In article <[email protected]>, charlie b
<[email protected]> wrote:
> # Fred # wrote:
>
> > I bet you a lot of existing computers and devices that's running on XP now
> > won't work when the new Vista OS comes out - just like switching from Win 98
> > to XP.
> >
> > I also have more than a dozen of devices and systems (computers, graphics
> > cards, xy-plotters, printers, digitizers, printers - you name it) that were
> > orphaned every time a new OS comes out. From CPM to DOS, from DOS to Win
> > 3.x, from Win3.x to Win98, from Win98 to WinXP and so on. Every upgrade
> > means some device or system become unusable and I don't think the
> > Compucarver is all that different.
>
> Now if you were on a Mac . . .
>
> I do all my diagrams, line art illustrations and other drawings with
> an
> application called SuperPaint from Aldus (bought out by Adobe). The
> last upgrade, the one I still use, was copyrighted 1993! Now granted
> I
> have to use "legacy mode" - I think that's what it's called, when
> running
"Classic", properly.
> OS X, but I can still use it. That's four major OS updates (6-10)
> and it's
> been on a Quadra 630 - a 68040 cpu and now on a G3 - that's four
> cpu upgrades.
>
> Am keeping the G# just in case the new duo Macs won't handle
> SuperPaint.
The Intel Macs won't run Classic, I'm using a program called
"Sheepshaver" to run OS 9.0.4 on my Intel iMac.
>
> charlie b
Elliott wrote:
> Anyone have one? or used one. I am seeing it advertised on TV, but they
> are not in Sear's stores locally. Priced at $1900 and
> special order.
> Appreciate any views or information on this machine.
> Photos of carvings done look very ornate and are computer composed and
> driven.
> Thanks, Glenn
I am afraid that machinery like that is simply to 'create' a whole
whack of easily identifiable crap-art.
Coat-rack appliqu=E9s that will make me puke. It will, soon enough,
start to remind us of those plaques with a 1/4" of clear shit poured
all over them, right beside the torch-burned pictures of dogs playing
poker. Like plastic antler handles on tin letter openers.
What else will that thing do?
I would put the money towards a Multi Router and start producing
something worth-while.... or better yet, a jBot?
r
Robatoy wrote:
> Elliott wrote:
> > Anyone have one? or used one. I am seeing it advertised on TV, but they
> > are not in Sear's stores locally. Priced at $1900 and
> > special order.
> > Appreciate any views or information on this machine.
> > Photos of carvings done look very ornate and are computer composed and
> > driven.
> > Thanks, Glenn
>
> I am afraid that machinery like that is simply to 'create' a whole
> whack of easily identifiable crap-art.
> Coat-rack appliqu=E9s that will make me puke. It will, soon enough,
> start to remind us of those plaques with a 1/4" of clear shit poured
> all over them, right beside the torch-burned pictures of dogs playing
> poker. Like plastic antler handles on tin letter openers.
> What else will that thing do?
> I would put the money towards a Multi Router and start producing
> something worth-while.... or better yet, a jBot?
You could also look at it as a time saver. If you use a drill to hog
out a mortise before using your chisels, the CompuCarver could
similarly do the drudge prep work before hitting the piece with the
craftsmanly hand tool carving skills.
R
I have not seen the Compucarver in the flesh. It strikes me however, a
woodworker could buy a lot more useful tools for $1.900. Unless one has
a dedicated use for such a machine I suspect it will land up in a dark
corner of the shop accumulating a good coat of dust.
Joe G
Elliott wrote:
> Anyone have one? or used one. I am seeing it advertised on TV, but they
> are not in Sear's stores locally. Priced at $1900 and
> special order.
> Appreciate any views or information on this machine.
> Photos of carvings done look very ornate and are computer composed and
> driven.
> Thanks, Glenn
# Fred # wrote:
> I wouldn't mind getting one but couple of things I'm concern about. One is
> reliability. Also the controller board may cost an arm and leg to replace
> few years down the road - don't know, just my guess. Could be obsolete in a
> few short years when new and improved operating system won't support the
> software routine.
As a software developer, let me say that this is highly unlikely. If
the software is win32 based, it will be quite some time before that's
not supported anymore, i'd guess in the 5 to 10 year range. If it's
dotnet based (which is more likely) it will be around much longer.
brian
I'm not even gonna read the other posts. If it has any uses for anyone I'd
say it is a step in the right direction. At that price, I wish they made
all tools with nc, cnc, dnc capability. I don't know what tools it can
use, and I don't know what z- axis travel it has, and I don' t know what x
and y axis travel it has. The accuracy and repeatability wouldn't neeed to
be tremendous and it would sure be a time saver. The whole theory is not
gimmickry, there is beyond belief potential, but most wouldn't go for it, or
even consider learning it. It could be taught easily. Not is not a comment
on Crafstman. For both metal and wood industries there is a well
established language(s) to get these kind of things up and running, and
doing various things, and the APT or graphics part just does in visually, it
still still spits out the same code language, called post processing.
ANSI/EIA RS-274-D-1980 (G code). In industries that actually need this
technology, this would be kind of a paperweight, but not a useless novelty.
btw, I am pretty sure this m/c's nc language is indeciferable, and
(possibly/prob) unusable. As is, prob, its potential to actually do much,
unless you actualy need to do what it does, is limited. btw, machines can
have digital potioning readout, .001 or .0001 on the machine, or add-on
readouts, and NOT at the same timne be able to control the said position.
Another major bonus on a basic tool; like if your TS told you how far from
the blade you were, say w/i 1/64".
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iow, you can read the program and see if its what you want; you can write
the program in a word processor, and save it as MS DOS TEXT only; its the
same as using GUI; its runs all the same. Space for space.
