Considering Used Tools

"Bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>I just found a TS (Unisaw) and a Jointer coming up for auction. I posted
>>pdf pictures of them on my web site:
>>
>> http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/
>>
>
> It looks like the front rail of the saw, is not parallel with the edge of
> the top--it looks like
> the rail is slanting downward to the right. Does this suggest a problem?
>

Looks like a bad photo angle to me... the camera angle is introducing
distortion.

No time to read the article in the link?


<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
No, it makes a liar out of you. Wide tires have exactly the same
surface area as narrow tires (hint: tire pressure). The *profile* of
the area changes.



On Jun 9, 11:20 pm, "Josepi" <[email protected]> wrote:
> More surface area decreases traction. A needle has a lot of weight per
> area
> and doesn't slip. A polished surface has more surface area and slides much
> better.

Wrong.

> However in tires this article and a few more makes a liar out of me and
> you.
> They claim the contact surface area does not change the friction.
> hmmmmm....http://www.worsleyschool.net/science/files/tires/andfriction.html

On Jun 9, 10:45=A0pm, "Bill" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Scott Lurndal" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > If I take a face jointed board and place it on my very flat tablesaw, i=
t
> > can
> > be difficult to move because it creates, for want of a better word, a
> > vacuum which tends to hold the board in place. =A0 Gouges in the surfac=
e,
> > so long as they did not protrude _above_ the surface, would relieve tha=
t
> > vacuum allowing the workpiece to move more easily, not to mention the
> > reduced
> > surface to surface contact region which would also work to reduce
> > friction.
>
> > scott
>
> We are talking about scratches, not like the indentations of a corrugated
> hand plane.
> Think of the corners at the top of a scratch more like a scraper (and pie=
ces
> of wood do
> not tend to be perfectly flat either, especilly near the ends).
>
> A little wax may help in the best or the worst case. =A0I've written
> everything I know about this.
>
> Best,
> Bill

My gut tells me to top your bid a $400.00. Live with the scratches
because milling the tops and wings(need to be done at the same time,
really) is way more work and expense than what that saw deserves.

On Jun 4, 11:55=A0pm, "Bill" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I just found a TS (Unisaw) and a Jointer coming up for auction. =A0I post=
ed
> pdf pictures of them on my web site:
>
> http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/
>
> What can you tell from looking (I'm sure your eyes are more learned than
> mine..). The jointer, at least, appears to have a 4" DC port. =A0It Does
> happen to say Unisaw on the TS (it it likely to have DC port?). =A0Any gu=
iding
> thoughts welcome!
>
> Thanks!
> Bill

That is a lot of saw. I agree with dpb that the odds of it being 3-
phase are slim. Going by the graphic on the Bies... I'd say no more
than 15 years old which is nothing. Look for nasty(deep pitted) rust.
It isn't a deal-breaker but should drop the price.
The possibility of that front box beam of the fence being bent is
almost impossible to imagine.

That jointer is a perfect candidate for a spiral segmented insert
cutter head. Great tool.

That DP?....meh...

Bill wrote:
> I'm not sure, but my guesstimate is that it could cost as much as
> $300 to have the TS moved (even
> though they wouldn't have to move it very far). Does your saw easily
> separate into 3 parts that could be
> moved by two people with a dolly and a U-Haul truck?

You'll be able to remove fence, rails, wings and main top. What is left -
case and motor - will still be heavy but is easily moved. What is *not*
easy is getting stuff from ground level into the truck and vice versa unless
the truck has a lift.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

> My gut tells me to top your bid a $400.00.

>It could be easily repaired for a tiny fraction of the cost of a new one.
For that matter, it may not *need* repairing in order to be fully
functional.

dadiOH


I agree with both above. I still think the saw is worth at least $600
(*single phase motor).
Despite the poor quality of the picture, the saw's top (or any other
aspect) doesn't look bad. The scrapes or gouges can't be that bad, or
there be that many, as to make the saw disfunctional, even with small
pieces of wood. The scrapes or gouges have to be by accident... no
woodworker would repeatedly or seriously damage their Unisaw and
unless the saw was sabotaged, it has to still be in good or very
reasonable shape (gouging the top is not the way to sabotage a saw, if
one had a mind to). I can't imagine those scrapes or gouges are so
serious that some minor filing of burrs (if applicable), or the like,
can't render the top into some very good shape for normal use. Just
because it may look unsightly, doesn't make it useless or
problematic. The pictures just don't indicate the need for major
repair, in order for the saw to function totally, and the onsite
inspection report isn't convincing that the top has horrible damage,
needing major repair. If the top was warped, then that would be
serious.

Sonny

On Sat, 5 Jun 2010 02:10:01 -0400, "Bill" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Thank you for your feedback!
>I suspect the TS runs--and it probably got a share of use too based on the
>number of tools
>that are part of the estate. None of them look new.
>
>I'm not sure, but my guesstimate is that it could cost as much as $300 to
>have the TS moved (even
>though they wouldn't have to move it very far). Does your saw easily
>separate into 3 parts that could be
>moved by two people with a dolly and a U-Haul truck? Don't take the word
>"easily" too seriously...I just

The saw is a late model right tilt Uni with what looks to be the
commercial 52" Biesemeyer fence. It's a good saw and as others have
mentioned, you might check to see if it's 3 phase.
Moving it is not much of a problem if you have a helper. The top
comes off with 4 bolts and you can leave the fence connected if you
are careful and have help to move it. Removing the motor is a good
idea. That takes the pressure off the trunnions when moving. After
that, it can be wheeled around easily.

Mike O.

"Bill" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:


>
>
> I arranged a preview of the TS today at the auction site today.
> I could look past the repaired rust spots in the table,
> but the several deeper 1/4"-3/8" wide scrapes across the top of the
> table (caused by what I haven't a clue) left me feeling like I could
> do better. Someone pushing large pieces through the saw might not
> have their work affected, but I can already hear myself grumbling when
> my smaller work might get stuck in some of the those scrapes.
> I appreciate better now why "mirror finish" is a standard.
>
*snip*
>
> Bill

If the scratches aren't very deep, perhaps you could have a local company
mill the top. That would restore your flat top, at the risk of a couple
pounds of iron.

I've got no idea how much it would cost, it may be only marginally
cheaper than replacing it.

Puckdropper
--
Never teach your apprentice everything you know.

On Jun 9, 11:20=A0pm, "Josepi" <[email protected]> wrote:
> More surface area decreases traction. A needle has a lot of weight per ar=
ea
> and doesn't slip. A polished surface has more surface area and slides muc=
h
> better.

Wrong.

> However in tires this article and a few more makes a liar out of me and y=
ou.
> They claim the contact surface area does not change the friction. hmmmmm.=
...http://www.worsleyschool.net/science/files/tires/andfriction.html

No, it makes a liar out of you. Wide tires have exactly the same
surface area as narrow tires (hint: tire pressure). The *profile* of
the area changes.

"Bill" <[email protected]> writes:
>
>"dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:VmOPn.13794$aO4.543@hurricane...
>> Bill wrote:
>>> "dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:aILPn.34518$U64.16377@hurricane...
>>>> It could be easily repaired for a tiny fraction of the cost of a new
>>>> one. For that matter, it may not *need* repairing in order to be
>>>> fully functional.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Very true. I should have run some pieces of wood across the top to
>>> see how much the added friction
>>> affected them. I still have a chance. Thank you for your interest.
>>>
>>> Bill
>>
>> Gouges, scratches, missing chunks would *decrease* friction, not increase
>> it.
>
>
>
>I don't believe I agree that an abundance of scratches would *decrease*
>friction at all.
>To the touch, they create a rougher surface, not a smooother one. A FILE
>provides a self-evident
>contradiction.
>

If I take a face jointed board and place it on my very flat tablesaw, it can
be difficult to move because it creates, for want of a better word, a
vacuum which tends to hold the board in place. Gouges in the surface,
so long as they did not protrude _above_ the surface, would relieve that
vacuum allowing the workpiece to move more easily, not to mention the reduced
surface to surface contact region which would also work to reduce friction.

scott

I didn't realize a new top was so expensive. Mike's Tools lists for
$579.... plus whatever S&H to your area.

Consider this option, maybe:
Since you'll go watch the bidding and even with a defected top, set a
limit of (say) $200, bid up to that amount and no more. Don't respond
to (accept) the auctioneer's opening asking amount, especially if it's
unreasonable high. If someone does accept the opening asking amount,
then just play it by ear. That initial bidder is most likely an
impulse buyer. By not responding to the auctioneer's opening asking
amount, he'll be forced to lower the starting asking amount. If no
bidders respond immediately to the auctioneer's initial asking, a
bidder may announce (offer) his own starting bid, usually much lower
than the auctioneer's initial asking. You don't have to accept the
auctioneer's initial asking amount. He simply wants to start as high
as he can. The idea is for the smart bidder to control the bidding,
not the auctioneer. Don't exceed your spending limit. Don't get
excited and become an impulse buyer.

Prior to the saw bidding, observe bidding on other items. This will
give a idea of what kind of crowd is bidding, i.e., knowledgeable
bidders or impulse buyers, and how much money they are willing to
spend (is their spending/bidding reasonable to the value of items or
are they spending too much for items). Take note of a bidder who
flashes his money or talks money, prior to bidding... don't get into a
bidding war with this type of impulse buyer/braggart. Again, set your
spending limit and don't exceed that limit.

Sonny

Sonny

On Fri, 4 Jun 2010 23:55:09 -0400, "Bill" <[email protected]> wrote:

>I just found a TS (Unisaw) and a Jointer coming up for auction. I posted
>pdf pictures of them on my web site:
>
>http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/
>
>What can you tell from looking (I'm sure your eyes are more learned than
>mine..).

The Unisaw is a RT (mirror image of mine) with a Biesemeyer fence. Can't tell
how long because the fence is cut off in the picture. It doesn't look too
old, but I'm not a Unisaw dating expert.

>The jointer, at least, appears to have a 4" DC port.

No information on the jointer.

>It Does
>happen to say Unisaw on the TS (it it likely to have DC port?).

It should have one. The actual port may or may not be there, of course, but
the part should be available.

>Any guiding thoughts welcome!

If you can get the saw at the right price, go for it. Make sure all the
pieces are there. Does it run? Rust?

More surface area decreases traction. A needle has a lot of weight per area
and doesn't slip. A polished surface has more surface area and slides much
better.

However in tires this article and a few more makes a liar out of me and you.
They claim the contact surface area does not change the friction. hmmmmm....
http://www.worsleyschool.net/science/files/tires/andfriction.html


<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Wide tires increase the lateral friction, useful for cornering. For a given
air pressure, pick your dimension of interest and the other falls out.


On Wed, 9 Jun 2010 22:07:06 -0400, "Josepi" <[email protected]> wrote:
>This is also a common misconception about wide tires.
>(then they have to put studs in them to lessen the surface area)

Bill wrote:
> "dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:aILPn.34518$U64.16377@hurricane...
>> It could be easily repaired for a tiny fraction of the cost of a new
>> one. For that matter, it may not *need* repairing in order to be
>> fully functional.
>>
>
> Very true. I should have run some pieces of wood across the top to
> see how much the added friction
> affected them. I still have a chance. Thank you for your interest.
>
> Bill

Gouges, scratches, missing chunks would *decrease* friction, not increase
it. IME, friction on a saw table isn't something one really encounters
unless you have glued sand paper to it :)

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

This is what I do to the home made port added to my 1949 4" Homecraft /
Delta jointer. The chips collect nice in a bag / garbage can.

Mike in Ohio

<snip>
>
> It's a pretty decent machine. Yes, it will have a 4" dust collection
> port, but of all the machines in a shop, jointers make probably the
> least amount of dust. I have that same model in the 6" width, and I got
> by for years by removing the dust port and simply placing a little trash
> can underneath the dust chute (which angles downwards away from the
> cutting area) and 90% of the shavings just fall right into it.
>

Bill wrote:
> "Sonny" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:c767ee77-d36e-446b-9ca4-2c8ca9852637@y11g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
>
> What is
> the prospect of being able to reasonable repair those scrapes, for
> good reliable use, until you can better repair or replace the top?
>
>
> I checked on the replacement cost of the top--$639.95 (S&H, extra).
> If this was a contest my guess would have been Really close.
> That's why I think I have to pass. But I may go watch the auction
> just in case...


It could be easily repaired for a tiny fraction of the cost of a new one.
For that matter, it may not *need* repairing in order to be fully
functional.


--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

On Sat, 05 Jun 2010 10:36:35 -0500, Mike O. <[email protected]> wrote:

>On Sat, 5 Jun 2010 02:10:01 -0400, "Bill" <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>Thank you for your feedback!
>>I suspect the TS runs--and it probably got a share of use too based on the
>>number of tools
>>that are part of the estate. None of them look new.
>>
>>I'm not sure, but my guesstimate is that it could cost as much as $300 to
>>have the TS moved (even
>>though they wouldn't have to move it very far). Does your saw easily
>>separate into 3 parts that could be
>>moved by two people with a dolly and a U-Haul truck? Don't take the word
>>"easily" too seriously...I just
>
>The saw is a late model right tilt Uni with what looks to be the
>commercial 52" Biesemeyer fence. It's a good saw and as others have
>mentioned, you might check to see if it's 3 phase.
>Moving it is not much of a problem if you have a helper. The top
>comes off with 4 bolts and you can leave the fence connected if you
>are careful and have help to move it. Removing the motor is a good
>idea. That takes the pressure off the trunnions when moving. After
>that, it can be wheeled around easily.

Note that these things are shipped from the factory in one piece (top on,
wings off) so, other than ease of moving, I don't see a reason to pull it
apart. *DON'T LIFT IT BY THE TOP OR WINGS.

> The thing about estate auctions is that I get the impression
> I'm the 25+ person to have looked things over, and that most
> "interesting" =A0things (like hand planes, for example), that weren't nai=
led
> down was already been picked up. =A0There was still a "ton of" stuff.

Is this an auction or an estate garage sale? Your description, here,
seems to indicate a garage sale type venue.

Despite wide scrapes (?) in the table saw top, don't underestimate
that saw. If the sale is, in fact, a garage sale, those scrapes are a
bargaining advantage for you. A gouge, to me, is/may be different
than a severe scrape, as for as affecting cutting results. What is
the prospect of being able to reasonable repair those scrapes, for
good reliable use, until you can better repair or replace the top?
Your subsequent description still hasn't convinced me the saw is not
worth $400, $500, $600. Sure, you can always do better, but when and
at what greater cost (maybe)?

At the same time, I don't doubt your ability to evaluate the tools,
especially after an onsite inspection.

The scrapes/gouges: Someone accidently gouged it with a router or
"skilsaw" when using it as a work bench? If there is a burr(s)
sticking up, file and/or sand it down, maybe?

Sonny

>
> Damn! =A0That was a smokin' good deal for that jointer...


Sure was.
Thanks for the update, Bill, and better luck next time. BTW, what
state are you located in, if you don't mind my asking.

Sonny

I would expect the auction site listing to include whether or not the
tools have single or 3 phase motors and some semblance of the working
condition of the tools. As best I can tell, they are all single
phase, but I can't be absolutely sure. If the auction site is well
known, I would expect the bidding on the table saw to reach at least
$600. $300 is wishful thinking. Even at $600 to $800, I think the
deal would be reasonable, if the motor is single phase. I wouldn't
bid more than half the price of a new saw.

Though there may seem to be a discrepancy with the front rail
alignment to the table top, that may be a product of the picture. The
rail, itself, looks straight. If it is bent, it is bent at the
location of the fence and it is hard to imagine how the rail would
become bent at that location.

I would expect the jointer to go for about $600, as well. My bidding
guesstimates are based on my online auction bidding and observations
experience for similar tools.

I wouldn't expect that shop to have updated tools and still have a
1950s vintage drill press. That drill press is much more recent than
1950.

Those are nice tools. It takes a hell of a lot of abuse to damage
those quality of tools. I suspect they run and run well. I would
suspect they are in good shape. If there is some "damage", it is
likely to be minor.

Sonny

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 4 Jun 2010 23:55:09 -0400, "Bill" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>I just found a TS (Unisaw) and a Jointer coming up for auction. I posted
>>pdf pictures of them on my web site:
>>
>>http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/
>>
>>What can you tell from looking (I'm sure your eyes are more learned than
>>mine..).
>
> The Unisaw is a RT (mirror image of mine) with a Biesemeyer fence. Can't
> tell
> how long because the fence is cut off in the picture. It doesn't look too
> old, but I'm not a Unisaw dating expert.
>
>>The jointer, at least, appears to have a 4" DC port.
>
> No information on the jointer.
>
>>It Does
>>happen to say Unisaw on the TS (it it likely to have DC port?).
>
> It should have one. The actual port may or may not be there, of course,
> but
> the part should be available.
>
>>Any guiding thoughts welcome!
>
> If you can get the saw at the right price, go for it. Make sure all the
> pieces are there. Does it run? Rust?

Thank you for your feedback!
I suspect the TS runs--and it probably got a share of use too based on the
number of tools
that are part of the estate. None of them look new.

I'm not sure, but my guesstimate is that it could cost as much as $300 to
have the TS moved (even
though they wouldn't have to move it very far). Does your saw easily
separate into 3 parts that could be
moved by two people with a dolly and a U-Haul truck? Don't take the word
"easily" too seriously...I just
wonder what I'm up against. I may call a mover before I bid! : ) Since
you were able to give me the model number,
I'll try to learn more about the TS online--thanks!

Bill

"Bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I just found a TS (Unisaw) and a Jointer coming up for auction. I posted
>pdf pictures of them on my web site:
>
> http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/
>

It looks like the front rail of the saw, is not parallel with the edge of
the top--it looks like
the rail is slanting downward to the right. Does this suggest a problem?

"Bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I just found a TS (Unisaw) and a Jointer coming up for auction. I posted
>pdf pictures of them on my web site:
>
> http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/
>

In case anyone likes old-looking tools, I added a DP.

Is this 1950's vintage?

It's not running on phase-3 power, is it?

On 06/04/2010 10:55 PM, Bill wrote:
> I just found a TS (Unisaw) and a Jointer coming up for auction. I posted
> pdf pictures of them on my web site:
>
> http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/
>
> What can you tell from looking (I'm sure your eyes are more learned than
> mine..). The jointer, at least, appears to have a 4" DC port. It Does
> happen to say Unisaw on the TS (it it likely to have DC port?). Any guiding
> thoughts welcome!
>
> Thanks!
> Bill

The jointer is the Delta 8" Professional model. It's basically this one:

http://www.mikestools.com/37-380-delta-8-professional-jointer.aspx

It's a pretty decent machine. Yes, it will have a 4" dust collection port, but of all the
machines in a shop, jointers make probably the least amount of dust. I have that same model
in the 6" width, and I got by for years by removing the dust port and simply placing a
little trash can underneath the dust chute (which angles downwards away from the cutting
area) and 90% of the shavings just fall right into it.

--
What percentage of the driving populace do you suppose actually
understands the rules of engagement at a four-way stop?
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

Bill wrote:
...

> It's not running on phase-3 power, is it?

I'd agree w/ other poster that info ought to be available but this is
obviously a home shop and the likelihood of there being 3-phase is quite
low. While again it's not possible to be absolutely certain, I'd say
the likelihood of those having come from anywhere except purchased new
by the owner is minimal at the highest. 3-phase stuff generally will be
found in industrial auctions where the gear came from production shop
facilities where 3-phase is readily available, not from estate sales.

There may be the one-off fella' you'll find who did buy old industrial
gear and add a converter or modify it, but it's not the norm by any stretch.

But, you'll certainly want to know definitively _before_ bidding altho
the prices you can expect to see will be significantly less for 3-phase
gear unless there's a pro in the audience... :) But, of course, then
you have to factor in what the converter's going to run...

--

"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
On Jun 4, 11:55 pm, "Bill" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I just found a TS (Unisaw) and a Jointer coming up for auction. I posted
> pdf pictures of them on my web site:
>
> http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/
>
> What can you tell from looking (I'm sure your eyes are more learned than
> mine..). The jointer, at least, appears to have a 4" DC port. It Does
> happen to say Unisaw on the TS (it it likely to have DC port?). Any
> guiding
> thoughts welcome!
>
> Thanks!
> Bill

That is a lot of saw. I agree with dpb that the odds of it being 3-
phase are slim. Going by the graphic on the Bies... I'd say no more
than 15 years old which is nothing. Look for nasty(deep pitted) rust.
It isn't a deal-breaker but should drop the price.
The possibility of that front box beam of the fence being bent is
almost impossible to imagine.

That jointer is a perfect candidate for a spiral segmented insert
cutter head. Great tool.




Thank you all for all of the comments and suggestions. From reading his
obituary, it is clear
that the original owner was really into his stuff, having a metal shop and a
wood shop (and a
car collection and an "old auto-parts related sign" collection, other
memorabilia, etc...). He
probably could have taught us a few good lessons. RIP.

"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:27da3acf-486b-43a6-a46f-

That jointer is a perfect candidate for a spiral segmented insert
cutter head. Great tool.

http://lumberjocks.com/reviews/935


I thought you might enjoy this review (written by someone who made the
substitution).
Bill

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sat, 5 Jun 2010 06:12:20 -0700 (PDT), Sonny <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>I would expect the auction site listing to include whether or not the
>>tools have single or 3 phase motors and some semblance of the working
>>condition of the tools. As best I can tell, they are all single
>>phase, but I can't be absolutely sure. If the auction site is well
>>known, I would expect the bidding on the table saw to reach at least
>>$600.
>
>$300 is wishful thinking.


Maybe I'll be the only bidder that morning? : )
Maybe I can get them to throw in a box of blades? : )

Thank you for helping me with the numbers.
I'll provide an update with the selling prices in case anyone is curious.

Bill

"Bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I just found a TS (Unisaw) and a Jointer coming up for auction. I posted
>pdf pictures of them on my web site:
>
> http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/
>


I arranged a preview of the TS today at the auction site today.
I could look past the repaired rust spots in the table,
but the several deeper 1/4"-3/8" wide scrapes across the top of the table
(caused by what I haven't a clue) left me feeling like I could do
better. Someone pushing large pieces through the saw might not have
their work affected, but I can already hear myself grumbling when
my smaller work might get stuck in some of the those scrapes.
I appreciate better now why "mirror finish" is a standard.

The thing about estate auctions is that I get the impression
I'm the 25+ person to have looked things over, and that most
"interesting" things (like hand planes, for example), that weren't nailed
down was already been picked up. There was still a "ton of" stuff.
A whole drawer full (and I mean full!) of screwdrivers--hardly any
sockets or wrenches. Few, if any, power hand tools or bits. Go figure.

Bill

"Sonny" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:c767ee77-d36e-446b-9ca4-2c8ca9852637@y11g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...

I'll precede my comments with --



Is this an auction or an estate garage sale? Your description, here,
seems to indicate a garage sale type venue.

--It's an auction held by a company, but will be held at the
site of the shop. Upon my request, they let me view the TS early.
If they are wise they should remove everything from the shop before
the auction starts and move it out to the yard/driveway.


Your subsequent description still hasn't convinced me the saw is not
worth $400, $500, $600. Sure, you can always do better, but when and
at what greater cost (maybe)?

--I do not doubt that the saw is worth $400-500. My plan was to buy the
Grizzly G0690 (~$1200), so I'm not getting sticker shock. If you happen to
have
read another thread I started, then you may know have been arranging the
details of the
240v wiring now. I think that
your assessment that someone might have gouged it with a skilsaw is
right on. In fact. they (more than) scratched it up completely--probably
using
it as a workbench as you mentioned. BTW, in view of the confined
work area of this shop, that makes the most sense. You are insightful,
Sonny! Anyway, the tabletop is unsightful. Having a new tabletop on
the saw would change my outlook on it. I still have time to look into that
possibility. I do not anticipate that this option is viable but I'm
considering
it now.


At the same time, I don't doubt your ability to evaluate the tools,
especially after an onsite inspection.
--Don't give me too much credit, I'm a relative newbe buying my first
and, most-likely, last TS. I removed the throat plate insert to see what
kind
of splitter, if any, might be present. There was piece of plastic perhaps
1" by 2",
with a large vee on the end in there. The saw is a Delta Unisaw Platinum
Edition.
Can anyone describe how that mechanism "works"? This saw had a
"dust bag" connected at the bottom (I presume a DC attached there may
not be quite as effective as on some more modern saws).

--So for another $600 (twice the price), I could get a saw with a riving
knife, having a top
with a mirrror finish, probably better dust collection, simpler delivery to
my house, and a warrantee.
The Delta saw did sound great (I haven't heard a Grizzly).
The Delta TS did not appear to have a fine adjustment mechanism on it's
Beisemeyer fence (surely it's an older model ~15 years).

--Your post was helpful. As always, thank you for helping me think!!

Bill

"Sonny" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:c767ee77-d36e-446b-9ca4-2c8ca9852637@y11g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...

What is
the prospect of being able to reasonable repair those scrapes, for
good reliable use, until you can better repair or replace the top?


I checked on the replacement cost of the top--$639.95 (S&H, extra).
If this was a contest my guess would have been Really close.
That's why I think I have to pass. But I may go watch the auction just in
case...

Bill

"Sonny" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:63528ef4-f1d9-4c61-b7a6-cd19f3e1e939@y11g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
>I didn't realize a new top was so expensive. Mike's Tools lists for
> $579.... plus whatever S&H to your area.
>
> Consider this option, maybe:
> Since you'll go watch the bidding and even with a defected top, set a
> limit of (say) $200, bid up to that amount and no more. Don't respond
> to (accept) the auctioneer's opening asking amount, especially if it's
> unreasonable high.


Thank you. Your suggestion is darn close to what I had in mind.

I confess that I'm not the best auction bidder. Sometimes I forget and
feel like I'm in some sort of competition--which it is, but of course
you know that the goal is not to win the competition at any cost! I've
won a few I should have let go of... You proffered good advice!

Bill

"dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:aILPn.34518$U64.16377@hurricane...
> It could be easily repaired for a tiny fraction of the cost of a new one.
> For that matter, it may not *need* repairing in order to be fully
> functional.
>

Very true. I should have run some pieces of wood across the top to see how
much the added friction
affected them. I still have a chance. Thank you for your interest.

Bill

"dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:VmOPn.13794$aO4.543@hurricane...
> Bill wrote:
>> "dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:aILPn.34518$U64.16377@hurricane...
>>> It could be easily repaired for a tiny fraction of the cost of a new
>>> one. For that matter, it may not *need* repairing in order to be
>>> fully functional.
>>>
>>
>> Very true. I should have run some pieces of wood across the top to
>> see how much the added friction
>> affected them. I still have a chance. Thank you for your interest.
>>
>> Bill
>
> Gouges, scratches, missing chunks would *decrease* friction, not increase
> it.



I don't believe I agree that an abundance of scratches would *decrease*
friction at all.
To the touch, they create a rougher surface, not a smooother one. A FILE
provides a self-evident
contradiction.

Bill



IME, friction on a saw table isn't something one really encounters
> unless you have glued sand paper to it :)

See example above.

>
> --
>
> dadiOH
> ____________________________
>
> dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
> ...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
> LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
> Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
>
>
>

"Scott Lurndal" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> If I take a face jointed board and place it on my very flat tablesaw, it
> can
> be difficult to move because it creates, for want of a better word, a
> vacuum which tends to hold the board in place. Gouges in the surface,
> so long as they did not protrude _above_ the surface, would relieve that
> vacuum allowing the workpiece to move more easily, not to mention the
> reduced
> surface to surface contact region which would also work to reduce
> friction.
>
> scott

We are talking about scratches, not like the indentations of a corrugated
hand plane.
Think of the corners at the top of a scratch more like a scraper (and pieces
of wood do
not tend to be perfectly flat either, especilly near the ends).

A little wax may help in the best or the worst case. I've written
everything I know about this.

Best,
Bill

"Sonny" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>> My gut tells me to top your bid a $400.00.
>
>>It could be easily repaired for a tiny fraction of the cost of a new one.
> For that matter, it may not *need* repairing in order to be fully
> functional.
>
> dadiOH
>
>
> I agree with both above. I still think the saw is worth at least $600
> (*single phase motor).


The scratches looked better today (perhaps someone worked on them a bit
before
the auction today) but I would access the overall condition of the saw as
good
to very good, surely not excellent or like new. I figured that for $500 and
the hardship of
figuring out how to get it home, that it would have been worth it.

This was not an issue as the saw sold for $850 (+ 10% buyer's premium +8%
sales tax).

Incidently the Jet (bench) drill press, with a cabinet support underneath,
went for $110 (+ 10% buyer's premium +8% sales tax)
and the Delta 8" jointer went for $225 (+ 10% buyer's premium +8% sales
tax).

I was tempted to bid on the jointer, but I couldn't justify the amount of
space
that it would take up at this point. I read its owner's manual online last
night, and learned a few things.

Lots of stuff at the auction was going real cheap, there was so much of
it...boxes and boxes of nails, screws, fasteners, wrenches, sockets,
taps--stuff
lots of people have, but Mr. West had the resources to store large
quanitites of stuff and he evidently took advantage of it. Towards the end,
$5 would get you more
nails and screws and fasteners than you could carry. For me the question
wasn't "Is this a good deal?", it was "Is it worth trying to find a place to
store it?" (as
virtually all of you surely understand better than I do)!

There were lots (dozens) of old automotive-related antique signs--very few
went for less than $100 and several larger ones went for as much as $850
(remember the red winged horse--the Marathon logo?). When I saw antique
"wall" thermometers going for $135 to $300 and the "rusty ol' signs" going
for $700-800, my hopes of getting a good deal on the TS diminished. A
fancy antique gas pump went for $1500 (museum quality) and 2 tire pressure
machines (the ones where you set the desired pressure with a crank) went for
over $500 each! Those didn't impress me much--and from the way the wife of
one of the buyer's rolled her eyes, they didn't impress her that much
either).

Not a decent hand plane in sight. Well, there's the price update I
promised. I saved you 5 hours in the hot sun (lovely day though)!

Bill

On 6/10/2010 6:27 PM, Bill wrote:
> and the Delta 8" jointer went for $225 (+ 10% buyer's premium +8% sales tax

Damn! That was a smokin' good deal for that jointer...

--
"Even if your wife is happy but you're unhappy, you're still happier
than you'd be if you were happy and your wife was unhappy." - Red Green
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

"Sonny" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:dcbd5b8a-213e-456e-bc13-b8bfb2e071ec@a30g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...

>
> Damn! That was a smokin' good deal for that jointer...


Sure was.
Thanks for the update, Bill, and better luck next time. BTW, what
state are you located in, if you don't mind my asking.

Sonny

No problem. I live in Indiana.
Bill

On Sat, 5 Jun 2010 22:13:34 -0400, "Bill" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
><[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Sat, 5 Jun 2010 06:12:20 -0700 (PDT), Sonny <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>I would expect the auction site listing to include whether or not the
>>>tools have single or 3 phase motors and some semblance of the working
>>>condition of the tools. As best I can tell, they are all single
>>>phase, but I can't be absolutely sure. If the auction site is well
>>>known, I would expect the bidding on the table saw to reach at least
>>>$600.
>>
>>$300 is wishful thinking.
>
>
>Maybe I'll be the only bidder that morning? : )
>Maybe I can get them to throw in a box of blades? : )
>
>Thank you for helping me with the numbers.
>I'll provide an update with the selling prices in case anyone is curious.
>
Sure. Win or lose.

This is also a common misconception about wide tires.
(then they have to put studs in them to lessen the surface area)


"Bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
I don't believe I agree that an abundance of scratches would *decrease*
friction at all.
To the touch, they create a rougher surface, not a smooother one. A FILE
provides a self-evident
contradiction.

Bill


"dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:VmOPn.13794$aO4.543@hurricane...
> Bill wrote:
>> "dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:aILPn.34518$U64.16377@hurricane...
>>> It could be easily repaired for a tiny fraction of the cost of a new
>>> one. For that matter, it may not *need* repairing in order to be
>>> fully functional.
>>>
>>
>> Very true. I should have run some pieces of wood across the top to
>> see how much the added friction
>> affected them. I still have a chance. Thank you for your interest.
>>
>> Bill
>
> Gouges, scratches, missing chunks would *decrease* friction, not increase
> it.





IME, friction on a saw table isn't something one really encounters
> unless you have glued sand paper to it :)

See example above.

>
> --
>
> dadiOH
> ____________________________
>
> dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
> ...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
> LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
> Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
>
>
>

On Sat, 5 Jun 2010 06:12:20 -0700 (PDT), Sonny <[email protected]> wrote:

>I would expect the auction site listing to include whether or not the
>tools have single or 3 phase motors and some semblance of the working
>condition of the tools. As best I can tell, they are all single
>phase, but I can't be absolutely sure. If the auction site is well
>known, I would expect the bidding on the table saw to reach at least
>$600. $300 is wishful thinking. Even at $600 to $800, I think the
>deal would be reasonable, if the motor is single phase. I wouldn't
>bid more than half the price of a new saw.

Just for a data point, I bought a new LT version of that saw for $1600 last
year. $600 to $800 would be a good price, assuming it is in good condition
(very little rust, nothing missing, 1PH, and working). Can you inspect it? As
others have noted, if it's 3PH it'll be a problem for a home owner. If it's a
5HP it'll take some serious wiring, but certainly not impossible.

>Though there may seem to be a discrepancy with the front rail
>alignment to the table top, that may be a product of the picture. The
>rail, itself, looks straight. If it is bent, it is bent at the
>location of the fence and it is hard to imagine how the rail would
>become bent at that location.

I would highly doubt that it's bent far enough to see in a picture. If you
can see it, leave it.

>I would expect the jointer to go for about $600, as well. My bidding
>guesstimates are based on my online auction bidding and observations
>experience for similar tools.
>
>I wouldn't expect that shop to have updated tools and still have a
>1950s vintage drill press. That drill press is much more recent than
>1950.

?? Is it or not?

You never know. The saw could have been replaced. It looks newer than '50s
to me. Again, I'm not an expert.

>Those are nice tools. It takes a hell of a lot of abuse to damage
>those quality of tools. I suspect they run and run well. I would
>suspect they are in good shape. If there is some "damage", it is
>likely to be minor.

Look for rust. It can be cleaned, but it'll reduce its value considerably,
IMO.

On Sat, 5 Jun 2010 02:10:01 -0400, "Bill" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
><[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Fri, 4 Jun 2010 23:55:09 -0400, "Bill" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>I just found a TS (Unisaw) and a Jointer coming up for auction. I posted
>>>pdf pictures of them on my web site:
>>>
>>>http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/
>>>
>>>What can you tell from looking (I'm sure your eyes are more learned than
>>>mine..).
>>
>> The Unisaw is a RT (mirror image of mine) with a Biesemeyer fence. Can't
>> tell
>> how long because the fence is cut off in the picture. It doesn't look too
>> old, but I'm not a Unisaw dating expert.
>>
>>>The jointer, at least, appears to have a 4" DC port.
>>
>> No information on the jointer.
>>
>>>It Does
>>>happen to say Unisaw on the TS (it it likely to have DC port?).
>>
>> It should have one. The actual port may or may not be there, of course,
>> but
>> the part should be available.
>>
>>>Any guiding thoughts welcome!
>>
>> If you can get the saw at the right price, go for it. Make sure all the
>> pieces are there. Does it run? Rust?
>
>Thank you for your feedback!
>I suspect the TS runs--and it probably got a share of use too based on the
>number of tools
>that are part of the estate. None of them look new.
>
>I'm not sure, but my guesstimate is that it could cost as much as $300 to
>have the TS moved (even
>though they wouldn't have to move it very far). Does your saw easily
>separate into 3 parts that could be
>moved by two people with a dolly and a U-Haul truck? Don't take the word
>"easily" too seriously...I just
>wonder what I'm up against.

With two people and a dolly? *Easily*, whole. It weighs about 600lbs, but
it's not awkward at all. You might want to bring a couple of 2x's to use as
blocking to lift it so you can slide the dolly under. Getting it into a truck
might be more difficult, but a trailer should be a piece of cake.

>I may call a mover before I bid! : ) Since
>you were able to give me the model number,
>I'll try to learn more about the TS online--thanks!

That's a good plan. Don't get caught in a bidding war, though.

On Fri, 4 Jun 2010 23:55:09 -0400, "Bill" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>I just found a TS (Unisaw) and a Jointer coming up for auction. I posted
>pdf pictures of them on my web site:
>
>http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/
>
>What can you tell from looking (I'm sure your eyes are more learned than
>mine..). The jointer, at least, appears to have a 4" DC port. It Does
>happen to say Unisaw on the TS (it it likely to have DC port?). Any guiding
>thoughts welcome!
>
>Thanks!
>Bill
>

I think it was Swingman but not sure used a tow truck with a tilt deck
to move their saw. Seemed to me to be a pretty elegant solution.
Still not cheap but an easy move with no dismantling required.

Mike M

On Wed, 9 Jun 2010 22:07:06 -0400, "Josepi" <[email protected]> wrote:

>This is also a common misconception about wide tires.
>(then they have to put studs in them to lessen the surface area)

Wide tires increase the lateral friction, useful for cornering. For a given
air pressure, pick your dimension of interest and the other falls out.