Look what happened to this feller's workshop

On Fri, 13 Dec 2013 22:48:28 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
wrote:

>[email protected] wrote:
>> On Fri, 13 Dec 2013 13:31:34 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Man....
>>>
>>> http://lumberjocks.com/topics/55735
>>>
>>> Fortunately no one was hurt. The punch line is an absolutely horrible pun
>>> though. He should have had a ____ Stop!
>> A truck stop?
>What else? I thought it was sort of funny when I first thought of it.
>But I'd probably think Tesla was funny.

What's a Tesla Stop? ;-)

On 12/14/2013 12:05 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Dec 2013 23:28:46 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>> Spend the time to release a frozen emergency brake cable once and
>>> you will never do it again.
>> Use your parking brake as you should and lubricate as indicated the rust
>> will not develop badly enough to lock things up.
>
> Don't know about your neck of the woods, but up here it's law that
> your emergency brake has to be working. Roadside spot checks
> especially in winter time often check for a working emergency brake.
> If it's not, a ticket with a fine attached is the result.
>


In Corpus Christi TX, north end of Padre Island and lots of fishing
there is lots of salt to keep things rusty. It was standard procedure
to drench cables with WD40 to expel the salt water.

"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>
>> What we saw was a front rotor that was completely worn away to the
>> cooling fins in the center and the caliper piston was welded to that
>> rotor. Any sign of the pads was looooooong gone.
>>
>> We had to quote her a price for replacing everything between the upper
>> and lower ball joints, it all had to be replaced, both sides.
>>
>> I asked her how long she had been listening to the noise coming from
>> the front end. Her answer was a couple of days.
>
> Choke... ummmmmm, Yup - I believe that m'am...


She probably had been listening for two days. And ignoring the noise the
previous 6 months.

Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
> Mike Marlow wrote:
>> Bill wrote:
>>
>>> Maybe the answer depends on whether the insured lives in a "No-Fault"
>>> state or not. In Indiana, they are not afraid to sue.
>> That strikes me as quite odd. What would be the purpose of insurance if the
>> insurance company were to simply turn around and sue you for collecting?
>> Are you quite certain of what you claim Bill? Got any links to this kind of
>> behavior by insurance companies in Indianna?
>>
> To me, it seems like the entity paying off on the homeowner's policy
> could sue the entity holding the auto-liability policy. Obviously, if
> they are the same company, then the there is no issue.
>
> I can tell you for based upon a little bit of experience, that in a
> "non-no-fault" state--in an accident, the insurance company of a
> negligent party will pay for all of the losses (or whatever the companies "settle" upon).

Typically with no fault, insurance companies will pay for damages and look
into collecting from the other guy, whether it be the other guy or his
insurance.

"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I wrote:
>
>> Spend the time to release a frozen emergency brake cable once and
>>> you will never do it again.
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> "Leon" wrote:
>
>
>> Use your parking brake as you should and lubricate as indicated the
>> rust will not develop badly enough to lock things up.
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> Spend a couple of years driving in the Rust Belt and get back to me.
>
> Road salt eats a vehicle alive.
>
> Lew

I grew up in Corpus Christi, TX. not unusual to have vehicles come into
the shop with floor pans rusted out. So you are preaching to the choir
about salt and rust.

"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Lew Hodgett wrote:
>> "Puckdropper" wrote:
>>
>>
>>> If you usually leave it out of gear, wouldn't you set the parking
>>> brake?
>>> A good push is all it takes to set a vehicle rolling.
>> --------------------------------------------
>> Those who use emergency brakes don't live in the "Rust Belt" unless a
>> lot of
>> things have changed.
>>
>> Spend the time to release a frozen emergency brake cable once and
>> you will never do it again.
>>
>> Trust me.
>>
>> Some things you NEVER forget.
>>
>
> In the rust belt, you either always use it or you never use it. The one
> thing you don't do is occassionally use it. As long as you use it all the
> time, it never corrodes and freezes up.


Exactly!

On Fri, 13 Dec 2013 23:28:46 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>> Spend the time to release a frozen emergency brake cable once and
>> you will never do it again.
>Use your parking brake as you should and lubricate as indicated the rust
>will not develop badly enough to lock things up.

Don't know about your neck of the woods, but up here it's law that
your emergency brake has to be working. Roadside spot checks
especially in winter time often check for a working emergency brake.
If it's not, a ticket with a fine attached is the result.

On Friday, December 13, 2013 2:45:11 PM UTC-6, Lee Michaels wrote:
> "Bill" > Man.... > > http://lumberjocks.com/topics/55735 > > Fortunately=
no one was hurt. The punch line is an absolutely pun though. > He should h=
ave had a ____ Stop! As a paramedic, HE SHOULD KNOW BETTER!!! He works on a=
ll kinds of people who do stupid things. Maybe the stupidity was contagious=
. He caught it from somebody. He was very lucky. And he is getting tools re=
placed, etc. So it will work out in the end. But TOTALLY STUPID!!

A couple of odd things about twoblacklabs' post. His profile states he's f=
rom IN. I'd have expected him to have his left leg on the ground and his r=
ight leg on the clutch, but.... He states the truck's passenger mirror was=
damaged and the picture shows the left side (driver's side, here in the st=
ates, I thought) of his truck (damaged mirror side?). Maybe the controls A=
RE on the right side of the truck. =20

F150, built Ford tough (sic)! : )

Well, I see someone else's shop is in as much "disarray" as mine. I do wi=
sh him a quick recovery, though. I'd hate to have any sort of accident or =
damage, as that, no matter how it's caused.

Sonny

Sonny

On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 01:06:22 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>In Corpus Christi TX, north end of Padre Island and lots of fishing
>there is lots of salt to keep things rusty. It was standard procedure
>to drench cables with WD40 to expel the salt water.

Probably not the same type of salt, but our roads and sidewalks are
heavily salted in wintertime for traction. It's not uncommon for the
snow to temporarily melt away and the ground is still white from all
the salt spread on it. I've always wondered what all this road salt
does to the eco system.

On 12/14/2013 8:10 AM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
> On 12/14/2013 12:23 AM, Leon wrote:
>> On 12/13/2013 5:15 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
>>> On 12/13/2013 4:49 PM, Leon wrote:
>>>> On 12/13/2013 2:08 PM, Bill wrote:
>>>>> Leon wrote:
>>>>>> On 12/13/2013 12:31 PM, Bill wrote:
>>>>>>> Man....
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://lumberjocks.com/topics/55735
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Fortunately no one was hurt. The punch line is an absolutely pun
>>>>>>> though. He should have had a ____ Stop!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I will have to say he was pretty foolish and that was simply going to
>>>>>> happen sooner or later.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm confused, their practice is to leave it in gear and the last
>>>>>> person that used it left it in gear.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the original post had a typo. His practice was to leave it
>>>>> out
>>>>> of gear.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I think so too. I was giving him the benefit of the doubt. Leaving it
>>>> out of gear and not setting the break compounds the likelihood of an
>>>> accident happening at any moment with out the motor running.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I frequently leave my car with a standard transmission out of gear in my
>>> garage. My garage is small and it is tight around the car. By leaving
>>> it out of gear, if I want in the trunk I can push the car a little ahead
>>> to make more room behind the car. If I am doing something in the front
>>> of the garage I can push it back.
>>>
>>> If I get up in the morning and the car will not start, I push it out of
>>> the garage, jump in before it is going to fast, and as it is rolling
>>> back into the street, you can pop the clutch and start the motor.
>>>
>>> I will let someone else explain "popping the clutch"
>>
>>
>> Popping the clutch, who would not know what that is. But still do you
>> leave yur vehicle outside in neutral?
>
> Usually not as I am not space limited out of doors. In our area when
> parking in most places I set the emergency brake.

Several years back my BIL's oldest daughter drove into the the local gas
station to fill up. She left the vehicle in neutral, got out, and began
filling the tank. The filler tube was behind the rear license plate.
The vehicle in front of her, a large truck, backed up and hit her
vehicle. This knocked her down and while she was trying to get back up
was crushed between her vehicle and the one behind her. She did not
survive.

Like a TS and most WW equipment you can't be too careful. The
unexpected gets you.


>
>
> I mentioned explaining "popping the clutch", as one of the joys of
> taking the car for service is to watch the young serviceman get in the
> car and have no idea of what to do with the gear shift.

When I was the service sales manager at the Olds dealership in down town
Houston, early 80's, I was talking to the service manager at the
Cadillac dealer a couple of blocks away. He was mentioning a similar
problems with his porters that parked the customers vehicles. IIRC
Cadillac came out with a new model, IIRC the "N" body Cimmeron.
Basically an Olds Calais. Oddly Cadillac offered that vehicle with
standard shift transmission. The porters could not figure that out.

On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 10:32:37 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

>On 12/14/2013 10:29 AM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
>> On 12/14/2013 11:15 AM, Leon wrote:
>>> On 12/14/2013 9:55 AM, Larry W wrote:
>>>> In article <[email protected]>,
>>>> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>>>> On 12/13/2013 7:06 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
>>>>>> "Puckdropper" wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you usually leave it out of gear, wouldn't you set the parking
>>>>>>> brake?
>>>>>>> A good push is all it takes to set a vehicle rolling.
>>>>>> --------------------------------------------
>>>>>> Those who use emergency brakes don't live in the "Rust Belt" unless a
>>>>>> lot of
>>>>>> things have changed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Spend the time to release a frozen emergency brake cable once and
>>>>>> you will never do it again.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Use your parking brake as you should and lubricate as indicated the
>>>>> rust
>>>>> will not develop badly enough to lock things up.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Rust is not necessary. In cold and we weather, the cable can literally
>>>> freeze, i.e water infiltrates the cable housing far enought so that
>>>> when it
>>>> turns to ice the cable sticks. Working in fleet vehicle maintenance for
>>>> the last 35 years I have seen it happen many of times.
>>>
>>> I can see that being an issue but certainly not the rust if you exercise
>>> the cables regularity.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> All our road
>>>> call techs and garagemen carry propane torches this time of year. BTW,
>>>> always leave them in the cab of the truck. If they're stowed in an
>>>> unheated area they may not work too well til they warm up.
>>>>
>>>> Try driving your car through a puddle a few times then parking it
>>>> overnight
>>>> in freezing weather with the parking brake set hard. While a particular
>>>> car may or may not have the brake freeze, the odds are that some will
>>>> under these conditions.
>>>
>>> And in those occasions, you leave the vehicle in gear or Park when you
>>> park it. Not taking some measure to prevent the vehicle from moving is
>>> laziness.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I remember one winter I had to go to a meeting in the evening. It was
>> zero that night. The brake did not freeze but the oil in the standard
>> transmission became so stiff that I could not shift until I let he car
>> run for a while to warm the transmission.
>>
>Oh heck yeah!
>
>Back in the late 80's, before the global warming fad, Houston used to
>get pretty cold. I recall similar situations with my 87 Isuzu Trooper.
> The temperature was "7" degrees F and that thing was a beast to drive
>when it got cold.

