I have used MDF again to achieve a complicated layered octagon
picture frame. We made a unique MDF build up about 6 months ago
on a different project.
Raw MDF sucks up material and needs sealing. I wanted a super
smooth, high gloss paint finish that would look a bit like molded
plastic.
Frame one - about 2' x 4':
Wood working went quite well. Thought I grabbed the shellac based
sealer, but had the water based urethane. Proceeded with several
coats. Sanded to 220. Painted with Rustoleum high gloss black
spray cans. This paint says to recoat within 1 hour or wait 24.
After 24 hrs had a beautiful finish, but decided to give it a
light rub out and one more coat. Disaster - crinkled all the
coats extensively all over the frame. Sanded completely and
reperformed with outstanding success.
Frame two - 54" diameter octagon:
Made sure I had the shellac this time. Careful job of sanding all
edges, etc to 220.Multiple coats with sanding between coats again
to 220. Nice finish on full length pieces, then cut the octagon
sections, cut spline slots and biscuit work, glue and assemble.
Sand any and all imperfections with 3M superfine sanding pads.
Man this things looks good. Spray mist coat with Rustoleum High
Gloss spray can(s) and continued mist coating on a 30 minute
rotation until good color and finish on all surfaces ending with a
"full wet coat". Looked really good, but that high gloss sure
points out minute imperfections. Honest 24 hours. My partner
decided to give it one more light sanding - nice look and feel,
but without gloss. I wasn't there, but he shot one more coat and
we have a crinkled mess again. We will get this, but it sure is
frustrating.
Any help?
--
______________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)
[email protected]
On 10 Apr, 20:31, "DanG" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Raw MDF sucks up material and needs sealing. =A0I wanted a super
> smooth, high gloss paint finish that would look a bit like molded
> plastic.
Here in the UK we have an MDF-alternative called Valchromat. It was
widely used in the '80s for that Italian post-modernist furniture.
It's basically MDF, but with more resin than usual and with a coloured
dye. I use it in "slate grey" to make fake stonework frames that are
taken straight off the router and wax polished. If you're shellacing
it afterwards, it also builds very quickly to a film finish. I even
use it for woodturning - stack sewn rings into a small-mouth oval
bottle, turn and then lacquer (shellac or urushiol).
"DanG" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:i3%[email protected]...
>I have used MDF again to achieve a complicated layered octagon picture
>frame. We made a unique MDF build up about 6 months ago on a different
>project.
>
> Raw MDF sucks up material and needs sealing. I wanted a super smooth,
> high gloss paint finish that would look a bit like molded plastic.
>
> Frame one - about 2' x 4':
> Wood working went quite well. Thought I grabbed the shellac based sealer,
> but had the water based urethane. Proceeded with several coats. Sanded
> to 220. Painted with Rustoleum high gloss black spray cans. This paint
> says to recoat within 1 hour or wait 24. After 24 hrs had a beautiful
> finish, but decided to give it a light rub out and one more coat.
> Disaster - crinkled all the coats extensively all over the frame. Sanded
> completely and reperformed with outstanding success.
>
> Frame two - 54" diameter octagon:
> Made sure I had the shellac this time. Careful job of sanding all edges,
> etc to 220.Multiple coats with sanding between coats again to 220. Nice
> finish on full length pieces, then cut the octagon sections, cut spline
> slots and biscuit work, glue and assemble. Sand any and all imperfections
> with 3M superfine sanding pads. Man this things looks good. Spray mist
> coat with Rustoleum High Gloss spray can(s) and continued mist coating on
> a 30 minute rotation until good color and finish on all surfaces ending
> with a "full wet coat". Looked really good, but that high gloss sure
> points out minute imperfections. Honest 24 hours. My partner decided to
> give it one more light sanding - nice look and feel, but without gloss. I
> wasn't there, but he shot one more coat and we have a crinkled mess again.
> We will get this, but it sure is frustrating.
>
> Any help?
I suspect that if your initial coats are fine and your subsequent coats are
having problems I suspect that MDF is not your problem. More than likely
your surface is becoming contaminated between coats. And yes as with any
high gloss application imperfections do show up like a sore thumb even on
glass.
DanG wrote:
>
> Frame two - 54" diameter octagon:
> Made sure I had the shellac this time. Careful job of sanding all
> edges, etc to 220.Multiple coats with sanding between coats again
> to 220. Nice finish on full length pieces, then cut the octagon
> sections, cut spline slots and biscuit work, glue and assemble.
> Sand any and all imperfections with 3M superfine sanding pads.
> Man this things looks good. Spray mist coat with Rustoleum High
> Gloss spray can(s) and continued mist coating on a 30 minute
> rotation until good color and finish on all surfaces ending with a
> "full wet coat". Looked really good, but that high gloss sure
> points out minute imperfections. Honest 24 hours. My partner
> decided to give it one more light sanding - nice look and feel,
> but without gloss. I wasn't there, but he shot one more coat and
> we have a crinkled mess again. We will get this, but it sure is
> frustrating.
>
> Any help?
