(Also posted to rec.music.makers.percussion)
I recently finished up another drum I've been working on. This one is a
20"x15" bass drum constructed from Black Walnut:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/sets/72157625838936416/
Here are some pictures of the various jigs I used to build it:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/sets/72157625838041282/
Now I just need to build the rest of the drums so I'll have a full set to play!
--
"Even if your wife is happy but you're unhappy, you're still happier
than you'd be if you were happy and your wife was unhappy." - Red Green
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
On 1/17/2011 2:13 PM, Steve Turner wrote:
> It was an
> exciting moment, but after that it was kind of a let-down thinking I may
> never have another need for that wonderful new plane! :-)
If you're like me, you don't have all the pieces you've built done
through the years, but you still have all the jigs. At any given time
I've got more shop space tied up storing jigs than on-going project parts.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)
On Jan 16, 10:13=A0pm, Steve Turner <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
> Thanks! =A0Yeah, the jigs get the job done, but I've been pondering how t=
o
> construct my "second generation" jigs, complete with offsetting guide rol=
lers
> to keep the shells firmly in position, and with motors to spin the shells
> (slowly) during milling so that I don't have to spin them by hand. =A0:-)
How about pedal or treadle driven?
R
On Jan 18, 11:01=A0am, Steve Turner <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Well Robert, this is where you come in. =A0:-) =A0I sprayed one single we=
t coat of
> the satin "Kwick Kleen" conversion lacquer that you steered me towards.
Wow! How cool is that? You never know, right?
> Actually, the can says "fast drying polyurethane", but it thins with lacq=
uer
> thinner, and it certainly looks, smells, and feels like a lacquer to me.
> I LOVE the stuff! =A0It goes on like a dream, dries to the touch in about=
5
> minutes, and looks gorgeous. =A0Thanks a million for the recommendation.
I am hugely pleased you liked it (and that it worked for you!) as it
is certainly my favorite finish. When I need a go-to, bullet proof
finish, that's my first choice.
Never let me down yet, and I have put about 40 gallons on all manner
of projects inside and out.
Honestly, I don't know what it is.
I went to my Dad's house a couple of months ago and looked at the
front door he had me replace along with hardware, etc. He was an
older fella then, and wanted a good finish on it, but nothing too
exotic. That was about 8 years ago. It looks brand new!
I might have to rustle around the HD and find a pic to post of that
one as it was an unusual grain pattern that I set on fire. You would
probably get a charge out of it.
I just go through looking over your finished project and your most
excellent plane. Great stuff.
Robert
In article <[email protected]>, Steve Turner
<[email protected]> wrote:
> I recently finished up another drum I've been working on. This one is a
> 20"x15" bass drum constructed from Black Walnut:
Gorgeous work, Steve.
What bit do you use to mill the inside?
On Jan 19, 12:02 pm, Steve Turner <[email protected]> wrote:
> I ordered it straight from Kwick Kleen, and received excellent service.
As a sidebar to the product, make sure you stir well if you buy their
satin/semigloss product. Dave will get nasty with you about using a
POWER stirrer (as on a drill) if you call with a semi gloss problem.
(Say Robert... how do you know that??)
Anyway, for quality's sake, he small batches this stuff in his
warehouse. When he makes the semigloss/satin products, he puts the
flatner on the bottom of the can and adds the clear finish in top.
When I had some problem with finish consistency, Dave knew it was my
fault. (It was kind of like talking to myself, really.... ;^) ).
He quickly go to the problem of my incorrect mixing of his product
before use. After opening the can I looked through the clear finish
on the top, and saw the cloudy flatners on the bottom. I <assumed>
that the cloudiness I was seeing was the the flattening material mixed
in the solution, not just sitting on the bottom of the can.
For the record, I only power stir the day before I use a product, and
stick stir the day of use. Introducing air into the finish is a no-no
for a host of reasons. Bubbles are only the start. Power stirring is
for latex paint and grout.
Anyway, my conversation with Dave was left with his questions: "Well,
if you are a professional finisher, how is it you didn't properly stir
the finish before use? I clearly state that as with all finishes you
should power stir on low speed for 5 minutes before mixing or using."
And the second, "how long did you say you had been doing this?"
**ouch**
Dave (owner/chief chemist) is a bit prickly, but knows his stuff
frontwards, backwards and sideways and with both eyes closed. If
anyone here gets a large stripping/refinishing project, they sell a
stripper that is a semi gel product that will eat though epoxy paints,
etch metal, and is really, really nasty. Which is good.
I bought a five of it to use on a 4' x 7' wood door to a large
commercial facility that had literally about 8 or more coats of
urethane over the original custom finish. And the original finish was
actually a floor finishing product that was applied here locally by a
door company. It is good stuff.
But Dave's stripper took 90% of it off in the very first pass, and the
rest of it in a quick reapplication.
I don't do near the business with him I used to, but I doubt I will
ever lose his number.
Robert
>
> I've got an extra cowbell. =A0:-)
>
I've gotta have more cowbell. Gimme more cowbell!
I played drums on half of the songs on a buddies album a few years
back. Then I spent a day helping with some over dubs doing percussion.
On one song I played a cowbell and I did a roll in a few spots by
putting a stick inside the cowbell and slapping it back and forth. My
buddy and the producer were so impressed they called it "Power cow"
and on the liner notes I get credit as playing "Power cow" on that
song.
Ahh, found it on google http://mars-studios.com/ClarkYost/
"Steve Turner" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> (Also posted to rec.music.makers.percussion)
>
> I recently finished up another drum I've been working on. This one is a
> 20"x15" bass drum constructed from Black Walnut:
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/sets/72157625838936416/
>
> Here are some pictures of the various jigs I used to build it:
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/sets/72157625838041282/
>
> Now I just need to build the rest of the drums so I'll have a full set to
> play!
>
Looks very nice!
I don't know anything about building drums. Is this the usual way of doing
things? Or is there a much cheaper, simpler way of doing things?
On 2011-01-16 16:52:54 -0500, Steve Turner
<[email protected]> said:
> I recently finished up another drum I've been working on. This one is
> a 20"x15" bass drum constructed from Black Walnut:
That is gorgeous! As is your trim plane. And thanks for the jigging
ideas. I'll never make a drum (probably), but I'll bet sooner or later
I come up with some project that could use those ideas.
"Steve Turner"wrote:
> Thanks Lew. Too bad the wood I had available to do this project
> wasn't Honduras Mahogany instead of Black Walnut, but I'm happy with
> the way it turned out. Maybe one of these days I'll run across an
> old retired Chris Craft that wants to be reborn as a set of drums.
> :-)
-------------------------------
You gotta know these people.
http://www.aitwood.com/
Good folks.
Lew
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I ordered it straight from Kwick Kleen, and received excellent
>> service.
>
> As a sidebar to the product, make sure you stir well if you buy
> their
> satin/semigloss product. Dave will get nasty with you about using a
> POWER stirrer (as on a drill) if you call with a semi gloss problem.
<snip>
SFWIW, when it comes to drill motor mounted power mixers, you have
JIFFY MIXER and you have JIFFY MIXER.
Gallon size is about $20.
They are stainless steel which means you can clean them with a propane
torch.
Lew
On Jan 17, 3:35=A0pm, "Morgans" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "RicodJour" <[email protected]> wrote
>
>
>
> > I know exactly zero about drums, so take this with a shaker of salt
> > (preferably with a few lemons and a bottle of tequila), and I have no
> > idea about drum sizing, so this may be totally off the wall, but could
> > you use a section of plastic sewer pipe, wrap veneer around it and
> > vacuum bag the sucker?
>
> Wouldn't work, I believe.
>
> In using vacuum bagging, the pressure pushes layers together or into a
> shaped form. =A0In this case, the pressing together tighter would also ne=
ed to
> coil the veneer tighter, rotating around the jig. =A0Unless you had a way=
to
> rotate the veneers as you bagged it, it would not allow the veneer to be
> compressed against the other layers.
>
> It might work if each layer was separate from the other layers, so there =
was
> only a short overlap, or no overlap.
>
> When a drum is built using veneers, it has glue applied, and tightened an=
d
> held tight as it is rolled around the form.
Yeah, I can see that is an issue. Leaving 'contraction space' so the
veneer meeting edges would just touch as the vaccum was applied would
also be difficult. What about laying up the veneers inside the sewer
pipe and using a pneumatic bladder to press the veneer against the
pipe?
R
On Jan 16, 10:08=A0pm, Steve Turner <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
> No, the vast majority of modern drums are built using multiple plies of t=
hin
> veneer, laminated with heat and pressure in large cylindrical presses tha=
t are
> far beyond the means and capabilities of the average woodworker. =A0The l=
evel of
> quality achieved by most modern manufacturers is actually quite impressiv=
e;
> probably an order of magnitude better than the best quality baltic birch
> plywood that you and I are used to seeing at our local hardwood supplier.
> Shells built in this fashion can be ridiculously thin (less than 1/4") ye=
t
> still very strong and durable. =A0Many manufacturers are also doing amazi=
ng
> things with fancy finishes and exotic wood veneers, and I only wish I had=
the
> facilities to build drums in this fashion.
I know exactly zero about drums, so take this with a shaker of salt
(preferably with a few lemons and a bottle of tequila), and I have no
idea about drum sizing, so this may be totally off the wall, but could
you use a section of plastic sewer pipe, wrap veneer around it and
vacuum bag the sucker?
R
> Yeah, I can see that is an issue. Leaving 'contraction space' so the
> veneer meeting edges would just touch as the vaccum was applied would
> also be difficult. What about laying up the veneers inside the sewer
> pipe and using a pneumatic bladder to press the veneer against the
> pipe?
Still the same problem. You are asking the veneer to slip laterally as the
glue squeezes out. Ever try to coil up a roll of aluminum flashing, to make
the roll smaller? You have to coil the inside before you can get the
outside to get smaller. You can not pull on the outside layer to get it
tighter. It just does not work.
--
Jim in NC
"RicodJour" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> I know exactly zero about drums, so take this with a shaker of salt
> (preferably with a few lemons and a bottle of tequila), and I have no
> idea about drum sizing, so this may be totally off the wall, but could
> you use a section of plastic sewer pipe, wrap veneer around it and
> vacuum bag the sucker?
Wouldn't work, I believe.
In using vacuum bagging, the pressure pushes layers together or into a
shaped form. In this case, the pressing together tighter would also need to
coil the veneer tighter, rotating around the jig. Unless you had a way to
rotate the veneers as you bagged it, it would not allow the veneer to be
compressed against the other layers.
It might work if each layer was separate from the other layers, so there was
only a short overlap, or no overlap.
When a drum is built using veneers, it has glue applied, and tightened and
held tight as it is rolled around the form.
--
Jim in NC
In article <0d7de127-d67c-4fbf-bf28-54bdaf383cb4
@k25g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>, [email protected] says...
>
> On Jan 18, 11:01 am, Steve Turner <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> > Well Robert, this is where you come in. :-) I sprayed one single wet coat of
> > the satin "Kwick Kleen" conversion lacquer that you steered me towards.
>
> Wow! How cool is that? You never know, right?
>
> > Actually, the can says "fast drying polyurethane", but it thins with lacquer
> > thinner, and it certainly looks, smells, and feels like a lacquer to me.
> > I LOVE the stuff! It goes on like a dream, dries to the touch in about 5
> > minutes, and looks gorgeous. Thanks a million for the recommendation.
>
> I am hugely pleased you liked it (and that it worked for you!) as it
> is certainly my favorite finish. When I need a go-to, bullet proof
> finish, that's my first choice.
> Never let me down yet, and I have put about 40 gallons on all manner
> of projects inside and out.
>
> Honestly, I don't know what it is.
>
Googling "Kwik Kleen" I find that there isn't an "it". They have a
"fast drying polyurethane" and a "Kwick Kat" precatalyised lacquer and
about 5 pages of other stuff just under "Finishes and Sealers".
> I went to my Dad's house a couple of months ago and looked at the
> front door he had me replace along with hardware, etc. He was an
> older fella then, and wanted a good finish on it, but nothing too
> exotic. That was about 8 years ago. It looks brand new!
>
> I might have to rustle around the HD and find a pic to post of that
> one as it was an unusual grain pattern that I set on fire. You would
> probably get a charge out of it.
>
> I just go through looking over your finished project and your most
> excellent plane. Great stuff.
>
> Robert
On 1/19/2011 1:17 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Jan 18, 11:01 am, Steve Turner<[email protected]>
>> Well Robert, this is where you come in. :-) I sprayed one single wet coat of
>> the satin "Kwick Kleen" conversion lacquer that you steered me towards.
> I am hugely pleased you liked it (and that it worked for you!) as it
> is certainly my favorite finish. When I need a go-to, bullet proof
> finish, that's my first choice.
> Never let me down yet, and I have put about 40 gallons on all manner
> of projects inside and out.
What's your feeling on how it would shoot with this? (and which tip):
http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2020047/18850/Earlex-Spray-Station-Pro-Professional-HVLP-Spraying-Station.aspx
I have one in the box that's never been opened and would like to try it
out on something non-critical, like that big POS cabinet you saw on top
of that rolling cart in my garage.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)
On Jan 19, 7:12=A0am, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
> What's your feeling on how it would shoot with this? (and which tip):
>
> http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2020047/18850/Earlex-Spray-Station-P...
>
> I have one in the box that's never been opened and would like to try it
> out on something non-critical, like that big POS cabinet you saw on top
> of that rolling cart in my garage.
I would think it would shoot just fine. I would use the 1.5 tip
(aircap) and turn up the air a bit. With cooler weather, remember to
thin more as the viscosity will be much greater now than in a couple
of months.
How many impellers does that have? If it has three or more, you will
be fine with just about any clear finish with a moderate amount of
fussing.
Remember that finishes that are shot through an HVLP system are NOT
"atomized" like the high pressure spray guns. Thin away on that
stuff to get what you need.
Ideal for spraying lacquers and clear finishes (for me) is 1.4mm. In
this (cool) weather though, your 1.5 will act like a 1.4. So when you
write down your recipes, remember to thin much less in the summer as
that 1.5 actually lets out a great deal more liquid than you would
think.
Looks like a nice unit. I hope post back with your results and
thoughts.
Robert
On Jan 19, 2:17=A0am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On Jan 18, 11:01=A0am, Steve Turner <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> > Well Robert, this is where you come in. =A0:-) =A0I sprayed one single =
wet coat of
> > the satin "Kwick Kleen" conversion lacquer that you steered me towards.
>
> Wow! =A0How cool is that? =A0You never know, right?
>
> > Actually, the can says "fast drying polyurethane", but it thins with la=
cquer
> > thinner, and it certainly looks, smells, and feels like a lacquer to me=
.
> > I LOVE the stuff! =A0It goes on like a dream, dries to the touch in abo=
ut 5
> > minutes, and looks gorgeous. =A0Thanks a million for the recommendation=
.
>
> I am hugely pleased you liked it (and that it worked for you!) as it
> is certainly my favorite finish. =A0When I need a go-to, bullet proof
> finish, that's my first choice.
> Never let me down yet, and I have put about 40 gallons on all manner
> of projects inside and out.
>
> Honestly, I don't know what it is.
>
> I went to my Dad's house a couple of months ago and looked at the
> front door he had me replace along with hardware, etc. =A0He was an
> older fella then, and wanted a good finish on it, but nothing too
> exotic. =A0That was about 8 years ago. =A0It looks brand new!
>
> I might have to rustle around the HD and find a pic to post of that
> one as it was an unusual grain pattern that I set on fire. =A0You would
> probably get a charge out of it.
>
> I just go through looking over your finished project and your most
> excellent plane. =A0Great stuff.
Please do post some pictures of that door. I have a nice mahogany
door that I recently installed that's waiting for the warmer weather
for the final finish (just shellac on it for now). That Kwick Kleen
stuff sounds perfect.
Since you are the one directly responsible for the beautiful finish on
Steve's drum (a stretch, but work with me here!), I'm thinking there
should be a free drum in it for you. Or at least a tambourine. ;)
R
On Jan 16, 4:52=A0pm, Steve Turner <[email protected]>
wrote:
> (Also posted to rec.music.makers.percussion)
>
> I recently finished up another drum I've been working on. =A0This one is =
a
> 20"x15" bass drum constructed from Black Walnut:
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/sets/72157625838936416/
>
> Here are some pictures of the various jigs I used to build it:
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/sets/72157625838041282/
>
> Now I just need to build the rest of the drums so I'll have a full set to=
play!
>
> --
> "Even if your wife is happy but you're unhappy, you're still happier
> than you'd be if you were happy and your wife was unhappy." - Red Green
> To reply, eat the taco.http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
I know, I know: "Tadaaaa!!!"
.
.
LOL....awesome!
On Jan 16, 1:52=A0pm, Steve Turner <[email protected]>
wrote:
> (Also posted to rec.music.makers.percussion)
>
> I recently finished up another drum I've been working on. =A0This one is =
a
> 20"x15" bass drum constructed from Black Walnut:
Very cool. I prefer a 24" bass but that is just fricking killer.
What shape did you come up with for the bearing edge? On Bass drums it
isn't so critical but on smaller shells with tighter skins it makes a
huge difference. I heard a story that Gretch at some time in their
history actually somehow lost the tooling they used to shape the
bearing edge and it took a few years to get it back where they wanted.
You should take a look at the bearing edge on a Craviotto maple snare
if you get a chance. I think the other people who do a good edge is
DW.
Have you ever thought about doing a kit from Keller shells and what is
your opinion of them if you are familiar? I would never venture to
build a set, that is a very ambitious project. You are to be
commended. I thought maybe some day I would do a set of keller shells
with some cool veener and custom finish, maybe sand burn darkened
edges, etc.
Steve - kinda late to the party, but I would certainly like to echo
the great remarks you have received so far.
All the handmade drums I have seen have been much less elegant
affairs, and rest assured I have never seen one coopered together from
walnut!
Very nicely done.
I must say though.... I am just about as impressed with the plane as I
am with the drum! Nicely done there, sir.
BTW, I have heard and read a mountain of information on finishes for
musical instruments, but never had occasion to finish one myself.
What did you use for the topcoat? Anything underneath it for grain
pop?
Robert
On Jan 16, 4:52=A0pm, Steve Turner <[email protected]>
wrote:
> (Also posted to rec.music.makers.percussion)
>
> I recently finished up another drum I've been working on. =A0This one is =
a
> 20"x15" bass drum constructed from Black Walnut:
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/sets/72157625838936416/
>
> Here are some pictures of the various jigs I used to build it:
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/sets/72157625838041282/
>
> Now I just need to build the rest of the drums so I'll have a full set to=
play!
That's a sweet looking drum, Steve. Nice job! Seems a shame to beat
on it though... ;)
R
On Sun, 16 Jan 2011 18:04:43 -0500, "Lee Michaels"
<leemichaels*nadaspam* at comcast dot net> wrote:
>
>
>"Steve Turner" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> (Also posted to rec.music.makers.percussion)
>>
>> I recently finished up another drum I've been working on. This one is a
>> 20"x15" bass drum constructed from Black Walnut:
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/sets/72157625838936416/
>>
>> Here are some pictures of the various jigs I used to build it:
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/sets/72157625838041282/
>>
>> Now I just need to build the rest of the drums so I'll have a full set to
>> play!
>>
>Looks very nice!
>
>I don't know anything about building drums. Is this the usual way of doing
>things? Or is there a much cheaper, simpler way of doing things?
I was going to ask him how many hours this one took and if he were
selling them/recouping his costs, etc. Nice project, Steve.
P.S: Gonna turn (or metalspin) your own cymbals, too?
--
Threee days before Tucson, Howard Dean explained that the
tea party movement is "the last gasp of the generation that
has trouble with diversity." Rising to the challenge of
lowering his reputation and the tone of public discourse,
Dean smeared tea partiers as racists: They oppose Obama's
agenda, Obama is African-American, ergo...
Let us hope that Dean is the last gasp of the generation
of liberals whose default position in any argument is to
indict opponents as racists. This McCarthyism of the left
-- devoid of intellectual content, unsupported by data --
is a mental tic, not an idea but a tactic for avoiding
engagement with ideas. It expresses limitless contempt for
the American people, who have reciprocated by reducing
liberalism to its current characteristics of electoral
weakness and bad sociology. --George Will 14 JAN 2011
Article titled "Tragedies often spark plenty of analysis"
On 1/16/11 3:52 PM, Steve Turner wrote:
> (Also posted to rec.music.makers.percussion)
>
> I recently finished up another drum I've been working on. This one is a
> 20"x15" bass drum constructed from Black Walnut:
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/sets/72157625838936416/
>
> Here are some pictures of the various jigs I used to build it:
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/sets/72157625838041282/
>
> Now I just need to build the rest of the drums so I'll have a full set
> to play!
>
Astonishing work, Steve. I hate you. :-)
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 1/16/2011 5:04 PM, Lee Michaels wrote:
>
>
> "Steve Turner" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> (Also posted to rec.music.makers.percussion)
>>
>> I recently finished up another drum I've been working on. This one is a
>> 20"x15" bass drum constructed from Black Walnut:
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/sets/72157625838936416/
>>
>> Here are some pictures of the various jigs I used to build it:
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/sets/72157625838041282/
>>
>> Now I just need to build the rest of the drums so I'll have a full set to play!
>>
> Looks very nice!
>
> I don't know anything about building drums. Is this the usual way of doing
> things? Or is there a much cheaper, simpler way of doing things?
No, the vast majority of modern drums are built using multiple plies of thin
veneer, laminated with heat and pressure in large cylindrical presses that are
far beyond the means and capabilities of the average woodworker. The level of
quality achieved by most modern manufacturers is actually quite impressive;
probably an order of magnitude better than the best quality baltic birch
plywood that you and I are used to seeing at our local hardwood supplier.
Shells built in this fashion can be ridiculously thin (less than 1/4") yet
still very strong and durable. Many manufacturers are also doing amazing
things with fancy finishes and exotic wood veneers, and I only wish I had the
facilities to build drums in this fashion. Still, there is also the air of
mass-produced "sameness" about such drums, and there is definitely still a
market for drums constructed from solid pieces of wood, and the "stave" method
I used is but one of a few. Other methods include:
Steam bending a solid piece of wood, typically using a scarf joint to bring the
two ends together into a cylinder. This method is one of the oldest, but is
typically only used to construct snare drums, which are relatively small in
diameter (13" or 14") and shallow (averaging about 6" deep).
A method probably familiar to most wood turners would be segmented shells,
which are probably best described by a picture:
http://www.snaredrumsonline.com/wp-content/uploads/maple-snare-drum-1550481605266287660.jpg
Some builders are even having success building shells from large logs,
hollowing out the center and carefully milling the inside and outside surfaces
until the shell reaches the desired thickness. The goal is to have a shell
that's a natural as possible, with no joints and no glue, supposedly yielding
the "holy grail" of sound quality. Personally, I think it's a lot of work with
very little (if any) payoff. After all, at the end of the day it's still just
a drum. :-)
--
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On 1/16/2011 4:07 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 1/16/11 3:52 PM, Steve Turner wrote:
>> (Also posted to rec.music.makers.percussion)
>>
>> I recently finished up another drum I've been working on. This one is a
>> 20"x15" bass drum constructed from Black Walnut:
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/sets/72157625838936416/
>>
>> Here are some pictures of the various jigs I used to build it:
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/sets/72157625838041282/
>>
>> Now I just need to build the rest of the drums so I'll have a full set
>> to play!
>>
>
> Astonishing work, Steve. I hate you. :-)
I love you too man!
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On 1/16/2011 4:11 PM, Sonny wrote:
> Very, very nice. I saw some of your other drum work, months ago, and
> liked them as well. I sent the links (then and now) to my brother,
> who plays and appreciates nice drums... but he ain't worth a poop for
> woodworking.
>
> Smart jigs, too. ^5
Thanks! Yeah, the jigs get the job done, but I've been pondering how to
construct my "second generation" jigs, complete with offsetting guide rollers
to keep the shells firmly in position, and with motors to spin the shells
(slowly) during milling so that I don't have to spin them by hand. :-)
--
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On 1/16/2011 6:25 PM, Steve wrote:
> On 2011-01-16 16:52:54 -0500, Steve Turner <[email protected]> said:
>
>> I recently finished up another drum I've been working on. This one is a
>> 20"x15" bass drum constructed from Black Walnut:
>
> That is gorgeous! As is your trim plane. And thanks for the jigging ideas. I'll
> never make a drum (probably), but I'll bet sooner or later I come up with some
> project that could use those ideas.
Yeah, the plane was actually quite fun to construct. I love using shoulder
planes, and I have some old wooden molding planes that I was able to use as
guides to constructing this one. It's not perfect, but it gets the job done,
which was really all I cared about. I actually searched around quite a bit for
some existing tool (most likely from a coopers arsenal) that might do the job,
but I came up empty so I just decided to build my own. I'm sure I had a big
stupid grin on my face when I saw how well it worked. :-)
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On 1/16/2011 9:14 PM, Dave Balderstone wrote:
> In article<[email protected]>, Steve Turner
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I recently finished up another drum I've been working on. This one is a
>> 20"x15" bass drum constructed from Black Walnut:
>
> Gorgeous work, Steve.
Thanks!
> What bit do you use to mill the inside?
Small horizontal crown molding bit:
http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/graphics/horizcrw.jpg
Actually though, I'd guess a simple 1/4" straight bit would do the job just as
well.
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On 1/16/2011 9:19 PM, Leon wrote:
> "Steve Turner"<[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> (Also posted to rec.music.makers.percussion)
>>
>> I recently finished up another drum I've been working on. This one is a
>> 20"x15" bass drum constructed from Black Walnut:
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/sets/72157625838936416/
>>
>> Here are some pictures of the various jigs I used to build it:
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/sets/72157625838041282/
>>
>> Now I just need to build the rest of the drums so I'll have a full set to
>> play!
>
>
> You are the master Steve!
Well I don't know about that, but I appreciate hearing it from somebody whose
work I greatly admire. Thanks Leon. :-)
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On 1/16/2011 9:20 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Jan 2011 18:04:43 -0500, "Lee Michaels"
> <leemichaels*nadaspam* at comcast dot net> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> "Steve Turner"<[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> (Also posted to rec.music.makers.percussion)
>>>
>>> I recently finished up another drum I've been working on. This one is a
>>> 20"x15" bass drum constructed from Black Walnut:
>>>
>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/sets/72157625838936416/
>>>
>>> Here are some pictures of the various jigs I used to build it:
>>>
>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/sets/72157625838041282/
>>>
>>> Now I just need to build the rest of the drums so I'll have a full set to
>>> play!
>>>
>> Looks very nice!
>>
>> I don't know anything about building drums. Is this the usual way of doing
>> things? Or is there a much cheaper, simpler way of doing things?
>
> I was going to ask him how many hours this one took and if he were
> selling them/recouping his costs, etc. Nice project, Steve.
Thanks! I didn't keep track of my hours, but I suspect I would have trouble
selling these drums for anything close to a decent profit unless I could find a
niche market among well-compensated hot-shot musicians, and those are few and
far between. I would also have to *significantly* automate my processes before
I could become competitive, and believe it or not there is a lot of competition
out there already. I'm really just doing this for my own amusement, and plus I
need a second set of drums. :-)
> P.S: Gonna turn (or metalspin) your own cymbals, too?
So many things to do, so little time! :-)
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On 1/16/2011 9:54 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "Steve Turner"wrote:
>
>> (Also posted to rec.music.makers.percussion)
>>
>> I recently finished up another drum I've been working on. This one
>> is a 20"x15" bass drum constructed from Black Walnut:
> <snip>
>
> -------------------------------
> IMPRESSIVE, young man, IMPRESSIVE.
>
> .
>
> Lew
Thanks Lew. Too bad the wood I had available to do this project wasn't
Honduras Mahogany instead of Black Walnut, but I'm happy with the way it turned
out. Maybe one of these days I'll run across an old retired Chris Craft that
wants to be reborn as a set of drums. :-)
--
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On 1/16/11 10:29 PM, RicodJour wrote:
> On Jan 16, 10:08 pm, Steve Turner<[email protected]>
> wrote:
>>
>> No, the vast majority of modern drums are built using multiple plies of thin
>> veneer, laminated with heat and pressure in large cylindrical presses that are
>> far beyond the means and capabilities of the average woodworker. The level of
>> quality achieved by most modern manufacturers is actually quite impressive;
>> probably an order of magnitude better than the best quality baltic birch
>> plywood that you and I are used to seeing at our local hardwood supplier.
>> Shells built in this fashion can be ridiculously thin (less than 1/4") yet
>> still very strong and durable. Many manufacturers are also doing amazing
>> things with fancy finishes and exotic wood veneers, and I only wish I had the
>> facilities to build drums in this fashion.
>
> I know exactly zero about drums, so take this with a shaker of salt
> (preferably with a few lemons and a bottle of tequila), and I have no
> idea about drum sizing, so this may be totally off the wall, but could
> you use a section of plastic sewer pipe, wrap veneer around it and
> vacuum bag the sucker?
>
> R
Drums are sized 1/8" under nominal size, ie: 14" drum is 13-7/8".
Most shells are 1/4"-3/8" So if you could find pipe the right size, sure.
It would probably be easier to build up a form with the same technique
as building a shell.
--
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"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
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On 1/16/2011 9:48 PM, Zz Yzx wrote:
>
>> I recently finished up another drum I've been working on. This one is a
>> 20"x15" bass drum constructed from Black Walnut:
>
> Nice work.
Thanks.
> I'm curious as t o whether the choice of wood matters; i.e. are there
> preferred "tonewoods" for drums as there are for guitars?
I think it does matter, but only up to a point. Drums shells have to be
reasonably thick to support the stress of the head under tension, and the
tensioning and mounting hardware that's mounted to the shell further reduces
the opportunity for it to resonate to a degree that significantly contributes
to the tone quality of the drum. However, a poorly constructed shell made of
soft, lifeless, and inferior wood (like Philippine "Mahogany") with no tonal
qualities of its own is going to be totally "dead" when you hold it up by one
finger and "thump" it. Such a shell is going to transfer its "deadness" to the
heads, and the drum is going to have very poor tone and reduced volume.
Conversely, any well-constructed shell built from a reasonably hard wood such
that the shell has its own clear tone and "sings" when you thump it is going to
be a good candidate for yielding a good drum. After you've reached that point,
the choice of wood might have *some* further effect, but (in my opinion) it's
going to be of minimal consequence and quite subjective. Other factors are
probably of more importance, such as the "bearing edges" (the point where the
head contacts the shell), and a good smooth reflective inner surface (which
could be a factor of closed pored vs. open pored woods). I'm also a fan of the
shell being as thin as reasonably possible (without compromising strength), not
necessarily because a thin shell is more "resonant" (as in a guitar), but
because it yields the largest amount of air volume in the internal cavity,
which in turn increases both the tuning range (think bottles filled with
varying amount of liquid) and the dynamic range (potential volume) of the drum.
--
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On 1/16/11 11:14 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "Steve Turner"wrote:
>
>> Thanks Lew. Too bad the wood I had available to do this project
>> wasn't Honduras Mahogany instead of Black Walnut, but I'm happy with
>> the way it turned out. Maybe one of these days I'll run across an
>> old retired Chris Craft that wants to be reborn as a set of drums.
>> :-)
> -------------------------------
> You gotta know these people.
>
> http://www.aitwood.com/
>
> Good folks.
>
> Lew
>
>
Plywood shells are ok, but stave is the way to go, like Steve's shell.
They resonate more "as one." The cross ply of plywood shells and all
that glue deadens the shell a bit. With solid shells you hear much more
of the sonic characteristics of the wood, because it can resonate more.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
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On 1/16/11 9:23 PM, Steve Turner wrote:
BTY, when I made my little oak shell, I glued it to the backing plate to
mount on the lathe. But I put brown paper bag between the plate (mdf)
and shell, so it would release easier. And if it tore, it would
certainly tear the mdf and not the shell. I found that it took very
little glue to hold it sufficiently. Since you have plates on both
sides of the shell, I think it would take even less.
Did you consider temporary gluing, or do you think the screw technique
was easier?
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
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On 01/17/2011 12:30 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 1/16/11 9:23 PM, Steve Turner wrote:
>
> BTY, when I made my little oak shell, I glued it to the backing plate to
> mount on the lathe. But I put brown paper bag between the plate (mdf)
> and shell, so it would release easier. And if it tore, it would
> certainly tear the mdf and not the shell. I found that it took very
> little glue to hold it sufficiently. Since you have plates on both
> sides of the shell, I think it would take even less.
>
> Did you consider temporary gluing, or do you think the screw technique
> was easier?
I think temporary gluing would probably work just fine. I didn't consider it because it
didn't occur to me. :-)
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On 01/16/2011 09:58 PM, SonomaProducts.com wrote:
> On Jan 16, 1:52 pm, Steve Turner<[email protected]>
> wrote:
>> (Also posted to rec.music.makers.percussion)
>>
>> I recently finished up another drum I've been working on. This one is a
>> 20"x15" bass drum constructed from Black Walnut:
>
> Very cool. I prefer a 24" bass but that is just fricking killer.
Thanks. I've never owned a 24" kick and I haven't played them very many times, but when I
did it just wasn't "working" for me. Plus, they are just so TALL, which forces the rack
toms to be mounted higher than I find comfortable, especially if the toms have deep shells.
> What shape did you come up with for the bearing edge? On Bass drums it
> isn't so critical but on smaller shells with tighter skins it makes a
> huge difference. I heard a story that Gretch at some time in their
> history actually somehow lost the tooling they used to shape the
> bearing edge and it took a few years to get it back where they wanted.
Never heard that story. I own a nice set of mid-80's Gretsch drums, and the bearing edges
are pretty straightforward; an ever-so-slight round-over on the outer edge (1/16" radius
maybe? 1/8" max) leading into a simple 30-degree chamfer towards the inner surface. Most
other companies use a 45-degree chamfer (ever try finding a 60-degree chamfer bit to produce
that 30-degree angle? Not too many of them out there). Mine are very similar, but the
chamfer is even more shallow; I think I used a 25-degree raised panel bit with an oversize
bearing.
> You should take a look at the bearing edge on a Craviotto maple snare
> if you get a chance. I think the other people who do a good edge is
> DW.
I don't think I've ever seen a Craviotto around these parts.
> Have you ever thought about doing a kit from Keller shells and what is
> your opinion of them if you are familiar? I would never venture to
> build a set, that is a very ambitious project. You are to be
> commended. I thought maybe some day I would do a set of keller shells
> with some cool veener and custom finish, maybe sand burn darkened
> edges, etc.
Keller makes very nice shells and they've been doing it for decades. They made shells for
Rogers back in the sixties and/or seventies, and they're now making shells for Gretsch as
well. I would certainly consider using their products if I didn't want to build my own.
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On 01/17/2011 08:59 AM, Swingman wrote:
> On 1/16/2011 3:52 PM, Steve Turner wrote:
>> (Also posted to rec.music.makers.percussion)
>>
>> I recently finished up another drum I've been working on. This one is a
>> 20"x15" bass drum constructed from Black Walnut:
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/sets/72157625838936416/
>>
>> Here are some pictures of the various jigs I used to build it:
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/sets/72157625838041282/
>>
>> Now I just need to build the rest of the drums so I'll have a full set
>> to play!
>
> Killer craftsmanship! ... what impresses me most of all are the jigs. I get more fun and
> satisfaction coming up with, and making, jig that work than I do the actual piece and it
> appears you may share the same sentiment.
>
> Stellar execution on all counts, Steve.
Thanks Karl! Yes, I do get a big kick out of making my own jigs and tools. I spent a
couple of days at least pondering the design and construction of that "coopering" plane, and
I got stuck for a while thinking I was going to have to procure an old derelict wooden
rebate plane and steal its cutter when I got the epiphany to cannibalize an extra Stanley #3
cutter I had lying around. It took a good day or more to build the plane and get it tuned
to perfection, then it probably took me all of five minutes make the necessary cuts on the
drum. It was an exciting moment, but after that it was kind of a let-down thinking I may
never have another need for that wonderful new plane! :-)
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On 1/17/11 12:36 PM, Steve Turner wrote:
> On 01/17/2011 12:30 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 1/16/11 9:23 PM, Steve Turner wrote:
>>
>> BTY, when I made my little oak shell, I glued it to the backing plate to
>> mount on the lathe. But I put brown paper bag between the plate (mdf)
>> and shell, so it would release easier. And if it tore, it would
>> certainly tear the mdf and not the shell. I found that it took very
>> little glue to hold it sufficiently. Since you have plates on both
>> sides of the shell, I think it would take even less.
>>
>> Did you consider temporary gluing, or do you think the screw technique
>> was easier?
>
> I think temporary gluing would probably work just fine. I didn't
> consider it because it didn't occur to me. :-)
>
It only occurred to me because I had heard of it from turners..... wait.
:-)
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--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
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On 1/18/11 10:49 AM, RicodJour wrote:
> Yeah, I can see that is an issue. Leaving 'contraction space' so the
> veneer meeting edges would just touch as the vaccum was applied would
> also be difficult. What about laying up the veneers inside the sewer
> pipe and using a pneumatic bladder to press the veneer against the
> pipe?
>
> R
I was contracted to veneer a bass drum hoop in bubinga and used a
bicycle inner-tube as a bladder clamp for the inside, which worked
perfectly.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
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On 1/18/2011 10:42 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> Steve - kinda late to the party, but I would certainly like to echo
> the great remarks you have received so far.
>
> All the handmade drums I have seen have been much less elegant
> affairs, and rest assured I have never seen one coopered together from
> walnut!
>
> Very nicely done.
>
> I must say though.... I am just about as impressed with the plane as I
> am with the drum! Nicely done there, sir.
Thanks! I was certainly pleased with it myself.
> BTW, I have heard and read a mountain of information on finishes for
> musical instruments, but never had occasion to finish one myself.
> What did you use for the topcoat? Anything underneath it for grain
> pop?
>
> Robert
Well Robert, this is where you come in. :-) I sprayed one single wet coat of
the satin "Kwick Kleen" conversion lacquer that you steered me towards.
Actually, the can says "fast drying polyurethane", but it thins with lacquer
thinner, and it certainly looks, smells, and feels like a lacquer to me.
I LOVE the stuff! It goes on like a dream, dries to the touch in about 5
minutes, and looks gorgeous. Thanks a million for the recommendation.
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On 01/19/2011 08:40 AM, RicodJour wrote:
> On Jan 19, 2:17 am, "[email protected]"<[email protected]>
> wrote:
>> On Jan 18, 11:01 am, Steve Turner<[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Well Robert, this is where you come in. :-) I sprayed one single wet coat of
>>> the satin "Kwick Kleen" conversion lacquer that you steered me towards.
>>
>> Wow! How cool is that? You never know, right?
>>
>>> Actually, the can says "fast drying polyurethane", but it thins with lacquer
>>> thinner, and it certainly looks, smells, and feels like a lacquer to me.
>>> I LOVE the stuff! It goes on like a dream, dries to the touch in about 5
>>> minutes, and looks gorgeous. Thanks a million for the recommendation.
>>
>> I am hugely pleased you liked it (and that it worked for you!) as it
>> is certainly my favorite finish. When I need a go-to, bullet proof
>> finish, that's my first choice.
>> Never let me down yet, and I have put about 40 gallons on all manner
>> of projects inside and out.
>>
>> Honestly, I don't know what it is.
>>
>> I went to my Dad's house a couple of months ago and looked at the
>> front door he had me replace along with hardware, etc. He was an
>> older fella then, and wanted a good finish on it, but nothing too
>> exotic. That was about 8 years ago. It looks brand new!
>>
>> I might have to rustle around the HD and find a pic to post of that
>> one as it was an unusual grain pattern that I set on fire. You would
>> probably get a charge out of it.
>>
>> I just go through looking over your finished project and your most
>> excellent plane. Great stuff.
>
> Please do post some pictures of that door. I have a nice mahogany
> door that I recently installed that's waiting for the warmer weather
> for the final finish (just shellac on it for now). That Kwick Kleen
> stuff sounds perfect.
>
> Since you are the one directly responsible for the beautiful finish on
> Steve's drum (a stretch, but work with me here!), I'm thinking there
> should be a free drum in it for you. Or at least a tambourine. ;)
I've got an extra cowbell. :-)
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On 1/19/11 8:03 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
>
> Googling "Kwik Kleen" I find that there isn't an "it". They have a
> "fast drying polyurethane" and a "Kwick Kat" precatalyised lacquer and
> about 5 pages of other stuff just under "Finishes and Sealers".
>
Me, too. Which can and where can I buy it?
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--
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On 01/19/2011 11:44 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 1/19/11 8:03 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>
>> Googling "Kwik Kleen" I find that there isn't an "it". They have a
>> "fast drying polyurethane" and a "Kwick Kat" precatalyised lacquer and
>> about 5 pages of other stuff just under "Finishes and Sealers".
>>
>
> Me, too. Which can and where can I buy it?
This is the exact stuff I used (per Robert's recommendation):
http://kwickkleen.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=108&products_id=1402
I ordered it straight from Kwick Kleen, and received excellent service.
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On 1/19/2011 8:12 AM, Swingman wrote:
> http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2020047/18850/Earlex-Spray-Station-Pro-Professional-HVLP-Spraying-Station.aspx
>
>
> I have one in the box that's never been opened and would like to try it
> out on something non-critical, like that big POS cabinet you saw on top
> of that rolling cart in my garage.
I bought the 3900 Graco(Earlex) last fall and I got a chance to use
it shooting latex on some deck chairs. I was amazed at how easy it
was to use and to clean up. I'm heading toward lacquer this spring
and can't wait....
On Sun, 16 Jan 2011 21:57:16 -0600, Steve Turner
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On 1/16/2011 9:20 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Sun, 16 Jan 2011 18:04:43 -0500, "Lee Michaels"
>> <leemichaels*nadaspam* at comcast dot net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Steve Turner"<[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>> (Also posted to rec.music.makers.percussion)
>>>>
>>>> I recently finished up another drum I've been working on. This one is a
>>>> 20"x15" bass drum constructed from Black Walnut:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/sets/72157625838936416/
>>>>
>>>> Here are some pictures of the various jigs I used to build it:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/sets/72157625838041282/
>>>>
>>>> Now I just need to build the rest of the drums so I'll have a full set to
>>>> play!
>>>>
>>> Looks very nice!
>>>
>>> I don't know anything about building drums. Is this the usual way of doing
>>> things? Or is there a much cheaper, simpler way of doing things?
>>
>> I was going to ask him how many hours this one took and if he were
>> selling them/recouping his costs, etc. Nice project, Steve.
>
>Thanks! I didn't keep track of my hours, but I suspect I would have trouble
>selling these drums for anything close to a decent profit unless I could find a
>niche market among well-compensated hot-shot musicians, and those are few and
>far between. I would also have to *significantly* automate my processes before
>I could become competitive, and believe it or not there is a lot of competition
>out there already. I'm really just doing this for my own amusement, and plus I
>need a second set of drums. :-)
Egad!
>> P.S: Gonna turn (or metalspin) your own cymbals, too?
>
>So many things to do, so little time! :-)
Talk to the importers of Tibetan items...
Om mani padme hum.
--
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-- Ralph Waldo Emerson
"Steve Turner" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> (Also posted to rec.music.makers.percussion)
>
> I recently finished up another drum I've been working on. This one is a
> 20"x15" bass drum constructed from Black Walnut:
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/sets/72157625838936416/
>
> Here are some pictures of the various jigs I used to build it:
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/sets/72157625838041282/
>
> Now I just need to build the rest of the drums so I'll have a full set to
> play!
You are the master Steve!
On 1/16/2011 3:52 PM, Steve Turner wrote:
> (Also posted to rec.music.makers.percussion)
>
> I recently finished up another drum I've been working on. This one is a
> 20"x15" bass drum constructed from Black Walnut:
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/sets/72157625838936416/
>
> Here are some pictures of the various jigs I used to build it:
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/sets/72157625838041282/
>
> Now I just need to build the rest of the drums so I'll have a full set
> to play!
Killer craftsmanship! ... what impresses me most of all are the jigs. I
get more fun and satisfaction coming up with, and making, jig that work
than I do the actual piece and it appears you may share the same sentiment.
Stellar execution on all counts, Steve.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)