Try 40F colder than that. ;-)

Leon wrote:

> I award him a trophy for participation!
------------------------------
How about stupidity instead?

Lew

"Bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Man....
>
> http://lumberjocks.com/topics/55735
>
> Fortunately no one was hurt. The punch line is an absolutely pun though.
> He should have had a ____ Stop!

As a paramedic, HE SHOULD KNOW BETTER!!!

He works on all kinds of people who do stupid things. Maybe the stupidity
was contagious. He caught it from somebody.

He was very lucky. And he is getting tools replaced, etc. So it will work
out in the end.

But TOTALLY STUPID!!

Bill <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Leon wrote:
>> On 12/13/2013 12:31 PM, Bill wrote:
>>> Man....
>>>
>>> http://lumberjocks.com/topics/55735
>>>
>>> Fortunately no one was hurt. The punch line is an absolutely pun
>>> though. He should have had a ____ Stop!
>>
>>
>> I will have to say he was pretty foolish and that was simply going to
>> happen sooner or later.
>>
>> I'm confused, their practice is to leave it in gear and the last
>> person that used it left it in gear.
>
>
> I think the original post had a typo. His practice was to leave it
> out
> of gear.

If you usually leave it out of gear, wouldn't you set the parking brake?
A good push is all it takes to set a vehicle rolling.

Did I set the parking brake on the tractor? I'm going to have to go and
check.

>> I wonder what part of the practice, starting the vehicle the way he
>> does, that he did not see as being a likely problem.
>>
>>
>> I award him a trophy for participation!
>>
>

I got a certificate the day I was born. I must be special. :-)

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

"Puckdropper" wrote:


> If you usually leave it out of gear, wouldn't you set the parking
> brake?
> A good push is all it takes to set a vehicle rolling.
--------------------------------------------
Those who use emergency brakes don't live in the "Rust Belt" unless a
lot of
things have changed.

Spend the time to release a frozen emergency brake cable once and
you will never do it again.

Trust me.

Some things you NEVER forget.

Lew

"Nick" wrote:


> At first sight the shop looks well
> equipped, on further inspection I am not so sure. I was surprised to
> see a
> chair in the place, more surprised to see two. That's just me, if I
> want to
> sit down I go into the garden and there's rarely time to sit down
> there either.
> I wonder if this chap has a wife or child that is eager to learn the
> arts of driving.
> Being a rightpondian sceptic I think this is all baloney.
--------------------------------------------------
The most important tool in the shop is the "Thinking" chair IMHO.

Lew

I wrote:

> Spend the time to release a frozen emergency brake cable once and
>> you will never do it again.
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Leon" wrote:


> Use your parking brake as you should and lubricate as indicated the
> rust will not develop badly enough to lock things up.
---------------------------------------------------------
Spend a couple of years driving in the Rust Belt and get back to me.

Road salt eats a vehicle alive.

Lew

[email protected] wrote in news:[email protected]:

>
> What's a Tesla Stop? ;-)

I thought it was the end of the wires, or the point where they get too far
apart for the spark to arc across.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

Somebody wrote:

> What's a Tesla Stop?
-------------------------------------
A place where you stop a Tesla, of course.

Lew

On Sun, 15 Dec 2013 08:31:14 -0600, Leon <[email protected]> wrote:

>Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Mike Marlow wrote:
>>> Bill wrote:
>>>
>>>> Maybe the answer depends on whether the insured lives in a "No-Fault"
>>>> state or not. In Indiana, they are not afraid to sue.
>>> That strikes me as quite odd. What would be the purpose of insurance if the
>>> insurance company were to simply turn around and sue you for collecting?
>>> Are you quite certain of what you claim Bill? Got any links to this kind of
>>> behavior by insurance companies in Indianna?
>>>
>> To me, it seems like the entity paying off on the homeowner's policy
>> could sue the entity holding the auto-liability policy. Obviously, if
>> they are the same company, then the there is no issue.
>>
>> I can tell you for based upon a little bit of experience, that in a
>> "non-no-fault" state--in an accident, the insurance company of a
>> negligent party will pay for all of the losses (or whatever the companies "settle" upon).
>
>Typically with no fault, insurance companies will pay for damages and look
>into collecting from the other guy, whether it be the other guy or his
>insurance.

That's a case of "you're insured but the other guy (should) is still
liable for damage". This is the reason that "no fault" tends to
increase the cost of insurance. The law hasn't improved anything but
added another layer of insurance.

Similarly, insurance companies will pay off on "collision" coverage
and then try to collect from the other guy under his "liability"
coverage. I had that happen but the other guy wasn't to be collected
upon (DUI, switched plates, no insurance, attempt to leave the scene,
on parole - all around all-American guy).

On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 19:17:25 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Bill wrote:
>
>>>
>> To me, it seems like the entity paying off on the homeowner's policy
>> could sue the entity holding the auto-liability policy. Obviously, if
>> they are the same company, then the there is no issue.
>
>As best as I understand No Fault insurance - and I'm no expert - it only
>applies to liability insurance - meaning bodily injury, not property damage.
>Since there were no injuries, there is no liability claim.

There is no "understanding" No Fault insurance. It's all over the
map. The bottom line is that, unless there is a court case, the
insurance companies work it all out between themselves. "No fault"
does nothing but raise confusion and premiums.

>> I can tell you for based upon a little bit of experience, that in a
>> "non-no-fault" state--in an accident, the insurance company of a
>> negligent party will pay for all of the losses (or whatever the
>> companies "settle" upon).
>
>To be more clear with respect to my previous reply - for collission claims
>the same applies in a No Fault state, like NY. Only bodily injury is
>subject to No Fault.

When I lived in NY, yes, "No Fault" only applied to SOME bodily
injury. In reality, you were paying for both. When "No Fault" was
put in place, in NY, it raised the premiums substantially because it
wasn't "No Fault" at all.

On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 20:38:03 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
wrote:

>[email protected] wrote:
>> On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 16:27:14 -0800, "Lew Hodgett"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Somebody wrote:
>>>
>>>> What's a Tesla Stop?
>>> -------------------------------------
>>> A place where you stop a Tesla, of course.
>>>
>> Where it catches fire is a good place to stop a Tesla. (Sorry, Bill)
>"Recharging station" would work for Tesla Stop too.

I suppose you have a point. If you have to wait to have it recharged,
you're *stopped* for some time.

>I would regard the previous notion as more of a "Tesla Grill". ; )

Hopefully there is a bar around, to drown that $100K loss.

On 12/14/2013 10:29 AM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
> On 12/14/2013 11:15 AM, Leon wrote:
>> On 12/14/2013 9:55 AM, Larry W wrote:
>>> In article <[email protected]>,
>>> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>>> On 12/13/2013 7:06 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
>>>>> "Puckdropper" wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> If you usually leave it out of gear, wouldn't you set the parking
>>>>>> brake?
>>>>>> A good push is all it takes to set a vehicle rolling.
>>>>> --------------------------------------------
>>>>> Those who use emergency brakes don't live in the "Rust Belt" unless a
>>>>> lot of
>>>>> things have changed.
>>>>>
>>>>> Spend the time to release a frozen emergency brake cable once and
>>>>> you will never do it again.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Use your parking brake as you should and lubricate as indicated the
>>>> rust
>>>> will not develop badly enough to lock things up.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Rust is not necessary. In cold and we weather, the cable can literally
>>> freeze, i.e water infiltrates the cable housing far enought so that
>>> when it
>>> turns to ice the cable sticks. Working in fleet vehicle maintenance for
>>> the last 35 years I have seen it happen many of times.
>>
>> I can see that being an issue but certainly not the rust if you exercise
>> the cables regularity.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> All our road
>>> call techs and garagemen carry propane torches this time of year. BTW,
>>> always leave them in the cab of the truck. If they're stowed in an
>>> unheated area they may not work too well til they warm up.
>>>
>>> Try driving your car through a puddle a few times then parking it
>>> overnight
>>> in freezing weather with the parking brake set hard. While a particular
>>> car may or may not have the brake freeze, the odds are that some will
>>> under these conditions.
>>
>> And in those occasions, you leave the vehicle in gear or Park when you
>> park it. Not taking some measure to prevent the vehicle from moving is
>> laziness.
>>
>>
>
> I remember one winter I had to go to a meeting in the evening. It was
> zero that night. The brake did not freeze but the oil in the standard
> transmission became so stiff that I could not shift until I let he car
> run for a while to warm the transmission.
>
Oh heck yeah!

Back in the late 80's, before the global warming fad, Houston used to
get pretty cold. I recall similar situations with my 87 Isuzu Trooper.
The temperature was "7" degrees F and that thing was a beast to drive
when it got cold.

On 12/14/2013 1:22 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 01:06:22 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>> In Corpus Christi TX, north end of Padre Island and lots of fishing
>> there is lots of salt to keep things rusty. It was standard procedure
>> to drench cables with WD40 to expel the salt water.
>
> Probably not the same type of salt, but our roads and sidewalks are
> heavily salted in wintertime for traction. It's not uncommon for the
> snow to temporarily melt away and the ground is still white from all
> the salt spread on it. I've always wondered what all this road salt
> does to the eco system.
>


Well, you drive on the beach which is covered by a wave of salt water
every few seconds. ;~) What does it do to the eco system? It turns it
in to a beach. LOL

Then there is the salt air. Simply stick your tongue out and you can
taste the salt.