And it could be a time saver, don't know if it can chuck (drils) for
instance, in metal, if you had a bunch of holes, some CS, some CB, some
normal, some tapered, some reamed smooth and accurate, you could chuck a
pilot drill, chuck a drill, chuck a countersink, chuck a counterbore, chuck
a smoothing reamer, chuck a drill, and it does the right order to the right
positions to the right depths sequentially. It would (possibly) just coem
"home" for a tool change. It could limit the amount of work on some
features. In industry you chuck a chuck with the drill in it, and have to
set thevalue of each offset of z-axis of each and set it into the memory and
when you right a line of code you put in rpm, x&y-position, and z-depth, it
accomodate algebraically for the offset of the tool. Numbers written may or
not eppear theoretically. It is designed not to be confusing. Same
principal with the position of the blank when you load it. Accuracy is
maintained by using a known accurate corner/hole, or allowing for trimming
to using fixtures; rather than using "drill jigs".
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J T wrote:
> Thu, Jan 4, 2007, 10:21pm (EST-1) [email protected] (Elliott) doth query:
> Anyone have one? or used one. I am seeing it advertised on TV, <snip>
> any views <snip>
>
> Yeah, I saw it on the tube too. Thought it was pretty neat. Then
> thought about it for a minute, and realized, about all it would be good
> for is mass producing pukey duck type stuff, the type they sell in the
> catalogs you get in the maik. That's the only real use I cn figure for
> one. What's the fun in that I ask? Can't afford one anyway, but I'd
> pass even if I did.
I don't think it's going to mass produce anything. If you read reviews
on it, while people love the thing, it takes a while to do some
designs, 3-5 HOURS.
# Fred # wrote:
> "brianlanning" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> ># Fred # wrote:
> >> I wouldn't mind getting one but couple of things I'm concern about. One
> >> is
> >> reliability. Also the controller board may cost an arm and leg to replace
> >> few years down the road - don't know, just my guess. Could be obsolete in
> >> a
> >> few short years when new and improved operating system won't support the
> >> software routine.
> >
> > As a software developer, let me say that this is highly unlikely. If
> > the software is win32 based, it will be quite some time before that's
> > not supported anymore, i'd guess in the 5 to 10 year range. If it's
> > dotnet based (which is more likely) it will be around much longer.
> >
> > brian
> >
>
> I bet you a lot of existing computers and devices that's running on XP now
> won't work when the new Vista OS comes out - just like switching from Win 98
> to XP.
>
> I also have more than a dozen of devices and systems (computers, graphics
> cards, xy-plotters, printers, digitizers, printers - you name it) that were
> orphaned every time a new OS comes out. From CPM to DOS, from DOS to Win
> 3.x, from Win3.x to Win98, from Win98 to WinXP and so on. Every upgrade
> means some device or system become unusable and I don't think the
> Compucarver is all that different.
The way the machine works is that your design is saved onto a ram
drive, which then plugs into the machine. The machine is not directly
hooked up to your PC.
XP has several mechanisms built in to run 16 bit apps. I've yet to
have one work correctly. If your plotter doesn't work, it's because
your plotter manufacturer abandoned writing drivers for it, not because
XP is screwy.
Even when the code is std. readable , and recognisable using lines and arcs,
following through becomes impossible. There are built in "canned cycles'
which can take care of your every whim, such as pulling out at intervals to
remove chips when drilling a hole as a simple example, and it simplifies the
task by not having to fill in the details along the way. Depths of cut of
each pass can be specified,a nd the last can be a "special" finish cut, all
built in . Say when turning the length of a cylinder. Theres a diameter
turning canned cycle, and all you have to do is specify the final diameter
when sorting out the in program order, and the post processor will fil in
all the lines of the code with all the numbers and the single steps, with
all the variables. It can be dozens, hundreds, thousands of lines when
post processed. When dealing with a model, a 3D surface, you can't write
it, you DRAW the part first and then point to it with the mouse pointer, and
then all the lines of the program are generated. I wouldn' t think that
reading/learning/following the code in this machine would be possible,
especially since it is a carving machine. It also maybe somewhat paint by
numbers, as mentioned earlier, which could also simplify things greatly.
APT is standing at the machine control panel interface drawing by numbers
for a quick part definition.
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nc is numerical control, cnc is computer numerical control, dnc is direct
numerical control. Control may be the important word here. In practice, if
a computer is involved it is likely that the part was "modeled" first by
drawing it with a CAD or CAD/CAM program. even a standalone CAD program can
model a part with vector graphics, and export it using a .dxf (hmm...), IGES
or other file format, and imported into a post processor to create a G-code
program. APT is standing at the m/cs control panel drawing by nimbers for
a quick part. It may be considered cnc. Rarely would a program be written
in G-code -it would be done in alphanumeric in a word processor and saved as
MS DOS txt only format. Most operations use APT or model the part at the
computer then upload to the machines CP using an RS-232-C interface. nc may
not use code, not sure. Machines with a digital readout of positioning to
correspond to manual input of slides may not be "control" at all. Not sure.
DNC is when there is a central computer, where all of the codes and/or
models which have been post-processed into codes, which is attached directly
with cable/wire to a or many machines, are uploaded directly into the CP of
the m/c. Threre may be some electronics in the control panel aspect that
may stay at the pooter and/or in the CP of the *nc m/c adding to the
definition.
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how much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood
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yes, I guess it may be inverse in the ww field ,where not a lot isn't
self-evident w/r/t features. Impossible with any 3D stuff. Not that there
isn't 3D involved, but on a etch-a-sketch level. I bet one ornamental
mantel "wing" in the compucarver is thousands of lines long, and probably
not even know code if code is even available.
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This is not in reference to you, but I am getting totally sick of people
complaining about responding directly to them. Its an imperfect world. I
can't even begin to explain this. Maybe I should do a terse thread. This
thread is 30 messages long, and half way down its indented all th eway to
the right then goes back again. If people are not respomding one after the
other, how did it get this tangent. I could not get under the original
topic + sign if I tried. If I want to put a message at that point, and
don't want date to affect its placement, like put it down after all th
eother people who are gonna want to respond at that point in order, the
order I want, what the heck am I gonna do. If I don't, my post is gone.