>
I had a similar problem with Rustoleum crinkling. In my case it was
because I didn't follow the instructions on the can. IIRC, you can
recoat withing something like the first 1/2 hour. After that you have
to wait several days or the previous coat will bubble up.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]
"DanG" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> Any help?
>
Rustoleum is funny stuff. It works well, but it is hard to apply. I have
used lots of it from the rattle cans myself. Standard rule I soon adopted
was to wait a minimum of two days between coats. I knew people who waited
even longer.
I have projects in metal that have been outside for over twenty years
without any rust.
There are so many elements to this. I suspect the humidity was
higher than needed - thus needing a longer dry time. Often shops
are not heated at night - and the humidity rises high at night and
drops during the day. If in a controlled atmosphere you would have
better luck.
Martin
dadiOH wrote:
> DanG wrote:
>> I have used MDF again to achieve a complicated layered octagon
>> picture frame. We made a unique MDF build up about 6 months ago
>> on a different project.
>>
>> Raw MDF sucks up material and needs sealing. I wanted a super
>> smooth, high gloss paint finish that would look a bit like molded
>> plastic.
>>
>> Frame one - about 2' x 4':
>> Wood working went quite well. Thought I grabbed the shellac based
>> sealer, but had the water based urethane. Proceeded with several
>> coats. Sanded to 220. Painted with Rustoleum high gloss black
>> spray cans. This paint says to recoat within 1 hour or wait 24.
>> After 24 hrs had a beautiful finish, but decided to give it a
>> light rub out and one more coat. Disaster - crinkled all the
>> coats extensively all over the frame. Sanded completely and
>> reperformed with outstanding success.
>>
>> Frame two - 54" diameter octagon:
>> Made sure I had the shellac this time. Careful job of sanding all
>> edges, etc to 220.Multiple coats with sanding between coats again
>> to 220. Nice finish on full length pieces, then cut the octagon
>> sections, cut spline slots and biscuit work, glue and assemble.
>> Sand any and all imperfections with 3M superfine sanding pads.
>> Man this things looks good. Spray mist coat with Rustoleum High
>> Gloss spray can(s) and continued mist coating on a 30 minute
>> rotation until good color and finish on all surfaces ending with a
>> "full wet coat". Looked really good, but that high gloss sure
>> points out minute imperfections. Honest 24 hours. My partner
>> decided to give it one more light sanding - nice look and feel,
>> but without gloss. I wasn't there, but he shot one more coat and
>> we have a crinkled mess again. We will get this, but it sure is
>> frustrating.
>>
>> Any help?
>
> Wait longer. *MUCH* longer. That or do all at once and forget that last
> coat or forget rattle cans.
>
> I've had exactly the same experience with rattle cans regardless of the
> manufacturer. Pretty much regardless of whatever they are spraying too
> except - I could be wrong - for flat paints.
>
"Tim Douglass" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>>>
> Even though they say to wait 24 hours they really mean a lot longer.
> The 24 hour number is under optimal conditions with only one light
> coat drying. You may have to wait as much as a week or more before
> recoating (sand lightly or it won't stick). The trick is that *all*
> the solvent from the previous coats has to have evaporated so the
> cross-linking can complete. After that you are good to go. I have had
> trouble even after a week if it is a bit cold or if I put down several
> coats initially.
I agree. I make some stuff from MDF once in a while. I came to the
conclusion that the first coat of finish paint is sacrificial. Paint it,
wait a week, sand it smooth, then give it a finsh coat and it will turn out
great.
Greg
On Sat, 10 Apr 2010 22:16:46 -0500, "Greg O" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"Tim Douglass" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>>>
>> Even though they say to wait 24 hours they really mean a lot longer.
>> The 24 hour number is under optimal conditions with only one light
>> coat drying. You may have to wait as much as a week or more before
>> recoating (sand lightly or it won't stick). The trick is that *all*
>> the solvent from the previous coats has to have evaporated so the
>> cross-linking can complete. After that you are good to go. I have had
>> trouble even after a week if it is a bit cold or if I put down several
>> coats initially.
>
>
>I agree. I make some stuff from MDF once in a while. I came to the
>conclusion that the first coat of finish paint is sacrificial. Paint it,
>wait a week, sand it smooth, then give it a finsh coat and it will turn out
>great.
>Greg
In this case the problem is not the MDF, but the paint. I've tried
sealing MDF with shellac with fair to middlin' results.
--
"We need to make a sacrifice to the gods, find me a young virgin... oh, and bring something to kill"
Tim Douglass
http://www.DouglassClan.com
On Sat, 10 Apr 2010 14:22:52 -0400, "Lee Michaels"
<leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>"DanG" <[email protected]> wrote
>>
>> Any help?
>>
>Rustoleum is funny stuff. It works well, but it is hard to apply. I have
>used lots of it from the rattle cans myself. Standard rule I soon adopted
>was to wait a minimum of two days between coats. I knew people who waited
>even longer.
>
>I have projects in metal that have been outside for over twenty years
>without any rust.
>
>
Even though they say to wait 24 hours they really mean a lot longer.
