Domino Bathroom Drawers

On 3/2/2011 1:27 PM, dpb wrote:
> On 2/23/2011 1:55 PM, Swingman wrote:
>> On 2/23/2011 12:23 PM, SonomaProducts.com wrote:
>>
> ...
>
>> ~ Background: All these kitchen drawers are 3/4" hard maple, half blind
>> dovetails, with 1/2" A-1 maple ply bottoms mounted on KV MUV34
>> Undermount slides ...
>>
>> <as you know, doing this kind of work, the drawer slides themselves are
>> the 'tail that wags the dog' as far as drawer dimensions, their design,
>> and very often, the type of joinery that must be used>
>>
>> ... with the exception of one drawer:
>>
>> In the kitchen, a special, shallow kitchen KNIFE drawer was made in a
>> similar fashion as first above because the drawer depth was simply too
>> shallow for half blind dovetails with undermount drawer slides and a
>> 1/2" bottom.
> ...
>
> One more side question...
>
> I had in mind in the retrofit here to use undermount slides as well
> until I realized the same problem of they simply require to much lost
> space for the space available and number of drawers that are too few
> already (and there's not an option to make the kitchen larger here).
>
> So, I've been looking for an alternate better than the corner-mounted
> rollers and center track that Dad used that can still get fit in (I
> built the cabinets and drawer boxes for folks some 30 year ago in a
> quick trip home and left the door-hanging, drawer mounting and finishing
> to him after went back home). Now they're getting old and I'm remaking
> doors and drawer fronts and going to refinish the faces.
>
> The drawer boxes are 7/16" oak w/ 1/4" bottoms an approximate 3/8" space
> from bottom of bottom to bottom of side. The pretty well fit the opening
> on sides. Not sure, may not have much choice other than fit center
> tracks/rails w/ a UHMW glide.
>
> Have you run across anything that might be a suitable selection? As
> noted, I hate to think of making the drawers themselves any smaller than
> they already are; I was planning on cutting off the existing fronts and
> cut the tails in place and go inset instead of overlay for both drawer
> fronts and doors.

Sorry ... I've been making sure that this post remained as "unread"
until I had time to reply.

I agree with Leon. Having built hundreds of drawers that were spec'ed
for under mount hardware, I've been unable to find a centermount
solution that would work in the kind of drawers you would want to use in
a kitchen.

I have used single, centermount underdrawer slides for smaller drawers
in desks and chests, but still ending up being forced to support the
drawer sides with some type of support, like UHMW strips. These would
not be practical in a kitchen, IMO

I've also seen another practice that works, but that I don't necessarily
buy into, and that is using 3/4 extension side mount slides, mounted
horizontally under the drawers instead of on the sides.

As long as you use a heavy duty slide that far exceeds the expected
drawer load you may get away with it. But, the slide mechanism itself is
not designed for a load in that direction and I'm of the opinion that
they won't last long when used in such a contraindicated manner.

As you already know, undermount drawer slides are very picky about
drawer dimensions and the drawers must be built within a narrow range of
the specified dimensions to work at all.

I've never seen a case where an existing drawer could be retrofitted to
accept today's undermount slides ... but you could always get lucky,
and, IMO, that's what it would take.

Basically ... what Leon said.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Feb 23, 12:58=A0pm, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:

Very nice look IMHO. I do dovetails with 1/2" BB and it looks good and
it's real strong but you get tired of that same 'ol same 'ol. I seen a
guy do 3/8" square mortises in drawer sides w/walnut pegs and maple
sides and that looked good too. He just bought the mortiser and wanted
to put 'er to use right now...

RP

> There is indeed a drawer front, but it does not cover the domino "pegs"
> in the drawer _sides_, as the "pegs' are specifically there to provide
> provide _both_ mechanical strength to the rabbet joint, and a visual
> contrast ... see below.

Oops, I mis-read the photos. I thought the side sot where you can see
the back and front loose tenon ends was a shot across the front face.

Now I like this 100%.

For this situation I won't start my rany about unpinned floating
tennos being not the same as true pinned M&T ;^)

On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 20:13:52 -0800, Larry Jaques
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 15:15:09 -0800 (PST), Robatoy
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On Feb 23, 12:58 pm, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Swingman and I have been working on a lengthy kitchen remodel and my portion
>>> spilled over into the bathrooms remodel also.  I built the drawers, so far
>>> 23  for 3 bathroom counters.  I wish my bath rooms had 23 drawers.
>>> And of course, 6 different sizes.  ;~)
>>>
>>> 3/4" maple with 1/2" maple plywood bottoms,  Rabbet corner joints reinforced
>>> with 6mm thick dominos.  Strong!
>>>
>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/5471114935/#/photos/lcb11211/54...
>>>
>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/5471114935/#/photos/lcb11211/54...
>>>
>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/5471114935/#/photos/lcb11211/54...
>>>
>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/5471114935/#/photos/lcb11211/54...
>>
>>MMmmmmm... now I REALLY want a Domino.
>>Very nice result visually and it must be strong too.
>
>That set of pics even stirred MY crowbars, it did.

Jesus H. Christ! I just saw the festerclucking price they want for it.

I guess I'll stick with my $37 HF bisquicker. Time to add that thrust
washer and tighten up the height...

--
"Human nature itself is evermore an advocate for liberty.
There is also in human nature a resentment of injury, and
indignation against wrong. A love of truth and a veneration
of virtue. These amiable passions, are the latent spark. If
the people are capable of understanding, seeing and feeling
the differences between true and false, right and wrong,
virtue and vice, to what better principle can the friends of
mankind apply than to the sense of this difference?"
--John Adams

On 2/23/2011 12:23 PM, SonomaProducts.com wrote:

>> 3/4" maple with 1/2" maple plywood bottoms, Rabbet corner joints reinforced
>> with 6mm thick dominos. Strong!
>
> Nicely done.
>
> I guess you wanted to hide them behind the drawer face at the front
> but they don't add any mechanical strength to the front in that
> configuration.

There is indeed a drawer front, but it does not cover the domino "pegs"
in the drawer _sides_, as the "pegs' are specifically there to provide
provide _both_ mechanical strength to the rabbet joint, and a visual
contrast ... see below.

This is surely no problem for a bathroom drawer but a
> large kitchen drawer that could get really loaded could use some extra
> mechanical strength to last through the years... don't you think?

