wall since moving here in 1997. Center of the
house, never sun-exposed.
--
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com
"steve robinson" wrote
> Joerg wrote:
>
>> Hello Folks,
>>
>> Right off the bat: I am not at all a woodworking guru. But I've
>> restored lots of things and my wife and I love to keep old wooden
>> furniture in good shape.
>>
>> On an old piece of furniture we see a brown molasses-like goo oozing
>> out of a corner joint. It's never done that before in the 15 years we
>> had it and it is a whole lot older than that. It's hardwood so an
>> ancient pocket of sap would be somewhat unlikely, but who knows. I
>> guess we have all heard about those cases where people saw a miracle
>> in a wooden statue crying blood and later it turned out it was
>> something natural going on in there. But what? Anyhow, I've got to
>> fix this but need to understand the cause. Google only showed lots of
>> links to horror stories and fiction books. Any idea how this
>> phenomenon is called in the technical world so I can use Google more
>> efficiently on it?
>
> Is the cabinet been moved near a heat source recently , what do you
> generally store in the cabinet
>
I think Steve is on the right track. A heat source of some kind could melt
the hide glue in the joint. Can you examine the joint closely and see if
any glue has moved out of the joint space?
Lee Michaels wrote:
> "Joerg" wrote
>
>
>>Lee, Steve, thanks. It is actually a small hanging cabinet that houses a
>>pendulum clock. I'll have to (carefully) remove the movement and all that
>>to get to the back of it where it oozes. Not easy with this one because
>>it's not exactly "service friendly". I guess because they didn't need a
>>lot of service back then.
>>
>>No new heat sources there. It did warm to about 80F inside at times but
>>that's nothing compared to the 90F we had in previous summers.
>>
>
> Replacing hide glue is a fairly common repair. I am not an expert, but even
> I have done it a couple of times.
>
> If in fact it is hide glue, it just may have reached the end of its service
> life. This type of repair is well documented in many books and other
> sources. Heat is often used to clean out the old joint and new hide glue is
> often "injected" into the joint with a plastic syringe.
>
That's the word I was looking for, hide glue. Didn't remember it because
I grew up with regular carpenter's glue. I did not know that hide glue
has an end-of-life once embedded in a joint. Oh man, maybe the whole
thing then will begin to disintegrate. That would not be cool.
Have to get a new syringe then, the other one is used for lubricants and
stuff. In the US you always get "the looks" when you ask for that at the
drugstore. Remember when we all refilled those HP Deskjet cartridges?
I think Titebond may still sell hide glue.
> In any case, you will have to disassemble the unit to discover the source of
> the "ooze". I am reasonably certain if you can get the source of this, it
> will become reasonably apparent what is the problem. Take care of that,
> make whatever necessary repairs, and you will be back in business.
>
Yep, I guess it's take-down and repair time now.
--
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com
Lee Michaels wrote:
> "steve robinson" wrote
>
>> Joerg wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Folks,
>>>
>>> Right off the bat: I am not at all a woodworking guru. But I've
>>> restored lots of things and my wife and I love to keep old wooden
>>> furniture in good shape.
>>>
>>> On an old piece of furniture we see a brown molasses-like goo oozing
>>> out of a corner joint. It's never done that before in the 15 years we
>>> had it and it is a whole lot older than that. It's hardwood so an
>>> ancient pocket of sap would be somewhat unlikely, but who knows. I
>>> guess we have all heard about those cases where people saw a miracle
>>> in a wooden statue crying blood and later it turned out it was
>>> something natural going on in there. But what? Anyhow, I've got to
>>> fix this but need to understand the cause. Google only showed lots of
>>> links to horror stories and fiction books. Any idea how this
>>> phenomenon is called in the technical world so I can use Google more
>>> efficiently on it?
>> Is the cabinet been moved near a heat source recently , what do you
>> generally store in the cabinet
>>
> I think Steve is on the right track. A heat source of some kind could melt
> the hide glue in the joint. Can you examine the joint closely and see if
> any glue has moved out of the joint space?
And, depending on where OP is located, perhaps it was moved to where sun
is now hitting it where it hasn't previously? In the US w/ spring/early
summer on us, ...
--
Joerg wrote:
> Ross Hebeisen wrote:
>
>> i would have to think that it is pine or spuce or something like that
>> rather than a hardwood. did you touch the ooze to see if it's sticky
>> like sap?
>
>
> I dug out the sheet we got with it. According to that it is a
> hazelnut/beech/oak arrangement, not softwood. Comes from Europe, where
> they did not use softwood much in furniture making. At least not before
> Ikea ;-)
>
>
>> i don't know of any hardwood that has pitch pockets that would bleed.
>> vas est lose?
>
>
> Das weiss ich auch nicht :-)))
>
> Maybe it's the glue. But they certainly didn't use any two-compound
> stuff back then. The goo has chew tobacco color.
Could be just a pocket of old finish that got warmed to critical point,
too. I noted in another post sun, maybe???
--
Joerg wrote:
> dpb wrote:
>
>> Joerg wrote:
>>
>>> Ross Hebeisen wrote:
>>>
>>>> i would have to think that it is pine or spuce or something like that
>>>> rather than a hardwood. did you touch the ooze to see if it's sticky
>>>> like sap?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I dug out the sheet we got with it. According to that it is a
>>> hazelnut/beech/oak arrangement, not softwood. Comes from Europe,
>>> where they did not use softwood much in furniture making. At least
>>> not before Ikea ;-)
>>>
>>>
>>>> i don't know of any hardwood that has pitch pockets that would bleed.
>>>> vas est lose?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Das weiss ich auch nicht :-)))
>>>
>>> Maybe it's the glue. But they certainly didn't use any two-compound
>>> stuff back then. The goo has chew tobacco color.
>>
>>
>> Could be just a pocket of old finish that got warmed to critical
>> point, too. I noted in another post sun, maybe???
>>
>
> Yes, that could be. It's just strange that this stuff has not hardened
> in two days. I can take it apart and clean it up, and I will, but I
> wonder if it'll ooze again some time later.
Well when you get access to it, you can try a few things to try to
identify what it is...
First take damp cloth and see if it appears water soluble at all, then
warm/hot water. If seems like so, the hide glue hypothesis is reasonable.
If not, try various solvents (again in moderation). Alcohol, mineral
spirits, etc., ... Depending on what you find w/ what, report back...
--
dpb wrote:
> Joerg wrote:
>
>> dpb wrote:
>>
>>> Joerg wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ross Hebeisen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> i would have to think that it is pine or spuce or something like that
>>>>> rather than a hardwood. did you touch the ooze to see if it's sticky
>>>>> like sap?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I dug out the sheet we got with it. According to that it is a
>>>> hazelnut/beech/oak arrangement, not softwood. Comes from Europe,
>>>> where they did not use softwood much in furniture making. At least
>>>> not before Ikea ;-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> i don't know of any hardwood that has pitch pockets that would bleed.
>>>>> vas est lose?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Das weiss ich auch nicht :-)))
>>>>
>>>> Maybe it's the glue. But they certainly didn't use any two-compound
>>>> stuff back then. The goo has chew tobacco color.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Could be just a pocket of old finish that got warmed to critical
>>> point, too. I noted in another post sun, maybe???
>>>
>>
>> Yes, that could be. It's just strange that this stuff has not hardened
>> in two days. I can take it apart and clean it up, and I will, but I
>> wonder if it'll ooze again some time later.
>
>
> Well when you get access to it, you can try a few things to try to
> identify what it is...
>
> First take damp cloth and see if it appears water soluble at all, then
> warm/hot water. If seems like so, the hide glue hypothesis is reasonable.
>
> If not, try various solvents (again in moderation). Alcohol, mineral
> spirits, etc., ... Depending on what you find w/ what, report back...
>
Ok, thanks for all the hints, will take it down then. Might have to be
tomorrow though.
--
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com
Lee Michaels wrote:
> "steve robinson" wrote
>
>
>>Joerg wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Hello Folks,
>>>
>>>Right off the bat: I am not at all a woodworking guru. But I've
>>>restored lots of things and my wife and I love to keep old wooden
>>>furniture in good shape.
>>>
>>>On an old piece of furniture we see a brown molasses-like goo oozing
>>>out of a corner joint. It's never done that before in the 15 years we
>>>had it and it is a whole lot older than that. It's hardwood so an
>>>ancient pocket of sap would be somewhat unlikely, but who knows. I
>>>guess we have all heard about those cases where people saw a miracle
>>>in a wooden statue crying blood and later it turned out it was
>>>something natural going on in there. But what? Anyhow, I've got to
>>>fix this but need to understand the cause. Google only showed lots of
>>>links to horror stories and fiction books. Any idea how this
>>>phenomenon is called in the technical world so I can use Google more
>>>efficiently on it?
>>
>>Is the cabinet been moved near a heat source recently , what do you
>>generally store in the cabinet
>>
>
> I think Steve is on the right track. A heat source of some kind could melt
> the hide glue in the joint. Can you examine the joint closely and see if
> any glue has moved out of the joint space?
>
>
Lee, Steve, thanks. It is actually a small hanging cabinet that houses a
pendulum clock. I'll have to (carefully) remove the movement and all
that to get to the back of it where it oozes. Not easy with this one
because it's not exactly "service friendly". I guess because they didn't
need a lot of service back then.
No new heat sources there. It did warm to about 80F inside at times but
that's nothing compared to the 90F we had in previous summers.
--
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com
Joerg wrote:
> Hello Folks,
>
> Right off the bat: I am not at all a woodworking guru. But I've
> restored lots of things and my wife and I love to keep old wooden
> furniture in good shape.
>
> On an old piece of furniture we see a brown molasses-like goo oozing
> out of a corner joint. It's never done that before in the 15 years we
> had it and it is a whole lot older than that. It's hardwood so an
> ancient pocket of sap would be somewhat unlikely, but who knows. I
> guess we have all heard about those cases where people saw a miracle
> in a wooden statue crying blood and later it turned out it was
> something natural going on in there. But what? Anyhow, I've got to
> fix this but need to understand the cause. Google only showed lots of
> links to horror stories and fiction books. Any idea how this
> phenomenon is called in the technical world so I can use Google more
> efficiently on it?
Is the cabinet been moved near a heat source recently , what do you
generally store in the cabinet
--