On 12/14/2013 12:08 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 02:22:34 -0500, [email protected] wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 01:06:22 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>> In Corpus Christi TX, north end of Padre Island and lots of fishing
>>> there is lots of salt to keep things rusty. It was standard procedure
>>> to drench cables with WD40 to expel the salt water.
>>
>> Probably not the same type of salt, but our roads and sidewalks are
>> heavily salted in wintertime for traction. It's not uncommon for the
>> snow to temporarily melt away and the ground is still white from all
>> the salt spread on it. I've always wondered what all this road salt
>> does to the eco system.
>
> Why do you think the oceans are so salty?
>
> We lived in Vermont for fifteen years. I'm very familiar with the
> whole concept of driving on salt. They use no sand because it'll
> freeze solid before they can get it on the trucks. In really cold
> weather, salt doesn't melt anything but it still helps traction.
>


And oddly enough you add rock salt to a hand crank ice cream maker ice
to make it colder.

"Bill" wrote in message news:[email protected]...

Man....

http://lumberjocks.com/topics/55735

Fortunately no one was hurt. The punch line is an absolutely pun
though. He should have had a ____ Stop!

Wonder what stopped the truck from going on through the next wall. After all
it is a Ford. WW

On 12/13/2013 3:52 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
> Bill <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> Leon wrote:
>>> On 12/13/2013 12:31 PM, Bill wrote:
>>>> Man....
>>>>
>>>> http://lumberjocks.com/topics/55735
>>>>
>>>> Fortunately no one was hurt. The punch line is an absolutely pun
>>>> though. He should have had a ____ Stop!
>>>
>>>
>>> I will have to say he was pretty foolish and that was simply going to
>>> happen sooner or later.
>>>
>>> I'm confused, their practice is to leave it in gear and the last
>>> person that used it left it in gear.
>>
>>
>> I think the original post had a typo. His practice was to leave it
>> out
>> of gear.
>
> If you usually leave it out of gear, wouldn't you set the parking brake?
> A good push is all it takes to set a vehicle rolling.
>
> Did I set the parking brake on the tractor? I'm going to have to go and
> check.
>
>>> I wonder what part of the practice, starting the vehicle the way he
>>> does, that he did not see as being a likely problem.
>>>
>>>
>>> I award him a trophy for participation!
>>>
>>
>
> I got a certificate the day I was born. I must be special. :-)
>
> Puckdropper
>


In today's world, we are all special. ;~)

On 12/14/2013 5:06 PM, [email protected] wrote:

>> IIRC back when SE Texas was naming their small towns Pearland, Orange
>> >after their orchards, Galveston Bay froze.
> I take it that Galveston bay isn't part of the gulf? Salt?

Brackish water, depending upon the location.

I used to duck hunt in both Galveston and Trinity bays and it was not
unusual to break ice, of an early morning, going to the blinds in the
upper reaches where the water was brackish (more fresh water, less
salt), thus more subject to freezing.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
google.com/+KarlCaillouet
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 12/13/2013 2:08 PM, Bill wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>> On 12/13/2013 12:31 PM, Bill wrote:
>>> Man....
>>>
>>> http://lumberjocks.com/topics/55735
>>>
>>> Fortunately no one was hurt. The punch line is an absolutely pun
>>> though. He should have had a ____ Stop!
>>
>>
>> I will have to say he was pretty foolish and that was simply going to
>> happen sooner or later.
>>
>> I'm confused, their practice is to leave it in gear and the last
>> person that used it left it in gear.

>
>
> I think the original post had a typo. His practice was to leave it out
> of gear.


I think so too. I was giving him the benefit of the doubt. Leaving it
out of gear and not setting the break compounds the likelihood of an
accident happening at any moment with out the motor running.

On 12/13/2013 2:45 PM, Lee Michaels wrote:
>
>
> "Bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Man....
>>
>> http://lumberjocks.com/topics/55735
>>
>> Fortunately no one was hurt. The punch line is an absolutely pun
>> though. He should have had a ____ Stop!
>
> As a paramedic, HE SHOULD KNOW BETTER!!!
>
> He works on all kinds of people who do stupid things. Maybe the
> stupidity was contagious. He caught it from somebody.
>
> He was very lucky. And he is getting tools replaced, etc. So it will
> work out in the end.
>
> But TOTALLY STUPID!!
>
>
>


I like to say that he paid the "stupid tax", and he was lucky on top of
that. Suppose a child had been playing between the garage and the vehicle.

On 12/13/2013 2:23 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>
>> I award him a trophy for participation!
> ------------------------------
> How about stupidity instead?
>
> Lew
>
>


It is one in the same.

On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 09:12:58 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

>On 12/14/2013 1:22 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 01:06:22 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>> In Corpus Christi TX, north end of Padre Island and lots of fishing
>>> there is lots of salt to keep things rusty. It was standard procedure
>>> to drench cables with WD40 to expel the salt water.
>>
>> Probably not the same type of salt, but our roads and sidewalks are
>> heavily salted in wintertime for traction. It's not uncommon for the
>> snow to temporarily melt away and the ground is still white from all
>> the salt spread on it. I've always wondered what all this road salt
>> does to the eco system.
>>
>
>
>Well, you drive on the beach which is covered by a wave of salt water
>every few seconds. ;~) What does it do to the eco system? It turns it
>in to a beach. LOL

If that were the case, Vermont would be one (little) beach. Well,
close, but misspelled.

>Then there is the salt air. Simply stick your tongue out and you can
>taste the salt.

Don't lick the flagpole.

"Bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Man....
>
> http://lumberjocks.com/topics/55735
>
> Fortunately no one was hurt. The punch line is an absolutely pun though.
> He should have had a ____ Stop!

The words paramedic and insurance immediately spring to mind.
There appears to be a lot of damage caused by a vehicle travelling at
tickover speed especially as the left foot was pushing clutch in (the
vehicle 'should' not have moved). At first sight the shop looks well
equipped, on further inspection I am not so sure. I was surprised to see a
chair in the place, more surprised to see two. That's just me, if I want to
sit down I go into the garden and there's rarely time to sit down there
either.
I wonder if this chap has a wife or child that is eager to learn the arts of
driving.
Being a rightpondian sceptic I think this is all baloney.
Nick.

On Fri, 13 Dec 2013 23:14:17 -0800, "Lew Hodgett"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>
>I wrote:
>
>> Spend the time to release a frozen emergency brake cable once and
>>> you will never do it again.
>-----------------------------------------------------------
>"Leon" wrote:
>
>
>> Use your parking brake as you should and lubricate as indicated the
>> rust will not develop badly enough to lock things up.
>---------------------------------------------------------
>Spend a couple of years driving in the Rust Belt and get back to me.
>
>Road salt eats a vehicle alive.

Yep. I had to replace my 2001 Ranger this year, even though it hadn't
been in salt country for five years. The rear frame was so rotted out
there wasn't anything left for the leaf springs to attach to. It got
upgraded to a '14 F150. ;-)

On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 16:27:14 -0800, "Lew Hodgett"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Somebody wrote:
>
>> What's a Tesla Stop?
>-------------------------------------
>A place where you stop a Tesla, of course.
>
Where it catches fire is a good place to stop a Tesla. (Sorry, Bill)

On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 13:47:08 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
wrote:

>[email protected] wrote:
>> On Fri, 13 Dec 2013 22:48:28 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 13 Dec 2013 13:31:34 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Man....
>>>>>
>>>>> http://lumberjocks.com/topics/55735
>>>>>
>>>>> Fortunately no one was hurt. The punch line is an absolutely horrible pun
>>>>> though. He should have had a ____ Stop!
>>>> A truck stop?
>>> What else? I thought it was sort of funny when I first thought of it.
>>> But I'd probably think Tesla was funny.
>> What's a Tesla Stop? ;-)
>
>I see you're not that funny either... ;)

;-) Thinking of it again, I suppose this is a Tesla Stop.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0kjI08n4fg

>Didn't you notice the man was sort-of driving an FMC 150?

No, I hadn't. All truck tires look the same. ;-)

>I'd love to hear what the insurance company has to say. It's seems they
>could pay off his claim and then sue him (for operating a vehicle
>negligently).

Probably not. Anything can happen but if it's a decent insurance
company, they'll just pay. He may (or may not) have a surcharge on
his insurance for the next few years. There is a reason to not go
cheap on auto insurance, though.

On Friday, December 13, 2013 10:31:34 AM UTC-8, Bill wrote:
> Man....
>=20
>=20
>=20
> http://lumberjocks.com/topics/55735
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Fortunately no one was hurt. The punch line is an absolutely pun=20
>=20
> though. He should have had a ____ Stop!

And he publicly admits to having done this? I do dumb stuff all the time bu=
t sure never broadcast it unless I think it might save someone else from th=
e same mistake. However, this was just a mistake waiting to happen, stating=
a manual care while standing outside of it with the clutch depressed. Uh d=
uh, could be a problem pretty easily, as it finally was.

Don't you always shake the stick to be sure it is in neutral even when you =
have a newer car that requires the clutch to be in before the starter will =
engage?

On 12/13/2013 9:34 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Dec 2013 17:06:40 -0800, "Lew Hodgett"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>> "Puckdropper" wrote:
>>
>>
>>> If you usually leave it out of gear, wouldn't you set the parking
>>> brake?
>>> A good push is all it takes to set a vehicle rolling.
>> --------------------------------------------
>> Those who use emergency brakes don't live in the "Rust Belt" unless a
>> lot of
>> things have changed.
>
> Global warming?
>
>> Spend the time to release a frozen emergency brake cable once and
>> you will never do it again.
>
> Yup. I used to get gigged on inspections for a rusted brakes all the
> time. Never used the parking brake. Still don't.

On 12/13/2013 7:06 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "Puckdropper" wrote:
>
>
>> If you usually leave it out of gear, wouldn't you set the parking
>> brake?
>> A good push is all it takes to set a vehicle rolling.
> --------------------------------------------
> Those who use emergency brakes don't live in the "Rust Belt" unless a
> lot of
> things have changed.
>
> Spend the time to release a frozen emergency brake cable once and
> you will never do it again.
>

Use your parking brake as you should and lubricate as indicated the rust
will not develop badly enough to lock things up.

On 12/13/2013 5:21 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Puckdropper wrote:
>
>> If you usually leave it out of gear, wouldn't you set the parking
>> brake? A good push is all it takes to set a vehicle rolling.
>
> To be fair - he did say they are on level ground. It takes a lot to get an
> F150 to start rolling, and that's not likely to be an accidental thing. I
> don't know if you've ever tried to move a truck, but I've rolled my
> Silverado more than once, and it takes one hell of a lot of effort to get it
> rolling.
>
>
>>
>> I got a certificate the day I was born. I must be special. :-)
>>
>
> Hey - I got one of those too. I must be special too!
>


There is no excuse for it. Level ground or not, he wrecked his garage
because of him thinking that it was in neutral and not using the brake.
It is a liability and an accident waiting to happen.

On Sun, 15 Dec 2013 13:18:53 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>[email protected] wrote:
>> On Sun, 15 Dec 2013 08:31:14 -0600, Leon <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> Mike Marlow wrote:
>>>>> Bill wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe the answer depends on whether the insured lives in a
>>>>>> "No-Fault" state or not. In Indiana, they are not afraid to sue.
>>>>> That strikes me as quite odd. What would be the purpose of
>>>>> insurance if the insurance company were to simply turn around and
>>>>> sue you for collecting? Are you quite certain of what you claim
>>>>> Bill? Got any links to this kind of behavior by insurance
>>>>> companies in Indianna?
>>>>>
>>>> To me, it seems like the entity paying off on the homeowner's policy
>>>> could sue the entity holding the auto-liability policy. Obviously,
>>>> if
>>>> they are the same company, then the there is no issue.
>>>>
>>>> I can tell you for based upon a little bit of experience, that in a
>>>> "non-no-fault" state--in an accident, the insurance company of a
>>>> negligent party will pay for all of the losses (or whatever the
>>>> companies "settle" upon).
>>>
>>> Typically with no fault, insurance companies will pay for damages
>>> and look into collecting from the other guy, whether it be the other
>>> guy or his insurance.
>>
>> That's a case of "you're insured but the other guy (should) is still
>> liable for damage". This is the reason that "no fault" tends to
>> increase the cost of insurance. The law hasn't improved anything but
>> added another layer of insurance.
>
>Not at all. No Fault only deals with personal injury (liability insurance).

In NY, yes, but there is no reason it can't cover all insurance.

>It is a disaster unto itself because states like NY have made it such a
>nightmare to naviage the laws, but that's a different matter entirely.

Yes, there is no reason to have double-coverage. All it does is make
the lawyers rich.

> No
>one seems to realize that no fault is not what Bill was even talking about.
>This was not a no fault case. It seems to me that most people understand
>less about no fault than even I do...

Sure. Not contesting that point.

>> Similarly, insurance companies will pay off on "collision" coverage
>> and then try to collect from the other guy under his "liability"
>
>WRONG! Under his collision insurance. Liability and collision are two
>different things.

WRONG! Collision covers damage to your car. Liability covers damage
to other's property. When you get into an accident, not your fault,
your insurance company (if they're worth anything) will pay out,
immediately, under your collision coverage and then recoup the money
from the other company, under the other operator's LIABILITY coverage.

>> coverage. I had that happen but the other guy wasn't to be collected
>> upon (DUI, switched plates, no insurance, attempt to leave the scene,
>> on parole - all around all-American guy).
>
>Right from your mouth - "no insurance..."

<sigh> They then *TRIED* to collect from the other moron. Since he
was such a moron, he had no insurance and no possibility of collecting
anything. If he had even my deductible, it would have been reimbursed
to me.

On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 14:55:55 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

>On 12/14/2013 12:31 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 10:32:37 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 12/14/2013 10:29 AM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
>>>> On 12/14/2013 11:15 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>>> On 12/14/2013 9:55 AM, Larry W wrote:
>>>>>> In article <[email protected]>,
>>>>>> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 12/13/2013 7:06 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
>>>>>>>> "Puckdropper" wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If you usually leave it out of gear, wouldn't you set the parking
>>>>>>>>> brake?
>>>>>>>>> A good push is all it takes to set a vehicle rolling.
>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> Those who use emergency brakes don't live in the "Rust Belt" unless a
>>>>>>>> lot of
>>>>>>>> things have changed.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Spend the time to release a frozen emergency brake cable once and
>>>>>>>> you will never do it again.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Use your parking brake as you should and lubricate as indicated the
>>>>>>> rust
>>>>>>> will not develop badly enough to lock things up.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Rust is not necessary. In cold and we weather, the cable can literally
>>>>>> freeze, i.e water infiltrates the cable housing far enought so that
>>>>>> when it
>>>>>> turns to ice the cable sticks. Working in fleet vehicle maintenance for
>>>>>> the last 35 years I have seen it happen many of times.
>>>>>
>>>>> I can see that being an issue but certainly not the rust if you exercise
>>>>> the cables regularity.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> All our road
>>>>>> call techs and garagemen carry propane torches this time of year. BTW,
>>>>>> always leave them in the cab of the truck. If they're stowed in an
>>>>>> unheated area they may not work too well til they warm up.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Try driving your car through a puddle a few times then parking it
>>>>>> overnight
>>>>>> in freezing weather with the parking brake set hard. While a particular
>>>>>> car may or may not have the brake freeze, the odds are that some will
>>>>>> under these conditions.
>>>>>
>>>>> And in those occasions, you leave the vehicle in gear or Park when you
>>>>> park it. Not taking some measure to prevent the vehicle from moving is
>>>>> laziness.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I remember one winter I had to go to a meeting in the evening. It was
>>>> zero that night. The brake did not freeze but the oil in the standard
>>>> transmission became so stiff that I could not shift until I let he car
>>>> run for a while to warm the transmission.
>>>>
>>> Oh heck yeah!
>>>
>>> Back in the late 80's, before the global warming fad, Houston used to
>>> get pretty cold. I recall similar situations with my 87 Isuzu Trooper.
>>> The temperature was "7" degrees F and that thing was a beast to drive
>>> when it got cold.
>>
>> Try 40F colder than that. ;-)
>>
>
>I think you will have to agree that 7 is cold, damn cold for SE Texas.

Well, yeah! There's a reason I moved to the South! ;-)

>IIRC back when SE Texas was naming their small towns Pearland, Orange
>after their orchards, Galveston Bay froze.

I take it that Galveston bay isn't part of the gulf? Salt?

On 12/15/2013 12:39 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sun, 15 Dec 2013 08:31:14 -0600, Leon <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Mike Marlow wrote:
>>>> Bill wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Maybe the answer depends on whether the insured lives in a "No-Fault"
>>>>> state or not. In Indiana, they are not afraid to sue.
>>>> That strikes me as quite odd. What would be the purpose of insurance if the
>>>> insurance company were to simply turn around and sue you for collecting?
>>>> Are you quite certain of what you claim Bill? Got any links to this kind of
>>>> behavior by insurance companies in Indianna?
>>>>
>>> To me, it seems like the entity paying off on the homeowner's policy
>>> could sue the entity holding the auto-liability policy. Obviously, if
>>> they are the same company, then the there is no issue.
>>>
>>> I can tell you for based upon a little bit of experience, that in a
>>> "non-no-fault" state--in an accident, the insurance company of a
>>> negligent party will pay for all of the losses (or whatever the companies "settle" upon).
>>
>> Typically with no fault, insurance companies will pay for damages and look
>> into collecting from the other guy, whether it be the other guy or his
>> insurance.
>
> That's a case of "you're insured but the other guy (should) is still
> liable for damage". This is the reason that "no fault" tends to
> increase the cost of insurance. The law hasn't improved anything but
> added another layer of insurance.
>
> Similarly, insurance companies will pay off on "collision" coverage
> and then try to collect from the other guy under his "liability"
> coverage. I had that happen but the other guy wasn't to be collected
> upon (DUI, switched plates, no insurance, attempt to leave the scene,
> on parole - all around all-American guy).
>

Wow almost a double hat trick...
What a guy... nice low life.

--
Jeff

On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 02:22:34 -0500, [email protected] wrote:

>On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 01:06:22 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>In Corpus Christi TX, north end of Padre Island and lots of fishing
>>there is lots of salt to keep things rusty. It was standard procedure
>>to drench cables with WD40 to expel the salt water.
>
>Probably not the same type of salt, but our roads and sidewalks are
>heavily salted in wintertime for traction. It's not uncommon for the
>snow to temporarily melt away and the ground is still white from all
>the salt spread on it. I've always wondered what all this road salt
>does to the eco system.

Why do you think the oceans are so salty?

We lived in Vermont for fifteen years. I'm very familiar with the
whole concept of driving on salt. They use no sand because it'll
freeze solid before they can get it on the trucks. In really cold
weather, salt doesn't melt anything but it still helps traction.

On Fri, 13 Dec 2013 13:31:34 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Man....
>
>http://lumberjocks.com/topics/55735
>
>Fortunately no one was hurt. The punch line is an absolutely pun
>though. He should have had a ____ Stop!

A truck stop?

On Fri, 13 Dec 2013 13:51:16 -0500, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:

>He should have had a ____ Stop!

OK, I give up.
What kind of a "____ Stop" should he have had, Bill?

Edited previous version:
> Man....
>
http://lumberjocks.com/topics/55735
> Fortunately no one was hurt. I feel bad for the man (and think he was
still a bit lucky in what didn't happen!) The punch line is an
absolutely horrible pun though. He should have had a ____ Stop!

Bill wrote:
> Man....
>
> http://lumberjocks.com/topics/55735
>
> Fortunately no one was hurt. The punch line is an absolutely pun
> though. He should have had a ____ Stop!

Ugh! Dontchya just hate it when that kind of thing happens! Time for an
insurance claim. I can fix his truck for him though...

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Spalted Walt wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Dec 2013 13:51:16 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> He should have had a ____ Stop!
>
> OK, I give up.
> What kind of a "____ Stop" should he have had, Bill?

A... wait a minute... A TRUCK Stop!

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

SonomaProducts.com wrote:
> On Friday, December 13, 2013 10:31:34 AM UTC-8, Bill wrote:
>> Man....
>>
>>
>>
>> http://lumberjocks.com/topics/55735
>>
>>
>>
>> Fortunately no one was hurt. The punch line is an absolutely pun
>>
>> though. He should have had a ____ Stop!
> And he publicly admits to having done this?

If you want to be really dumbfounded, go look at some of the most-recent
posts. Here, I'll save you some time:

“Will I start the darn thing from outside, on one foot? Honestly? Most
likely. But as it’s been said numerous times before, I will ensure I
smack the shifter to ensure it’s not in gear.”


> I do dumb stuff all the time but sure never broadcast it unless I think it might save someone else from the same mistake. However, this was just a mistake waiting to happen, stating a manual care while standing outside of it with the clutch depressed. Uh duh, could be a problem pretty easily, as it finally was.
>
> Don't you always shake the stick to be sure it is in neutral even when you have a newer car that requires the clutch to be in before the starter will engage?

Leon wrote:
> On 12/13/2013 12:31 PM, Bill wrote:
>> Man....
>>
>> http://lumberjocks.com/topics/55735
>>
>> Fortunately no one was hurt. The punch line is an absolutely pun
>> though. He should have had a ____ Stop!
>
>
> I will have to say he was pretty foolish and that was simply going to
> happen sooner or later.
>
> I'm confused, their practice is to leave it in gear and the last
> person that used it left it in gear.


I think the original post had a typo. His practice was to leave it out
of gear.


> I wonder what part of the practice, starting the vehicle the way he
> does, that he did not see as being a likely problem.
>
>
> I award him a trophy for participation!
>

>...fortunately no one was hurt. The punch line is an absolutely pun
> though. He should have had a ____ Stop!

My vote is for "dumb stop." Actually, that would prevent most accidents,
wouldn't it?


--
Make it as simple as possible, but not simpler. (Albert Einstein)

Larry W. - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org

On 12/13/2013 4:49 PM, Leon wrote:
> On 12/13/2013 2:08 PM, Bill wrote:
>> Leon wrote:
>>> On 12/13/2013 12:31 PM, Bill wrote:
>>>> Man....
>>>>
>>>> http://lumberjocks.com/topics/55735
>>>>
>>>> Fortunately no one was hurt. The punch line is an absolutely pun
>>>> though. He should have had a ____ Stop!
>>>
>>>
>>> I will have to say he was pretty foolish and that was simply going to
>>> happen sooner or later.
>>>
>>> I'm confused, their practice is to leave it in gear and the last
>>> person that used it left it in gear.
>
>>
>>
>> I think the original post had a typo. His practice was to leave it out
>> of gear.
>
>
> I think so too. I was giving him the benefit of the doubt. Leaving it
> out of gear and not setting the break compounds the likelihood of an
> accident happening at any moment with out the motor running.
>

I frequently leave my car with a standard transmission out of gear in my
garage. My garage is small and it is tight around the car. By leaving
it out of gear, if I want in the trunk I can push the car a little ahead
to make more room behind the car. If I am doing something in the front
of the garage I can push it back.

If I get up in the morning and the car will not start, I push it out of
the garage, jump in before it is going to fast, and as it is rolling
back into the street, you can pop the clutch and start the motor.

I will let someone else explain "popping the clutch"

Puckdropper wrote:

> If you usually leave it out of gear, wouldn't you set the parking
> brake? A good push is all it takes to set a vehicle rolling.

To be fair - he did say they are on level ground. It takes a lot to get an
F150 to start rolling, and that's not likely to be an accidental thing. I
don't know if you've ever tried to move a truck, but I've rolled my
Silverado more than once, and it takes one hell of a lot of effort to get it
rolling.


>
> I got a certificate the day I was born. I must be special. :-)
>

Hey - I got one of those too. I must be special too!

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

[email protected] wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Dec 2013 13:31:34 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> Man....
>>
>> http://lumberjocks.com/topics/55735
>>
>> Fortunately no one was hurt. The punch line is an absolutely horrible pun
>> though. He should have had a ____ Stop!
> A truck stop?
What else? I thought it was sort of funny when I first thought of it.
But I'd probably think Tesla was funny.

Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "Puckdropper" wrote:
>
>
>> If you usually leave it out of gear, wouldn't you set the parking
>> brake?
>> A good push is all it takes to set a vehicle rolling.
> --------------------------------------------
> Those who use emergency brakes don't live in the "Rust Belt" unless a
> lot of
> things have changed.
>
> Spend the time to release a frozen emergency brake cable once and
> you will never do it again.
>
> Trust me.
>
> Some things you NEVER forget.
>

In the rust belt, you either always use it or you never use it. The one
thing you don't do is occassionally use it. As long as you use it all the
time, it never corrodes and freezes up.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On 12/13/2013 10:34 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> Those who use emergency brakes don't live in the "Rust Belt" unless a
>> >lot of
>> >things have changed.
> Global warming?
>

Yes I will bet that is what is causing it. The earth is warming sooooo
much it is snowing in the Middle east and in Jerusalem this morning. I
beleive they said it was a record amount of snow for the area.

That is not counting what is happening in this country and in other
areas of the world.

On 12/14/2013 12:23 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 12/13/2013 5:15 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
>> On 12/13/2013 4:49 PM, Leon wrote:
>>> On 12/13/2013 2:08 PM, Bill wrote:
>>>> Leon wrote:
>>>>> On 12/13/2013 12:31 PM, Bill wrote:
>>>>>> Man....
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://lumberjocks.com/topics/55735
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Fortunately no one was hurt. The punch line is an absolutely pun
>>>>>> though. He should have had a ____ Stop!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I will have to say he was pretty foolish and that was simply going to
>>>>> happen sooner or later.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm confused, their practice is to leave it in gear and the last
>>>>> person that used it left it in gear.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I think the original post had a typo. His practice was to leave it
>>>> out
>>>> of gear.
>>>
>>>
>>> I think so too. I was giving him the benefit of the doubt. Leaving it
>>> out of gear and not setting the break compounds the likelihood of an
>>> accident happening at any moment with out the motor running.
>>>
>>
>> I frequently leave my car with a standard transmission out of gear in my
>> garage. My garage is small and it is tight around the car. By leaving
>> it out of gear, if I want in the trunk I can push the car a little ahead
>> to make more room behind the car. If I am doing something in the front
>> of the garage I can push it back.
>>
>> If I get up in the morning and the car will not start, I push it out of
>> the garage, jump in before it is going to fast, and as it is rolling
>> back into the street, you can pop the clutch and start the motor.
>>
>> I will let someone else explain "popping the clutch"
>
>
> Popping the clutch, who would not know what that is. But still do you
> leave yur vehicle outside in neutral?

Usually not as I am not space limited out of doors. In our area when
parking in most places I set the emergency brake.


I mentioned explaining "popping the clutch", as one of the joys of
taking the car for service is to watch the young serviceman get in the
car and have no idea of what to do with the gear shift.

On 12/14/2013 2:22 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 01:06:22 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>> In Corpus Christi TX, north end of Padre Island and lots of fishing
>> there is lots of salt to keep things rusty. It was standard procedure
>> to drench cables with WD40 to expel the salt water.
>
> Probably not the same type of salt, but our roads and sidewalks are
> heavily salted in wintertime for traction. It's not uncommon for the
> snow to temporarily melt away and the ground is still white from all
> the salt spread on it. I've always wondered what all this road salt
> does to the eco system.
>
I have always thought it was amusing as when Rome defeated Carthage in
the Punic wars, they spread salt on the ground to destroy the land.

We voluntarily spread salt on our land.

In article <[email protected]>,
Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>On 12/13/2013 7:06 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
>> "Puckdropper" wrote:
>>
>>
>>> If you usually leave it out of gear, wouldn't you set the parking
>>> brake?
>>> A good push is all it takes to set a vehicle rolling.
>> --------------------------------------------
>> Those who use emergency brakes don't live in the "Rust Belt" unless a
>> lot of
>> things have changed.
>>
>> Spend the time to release a frozen emergency brake cable once and
>> you will never do it again.
>>
>
>Use your parking brake as you should and lubricate as indicated the rust
>will not develop badly enough to lock things up.
>
>
>

Rust is not necessary. In cold and we weather, the cable can literally
freeze, i.e water infiltrates the cable housing far enought so that when it
turns to ice the cable sticks. Working in fleet vehicle maintenance for
the last 35 years I have seen it happen many of times. All our road
call techs and garagemen carry propane torches this time of year. BTW,
always leave them in the cab of the truck. If they're stowed in an
unheated area they may not work too well til they warm up.

Try driving your car through a puddle a few times then parking it overnight
in freezing weather with the parking brake set hard. While a particular
car may or may not have the brake freeze, the odds are that some will
under these conditions.



--
When the game is over, the pawn and the king are returned to the same box.

Larry W. - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar.org

On 12/14/2013 11:15 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 12/14/2013 9:55 AM, Larry W wrote:
>> In article <[email protected]>,
>> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>> On 12/13/2013 7:06 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
>>>> "Puckdropper" wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> If you usually leave it out of gear, wouldn't you set the parking
>>>>> brake?
>>>>> A good push is all it takes to set a vehicle rolling.
>>>> --------------------------------------------
>>>> Those who use emergency brakes don't live in the "Rust Belt" unless a
>>>> lot of
>>>> things have changed.
>>>>
>>>> Spend the time to release a frozen emergency brake cable once and
>>>> you will never do it again.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Use your parking brake as you should and lubricate as indicated the rust
>>> will not develop badly enough to lock things up.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Rust is not necessary. In cold and we weather, the cable can literally
>> freeze, i.e water infiltrates the cable housing far enought so that
>> when it
>> turns to ice the cable sticks. Working in fleet vehicle maintenance for
>> the last 35 years I have seen it happen many of times.
>
> I can see that being an issue but certainly not the rust if you exercise
> the cables regularity.
>
>
>
>
>
> All our road
>> call techs and garagemen carry propane torches this time of year. BTW,
>> always leave them in the cab of the truck. If they're stowed in an
>> unheated area they may not work too well til they warm up.
>>
>> Try driving your car through a puddle a few times then parking it
>> overnight
>> in freezing weather with the parking brake set hard. While a particular
>> car may or may not have the brake freeze, the odds are that some will
>> under these conditions.
>
> And in those occasions, you leave the vehicle in gear or Park when you
> park it. Not taking some measure to prevent the vehicle from moving is
> laziness.
>
>

I remember one winter I had to go to a meeting in the evening. It was
zero that night. The brake did not freeze but the oil in the standard
transmission became so stiff that I could not shift until I let he car
run for a while to warm the transmission.