Its not your ng. If I was commenting on you and I said something wrong, ok,
but gimme a break. What else can I do? This pisses me off, as I get
slammed all the time by some paranoid who thinks I've crossed them.
Anyways, I have no idea what you're talking about. Hey, I'm nt perfect. I
can understand getting pissed off. And I personally never quote the message
preceeding, unless a piece is needed. Why not just quote the whole thread?
In this case, the only message I saw from JT before my message was:
Thu, Jan 4, 2007, 10:21pm (EST-1) [email protected] (Elliott) doth query:
Anyone have one? or used one. I am seeing it advertised on TV, <snip>
any views <snip>
Yeah, I saw it on the tube too. Thought it was pretty neat. Then
thought about it for a minute, and realized, about all it would be good
for is mass producing pukey duck type stuff, the type they sell in the
catalogs you get in the maik. That's the only real use I cn figure for
one. What's the fun in that I ask? Can't afford one anyway, but I'd
pass even if I did.
JOAT
To listen is an effort, and just to hear is no merit. A duck hears
also.
- Igor Stravinsky
As far as I'm concerned this whole thing never happened. Right.
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can you remind all that this is either serious, or humorous, and not to
confuse the two, or me with all this extra crap. I have no trouble dealing
with all three, or a combination. None is a little to extreme, even for me.
Lives of great men all remind us
We may make our lives sublime
But in parting leave behind us
Footprints in the sands of time
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On Thu, 11 Jan 2007 00:35:43 -0500, "bent" <[email protected]> wrote:
>do I really need this?
How much repeat carving are you going to do.
Yes I am a smart ass.
Weird sense of humor too.
Mark
(sixoneeight) = 618
Mon, Jan 8, 2007, 10:08pm [email protected] (bent) did burble:
This is not in reference to you, but I am getting totally sick of people
complaining about responding directly to them. Its an imperfect world. I
can't even begin to explain this. Maybe I should do a terse thread. This
thread is 30 messages long, and half way down its indented all th eway
to the right then goes back again. If people are not respomding one
after the other, how did it get this tangent. <snip of the rest>
Either you're just not getting it, or you're a troll in training.
I decided to read some the posts following, before replying; you totally
lost all credibility, as far as I'm concerned.
JOAT
To listen is an effort, and just to hear is no merit. A duck hears
also.
- Igor Stravinsky
On Thu, 11 Jan 2007 12:57:55 -0500, "bent" <[email protected]> wrote:
>None is a little to extreme, even for me.
Big problem is that the only one who knows what or who you are
replying to is you. No quoting, no context for others.
Mark
(sixoneeight) = 618
ok, so maybe you weren't blasting me for posting out of order specifically,
but for something. In this thread, before this post, I had responded 17
times, 201 lines, 2294 words, 12 743 characters. Then, only because you
decided to post after me, not because of me, did I find your post claiming
that I was techno-babbling about something. Had it not been where it was
and you had not reprinted the whole thing I wouldn't have any idea what was
going on . Good.
No idea. Check your dates. Or interrogations.
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btw, if you want to point me to the relevant details on the correct syntax
for posting. Particularly the part where it says date should be
excluded....ah, shhh; you didn't say that.
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This is a (hopefully last) response (by me, bent) to post made by by JT on
08/01/2007 8:19PM where he blasted me for making fun of him by using the
similar words "etch-a-sketch", and bringing up the "why are you responding
to me" problem. My ((2) etch a sketch comment(s) were made 07/01/2007 at
5PM +/-4 mins. Though on my computer, JTs "etch-a-sketch" comment, the
original "etch-a-sketch" comment comes farther down this posts thread, it is
nonetheless dated 06/01/2007 1:23PM, prior to both the offense noted and
offense (alleged)
If everyone posted as I often post this would never happen. If you are
pointing out something to someone immediately preceedeing, just make it
known. Its a post-order thing, not an attack. If text is needed, I include
it, otherwise I drop it. Most of the posts I have in here, though generally
an addition to what I have said before, do not require an explanation.
Yet you acuse me of being rude:
Well, because you reerenced etch-a-sketch, it's possible you're
referring to the post I made. But, it's really impossible to say for
sure, because you don't bother saying to whom, and what post, you're
responding to. That's just plain rude.
I'm not suggesting I'm just saying, if everyone were to use reply to group
by highlighting the previous post in time, not the one a few up, or the one
at the top, things would sort better, and things wouldn't be condfused with
posts said at one time posted weay down in the sorting order. I am assuming
you didn't receive an e-mail (if you did it is unintentional). While in the
mean time, if I try to keep this clear,everyone is gonna blast me for
criticising them!! It is space and time, it is not someones newsgroup to
dictate you cannot post after someone, especially since NO IDEA. How am I
come to make a comment about someone else making a comment about a comment I
made about that same somewone. The reference to the offending words were
made first, but appear last. The only way to make this work is for everyone
to either never or always use the same posting proceedure. Which is the one
thast makes sense? The one that uses order and date, or the one that uses
date only? I actually don't know - i'm trying to figure it out. Anyone,
can you help.
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this is to do with the origin of my use of the term "etch-a-sketch". In a
computer controlled m/c, say a compucarver, say you can put in a spinning in
the x-y plane round-head router bit. Next say that you have to draw the
part that you have to machine (with the round head router bit), OR you can
write the code. If the part where to look like a square 3D cube, you would
have to direct the cutter head to pivot/reposition its spinning axis into
the x-z and y-z planes. Say you have to draw the part in the 3 standard
principle orthographinc drawing views, Front, Top, and Right. To include
all the features you have to image looking form an infinite distance away
from F, T, or R positions, and include all the hidden lines (in the drawing)
for machining. Imagine the object was a porsch 911. You do not make an
infinite number of views so all points of the features of the car are
perpedicular to the page. So how do you draw a front fender from the back
of the car? No object has labels, just best for making the drawing, and
back (of the car) can mean Left view in this example. You imagine what a
drop of water would do if it landed on the very highest position of the line
of that feature. As it follows gravity. You follow it, with your
pencil/cursor. You have to either code yourself, or draw all features.