In the designed configuration as above, the domino "pegs" do indeed
mechanically reinforce the rabbet joint, tremendously so.

But you're correct, I would not normally design/use this type of joinery
in the typical kitchen drawer.

~ Background: All these kitchen drawers are 3/4" hard maple, half blind
dovetails, with 1/2" A-1 maple ply bottoms mounted on KV MUV34
Undermount slides ...

<as you know, doing this kind of work, the drawer slides themselves are
the 'tail that wags the dog' as far as drawer dimensions, their design,
and very often, the type of joinery that must be used>

... with the exception of one drawer:

In the kitchen, a special, shallow kitchen KNIFE drawer was made in a
similar fashion as first above because the drawer depth was simply too
shallow for half blind dovetails with undermount drawer slides and a
1/2" bottom.

~ Upshot: The client love the visible domino "pegs" in the rabbet joints
on the KNIFE drawer so much that she wanted all 23 of her bathroom
drawers made that way.

(So happens "Beech" domino end grain closely matches the end grain of
the hard maple half blind dovetails when finished with a clear lacquer
... whodathunkit?.)

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Larry Jaques" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> Jesus H. Christ! I just saw the festerclucking price they want for it.
>
> I guess I'll stick with my $37 HF bisquicker. Time to add that thrust
> washer and tighten up the height...

On the off chance you change your mind and are going to buy sooner than
later, Festool is raising their prices March 1, 2011. I haven't looked
specifically to see if the Domino tool itself is going to go up in price
since I already own one, but I'd say it was a safe bet.

And keep one specific fact in mind should you (or when) you become a Festool
owner, all of their tools are designed with superb dust collection in mind.
Doesn't matter if it's a power saw, router or sander, dust collection is
outstanding.

"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> IMHO its a six of one half a dozen of the other think concerning strength
>> and personal appearance preferences.
>
> Except that the Domino method is much less subject to error in my opinion.
>

True, HOWEVER I mark the mortise locations and use the center mark on the
fence to locate the Domino mortiser. I For aesthetic reasons I don't use
the indexing pins on the Domino. I basically use it like a plate joiner in
that regard. If the Domino slips you end up with an elongated hole. You
have to be careful to hold it stationary through the whole cut.

"RP" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:122f1d27-8225-4d22-98b4-4e8057e6c5f2@y30g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On Feb 23, 12:58 pm, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:

Very nice look IMHO. I do dovetails with 1/2" BB and it looks good and
it's real strong but you get tired of that same 'ol same 'ol. I seen a
guy do 3/8" square mortises in drawer sides w/walnut pegs and maple
sides and that looked good too. He just bought the mortiser and wanted
to put 'er to use right now...

RP

That does sound nice. I would think that because the Domino works much like
a plate joiner that it would be easer to use than a traditional mortiser for
this application.

Thank you BTY

On Feb 27, 5:12=A0pm, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 2/27/2011 3:52 PM, Leon wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Swingman"<[email protected]> =A0wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> >> On 2/27/2011 2:39 PM, Robatoy wrote:
>
> >>> My solution, some 25+ years ago was, in one word, Metabox.
> >>> <G>
> >>> Of course, there aren't any in my house.....
>
> >>> IMNSHO, I prefer the look of those domino drawers over the ol'
> >>> dovetails. By quite a margin.
>
> >> Do have a mutilator, eerr Multi-Router to fall back on, but the set up=
and
> >> extra cost of the inserts is not cost effective enough for my liking.
>
> >> Yeah ... I like them myself. If this particular client had seen them
> >> first, Leon could have made all the damn drawers (close to 50 and risi=
ng
> >> at last count), which would have suited me just fine.
>
> > Not sure my stomach could'a stomached 50 if'n you know what I mean. =A0=
;~)
> > Darn twisty wood.
>
> Whew!! You musta gotten all the branch wood. :)
>
> --www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 4/15/2010
> KarlC@ (the obvious)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Them there trees that grow on the side of a hill.

On 2/27/2011 10:06 AM, dpb wrote:
> On 2/27/2011 9:57 AM, Leon wrote:
> ...
>> Fixed spacing is not absolutely a bad thing when it comes to consistent
>> results. Swingman has lately been having problems with the fingers
>> slipping
>> and getting inconsistent fit results. I use the Leigh jig also however
>> have
>> not yet seen any problems. IMHO an adjustable finger jig with something
>> more than a friction fit to hold the fingers would be a plus, thinking
>> the
>> Akeda, or something like the Akeda.
>
> Indeed, I've heard that complaint before on the Leigh (maybe a
> conversation here w/ Swingman, who knows/remembers?).
>
> I'm limited in this application to pre-ordained drawer heights and they
> don't fit the jig spacing well for most if not all so it's either get
> something else ready built or build jigs specifically for the runs (or,
> of course, cut them by hand which ain't bad except for the numbers :( :) ).
>
> I'd kinda' forgotten the Akeda--seems like maybe PC has introduced
> something not too long ago, as well I think???
>
> I've been on the barn and other big stuff so long I've not done anything
> smallish scale in number of years now...this has been pushed off for
> almost 10 yrs now...before spring planting season I'm determined to get
> at least going on it ('course, I've said that before, too! :) ).

My old Leigh D4 has been an excellent small shop production tool, but it
has been used to build more drawers and cabinets than many will ever
have to face, and the inherent problems with the design have become
magnified in the both the hard usage, and the process.

charlieb, here on the wRec has an excellent treatise on his website on
the inherent design problems with the various types of dovetail jigs
that will be well worth your time to DAGS)

Bottom line is that I would have already bought the Akeda (based in no
small part on charlieb's review) had it been available on this last job,
but its production/availability seems to be sporadic last time I checked
and none were to be had at any price.

Hope that has changed, or will change, because it looks like the way to
go for the current "state of the art" of adjustable spacing dovetail jigs.

<unfortunately there is absolutely NO financial feasibility in doing
small shop production runs by hand, regardless of the desirability of
doing so>

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> (So happens "Beech" domino end grain closely matches the end grain of
> the hard maple half blind dovetails when finished with a clear lacquer
> ... whodathunkit?.)
>
Isn't "Beech" and maple from two different neighborhoods? ;-)

"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

>
> On the off chance you change your mind and are going to buy sooner
> than later, Festool is raising their prices March 1, 2011. I haven't
> looked specifically to see if the Domino tool itself is going to go up
> in price since I already own one, but I'd say it was a safe bet.
>
> And keep one specific fact in mind should you (or when) you become a
> Festool owner, all of their tools are designed with superb dust
> collection in mind. Doesn't matter if it's a power saw, router or
> sander, dust collection is outstanding.
>

Ok, you guys convinced me. Saved about the equivalent to sales tax by
buying now...

Here's the listing of price increases. Some of the tool/vacuum kits are
actually going down in price.
http://www.mcfeelys.com/info/festool-alert3.htm

Puckdropper

On Feb 24, 12:53=A0pm, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 2/24/11 10:15 AM, Leon wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Larry Jaques"<[email protected]> =A0wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> > Snip
>
> > /#/photos/lcb11211/54...
>
> >>>> MMmmmmm... now I REALLY want a Domino.
> >>>> Very nice result visually and it must be strong too.
>
> >>> That set of pics even stirred MY crowbars, it did.
>
> >> Jesus H. Christ! I just saw the festerclucking price they want for it.
>
> >> I guess I'll stick with my $37 HF bisquicker. Time to add that thrust
> >> washer and tighten up the height...
>
> > Everything is relative, =A0that single drawer job "much" more than paid=
for
> > the Domino and CT22 vac..
>
> If that's this HF Plate Joiner.....http://www.harborfreight.com/4-inch-pl=
ate-joiner-38437.html
> it's the worst POS I've ever bought and returned to HF.
>
> --
>
> =A0 -MIKE-
>
> =A0 "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
> =A0 =A0 =A0--Elvin Jones =A0(1927-2004)
> =A0 --
> =A0http://mikedrums.com
> =A0 [email protected]
> =A0 ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

That thing even looks all wrong.

On Feb 23, 12:58=A0pm, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Swingman and I have been working on a lengthy kitchen remodel and my port=
ion
> spilled over into the bathrooms remodel also. =A0I built the drawers, so =
far
> 23 =A0for 3 bathroom counters. =A0I wish my bath rooms had 23 drawers.
> And of course, 6 different sizes. =A0;~)
>
> 3/4" maple with 1/2" maple plywood bottoms, =A0Rabbet corner joints reinf=
orced
> with 6mm thick dominos. =A0Strong!
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/5471114935/#/photos/lcb11211/54...
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/5471114935/#/photos/lcb11211/54...
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/5471114935/#/photos/lcb11211/54...
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/5471114935/#/photos/lcb11211/54...

MMmmmmm... now I REALLY want a Domino.
Very nice result visually and it must be strong too.

"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> > One question. Is the mortise cut in-place for both pieces after
>> > assembly?
>> After assembly, correct.
>
> Same question I was going to ask and it makes sense. Cut one hole and put
> the tenon in. One other question in this regard. Did you Domino the holes
> longer than the tenon and then bang them in until they were flush, or did
> you put them in with the ends proud and then trim them off?
>

The Domino will only cut a 27mm deep mortise IIRC. The 6mm dominos are
40mm. When I first started doing this I painstakingly marked each domino to
about 5mm longer than necessary and quickly ground it down on my disk
sander.

Now I simply skip the length change step if possible and pound in the whole
domino. I cut most of the excess domino off at the TS or BS. Large
projects would dictate cutting with a hand saw or shorting at the sander.

I try to leave about 2 mm exposed. The Rotex in aggressive mode takes care
of those nubs in a couple of seconds.

I have discovered Festool Crystal sand paper by accident. I picked some up
on a clearance table, it is good for sanding painted surfaces, I thought I
might need some one day. Because putting glue down both sides of a 6 mm
wide hole can result with excess getting on the outer surface the dominos
tend to make it hard to wipe that excess glue off. Basically I don't
bother. As you probably know glue can quickly ruin a piece of sand paper.
I was going through about 1 disk for each drawer on the first rough sanding.
I tried the Crystal thinking that paint gums up like glue, I was able to
average 7 times more with each Crystal disk when sanding simi cured glue
around those dominos and rabbet joints. IIRC there is a new Festool paper,
blue tinted, that is good for paint and wood, Granate I think.

On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 15:15:09 -0800 (PST), Robatoy
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Feb 23, 12:58 pm, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Swingman and I have been working on a lengthy kitchen remodel and my portion
>> spilled over into the bathrooms remodel also.  I built the drawers, so far
>> 23  for 3 bathroom counters.  I wish my bath rooms had 23 drawers.
>> And of course, 6 different sizes.  ;~)
>>
>> 3/4" maple with 1/2" maple plywood bottoms,  Rabbet corner joints reinforced
>> with 6mm thick dominos.  Strong!
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/5471114935/#/photos/lcb11211/54...
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/5471114935/#/photos/lcb11211/54...
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/5471114935/#/photos/lcb11211/54...
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/5471114935/#/photos/lcb11211/54...
>
>MMmmmmm... now I REALLY want a Domino.
>Very nice result visually and it must be strong too.

That set of pics even stirred MY crowbars, it did.

--
"Human nature itself is evermore an advocate for liberty.
There is also in human nature a resentment of injury, and
indignation against wrong. A love of truth and a veneration
of virtue. These amiable passions, are the latent spark. If
the people are capable of understanding, seeing and feeling
the differences between true and false, right and wrong,
virtue and vice, to what better principle can the friends of
mankind apply than to the sense of this difference?"
--John Adams

On 2/27/2011 10:06 AM, dpb wrote:

>
> I'm limited in this application to pre-ordained drawer heights and they
> don't fit the jig spacing well for most if not all so it's either get
> something else ready built or build jigs specifically for the runs (or,
> of course, cut them by hand which ain't bad except for the numbers :( :) ).

The show stopper for fixed dovetail jigs is that you do usually want
dovetails to show, which usually means under mount drawer slides.

These slides mandate the precise placing of the drawer bottoms dado,
meaning you must have the ability to able to space the dovetails where
this dado is invisible in the sides after assembly.

It is also another reason why jigs, like the PC, that allow you to cut
both sides of a half blind dovetail at the same time, also fail ... the
spacing must be fixed in that configuration, IIRC, making the above
impossible/unlikely.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

> 3/4" maple with 1/2" maple plywood bottoms, =A0Rabbet corner joints reinf=
orced
> with 6mm thick dominos. =A0Strong!

Nicely done.

I guess you wanted to hide them behind the drawer face at the front
but they don't add any mechanical strength to the front in that
configuration. This is surely no problem for a bathroom drawer but a
large kitchen drawer that could get really loaded could use some extra
mechanical strength to last through the years... don't you think?

One question. Is the mortise cut in-place for both pieces after
assembly?

"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > One question. Is the mortise cut in-place for both pieces after
> > assembly?
> After assembly, correct.

Same question I was going to ask and it makes sense. Cut one hole and put
the tenon in. One other question in this regard. Did you Domino the holes
longer than the tenon and then bang them in until they were flush, or did
you put them in with the ends proud and then trim them off?

"-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 2/23/11 11:58 AM, Leon wrote:
>> Swingman and I have been working on a lengthy kitchen remodel and my
>> portion
>> spilled over into the bathrooms remodel also. I built the drawers, so
>> far
>> 23 for 3 bathroom counters. I wish my bath rooms had 23 drawers.
>> And of course, 6 different sizes. ;~)
>>
>> 3/4" maple with 1/2" maple plywood bottoms, Rabbet corner joints
>> reinforced
>> with 6mm thick dominos. Strong!
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/5471114935/#/photos/lcb11211/5471710794/lightbox/
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/5471114935/#/photos/lcb11211/5471114935/lightbox/
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/5471114935/#/photos/lcb11211/5471707872/lightbox/
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/5471114935/#/photos/lcb11211/5471112571/lightbox/
>>
>
> Is the whole process faster than dovetailing?


EXCELLENT question.

Not really. Obviously building a drawer with rabbets vs. DT's is quicker
however once you build the drawer using either joint method you are done
with assembly. Adding the Dominos requires plunge cutting the mortises, 12
for the big drawers, 8 for the small, distributing glue down both sides of
all of those 6mm wide holes, pounding in the dominos, ( at this point I
think this method takes about as much time as DT's). Then you cut the
excess length dominos off and do quite a bit more rough sanding to flush up
the dominos. Basically you do 2 sets of glue up for each drawer.

IMHO its a six of one half a dozen of the other think concerning strength
and personal appearance preferences.

"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:50e7b14c-94bd-42ac-aa80-3ea95b98968a@a11g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
On Feb 23, 12:58 pm, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Swingman and I have been working on a lengthy kitchen remodel and my
> portion
> spilled over into the bathrooms remodel also. I built the drawers, so far
> 23 for 3 bathroom counters. I wish my bath rooms had 23 drawers.
> And of course, 6 different sizes. ;~)
>
> 3/4" maple with 1/2" maple plywood bottoms, Rabbet corner joints
> reinforced
> with 6mm thick dominos. Strong!
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/5471114935/#/photos/lcb11211/54...
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/5471114935/#/photos/lcb11211/54...
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/5471114935/#/photos/lcb11211/54...
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/5471114935/#/photos/lcb11211/54...

MMmmmmm... now I REALLY want a Domino.
Very nice result visually and it must be strong too.

Thank you.... IMHO the joint is at least as strong as a DT

"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 2/25/2011 6:00 AM, Han wrote:
>> Swingman<[email protected]> wrote in news:2d-dnZZwiYKz-
>> [email protected]:
>>
>>> All these kitchen drawers are 3/4" hard maple, half blind
>>> dovetails, with 1/2" A-1 maple ply bottoms mounted on KV MUV34
>>> Undermount slides ...
>>
>> I've been admiring those drawers very much, but a question popped up. If
>> I
>> may, please, Karl& Leon? Where are the half-blind dovetails? I only
>> see
>> very nicely executed and "pinned" rabbets. And I love that bright white
>> maple!
>
> LOL ... I was onsite with an architect (normally not an enjoyable
> experience, but this one is one of the sexiest women alive) yesterday and
> she asked the same question.
>
> Those damned domino pinned drawers are like rabbits with rabbets ... they
> were everywhere you looked!:
>
> https://picasaweb.google.com/karlcaillouet/DurretteKitchenShopPictures?authkey=Gv1sRgCIaJgYOqgKvOVw#
>
> Scroll down to the last few photos and you'll see some of the REAL drawers
> in various stages of fabrication and storage. ;)
>
> I'll get some better shots of them today as they are being sprayed with
> the final coat of lacquer today.

Can you get some shots of the final coat lacquered UnREAL drawers too? ;~)

"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 2/27/2011 2:39 PM, Robatoy wrote:
>
>> My solution, some 25+ years ago was, in one word, Metabox.
>> <G>
>> Of course, there aren't any in my house.....
>>
>> IMNSHO, I prefer the look of those domino drawers over the ol'
>> dovetails. By quite a margin.
>
> Do have a mutilator, eerr Multi-Router to fall back on, but the set up and
> extra cost of the inserts is not cost effective enough for my liking.
>
> Yeah ... I like them myself. If this particular client had seen them
> first, Leon could have made all the damn drawers (close to 50 and rising
> at last count), which would have suited me just fine.


Not sure my stomach could'a stomached 50 if'n you know what I mean. ;~)
Darn twisty wood.

On 2/27/2011 2:39 PM, Robatoy wrote:

> My solution, some 25+ years ago was, in one word, Metabox.
> <G>
> Of course, there aren't any in my house.....
>
> IMNSHO, I prefer the look of those domino drawers over the ol'
> dovetails. By quite a margin.

Do have a mutilator, eerr Multi-Router to fall back on, but the set up
and extra cost of the inserts is not cost effective enough for my liking.

Yeah ... I like them myself. If this particular client had seen them
first, Leon could have made all the damn drawers (close to 50 and rising
at last count), which would have suited me just fine.

Besides, his new shop needed the tune-up ... and it raised the tone of
the place to a high level for future projects. :)

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"SonomaProducts.com" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> 3/4" maple with 1/2" maple plywood bottoms, Rabbet corner joints
> reinforced
> with 6mm thick dominos. Strong!

Nicely done.

I guess you wanted to hide them behind the drawer face at the front
but they don't add any mechanical strength to the front in that
configuration. This is surely no problem for a bathroom drawer but a
large kitchen drawer that could get really loaded could use some extra
mechanical strength to last through the years... don't you think?



To clairify a bit more,,, the dominos will be visible from the side of the
drawer when opened, they are on the side of the drawer.

Had they been installed in the front I can see how they would not add any
strength.

"Larry Jaques" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Snip

/#/photos/lcb11211/54...
>>>
>>>MMmmmmm... now I REALLY want a Domino.
>>>Very nice result visually and it must be strong too.
>>
>>That set of pics even stirred MY crowbars, it did.
>
> Jesus H. Christ! I just saw the festerclucking price they want for it.
>
> I guess I'll stick with my $37 HF bisquicker. Time to add that thrust
> washer and tighten up the height...


Everything is relative, that single drawer job "much" more than paid for
the Domino and CT22 vac..

On 2/25/2011 6:00 AM, Han wrote:
> Swingman<[email protected]> wrote in news:2d-dnZZwiYKz-
> [email protected]:
>
>> All these kitchen drawers are 3/4" hard maple, half blind
>> dovetails, with 1/2" A-1 maple ply bottoms mounted on KV MUV34
>> Undermount slides ...
>
> I've been admiring those drawers very much, but a question popped up. If I
> may, please, Karl& Leon? Where are the half-blind dovetails? I only see
> very nicely executed and "pinned" rabbets. And I love that bright white
> maple!

LOL ... I was onsite with an architect (normally not an enjoyable
experience, but this one is one of the sexiest women alive) yesterday
and she asked the same question.

Those damned domino pinned drawers are like rabbits with rabbets ...
they were everywhere you looked!:

https://picasaweb.google.com/karlcaillouet/DurretteKitchenShopPictures?authkey=Gv1sRgCIaJgYOqgKvOVw#

Scroll down to the last few photos and you'll see some of the REAL
drawers in various stages of fabrication and storage. ;)

I'll get some better shots of them today as they are being sprayed with
the final coat of lacquer today.

FWIW ... Their new home is almost ready ... drywall went up yesterday
and floor floated, today the kitchen floor will be laid and Leon and I
will level and set the bases for the base cabinets today:

https://picasaweb.google.com/karlcaillouet/DurretteKitchenDemolitionWallRemoval?authkey=Gv1sRgCODv4OKAraChgQE#

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

>> Han wrote:
>> may, please, Karl& Leon? Where are the half-blind dovetails? I only see
>> very nicely executed and "pinned" rabbets. And I love that bright white
>> maple!

Here a representative side and back of the completely finished drawers
in question:

https://picasaweb.google.com/karlcaillouet/DurretteKitchenDemolitionWallRemoval?authkey=Gv1sRgCODv4OKAraChgQE#5577982059486805890

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"SonomaProducts.com" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:1f0d6d71-77b8-4848-a2f2-472598bd77b8@o39g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
>
>> There is indeed a drawer front, but it does not cover the domino "pegs"
>> in the drawer _sides_, as the "pegs' are specifically there to provide
>> provide _both_ mechanical strength to the rabbet joint, and a visual
>> contrast ... see below.
>
> Oops, I mis-read the photos. I thought the side sot where you can see
> the back and front loose tenon ends was a shot across the front face.
>
> Now I like this 100%.

;~) If there is a way to present or take a picture that will be confusing,
I'm your man. LOL





>
> For this situation I won't start my rany about unpinned floating
> tennos being not the same as true pinned M&T ;^)

LOL 2-shey

Swingman <[email protected]> wrote in news:2d-dnZZwiYKz-
[email protected]:

> All these kitchen drawers are 3/4" hard maple, half blind
> dovetails, with 1/2" A-1 maple ply bottoms mounted on KV MUV34
> Undermount slides ...

I've been admiring those drawers very much, but a question popped up. If I
may, please, Karl & Leon? Where are the half-blind dovetails? I only see
very nicely executed and "pinned" rabbets. And I love that bright white
maple!

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Swingman <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

>>> Han wrote:
>>> may, please, Karl& Leon? Where are the half-blind dovetails? I only
>>> see very nicely executed and "pinned" rabbets. And I love that
>>> bright white maple!
>
> Here a representative side and back of the completely finished drawers
> in question:
>
> https://picasaweb.google.com/karlcaillouet/DurretteKitchenDemolitionWal
> lRemoval?authkey=Gv1sRgCODv4OKAraChgQE#5577982059486805890

Beautiful!!

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On 2/27/2011 3:52 PM, Leon wrote:
> "Swingman"<[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On 2/27/2011 2:39 PM, Robatoy wrote:
>>
>>> My solution, some 25+ years ago was, in one word, Metabox.
>>> <G>
>>> Of course, there aren't any in my house.....
>>>
>>> IMNSHO, I prefer the look of those domino drawers over the ol'
>>> dovetails. By quite a margin.
>>
>> Do have a mutilator, eerr Multi-Router to fall back on, but the set up and
>> extra cost of the inserts is not cost effective enough for my liking.
>>
>> Yeah ... I like them myself. If this particular client had seen them
>> first, Leon could have made all the damn drawers (close to 50 and rising
>> at last count), which would have suited me just fine.
>
>
> Not sure my stomach could'a stomached 50 if'n you know what I mean. ;~)
> Darn twisty wood.

Whew!! You musta gotten all the branch wood. :)

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Feb 23, 11:58 am, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:

> 3/4" maple with 1/2" maple plywood bottoms, Rabbet corner joints reinfor=
ced
> with 6mm thick dominos. Strong!

I like the way those Domino tenons look on the drawers. To me it kind
of has a Euro feel to it. Is that a Leon =A9 original design?

It brings another question. Will they be visible when complete?
Paint or clear/stain?

As always, nicely done!

Robert

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:a7144dd4-8f50-4483-866b-433f7d2241f9@o21g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
On Feb 23, 11:58 am, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:

> 3/4" maple with 1/2" maple plywood bottoms, Rabbet corner joints
> reinforced
> with 6mm thick dominos. Strong!

I like the way those Domino tenons look on the drawers. To me it kind
of has a Euro feel to it. Is that a Leon © original design?


Euro hummmm. This is certainly not an original by me however I immediately
started using them this way when I bought the Domino. I later read that
others had been using the Domino's in this way also. Not totally unlike
pounding in a dowel to lock things together.




It brings another question. Will they be visible when complete?
Paint or clear/stain?

Swingman texted me indicating that they already had a nice off white look.
LOL. I think when they dry they will have a clear finish.



