We have finally found an old warehouse type building to move into. The usual
flat roof (good condition, light insulation) and concrete block construction.
What is going to be the best way (heavy consideration on the cost, present and
future)to make it somewhat energy effecient. About 60% of the second floor
ceiling is batted. The rest is not but does have a suspended ceiling. I'm
mainly concerned about the outside walls. Do we stud, insulate and sheetrock
the inside or eps and "drive-it" the outside? Or is there a better way? The
building is two story, 5k per floor. Help! By the way, we're in Oklahoma, so
the summer sun is a definite consideration.
Respectfully,
Ron Moore
No, no connection with local contractor. I work for Putnam City Schools,
facility management.
The foam work we have had done was through the masonry contractor on new
work, so I have no direct recommendation. When we have had the foam fill
work, the contractors elected to drill multiple holes above and below bond
beams to inject the foam. Block work typically has a horizontal and
vertical concrete filled block every 4 feet each way. The holes were quite
small. I think it would work quite well for existing especially if it easy
to get to the walls, though we have not done so. We tend to spend our
dollars on window, roof, and equipment upgrades.
EIFS (Dryvit) provides an excellent method to upgrade the exterior look and
insulation factor of the building. Bruce Moss at Moss plastering or H&W
plastering would be good ones.
We tend to stay with modified bitumen roofing over foam board insulation on
the roofs. Southwest Roofing, perhaps the largest in the state, will be one
of your new neighbors (they face Sante Fe) If you want a smaller, service
oriented, contractor call Larry Hedinger at G&L Roofing. We are looking at
foam roof possibilities, a young man in that business is Keith Durham, H&H
roofing, 417-5463, if you want to look into it.
What type of facility are you creating? I don't imagine there is any
relationship with Ron Moore glass company in Edmond. If I can be of
assistance, send me a personal email.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Keep the whole world singing. . . .
DanG
"Ron Moore" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Dan,
> Thanks for the response. We have a contract on 4900 N Sewell in
> OKC. Thats just east of Broadway and just south of NW 50th. We close
> on Jan 29th or before, hopefully. I guess we'll be almost right behind
> Ellis Construction referred to in your links. I don't know if there
> will be access to the ccblock wall for filling. Why does foam filling
> effect the R value when the concrete has such a low value (1.1 /in)?
> Are you with one of the local companies? We would like to put a much
> better roof on the building but from a cost standpoint we will probably
> live with the existing for a while and finish insulating the ceiling
> inside. So many options, it's hard to knoww where to go first. Thanks
> again.
> Respectfully,
> Ron Moore
>
>
>
>
> DanG wrote:
> > Ron,
> >
> > Look into foam filling the block wall. It will solve air infiltration,
> > sound, heat and cold problems. There are several contractors in
Oklahoma
> > City.
> > http://www.thecityofoklahomacity.com/insulation/
> >
> > http://www.usainsulation.com/States/oklahoma.htm
> >
> >
> >
> > DIY ?
> > http://www.fomofoam.com/Fire-Foam1.html
> >
> > We have been doing this on new Putnam City Schools.
> >
> > Your best money will be spent on ceiling insulation, door and window
> > caulking/sealing, maintaining the HVAC equipment.
> >
> > Where in town are you?
> >
> >
> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > Keep the whole world singing. . . .
> > DanG
> >
> >
> > "Ron Moore" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >
> >>We have finally found an old warehouse type building to move into. The
> >
> > usual
> >
> >>flat roof (good condition, light insulation) and concrete block
> >
> > construction.
> >
> >>What is going to be the best way (heavy consideration on the cost,
present
> >
> > and
> >
> >>future)to make it somewhat energy effecient. About 60% of the second
> >
> > floor
> >
> >>ceiling is batted. The rest is not but does have a suspended ceiling.
> >
> > I'm
> >
> >>mainly concerned about the outside walls. Do we stud, insulate and
> >
> > sheetrock
> >
> >>the inside or eps and "drive-it" the outside? Or is there a better way?
> >
> > The
> >
> >>building is two story, 5k per floor. Help! By the way, we're in
> >
> > Oklahoma, so
> >
> >>the summer sun is a definite consideration.
> >>Respectfully,
> >>Ron Moore
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
Thanks for the correction on the Dryvit. I was wondering where the thermal
mass would do the most good. I've thought about the radiant barrier "paint"
coating also, maybe that on the outside and then insulate the inside. We're
wanting to do an industrial type loft so wall shelving isn't necessary. I
suppose a deal on some sip panel might work as well. We would like to retain
some of the block wall texture but maybe that on the south wall for efficiency.
Do you know anything about the radiant barrier material? I hadn't thought
about the stud center placement but that is a great idea. I wonder if using 6"
studs (and more insulation) would add that much to the efficency and would metal
studs be that much less effecient than wood? BTW, thanks for the response.
Respectfully,
Ron Moore
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> "Ron Moore" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>> I'm
>>mainly concerned about the outside walls. Do we stud, insulate and
>
> sheetrock
>
>>the inside or eps and "drive-it" the outside? Or is there a better way?
>
>
>
> Either way will work. If you want to spruce up the outside, the Dryvit
> system may be the best way.
>
> If you are looking to keep heat in more than heat out, I'd go with inside
> insulation. Remember, the block walls will act as a heatsink. The summer
> sun will warm them up, making the eps/Dryvit system appealing, but in the
> winter, you'd have to heat the walls some before the insulation becomes
> effective.
>
> Are the block walls inside OK appearance wise? If you want to spruce up the
> shop a bit, eps sheets (or any other insulation) on the inside, then
> sheetrock will do. Since the walls are already structurally sound, the
> studs can be 24" centers.
>
> OTOH, consider how you will be mounting any shelves or cabinets on the
> inside and frame accordingly.
> Ed
> [email protected]
> http://pages.cthome.net/edhome
>
>
This time we're buying. We've been leasing our present business location for 20
years as of Dec 31. We will be in this one for long time, I'm sure, so we do
want to "get it right" for long term environmental effeciency. It's just
difficult to know where to best invest the funds available. I much appreciate
whatever ideas, suggestions the group may have. Thanks again.
Respectfully,
Ron Moore
Henry E Schaffer wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Ron Moore <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>We have finally found an old warehouse type building to move into. The usual
>>flat roof (good condition, light insulation) and concrete block construction.
>>What is going to be the best way (heavy consideration on the cost, present and
>>future)to make it somewhat energy effecient. About 60% of the second floor
>>ceiling is batted. The rest is not but does have a suspended ceiling. I'm
>>mainly concerned about the outside walls. Do we stud, insulate and sheetrock
>>the inside or eps and "drive-it" the outside? Or is there a better way? The
>>building is two story, 5k per floor. Help! By the way, we're in Oklahoma, so
>>the summer sun is a definite consideration.
>
>
> The first questions I'd ask concerns ownership/lease? Are you buying
> or leasing? If a lease - what are the terms, length, etc. Viewing your
> improvements as investment - what are the benefits, and over what term?
Dan,
Thanks for the response. We have a contract on 4900 N Sewell in
OKC. Thats just east of Broadway and just south of NW 50th. We close
on Jan 29th or before, hopefully. I guess we'll be almost right behind
Ellis Construction referred to in your links. I don't know if there
will be access to the ccblock wall for filling. Why does foam filling
effect the R value when the concrete has such a low value (1.1 /in)?
Are you with one of the local companies? We would like to put a much
better roof on the building but from a cost standpoint we will probably
live with the existing for a while and finish insulating the ceiling
inside. So many options, it's hard to knoww where to go first. Thanks
again.
Respectfully,
Ron Moore
DanG wrote:
> Ron,
>
> Look into foam filling the block wall. It will solve air infiltration,
> sound, heat and cold problems. There are several contractors in Oklahoma
> City.
> http://www.thecityofoklahomacity.com/insulation/
>
> http://www.usainsulation.com/States/oklahoma.htm
>
>
>
> DIY ?
> http://www.fomofoam.com/Fire-Foam1.html
>
> We have been doing this on new Putnam City Schools.
>
> Your best money will be spent on ceiling insulation, door and window
> caulking/sealing, maintaining the HVAC equipment.
>
> Where in town are you?
>
>
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Keep the whole world singing. . . .
> DanG
>
>
> "Ron Moore" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>We have finally found an old warehouse type building to move into. The
>
> usual
>
>>flat roof (good condition, light insulation) and concrete block
>
> construction.
>
>>What is going to be the best way (heavy consideration on the cost, present
>
> and
>
>>future)to make it somewhat energy effecient. About 60% of the second
>
> floor
>
>>ceiling is batted. The rest is not but does have a suspended ceiling.
>
> I'm
>
>>mainly concerned about the outside walls. Do we stud, insulate and
>
> sheetrock
>
>>the inside or eps and "drive-it" the outside? Or is there a better way?
>
> The
>
>>building is two story, 5k per floor. Help! By the way, we're in
>
> Oklahoma, so
>
>>the summer sun is a definite consideration.
>>Respectfully,
>>Ron Moore
>>
>
>
>
Ron,
Look into foam filling the block wall. It will solve air infiltration,
sound, heat and cold problems. There are several contractors in Oklahoma
City.
http://www.thecityofoklahomacity.com/insulation/
http://www.usainsulation.com/States/oklahoma.htm
DIY ?
http://www.fomofoam.com/Fire-Foam1.html
We have been doing this on new Putnam City Schools.
Your best money will be spent on ceiling insulation, door and window
caulking/sealing, maintaining the HVAC equipment.
Where in town are you?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Keep the whole world singing. . . .
DanG
"Ron Moore" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> We have finally found an old warehouse type building to move into. The
usual
> flat roof (good condition, light insulation) and concrete block
construction.
> What is going to be the best way (heavy consideration on the cost, present
and
> future)to make it somewhat energy effecient. About 60% of the second
floor
> ceiling is batted. The rest is not but does have a suspended ceiling.
I'm
> mainly concerned about the outside walls. Do we stud, insulate and
sheetrock
> the inside or eps and "drive-it" the outside? Or is there a better way?
The
> building is two story, 5k per floor. Help! By the way, we're in
Oklahoma, so
> the summer sun is a definite consideration.
> Respectfully,
> Ron Moore
>
Ron Moore wrote:
> Thanks for the correction on the Dryvit. I was wondering where the thermal
> mass would do the most good. I've thought about the radiant barrier "paint"
> coating also, maybe that on the outside and then insulate the inside. We're
> wanting to do an industrial type loft so wall shelving isn't necessary. I
> suppose a deal on some sip panel might work as well. We would like to retain
> some of the block wall texture but maybe that on the south wall for efficiency.
> Do you know anything about the radiant barrier material? I hadn't thought
> about the stud center placement but that is a great idea. I wonder if using 6"
> studs (and more insulation) would add that much to the efficency and would metal
> studs be that much less effecient than wood? BTW, thanks for the response.
> Respectfully,
> Ron Moore
The studs are a significant thermal leakage path through the
insulation, one more reason to got to 24 OC.
Metal studs are significantly worse thermal leaks than wood
studs. I don't have the numbers handy but you can probably
find them with the help of Google.
Rico
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"Ron Moore" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Dan,
> Why does foam filling
> effect the R value when the concrete has such a low value (1.1 /in)?
Filling the cores is often done with new construction. You can buy inserts
that go into the blocks, or, after construction bead can be blown into the
cores. They both work, but not as good as full insulation. Products like
Poly Core and Korfil can only be used in new construction before the block
is laid. Loose filling can be done as long as there is access to the top
course openings. It will not fill voids under windows unless done in new
construction before the window is placed. In either case, the mortar lines
and webs are still poor insulators.
Ed
In article <[email protected]>,
Ron Moore <[email protected]> wrote:
>We have finally found an old warehouse type building to move into. The usual
>flat roof (good condition, light insulation) and concrete block construction.
>What is going to be the best way (heavy consideration on the cost, present and
>future)to make it somewhat energy effecient. About 60% of the second floor
>ceiling is batted. The rest is not but does have a suspended ceiling. I'm
>mainly concerned about the outside walls. Do we stud, insulate and sheetrock
>the inside or eps and "drive-it" the outside? Or is there a better way? The
>building is two story, 5k per floor. Help! By the way, we're in Oklahoma, so
>the summer sun is a definite consideration.
The first questions I'd ask concerns ownership/lease? Are you buying
or leasing? If a lease - what are the terms, length, etc. Viewing your
improvements as investment - what are the benefits, and over what term?
--
--henry schaffer
[email protected]
In article <[email protected]>,
Ron Moore <[email protected]> wrote:
>...
Your problem of finding the best place(s) to insulate are a *very*
common one in renovating buildings (also when designing new ones.) So
much so that HVAC firms usually have computer programs to work out the
cost/benefit basis for this. You can also do it by hand - all the math
and the values needed are in the ASHRAE handbooks which you should find
in any engineering library (university or technical school.)
Keep in mind that the place to spend money first is usually where the
insulation is worst. E.g., I'd sure check out the windows and doors
before I started to drill every concrete block to squirt foam into the
interior.
Even if you work this out yourself, it might be worth paying a
reasonable consulting fee to a capable HVAC engineer to check over your
work.
--
--henry schaffer
hes _AT_ ncsu _DOT_ edu
Look into 2x6 studs and insulation. You might even put up 2 layers of 5/8
sheetrock. I would think you could get almost R30 out of that combo, maybe r
24?
"Ron Moore" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> We have finally found an old warehouse type building to move into. The
usual
> flat roof (good condition, light insulation) and concrete block
construction.
> What is going to be the best way (heavy consideration on the cost, present
and
> future)to make it somewhat energy effecient. About 60% of the second
floor
> ceiling is batted. The rest is not but does have a suspended ceiling.
I'm
> mainly concerned about the outside walls. Do we stud, insulate and
sheetrock
> the inside or eps and "drive-it" the outside? Or is there a better way?
The
> building is two story, 5k per floor. Help! By the way, we're in
Oklahoma, so
> the summer sun is a definite consideration.
> Respectfully,
> Ron Moore
>
"Ron Moore" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm
> mainly concerned about the outside walls. Do we stud, insulate and
sheetrock
> the inside or eps and "drive-it" the outside? Or is there a better way?
Either way will work. If you want to spruce up the outside, the Dryvit
system may be the best way.
If you are looking to keep heat in more than heat out, I'd go with inside
insulation. Remember, the block walls will act as a heatsink. The summer
sun will warm them up, making the eps/Dryvit system appealing, but in the
winter, you'd have to heat the walls some before the insulation becomes
effective.
Are the block walls inside OK appearance wise? If you want to spruce up the
shop a bit, eps sheets (or any other insulation) on the inside, then
sheetrock will do. Since the walls are already structurally sound, the
studs can be 24" centers.
OTOH, consider how you will be mounting any shelves or cabinets on the
inside and frame accordingly.
Ed
[email protected]
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome