Probably a stupid question, but... Is there any reason that running it as a
"fan" can hurt or make it less effective..
Looking ahead to summer and was going to put an exhaust fan in the shop...
Thinking of venting the Jet to the outside instead...
It's ceiling mounted and should pull the hot air off the (10') ceilings..
I can't think of how removing the filters could hurt it.. Just more air flow,
right?
Would it be better to leave the outer filter on, to keep dust out of the fan, or
would the dust just blow on through?
thanks,
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing
On Sun, 8 Feb 2009 11:31:27 -0500, phorbin <[email protected]> wrote:
>In article <36823a16-66f8-41df-bb94-347e5a6a4104
>@l16g2000yqo.googlegroups.com>, [email protected] says...
>
>
>> If he vents it to the outside, the dust should be blown out with the
>> hot air.... rather than some of it recirculating back into the shop.
>> No?
>
>The original question suggesta that he wants to use it like a ceiling
>fan to circulate the higher, warmer stratum of air throughout the shop.
Nope.. vented outside...
I'm thinking of ducting it about 5' to a dryer vent type setup in the wall..
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing
On Wed, 11 Feb 2009 22:54:30 -0600, basilisk <[email protected]> wrote:
>I'm a little late coming into this thread but one thing to watch for
>is motor overload, the less resistance and higher cfm will load the motor
>to a greater level.
>
>basilisk
AHHHH....
That's sort of the question that was hiding in the back of my mind when I asked
if it could harm the unit!
Brings to mind the folks that put low resistance mufflers on their cars and lose
the back pressure that the engine might need..
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing
On Feb 8, 11:31=A0am, phorbin <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <36823a16-66f8-41df-bb94-347e5a6a4104
> @l16g2000yqo.googlegroups.com>, [email protected] says...
>
> > If he vents it to the outside, the dust should be blown out with the
> > hot air.... rather than some of it recirculating back into the shop.
> > No?
>
> The original question suggesta that he wants to use it like a ceiling
> fan to circulate the higher, warmer stratum of air throughout the shop.
>>>>Looking ahead to summer and was going to put an exhaust fan in the shop=
...
Thinking of venting the Jet to the outside instead.<<<<<<<<
That is what I got out of mac's question.....
"mac davis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sat, 7 Feb 2009 13:39:48 -0600, "MikeWhy" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
>>I'd be concerned about protecting the motor and bearings. The slight gain
>>in
>>CFM without the filter likely won't make a worthwhile or noticeable
>>difference. I have a washable filter, so fo me, it would not be a
>>hardship.
>>
> My concern also, Mike..
> Do you think the outer filter would protect the motor?
> I'm thinking that the main increase in CFM would be by removing the inner
> filter..
Compared to not using a filter, for sure. ;) The static pressure on the
inner bag filters is pretty large. Mine are ripping away from their
attachment points on the frame. However, even this much seems small compared
to losses ducting it into a dryer vent hose, as I read you mention
elsewhere. A powered exhaust vent set into the wall might do just as well.
Maybe move the air cleaner close to and pointed at the vent, and whatever
makes it out will be good enough. You might also consider venting the DC
outside, but that has its own set of problems.
On Feb 7, 1:16=A0pm, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "mac davis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
>
>
> > Probably a stupid question, but... Is there any reason that running it =
as
> > a
> > "fan" can hurt or make it less effective..
>
> > Looking ahead to summer and was going to put an exhaust fan in the shop=
...
> > Thinking of venting the Jet to the outside instead...
>
> > It's ceiling mounted and should pull the hot air off the (10') ceilings=
..
> > I can't think of how removing the filters could hurt it.. Just more air
> > flow,
> > right?
> > Would it be better to leave the outer filter on, to keep dust out of th=
e
> > fan, or
> > would the dust just blow on through?
>
> > thanks,
>
> > mac
>
> > Please remove splinters before emailing
>
> The biggest problem that I see is that "you" would be breathing more dust=
.
If he vents it to the outside, the dust should be blown out with the
hot air.... rather than some of it recirculating back into the shop.
No?
On Mon, 9 Feb 2009 22:08:14 -0500, "Ed Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"mac davis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> In my case, outside air isn't an option, as this setup would be when it's
>> WAY
>> too hot and humid to work outside..
>> My shop is actually a large room in the house, so I guess I'd be drawing
>> replacement air from the great room, which is a lot cooled than the shop..
