Barbara Bailey wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 06:12:42 -0500, Bill Rider <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> Barbara Bailey wrote:
>>>>> I think you're seriously underestimating the size of the cylinders.
>>>>> They're much closer to twice as tall as they are in diameter than they
>>>>> are to the same height as diameter.
>>>> I was looking at RH's pictures. With an overall height of 43", I
>>>> calculated the diameter of the gage at 5.5". I used that to calculate
>>>> the size of the cylinders.
>>> But is his 43" to the top of the lever as it stands at an angle, or if
>>> it were exactly upright? The Columbus Faucet #20 pump listed for
>>> sale is 49" tall at full upright.
>> I assumed RH measured 43" as it stands. With the lever vertical, it
>> would be about 47".
>>
>> It's easy to see the stroke. It's the exposed piston rod with the lever
>> tipped the other way.
>
> Ah, and the other source of the confusion appears. Your original
> statement was that the *cylinder* looked like it was about 3" in
> height. You knew that you were referring to the stroke length -- I
> thought you were talking about the height of the cylinder itself.
Originally, I was talking about RH's cylinders, excluding the top and
bottom caps. After I looked at yours it dawned on me that I could
measure the piston rods.
>> I've remeasured RH's. It looks a bore of 2.8" and a stroke of 3" for 36
>> cubic inches per cycle.
>>
>> The one on Ebay appears to have a bore of 3" and a stroke of 3.5" for 50
>> cubic inches per cycle.
>>
>> The Model 20 appears to have a bore of 3" and a stroke of 4" for 56
>> cubic inches per cycle.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>>> If you look at the two links, the first one says that the base is 5"
>>>>> wide, and it looks like the cylinder is about 3" of that. The one to
>>>>> the eBay sale gives a total height of the mechanism of 14", and the
>>>>> cylinders appear to be between 5" and 6" in height -- they're
>>>>> slightly less than half the overall height. That changes the volume to
>>>>> somewhere much closer to 30 to 35 cubic inches for each cylinder, and
>>>>> 70 or more for both. As it's a walking-beam mechanism, the airflow is
>>>>> continuous.
>> When I expand the image so the device is 14.5 cm tall,
>
> The pump itself without the lever? or the whole thing -- base to top
> of handle?
It's the one from Ebay (thanks for the link). It has no handle and says
14.5". It would be more accurate to expand it to fill my screen but
more foolproof to lat a cm = an inch.
>
>> the cylinders are
>> 4.7 cm tall and the visible piston rod, which is the stroke, is 3.5 cm.
>> That would mean 3.5".
>
>
>
>>>>> Also, "shallow water diving" is 15 meters or less; so 50 feet or less
>>>>> (2.5 atmospheres rather than 4;) that would require 900 cu. inches of
>>>>> air or around 12 strokes a minute.
>>>>>
>>>> RH's gage goes to 70.
>>> The gauge was supplied by another company. (The speedometer on my car
>>> goes to 100, but the car doesn't.) So the fact that the gauge goes to
>>> 70 doesn't mean that anyone expected the pump to do so.
>> OK, 2.5 atmospheres is fine with me. That would be about 50 feet on the
>> gage, as you say.
>>
>>>> I figured 34 at the surface and 68 on the gage
>>>> would be 3 atmospheres.
>>>> http://www.divingheritage.com/leverpumps.htm
>>>> This page recommends 1.5 cubic feet per minute for each atmosphere.
>>>>
>>>> At 2.5 atmospheres that would be 4320 cubic inches, approximately 5
>>>> times your calculation.
>>> OK, I bobbled the math there. But even taking that into account,
>>> that's 60 strokes a minute, not 200+
>> I calculate the capacity of the largest pump to be 56 cubic inches per
>> cycle, which isn't much less than your estimate. I don't see why you
>> say a diver would need only 900 cubic inches per minute at 2.5
>> atmospheres. Isn't 2.5 cubic feet 4320 cubic inches?
>
> That was the math bobble. I mis-converted average lung capacity in mL
> into cu.in./minute, without accounting for breaths/minute.
>> For the three pumps, I calculate
>> 120
>> 86
>> 77
>> cycles per minute. The first one, 120, would be 4 strokes (2 each way)
>> per second. How long could anyone keep that up? (Not having tried, I
>> don't know.)
>
> No clue here either, beyond a statement on on of those webpages
> mentioned above, that the pump crew for one hard-helmet shallow diver
> could be as many as 8 men.
I can see why. The estimates I calculated were for 1 cubic foot a
minute. For the 1.5 that's recommended these days, the pumps would have
been worked 50% faster.
No wonder they went to two-man pumps. Maybe I can analyze one. Two men
using four arms on two levers could apply more force. If the bore
were 40% bigger and the stroke twice as long, they could go 75% slower.
>>
>>>> If the diver could tolerate more CO2 or he
>>>> exhaled toward the vent, perhaps his requirement would be much lower
>>>> than I read.
The gage on RH's pump was made for the expansion tank in a heating
system. The red hand was set for normal conditions. On a diver's pump
I think it was a depth redline. That would mean the safe limit was 15
feet (for the diver's head).
Suppose a man could pump 60 cycles (120 strokes) a minute. If the pump
put its whole displacement into the supply line, that would be 1.25
cubic feet per minute at the surface and 0.87 cubic feet entering the
helmet 15 feet down. That's 58% of what's recommended.
I think it's feasible. The problem is not lacking oxygen but reacting
to CO2. In grade school I'd be so cold at night that I'd sleep curled
up with the sheet and blankets over my head. The elevated CO2 didn't
bother me because I was used to it.
To supply a diver with 0.87 cubic feet a minute with 120 strokes a
minute, the Ebay pump would have been good for a helmet 35 feet down.
The Cleveland pump you found would have been good to 42 feet. It would
depend on the diver's tolerance for CO2, his muscle mass, his exertion,
and perhaps the design of his helmet.
1142. Variable diameter pulley. Moving the handle to
the right moves the left half sheave closer to the right one
and increases the effective diameter of the pulley. It's
used to vary the speed of belt driven equipment.
Art
"R.H." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Set number 206 has just been posted:
>
> http://puzzlephotos.blogspot.com/
>
>
> Rob
On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 20:44:04 -0500, Bill Rider <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Barbara Bailey wrote:
>> On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 18:35:36 -0500, Bill Rider <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Barbara Bailey wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 09:53:53 -0600, [email protected]
>>>> (Matthew T. Russotto) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In article <[email protected]>,
>>>>> R.H. <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>> Set number 206 has just been posted:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://puzzlephotos.blogspot.com/
>>>>> 1147: It's a pump, but the "altitude" marking gauge is interesting.
>>>>> Perhaps it is intended as part of some equipment for simulating lower
>>>>> pressures up to 70,000 feet.
>>>> It's a "shallow water dive pump" for pumping air to an old-style
>>>> hard-helmet diver.
>>>>
>>>> <http://www.nauticalantiquesandgifts.com/catalog/item/2573712/3413297.htm>
>>>> The one on the linked webpage is also made by The Cleveland Faucet Co.
>>>>
>>>> This one shows the hose fitting that the pressure gauge is attached
>>>> to:
>>>> <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270140588705>
>>>>
>>> I wonder how it pumped the necessary volume.
>>>
>>> The diameter of each cylinder looks like 2.5" and the height 3". The
>>> whole inside wouldn't be available for air, so a stroke would be less
>>> than 15 cubic inches. A cycle of the lever would be less than 30 cubic
>>> inches.
>>>
>>> At 68 feet, a helmeted diver would require a pump to suck in 4.5 cubic
>>> feet of air per minute. That would be more than 259 cycles of the pump
>>> lever per minute.
>>>
>>> I should stay away from math. It gets me all mixed up!
>>
>> I think you're seriously underestimating the size of the cylinders.
>> They're much closer to twice as tall as they are in diameter than they
>> are to the same height as diameter.
>
>I was looking at RH's pictures. With an overall height of 43", I
>calculated the diameter of the gage at 5.5". I used that to calculate
>the size of the cylinders.
But is his 43" to the top of the lever as it stands at an angle, or if
it were exactly upright? The Columbus Faucet #20 pump listed for
sale is 49" tall at full upright.
>> If you look at the two links, the first one says that the base is 5"
>> wide, and it looks like the cylinder is about 3" of that. The one to
>> the eBay sale gives a total height of the mechanism of 14", and the
>> cylinders appear to be between 5" and 6" in height -- they're
>> slightly less than half the overall height. That changes the volume to
>> somewhere much closer to 30 to 35 cubic inches for each cylinder, and
>> 70 or more for both. As it's a walking-beam mechanism, the airflow is
>> continuous.
>>
>> Also, "shallow water diving" is 15 meters or less; so 50 feet or less
>> (2.5 atmospheres rather than 4;) that would require 900 cu. inches of
>> air or around 12 strokes a minute.
>>
>RH's gage goes to 70.
The gauge was supplied by another company. (The speedometer on my car
goes to 100, but the car doesn't.) So the fact that the gauge goes to
70 doesn't mean that anyone expected the pump to do so.
>I figured 34 at the surface and 68 on the gage
>would be 3 atmospheres.
>http://www.divingheritage.com/leverpumps.htm
>This page recommends 1.5 cubic feet per minute for each atmosphere.
>
>At 2.5 atmospheres that would be 4320 cubic inches, approximately 5
>times your calculation.
OK, I bobbled the math there. But even taking that into account,
that's 60 strokes a minute, not 200+
>If the diver could tolerate more CO2 or he
>exhaled toward the vent, perhaps his requirement would be much lower
>than I read.
OK, I was using different base numbers. This page
<http://www.mtsu.edu/~psyskip/physics.htm>, in the bottom section: How
long will my air last? was using a base number of 1 cu.ft/minute on
the surface and included this statement: "By the way most new divers
do breathe about 1 cubic feet per minute."
> Well, when he gives us the answer, and tells which number he
> photoshopped off the yoke, I bet one of the dive pages that we were
> both looking at will be able to provide the specs for a Cleveland
> Faucet #Whatever dual cylinder air pump. <g>
I wish I could tell you more about the pump, the only thing that I
photoshopped was the auction tag, so I don't have any further info on this
device. If I find out any more about it I'll let everyone know.
Rob
"Bill Rider" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:lxq%[email protected]...
> R.H. wrote:
>> Just posted the answer page, thanks to everyone who participated this
>> week:
>>
>>
>> http://pzphotosans206-x8.blogspot.com/
>>
>>
>> Rob
> I wonder if 1146 could have been a peak flow recorder. Suppose you want a
> record of peak rainfall. You smear chalk along the spiral. You set the
> cup under shelter and make sure it's level. You put in a tube that
> carries water collected from a surface of a certain size. The end of the
> tube should be near the bottom of the cup to avoid splashing.
>
> As the water rises, it will flow out the holes along the spiral, washing
> away the chalk on its way down. When people ask the scientist if it
> rained cats and dogs last night, he checks the cup to see how much chalk
> was washed away.
>
> A higher level would mean more holes as well as more pressure, so maybe it
> would measure the log of the flow. To be precise, the scientist would have
> to know the temperature of the water because that would determine
> viscosity.
Sounds reasonable, I'll see what I can find on that.
Rob
"Steve R." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:yFu%i.3994$fD.1094@pd7urf3no...
>
> "R.H." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Just posted the answer page, thanks to everyone who participated this
>> week:
>>
>>
>> http://pzphotosans206-x8.blogspot.com/
>>
>>
>> Rob
>
> 1142 Fishing boat winch? On the west coast of Canada we call them a Gurdy!
> As a rule they are ganged with four or more on a shaft. They are used on
> Salmon trollers, more commonly known as a West Coast Troller. One of my
> friends is part owner of Smith Brothers Foundry, and Machine shop which
> makes them.
>
>
> Steve R.
The person who sent me the photo just referred to it as a winch, maybe it
goes by different names depending on what region you're in, I went ahead and
included some of your terminology on the answer page.
Thanks,
Rob
Barbara Bailey wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 09:53:53 -0600, [email protected]
> (Matthew T. Russotto) wrote:
>
>> In article <[email protected]>,
>> R.H. <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Set number 206 has just been posted:
>>>
>>> http://puzzlephotos.blogspot.com/
>
>> 1147: It's a pump, but the "altitude" marking gauge is interesting.
>> Perhaps it is intended as part of some equipment for simulating lower
>> pressures up to 70,000 feet.
>
> It's a "shallow water dive pump" for pumping air to an old-style
> hard-helmet diver.
>
> <http://www.nauticalantiquesandgifts.com/catalog/item/2573712/3413297.htm>
> The one on the linked webpage is also made by The Cleveland Faucet Co.
>
> This one shows the hose fitting that the pressure gauge is attached
> to:
> <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270140588705>
>
I wonder how it pumped the necessary volume.
The diameter of each cylinder looks like 2.5" and the height 3". The
whole inside wouldn't be available for air, so a stroke would be less
than 15 cubic inches. A cycle of the lever would be less than 30 cubic
inches.
At 68 feet, a helmeted diver would require a pump to suck in 4.5 cubic
feet of air per minute. That would be more than 259 cycles of the pump
lever per minute.
I should stay away from math. It gets me all mixed up!
Barbara Bailey wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 18:35:36 -0500, Bill Rider <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> Barbara Bailey wrote:
>>> On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 09:53:53 -0600, [email protected]
>>> (Matthew T. Russotto) wrote:
>>>
>>>> In article <[email protected]>,
>>>> R.H. <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> Set number 206 has just been posted:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://puzzlephotos.blogspot.com/
>>>> 1147: It's a pump, but the "altitude" marking gauge is interesting.
>>>> Perhaps it is intended as part of some equipment for simulating lower
>>>> pressures up to 70,000 feet.
>>> It's a "shallow water dive pump" for pumping air to an old-style
>>> hard-helmet diver.
>>>
>>> <http://www.nauticalantiquesandgifts.com/catalog/item/2573712/3413297.htm>
>>> The one on the linked webpage is also made by The Cleveland Faucet Co.
>>>
>>> This one shows the hose fitting that the pressure gauge is attached
>>> to:
>>> <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270140588705>
>>>
>> I wonder how it pumped the necessary volume.
>>
>> The diameter of each cylinder looks like 2.5" and the height 3". The
>> whole inside wouldn't be available for air, so a stroke would be less
>> than 15 cubic inches. A cycle of the lever would be less than 30 cubic
>> inches.
>>
>> At 68 feet, a helmeted diver would require a pump to suck in 4.5 cubic
>> feet of air per minute. That would be more than 259 cycles of the pump
>> lever per minute.
>>
>> I should stay away from math. It gets me all mixed up!
>
> I think you're seriously underestimating the size of the cylinders.
> They're much closer to twice as tall as they are in diameter than they
> are to the same height as diameter.
I was looking at RH's pictures. With an overall height of 43", I
calculated the diameter of the gage at 5.5". I used that to calculate
the size of the cylinders.
>
> If you look at the two links, the first one says that the base is 5"
> wide, and it looks like the cylinder is about 3" of that. The one to
> the eBay sale gives a total height of the mechanism of 14", and the
> cylinders appear to be between 5" and 6" in height -- they're
> slightly less than half the overall height. That changes the volume to
> somewhere much closer to 30 to 35 cubic inches for each cylinder, and
> 70 or more for both. As it's a walking-beam mechanism, the airflow is
> continuous.
>
> Also, "shallow water diving" is 15 meters or less; so 50 feet or less
> (2.5 atmospheres rather than 4;) that would require 900 cu. inches of
> air or around 12 strokes a minute.
>
RH's gage goes to 70. I figured 34 at the surface and 68 on the gage
would be 3 atmospheres.
http://www.divingheritage.com/leverpumps.htm
This page recommends 1.5 cubic feet per minute for each atmosphere.
At 2.5 atmospheres that would be 4320 cubic inches, approximately 5
times your calculation. If the diver could tolerate more CO2 or he
exhaled toward the vent, perhaps his requirement would be much lower
than I read.
"R.H." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Set number 206 has just been posted:
>
> http://puzzlephotos.blogspot.com/
>
>
> Rob
1142 looks like a commercial fishing Gurdy.
As a mildly interesting kinematic comment: The horizontal distance from the
pivots at the top of the piston rods to the center pivot varies (as the
cosine of the handle angle). To make the mechanism work, the cylinders have
to be pivoted about a horizontal axis at their bottoms. Hence the flexible
tube connecting them.
"Barbara Bailey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 09:53:53 -0600, [email protected]
> (Matthew T. Russotto) wrote:
>
>>In article <[email protected]>,
>>R.H. <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>Set number 206 has just been posted:
>>>
>>>http://puzzlephotos.blogspot.com/
>
>>1147: It's a pump, but the "altitude" marking gauge is interesting.
>>Perhaps it is intended as part of some equipment for simulating lower
>>pressures up to 70,000 feet.
>
> It's a "shallow water dive pump" for pumping air to an old-style
> hard-helmet diver.
>
> <http://www.nauticalantiquesandgifts.com/catalog/item/2573712/3413297.htm>
> The one on the linked webpage is also made by The Cleveland Faucet Co.
>
> This one shows the hose fitting that the pressure gauge is attached
> to:
> <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270140588705>
>
Matthew T. Russotto wrote:
>
> 1147: It's a pump, but the "altitude" marking gauge is interesting.
> Perhaps it is intended as part of some equipment for simulating lower
> pressures up to 70,000 feet.
>
>
An altitude gage went on the expansion tank of a heating system. It
read water pressure in feet. You would remove the glass and set the red
hand to normal pressure.
I think the Cleveland Faucet Company sold this pump for plumbers to find
seepage with air pressure. The gage would tell if he was losing air,
and soapy water could show where it was escaping.
"R.H." <[email protected]> wrote in news:473c0be7$0$28798
[email protected]:
> Set number 206 has just been posted:
>
1142 is a variable-speed pullry drive.
Barbara Bailey wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 20:44:04 -0500, Bill Rider <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> Barbara Bailey wrote:
>>> On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 18:35:36 -0500, Bill Rider <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Barbara Bailey wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 09:53:53 -0600, [email protected]
>>>>> (Matthew T. Russotto) wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In article <[email protected]>,
>>>>>> R.H. <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>> Set number 206 has just been posted:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://puzzlephotos.blogspot.com/
>>>>>> 1147: It's a pump, but the "altitude" marking gauge is interesting.
>>>>>> Perhaps it is intended as part of some equipment for simulating lower
>>>>>> pressures up to 70,000 feet.
>>>>> It's a "shallow water dive pump" for pumping air to an old-style
>>>>> hard-helmet diver.
>>>>>
>>>>> <http://www.nauticalantiquesandgifts.com/catalog/item/2573712/3413297.htm>
>>>>> The one on the linked webpage is also made by The Cleveland Faucet Co.
>>>>>
>>>>> This one shows the hose fitting that the pressure gauge is attached
>>>>> to:
>>>>> <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270140588705>
>>>>>
>>>> I wonder how it pumped the necessary volume.
>>>>
>>>> The diameter of each cylinder looks like 2.5" and the height 3". The
>>>> whole inside wouldn't be available for air, so a stroke would be less
>>>> than 15 cubic inches. A cycle of the lever would be less than 30 cubic
>>>> inches.
>>>>
>>>> At 68 feet, a helmeted diver would require a pump to suck in 4.5 cubic
>>>> feet of air per minute. That would be more than 259 cycles of the pump
>>>> lever per minute.
>>>>
>>>> I should stay away from math. It gets me all mixed up!
>>> I think you're seriously underestimating the size of the cylinders.
>>> They're much closer to twice as tall as they are in diameter than they
>>> are to the same height as diameter.
>> I was looking at RH's pictures. With an overall height of 43", I
>> calculated the diameter of the gage at 5.5". I used that to calculate
>> the size of the cylinders.
>
> But is his 43" to the top of the lever as it stands at an angle, or if
> it were exactly upright? The Columbus Faucet #20 pump listed for
> sale is 49" tall at full upright.
I assumed RH measured 43" as it stands. With the lever vertical, it
would be about 47".
It's easy to see the stroke. It's the exposed piston rod with the lever
tipped the other way.
I've remeasured RH's. It looks a bore of 2.8" and a stroke of 3" for 36
cubic inches per cycle.
The one on Ebay appears to have a bore of 3" and a stroke of 3.5" for 50
cubic inches per cycle.
The Model 20 appears to have a bore of 3" and a stroke of 4" for 56
cubic inches per cycle.
>
>
>>> If you look at the two links, the first one says that the base is 5"
>>> wide, and it looks like the cylinder is about 3" of that. The one to
>>> the eBay sale gives a total height of the mechanism of 14", and the
>>> cylinders appear to be between 5" and 6" in height -- they're
>>> slightly less than half the overall height. That changes the volume to
>>> somewhere much closer to 30 to 35 cubic inches for each cylinder, and
>>> 70 or more for both. As it's a walking-beam mechanism, the airflow is
>>> continuous.
When I expand the image so the device is 14.5 cm tall, the cylinders are
4.7 cm tall and the visible piston rod, which is the stroke, is 3.5 cm.
That would mean 3.5".
>>>
>>> Also, "shallow water diving" is 15 meters or less; so 50 feet or less
>>> (2.5 atmospheres rather than 4;) that would require 900 cu. inches of
>>> air or around 12 strokes a minute.
>>>
>> RH's gage goes to 70.
>
> The gauge was supplied by another company. (The speedometer on my car
> goes to 100, but the car doesn't.) So the fact that the gauge goes to
> 70 doesn't mean that anyone expected the pump to do so.
OK, 2.5 atmospheres is fine with me. That would be about 50 feet on the
gage, as you say.
>
>> I figured 34 at the surface and 68 on the gage
>> would be 3 atmospheres.
>> http://www.divingheritage.com/leverpumps.htm
>> This page recommends 1.5 cubic feet per minute for each atmosphere.
>>
>> At 2.5 atmospheres that would be 4320 cubic inches, approximately 5
>> times your calculation.
>
> OK, I bobbled the math there. But even taking that into account,
> that's 60 strokes a minute, not 200+
I calculate the capacity of the largest pump to be 56 cubic inches per
cycle, which isn't much less than your estimate. I don't see why you
say a diver would need only 900 cubic inches per minute at 2.5
atmospheres. Isn't 2.5 cubic feet 4320 cubic inches?
For the three pumps, I calculate
120
86
77
cycles per minute. The first one, 120, would be 4 strokes (2 each way)
per second. How long could anyone keep that up? (Not having tried, I
don't know.)
>
>> If the diver could tolerate more CO2 or he
>> exhaled toward the vent, perhaps his requirement would be much lower
>> than I read.
>
> OK, I was using different base numbers. This page
> <http://www.mtsu.edu/~psyskip/physics.htm>, in the bottom section: How
> long will my air last? was using a base number of 1 cu.ft/minute on
> the surface and included this statement: "By the way most new divers
> do breathe about 1 cubic feet per minute."
>
That's for scuba. The scuba diver exhales into the water. The helmeted
diver exhales into his air supply. If he uses as little air as the
scuba diver, the air he inhales may have as much CO2 as the air the
scuba diver exhales.
Perhaps in the days of hand pumps, helmeted divers got less than 1.5
cubic feet per atmosphere per minute and tolerated breathing air that
was relatively high in CO2. Also, RH's pump may have been for the
shallowest diving.
In article <[email protected]>,
"R.H." <[email protected]> wrote:
> http://puzzlephotos.blogspot.com/
Okey-dokey...guesses this time.
1142 -- I suspect this to be a speed governor, apparently working by
varying the effective diameter of a pulley for a belt or otherwise
varying some friction connection. Another possibility is an automatic
stopping device for a machine (movie projector?) when something (movie
film?) breaks or runs out, but I'm going with the governor.
1143 -- Is this a through-the-door mailbox of some sort? Failing that,
it must be a 9" buckeye box.
1144 -- Frame for holding candles for dipping?
1145 -- Holder for goods for a street or stadium vendor--possibly for
lollypops or (from the eagle motif) sparklers or other pyrotechnics.
Why else would you have slightly diagonal handles?
1146 -- Adjustable air inlet for something--possibly a door closer?
Pure guesswork here, even more than the other guesses.
1147 -- Test fixture for altimeters, in its natural (?) habitat among a
large collection of assorted scales, woodworking hand tools, and sundry
other old items.
--
Andrew Erickson
"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot
lose." -- Jim Elliot
On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 06:12:42 -0500, Bill Rider <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Barbara Bailey wrote:
>> On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 20:44:04 -0500, Bill Rider <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Barbara Bailey wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 18:35:36 -0500, Bill Rider <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Barbara Bailey wrote:
>>>>>> On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 09:53:53 -0600, [email protected]
>>>>>> (Matthew T. Russotto) wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In article <[email protected]>,
>>>>>>> R.H. <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Set number 206 has just been posted:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://puzzlephotos.blogspot.com/
>>>>>>> 1147: It's a pump, but the "altitude" marking gauge is interesting.
>>>>>>> Perhaps it is intended as part of some equipment for simulating lower
>>>>>>> pressures up to 70,000 feet.
>>>>>> It's a "shallow water dive pump" for pumping air to an old-style
>>>>>> hard-helmet diver.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <http://www.nauticalantiquesandgifts.com/catalog/item/2573712/3413297.htm>
>>>>>> The one on the linked webpage is also made by The Cleveland Faucet Co.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This one shows the hose fitting that the pressure gauge is attached
>>>>>> to:
>>>>>> <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270140588705>
>>>>>>
>>>>> I wonder how it pumped the necessary volume.
>>>>>
>>>>> The diameter of each cylinder looks like 2.5" and the height 3". The
>>>>> whole inside wouldn't be available for air, so a stroke would be less
>>>>> than 15 cubic inches. A cycle of the lever would be less than 30 cubic
>>>>> inches.
>>>>>
>>>>> At 68 feet, a helmeted diver would require a pump to suck in 4.5 cubic
>>>>> feet of air per minute. That would be more than 259 cycles of the pump
>>>>> lever per minute.
>>>>>
>>>>> I should stay away from math. It gets me all mixed up!
>>>> I think you're seriously underestimating the size of the cylinders.
>>>> They're much closer to twice as tall as they are in diameter than they
>>>> are to the same height as diameter.
>>> I was looking at RH's pictures. With an overall height of 43", I
>>> calculated the diameter of the gage at 5.5". I used that to calculate
>>> the size of the cylinders.
>>
>> But is his 43" to the top of the lever as it stands at an angle, or if
>> it were exactly upright? The Columbus Faucet #20 pump listed for
>> sale is 49" tall at full upright.
>
>I assumed RH measured 43" as it stands. With the lever vertical, it
>would be about 47".
>
>It's easy to see the stroke. It's the exposed piston rod with the lever
>tipped the other way.
Ah, and the other source of the confusion appears. Your original
statement was that the *cylinder* looked like it was about 3" in
height. You knew that you were referring to the stroke length -- I
thought you were talking about the height of the cylinder itself.
>
>I've remeasured RH's. It looks a bore of 2.8" and a stroke of 3" for 36
>cubic inches per cycle.
>
>The one on Ebay appears to have a bore of 3" and a stroke of 3.5" for 50
>cubic inches per cycle.
>
>The Model 20 appears to have a bore of 3" and a stroke of 4" for 56
>cubic inches per cycle.
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>>> If you look at the two links, the first one says that the base is 5"
>>>> wide, and it looks like the cylinder is about 3" of that. The one to
>>>> the eBay sale gives a total height of the mechanism of 14", and the
>>>> cylinders appear to be between 5" and 6" in height -- they're
>>>> slightly less than half the overall height. That changes the volume to
>>>> somewhere much closer to 30 to 35 cubic inches for each cylinder, and
>>>> 70 or more for both. As it's a walking-beam mechanism, the airflow is
>>>> continuous.
>
>When I expand the image so the device is 14.5 cm tall,
The pump itself without the lever? or the whole thing -- base to top
of handle?
> the cylinders are
>4.7 cm tall and the visible piston rod, which is the stroke, is 3.5 cm.
> That would mean 3.5".
>>>> Also, "shallow water diving" is 15 meters or less; so 50 feet or less
>>>> (2.5 atmospheres rather than 4;) that would require 900 cu. inches of
>>>> air or around 12 strokes a minute.
>>>>
>>> RH's gage goes to 70.
>>
>> The gauge was supplied by another company. (The speedometer on my car
>> goes to 100, but the car doesn't.) So the fact that the gauge goes to
>> 70 doesn't mean that anyone expected the pump to do so.
>
>OK, 2.5 atmospheres is fine with me. That would be about 50 feet on the
>gage, as you say.
>
>>
>>> I figured 34 at the surface and 68 on the gage
>>> would be 3 atmospheres.
>>> http://www.divingheritage.com/leverpumps.htm
>>> This page recommends 1.5 cubic feet per minute for each atmosphere.
>>>
>>> At 2.5 atmospheres that would be 4320 cubic inches, approximately 5
>>> times your calculation.
>>
>> OK, I bobbled the math there. But even taking that into account,
>> that's 60 strokes a minute, not 200+
>
>I calculate the capacity of the largest pump to be 56 cubic inches per
>cycle, which isn't much less than your estimate. I don't see why you
>say a diver would need only 900 cubic inches per minute at 2.5
>atmospheres. Isn't 2.5 cubic feet 4320 cubic inches?
That was the math bobble. I mis-converted average lung capacity in mL
into cu.in./minute, without accounting for breaths/minute.
>
>For the three pumps, I calculate
>120
>86
>77
>cycles per minute. The first one, 120, would be 4 strokes (2 each way)
>per second. How long could anyone keep that up? (Not having tried, I
>don't know.)
No clue here either, beyond a statement on on of those webpages
mentioned above, that the pump crew for one hard-helmet shallow diver
could be as many as 8 men.
>
>
>>
>>> If the diver could tolerate more CO2 or he
>>> exhaled toward the vent, perhaps his requirement would be much lower
>>> than I read.
>>
>> OK, I was using different base numbers. This page
>> <http://www.mtsu.edu/~psyskip/physics.htm>, in the bottom section: How
>> long will my air last? was using a base number of 1 cu.ft/minute on
>> the surface and included this statement: "By the way most new divers
>> do breathe about 1 cubic feet per minute."
>>
>That's for scuba. The scuba diver exhales into the water. The helmeted
>diver exhales into his air supply. If he uses as little air as the
>scuba diver, the air he inhales may have as much CO2 as the air the
>scuba diver exhales.
>
>Perhaps in the days of hand pumps, helmeted divers got less than 1.5
>cubic feet per atmosphere per minute and tolerated breathing air that
>was relatively high in CO2. Also, RH's pump may have been for the
>shallowest diving.
Well, when he gives us the answer, and tells which number he
photoshopped off the yoke, I bet one of the dive pages that we were
both looking at will be able to provide the specs for a Cleveland
Faucet #Whatever dual cylinder air pump. <g>
In article <[email protected]>,
R.H. <[email protected]> wrote:
>Set number 206 has just been posted:
>
>http://puzzlephotos.blogspot.com/
1142: A pulley with a brake. Perhaps for a stage, for lowering
scenery or your literal deus ex machina.
1143: There is or was a Buckeye tobacco company; perhaps a cigar
display box?
1144: Looks like part of a lamp
1145: Bullet molds
1146: Perhaps a thickness gauge (for measuring the OD of something),
but seems a bit elaborate for that.
1147: It's a pump, but the "altitude" marking gauge is interesting.
Perhaps it is intended as part of some equipment for simulating lower
pressures up to 70,000 feet.
--
There's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can
result in a fully-depreciated one.
1147 Pump (as any fool can plainly see), air pump, probably for automobile
tires, from the good old days when the gas pumps in gas stations were also
manually operated.
"R.H." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Set number 206 has just been posted:
>
> http://puzzlephotos.blogspot.com/
>
>
> Rob
On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 18:35:36 -0500, Bill Rider <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Barbara Bailey wrote:
>> On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 09:53:53 -0600, [email protected]
>> (Matthew T. Russotto) wrote:
>>
>>> In article <[email protected]>,
>>> R.H. <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> Set number 206 has just been posted:
>>>>
>>>> http://puzzlephotos.blogspot.com/
>>
>>> 1147: It's a pump, but the "altitude" marking gauge is interesting.
>>> Perhaps it is intended as part of some equipment for simulating lower
>>> pressures up to 70,000 feet.
>>
>> It's a "shallow water dive pump" for pumping air to an old-style
>> hard-helmet diver.
>>
>> <http://www.nauticalantiquesandgifts.com/catalog/item/2573712/3413297.htm>
>> The one on the linked webpage is also made by The Cleveland Faucet Co.
>>
>> This one shows the hose fitting that the pressure gauge is attached
>> to:
>> <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270140588705>
>>
>I wonder how it pumped the necessary volume.
>
>The diameter of each cylinder looks like 2.5" and the height 3". The
>whole inside wouldn't be available for air, so a stroke would be less
>than 15 cubic inches. A cycle of the lever would be less than 30 cubic
>inches.
>
>At 68 feet, a helmeted diver would require a pump to suck in 4.5 cubic
>feet of air per minute. That would be more than 259 cycles of the pump
>lever per minute.
>
>I should stay away from math. It gets me all mixed up!
I think you're seriously underestimating the size of the cylinders.
They're much closer to twice as tall as they are in diameter than they
are to the same height as diameter.
If you look at the two links, the first one says that the base is 5"
wide, and it looks like the cylinder is about 3" of that. The one to
the eBay sale gives a total height of the mechanism of 14", and the
cylinders appear to be between 5" and 6" in height -- they're
slightly less than half the overall height. That changes the volume to
somewhere much closer to 30 to 35 cubic inches for each cylinder, and
70 or more for both. As it's a walking-beam mechanism, the airflow is
continuous.
Also, "shallow water diving" is 15 meters or less; so 50 feet or less
(2.5 atmospheres rather than 4;) that would require 900 cu. inches of
air or around 12 strokes a minute.
R.H. wrote:
> Just posted the answer page, thanks to everyone who participated this week:
>
>
> http://pzphotosans206-x8.blogspot.com/
>
>
> Rob
I wonder if 1146 could have been a peak flow recorder. Suppose you want
a record of peak rainfall. You smear chalk along the spiral. You set
the cup under shelter and make sure it's level. You put in a tube that
carries water collected from a surface of a certain size. The end of
the tube should be near the bottom of the cup to avoid splashing.
As the water rises, it will flow out the holes along the spiral, washing
away the chalk on its way down. When people ask the scientist if it
rained cats and dogs last night, he checks the cup to see how much chalk
was washed away.
A higher level would mean more holes as well as more pressure, so maybe
it would measure the log of the flow. To be precise, the scientist would
have to know the temperature of the water because that would determine
viscosity.
On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 09:53:53 -0600, [email protected]
(Matthew T. Russotto) wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
>R.H. <[email protected]> wrote:
>>Set number 206 has just been posted:
>>
>>http://puzzlephotos.blogspot.com/
>1147: It's a pump, but the "altitude" marking gauge is interesting.
>Perhaps it is intended as part of some equipment for simulating lower
>pressures up to 70,000 feet.
It's a "shallow water dive pump" for pumping air to an old-style
hard-helmet diver.
<http://www.nauticalantiquesandgifts.com/catalog/item/2573712/3413297.htm>
The one on the linked webpage is also made by The Cleveland Faucet Co.
This one shows the hose fitting that the pressure gauge is attached
to:
<http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270140588705>
"R.H." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Just posted the answer page, thanks to everyone who participated this
> week:
>
>
> http://pzphotosans206-x8.blogspot.com/
>
>
> Rob
1142 Fishing boat winch? On the west coast of Canada we call them a Gurdy!
As a rule they are ganged with four or more on a shaft. They are used on
Salmon trollers, more commonly known as a West Coast Troller. One of my
friends is part owner of Smith Brothers Foundry, and Machine shop which
makes them.
Steve R.