This is as basic as it gets. btw JT I don't expect nothing, cept maybe
constructive critism.
bent:
Rarely would a program be written in G-code.
Morris Dovey:
Eh? I'd guess that depends on the operation. More than 95% of the part
programs used in my shop are hand-coded (I hand code 100% of the
g-code part programs).
bent:
yes, I guess it may be inverse in the ww field ,where not a lot isn't
self-evident w/r/t features. Impossible with any 3D stuff. Not that there
isn't 3D involved, but on a etch-a-sketch level. I bet one ornamental
mantel "wing" in the compucarver is thousands of lines long, and probably
not even know code if code is even available.
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(Even I can see now; overall) why this could/should/would help, it doesn't
solve the problem, but what do you mean by attribution?: By name?:
mentioning the immediately preeeding poster, or poster you are respondidng
to. "To the group?"
I often think I am just giving info, don't even think about sentence
structure, TWIMC ,and as previously stated is.... "about the topic"
QQQ
What is attribution
aww forget it
Overall I hope someone learned something, besides me.
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Personally, I'm learning more and more about less and less uintil eventually
I'll know everything about nothing.
Maybe I'm dyslexic savant. If I filter out everything others have to say,
I'll have everything I need to know.
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I've also been told not to ask more than one question at a time, and to
number them. As if more information is bad, or one can't remember what the
question is/was. I don't know what you said, whats yur question, theres too
much information, only one question. Number these. Don't ask any
questions. Uhhh, I can't help you. Leave me alone.
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oh, that was for B A R R Y about what we were talking about before. I hope
you see this in a timely fasion, and it answers your question
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Sometimes it gets out of hand, but generally speaking I can go back and fill
in the gray areas with simple text in brackets and it all makes sense.
There is anything really important missing. Just a lot of it. Maybe I'll
think along these lines in the future. I'm not on the subject of rocket
science, and I don't want to feel scared about saying something (obvious
afterall) quickly.
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it very obvious you have nothing better to do than follow me around
correcting my synatx and grammar
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The OP is complaining about the content, someone else is pissed off about
some other.
All I can say is I am a man of steel. I do the best I can at all times. I
build cars. Please do not not treat me badly wherever I go.
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Tue, Jan 9, 2007, 11:03pm [email protected] (bent) now burble:
Sometimes it gets out of hand, but generally speaking I can go back and
fill in the gray areas with simple text in brackets and it all makes
sense. There is anything really important missing. Just a lot of it.
Maybe I'll think along these lines in the future. I'm not on the subject
of rocket science, and I don't want to feel scared about saying
something (obvious afterall) quickly.
"Generally", eh?
Which means that you "often" don't know what's going on.
"There is anything really important missing. Just a lot of it."
What the Hell is that supposed to mean?
"I don't want to feel scared about saying something (obvious
afterall) quickly."
Well, looks like you're sure not scared of saying something stupid.
Quickly.
JOAT
To listen is an effort, and just to hear is no merit. A duck hears
also.
- Igor Stravinsky
Sun, Jan 7, 2007, 4:56pm [email protected] (bent) wndered in and mumbled:
yes, I guess it may be inverse in the ww field ,where not a lot isn't
self-evident w/r/t features. Impossible with any 3D stuff. Not that
there isn't 3D involved, but on a etch-a-sketch level. I bet one
ornamental mantel "wing" in the compucarver is thousands of lines long,
and probably not even know code if code is even available.
Well, because you reerenced etch-a-sketch, it's possible you're
referring to the post I made. But, it's really impossible to say for
sure, because you don't bother saying to whom, and what post, you're
responding to. That's just plain rude.
If by some remote chance you actually were responding to my post,
you assumed my post was very deep and meaningful - and responded with
techno babble.
Nest time just try face value, don't try to read a lot into it. An
etch-a-sketch is a pretty neat, but not really complex, toy; fun, but
pretty much worthless for anything useful, besides amusement. My
comment about the compucarver meant it's basically a fancy equivalent of
an etch-a-sketch - that's it.
JOAT
To listen is an effort, and just to hear is no merit. A duck hears
also.
- Igor Stravinsky
bent wrote:
| (Even I can see now; overall) why this could/should/would help, it
| doesn't
| solve the problem, but what do you mean by attribution?: By name?:
| mentioning the immediately preeeding poster, or poster you are
| respondidng
| to. "To the group?"
|
| I often think I am just giving info, don't even think about sentence
| structure, TWIMC ,and as previously stated is.... "about the topic"
|
| QQQ
| What is attribution
| aww forget it
|
| Overall I hope someone learned something, besides me.
Look at the top line of /this/ post. Any doubt about who wrote the
stuff I'm responding to? That line ("bent wrote:") makes clear that
it's your post I'm quoting and responding to. That line attributes
(gives you credit for) the quoted stuff.
Not all posts show up on all news servers; and posts that do show up
don't necessarily appear in the order that they're sent (someone on
the other side of the world - or even down the block might not see
this post for a half hour after I send it).
The attribution helps to clarify who wrote what. If you snip all of
the previous post(s) and/or remove the attribution(s), it begins to
appear that you're having a somewhat strange discussion with just
yourself. This makes readers antsy and, if continued, they'll begin
ignoring what you write. It has about the same value as eye contact in
a face-to-face discussion.
FWIW, grammar and spelling do count on usenet. There are no language
police; but the ability to express a thought coherently and correctly
contribute to credibility - almost as much as knowing what you're
talking about. :-)
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto
I don't know anything about the machine. I have brought up a lot. Have you
checked (maybe the sales promo page), the tooling it can use. The travel?
If there was a ng for this machine it would all be written about this stuff;
its code or on the subject of CAD. If it involved neither there would be no
need for the newsgroup at all. I have explained all this.
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bent wrote:
<snip>
> I actually don't know - i'm trying to figure it out. Anyone,
> can you help.
Quoting William James Hall from Harvard University in an article
entitled "A Quick Guide to Newsgroup Etiquette",
"When you are following up someone's article, please summarize the parts
of the article to which you are responding. This allows readers to
appreciate your comments rather than trying to remember what the
original article said. Summarizing on usenet is generally done by
quoting excerpts of the original post. Quoted material is usually
indicated by > marks at the beginnings of lines."
See:
http://www.wjh.harvard.edu/soc-sci/netiquette.html
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]
----- BENT scribbled: ---------
> If everyone posted as I often post this would never happen. If you are
> pointing out something to someone immediately preceedeing, just make it
> known. Its a post-order thing, not an attack.
Posts often get to Usenet servers at different times, if at all. Don't
assume what you see as a thread is what others will see.
> Most of the posts I have in here, though generally
> an addition to what I have said before, do not require an explanation.
I often have no idea what you're referring to, so I skip your post.
> Anyone,
> can you help.
>
Sure! Do you see how I left only the information I'm referencing? Try
it! <G>
White (empty / blank) space between thoughts is also a valuable tool.
Barry
in a metal part even an etch-a-sketch part program can be huge, and even
though simple, copying the code can endless, with all the passes, without
an APT, or canned cycles, or something to fill it in. How long are your
programs, what initialization scheme is required (how much code involved),
what machines can/do you use with code, , and how do you base the code (e.g.
copied like the one before), and you use nothing but a Word Processor?
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is it a a kind of block stop optional thing, where say on a TS-type thing,
you can get the fence to roll into position and hold there until, either the
sheets are pushed through by hand? or mechanically, and then you run a
little bit (more) of the program at the next position, repeat, through
"blocks" of the program?
In metal, everything is done: lights, secutity system, shipping, receiving,
transport, speed, coolant, tool change, tool wear checks, SPC quality
control (intermittent check of parts), rough & finish, auto clamping
fixturing and part loading, pallette change and rotate, you know.
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I may be mistaken about the need for for much more than on the fly parts in
a lot of places, given the potential. $100G quickly makes sense if only to
turn all day to a differnet Dia. from std. stock. It s the real big dollar
industry setups, where a $mil is what that job running through there is,
where they have AGVs that retrieve anything/everything up to including 30'
long 3' Dia. bars off revolving computer controlled stock racks, and load
steel pieces than are dozens of cubic feet on m/cs, that are impressive, and
can do everything.
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charlie b wrote:
>
> Now if you were on a Mac . . .
>
> I do all my diagrams, line art illustrations and other drawings with
> an
> application called SuperPaint from Aldus (bought out by Adobe). The
> last upgrade, the one I still use, was copyrighted 1993!
I thought I recognized the artwork you posted the otherday (your shop
layout) as something from a Classic mac environment. SuperPaint was a
staple in my toolbox for many years. I did buy into MiniCAD in 1988. (M
the 'Mini', as in MiniCAD, is actually a moniker from the 'mini'
computers which were basically the size of a washer/dryer combo)
After many of us complained to the company, Nemetschek (
http://www.nemetschek.net/ ) they ended up changing the name to
Vectorworks. After the program became dongled and pricey, and they
wanted just too much for upgrades, I decided to keep a G3 (Blue &
White) just for MiniCAD 7.
Vectorworks has all the balls of AutoCAD which is even pricier. It is a
great modeller too with fabulous rendering abilities.
For a fantastic freebie, look into Google's Sketch-Up. (Native OSX)
For quickies, I used MacDraw for the longest time.
>Now granted
> I
> have to use "legacy mode" - I think that's what it's called, when
> running
> OS X, but I can still use it. That's four major OS updates (6-10)
> and it's
> been on a Quadra 630 - a 68040 cpu and now on a G3 - that's four
> cpu upgrades.
I ran an 840AV for years and years. I just loved that thing. It took a
G3 to tear me away from it.
>
> Am keeping the G# just in case the new duo Macs won't handle
> SuperPaint.
>
I still have an LCIII, which I basically use as a floppy drive
(Ethernetted to my G4) because sometimes I need a font or something.
Now I am awaiting Jobs' announcement before I hit the 'Put In My
Basket' button. Maybe he'll release Leopard tomorrow, that way I won't
have to buy it in the spring.
May the Farce be with you.
r
I spent 1 yr. in university engineering, then two at a college with honors
to get a licence to use AutoCAD and MasterCAM. Think they're using Pro/E at
that top C now. I wasted my time, but I understood everything you said, and
could definetely pick it up. I bet you're scratching your head as to what
to do if you get sick! Pretty deep waters, and deep pockets needed. a few
simple leasons in AutoCAD is one thing (well worth it if you can get it),
but it is out of hand. If you need people you could try one of those small
independant schools. I went there. They have social assistance people, and
workers' comp, insurance, etc. And new to Canadas. Not many places, but
everyone was already proficient w/ Pro/E
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oh ya, my point was, they were mostly out of work engineers who knew what
they were doing. stuck, some, i guess. Given th ealternatives, a good
option, if not the only one.
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# Fred # wrote:
> I bet you a lot of existing computers and devices that's running on XP now
> won't work when the new Vista OS comes out - just like switching from Win 98
> to XP.
This is highly unlikely. The vast majority of windows software these
days is either win32 based or dotnet based. None of that is changing
between XP and vista.
> I also have more than a dozen of devices and systems (computers, graphics
> cards, xy-plotters, printers, digitizers, printers - you name it) that were
> orphaned every time a new OS comes out. From CPM to DOS, from DOS to Win
> 3.x, from Win3.x to Win98, from Win98 to WinXP and so on. Every upgrade
> means some device or system become unusable and I don't think the
> Compucarver is all that different.
This is a driver issue. Drivers are written by the manufacturer, not
microsoft. In this case, there aren't any windows drivers to worry
about since the software isn't controlling the device directly.
brian
I was thinking of the Pro/E CAD stream. It was full of engineers, a lot
licensed in other countries, some just out of U of T. Pro/E is huge for
all things without a brand name. GM is unigraphics, SDRC is Ford, Crysler
is CATIA I think. CAD/CAE/anything. There are dozens, hundreds of apps in
Pro/E such as Pro Piping, Pro nc, Pro Electrical for all. Not for the faint
of heart. Few would know nc where I went to learn Pro/E, but there are
independant schools with just that, specific to maching/codes/CAM. The
Pro/E course I took was full days for 3 months, and with no syllabus, a
waste for anyone not at engineering level, or a full knowledge of
Pro/Ealready - me. Prob. 5 digit price. I didn't take high school
seriously until grade 11 is my deduction. I need one, no excuses. My 25
credite colllege course-honours (vs. 40 in University engineering) however
was my speed, with courses in CAD or CAD/CAM, math, theory and practical,
several hand written G-code credits, and G-code/ CAD/CAM applications such
as creating jigs and fixtures. I have several 1-1/2" binders full of
hundreds of just hand written programs ,with all supporting documentation,
and tabbed into projects. Easier for open book exams. In exams we hand to
create complete G-codes for parts and were allowed to use sub-routines and
whatever machines. Anyways, if there is such a thing as an out of work,
work for cheap, capable, trustworthy, reliable, go-getter ready to go, that
knows machining/codes (in wood) fire everyone. Keep in mind though that
proven in a big study involving the big engineering universtities MIT, etc..
"85% of engineers are in business" after 7 to 10 years, and those that
aren't consider themselves the least succesful. I learned what that means
by working in such a company. In an established company with several
divisions, they put their license on the line regularly by just seeing the
paperwork of shipping/receiving, suppliers, purchase orders and reading and
signing off on business. They are also whio talks to the big cheese, goes
to meetings, and takes all engineering technical investigations... The guys
I saw weren't there, or couldn't get back there, for whatever reason. Or
you could put an add in the paper and see who'll take it.
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"Anyone have one? or used one"
Apparently not. After 44 posts in response only one writer
seemed to have something to offer of a relevant nature - the web site
of the Carvewright! http://www.carvewright.com/
But there are 44 opinions left by folks who never touched the machine
much less watched it work or operated it.
Well, you said "Any", didn't you? "Appreciate any views or information
on this machine"
Elliott wrote:
> Anyone have one? or used one. I am seeing it advertised on TV, but they
> are not in Sear's stores locally. Priced at $1900 and
> special order.
> Appreciate any views or information on this machine.
> Photos of carvings done look very ornate and are computer composed and
> driven.
> Thanks, Glenn
obviously, on the subject of posting in order, I know what I'm talking
about, right
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I hope I'm not the only one who's priority sort is by date so what's at top
is what's current. And I do appologize to those without a news provider,
and newsreader, and for the state of the economy, global warming, etc.
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I'm only too happy to do this:
http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?BV_UseBVCookie=Yes&vertical=TOOL&cat=Bench+Power+Tools&subcat=Jointers%2C+Planers+%26+Shapers&pid=00921754000
Didn't find any forums, 'cept a comment or two.
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For a little more, see the post "cabinet building software", 05/01/2007 4:07
PM
and the link form there:
http://www.holzher.com/seite33.htm
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Thu, Jan 4, 2007, 10:21pm (EST-1) [email protected] (Elliott) doth query:
Anyone have one? or used one. I am seeing it advertised on TV, <snip>
any views <snip>
Yeah, I saw it on the tube too. Thought it was pretty neat. Then
thought about it for a minute, and realized, about all it would be good
for is mass producing pukey duck type stuff, the type they sell in the
catalogs you get in the maik. That's the only real use I cn figure for
one. What's the fun in that I ask? Can't afford one anyway, but I'd
pass even if I did.
JOAT
To listen is an effort, and just to hear is no merit. A duck hears
also.
- Igor Stravinsky
On Thu, 4 Jan 2007 22:21:54 -0600, [email protected] (Elliott) wrote:
>Anyone have one? or used one. I am seeing it advertised on TV, but they
>are not in Sear's stores locally. Priced at $1900 and
>special order.
>Appreciate any views or information on this machine.
>Photos of carvings done look very ornate and are computer composed and
>driven.
There was a thread on this about a week ago. It's a rebranded item,
have a look at:
http://www.carvewright.com/
I dled the trial software and it seemed to me like it was more about
combining pre-existing patterns than creating new ones, but didn't
really get into it.
-Leuf
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I have not seen the Compucarver in the flesh. It strikes me however, a
> woodworker could buy a lot more useful tools for $1.900. Unless one has
> a dedicated use for such a machine I suspect it will land up in a dark
> corner of the shop accumulating a good coat of dust.
> Joe G
> Elliott wrote:
>> Anyone have one? or used one. I am seeing it advertised on TV, but they
>> are not in Sear's stores locally. Priced at $1900 and
>> special order.
>> Appreciate any views or information on this machine.
>> Photos of carvings done look very ornate and are computer composed and
>> driven.
>> Thanks, Glenn
>
I can see some uses for this, especially for someone who has no artistic
ability. I played around with the software some, you can import images and
create your own. Of course, if you don't have the artistic ability in the
first place...
Overall I wouldn't spend that kind of money on this machine.
Fri, Jan 5, 2007, 11:12pm [email protected] (Panic) doth sayeth:
I can see some uses for this, especially for someone who has no artistic
ability. I played around with the software some, you can import images
and create your own. Of course, if you don't have the artistic ability
in the first place..<snip>.
