[email protected] wrote:
> Toller wrote:
>> "Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> In article <0SYgh.6152$hy6.3288@trnddc05>, "resrfglc"
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> Preferably in SW FLA or SW North Carolina.
>>>>
>>>> A source for plain ole Lye. If you know of one, pls advise if you know of
>>>> a
>>>> source.
>>> Any hardware store should have it -- Ace, TruValue, Do-It-Best, etc. I'm
>>> pretty sure I've seen it at Home Depot or Lowe's, too, but can't swear to
>>> it.
>>> Lots of grocery stores around here (Indianapolis) sell it, too.
>>>
>> A couple years ago I couldn't find it anywhere. I finally bought some drain
>> cleaner that had lye as the only active ingredient. Didn't like what it did
>> to cherry.
>
> Was it white? If not it had a dye in it. Not an active ingredient
> when
> cleaning drains perhaps. Draino also has aluminum flakes in it,
> which is an active ingredient, a very active one and should be labeled
> as such.
>
Actually, lye IS an active ingredient. Lye
dissolves fats (lye plus fat makes soap) and lye
dissolves proteins. Thus lye is active for the
two major causes of drain blockage.
Lye acting on the aluminum creates heat and
bubbles, increasing the possibility of moving mass
obstructions.
Toller wrote:
> "Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > In article <0SYgh.6152$hy6.3288@trnddc05>, "resrfglc"
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>Preferably in SW FLA or SW North Carolina.
> >>
> >>A source for plain ole Lye. If you know of one, pls advise if you know of
> >>a
> >>source.
> >
> > Any hardware store should have it -- Ace, TruValue, Do-It-Best, etc. I'm
> > pretty sure I've seen it at Home Depot or Lowe's, too, but can't swear to
> > it.
> > Lots of grocery stores around here (Indianapolis) sell it, too.
> >
> A couple years ago I couldn't find it anywhere. I finally bought some drain
> cleaner that had lye as the only active ingredient. Didn't like what it did
> to cherry.
Was it white? If not it had a dye in it. Not an active ingredient
when
cleaning drains perhaps. Draino also has aluminum flakes in it,
which is an active ingredient, a very active one and should be labeled
as such.
--
FF
George E. Cawthon wrote:
> Doug Miller wrote:
> > In article <[email protected]>, "George E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> [email protected] wrote:
> >
> >>> Was it white? If not it had a dye in it. Not an active ingredient
> >>> when
> >>> cleaning drains perhaps. Draino also has aluminum flakes in it,
> >>> which is an active ingredient, a very active one and should be labeled
> >>> as such.
> >>>
> >> Actually, lye IS an active ingredient.
> >
> > He said the *dye* is not an active ingredient...
> >
> No he didn't. It was not clear what the "not an
> active ingredient" referred to. You inferred one
> way, I inferred a different way.
I only mentioned two ingredients, dye
and aluminum flakes. That just goes to
show how easy it is to miscommunicate.
--
FF
George E. Cawthon wrote:
>
> ...
>
> Glad to see that Idaho is not on that list of
> MethWatch states. Federal and State officials
> indicate that most meth that comes into Idaho is
> manufactured in Mexico, not locally manufactured.
> So, focus on controlling something like NaOH
> would be rather unproductive.
Thank God they don't make crystal Meth from wood!
--
FF
THANK YOU lots of sources mentioned:
Where to Buy Lye
From David Fisher,
Your Guide to Candle and Soap Making.
FREE Newsletter. Sign Up Now!
No Lye = No Soap
(Note: Upated list of lye vendors below)
Well, it's been over a year now now, and we're still making soap. There was
worry when Red Devil Lye was taken from the shelves...but a number of online
and local vendors have taken up the slack to make up for Red Devil Lye being
pulled from the supermarkets.
Here are stores, sites and solutions that many soap makers have come up
with:
a.. Get together with other soap makers in your area and "go in" on buying
a bag of lye, carefully splitting it between you. Lots of soap makers buy
their lye in bulk. Most large cities have a solvent or chemical company that
will sell lye (Sodium Hydroxide) in 35 or 50 lb. bags. You'll pay a fraction
(per pound) of what the Red Devil cost, but, you've got to be able to safely
store that much lye. Remember the cautions you go through with a 12 oz. jar
of lye, now imagine 35 lbs. of it!
b.. Buy a whole bag yourself, knowing that it needs to be stored in an
airtight container, safely away from children, pets or other unknowing
people.
c.. Check your local hardware store - Several people have written me
claiming to have found Crystal Drain Opener at their local Lowe's, Home
Depot or Wal-Mart. The label states 100% sodium hydroxide! BUT, it's best to
check the manufacturers site and check the MSDS sheets for the product. I
had one user write me and say that while the label said 100% lye, the MSDS
sheet said otherwise.
d.. Buy lye from one of the following online mail order vendors:
a..
b.. Camden-GreyBitter Creek Candle Co.-buy only 2 lbs!
c.. Texas Natural Supply
d.. Lehman's Soapmaking Supplies
e.. The Boyer Corporation
f.. Snowdrift Farm
g.. The Soap Dish
h.. ChemistryStore.com
"Nova" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:Eh0hh.633$Ei5.183@trndny05...
> resrfglc wrote:
>
>> Not interested in it for WOOD, but for electrolytic'ly removing rust -
>> didn't mention the intended use to try and keep everyone on topic.
>>
>> I've looked in ACE and HOME DEPOT and LOWES for Red Devil (as I, too,
>> rememberthat brand and wish I could find it.) without success.
>>
>
> It appears Red Devil Lye was discontinued about a year ago. Here's a link
> to an article by a soap makers suggesting sources for lye:
>
> http://candleandsoap.about.com/od/coldprocesssoapmaking/a/lyesources.htm
>
> --
> Jack Novak
> Buffalo, NY - USA
> [email protected]
"Lye is commonly available in grocery stores "
No so in my area. Red Devil is no longer carried by the stores here. Lord
knows, I've tried and called 'round.
However, FYI, I did find an approach that relies upon Arm & Hammer Baking
Soda or Laundry Soda in lieu of the "Lye" [Sodium Hydroxide] to derust
items.
Subsequent posts explain why it has been "pulled from the shelves."
"George E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Lew Hodgett wrote:
>> RE: Subject
>>
>> Lye, AKA: Caustic or sodium hydroxide.
>>
>> May not be available to the general retail public, but a very common
>> industrial chemical.
>>
>> Lew
>
> Oh for Pete's sake. This comes up all the time. Lye is commonly available
> in grocery stores and many other types of stores.
Not interested in it for WOOD, but for electrolytic'ly removing rust -
didn't mention the intended use to try and keep everyone on topic.
I've looked in ACE and HOME DEPOT and LOWES for Red Devil (as I, too,
rememberthat brand and wish I could find it.) without success.
Thanks for the feedback
"Toller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> In article <0SYgh.6152$hy6.3288@trnddc05>, "resrfglc"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>Preferably in SW FLA or SW North Carolina.
>>>
>>>A source for plain ole Lye. If you know of one, pls advise if you know of
>>>a
>>>source.
>>
>> Any hardware store should have it -- Ace, TruValue, Do-It-Best, etc. I'm
>> pretty sure I've seen it at Home Depot or Lowe's, too, but can't swear to
>> it.
>> Lots of grocery stores around here (Indianapolis) sell it, too.
>>
> A couple years ago I couldn't find it anywhere. I finally bought some
> drain cleaner that had lye as the only active ingredient. Didn't like
> what it did to cherry.
>
resrfglc wrote:
> Not interested in it for WOOD, but for electrolytic'ly removing rust -
> didn't mention the intended use to try and keep everyone on topic.
>
> I've looked in ACE and HOME DEPOT and LOWES for Red Devil (as I, too,
> rememberthat brand and wish I could find it.) without success.
>
It appears Red Devil Lye was discontinued about a year ago. Here's a
link to an article by a soap makers suggesting sources for lye:
http://candleandsoap.about.com/od/coldprocesssoapmaking/a/lyesources.htm
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]
In article <Dv%gh.696$od6.582@trnddc04>, "resrfglc" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Not interested in it for WOOD, but for electrolytic'ly removing rust -
Washing soda works well for that purpose, too, and isn't anywhere nearly as
hazardous.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
Nova wrote:
> George E. Cawthon wrote:
>> Nova wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Things change. From "Wikipedia" regarding lye uses"
>>>
>>> "Illegal drugs
>>>
>
> <snip>
>
>> Bull! the Wikipedia article (if you quoted accurately) isn't true.
>
> Here's a link to a soap makers supply that sells lye. Read their
> statement on compliance with state/local laws. Note the Indiana
> "MethWatch" symbol near the bottom of the page.
>
> http://www.thesoapdish.com/caustics.htm
>
> Other "MethWatch" states include:
>
> Georgia
> Indiana
> Iowa
> Maine
> Michigan
> Minnesota
> Mississippi
> Montana
> New Mexico
> North Carolina
> Oregon
> Pennsylvania
> South Carolina
> Tennessee
> Texas
> Virginia
> Washington
> Wyoming
>
> Federal legislation is being called for.
>
Boy they really covered their ass! It appears that
participation in the program is voluntary and they
set their own limits and parameters. Control of
the main substance is far more important and is
currently being addressed in many or most states.
Glad to see that Idaho is not on that list of
MethWatch states. Federal and State officials
indicate that most meth that comes into Idaho is
manufactured in Mexico, not locally manufactured.
So, focus on controlling something like NaOH
would be rather unproductive.
George E. Cawthon wrote:
<snip>
> Lye acting on the aluminum creates heat and bubbles, increasing the
> possibility of moving mass obstructions.
Lye plus aluminum plus water creates hydrogen.
When I was a curious lad, I used to place a tablespoon of Drano brand
lye in an old soda pop bottle along with some water and then stick in
strips of aluminum foil and place a balloon over the mouth of the bottle
and the balloon would fill up with hydrogen. If you add too much lye,
it will generate enough heat to crack the bottle, so be very careful and
start with small amounts.
[email protected] wrote:
> Thank God they don't make crystal Meth from wood!
Was recently talking to an MD who is in family practice.
As far as he was concerned, the scariest substance on the planet right
now is crystal meth.
Provides the highest high of any drug, and it is almost instantaneous.
Also an instantaneous drop when it wears off.
So simple and cheap to make, so totally addictive, so totally
destructive to the user.
Before you ask, no the conversation never got around to including
nuclear materials.
Lew
Did a Google search on Red Devil Lye. First place I went to had it.
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> RE: Subject
>
> Lye, AKA: Caustic or sodium hydroxide.
>
> May not be available to the general retail public, but a very common
> industrial chemical.
>
> Lew
In article <XZmhh.3028$386.405@trndny01>, Nova <[email protected]> wrote:
>Here's a link to a soap makers supply that sells lye. Read their
>statement on compliance with state/local laws. Note the Indiana
>"MethWatch" symbol near the bottom of the page.
>
>http://www.thesoapdish.com/caustics.htm
I live in Indianapolis -- I'll check tomorrow at the store where I bought Red
Devil the last time I wanted some and see if they still have it. And I'll let
you know.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
George E. Cawthon wrote:
> Lew Hodgett wrote:
>
>> RE: Subject
>>
>> Lye, AKA: Caustic or sodium hydroxide.
>>
>> May not be available to the general retail public, but a very common
>> industrial chemical.
>>
>> Lew
>
>
> Oh for Pete's sake. This comes up all the time. Lye is commonly
> available in grocery stores and many other types of stores.
Things change. From "Wikipedia" regarding lye uses"
"Illegal drugs
Because it is a key ingredient in the process of making Methamphetamine,
it is now impossible to purchase pure Sodium hydroxide as a consumer
product in the United States. Products containing pure Sodium hydroxide,
such as Red Devil, are no longer available for sale. As a result,
amateur soapmakers must now purchase Sodium hydroxide in bulk."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_hydroxide#Illegal_drugs
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]
In article <0SYgh.6152$hy6.3288@trnddc05>, "resrfglc" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Preferably in SW FLA or SW North Carolina.
>
>A source for plain ole Lye. If you know of one, pls advise if you know of a
>source.
Any hardware store should have it -- Ace, TruValue, Do-It-Best, etc. I'm
pretty sure I've seen it at Home Depot or Lowe's, too, but can't swear to it.
Lots of grocery stores around here (Indianapolis) sell it, too.
Ask for Red Devil lye. It's the most common brand.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
George E. Cawthon wrote:
> Nova wrote:
>
>>
>> Things change. From "Wikipedia" regarding lye uses"
>>
>> "Illegal drugs
>>
<snip>
> Bull! the Wikipedia article (if you quoted accurately) isn't true.
Here's a link to a soap makers supply that sells lye. Read their
statement on compliance with state/local laws. Note the Indiana
"MethWatch" symbol near the bottom of the page.
http://www.thesoapdish.com/caustics.htm
Other "MethWatch" states include:
Georgia
Indiana
Iowa
Maine
Michigan
Minnesota
Mississippi
Montana
New Mexico
North Carolina
Oregon
Pennsylvania
South Carolina
Tennessee
Texas
Virginia
Washington
Wyoming
Federal legislation is being called for.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]
Nova wrote:
> George E. Cawthon wrote:
>
>> Lew Hodgett wrote:
>>
>>> RE: Subject
>>>
>>> Lye, AKA: Caustic or sodium hydroxide.
>>>
>>> May not be available to the general retail public, but a very common
>>> industrial chemical.
>>>
>>> Lew
>>
>>
>> Oh for Pete's sake. This comes up all the time. Lye is commonly
>> available in grocery stores and many other types of stores.
>
> Things change. From "Wikipedia" regarding lye uses"
>
> "Illegal drugs
>
> Because it is a key ingredient in the process of making Methamphetamine,
> it is now impossible to purchase pure Sodium hydroxide as a consumer
> product in the United States. Products containing pure Sodium hydroxide,
> such as Red Devil, are no longer available for sale. As a result,
> amateur soapmakers must now purchase Sodium hydroxide in bulk."
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_hydroxide#Illegal_drugs
>
Bull! the Wikipedia article (if you quoted
accurately) isn't true. You should know that
individuals write Wikipedia and you have to be
rather skeptical of the articles. For example,
look above at the poorly written part that you
quote, "Products containing pure Sodium
hydroxide...." That statement is very strange in
addition to the capitalized sodium. "Products
containing" sounds like you have pure sodium
hydroxide mixed with other things which would make
the sodium hydroxide impure.
In any case, oven cleaners (which are NaOH with a
propellant) are still widely available, as well as
dry NaOH in pound quantities, in the PNW. That
makes the Wikipedia article untrue.
On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 01:22:17 +0000, George E. Cawthon wrote:
> Nova wrote:
>> George E. Cawthon wrote:
>>
>>> Lew Hodgett wrote:
>>>
>>>> RE: Subject
>>>>
>>>> Lye, AKA: Caustic or sodium hydroxide.
>>>>
>>>> May not be available to the general retail public, but a very common
>>>> industrial chemical.
>>>>
>>>> Lew
>>>
>>>
>>> Oh for Pete's sake. This comes up all the time. Lye is commonly
>>> available in grocery stores and many other types of stores.
>>
>> Things change. From "Wikipedia" regarding lye uses"
>>
>> "Illegal drugs
>>
>> Because it is a key ingredient in the process of making Methamphetamine,
>> it is now impossible to purchase pure Sodium hydroxide as a consumer
>> product in the United States. Products containing pure Sodium hydroxide,
>> such as Red Devil, are no longer available for sale. As a result,
>> amateur soapmakers must now purchase Sodium hydroxide in bulk."
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_hydroxide#Illegal_drugs
>>
> Bull! the Wikipedia article (if you quoted
> accurately) isn't true. You should know that
> individuals write Wikipedia and you have to be
> rather skeptical of the articles. For example,
> look above at the poorly written part that you
> quote, "Products containing pure Sodium
> hydroxide...." That statement is very strange in
> addition to the capitalized sodium. "Products
> containing" sounds like you have pure sodium
> hydroxide mixed with other things which would make
> the sodium hydroxide impure.
>
> In any case, oven cleaners (which are NaOH with a
> propellant) are still widely available, as well as
> dry NaOH in pound quantities, in the PNW. That
> makes the Wikipedia article untrue.
The manufacturer's product page is
<http://www.reckittprofessional.com/productpro/ProductSearch.do?brandId=11&searchType=BPL&template=1>.
There is a "where to buy" link off of that but I'm not clear if it is for
that product specifically or for all products from the manufacturer.
On the other hand it would not surprise me if some coalition of
blue-haired ladies had a tantrum and persuaded the stores to stop selling
it.
FWIW, Fisher and Sargent-Welch both list various grades of sodium
hydroxide pellets, however I have no idea what restrictions they place on
ordering.
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <0SYgh.6152$hy6.3288@trnddc05>, "resrfglc"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>Preferably in SW FLA or SW North Carolina.
>>
>>A source for plain ole Lye. If you know of one, pls advise if you know of
>>a
>>source.
>
> Any hardware store should have it -- Ace, TruValue, Do-It-Best, etc. I'm
> pretty sure I've seen it at Home Depot or Lowe's, too, but can't swear to
> it.
> Lots of grocery stores around here (Indianapolis) sell it, too.
>
A couple years ago I couldn't find it anywhere. I finally bought some drain
cleaner that had lye as the only active ingredient. Didn't like what it did
to cherry.
Not sure when my latest purchase of lye was, but
it was less than 1 year ago. Just for the hell of
it I will check in a few stores tomorrow.
resrfglc wrote:
> "Lye is commonly available in grocery stores "
>
> No so in my area. Red Devil is no longer carried by the stores here. Lord
> knows, I've tried and called 'round.
>
> However, FYI, I did find an approach that relies upon Arm & Hammer Baking
> Soda or Laundry Soda in lieu of the "Lye" [Sodium Hydroxide] to derust
> items.
>
> Subsequent posts explain why it has been "pulled from the shelves."
>
> "George E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Lew Hodgett wrote:
>>> RE: Subject
>>>
>>> Lye, AKA: Caustic or sodium hydroxide.
>>>
>>> May not be available to the general retail public, but a very common
>>> industrial chemical.
>>>
>>> Lew
>> Oh for Pete's sake. This comes up all the time. Lye is commonly available
>> in grocery stores and many other types of stores.
>
>
>
In article <[email protected]>, "George E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>[email protected] wrote:
>> Was it white? If not it had a dye in it. Not an active ingredient
>> when
>> cleaning drains perhaps. Draino also has aluminum flakes in it,
>> which is an active ingredient, a very active one and should be labeled
>> as such.
>>
>
>Actually, lye IS an active ingredient.
He said the *dye* is not an active ingredient...
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
THANKS FOR THAT - THE WHERE TO BUY LINK WORKS NICELY, albeit sources are few
and far between!
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 01:22:17 +0000, George E. Cawthon wrote:
>
>> Nova wrote:
>>> George E. Cawthon wrote:
>>>
>>>> Lew Hodgett wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> RE: Subject
>>>>>
>>>>> Lye, AKA: Caustic or sodium hydroxide.
>>>>>
>>>>> May not be available to the general retail public, but a very common
>>>>> industrial chemical.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lew
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Oh for Pete's sake. This comes up all the time. Lye is commonly
>>>> available in grocery stores and many other types of stores.
>>>
>>> Things change. From "Wikipedia" regarding lye uses"
>>>
>>> "Illegal drugs
>>>
>>> Because it is a key ingredient in the process of making Methamphetamine,
>>> it is now impossible to purchase pure Sodium hydroxide as a consumer
>>> product in the United States. Products containing pure Sodium hydroxide,
>>> such as Red Devil, are no longer available for sale. As a result,
>>> amateur soapmakers must now purchase Sodium hydroxide in bulk."
>>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_hydroxide#Illegal_drugs
>>>
>> Bull! the Wikipedia article (if you quoted
>> accurately) isn't true. You should know that
>> individuals write Wikipedia and you have to be
>> rather skeptical of the articles. For example,
>> look above at the poorly written part that you
>> quote, "Products containing pure Sodium
>> hydroxide...." That statement is very strange in
>> addition to the capitalized sodium. "Products
>> containing" sounds like you have pure sodium
>> hydroxide mixed with other things which would make
>> the sodium hydroxide impure.
>>
>> In any case, oven cleaners (which are NaOH with a
>> propellant) are still widely available, as well as
>> dry NaOH in pound quantities, in the PNW. That
>> makes the Wikipedia article untrue.
>
> The manufacturer's product page is
> <http://www.reckittprofessional.com/productpro/ProductSearch.do?brandId=11&searchType=BPL&template=1>.
> There is a "where to buy" link off of that but I'm not clear if it is for
> that product specifically or for all products from the manufacturer.
>
> On the other hand it would not surprise me if some coalition of
> blue-haired ladies had a tantrum and persuaded the stores to stop selling
> it.
>
> FWIW, Fisher and Sargent-Welch both list various grades of sodium
> hydroxide pellets, however I have no idea what restrictions they place on
> ordering.
>
> --
> --John
> to email, dial "usenet" and validate
> (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Doug Miller wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, "George E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> [email protected] wrote:
>
>>> Was it white? If not it had a dye in it. Not an active ingredient
>>> when
>>> cleaning drains perhaps. Draino also has aluminum flakes in it,
>>> which is an active ingredient, a very active one and should be labeled
>>> as such.
>>>
>> Actually, lye IS an active ingredient.
>
> He said the *dye* is not an active ingredient...
>
No he didn't. It was not clear what the "not an
active ingredient" referred to. You inferred one
way, I inferred a different way.