>>
>>
>> mac
>
>And then the great room air is replaced with hot air from outside. If you
>are paying to run an AC, it may run into quite the expense.
>
Well, we're lucky enough to not have to be too concerned with the expense, Ed..
Last year we ran the master bedroom AC 24/7 all summer, the shop AC about 12
hours a day and the great room unit when we had folks over, and our highest bill
in 2 years was a little under $250 a month..
After a lifetime in California, we can live with that, for sure.. That would be
our LOWEST bill in a lot of years, there..
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing
On Mon, 9 Feb 2009 13:47:04 -0600, "MikeWhy" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Compared to not using a filter, for sure. ;) The static pressure on the
>inner bag filters is pretty large. Mine are ripping away from their
>attachment points on the frame. However, even this much seems small compared
>to losses ducting it into a dryer vent hose, as I read you mention
>elsewhere. A powered exhaust vent set into the wall might do just as well.
>Maybe move the air cleaner close to and pointed at the vent, and whatever
>makes it out will be good enough. You might also consider venting the DC
>outside, but that has its own set of problems.
>
Good point...
I'm looking at using a table saw DC fitting, which just covers the grill on the
exhaust side, and running about 30" of 4" DC hose to the dryer vent, which would
be near the ceiling..
We were originally going to use a bathroom type vent unit, but the hassle of
running power to it just isn't worth it..
I'm thinking that the advantage of the Jet unit over the wall unit is that it's
in the middle of the room, mounted on the ceiling and that it's already there..
(yeah, my middle name is either Lazy)
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing
"mac davis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Probably a stupid question, but... Is there any reason that running it as
> a
> "fan" can hurt or make it less effective..
>
> Looking ahead to summer and was going to put an exhaust fan in the shop...
> Thinking of venting the Jet to the outside instead...
>
> It's ceiling mounted and should pull the hot air off the (10') ceilings..
> I can't think of how removing the filters could hurt it.. Just more air
> flow,
> right?
> Would it be better to leave the outer filter on, to keep dust out of the
> fan, or
> would the dust just blow on through?
I'd be concerned about protecting the motor and bearings. The slight gain in
CFM without the filter likely won't make a worthwhile or noticeable
difference. I have a washable filter, so fo me, it would not be a hardship.
"mac davis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 11 Feb 2009 22:54:30 -0600, basilisk <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>I'm a little late coming into this thread but one thing to watch for
>>is motor overload, the less resistance and higher cfm will load the motor
>>to a greater level.
>>
>>basilisk
>
> AHHHH....
> That's sort of the question that was hiding in the back of my mind when I
> asked
> if it could harm the unit!
> Brings to mind the folks that put low resistance mufflers on their cars
> and lose
> the back pressure that the engine might need..
It's difficult to say without the fan curve to look at. For a finely tuned,
engineered system, that may be so. I think that's hardly the case for
"generic" air cleaners. Removing the static loss from the filter flattens
the system curve, shifting the operating point lower and to the right: lower
static pressure and higher cfm. Assuming constant speed and efficiency,
power draw will be higher; the fan laws relate power to the cube of cfm.
However, the squirrel cage likely is running higher on its efficiency curve
at the lower static point. I doubt the small increase in power places the
motor in any danger of burning out. But, again, it's difficult to say
without looking at the fan and system curves. If that's a concern at all, my
Jet filter has 3 speed settings. Just avoid using the highest setting.
"mac davis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> In my case, outside air isn't an option, as this setup would be when it's
> WAY
> too hot and humid to work outside..
> My shop is actually a large room in the house, so I guess I'd be drawing
> replacement air from the great room, which is a lot cooled than the shop..
>
>
> mac
And then the great room air is replaced with hot air from outside. If you
are paying to run an AC, it may run into quite the expense.
In article <36823a16-66f8-41df-bb94-347e5a6a4104
@l16g2000yqo.googlegroups.com>, [email protected] says...
> If he vents it to the outside, the dust should be blown out with the
> hot air.... rather than some of it recirculating back into the shop.
> No?
The original question suggesta that he wants to use it like a ceiling
fan to circulate the higher, warmer stratum of air throughout the shop.
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> On Sun, 8 Feb 2009 11:31:27 -0500, phorbin <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >In article <36823a16-66f8-41df-bb94-347e5a6a4104
> >@l16g2000yqo.googlegroups.com>, [email protected] says...
> >
> >
> >> If he vents it to the outside, the dust should be blown out with the
> >> hot air.... rather than some of it recirculating back into the shop.
> >> No?