Ah. In other words, an Etch-A-Sketch for wood.
JOAT
To listen is an effort, and just to hear is no merit. A duck hears
also.
- Igor Stravinsky
bent wrote:
> Punch cards
>
>
>
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The unit is in the current craftsman club sales flyer. Sale price is
1800, 1700 for club members.
# Fred # wrote:
> I bet you a lot of existing computers and devices that's running on XP now
> won't work when the new Vista OS comes out - just like switching from Win 98
> to XP.
>
> I also have more than a dozen of devices and systems (computers, graphics
> cards, xy-plotters, printers, digitizers, printers - you name it) that were
> orphaned every time a new OS comes out. From CPM to DOS, from DOS to Win
> 3.x, from Win3.x to Win98, from Win98 to WinXP and so on. Every upgrade
> means some device or system become unusable and I don't think the
> Compucarver is all that different.
Now if you were on a Mac . . .
I do all my diagrams, line art illustrations and other drawings with
an
application called SuperPaint from Aldus (bought out by Adobe). The
last upgrade, the one I still use, was copyrighted 1993! Now granted
I
have to use "legacy mode" - I think that's what it's called, when
running
OS X, but I can still use it. That's four major OS updates (6-10)
and it's
been on a Quadra 630 - a 68040 cpu and now on a G3 - that's four
cpu upgrades.
Am keeping the G# just in case the new duo Macs won't handle
SuperPaint.
charlie b
bent wrote:
| in a metal part even an etch-a-sketch part program can be huge,
| and even though simple, copying the code can endless, with all
| the passes, without an APT, or canned cycles, or something to
| fill it in. How long are your programs,
Typically, fewer than a thousand lines. I do make heavy use of
looping, subroutine calls, and confess to having hacked the controller
code to invoke external programs to generate part program fragments
that are executed on-the-fly and then discarded.
| what initialization scheme is required (how much code involved),
Not much - and I've written nearly all of the initialization code I'm
using today. It's not unusual for my programs to start out by
"discovering" the location (and sometimes the orientation) of the
workpiece.
| what machines can/do you use with code,
I code for a ShopBot in that company's proprietary part language -
which isn't a whole lot different from g-code except that it uses
symbolic names for both variables and line labels - and it opens up
_all_ of the machine parameters to the programmer.
I use strictly g-code for a small CNC router that I built in the shop.
If you browse around at the link below, you can see both machines (and
even some old ShopBot code).
| and how do you base the
| code (e.g. copied like the one before), and you use nothing but a
| Word Processor?
I was a programmer for a long time before I even heard of CNC.
Programmers are said to be a lazy lot - we'll work awfully hard to
avoid ever having to write a program more than once; and I'm probably
one of the laziest...
I've hacked the ShopBot control software to allow a part program to
cause the operating system to load, pass parameters to, and execute an
external program, then give control back to the original part program
so it can continue on. Typically these external programs examine the
parameters and generate a custom part program fragment in a file - and
when the original part program gets control back, it causes the
just-created code to be executed (as if it were a canned cycle or
subroutine call).
Taking this lazy approach has produced a library of re-usable code;
which means that about the only time I need to do any significant
amount of programming is when I do something that I haven't done
before. It isn't a matter of modifying old code to do new jobs in the
sense you describe - I re-use the exact same old code in a new
context.
I do my code writing with gvim, a programming editor from the Unix
world. I've set it up to do color highlighting to make different
elements of the part programs appear in different colored type. It
accepts/produces only ASCII text files.
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto
bent wrote:
| is it a a kind of block stop optional thing, where say on a TS-type
| thing,
| you can get the fence to roll into position and hold there until,
| either the sheets are pushed through by hand? or mechanically, and
| then you run a
| little bit (more) of the program at the next position, repeat,
| through "blocks" of the program?
Sortof. :-)
The whole setup is whatever seems appropriate for the job. Generally,
I fixture as much as I can on the table (manually) and then turn the
machine loose. Fixturing is wildly variable depending on the workpiece
size and material - and might be vacuum or mechanical (anything from
drill press vise to cam clamps to shop-made screw clamps to
double-sided carpet tape or even bolting workpieces down).
Automatic tool changers and loading devices are more expensive than
I've been able to spend for.
| In metal, everything is done: lights, secutity system, shipping,
| receiving, transport, speed, coolant, tool change, tool wear
| checks, SPC quality
| control (intermittent check of parts), rough & finish, auto clamping
| fixturing and part loading, pallette change and rotate, you know.
Yuppers - I'm aware of (if not expert with) a lot of this; but most of
it requires way more resources than I can bring to bear. It'll have to
wait until I have a dollar to spend on the winning lottery ticket.
Meanwhile I just clunk along with my Armstrong loader/unloader/tool
changer...
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto
bent wrote:
| I may be mistaken about the need for for much more than on the fly
| parts in
| a lot of places, given the potential. $100G quickly makes sense if
| only to
| turn all day to a differnet Dia. from std. stock. It s the real
| big dollar industry setups, where a $mil is what that job running
| through there is,
| where they have AGVs that retrieve anything/everything up to
| including 30'
| long 3' Dia. bars off revolving computer controlled stock racks,
| and load
| steel pieces than are dozens of cubic feet on m/cs, that are
| impressive, and
| can do everything.
True - and one of the interesting things that has happened is that the
once prohibitively expensive motion control components have steadily
decreased in price, which has made the basic technology available to a
great many more people.
The little Compucarver is probably a good example. I'm inclined to
believe that it should have been designed to be attached to a
computer; and I think that it could have been offered with an order of
magnitude higher precision - and it certainly should support g-code --
but it still boggles my mind that it's available at a local dry goods
store.
Some people will buy 'em - and they'll complain that the precision
sucks and that the software capabilities are inadequate for serious
work (and they'll be right) - but either the Compucarve folks will get
their act together or else someone else will get it right. It'll
probably happen within 3-5 years; and there'll be a whole new slew of
jokes about the old 'Compucarp' machines.
I'm still mulling over buying one of the little HF mini-mills and
replacing the hand wheels with micro-steppers. Looks like the total
parts cost (including the mill) should be under 1K. Would you have
guessed - ten years ago - that you could have a new CNC mill (of any
size) for under a thousand? Amazing.
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto
bent wrote:
| I bet you're scratching your head as to what to do if
| you get sick! Pretty deep waters, and deep pockets
| needed.
Strange you should put it that way. In August and September I was
fighting a case of shingles (started at the back of my neck and
followed the nerves over the top of my head to settle in and around my
left eye - ugly!) and found myself working one-eyed in the shop. Work
slowed considerably; but didn't (couldn't) stop.
With no pockets at all, if I get really sick, then I'll either get
better or punch out. Either way, it becomes a non-problem - and worry
doesn't make the deep waters any less deep.
Still scratching my head...
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto
Well, the Rockcliff homebuilt machine looks like it can perform as
well as the compucarve machine and cheaper.
$20 for the plans
$70 for the material and parts
$345 to $475 for the stepper motors and control board. Possibly
cheaper depending on where you shop for em
$159 for Mach III software
and a computer with a printer port
That's $594 to $724 depending on how elaborate you get with your
stepper motors
That cost versus the almost $2000 for the Compucarve/Carveright system
makes me say, I'll put in the sweat equity and shop around.
On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 11:47:41 -0500, Mark Blum
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Well there are 10 user ratings at that link and the overall rating from
>those people is 4.5 stars (out of 5). Of those review, 7 of them give
>it a perfect 5-star rating.
>
>It might be of limited usefulness for most of the folks around here,
>but the people who own it seem to like it.
"Elliott" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Anyone have one? or used one. I am seeing it advertised on TV, but they
> are not in Sear's stores locally. Priced at $1900 and
> special order.
> Appreciate any views or information on this machine.
> Photos of carvings done look very ornate and are computer composed and
> driven.
> Thanks, Glenn
>
I wouldn't mind getting one but couple of things I'm concern about. One is
reliability. Also the controller board may cost an arm and leg to replace
few years down the road - don't know, just my guess. Could be obsolete in a
few short years when new and improved operating system won't support the
software routine.
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
says...
> I'm only too happy to do this:
>
> http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?BV_UseBVCookie=Yes&vertical=TOOL&cat=Bench+Power+Tools&subcat=Jointers%2C+Planers+%26+Shapers&pid=00921754000
>
> Didn't find any forums, 'cept a comment or two.
>
Well there are 10 user ratings at that link and the overall rating from
those people is 4.5 stars (out of 5). Of those review, 7 of them give
it a perfect 5-star rating.
It might be of limited usefulness for most of the folks around here,
but the people who own it seem to like it.
"Robatoy" wrote in message
I am afraid that machinery like that is simply to 'create' a whole
whack of easily identifiable crap-art.
Coat-rack appliqués that will make me puke. It will, soon enough,
start to remind us of those plaques with a 1/4" of clear shit poured
all over them, right beside the torch-burned pictures of dogs playing
poker. Like plastic antler handles on tin letter openers.
Whatzamatter, you ain't got no class? You left off the Velvet Elvis in a
neon frame.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 1/02/07
In article <[email protected]>,
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Robatoy" wrote in message
>
> I am afraid that machinery like that is simply to 'create' a whole
> whack of easily identifiable crap-art.
> Coat-rack appliqués that will make me puke. It will, soon enough,
> start to remind us of those plaques with a 1/4" of clear shit poured
> all over them, right beside the torch-burned pictures of dogs playing
> poker. Like plastic antler handles on tin letter openers.
>
> Whatzamatter, you ain't got no class? You left off the Velvet Elvis in a
> neon frame.
LOL Ummmm...what's wrong with a Velvet Elvis in a neon frame? Huh? Huh?
I wish I could hang one right beside The Late-night Diner Of Broken
Dreams with the LED's.
I thought The Mythbusters blowing up the lava lamps was pretty cool.
r
On Fri, 05 Jan 2007 12:34:30 -0500, Leuf <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>There was a thread on this about a week ago. It's a rebranded item,
>have a look at:
>
>http://www.carvewright.com/
>
>I dled the trial software and it seemed to me like it was more about
>combining pre-existing patterns than creating new ones, but didn't
>really get into it.
>
>
>-Leuf
You are the man. In the commercial they make some indication about
being able to demo the software but in typical Sears practice it's
nowhere to be seen on their website.
My only question is why is the software a demo? What would you do
with it without the machine. Kind of dumb.
Thanks for the information,
===========================================================================
Chris
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
"brianlanning" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
># Fred # wrote:
>> I wouldn't mind getting one but couple of things I'm concern about. One
>> is
>> reliability. Also the controller board may cost an arm and leg to replace
>> few years down the road - don't know, just my guess. Could be obsolete in
>> a
>> few short years when new and improved operating system won't support the
>> software routine.
>
> As a software developer, let me say that this is highly unlikely. If
> the software is win32 based, it will be quite some time before that's
> not supported anymore, i'd guess in the 5 to 10 year range. If it's
> dotnet based (which is more likely) it will be around much longer.
>
> brian
>
I bet you a lot of existing computers and devices that's running on XP now
won't work when the new Vista OS comes out - just like switching from Win 98
to XP.
I also have more than a dozen of devices and systems (computers, graphics
cards, xy-plotters, printers, digitizers, printers - you name it) that were
orphaned every time a new OS comes out. From CPM to DOS, from DOS to Win
3.x, from Win3.x to Win98, from Win98 to WinXP and so on. Every upgrade
means some device or system become unusable and I don't think the
Compucarver is all that different.