I am trying to add a 220v 20a circuit to my 1981 Crouse-Hinds CTL load
center. It has (20) 1-inch slots, but has 40 poles and is rated for 40
circuits, using 1/2-inch (tandem) breakers. However, Crouse-Hinds was
bought out more than once, and I am having the devil of a time finding
possible replacement breakers. I don't really want to replace my panel,
so is there a good resource for modern replacement breakers? I can find
1-inch breakers all day, but I need 1/2-inch, as my panel is full of
1-inch breakers.
The sooner I get a new circuit, the sooner I can get my new SawStop 3hp saw!
"scritch" wrote:
>I am trying to add a 220v 20a circuit to my 1981 Crouse-Hinds CTL
>load center. It has (20) 1-inch slots, but has 40 poles and is rated
>for 40 circuits, using 1/2-inch (tandem) breakers. However,
>Crouse-Hinds was bought out more than once, and I am having the devil
>of a time finding possible replacement breakers. I don't really want
>to replace my panel, so is there a good resource for modern
>replacement breakers? I can find 1-inch breakers all day, but I need
>1/2-inch, as my panel is full of 1-inch breakers.
>
> The sooner I get a new circuit, the sooner I can get my new SawStop
> 3hp saw!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
THQP120 = 1P-20A.
THQP230 = 2P-30A
GE C'bkrs.
As mentioned by others, location of the THQP230 is limited in panel
to pick up 240V, so you will have to juggle some c'bkr locations to
get a full panel.
The THQP230 has a mechanical interlock to prevent incorrect
installation
in GE panels, not sure about C-H panels.
After installation, check voltage at output of c'bkr.
Have fun.
Lew
"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> scritch wrote:
>> I am trying to add a 220v 20a circuit to my 1981 Crouse-Hinds CTL load
>> center. It has (20) 1-inch slots, but has 40 poles and is rated for
>> 40 circuits, using 1/2-inch (tandem) breakers. However, Crouse-Hinds
>> was bought out more than once, and I am having the devil of a time
>> finding possible replacement breakers. I don't really want to
>> replace my panel, so is there a good resource for modern replacement
>> breakers? I can
>> find 1-inch breakers all day, but I need 1/2-inch, as my panel is
>> full of 1-inch breakers.
>>
>> The sooner I get a new circuit, the sooner I can get my new SawStop
>> 3hp saw!
>
> Look at the sheet inside the door of your panel - it will list the breaker
> Type(s) that you can use in your panel. Since it's a CH panel, you can
> most likely use Type BR, but it will probably list more than one type that
> will work. These are available right at Home Deopt, Lowes, Ace Hardware -
> literally all over the place. You'll need to replace two full size 120v
> breakers with mini's in order to free up a slot for a 240v breaker.
>
If your panel will take BR breakers, you may have some other options. I have
three panels that take BR, which are the 1" breakers, but they also accept
DNPL, BRH and BT.
You may have to go to a trade supplier that carries this line of breakers
but your panel may take the 1/2" DNPL breakers. You will need a block of
four breakers with the two center ones tied together. They make them that
way, listed as a 15-20-20-15 amp block, the two center breakers will give
you 240 volts at 20 amps. You will need to remove two 1" breakers and use
the two breakers on the outside of the block of four to replace the removed
breakers.
"Doug Miller" wrote:
> A Crouse-Hinds load center is probably compatible with breakers made
> by:
> Murray
> Siemens
> Westinghouse
> Cutler-Hammer
> Bryant
> General Switch
> Challenger
> You can find Siemens at Lowe's, and Cutler-Hammer at ACE Hardware
> IIRC.
------------------------------------------------------
1/2" c'kbrs?
There was a time when only GE offered 1/2" c'kbrs (THQP*** series)
Lew
Greg Guarino <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
> I couldn't tell if he meant that, or if he thought that two half-size
> breakers could be used for a 220V circuit, so I thought I'd clarify.
>
Two half-size breakers *can* be used for a 24V circuit, as long as they are on two different
tandem breakers.
--------------------------
A
Tandem breaker #1
B
--------------------------
C
Tandem breaker #2
D
--------------------------
You can make a 240V circuit using A and D, or B and C -- the simplest way to do this is to
buy a quad unit that has the handle ties already installed at the factory.
scritch <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
> I am trying to add a 220v 20a circuit to my 1981 Crouse-Hinds CTL load
> center. It has (20) 1-inch slots, but has 40 poles and is rated for 40
> circuits, using 1/2-inch (tandem) breakers. However, Crouse-Hinds was
> bought out more than once, and I am having the devil of a time finding
> possible replacement breakers. I don't really want to replace my panel,
> so is there a good resource for modern replacement breakers?
A Crouse-Hinds load center is probably compatible with breakers made by:
Murray
Siemens
Westinghouse
Cutler-Hammer
Bryant
General Switch
Challenger
You can find Siemens at Lowe's, and Cutler-Hammer at ACE Hardware IIRC.
Doug Miller <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> Greg Guarino <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
>
>> I couldn't tell if he meant that, or if he thought that two half-size
>> breakers could be used for a 220V circuit, so I thought I'd clarify.
>>
> Two half-size breakers *can* be used for a 24V circuit, as long as they are on two different
> tandem breakers.
*240V, not 24V
> --------------------------
> A
> Tandem breaker #1
> B
> --------------------------
> C
> Tandem breaker #2
> D
> --------------------------
> You can make a 240V circuit using A and D, or B and C -- the simplest way to do this is to
> buy a quad unit that has the handle ties already installed at the factory.
>
On Thu, 29 Nov 2012 00:13:51 -0500, FrozenNorth
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On 11/28/2012 11:46 PM, Mike M wrote:
>> On Tue, 27 Nov 2012 19:14:07 -0800, scritch <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I am trying to add a 220v 20a circuit to my 1981 Crouse-Hinds CTL load
>>> center. It has (20) 1-inch slots, but has 40 poles and is rated for 40
>>> circuits, using 1/2-inch (tandem) breakers. However, Crouse-Hinds was
>>> bought out more than once, and I am having the devil of a time finding
>>> possible replacement breakers. I don't really want to replace my panel,
>>> so is there a good resource for modern replacement breakers? I can find
>>> 1-inch breakers all day, but I need 1/2-inch, as my panel is full of
>>> 1-inch breakers.
>>>
>>> The sooner I get a new circuit, the sooner I can get my new SawStop 3hp saw!
>>
>> Did a quick qoogle search and some of the CH breakers are obsolete.
>> Doesn't mean they aren't available, they just may be used. Not having
>> the actual breaker designation can't tell you for sure. There are
>> reputable specialty breaker dealers that test before they sell. There
>> are a lot that will fit possibley but listed 1/2 size breaker went
>> thru some listing changes so technically may not be in compliance you
>> have to be sure they are listed for your panel. If the substute is
>> one that's still readily available I woudn't worry to much. I
>> wouldn't use any untested used breaker myself.
>>
>Once it has been tested, who is to say it would pass the test again?
There is that possibility, but I'd say your odds are better that it
will work as designed. There was actually a case here in the NW of
counterfeit circuit breakers being manufactured in China and sold as
new factory breakers.
On Nov 27, 10:42=A0pm, "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Mike Marlow wrote:
> > scritch wrote:
> >> I am trying to add a 220v 20a circuit to my 1981 Crouse-Hinds CTL
> >> load center. =A0It has (20) 1-inch slots, but has 40 poles and is
> >> rated for 40 circuits, using 1/2-inch (tandem) breakers. =A0However,
> >> Crouse-Hinds was bought out more than once, and I am having the
> >> devil of a time finding possible replacement breakers. =A0I don't
> >> really want to replace my panel, so is there a good resource for
> >> modern replacement breakers? =A0I can
> >> find 1-inch breakers all day, but I need 1/2-inch, as my panel is
> >> full of 1-inch breakers.
>
> >> The sooner I get a new circuit, the sooner I can get my new SawStop
> >> 3hp saw!
>
> > Look at the sheet inside the door of your panel - it will list the
> > breaker Type(s) that you can use in your panel. =A0Since it's a CH
> > panel, you can most likely use Type BR, but it will probably list
> > more than one type that will work. =A0These are available right at Home
> > Deopt, Lowes, Ace Hardware - literally all over the place. =A0You'll
> > need to replace two full size 120v breakers with mini's in order to
> > free up a slot for a 240v breaker.
>
> To be more clear - your 240v breaker will take up the space of two full s=
ize
> 120v breakers, as it connects to both of the legs (buss bar) of the incom=
ing
> 240v service.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > If your panel is missing the sheet inside the door, just pull a
> > breaker from a circuit you can live without for the day, and take the
> > breaker to one of those retailers to match up the connection style.
>
> > These are still perfectly modern breakers, and you should have no
> > trouble finding them.
And he'll then need to make room by putting some of his 120V circuits
on the thinner style breakers.
scritch wrote:
> I am trying to add a 220v 20a circuit to my 1981 Crouse-Hinds CTL load
> center. It has (20) 1-inch slots, but has 40 poles and is rated for
> 40 circuits, using 1/2-inch (tandem) breakers. However, Crouse-Hinds
> was bought out more than once, and I am having the devil of a time
> finding possible replacement breakers. I don't really want to
> replace my panel, so is there a good resource for modern replacement
> breakers? I can
> find 1-inch breakers all day, but I need 1/2-inch, as my panel is
> full of 1-inch breakers.
>
> The sooner I get a new circuit, the sooner I can get my new SawStop
> 3hp saw!
Look at the sheet inside the door of your panel - it will list the breaker
Type(s) that you can use in your panel. Since it's a CH panel, you can most
likely use Type BR, but it will probably list more than one type that will
work. These are available right at Home Deopt, Lowes, Ace Hardware -
literally all over the place. You'll need to replace two full size 120v
breakers with mini's in order to free up a slot for a 240v breaker.
If your panel is missing the sheet inside the door, just pull a breaker from
a circuit you can live without for the day, and take the breaker to one of
those retailers to match up the connection style.
These are still perfectly modern breakers, and you should have no trouble
finding them.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Mike Marlow wrote:
> scritch wrote:
>> I am trying to add a 220v 20a circuit to my 1981 Crouse-Hinds CTL
>> load center. It has (20) 1-inch slots, but has 40 poles and is
>> rated for 40 circuits, using 1/2-inch (tandem) breakers. However,
>> Crouse-Hinds was bought out more than once, and I am having the
>> devil of a time finding possible replacement breakers. I don't
>> really want to replace my panel, so is there a good resource for
>> modern replacement breakers? I can
>> find 1-inch breakers all day, but I need 1/2-inch, as my panel is
>> full of 1-inch breakers.
>>
>> The sooner I get a new circuit, the sooner I can get my new SawStop
>> 3hp saw!
>
> Look at the sheet inside the door of your panel - it will list the
> breaker Type(s) that you can use in your panel. Since it's a CH
> panel, you can most likely use Type BR, but it will probably list
> more than one type that will work. These are available right at Home
> Deopt, Lowes, Ace Hardware - literally all over the place. You'll
> need to replace two full size 120v breakers with mini's in order to
> free up a slot for a 240v breaker.
To be more clear - your 240v breaker will take up the space of two full size
120v breakers, as it connects to both of the legs (buss bar) of the incoming
240v service.
> If your panel is missing the sheet inside the door, just pull a
> breaker from a circuit you can live without for the day, and take the
> breaker to one of those retailers to match up the connection style.
>
> These are still perfectly modern breakers, and you should have no
> trouble finding them.
Greg Guarino wrote:
> On Nov 27, 10:42 pm, "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>> Mike Marlow wrote:
>>> scritch wrote:
>>>> I am trying to add a 220v 20a circuit to my 1981 Crouse-Hinds CTL
>>>> load center. It has (20) 1-inch slots, but has 40 poles and is
>>>> rated for 40 circuits, using 1/2-inch (tandem) breakers. However,
>>>> Crouse-Hinds was bought out more than once, and I am having the
>>>> devil of a time finding possible replacement breakers. I don't
>>>> really want to replace my panel, so is there a good resource for
>>>> modern replacement breakers? I can
>>>> find 1-inch breakers all day, but I need 1/2-inch, as my panel is
>>>> full of 1-inch breakers.
>>
>>>> The sooner I get a new circuit, the sooner I can get my new SawStop
>>>> 3hp saw!
>>
>>> Look at the sheet inside the door of your panel - it will list the
>>> breaker Type(s) that you can use in your panel. Since it's a CH
>>> panel, you can most likely use Type BR, but it will probably list
>>> more than one type that will work. These are available right at Home
>>> Deopt, Lowes, Ace Hardware - literally all over the place. You'll
>>> need to replace two full size 120v breakers with mini's in order to
>>> free up a slot for a 240v breaker.
>>
>> To be more clear - your 240v breaker will take up the space of two
>> full size 120v breakers, as it connects to both of the legs (buss
>> bar) of the incoming 240v service.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> If your panel is missing the sheet inside the door, just pull a
>>> breaker from a circuit you can live without for the day, and take
>>> the breaker to one of those retailers to match up the connection
>>> style.
>>
>>> These are still perfectly modern breakers, and you should have no
>>> trouble finding them.
>
> And he'll then need to make room by putting some of his 120V circuits
> on the thinner style breakers.
Yup - that's why he's buying them... And... it's why I said he'd need to
replace 2 full size breakers with a mini.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On 11/27/2012 10:57 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Greg Guarino wrote:
>> On Nov 27, 10:42 pm, "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>> Mike Marlow wrote:
>>>> scritch wrote:
>>>>> I am trying to add a 220v 20a circuit to my 1981 Crouse-Hinds CTL
>>>>> load center. It has (20) 1-inch slots, but has 40 poles and is
>>>>> rated for 40 circuits, using 1/2-inch (tandem) breakers. However,
>>>>> Crouse-Hinds was bought out more than once, and I am having the
>>>>> devil of a time finding possible replacement breakers. I don't
>>>>> really want to replace my panel, so is there a good resource for
>>>>> modern replacement breakers? I can
>>>>> find 1-inch breakers all day, but I need 1/2-inch, as my panel is
>>>>> full of 1-inch breakers.
>>>
>>>>> The sooner I get a new circuit, the sooner I can get my new SawStop
>>>>> 3hp saw!
>>>
>>>> Look at the sheet inside the door of your panel - it will list the
>>>> breaker Type(s) that you can use in your panel. Since it's a CH
>>>> panel, you can most likely use Type BR, but it will probably list
>>>> more than one type that will work. These are available right at Home
>>>> Deopt, Lowes, Ace Hardware - literally all over the place. You'll
>>>> need to replace two full size 120v breakers with mini's in order to
>>>> free up a slot for a 240v breaker.
>>>
>>> To be more clear - your 240v breaker will take up the space of two
>>> full size 120v breakers, as it connects to both of the legs (buss
>>> bar) of the incoming 240v service.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> If your panel is missing the sheet inside the door, just pull a
>>>> breaker from a circuit you can live without for the day, and take
>>>> the breaker to one of those retailers to match up the connection
>>>> style.
>>>
>>>> These are still perfectly modern breakers, and you should have no
>>>> trouble finding them.
>>
>> And he'll then need to make room by putting some of his 120V circuits
>> on the thinner style breakers.
>
> Yup - that's why he's buying them... And... it's why I said he'd need to
> replace 2 full size breakers with a mini.
>
I couldn't tell if he meant that, or if he thought that two half-size
breakers could be used for a 220V circuit, so I thought I'd clarify.
On 11/28/2012 11:46 PM, Mike M wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Nov 2012 19:14:07 -0800, scritch <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> I am trying to add a 220v 20a circuit to my 1981 Crouse-Hinds CTL load
>> center. It has (20) 1-inch slots, but has 40 poles and is rated for 40
>> circuits, using 1/2-inch (tandem) breakers. However, Crouse-Hinds was
>> bought out more than once, and I am having the devil of a time finding
>> possible replacement breakers. I don't really want to replace my panel,
>> so is there a good resource for modern replacement breakers? I can find
>> 1-inch breakers all day, but I need 1/2-inch, as my panel is full of
>> 1-inch breakers.
>>
>> The sooner I get a new circuit, the sooner I can get my new SawStop 3hp saw!
>
> Did a quick qoogle search and some of the CH breakers are obsolete.
> Doesn't mean they aren't available, they just may be used. Not having
> the actual breaker designation can't tell you for sure. There are
> reputable specialty breaker dealers that test before they sell. There
> are a lot that will fit possibley but listed 1/2 size breaker went
> thru some listing changes so technically may not be in compliance you
> have to be sure they are listed for your panel. If the substute is
> one that's still readily available I woudn't worry to much. I
> wouldn't use any untested used breaker myself.
>
Once it has been tested, who is to say it would pass the test again?
--
Froz...
The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance.
On 11/27/2012 11:08 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
> The THQP230 has a mechanical interlock to prevent incorrect
> installation
> in GE panels, not sure about C-H panels.
>
> After installation, check voltage at output of c'bkr.
LOL I remember the raging argument that incorrect installation was even
a possibility when I said that very same thing a few years back.
When we first started installing half height c'brkrs years back
placement/voltage was important to check, as it was possible to have a
240 2P pulling off the same leg, to the point that it is something I
still check when doing my trim out walk through, impossible or not ...
having fielded a call or two from new home owners the first time they
went to cook a turkey in that new oven. :)
--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
On Tue, 27 Nov 2012 19:14:07 -0800, scritch <[email protected]>
wrote:
>I am trying to add a 220v 20a circuit to my 1981 Crouse-Hinds CTL load
>center. It has (20) 1-inch slots, but has 40 poles and is rated for 40
>circuits, using 1/2-inch (tandem) breakers. However, Crouse-Hinds was
>bought out more than once, and I am having the devil of a time finding
>possible replacement breakers. I don't really want to replace my panel,
>so is there a good resource for modern replacement breakers? I can find
>1-inch breakers all day, but I need 1/2-inch, as my panel is full of
>1-inch breakers.
>
>The sooner I get a new circuit, the sooner I can get my new SawStop 3hp saw!
Did a quick qoogle search and some of the CH breakers are obsolete.
Doesn't mean they aren't available, they just may be used. Not having
the actual breaker designation can't tell you for sure. There are
reputable specialty breaker dealers that test before they sell. There
are a lot that will fit possibley but listed 1/2 size breaker went
thru some listing changes so technically may not be in compliance you
have to be sure they are listed for your panel. If the substute is
one that's still readily available I woudn't worry to much. I
wouldn't use any untested used breaker myself.
Mike M