The 24 hour number is under optimal conditions with only one light
coat drying. You may have to wait as much as a week or more before
recoating (sand lightly or it won't stick). The trick is that *all*
the solvent from the previous coats has to have evaporated so the
cross-linking can complete. After that you are good to go. I have had
trouble even after a week if it is a bit cold or if I put down several
coats initially.
--
"We need to make a sacrifice to the gods, find me a young virgin... oh, and bring something to kill"
Tim Douglass
http://www.DouglassClan.com
DanG wrote:
> I have used MDF again to achieve a complicated layered octagon
> picture frame. We made a unique MDF build up about 6 months ago
> on a different project.
>
> Raw MDF sucks up material and needs sealing. I wanted a super
> smooth, high gloss paint finish that would look a bit like molded
> plastic.
>
> Frame one - about 2' x 4':
> Wood working went quite well. Thought I grabbed the shellac based
> sealer, but had the water based urethane. Proceeded with several
> coats. Sanded to 220. Painted with Rustoleum high gloss black
> spray cans. This paint says to recoat within 1 hour or wait 24.
> After 24 hrs had a beautiful finish, but decided to give it a
> light rub out and one more coat. Disaster - crinkled all the
> coats extensively all over the frame. Sanded completely and
> reperformed with outstanding success.
>
> Frame two - 54" diameter octagon:
> Made sure I had the shellac this time. Careful job of sanding all
> edges, etc to 220.Multiple coats with sanding between coats again
> to 220. Nice finish on full length pieces, then cut the octagon
> sections, cut spline slots and biscuit work, glue and assemble.
> Sand any and all imperfections with 3M superfine sanding pads.
> Man this things looks good. Spray mist coat with Rustoleum High
> Gloss spray can(s) and continued mist coating on a 30 minute
> rotation until good color and finish on all surfaces ending with a
> "full wet coat". Looked really good, but that high gloss sure
> points out minute imperfections. Honest 24 hours. My partner
> decided to give it one more light sanding - nice look and feel,
> but without gloss. I wasn't there, but he shot one more coat and
> we have a crinkled mess again. We will get this, but it sure is
> frustrating.
>
> Any help?
Wait longer. *MUCH* longer. That or do all at once and forget that last
coat or forget rattle cans.
I've had exactly the same experience with rattle cans regardless of the
manufacturer. Pretty much regardless of whatever they are spraying too
except - I could be wrong - for flat paints.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
>Rustoleum is funny stuff. It works well, but it is hard to apply. I have
>used lots of it from the rattle cans myself. Standard rule I soon adopted
>was to wait a minimum of two days between coats. I knew people who waited
>even longer.
>
>I have projects in metal that have been outside for over twenty years
>without any rust.
>Lee Michaels
I used some last year on two laptop tables. Took me a few weeks with
the humidity and dust to get them right and I still wasn't completely
happy with the last one. Had the most trouble with the clear coat
showing dust. After a couple of weeks and 4-6 very light clear coats,
they finally looked good and have been holding up to daily use well.
`Casper
"DanG" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:i3%[email protected]...
>I have used MDF again to achieve a complicated layered octagon picture
>frame. We made a unique MDF build up about 6 months ago on a different
>project.
>
> Raw MDF sucks up material and needs sealing. I wanted a super smooth,
> high gloss paint finish that would look a bit like molded plastic.
>
> Frame one - about 2' x 4':
> Wood working went quite well. Thought I grabbed the shellac based sealer,
> but had the water based urethane. Proceeded with several coats. Sanded
> to 220. Painted with Rustoleum high gloss black spray cans. This paint
> says to recoat within 1 hour or wait 24. After 24 hrs had a beautiful
> finish, but decided to give it a light rub out and one more coat.
> Disaster - crinkled all the coats extensively all over the frame. Sanded
> completely and reperformed with outstanding success.
>
> Frame two - 54" diameter octagon:
> Made sure I had the shellac this time. Careful job of sanding all edges,
> etc to 220.Multiple coats with sanding between coats again to 220. Nice
> finish on full length pieces, then cut the octagon sections, cut spline
> slots and biscuit work, glue and assemble. Sand any and all imperfections
> with 3M superfine sanding pads. Man this things looks good. Spray mist
> coat with Rustoleum High Gloss spray can(s) and continued mist coating on
> a 30 minute rotation until good color and finish on all surfaces ending
> with a "full wet coat". Looked really good, but that high gloss sure
> points out minute imperfections. Honest 24 hours. My partner decided to
> give it one more light sanding - nice look and feel, but without gloss. I
> wasn't there, but he shot one more coat and we have a crinkled mess again.
> We will get this, but it sure is frustrating.
>
> Any help?
>
> --
> ______________________________
> Keep the whole world singing . . . .
> DanG (remove the sevens)
> [email protected]
>
>
> I use sanding sealer (mineral type not lacquer type) on MDF. Coat, sand,
> coat, sand until a smooth hard finish. I only buy Krylon brand cans as I
> never had a problem with them. WW
>
>