As always, nicely done!

Thank you Robert!


Robert

On Feb 27, 1:34=A0pm, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 2/27/2011 10:06 AM, dpb wrote:
>
>
>
> > I'm limited in this application to pre-ordained drawer heights and they
> > don't fit the jig spacing well for most if not all so it's either get
> > something else ready built or build jigs specifically for the runs (or,
> > of course, cut them by hand which ain't bad except for the numbers :( :=
) ).
>
> The show stopper for fixed dovetail jigs is that you do usually want
> dovetails to show, which usually means under mount drawer slides.
>
> These slides mandate the precise placing of the drawer bottoms dado,
> meaning you must have the ability to able to space the dovetails where
> this dado is invisible in the sides after assembly.
>
> It is also another reason why jigs, like the PC, that allow you to cut
> both sides of a half blind dovetail at the same time, also fail ... the
> spacing must be fixed in that configuration, IIRC, making the above
> impossible/unlikely.
>
> --www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 4/15/2010
> KarlC@ (the obvious)

My solution, some 25+ years ago was, in one word, Metabox.
<G>
Of course, there aren't any in my house.....

IMNSHO, I prefer the look of those domino drawers over the ol'
dovetails. By quite a margin.

On 2/23/11 11:58 AM, Leon wrote:
> Swingman and I have been working on a lengthy kitchen remodel and my portion
> spilled over into the bathrooms remodel also. I built the drawers, so far
> 23 for 3 bathroom counters. I wish my bath rooms had 23 drawers.
> And of course, 6 different sizes. ;~)
>
> 3/4" maple with 1/2" maple plywood bottoms, Rabbet corner joints reinforced
> with 6mm thick dominos. Strong!
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/5471114935/#/photos/lcb11211/5471710794/lightbox/
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/5471114935/#/photos/lcb11211/5471114935/lightbox/
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/5471114935/#/photos/lcb11211/5471707872/lightbox/
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/5471114935/#/photos/lcb11211/5471112571/lightbox/
>

Is the whole process faster than dovetailing?


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 2/24/11 10:15 AM, Leon wrote:
> "Larry Jaques"<[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> Snip
>
> /#/photos/lcb11211/54...
>>>>
>>>> MMmmmmm... now I REALLY want a Domino.
>>>> Very nice result visually and it must be strong too.
>>>
>>> That set of pics even stirred MY crowbars, it did.
>>
>> Jesus H. Christ! I just saw the festerclucking price they want for it.
>>
>> I guess I'll stick with my $37 HF bisquicker. Time to add that thrust
>> washer and tighten up the height...
>
>
> Everything is relative, that single drawer job "much" more than paid for
> the Domino and CT22 vac..
>

If that's this HF Plate Joiner.....
http://www.harborfreight.com/4-inch-plate-joiner-38437.html
it's the worst POS I've ever bought and returned to HF.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 2/25/2011 6:17 AM, Swingman wrote:
> On 2/25/2011 6:00 AM, Han wrote:
...
>> ... Where are the half-blind dovetails? ...
>
> Those damned domino pinned drawers are like rabbits with rabbets ...
> they were everywhere you looked!:
...
> Scroll down to the last few photos and you'll see some of the REAL
> drawers in various stages of fabrication and storage. ;)
...

Curious...which dovetail template/system are you using (and why the
particular choice if so inclined)? Thanks...starting a kitchen rework
here and it's either go w/ something new or do the old-timey way
which'll be long-time consuming that would rather not take...

--

On 2/26/2011 7:54 PM, Leon wrote:
> "dpb"<[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
...

>> Curious...which dovetail template/system are you using ...

> Leigh Jig

That was my guess, thanks...I have one of the fixed-spacing P-C types
which works ok but doesn't have the flexibility to deal with arbitrary
spacing.

--

On 2/27/2011 9:57 AM, Leon wrote:
...
> Fixed spacing is not absolutely a bad thing when it comes to consistent
> results. Swingman has lately been having problems with the fingers slipping
> and getting inconsistent fit results. I use the Leigh jig also however have
> not yet seen any problems. IMHO an adjustable finger jig with something
> more than a friction fit to hold the fingers would be a plus, thinking the
> Akeda, or something like the Akeda.

Indeed, I've heard that complaint before on the Leigh (maybe a
conversation here w/ Swingman, who knows/remembers?).

I'm limited in this application to pre-ordained drawer heights and they
don't fit the jig spacing well for most if not all so it's either get
something else ready built or build jigs specifically for the runs (or,
of course, cut them by hand which ain't bad except for the numbers :( :) ).

I'd kinda' forgotten the Akeda--seems like maybe PC has introduced
something not too long ago, as well I think???

I've been on the barn and other big stuff so long I've not done anything
smallish scale in number of years now...this has been pushed off for
almost 10 yrs now...before spring planting season I'm determined to get
at least going on it ('course, I've said that before, too! :) ).

--

On 2/27/2011 11:58 AM, Swingman wrote:
...
> Bottom line is that I would have already bought the Akeda (based in no
> small part on charlieb's review) had it been available on this last job,
> but its production/availability seems to be sporadic last time I checked
> and none were to be had at any price.
>
> Hope that has changed, or will change, because it looks like the way to
> go for the current "state of the art" of adjustable spacing dovetail jigs.

It appears from another forum google found that as of a couple weeks ago
the current owner of the the Akeda rights is hoping he might have
production starting again by fall...all in all, the info I could find
makes it look kinda' iffy at best that it will happen at all would be my
guess.

That won't help much now, unfortunately.

> <unfortunately there is absolutely NO financial feasibility in doing
> small shop production runs by hand, regardless of the desirability of
> doing so>

For anything production, certainly so...I don't have to worry about
making a profit here, but realistically on the time to ever get done w/
what _does_ have to get done for profit farming means it ain't feasible,
here, either.

--

On 2/23/2011 1:55 PM, Swingman wrote:
> On 2/23/2011 12:23 PM, SonomaProducts.com wrote:
>
...

> ~ Background: All these kitchen drawers are 3/4" hard maple, half blind
> dovetails, with 1/2" A-1 maple ply bottoms mounted on KV MUV34
> Undermount slides ...
>
> <as you know, doing this kind of work, the drawer slides themselves are
> the 'tail that wags the dog' as far as drawer dimensions, their design,
> and very often, the type of joinery that must be used>
>
> ... with the exception of one drawer:
>
> In the kitchen, a special, shallow kitchen KNIFE drawer was made in a
> similar fashion as first above because the drawer depth was simply too
> shallow for half blind dovetails with undermount drawer slides and a
> 1/2" bottom.
...

One more side question...

I had in mind in the retrofit here to use undermount slides as well
until I realized the same problem of they simply require to much lost
space for the space available and number of drawers that are too few
already (and there's not an option to make the kitchen larger here).

So, I've been looking for an alternate better than the corner-mounted
rollers and center track that Dad used that can still get fit in (I
built the cabinets and drawer boxes for folks some 30 year ago in a
quick trip home and left the door-hanging, drawer mounting and finishing
to him after went back home). Now they're getting old and I'm remaking
doors and drawer fronts and going to refinish the faces.

The drawer boxes are 7/16" oak w/ 1/4" bottoms an approximate 3/8" space
from bottom of bottom to bottom of side. The pretty well fit the
opening on sides. Not sure, may not have much choice other than fit
center tracks/rails w/ a UHMW glide.

Have you run across anything that might be a suitable selection? As
noted, I hate to think of making the drawers themselves any smaller than
they already are; I was planning on cutting off the existing fronts and
cut the tails in place and go inset instead of overlay for both drawer
fronts and doors.

--

On 3/5/2011 10:19 AM, Swingman wrote:
> On 3/2/2011 1:27 PM, dpb wrote:
>> On 2/23/2011 1:55 PM, Swingman wrote:
>>> On 2/23/2011 12:23 PM, SonomaProducts.com wrote:
>>>
>> ...
>>
...

>> The drawer boxes are 7/16" oak w/ 1/4" bottoms an approximate 3/8" space
>> from bottom of bottom to bottom of side. The pretty well fit the opening
>> on sides. Not sure, may not have much choice other than fit center
>> tracks/rails w/ a UHMW glide.
>>
>> Have you run across anything that might be a suitable selection? As
>> noted, I hate to think of making the drawers themselves any smaller than
>> they already are; I was planning on cutting off the existing fronts and
>> cut the tails in place and go inset instead of overlay for both drawer
>> fronts and doors.
>
> Sorry ... I've been making sure that this post remained as "unread"
> until I had time to reply.
>
> I agree with Leon. Having built hundreds of drawers that were spec'ed
> for under mount hardware, I've been unable to find a centermount
> solution that would work in the kind of drawers you would want to use in
> a kitchen.
>
> I have used single, centermount underdrawer slides for smaller drawers
> in desks and chests, but still ending up being forced to support the
> drawer sides with some type of support, like UHMW strips. These would
> not be practical in a kitchen, IMO
>
> I've also seen another practice that works, but that I don't necessarily
> buy into, and that is using 3/4 extension side mount slides, mounted
> horizontally under the drawers instead of on the sides.
>
> As long as you use a heavy duty slide that far exceeds the expected
> drawer load you may get away with it. But, the slide mechanism itself is
> not designed for a load in that direction and I'm of the opinion that
> they won't last long when used in such a contraindicated manner.
>
> As you already know, undermount drawer slides are very picky about
> drawer dimensions and the drawers must be built within a narrow range of
> the specified dimensions to work at all.
>
> I've never seen a case where an existing drawer could be retrofitted to
> accept today's undermount slides ... but you could always get lucky,
> and, IMO, that's what it would take.
>
> Basically ... what Leon said.
...

OK, thanks for the input...I hear ya'... :)

I've done the side-mount turned flat underneath here for the printer
slideout tray on the office desk I built when moved back and still had
leftover consulting contracts to clean up for first few years from the
previous life. As noted, they don't have the lateral strength to
support the weight on their own so wouldn't consider that for a
repetitive application like the kitchen. But, it works nicely for the
space-saving app w/ the printer that only has to come out occasionally
and has an underneath support that sits on the floor to support the
printer when need it out to, say, scan larger document.

As noted in the other thread, I think I'll try a couple of the KV1129's;
it turns out that the underneath drawer dimension does just happen to be
their spec so looks like from that standpoint I did turn lucky, maybe.
If not, I'll deal w/ the situation on down the road as I can live w/ the
existing if have to for a while yet; I do want to finish the doors and
get them hung before spring planting has to begin 'cause it cannot in
any circumstances be put off when the day comes it's warm enough and we
have moisture--everything else will have to wait at that point and
harvest isn't far behind that and so chances are good nothing else will
get done 'til next winter once farm season actually arrives...

Thanks for the input; just thought since you/Leon in particular here are
active and it's been 30 yr now since were doing the retro houses in
Lynchburg there might be something that's the cat's meow was unaware of
as an alternative solution.

--

On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 11:58:32 -0600, Leon wrote:

> Swingman and I have been working on a lengthy kitchen remodel and my portion
> spilled over into the bathrooms remodel also. I built the drawers, so far
> 23 for 3 bathroom counters. I wish my bath rooms had 23 drawers.
> And of course, 6 different sizes. ;~)
>
> 3/4" maple with 1/2" maple plywood bottoms, Rabbet corner joints reinforced
> with 6mm thick dominos. Strong!
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/5471114935/#/photos/lcb11211/5471710794/lightbox/
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/5471114935/#/photos/lcb11211/5471114935/lightbox/
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/5471114935/#/photos/lcb11211/5471707872/lightbox/
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/5471114935/#/photos/lcb11211/5471112571/lightbox/

Damn, they look nice too.

basilisk

"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> IMHO its a six of one half a dozen of the other think concerning strength
> and personal appearance preferences.

Except that the Domino method is much less subject to error in my opinion.

"SonomaProducts.com" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> 3/4" maple with 1/2" maple plywood bottoms, Rabbet corner joints
> reinforced
> with 6mm thick dominos. Strong!

Nicely done.

Thank you

I guess you wanted to hide them behind the drawer face at the front
but they don't add any mechanical strength to the front in that
configuration. This is surely no problem for a bathroom drawer but a
large kitchen drawer that could get really loaded could use some extra
mechanical strength to last through the years... don't you think?



I believe that they add considerable strength in this configuration, they
lock fronts and backs into the sides rabbets in the direction that the
pulling and pushing force would be found.

22 years ago I built 2' x 3' pots and pans drawers simply using a rabbet
joint reinforced with glue and finish nails. The drawers are as tight today
as thery were then.

One question. Is the mortise cut in-place for both pieces after
assembly?


After assembly, correct.

"Edward Hennessey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Swingman and I have been working on a lengthy kitchen remodel and my
>> portion spilled over into the bathrooms remodel also. I built the
>> drawers, so far 23 for 3 bathroom counters. I wish my bath rooms had 23
>> drawers.
>> And of course, 6 different sizes. ;~)
>>
>> 3/4" maple with 1/2" maple plywood bottoms, Rabbet corner joints
>> reinforced with 6mm thick dominos. Strong!
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/5471114935/#/photos/lcb11211/5471710794/lightbox/
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/5471114935/#/photos/lcb11211/5471114935/lightbox/
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/5471114935/#/photos/lcb11211/5471707872/lightbox/
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/5471114935/#/photos/lcb11211/5471112571/lightbox/
>>
>
> L:
>
> Tight and handsome work.

Thank you Ed!

"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Swingman and I have been working on a lengthy kitchen
> remodel and my portion spilled over into the bathrooms
> remodel also. I built the drawers, so far 23 for 3
> bathroom counters. I wish my bath rooms had 23 drawers.
> And of course, 6 different sizes. ;~)
>
> 3/4" maple with 1/2" maple plywood bottoms, Rabbet corner
> joints reinforced with 6mm thick dominos. Strong!
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/5471114935/#/photos/lcb11211/5471710794/lightbox/
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/5471114935/#/photos/lcb11211/5471114935/lightbox/
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/5471114935/#/photos/lcb11211/5471707872/lightbox/
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/5471114935/#/photos/lcb11211/5471112571/lightbox/
>

L:

Tight and handsome work.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey

"dpb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 2/26/2011 7:54 PM, Leon wrote:
>> "dpb"<[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
> ...
>
>>> Curious...which dovetail template/system are you using ...
>
>> Leigh Jig
>
> That was my guess, thanks...I have one of the fixed-spacing P-C types
> which works ok but doesn't have the flexibility to deal with arbitrary
> spacing.
>
> --
>

Fixed spacing is not absolutely a bad thing when it comes to consistent
results. Swingman has lately been having problems with the fingers slipping
and getting inconsistent fit results. I use the Leigh jig also however have
not yet seen any problems. IMHO an adjustable finger jig with something
more than a friction fit to hold the fingers would be a plus, thinking the
Akeda, or something like the Akeda.

"dpb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 2/27/2011 9:57 AM, Leon wrote:
> ...
>> Fixed spacing is not absolutely a bad thing when it comes to consistent
>> results. Swingman has lately been having problems with the fingers
>> slipping
>> and getting inconsistent fit results. I use the Leigh jig also however
>> have
>> not yet seen any problems. IMHO an adjustable finger jig with something
>> more than a friction fit to hold the fingers would be a plus, thinking
>> the
>> Akeda, or something like the Akeda.
>
> Indeed, I've heard that complaint before on the Leigh (maybe a
> conversation here w/ Swingman, who knows/remembers?).
>
> I'm limited in this application to pre-ordained drawer heights and they
> don't fit the jig spacing well for most if not all so it's either get
> something else ready built or build jigs specifically for the runs (or, of
> course, cut them by hand which ain't bad except for the numbers :( :) ).
>
> I'd kinda' forgotten the Akeda--seems like maybe PC has introduced
> something not too long ago, as well I think???


All things being equal concerning the latest from PC, think Leig Jig,
destroyer...... PC DT jig, air crafter carrier, it is huge, almost the same
width of a sheet of plywood, more than 13 inches tall and 18" front to back
and 66 lbs.
http://www.portercable.com/Products/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=16132

"dpb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 2/25/2011 6:17 AM, Swingman wrote:
>> On 2/25/2011 6:00 AM, Han wrote:
> ...
>>> ... Where are the half-blind dovetails? ...
>>
>> Those damned domino pinned drawers are like rabbits with rabbets ...
>> they were everywhere you looked!:
> ...
>> Scroll down to the last few photos and you'll see some of the REAL
>> drawers in various stages of fabrication and storage. ;)
> ...
>
> Curious...which dovetail template/system are you using (and why the
> particular choice if so inclined)? Thanks...starting a kitchen rework
> here and it's either go w/ something new or do the old-timey way which'll
> be long-time consuming that would rather not take...
>
> --

Leigh Jig

"basilisk" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 11:58:32 -0600, Leon wrote:
>
>> Swingman and I have been working on a lengthy kitchen remodel and my
>> portion
>> spilled over into the bathrooms remodel also. I built the drawers, so
>> far
>> 23 for 3 bathroom counters. I wish my bath rooms had 23 drawers.
>> And of course, 6 different sizes. ;~)
>>
>> 3/4" maple with 1/2" maple plywood bottoms, Rabbet corner joints
>> reinforced
>> with 6mm thick dominos. Strong!
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/5471114935/#/photos/lcb11211/5471710794/lightbox/
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/5471114935/#/photos/lcb11211/5471114935/lightbox/
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/5471114935/#/photos/lcb11211/5471707872/lightbox/
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/5471114935/#/photos/lcb11211/5471112571/lightbox/
>
> Damn, they look nice too.
>
> basilisk

Thank you!

>>
>> Is the whole process faster than dovetailing?
>
>
> EXCELLENT question.
>
> Not really. Obviously building a drawer with rabbets vs. DT's is quicker
> however once you build the drawer using either joint method you are done
> with assembly. Adding the Dominos requires plunge cutting the mortises,
> 12 for the big drawers, 8 for the small, distributing glue down both sides
> of all of those 6mm wide holes, pounding in the dominos, ( at this point I
> think this method takes about as much time as DT's). Then you cut the
> excess length dominos off and do quite a bit more rough sanding to flush
> up the dominos. Basically you do 2 sets of glue up for each drawer.
>
> IMHO its a six of one half a dozen of the other think concerning strength
> and personal appearance preferences.
>

A bit more on that, the DT is definetely a more complicated/fussy joint to
produce with more opportunity to screw up. A rabbet joint is pretty simple
although glue up is a bit testy. Plunging the Domino to make mortices is
pretty much fool proof.