[email protected] wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Dec 2013 22:48:28 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Fri, 13 Dec 2013 13:31:34 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Man....
>>>>
>>>> http://lumberjocks.com/topics/55735
>>>>
>>>> Fortunately no one was hurt. The punch line is an absolutely horrible pun
>>>> though. He should have had a ____ Stop!
>>> A truck stop?
>> What else? I thought it was sort of funny when I first thought of it.
>> But I'd probably think Tesla was funny.
> What's a Tesla Stop? ;-)

I see you're not that funny either... ;) Didn't you notice the man was
sort-of driving an FMC 150?

I'd love to hear what the insurance company has to say. It's seems they
could pay off his claim and then sue him (for operating a vehicle
negligently).

In article <[email protected]>,
Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>On 12/14/2013 9:55 AM, Larry W wrote:
<...snipped...>
>> Rust is not necessary. In cold and we weather, the cable can literally
>> freeze, i.e water infiltrates the cable housing far enought so that when it
>> turns to ice the cable sticks. Working in fleet vehicle maintenance for
>> the last 35 years I have seen it happen many of times.
>
>I can see that being an issue but certainly not the rust if you exercise
>the cables regularity.
>
> All our road
>> call techs and garagemen carry propane torches this time of year. BTW,
>> always leave them in the cab of the truck. If they're stowed in an
>> unheated area they may not work too well til they warm up.
>>
>> Try driving your car through a puddle a few times then parking it overnight
>> in freezing weather with the parking brake set hard. While a particular
>> car may or may not have the brake freeze, the odds are that some will
>> under these conditions.
>
>And in those occasions, you leave the vehicle in gear or Park when you
>park it. Not taking some measure to prevent the vehicle from moving is
>laziness.
>

Could be laziness, could be ignorance, could be people in a hurry and
just forget, could even be intentional if the driver is less than honest
about his employment and thinks he can finagle some overtime out of
such a situation. My shops take care of 3000 vehicles spread out over
almost the whole state. I know better than to say "I've seen it all" or
that nothing will surprise me any more. Someone's always got a reason
or explanation you've never heard before.



--
When the game is over, the pawn and the king are returned to the same box.

Larry W. - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar.org

Keith Nuttle wrote:

> I mentioned explaining "popping the clutch", as one of the joys of
> taking the car for service is to watch the young serviceman get in the
> car and have no idea of what to do with the gear shift.

When my youngest daughter was living in Dallas while going to school, she
had a job for a while, parking cars that The Joule. Very upscale place, if
you don't already know. She drives a standard herself and as it turned out
she was the only one, or one of a very few valets that knew how to drive a
standard. So - she got to park a lot of very cool cars. The parking garage
was 3 blocks from the hotel and she got to wheel Mazzerattis, Porches,
Lamborghinis, and a ton of other very cool cars.

Some seriously big money frequents Charlie Palmer's which is the restaurant
in The Joule. One night the Dallas Cowboys held a birthday party there for
one of the members of the team. The whole team was there with their dates,
cameras all over the place, big time event. Megan worked for something like
14 hours. The valets had to run to or from the parking garage when they
went for, or parked a car, and they had to look crisp in black dress
trousers and white shirts. In Dallas. Well - she did it just as she was
supposed to. The million dollar players ponied up at the end of the night
when they got their cars delivered back to them and she earned... get this
all you Dallas fans... are you ready... sit down... nine stinkin' bucks in
tips.

(I may have the numbers backwards - it may have been nine hours and fourteen
stinkin' bucks...)

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Bill wrote:

> I see you're not that funny either... ;) Didn't you notice the man
> was sort-of driving an FMC 150?
>

Psssssst Bill... F-150...


> I'd love to hear what the insurance company has to say. It's seems
> they could pay off his claim and then sue him (for operating a vehicle
> negligently).

They can't do that.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Leon wrote:

> What we saw was a front rotor that was completely worn away to the
> cooling fins in the center and the caliper piston was welded to that
> rotor. Any sign of the pads was looooooong gone.
>
> We had to quote her a price for replacing everything between the upper
> and lower ball joints, it all had to be replaced, both sides.
>
> I asked her how long she had been listening to the noise coming from
> the front end. Her answer was a couple of days.

Choke... ummmmmm, Yup - I believe that m'am...

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Leon wrote:
> On 12/14/2013 12:47 PM, Bill wrote:
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Fri, 13 Dec 2013 22:48:28 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 13 Dec 2013 13:31:34 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Man....
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://lumberjocks.com/topics/55735
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Fortunately no one was hurt. The punch line is an absolutely
>>>>>> horrible pun
>>>>>> though. He should have had a ____ Stop!
>>>>> A truck stop?
>>>> What else? I thought it was sort of funny when I first thought of it.
>>>> But I'd probably think Tesla was funny.
>>> What's a Tesla Stop? ;-)
>>
>> I see you're not that funny either... ;) Didn't you notice the man was
>> sort-of driving an FMC 150?
>>
>> I'd love to hear what the insurance company has to say. It's seems they
>> could pay off his claim and then sue him (for operating a vehicle
>> negligently).
>>
>
>
> Probably not, if they could they would be suing every one, that they
> insure, that got a ticket for having an accident.

Maybe the answer depends on whether the insured lives in a "No-Fault"
state or not. In Indiana, they are not afraid to sue.

Bill wrote:

>
> Maybe the answer depends on whether the insured lives in a "No-Fault"
> state or not. In Indiana, they are not afraid to sue.

That strikes me as quite odd. What would be the purpose of insurance if the
insurance company were to simply turn around and sue you for collecting?
Are you quite certain of what you claim Bill? Got any links to this kind of
behavior by insurance companies in Indianna?

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

[email protected] wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 13:47:08 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Fri, 13 Dec 2013 22:48:28 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 13 Dec 2013 13:31:34 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Man....
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://lumberjocks.com/topics/55735
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Fortunately no one was hurt. The punch line is an absolutely horrible pun
>>>>>> though. He should have had a ____ Stop!
>>>>> A truck stop?
>>>> What else? I thought it was sort of funny when I first thought of it.
>>>> But I'd probably think Tesla was funny.
>>> What's a Tesla Stop? ;-)
>> I see you're not that funny either... ;)
> ;-) Thinking of it again, I suppose this is a Tesla Stop.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0kjI08n4fg
I see Tesla still has a few bugs to get worked out...
In the meantime, we can all work on our sense of humor. : )

Mike Marlow wrote:
> Bill wrote:
>
>> Maybe the answer depends on whether the insured lives in a "No-Fault"
>> state or not. In Indiana, they are not afraid to sue.
> That strikes me as quite odd. What would be the purpose of insurance if the
> insurance company were to simply turn around and sue you for collecting?
> Are you quite certain of what you claim Bill? Got any links to this kind of
> behavior by insurance companies in Indianna?
>
To me, it seems like the entity paying off on the homeowner's policy
could sue the entity holding the auto-liability policy. Obviously, if
they are the same company, then the there is no issue.

I can tell you for based upon a little bit of experience, that in a
"non-no-fault" state--in an accident, the insurance company of a
negligent party will pay for all of the losses (or whatever the
companies "settle" upon).

Bill wrote:
> Mike Marlow wrote:
>> Bill wrote:
>>
>>> Maybe the answer depends on whether the insured lives in a
>>> "No-Fault" state or not. In Indiana, they are not afraid to sue.
>> That strikes me as quite odd. What would be the purpose of
>> insurance if the insurance company were to simply turn around and
>> sue you for collecting? Are you quite certain of what you claim
>> Bill? Got any links to this kind of behavior by insurance companies
>> in Indianna?

> To me, it seems like the entity paying off on the homeowner's policy
> could sue the entity holding the auto-liability policy. Obviously, if
> they are the same company, then the there is no issue.

I understand that makes sense to you but that's not what you asserted in
your previous post. As for those two policies, I really don't know which
one would have to pay. But - that's a lot different from saying that
insurance companies sue policy holders in Indianna - unless of course, I
misunderstood what you were trying to say in the previous post. As for
insurance companies going after each other - that is commonplace everywhere,
but it's a herse of a different color.

>
> I can tell you for based upon a little bit of experience, that in a
> "non-no-fault" state--in an accident, the insurance company of a
> negligent party will pay for all of the losses (or whatever the
> companies "settle" upon).

That applies even in No-Fault states. There's nothing unique to Indianna
about that. It's just how insurance works.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Bill wrote:

>>
> To me, it seems like the entity paying off on the homeowner's policy
> could sue the entity holding the auto-liability policy. Obviously, if
> they are the same company, then the there is no issue.

As best as I understand No Fault insurance - and I'm no expert - it only
applies to liability insurance - meaning bodily injury, not property damage.
Since there were no injuries, there is no liability claim.

>
> I can tell you for based upon a little bit of experience, that in a
> "non-no-fault" state--in an accident, the insurance company of a
> negligent party will pay for all of the losses (or whatever the
> companies "settle" upon).

To be more clear with respect to my previous reply - for collission claims
the same applies in a No Fault state, like NY. Only bodily injury is
subject to No Fault.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

"Bill"
> Maybe the answer depends on
whether the insured lives in a
"No-Fault"
> state or not. In Indiana, they
are not afraid to sue.
>

I don't think he lives in the United States if he
can
stand on his right foot, on the ground, and put
his left foot on the clutch pedal. Something is
very wrong with this story....

Mike Marlow wrote:
> Bill wrote:
>> Mike Marlow wrote:
>>> Bill wrote:
>>>
>>>> Maybe the answer depends on whether the insured lives in a
>>>> "No-Fault" state or not. In Indiana, they are not afraid to sue.
>>> That strikes me as quite odd. What would be the purpose of
>>> insurance if the insurance company were to simply turn around and
>>> sue you for collecting? Are you quite certain of what you claim
>>> Bill? Got any links to this kind of behavior by insurance companies
>>> in Indianna?
>> To me, it seems like the entity paying off on the homeowner's policy
>> could sue the entity holding the auto-liability policy. Obviously, if
>> they are the same company, then the there is no issue.
> I understand that makes sense to you but that's not what you asserted in
> your previous post.
I explained my thoughts as well as I could.

> As for those two policies, I really don't know which
> one would have to pay. But - that's a lot different from saying that
> insurance companies sue policy holders in Indianna - unless of course, I
> misunderstood what you were trying to say in the previous post. As for
> insurance companies going after each other - that is commonplace everywhere,
> but it's a herse of a different color.
>
>> I can tell you for based upon a little bit of experience, that in a
>> "non-no-fault" state--in an accident, the insurance company of a
>> negligent party will pay for all of the losses (or whatever the
>> companies "settle" upon).
> That applies even in No-Fault states. There's nothing unique to Indianna
> about that. It's just how insurance works.
>
In my (limited) experience, in no-fault states, the insurance companies
don't seem to be so aggressive--they just pay their
claimants and move on. This is in stark contrast to the non-no fault
states.

Mike Marlow wrote:
> Bill wrote:
>
>> To me, it seems like the entity paying off on the homeowner's policy
>> could sue the entity holding the auto-liability policy. Obviously, if
>> they are the same company, then the there is no issue.
> As best as I understand No Fault insurance - and I'm no expert - it only
> applies to liability insurance - meaning bodily injury, not property damage.
> Since there were no injuries, there is no liability claim.
>
>> I can tell you for based upon a little bit of experience, that in a
>> "non-no-fault" state--in an accident, the insurance company of a
>> negligent party will pay for all of the losses (or whatever the
>> companies "settle" upon).
> To be more clear with respect to my previous reply - for collission claims
> the same applies in a No Fault state, like NY. Only bodily injury is
> subject to No Fault.
>
I don't doubt that you are completely correct. We started off ignoring
lots of details. Now we're ready to be the judge and jury! ;)

Bill wrote:

> In my (limited) experience, in no-fault states, the insurance
> companies don't seem to be so aggressive--they just pay their
> claimants and move on. This is in stark contrast to the non-no fault
> states.

Only for liability though. For collission claims - it works the same as a
non-No Fault state.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

[email protected] wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 16:27:14 -0800, "Lew Hodgett"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Somebody wrote:
>>
>>> What's a Tesla Stop?
>> -------------------------------------
>> A place where you stop a Tesla, of course.
>>
> Where it catches fire is a good place to stop a Tesla. (Sorry, Bill)
"Recharging station" would work for Tesla Stop too.
I would regard the previous notion as more of a "Tesla Grill". ; )

On 12/13/2013 11:28 PM, Leon wrote:
> On 12/13/2013 7:06 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
>> "Puckdropper" wrote:
>>
>>
>>> If you usually leave it out of gear, wouldn't you set the parking
>>> brake?
>>> A good push is all it takes to set a vehicle rolling.
>> --------------------------------------------
>> Those who use emergency brakes don't live in the "Rust Belt" unless a
>> lot of
>> things have changed.
>>
>> Spend the time to release a frozen emergency brake cable once and
>> you will never do it again.
>>
>
> Use your parking brake as you should and lubricate as indicated the rust
> will not develop badly enough to lock things up.
>
>
>
No to emergency brakes in freezing temperatures. Same reason to never
park track equipment (dozers, etc) on the ground in freezing temperatures.

--


___________________________________

Keep the whole world singing . . .
Dan G
remove the seven

[email protected] wrote:
> On Sun, 15 Dec 2013 08:31:14 -0600, Leon <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Mike Marlow wrote:
>>>> Bill wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Maybe the answer depends on whether the insured lives in a
>>>>> "No-Fault" state or not. In Indiana, they are not afraid to sue.
>>>> That strikes me as quite odd. What would be the purpose of
>>>> insurance if the insurance company were to simply turn around and
>>>> sue you for collecting? Are you quite certain of what you claim
>>>> Bill? Got any links to this kind of behavior by insurance
>>>> companies in Indianna?
>>>>
>>> To me, it seems like the entity paying off on the homeowner's policy
>>> could sue the entity holding the auto-liability policy. Obviously,
>>> if
>>> they are the same company, then the there is no issue.
>>>
>>> I can tell you for based upon a little bit of experience, that in a
>>> "non-no-fault" state--in an accident, the insurance company of a
>>> negligent party will pay for all of the losses (or whatever the
>>> companies "settle" upon).
>>
>> Typically with no fault, insurance companies will pay for damages
>> and look into collecting from the other guy, whether it be the other
>> guy or his insurance.
>
> That's a case of "you're insured but the other guy (should) is still
> liable for damage". This is the reason that "no fault" tends to
> increase the cost of insurance. The law hasn't improved anything but
> added another layer of insurance.

Not at all. No Fault only deals with personal injury (liability insurance).
It is a disaster unto itself because states like NY have made it such a
nightmare to naviage the laws, but that's a different matter entirely. No
one seems to realize that no fault is not what Bill was even talking about.
This was not a no fault case. It seems to me that most people understand
less about no fault than even I do...

>
> Similarly, insurance companies will pay off on "collision" coverage
> and then try to collect from the other guy under his "liability"

WRONG! Under his collision insurance. Liability and collision are two
different things.

> coverage. I had that happen but the other guy wasn't to be collected
> upon (DUI, switched plates, no insurance, attempt to leave the scene,
> on parole - all around all-American guy).

Right from your mouth - "no insurance..."

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

[email protected] wrote:
> On Sun, 15 Dec 2013 13:18:53 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Sun, 15 Dec 2013 08:31:14 -0600, Leon <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> Mike Marlow wrote:
>>>>>> Bill wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Maybe the answer depends on whether the insured lives in a
>>>>>>> "No-Fault" state or not. In Indiana, they are not afraid to sue.
>>>>>> That strikes me as quite odd. What would be the purpose of
>>>>>> insurance if the insurance company were to simply turn around and
>>>>>> sue you for collecting? Are you quite certain of what you claim
>>>>>> Bill? Got any links to this kind of behavior by insurance
>>>>>> companies in Indianna?
>>>>>>
>>>>> To me, it seems like the entity paying off on the homeowner's policy
>>>>> could sue the entity holding the auto-liability policy. Obviously,
>>>>> if
>>>>> they are the same company, then the there is no issue.
>>>>>
>>>>> I can tell you for based upon a little bit of experience, that in a
>>>>> "non-no-fault" state--in an accident, the insurance company of a
>>>>> negligent party will pay for all of the losses (or whatever the
>>>>> companies "settle" upon).
>>>> Typically with no fault, insurance companies will pay for damages
>>>> and look into collecting from the other guy, whether it be the other
>>>> guy or his insurance.
>>> That's a case of "you're insured but the other guy (should) is still
>>> liable for damage". This is the reason that "no fault" tends to
>>> increase the cost of insurance. The law hasn't improved anything but
>>> added another layer of insurance.
>> Not at all. No Fault only deals with personal injury (liability insurance).
> In NY, yes, but there is no reason it can't cover all insurance.
>
>> It is a disaster unto itself because states like NY have made it such a
>> nightmare to naviage the laws, but that's a different matter entirely.
> Yes, there is no reason to have double-coverage. All it does is make
> the lawyers rich.
>
>> No
>> one seems to realize that no fault is not what Bill was even talking about.
>> This was not a no fault case. It seems to me that most people understand
>> less about no fault than even I do...
> Sure. Not contesting that point.
>
>>> Similarly, insurance companies will pay off on "collision" coverage
>>> and then try to collect from the other guy under his "liability"
>> WRONG! Under his collision insurance. Liability and collision are two
>> different things.
> WRONG! Collision covers damage to your car. Liability covers damage
> to other's property.
Well, that illustrates why we "don't know anything". The rules are
too complicated! Maybe we need Obama-Auto-Care? :: ducking::

> When you get into an accident, not your fault,
> your insurance company (if they're worth anything) will pay out,
> immediately, under your collision coverage and then recoup the money
> from the other company, under the other operator's LIABILITY coverage.
>
>>> coverage. I had that happen but the other guy wasn't to be collected
>>> upon (DUI, switched plates, no insurance, attempt to leave the scene,
>>> on parole - all around all-American guy).
>> Right from your mouth - "no insurance..."
> <sigh> They then *TRIED* to collect from the other moron. Since he
> was such a moron, he had no insurance and no possibility of collecting
> anything. If he had even my deductible, it would have been reimbursed
> to me.

[email protected] wrote:
> On Sun, 15 Dec 2013 13:18:53 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>

>
> In NY, yes, but there is no reason it can't cover all insurance.
>

That could be. Like I said - I'm no expert, but I looked a short amount at
some different state's no fault implementation and I got the impression that
NY's model was fairly standard. I didn't look a lot, so I might have jumped
to a conclusion.

>
>>> Similarly, insurance companies will pay off on "collision" coverage
>>> and then try to collect from the other guy under his "liability"
>>
>> WRONG! Under his collision insurance. Liability and collision are
>> two different things.
>
> WRONG! Collision covers damage to your car. Liability covers damage
> to other's property. When you get into an accident, not your fault,
> your insurance company (if they're worth anything) will pay out,
> immediately, under your collision coverage and then recoup the money
> from the other company, under the other operator's LIABILITY coverage.

Ok - I'll accept that.


--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Bill wrote:

> Well, that illustrates why we "don't know anything". The rules
> are too complicated! Maybe we need Obama-Auto-Care? :: ducking::
>

You said a mouthful!

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On 12/14/2013 9:55 AM, Larry W wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>> On 12/13/2013 7:06 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
>>> "Puckdropper" wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> If you usually leave it out of gear, wouldn't you set the parking
>>>> brake?
>>>> A good push is all it takes to set a vehicle rolling.
>>> --------------------------------------------
>>> Those who use emergency brakes don't live in the "Rust Belt" unless a
>>> lot of
>>> things have changed.
>>>
>>> Spend the time to release a frozen emergency brake cable once and
>>> you will never do it again.
>>>
>>
>> Use your parking brake as you should and lubricate as indicated the rust
>> will not develop badly enough to lock things up.
>>
>>
>>
>
> Rust is not necessary. In cold and we weather, the cable can literally
> freeze, i.e water infiltrates the cable housing far enought so that when it
> turns to ice the cable sticks. Working in fleet vehicle maintenance for
> the last 35 years I have seen it happen many of times.

I can see that being an issue but certainly not the rust if you exercise
the cables regularity.





All our road
> call techs and garagemen carry propane torches this time of year. BTW,
> always leave them in the cab of the truck. If they're stowed in an
> unheated area they may not work too well til they warm up.
>
> Try driving your car through a puddle a few times then parking it overnight
> in freezing weather with the parking brake set hard. While a particular
> car may or may not have the brake freeze, the odds are that some will
> under these conditions.

And in those occasions, you leave the vehicle in gear or Park when you
park it. Not taking some measure to prevent the vehicle from moving is
laziness.

On Fri, 13 Dec 2013 14:04:03 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

>On 12/13/2013 12:31 PM, Bill wrote:
>> Man....
>>
>> http://lumberjocks.com/topics/55735
>>
>> Fortunately no one was hurt. The punch line is an absolutely pun
>> though. He should have had a ____ Stop!
>
>
>I will have to say he was pretty foolish and that was simply going to
>happen sooner or later.
>
>I'm confused, their practice is to leave it in gear and the last person
>that used it left it in gear. I wonder what part of the practice,
>starting the vehicle the way he does, that he did not see as being a
>likely problem.

When I had sticks, I always left them in gear (reverse).

>I award him a trophy for participation!

...and an honorable mention for, well, even mentioning the damned fool
mistake.

On Fri, 13 Dec 2013 17:06:40 -0800, "Lew Hodgett"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"Puckdropper" wrote:
>
>
>> If you usually leave it out of gear, wouldn't you set the parking
>> brake?
>> A good push is all it takes to set a vehicle rolling.
>--------------------------------------------
>Those who use emergency brakes don't live in the "Rust Belt" unless a
>lot of
>things have changed.

Global warming?

>Spend the time to release a frozen emergency brake cable once and
>you will never do it again.

Yup. I used to get gigged on inspections for a rusted brakes all the
time. Never used the parking brake. Still don't.

>Trust me.
>
>Some things you NEVER forget.

On 12/13/2013 12:31 PM, Bill wrote:
> Man....
>
> http://lumberjocks.com/topics/55735
>
> Fortunately no one was hurt. The punch line is an absolutely pun
> though. He should have had a ____ Stop!


I will have to say he was pretty foolish and that was simply going to
happen sooner or later.

I'm confused, their practice is to leave it in gear and the last person
that used it left it in gear. I wonder what part of the practice,
starting the vehicle the way he does, that he did not see as being a
likely problem.


I award him a trophy for participation!

On 12/13/2013 5:15 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
> On 12/13/2013 4:49 PM, Leon wrote:
>> On 12/13/2013 2:08 PM, Bill wrote:
>>> Leon wrote:
>>>> On 12/13/2013 12:31 PM, Bill wrote:
>>>>> Man....
>>>>>
>>>>> http://lumberjocks.com/topics/55735
>>>>>
>>>>> Fortunately no one was hurt. The punch line is an absolutely pun
>>>>> though. He should have had a ____ Stop!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I will have to say he was pretty foolish and that was simply going to
>>>> happen sooner or later.
>>>>
>>>> I'm confused, their practice is to leave it in gear and the last
>>>> person that used it left it in gear.
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I think the original post had a typo. His practice was to leave it out
>>> of gear.
>>
>>
>> I think so too. I was giving him the benefit of the doubt. Leaving it
>> out of gear and not setting the break compounds the likelihood of an
>> accident happening at any moment with out the motor running.
>>
>
> I frequently leave my car with a standard transmission out of gear in my
> garage. My garage is small and it is tight around the car. By leaving
> it out of gear, if I want in the trunk I can push the car a little ahead
> to make more room behind the car. If I am doing something in the front
> of the garage I can push it back.
>
> If I get up in the morning and the car will not start, I push it out of
> the garage, jump in before it is going to fast, and as it is rolling
> back into the street, you can pop the clutch and start the motor.
>
> I will let someone else explain "popping the clutch"


Popping the clutch, who would not know what that is. But still do you
leave yur vehicle outside in neutral?

On 12/14/2013 12:31 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 10:32:37 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 12/14/2013 10:29 AM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
>>> On 12/14/2013 11:15 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>> On 12/14/2013 9:55 AM, Larry W wrote:
>>>>> In article <[email protected]>,
>>>>> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>>>>> On 12/13/2013 7:06 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
>>>>>>> "Puckdropper" wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you usually leave it out of gear, wouldn't you set the parking
>>>>>>>> brake?
>>>>>>>> A good push is all it takes to set a vehicle rolling.
>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> Those who use emergency brakes don't live in the "Rust Belt" unless a
>>>>>>> lot of
>>>>>>> things have changed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Spend the time to release a frozen emergency brake cable once and
>>>>>>> you will never do it again.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Use your parking brake as you should and lubricate as indicated the
>>>>>> rust
>>>>>> will not develop badly enough to lock things up.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Rust is not necessary. In cold and we weather, the cable can literally
>>>>> freeze, i.e water infiltrates the cable housing far enought so that
>>>>> when it
>>>>> turns to ice the cable sticks. Working in fleet vehicle maintenance for
>>>>> the last 35 years I have seen it happen many of times.
>>>>
>>>> I can see that being an issue but certainly not the rust if you exercise
>>>> the cables regularity.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> All our road
>>>>> call techs and garagemen carry propane torches this time of year. BTW,
>>>>> always leave them in the cab of the truck. If they're stowed in an
>>>>> unheated area they may not work too well til they warm up.
>>>>>
>>>>> Try driving your car through a puddle a few times then parking it
>>>>> overnight
>>>>> in freezing weather with the parking brake set hard. While a particular
>>>>> car may or may not have the brake freeze, the odds are that some will
>>>>> under these conditions.
>>>>
>>>> And in those occasions, you leave the vehicle in gear or Park when you
>>>> park it. Not taking some measure to prevent the vehicle from moving is
>>>> laziness.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> I remember one winter I had to go to a meeting in the evening. It was
>>> zero that night. The brake did not freeze but the oil in the standard
>>> transmission became so stiff that I could not shift until I let he car
>>> run for a while to warm the transmission.
>>>
>> Oh heck yeah!
>>
>> Back in the late 80's, before the global warming fad, Houston used to
>> get pretty cold. I recall similar situations with my 87 Isuzu Trooper.
>> The temperature was "7" degrees F and that thing was a beast to drive
>> when it got cold.
>
> Try 40F colder than that. ;-)
>

I think you will have to agree that 7 is cold, damn cold for SE Texas.
IIRC back when SE Texas was naming their small towns Pearland, Orange
after their orchards, Galveston Bay froze.

On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 18:46:51 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
wrote:

>[email protected] wrote:
>> On Sat, 14 Dec 2013 13:47:08 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 13 Dec 2013 22:48:28 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>> On Fri, 13 Dec 2013 13:31:34 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Man....
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://lumberjocks.com/topics/55735
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Fortunately no one was hurt. The punch line is an absolutely horrible pun
>>>>>>> though. He should have had a ____ Stop!
>>>>>> A truck stop?
>>>>> What else? I thought it was sort of funny when I first thought of it.
>>>>> But I'd probably think Tesla was funny.
>>>> What's a Tesla Stop? ;-)
>>> I see you're not that funny either... ;)
>> ;-) Thinking of it again, I suppose this is a Tesla Stop.
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0kjI08n4fg
>I see Tesla still has a few bugs to get worked out...
>In the meantime, we can all work on our sense of humor. : )

I guess it's _not_ working, huh?

On 12/14/2013 1:36 PM, Larry W wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>> On 12/14/2013 9:55 AM, Larry W wrote:
> <...snipped...>
>>> Rust is not necessary. In cold and we weather, the cable can literally
>>> freeze, i.e water infiltrates the cable housing far enought so that when it
>>> turns to ice the cable sticks. Working in fleet vehicle maintenance for
>>> the last 35 years I have seen it happen many of times.
>>
>> I can see that being an issue but certainly not the rust if you exercise
>> the cables regularity.
>>
>> All our road
>>> call techs and garagemen carry propane torches this time of year. BTW,
>>> always leave them in the cab of the truck. If they're stowed in an
>>> unheated area they may not work too well til they warm up.
>>>
>>> Try driving your car through a puddle a few times then parking it overnight
>>> in freezing weather with the parking brake set hard. While a particular
>>> car may or may not have the brake freeze, the odds are that some will
>>> under these conditions.
>>
>> And in those occasions, you leave the vehicle in gear or Park when you
>> park it. Not taking some measure to prevent the vehicle from moving is
>> laziness.
>>
>
> Could be laziness, could be ignorance, could be people in a hurry and
> just forget, could even be intentional if the driver is less than honest
> about his employment and thinks he can finagle some overtime out of
> such a situation. My shops take care of 3000 vehicles spread out over
> almost the whole state. I know better than to say "I've seen it all" or
> that nothing will surprise me any more. Someone's always got a reason
> or explanation you've never heard before.
>
>
>
Way back when, a customer had her vehicle brought in on the hook. The
vehicle would not budge. She called in complaining and warning of its
arrival. She complained that a vehicle with 40,000 miles should not be
breaking down. I paid good money bla bla bla.

When the Wrecker arrived I had the driver back it on to a lift. He
suspected that the front brakes were the problem. I had a mechanic
remove the front wheels and we had a look.

What we saw was a front rotor that was completely worn away to the
cooling fins in the center and the caliper piston was welded to that
rotor. Any sign of the pads was looooooong gone.

We had to quote her a price for replacing everything between the upper
and lower ball joints, it all had to be replaced, both sides.

I asked her how long she had been listening to the noise coming from the
front end. Her answer was a couple of days.

On 12/14/2013 12:47 PM, Bill wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
>> On Fri, 13 Dec 2013 22:48:28 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 13 Dec 2013 13:31:34 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Man....
>>>>>
>>>>> http://lumberjocks.com/topics/55735
>>>>>
>>>>> Fortunately no one was hurt. The punch line is an absolutely
>>>>> horrible pun
>>>>> though. He should have had a ____ Stop!
>>>> A truck stop?
>>> What else? I thought it was sort of funny when I first thought of it.
>>> But I'd probably think Tesla was funny.
>> What's a Tesla Stop? ;-)
>
> I see you're not that funny either... ;) Didn't you notice the man was
> sort-of driving an FMC 150?
>
> I'd love to hear what the insurance company has to say. It's seems they
> could pay off his claim and then sue him (for operating a vehicle
> negligently).
>


Probably not, if they could they would be suing every one, that they
insure, that got a ticket for having an accident.