> >
> >The original question suggesta that he wants to use it like a ceiling
> >fan to circulate the higher, warmer stratum of air throughout the shop.
>
> Nope.. vented outside...
> I'm thinking of ducting it about 5' to a dryer vent type setup in the wall..
OK, so you want to move the hot air out... I'd wonder if this would
create low pressure inside which would draw outside hot, humid air in
through doors, windows and/or chimneys depending on how air tight your
house is.
Leon wrote:
> Concerning longetivity of the motor and bearings, do you have a regular fan
> in the shop? Is it holding up OK? I would not be concerned, myself.
If it has sealed ball bearings, yeah; brass bushings, no.
--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
Leon wrote:
>
> "mac davis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Probably a stupid question, but... Is there any reason that running it as
>> a
>> "fan" can hurt or make it less effective..
>>
>> Looking ahead to summer and was going to put an exhaust fan in the
>> shop... Thinking of venting the Jet to the outside instead...
>>
>> It's ceiling mounted and should pull the hot air off the (10') ceilings..
>> I can't think of how removing the filters could hurt it.. Just more air
>> flow,
>> right?
>> Would it be better to leave the outer filter on, to keep dust out of the
>> fan, or
>> would the dust just blow on through?
>>
>> thanks,
>>
>>
>> mac
>>
>> Please remove splinters before emailing
>
>
> Concerning longetivity of the motor and bearings, do you have a regular
> fan
> in the shop? Is it holding up OK? I would not be concerned, myself.
I'm a little late coming into this thread but one thing to watch for
is motor overload, the less resistance and higher cfm will load the motor
to a greater level.
basilisk
"phorbin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <36823a16-66f8-41df-bb94-347e5a6a4104
> @l16g2000yqo.googlegroups.com>, [email protected] says...
>
>
>> If he vents it to the outside, the dust should be blown out with the
>> hot air.... rather than some of it recirculating back into the shop.
>> No?
>
> The original question suggesta that he wants to use it like a ceiling
> fan to circulate the higher, warmer stratum of air throughout the shop.
Isn't that what it does by default?
On Mon, 9 Feb 2009 12:23:17 -0500, phorbin <[email protected]> wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] says...
>> On Sun, 8 Feb 2009 11:31:27 -0500, phorbin <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >In article <36823a16-66f8-41df-bb94-347e5a6a4104
>> >@l16g2000yqo.googlegroups.com>, [email protected] says...
>> >
>> >
>> >> If he vents it to the outside, the dust should be blown out with the
>> >> hot air.... rather than some of it recirculating back into the shop.
>> >> No?
>> >
>> >The original question suggesta that he wants to use it like a ceiling
>> >fan to circulate the higher, warmer stratum of air throughout the shop.
>>
>> Nope.. vented outside...
>> I'm thinking of ducting it about 5' to a dryer vent type setup in the wall..
>
>OK, so you want to move the hot air out... I'd wonder if this would
>create low pressure inside which would draw outside hot, humid air in
>through doors, windows and/or chimneys depending on how air tight your
>house is.
I don't think it would..
2 year old house with a lot of insulation and double pane windows..
I'm thinking that it might draw some of the cool air from the great room,
though..
That's a factor, as I figure that when using the filter vented to the outside, I
won't be using the AC in the shop..
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing
On Sun, 8 Feb 2009 15:31:04 -0600, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:36823a16-66f8-41df-bb94-347e5a6a4104@l16g2000yqo.googlegroups.com...
>On Feb 7, 1:16 pm, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>.
>
>If he vents it to the outside, the dust should be blown out with the
>hot air.... rather than some of it recirculating back into the shop.
>No?
>
>Well maybe. It will be vented outside but that vented air has to be
>replaced and outside air may bring in more dust than what may only be
>floating around inside. Eventually inside filtered air will clear out with
>filters. Dusty outside air is limitless.
>That said, I don't use an air filter at all as I most often work with an
>open garage door and the breeze through there would probably limit the
>effectiveness of a room air filter.
>
Good thought, Leon.. hadn't occurred to me about replacing the air..
In my case, outside air isn't an option, as this setup would be when it's WAY
too hot and humid to work outside..
My shop is actually a large room in the house, so I guess I'd be drawing
replacement air from the great room, which is a lot cooled than the shop..
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing
On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 08:41:02 -0600, "Leon" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Concerning longetivity of the motor and bearings, do you have a regular fan
>in the shop? Is it holding up OK? I would not be concerned, myself.
>
Well, I've had a 10" box fan from Wally World running in a shop window for most
of 2 years and it's getting a tad noisy.. lol
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing
"mac davis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Probably a stupid question, but... Is there any reason that running it as
> a
> "fan" can hurt or make it less effective..
>
> Looking ahead to summer and was going to put an exhaust fan in the shop...
> Thinking of venting the Jet to the outside instead...
>
> It's ceiling mounted and should pull the hot air off the (10') ceilings..
> I can't think of how removing the filters could hurt it.. Just more air
> flow,
> right?
> Would it be better to leave the outer filter on, to keep dust out of the
> fan, or
> would the dust just blow on through?
>
> thanks,
>
>
> mac
>
> Please remove splinters before emailing
The biggest problem that I see is that "you" would be breathing more dust.
On Sat, 7 Feb 2009 13:39:48 -0600, "MikeWhy" <[email protected]> wrote:
>I'd be concerned about protecting the motor and bearings. The slight gain in
>CFM without the filter likely won't make a worthwhile or noticeable
>difference. I have a washable filter, so fo me, it would not be a hardship.
>
My concern also, Mike..
Do you think the outer filter would protect the motor?
I'm thinking that the main increase in CFM would be by removing the inner
filter..
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing
"mac davis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Probably a stupid question, but... Is there any reason that running it as
> a
> "fan" can hurt or make it less effective..
>
> Looking ahead to summer and was going to put an exhaust fan in the shop...
> Thinking of venting the Jet to the outside instead...
>
> It's ceiling mounted and should pull the hot air off the (10') ceilings..
> I can't think of how removing the filters could hurt it.. Just more air
> flow,
> right?
> Would it be better to leave the outer filter on, to keep dust out of the
> fan, or
> would the dust just blow on through?
>
> thanks,
>
>
> mac
>
> Please remove splinters before emailing
Concerning longetivity of the motor and bearings, do you have a regular fan
in the shop? Is it holding up OK? I would not be concerned, myself.
On Sat, 7 Feb 2009 12:16:44 -0600, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"mac davis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Probably a stupid question, but... Is there any reason that running it as
>> a
>> "fan" can hurt or make it less effective..
>>
>> Looking ahead to summer and was going to put an exhaust fan in the shop...
>> Thinking of venting the Jet to the outside instead...
>>
>> It's ceiling mounted and should pull the hot air off the (10') ceilings..
>> I can't think of how removing the filters could hurt it.. Just more air
>> flow,
>> right?
>> Would it be better to leave the outer filter on, to keep dust out of the
>> fan, or
>> would the dust just blow on through?
>>
>> thanks,
>>
>>
>> mac
>>
>> Please remove splinters before emailing
>
>The biggest problem that I see is that "you" would be breathing more dust.
>
Not sure why, Leon..
The air going into the filter wouldn't be recirculated into the shop, it would
go outside..
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:36823a16-66f8-41df-bb94-347e5a6a4104@l16g2000yqo.googlegroups.com...
On Feb 7, 1:16 pm, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
.
If he vents it to the outside, the dust should be blown out with the
hot air.... rather than some of it recirculating back into the shop.
No?
Well maybe. It will be vented outside but that vented air has to be
replaced and outside air may bring in more dust than what may only be
floating around inside. Eventually inside filtered air will clear out with
filters. Dusty outside air is limitless.
That said, I don't use an air filter at all as I most often work with an
open garage door and the breeze through there would probably limit the
effectiveness of a room air filter.
On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 12:32:09 -0600, "MikeWhy" <[email protected]> wrote:
>It's difficult to say without the fan curve to look at. For a finely tuned,
>engineered system, that may be so. I think that's hardly the case for
>"generic" air cleaners. Removing the static loss from the filter flattens
>the system curve, shifting the operating point lower and to the right: lower
>static pressure and higher cfm. Assuming constant speed and efficiency,
>power draw will be higher; the fan laws relate power to the cube of cfm.
>However, the squirrel cage likely is running higher on its efficiency curve
>at the lower static point. I doubt the small increase in power places the
>motor in any danger of burning out. But, again, it's difficult to say
>without looking at the fan and system curves. If that's a concern at all, my
>Jet filter has 3 speed settings. Just avoid using the highest setting.
Yep... I'm guessing that you could just take the "squirrel cage" fan out of the
filter and run it without problems..
Part of the reason for removing the filter is to not need to run it on anything
but low (1 of 3) speed..
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing