Norm isn't perfect, but some of the characters here seem to think that they
are. In my opinion, Norm is a very qualified woodworker and does a pretty
fine job of building many more projects than a lot of the characters that
seem to like bashing him on this newsgroup have ever done. So what if he
doesn't make every joint perfect or finish every project to the quality
level that some here seem to think is perfect in their minds.
What Norm has really accomplished with his shows is to get a huge number of
people interested in woodworking and furniture making who probably would
never have attempted it if they hadn't watched Norm do it. Watching him
makes people say to themselves "I could do that", and then many of them
actually have. With the large number of high schools discontinuing their
shop classes in recent years, the number of people even interested in doing
woodworking would have been falling significantly faster than it is if it
wasn't for Norm. He is a very good teacher and he shows machining and
assembly steps well enough for people to actually learn how to do it by just
watching his shows. I don't care if he's not perfect, he's a hero in my mind
for what he's done for the woodworking public and for increasing interest in
woodworking among our young generation, many of whom might not have ever
picked up a tool and built something out of wood if it wasn't for Norm. We
need him and more like him.
--
Charley
"Steve DeMars" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:BMb3g.28229$_z2.2249@dukeread02...
> Norm rules . . .
>
>
>
> "Locutus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I love watching NYWS and TOH, but it seems like any references to him on
> > here are people making fun of him. Is Norm not as good as we are lead to
> > believe?
> >
> >
>
>
The thing I don't like is when he does stuff with equipment that the
majority of use will never have. I don't think there are too many
people here who have a molding cutter with custom laser-cut knives for
each project. And how about his $800 pocket-hole machine?
That being said, he's still pretty damned good, and he was making nice
stuff long before he got all these nice gizmos and gadgets. Plus, I
suppose there is some merit to showing us what's out there for the
state-of-the-art and letting us see how much easier it can make our
lives.
As far as his finishes go, I'd guess that he's trying to cram a project
into a couple days of cutting and assembly and only a couple more days
of finish time. A really nice finish might take him a couple of weeks,
and he probably doesn't have that kind of time for a given project.
> I love watching NYWS and TOH, but it seems like any references to him on
> here are people making fun of him. Is Norm not as good as we are lead to
> believe?
> A really nice finish might take him a couple of weeks,
>and he probably doesn't have that kind of time for a given project.
IMHO, he would be well servered to just skip to the poly on every
project. It might be dull, but I think it would produce a more
attractive piece, the exception being reproduction pieces. Sometimes
it's appropriate to stain, and it's good to show those techniqies and
recipes. I think I'm most likely to just tung oil poly most projects.
brian
Locutus wrote:
> I love watching NYWS and TOH, but it seems like any references to him on
> here are people making fun of him. Is Norm not as good as we are lead to
> believe?
I watch just about every week, and am slowly (56k dialup) downloading some
of his episodes, I don't like the fact that he uses brads all the time, but
he is on a time crunch, he trends to over complicate things as well.
I really like when he show how to build and use jigs, looking at one in a
book and seeing how to use it.
--
_________________________
if corn oil comes from corn,
and olive oil comes from olives
where dose baby oil come from?
Locutus wrote:
> Is Norm not as good as we are lead to believe?
Well, that all depends on what you've been led to believe.
If you believe Norm Abram is a hard-working, efficient woodworker with
a knack for choosing appealing projects and a lot of good old carpentry
know-how, you're right.
If you believe Norm is acknowledged as one of the woodworking greats of
all time, wrong. He's not in the same league as Krenov, Maloof, Frid,
et al., and he would probably be the first to admit it.
If you believe Norm has done a great deal to increase the popular
appeal and accessibility of woodworking, right.
If you believe Norm is a flawless role model for woodworking
craftsmanship, wrong.
If you believe that luck, connections, personality, and perseverance
(not necessarily raw talent) are the secrets of Norm's success as a
celebrity woodworker, right.
If you think that "Master Carpenter" is some kind of hard-earned,
recognized distinction, wrong. (Russ Morash, the producer of TOH and
NYW, made up the title).
JMHO, of course.
Download Limewire search for Woodworking and woodworking, two different
searches, and you should get something, searches do take a while, and there
are lots of other wood working stuff as well
John Grossbohlin wrote:
>
> "Richard Clements" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Locutus wrote:
>>
>>> I love watching NYWS and TOH, but it seems like any references to him on
>>> here are people making fun of him. Is Norm not as good as we are lead to
>>> believe?
>> I watch just about every week, and am slowly (56k dialup) downloading
>> some of his episodes, I don't like the fact that he uses brads all the
>> time, but
>> he is on a time crunch, he trends to over complicate things as well.
>
> Where can you download episodes? I've only seen VHS offered?
--
_________________________
if corn oil comes from corn,
and olive oil comes from olives
where dose baby oil come from?
Lee Gordon wrote:
> There is one guy on the crew who helps
> Norm but his duties are mainly involve helping to set up the tools and
> keeping the workshop clean.
Where do you get one of those? And I don't want to hear I have to
_pay_ someone. That's cheating. I'd like an unpaid apprentice
interested in learning shop cleanup who has absolutely no ambitions yet
has a killer work ethic. If any one knows of such a person please
contact me at:
yesiknowiliveinadreamworldbutyoucantblameaguyfortrying.com
R
Norm is how I got into woodworking. I havent seen him in a couple of
years but enjoyed him when I did watch him. I watch David Marks now
because of the hand tools use. He does some turning which I've gotton
into. The guy turning on DIY I watch some as well. None of these people
have projects that I ve built with norms router table ( not fence or
top) the exception. What I'am looking for is techniques. I've been
using blue tape at joints for easier glue clean up of joints. I use
scrapers more now.Thanks DM. Lets find the positives that these
crafters offer. Yes David has a $5000 + Oneway lathe but his technique
works on my $100 Rockwell/Delta.
Josh wrote:
> The thing I don't like is when he does stuff with equipment that the
> majority of use will never have. I don't think there are too many
> people here who have a molding cutter with custom laser-cut knives for
> each project.
Many of us have shapers and router tables. Custom profiles aren't that
out of this world, but you could always substitute stock profiles.
> And how about his $800 pocket-hole machine?
Which works exactly like the $50 pocket hole jigs, only faster.
> That being said, he's still pretty damned good, and he was making nice
> stuff long before he got all these nice gizmos and gadgets.
I agree, and you'd be shocked how many people buy the big ticket tools.
Barry
Smaug Ichorfang <[email protected]> wrote:
> I find it instructive to look at his fingers when they show a close-up of
> stuff he's holding. Purple finger nails, band-aides, and healing cuts.
> He's definitly not superman.
At least he hasn't bled all over a project like Roy Underhill does on a
regular basis. :)
--
David Hannu [email protected]
Tue, Feb 28, 2006, 4:31pm: [email protected] (Locutus) doth wonder:
I love watching NYWS and TOH, but it seems like any references to him on
here are people making fun of him. Is Norm not as good as we are lead to
believe?
All you have to remember is:
Norm is good. Roy is good. Bob is evil.
Anyway, you've got to admire anyone who can make a piece of
furniture in a half-hour, including commercials.
JOAT
I'd like to give you a going away present.
Just do your part.
On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 21:13:42 GMT, "Pete C." <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Production crew time costs $. Production crew sitting on their thumbs
>waiting for glue to dry wastes $.
So why show any of the construction process? Time is money, remember?
If they really were worried about that, they could have something they
glued together earlier, like they do on cooking shows.
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, "Pete C." <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> The time
>> spent developing the plan and building the prototype. The shooting days
>> are just the time spent building it again on camera.
>
> Exactly. All the grunt work is done by staff. Norm is not in that shop for
> more
> than 4 hours per episode... he spends the rest of his time in first class
> lounges at airports. He's a star.
LOL... Hand me a towel now...
On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 16:31:33 -0500, "Locutus" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>I love watching NYWS and TOH, but it seems like any references to him on
>here are people making fun of him. Is Norm not as good as we are lead to
>believe?
Norm is fine for what he does, he attracts a lot of people to
woodworking, but once you get past the initial stages and are making
finer projects, he's really not all that interesting. I still watch
him from time to time when I can, but there are things that he does
that makes me cringe, especially his finishing and the ever popular
"shoot a couple billion brads until the glue dries".
It's different tastes, I guess.
The Charley entity posted thusly:
>Norm isn't perfect, but some of the characters here seem to think that they
>are. In my opinion, Norm is a very qualified woodworker and does a pretty
>fine job of building many more projects than a lot of the characters that
>seem to like bashing him on this newsgroup have ever done.
Hey, a critic doesn't have to be better that the one he is
criticizing. I watch what few woodworking shows I have access to in
order to learn something.
> What Norm has really accomplished with his shows is to get a huge number of
>people interested in woodworking and furniture making who probably would
>never have attempted it if they hadn't watched Norm do it.
OK, so I'm interested. He did good. Now I look for other ways to
progress.
"CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> True but at least he admits it.
>
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> Actually Norm is pretty darn good up until it comes to finishing, IMHO.
IMHO a decent finish is not hard to achieve. I wonder if it is simply the
time period that he is going for.
Surely Norm has the ability. Perhaps he simply tries to copy furniture
store finishes. :~)
"Matt Stachoni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >How true--my weakness is chocolate.
>
> Mine too - plus, that stuff is damned hard to wipe off my furniture
> pieces.
I've tried repeatedly to use chocolate as a finish, but for some reason, it
always disappears before I can get it to my furniture.
Locutus wrote:
>
> I love watching NYWS and TOH, but it seems like any references to him on
> here are people making fun of him. Is Norm not as good as we are lead to
> believe?
Yes and no.
He generally does quite a good job on the projects but as some folks
have noted his finishes leave a bit to be desired. I will note that he
bills himself as a "master carpenter", not a "master cabinetmaker" and I
have no argument with that title.
There are certainly people out there that can run rings around him in
the furniture / cabinetry world, however they don't have TV shows
probably due in large part to their projects taking months to complete
rather than the perhaps one week of Norm's typical projects.
Additionally Norm's projects and his techniques are generally within
reach of the capabilities of a committed weekend woodworker.
Just my $0.10
Pete C.
Josh wrote:
>
> The thing I don't like is when he does stuff with equipment that the
> majority of use will never have. I don't think there are too many
> people here who have a molding cutter with custom laser-cut knives for
> each project. And how about his $800 pocket-hole machine?
There are molding heads for table saws and better ones for shapers.
There are lots of stock knives available and companies that will do
custom knives fairly reasonably.
He may have the $800 production pocket hole machine, but you can get the
$20 Kregg pocket hole jig and do the same thing or spring for the $120
Kregg kit which works beautifully and is just not as fast for production
use.
Norm just has the high end versions or things that are still available
to the weekend woodworker.
>
> That being said, he's still pretty damned good, and he was making nice
> stuff long before he got all these nice gizmos and gadgets. Plus, I
> suppose there is some merit to showing us what's out there for the
> state-of-the-art and letting us see how much easier it can make our
> lives.
Right.
>
> As far as his finishes go, I'd guess that he's trying to cram a project
> into a couple days of cutting and assembly and only a couple more days
> of finish time. A really nice finish might take him a couple of weeks,
> and he probably doesn't have that kind of time for a given project.
That's the key right there, he needs to be able to shoot the shows
pretty quickly. I'd expect that most of the projects are shot in a week
or less. Probably a week before to figure out and build the prototype
and then a few days to shoot building it again.
Pete C.
On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 16:31:33 -0500, "Locutus" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>I love watching NYWS and TOH, but it seems like any references to him on
>here are people making fun of him. Is Norm not as good as we are lead to
>believe?
>
>
Nobody is as good as we are led to believe. The nice thing about
'Nahm' is he make the same mistakes as 'normal' folks and sometimes
the cameraman is fast enough to catch them and the producer leaves it
in the show. If you had the resources that the two productions
he's in have available to them, you too could look good if you had
presence. Norn has learned to get some and he hosts the show very
well.
Pete
Reed Snellenberger wrote:
>
> "Pete C." <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
>
> >
> > There are certainly people out there that can run rings around him in
> > the furniture / cabinetry world, however they don't have TV shows
> > probably due in large part to their projects taking months to complete
> > rather than the perhaps one week of Norm's typical projects.
> > Additionally Norm's projects and his techniques are generally within
> > reach of the capabilities of a committed weekend woodworker.
> >
>
> If you look at the bottom of his "New Yankee Workshop Web Cam" page
> (http://www.newyankee.com/yankeecam.php), he has a list of this season's
> projects that shows the shooting dates. Apart from the Router Workshop
> and a Storage Shed (3 days each), all of the projects were shot in two
> days.
>
> They've put up a slideshow for each day of shooting (nearly 600
> pictures/day!) -- among other things, it shows how much downtime they
> have during the shooting. There are a *lot* of shots of Norm & what must
> be the producer just standing around the set.
>
> --
> I was punching a text message into my | Reed Snellenberger
> phone yesterday and thought, "they need | GPG KeyID: 5A978843
> to make a phone that you can just talk | rsnellenberger
> into." Major Thomb | -at-houston.rr.com
Don't forget the non shooting days related to a given project. The time
spent developing the plan and building the prototype. The shooting days
are just the time spent building it again on camera.
Pete C.
Brian Henderson wrote:
>
> On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 04:55:46 GMT, Reed Snellenberger
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >If you look at the bottom of his "New Yankee Workshop Web Cam" page
> >(http://www.newyankee.com/yankeecam.php), he has a list of this season's
> >projects that shows the shooting dates. Apart from the Router Workshop
> >and a Storage Shed (3 days each), all of the projects were shot in two
> >days.
>
> The one thing I never understood, especially about his brad-fetish is
> that people keep saying he's only got so much time. Um... they can
> put it in clamps and turn off the camera, you know. Glue doesn't take
> that much time to dry.
Production crew time costs $. Production crew sitting on their thumbs
waiting for glue to dry wastes $.
Pete C.
Brian Henderson wrote:
>
> On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 21:13:42 GMT, "Pete C." <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >Production crew time costs $. Production crew sitting on their thumbs
> >waiting for glue to dry wastes $.
>
> So why show any of the construction process? Time is money, remember?
> If they really were worried about that, they could have something they
> glued together earlier, like they do on cooking shows.
It's a common sense tradeoff between wasting production crew time and
wasting Norm / construction crew time building ten copies of the item to
different stages so they can all be shot at once.
Pete C.
On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 23:41:43 -0500, "Lee Gordon"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>But on various occasions Norm has demonstrated all of those options. While
>we marvel at the coolness of his most elaborate tools (none any more
>unobtainable, I might ad, than David J Marks' multi-router or 20" jointer),
>and they are perhaps freshest in our memories, Norm will often show the use
>of the cheapest Kreg jig or or even even take a stab at freehanding.
But you have to remember that all the tools on David Marks' show are
his own, personal tools that he's aquired over a lifetime of
woodworking, plus the fact that on his tool show, he pointed out all
the things that he's gotten used, including his
aircraft-carrier-jointer. Norm's tools are all advertiser supplied
and any beginning woodworker isn't going to have access to $10,000
worth of tools. The two shows are really aimed at different audiences
as well.
On Sat, 04 Mar 2006 18:34:56 GMT, "Leon"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Sat, 04 Mar 2006 13:30:23 GMT, "Leon" <[email protected]>
>>>
>> ... or take sounds away. It's draw-ERS folks, not draws, and when I read
>> it car has an "r" in it, not a "w" :-)
>>
>
>Its funny, send for measured "drawerings" of a chest of "draws". And that
>garden expert on TOH and Ask TOH.... I often have to pause, back up, mute
>to see the caption, and play my DVR forward again to understand what he is
>saying. Let's take a Wok to the Pock to see if the Goden needs Waddur.
In a recent episode, he (Roger Cook, by the way) was helping a gal
with a sprinkler and had her digging a hole. The first shovelful she
tossed on the grass and he said, "whoa, don't put it on the grass!"
She said, "that's where you told me to put it; on the top."
He said, "no, I said put it over here on the top." (pointing to the
blue tarp nearby)
I've seen that episode two or three times and replayed it a couple
more and I'd swear he said "top" too.
On another episode he had done some job in Cambridge and in the
discussion after the segment the three others (Kevin O'Connor, Rich
Trethewey, and Tom Silva) tricked him into saying something to the
effect that he had to, "pahk the cah in Hahvahd yahd." He caught
himself just afterward as the others were rolling on the floor.
Years ago I was working with a couple of guys from Ware County, GA
(Waycross area), and when the two of them got together and started
talking it was almost impossible to understand them.
One day I asked them what you called the thing you shot with a bow.
"An err."
Okay, what's that stuff you breathe? "Air."
Alright, what's a mistake? "A Err."
They pronounced all three indistinguishably.
--
LRod
Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999
http://www.woodbutcher.net
Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997
email addy de-spam-ified due to 1,000 spams per month.
If you can't figure out how to use it, I probably wouldn't
care to correspond with you anyway.
On Sat, 04 Mar 2006 13:30:23 GMT, "Leon" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"B a r r y" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Don Dando wrote:
>>> He talks funny !
>>>
>>
>> All of us New Englanders want to know what you mean.
>
>Simple. Go To Texas and listen to how we speak. We of course speak English
>as it was intended. All Y'all up there add sounds to your words. :~)
>
... or take sounds away. It's draw-ERS folks, not draws, and when I read
it car has an "r" in it, not a "w" :-)
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
On Sat, 04 Mar 2006 18:25:45 GMT, "Leon"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Ba r r y" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Actually, as you move down to Southern New England (East Westchester
>> County to Charlie), we sound less like Norm, and more like Tony
>> Soprano and Gene Simmons.
>
>
>Whew, the first time I read that I though you said that you sound more like
>Tony soprano and "Richard" Simmons. ;~)
Well, actually, Richard Simmons _is_ from "Lon Gisland"...
"Brian Henderson" <[email protected]>
> and any beginning woodworker isn't going to have access to $10,000
> worth of tools. The two shows are really aimed at different audiences
> as well.
Ha! $10,000 wouldn't buy a quarter of Norm's tools.
Norm rules . . .
"Locutus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I love watching NYWS and TOH, but it seems like any references to him on
> here are people making fun of him. Is Norm not as good as we are lead to
> believe?
>
>
"Locutus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I love watching NYWS and TOH, but it seems like any references to him on
>here are people making fun of him. Is Norm not as good as we are lead to
>believe?
>
All I know is that he is a lot better than me. (Or maybe he just doesn't
show his failures).
Jim
"Fly-by-Night CC" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> What time crunch is he under? You really don't believe he completes his
> project in 27 minutes, do you? They could certainly allow the glue to
> dry the proper amount of time without the brad nailer -
How much time do you think that would add to the taping?
How many $ per hour do you think the crew and equipment costs?
Locutus wrote:
> I love watching NYWS and TOH, but it seems like any references to him on
> here are people making fun of him. Is Norm not as good as we are lead to
> believe?
>
>
Speaking for myself I respect, like, and watch Norm quite often.
Having said that, I also have noted and mentioned his propensity for
using a "few brads to hold it together until the glue dries". Nor am I
a fan of his finishing techniques. I'd guess that may be a common
sentiment here?
Dave
"Ba r r y" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Actually, as you move down to Southern New England (East Westchester
> County to Charlie), we sound less like Norm, and more like Tony
> Soprano and Gene Simmons.
Whew, the first time I read that I though you said that you sound more like
Tony soprano and "Richard" Simmons. ;~)
>
> So yes, Norm does talk funny, but not as funny as Texans. <G>
>
> Barry
Leon wrote:
> "CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>True but at least he admits it.
>>
>>"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>
>>>Actually Norm is pretty darn good up until it comes to finishing, IMHO.
>
>
>
> IMHO a decent finish is not hard to achieve. I wonder if it is simply the
> time period that he is going for.
> Surely Norm has the ability. Perhaps he simply tries to copy furniture
> store finishes. :~)
>
>
But Norm probably has sponsors. You can't be showing finishing wood
with anything too simple lets the folks dont line up to buy the fancy
stuff. It could just be Norm's tongue in cheek way of protesting.
--
Thank you,
"Then said I, Wisdom [is] better than strength: nevertheless the poor
man's wisdom [is] despised, and his words are not heard." Ecclesiastes 9:16
My problem with Norm's show is watching him push piece after piece through
his machines. How about cutting those parts of the show and a little more
on setup etc.
I have been watching and respecting Norm long before he built the medicine
cabinet. I think the fit and finish of his joints is superb.
I don't use brads to hold it while the glue dries and my favorite wood is
cherry and my favorite finish is Danish oil, sometimes with a coat or two of
poly.
If I could afford the tools he has I would have them also.
I still watch his show and the reruns faithfully, although I do tend to doze
off now and again watching him push wood through tue table sawrer or routah.
"Locutus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I love watching NYWS and TOH, but it seems like any references to him on
>here are people making fun of him. Is Norm not as good as we are lead to
>believe?
>
"Brian Henderson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 23:41:43 -0500, "Lee Gordon"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> But you have to remember that all the tools on David Marks' show are
> his own, personal tools that he's aquired over a lifetime of
> woodworking, plus the fact that on his tool show, he pointed out all
> the things that he's gotten used, including his
> aircraft-carrier-jointer. Norm's tools are all advertiser supplied
> and any beginning woodworker isn't going to have access to $10,000
> worth of tools.
Exactly
The two shows are really aimed at different audiences
> as well.
Dang it Brian... does that mean I am gunna have to stop watching one? LOL
"Locutus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I love watching NYWS and TOH, but it seems like any references to him on
>here are people making fun of him. Is Norm not as good as we are lead to
>believe?
I too like watching Norm, I just don't care for the stains & finishes that
he uses. I've always like the many different approaches he uses from one
project to another (with the exception of that brad nailer that's' ever so
prevalent). Norm has opened my eyes to different ways of approaching a
design and build. His projects are on a level of practicality where as many
of David Marks projects belong in a home I've never lived in or even walked
in before.....
Gar
"B a r r y" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Don Dando wrote:
>> He talks funny !
>>
>
> All of us New Englanders want to know what you mean.
Simple. Go To Texas and listen to how we speak. We of course speak English
as it was intended. All Y'all up there add sounds to your words. :~)
"RicodJour" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Lee Gordon wrote:
>> There is one guy on the crew who helps
>> Norm but his duties are mainly involve helping to set up the tools and
>> keeping the workshop clean.
>
> Where do you get one of those? And I don't want to hear I have to
> _pay_ someone. That's cheating. I'd like an unpaid apprentice
> interested in learning shop cleanup who has absolutely no ambitions yet
> has a killer work ethic. If any one knows of such a person please
> contact me at:
>
> yesiknowiliveinadreamworldbutyoucantblameaguyfortrying.com
>
> R
>
I find them every year. Local highschool wood shop. Once they're out of
school, I finance their projects. I buy the materials, supply the tools and
shop. They design and complete their project and sell it. The costs come off
the top and then we split the profit 60/40. They get the 60. After a year or
so, they move on and most of them make it from there on their own.
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
>
> Does he mention the brand names of the finishes he uses?
IIRC David Marks uses a disguised General Finishes can.
Norm, probably uses Miniwax which would explain a lot.
"Richard Clements" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Locutus wrote:
>
>> I love watching NYWS and TOH, but it seems like any references to him on
>> here are people making fun of him. Is Norm not as good as we are lead to
>> believe?
> I watch just about every week, and am slowly (56k dialup) downloading some
> of his episodes, I don't like the fact that he uses brads all the time,
> but
> he is on a time crunch, he trends to over complicate things as well.
Where can you download episodes? I've only seen VHS offered?
<<On another episode he had done some job in Cambridge and in the
discussion after the segment the three others (Kevin O'Connor, Rich
Trethewey, and Tom Silva) tricked him into saying something to the
effect that he had to, "pahk the cah in Hahvahd yahd." He caught
himself just afterward as the others were rolling on the floor.>>
It's funny that Trethewey was in on that gag considering that in the early
years of TOH he used to say "bahth" and "bahthroom" and trained himself
(probably at the insistence of the producers) to say those words the way the
rest of us do.
Lee
--
To e-mail, replace "bucketofspam" with "dleegordon"
_________________________________
Lee Gordon
http://www.leegordonproductions.com
"Lee Gordon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> <<My problem with Norm's show is watching him push piece after piece
> through
> his machines. How about cutting those parts of the show and a little more
> on setup etc.>>
>
> I agree that I'd like to see Norm do some of the setups but he has to make
> a few cuts on TV. Otherwise it would look like the pieces just appeared
> by magic. At least Norm generally makes only one demonstation cut per
> component. His way is a lot better than the Router Guys who cut every
> dado, every rabbet, every tongue and every groove on every piece of every
> project. That wouldn't be so bad if you could smell the sawdust.
>
Those router guys are sure good for insomnia. And their imprecise fence
setups are amazing to watch too. Loosen and hit with your fist. You better
get it right the first time because it will e hard to repeat anything.
As for Nahm, I cringe everytime I hear that lawyer mandated safety lecture.
Since he does all kinds of things that I would never do safety wise. He
just LOVES to run things through the tablesaw and router table with his
fingers VERY close to some rapidly spinning metal.
Sometimes I put my hands in my pocket or behind me whenhe does that. It is
hard to watch.
<<It's a common sense tradeoff between wasting production crew time and
wasting Norm / construction crew time building ten copies of the item to
different stages so they can all be shot at once. >>
In the case of NYW it would be a waste to do this because, contrary to the
belief of many, Norm does not have a crew of minions to do his grunt work.
Those members of the crew who are present in the workshop are there to
produce the TV show, not to build stuff. IOW, the crew is there to assist
Russ Morash (the producer -- and most likely the guy who decides what finish
gets applied to the wood), not Norm. There is one guy on the crew who helps
Norm but his duties are mainly involve helping to set up the tools and
keeping the workshop clean.
Lee
--
To e-mail, replace "bucketofspam" with "dleegordon"
_________________________________
Lee Gordon
http://www.leegordonproductions.com
Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> "CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> > True but at least he admits it.
>> >
>> > "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> > news:[email protected]...
>> >>
>> >> Actually Norm is pretty darn good up until it comes to finishing,
>> >> IMHO.
>>
>>
>> IMHO a decent finish is not hard to achieve. I wonder if it is
>> simply the time period that he is going for.
>> Surely Norm has the ability. Perhaps he simply tries to copy
>> furniture store finishes. :~)
>
> Does he mention the brand names of the finishes he uses?
>
Minwhacks is a sponsor....
"Pete C." <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
>
> There are certainly people out there that can run rings around him in
> the furniture / cabinetry world, however they don't have TV shows
> probably due in large part to their projects taking months to complete
> rather than the perhaps one week of Norm's typical projects.
> Additionally Norm's projects and his techniques are generally within
> reach of the capabilities of a committed weekend woodworker.
>
If you look at the bottom of his "New Yankee Workshop Web Cam" page
(http://www.newyankee.com/yankeecam.php), he has a list of this season's
projects that shows the shooting dates. Apart from the Router Workshop
and a Storage Shed (3 days each), all of the projects were shot in two
days.
They've put up a slideshow for each day of shooting (nearly 600
pictures/day!) -- among other things, it shows how much downtime they
have during the shooting. There are a *lot* of shots of Norm & what must
be the producer just standing around the set.
--
I was punching a text message into my | Reed Snellenberger
phone yesterday and thought, "they need | GPG KeyID: 5A978843
to make a phone that you can just talk | rsnellenberger
into." Major Thomb | -at-houston.rr.com
"Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
>
> As for Nahm, I cringe everytime I hear that lawyer mandated safety
> lecture. Since he does all kinds of things that I would never do
> safety wise. He just LOVES to run things through the tablesaw and
> router table with his fingers VERY close to some rapidly spinning
> metal.
>
I find it instructive to look at his fingers when they show a close-up of
stuff he's holding. Purple finger nails, band-aides, and healing cuts.
He's definitly not superman.
"Matt Stachoni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 19:44:08 -0800, David <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>> He has stated on the show that he is not very good with finishes.
>>> Everyone's
>>> got a weak spot.
>
>>How true--my weakness is chocolate.
>
> Mine too - plus, that stuff is damned hard to wipe off my furniture
> pieces.
>
> - Matt
Not if it's got poly on it first....
Gary
On Wed, 1 Mar 2006 07:44:10 -0700, "GeeDubb" <[email protected]>
>>>How true--my weakness is chocolate.
>> Mine too - plus, that stuff is damned hard to wipe off my furniture
>> pieces.
>Not if it's got poly on it first....
Do I hear the makings of a sad shop story there? :)
Matt
"Locutus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> I love watching NYWS and TOH, but it seems like any references to him on
> here are people making fun of him. Is Norm not as good as we are lead to
> believe?
Sure, I think Norm is great at what he does. I don't make fun of him, he's
better at what he builds than I am. And I do record his shows every
Saturday, but only for the purpose of giving me ideas for my own projects.
If I was going to build something that Norm has built, I'd modify it for my
use. As well, I've reached the point where I wouldn't need his plans, just
the video would be sufficient for me to design for myself.
"B a r r y" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
>> And how about his $800 pocket-hole machine?
>
> Which works exactly like the $50 pocket hole jigs, only faster.
From what I have heard by a user, the "faster" part may be debatable.
In article <[email protected]>,
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > True but at least he admits it.
> >
> > "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >>
> >> Actually Norm is pretty darn good up until it comes to finishing, IMHO.
>
>
> IMHO a decent finish is not hard to achieve. I wonder if it is simply the
> time period that he is going for.
> Surely Norm has the ability. Perhaps he simply tries to copy furniture
> store finishes. :~)
Does he mention the brand names of the finishes he uses?
In article <[email protected]>, "Pete C." <[email protected]> wrote:
> The time
> spent developing the plan and building the prototype. The shooting days
> are just the time spent building it again on camera.
Exactly. All the grunt work is done by staff. Norm is not in that shop for more
than 4 hours per episode... he spends the rest of his time in first class
lounges at airports. He's a star.
In article <[email protected]>,
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > In article <[email protected]>,
>
> >
> > Does he mention the brand names of the finishes he uses?
>
> IIRC David Marks uses a disguised General Finishes can.
>
> Norm, probably uses Miniwax which would explain a lot.
Over the years, I have developed a love/hate relationship with Minwax products.
Some of their stains I liked using, their standard poly is so-so..but I think
their latex clear is every bit as nice as Benjamin Moore's..which is pretty darn
good stuff.
I would think that as Minwax is a NYWS sponsor, they'd pay a lot more attention
to the finishing aspect. After all, it is THE single deciding step whether you
end up looking good or sucking big time.
Maybe they are selling to the general public concentrating on How Fast This Shit
Goes On?
There are no amateurs running Norm's show..there has to be a reason why they
treat the finishing the way they do.
*shrugs* dunno...
Locutus wrote:
> I love watching NYWS and TOH, but it seems like any references to him on
> here are people making fun of him. Is Norm not as good as we are lead to
> believe?
One of the reasons I got into woodworking was watching Norm work on
projects. I realized at the time that I'd never have all of the tools
that appear on the shows, but I was OK with that.
I'm not sure if half the darts thrown in this group at him are just tool
envy, but I suspect there's a bit of that. The underwriters have a
showcase for their fancy tools, we get a woodworking show in return. No
underwriters, no show. So what if he has a wide belt sander that's more
expensive than many people's cars?
The other perennial targets are his use of the brad nailer, and the
finishes. Apparently, he's unholy for not using clamps alone. Whatever
works for him, I guess. And since I didn't buy the cherry or walnut he
uses on his projects, I don't see it as a cardinal sin when he slathers
some thick dark finish on them.
I guess the final conclusion is that I can't get too worked up about a
TV show. I enjoy watching The New Yankee Workshop, I hope they continue
shooting new episodes.
-jav
On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 04:55:46 GMT, Reed Snellenberger
<[email protected]> wrote:
>If you look at the bottom of his "New Yankee Workshop Web Cam" page
>(http://www.newyankee.com/yankeecam.php), he has a list of this season's
>projects that shows the shooting dates. Apart from the Router Workshop
>and a Storage Shed (3 days each), all of the projects were shot in two
>days.
The one thing I never understood, especially about his brad-fetish is
that people keep saying he's only got so much time. Um... they can
put it in clamps and turn off the camera, you know. Glue doesn't take
that much time to dry.
He talks funny !
Wear gonna bowar a 1/2 nitch hooe in this baward.
"Locutus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I love watching NYWS and TOH, but it seems like any references to him on
> here are people making fun of him. Is Norm not as good as we are lead to
> believe?
>
>
"Locutus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I love watching NYWS and TOH, but it seems like any references to him on
>here are people making fun of him. Is Norm not as good as we are lead to
>believe?
Actually Norm is pretty darn good up until it comes to finishing, IMHO.
He has stated on the show that he is not very good with finishes. Everyone's
got a weak spot.
"Josh" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> The thing I don't like is when he does stuff with equipment that the
> majority of use will never have. I don't think there are too many
> people here who have a molding cutter with custom laser-cut knives for
> each project. And how about his $800 pocket-hole machine?
>
> That being said, he's still pretty damned good, and he was making nice
> stuff long before he got all these nice gizmos and gadgets. Plus, I
> suppose there is some merit to showing us what's out there for the
> state-of-the-art and letting us see how much easier it can make our
> lives.
>
> As far as his finishes go, I'd guess that he's trying to cram a project
> into a couple days of cutting and assembly and only a couple more days
> of finish time. A really nice finish might take him a couple of weeks,
> and he probably doesn't have that kind of time for a given project.
>
> > I love watching NYWS and TOH, but it seems like any references to him on
> > here are people making fun of him. Is Norm not as good as we are lead to
> > believe?
>
"Brian Henderson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 25 Apr 2006 02:54:51 GMT, "Charley" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> What Norm has really accomplished with his shows is to get a huge number
>> of
>>people interested in woodworking and furniture making who probably would
>>never have attempted it if they hadn't watched Norm do it. Watching him
>>makes people say to themselves "I could do that", and then many of them
>>actually have. With the large number of high schools discontinuing their
>>shop classes in recent years, the number of people even interested in
>>doing
>>woodworking would have been falling significantly faster than it is if it
>>wasn't for Norm. He is a very good teacher and he shows machining and
>>assembly steps well enough for people to actually learn how to do it by
>>just
>>watching his shows. I don't care if he's not perfect, he's a hero in my
>>mind
>>for what he's done for the woodworking public and for increasing interest
>>in
>>woodworking among our young generation, many of whom might not have ever
>>picked up a tool and built something out of wood if it wasn't for Norm. We
>>need him and more like him.
>
> That's right, that's exactly what he is. He's the guy that gets
> people who have never held a hammer to think they could do what he
> does. But it doesn't take too long after you've got that hammer in
> your hand to realize that what Norm does isn't what you should be
> striving for. He's like the high school English teacher when you're
> trying to be a professional novelist. He'll get you started, but it
> doesn't take too long before you outgrow him and have to move on.
I watched him for the first time 18 years ago. I had a bit of a history
with tools, but I credit him for inspiring me. Even still I long to be able
to build what he builds.
> The thing is, the mistakes that Norm makes, he could EASILY do better.
Can you give some examples, please? I watch his show and I see little if
anything wrong with what he does. I read Fine Woodworking, I lurk here, I
converse with woodworkers I know and I spend my own time and money working
wood. Am I retarded?
> If you're trying to show beginners how to do things, you don't show
> them how to do it easy and take shortcuts, you show them how to do it
> right the first time. I don't think he's really quite sure what his
> audience is. He produces servicable work, sure, but what he makes is
> more suited to the weekend handyman with a couple of power tools, but
> how he does it seems aimed at the dedicated craftsman with a huge
> budget for every power tool under the sun. And the wood he uses seems
> aimed at high-end artists who cringe when he paints over antique pine.
> It seems to me that he's trying to be all things to all people and
> isn't doing any of it particularly well.
I admit I don't like it when he stains and glazes a large cherry piece of
furniture, but I also admit that I usually like how it looks when he's done.
I won't do it that way, but I still think he does a good job.
I would also like to know how come he never seems to inflict all the tearout
I do when he's milling with power tools. Even with a freshly sharpened
blade I have to take the time (and lots of it) to score the fibres on a
piece that's going to show. I use backer boards and the whole bit, but I
never seem to be able to measure up to Norm's lofty standard.
If he's not so good, how did YOU get beyond him?
- Owen -
"David Hannu" wrote
> Smaug Ichorfang <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I find it instructive to look at his fingers when they show a close-up of
>> stuff he's holding. Purple finger nails, band-aides, and healing cuts.
>> He's definitly not superman.
>
> At least he hasn't bled all over a project like Roy Underhill does on a
> regular basis. :)
>
>
How can you tell?
The stain job he does would probably cover up the blood quite nicely.
On Tue, 25 Apr 2006 02:54:51 GMT, "Charley" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> What Norm has really accomplished with his shows is to get a huge number of
>people interested in woodworking and furniture making who probably would
>never have attempted it if they hadn't watched Norm do it. Watching him
>makes people say to themselves "I could do that", and then many of them
>actually have. With the large number of high schools discontinuing their
>shop classes in recent years, the number of people even interested in doing
>woodworking would have been falling significantly faster than it is if it
>wasn't for Norm. He is a very good teacher and he shows machining and
>assembly steps well enough for people to actually learn how to do it by just
>watching his shows. I don't care if he's not perfect, he's a hero in my mind
>for what he's done for the woodworking public and for increasing interest in
>woodworking among our young generation, many of whom might not have ever
>picked up a tool and built something out of wood if it wasn't for Norm. We
>need him and more like him.
That's right, that's exactly what he is. He's the guy that gets
people who have never held a hammer to think they could do what he
does. But it doesn't take too long after you've got that hammer in
your hand to realize that what Norm does isn't what you should be
striving for. He's like the high school English teacher when you're
trying to be a professional novelist. He'll get you started, but it
doesn't take too long before you outgrow him and have to move on.
The thing is, the mistakes that Norm makes, he could EASILY do better.
If you're trying to show beginners how to do things, you don't show
them how to do it easy and take shortcuts, you show them how to do it
right the first time. I don't think he's really quite sure what his
audience is. He produces servicable work, sure, but what he makes is
more suited to the weekend handyman with a couple of power tools, but
how he does it seems aimed at the dedicated craftsman with a huge
budget for every power tool under the sun. And the wood he uses seems
aimed at high-end artists who cringe when he paints over antique pine.
It seems to me that he's trying to be all things to all people and
isn't doing any of it particularly well.
<<He may have the $800 production pocket hole machine, but you can get the
$20 Kregg pocket hole jig and do the same thing or spring for the $120
Kregg kit which works beautifully and is just not as fast for production
use. >>
But on various occasions Norm has demonstrated all of those options. While
we marvel at the coolness of his most elaborate tools (none any more
unobtainable, I might ad, than David J Marks' multi-router or 20" jointer),
and they are perhaps freshest in our memories, Norm will often show the use
of the cheapest Kreg jig or or even even take a stab at freehanding.
Lee
--
To e-mail, replace "bucketofspam" with "dleegordon"
_________________________________
Lee Gordon
http://www.leegordonproductions.com
"Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sat, 04 Mar 2006 13:30:23 GMT, "Leon" <[email protected]>
>>
> ... or take sounds away. It's draw-ERS folks, not draws, and when I read
> it car has an "r" in it, not a "w" :-)
>
Its funny, send for measured "drawerings" of a chest of "draws". And that
garden expert on TOH and Ask TOH.... I often have to pause, back up, mute
to see the caption, and play my DVR forward again to understand what he is
saying. Let's take a Wok to the Pock to see if the Goden needs Waddur.
And speaking of drawers, I and I am not the greatest speller, I have seen
drawers spelled draws repeatedly.
Charley wrote:
> Norm isn't perfect, but some of the characters here seem to think that they
> are. In my opinion, Norm is a very qualified woodworker and does a pretty
> fine job of building many more projects than a lot of the characters that
> seem to like bashing him on this newsgroup have ever done. So what if he
> doesn't make every joint perfect or finish every project to the quality
> level that some here seem to think is perfect in their minds.
>
> What Norm has really accomplished with his shows is to get a huge number of
> people interested in woodworking and furniture making who probably would
> never have attempted it if they hadn't watched Norm do it. Watching him
> makes people say to themselves "I could do that", and then many of them
> actually have. With the large number of high schools discontinuing their
> shop classes in recent years, the number of people even interested in doing
> woodworking would have been falling significantly faster than it is if it
> wasn't for Norm. He is a very good teacher and he shows machining and
> assembly steps well enough for people to actually learn how to do it by just
> watching his shows. I don't care if he's not perfect, he's a hero in my mind
> for what he's done for the woodworking public and for increasing interest in
> woodworking among our young generation, many of whom might not have ever
> picked up a tool and built something out of wood if it wasn't for Norm. We
> need him and more like him.
>
Watching the NYW was what got me started!!
Sarge
On Thu, 2 Mar 2006 13:05:07 -0500, "Lee Michaels"
<leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> wrote:
> And their imprecise fence setups are amazing to watch too. Loosen and
>hit with your fist.
I've never seen them hit it with their fist; they always use their
"fine adjusting tool" (a hammer), which actually is capable of a wide
range of incremental impact forces. I thought it hilarious the first
time I heard it several years ago and still find it amusing. It's also
extremely effective.
In actuality, they are far more precise in their setups than a lot of
"experts" are--as the elder points out, "ol' Bob don't measure much."
They gauge most of their setups on actual tool and/or material
dimensions, or gauge blocks, and rarely use any sort of measuring
device, which could lead to memory or interpretive error.
>As for Nahm... He just LOVES to run things through the tablesaw
>and router table with his fingers VERY close to some rapidly spinning metal.
Having watched every episode several times, I feel compelled to point
out that the magic of long (telephoto) lenses often makes his fingers
appear much closer to the blade than they actually are. If one is
unaware of the foreshortening effects of such lenses it is easy to get
the impression the fingers are dangerously close, when in reality,
they are every bit as far away as you or I would have them.
--
LRod
Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999
http://www.woodbutcher.net
Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997
email addy de-spam-ified due to 1,000 spams per month.
If you can't figure out how to use it, I probably wouldn't
care to correspond with you anyway.
"Fly-by-Night CC" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> What time crunch is he under? You really don't believe he completes his
> project in 27 minutes, do you?
Ah that really made me laugh... Thanks!
Locutus wrote:
> I love watching NYWS and TOH, but it seems like any references to him on
> here are people making fun of him. Is Norm not as good as we are lead to
> believe?
>
>
Q: How many WRECKers does it take to change a lightbulb?
A: Eight -
1 to complain about Norm's lousy WWing skills
1 to complain that you're using the wrong tools
1 to make fun of anything Craftsman
1 to say "I could do it better/faster if I really wanted to"
1 to blame Bush because the bulb burned out in the first place
1 to argue that no external intelligence is necessary to change the bulb
1 to pine for Phully to come back and change the bulb for us
1 to curse anyone who dares to suggest the bulb actually needs replacing
In the end, someone else has to change the bulb.
I've watched Norm for years and even read one of his books. He is a
master craftsman. This doesn't mean that I like everything he makes,
it means he knows what he's doing. People confuse skill and style. The
first is inarguable, the second is always a matter of opinion.
Don't let the Nabobs Of Negativity influence your interest in his (or any
other craftsman's) work.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk [email protected]
PGP Key: http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/
On Thu, 2 Mar 2006 13:05:07 -0500, "Lee Michaels"
<leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> wrote:
>As for Nahm, I cringe everytime I hear that lawyer mandated safety lecture.
>Since he does all kinds of things that I would never do safety wise. He
>just LOVES to run things through the tablesaw and router table with his
>fingers VERY close to some rapidly spinning metal.
Don't you love that? Every time I'm watching Norm and he goes into
his "Let's take a moment to talk about shop safety", she always adds
"And watch you ignore it all."
On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 10:36:10 -0500, Javier <[email protected]>
wrote:
>I'm not sure if half the darts thrown in this group at him are just tool
>envy, but I suspect there's a bit of that. The underwriters have a
>showcase for their fancy tools, we get a woodworking show in return. No
>underwriters, no show. So what if he has a wide belt sander that's more
>expensive than many people's cars?
I think you're missing the point. It's not the fact that Norm uses
all power tools, it's the fact that he's producing a show aimed mainly
at beginners who won't have access to those tools. There's nothing
wrong with the tools, but I think there's something questionable about
suggesting that woodworking can't be done without them. I think it's
going to drive some people on a budget away from the hobby, just
because it gives the impression you need a huge, well-stocked workshop
to do anything.
>The other perennial targets are his use of the brad nailer, and the
>finishes. Apparently, he's unholy for not using clamps alone. Whatever
>works for him, I guess. And since I didn't buy the cherry or walnut he
>uses on his projects, I don't see it as a cardinal sin when he slathers
>some thick dark finish on them.
There's a right way and a wrong way to do things. When Norm is
shooting brads into face frames where they'll be very visible in the
end, that's the wrong way. Otherwise, I don't care what he does with
them. There's a time and a place for every tool, but no tool that
deserves to be used in every place and every time.
As far as the finishing, he's supposed to be showing how to do good
work. If he hasn't learned how to finish, and in all the years he's
been doing this, he should have learned something, then he shouldn't
try showing it on TV. Have his staffers do the finishing and show the
completed project at the end. It does no good to have beginning
woodworkers look at his finishing techniques and say "Yuck".
>I guess the final conclusion is that I can't get too worked up about a
>TV show. I enjoy watching The New Yankee Workshop, I hope they continue
>shooting new episodes.
I don't know of anyone getting worked up over it, but people are
pointing out where a good show can, and should, be better. Is there
something wrong with suggesting that there is room for improvement?
Norm is a fantastic guy in person, I've met him a couple times and
he's the nicest guy you'd ever want to meet, I just wish he'd be able
to correct a couple things on his TV show.
On 28 Feb 2006 14:19:49 -0800, "Josh" <[email protected]> wrote:
>The thing I don't like is when he does stuff with equipment that the
>majority of use will never have. I don't think there are too many
>people here who have a molding cutter with custom laser-cut knives for
>each project. And how about his $800 pocket-hole machine?
>
He has that stuff because the underwriters want it seen on the show.
In PBS you can't have sponsors with ads but you can have underwriters
who generally have an extremely short identification clip at the
beginning and end and then have to rely on him using the stuff on the
show to get it seen.
I think he (and the producer) does a good job of picking projects that
hit a middle ground in degree of difficulty. And the finishing is
usually just an afterthought that takes up about 20 seconds at the end
of the show. You could do a whole show to put a first class exotic
finish on a piece.
And off the show in person he is a genuinely nice guy.
Frank
<<My problem with Norm's show is watching him push piece after piece through
his machines. How about cutting those parts of the show and a little more
on setup etc.>>
I agree that I'd like to see Norm do some of the setups but he has to make a
few cuts on TV. Otherwise it would look like the pieces just appeared by
magic. At least Norm generally makes only one demonstation cut per
component. His way is a lot better than the Router Guys who cut every dado,
every rabbet, every tongue and every groove on every piece of every project.
That wouldn't be so bad if you could smell the sawdust.
Lee
--
To e-mail, replace "bucketofspam" with "dleegordon"
_________________________________
Lee Gordon
http://www.leegordonproductions.com
True but at least he admits it.
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Actually Norm is pretty darn good up until it comes to finishing, IMHO.
>
>
In article <[email protected]>,
Richard Clements <[email protected]> wrote:
> I don't like the fact that he uses brads all the time, but
> he is on a time crunch, he trends to over complicate things as well.
What time crunch is he under? You really don't believe he completes his
project in 27 minutes, do you? They could certainly allow the glue to
dry the proper amount of time without the brad nailer - he often sets
tabletop glue-ups on the floor leaning against his drill press until
"tomorrow morning" - so brad-less gluing and editing the video ought to
work just fine for other aspects of assembly as well.
--
Owen Lowe
The Fly-by-Night Copper Company
__________
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
Corporate States of America and to the
Republicans for which it stands, one nation,
under debt, easily divisible, with liberty
and justice for oil."
- Wiley Miller, Non Sequitur, 1/24/05
In article <[email protected]>,
LRod <[email protected]> wrote:
> In a recent episode, he (Roger Cook, by the way) was helping a gal
> with a sprinkler and had her digging a hole. The first shovelful she
> tossed on the grass and he said, "whoa, don't put it on the grass!"
>
> She said, "that's where you told me to put it; on the top."
>
> He said, "no, I said put it over here on the top." (pointing to the
> blue tarp nearby)
>
> I've seen that episode two or three times and replayed it a couple
> more and I'd swear he said "top" too.
That was a funny bit of ATOH footage. (I think, btw, that the spelling
for what he was talking about - as opposed to what she thought he was
saying - would be "tawp".)
--
Owen Lowe
The Fly-by-Night Copper Company
__________
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
Corporate States of America and to the
Republicans for which it stands, one nation,
under debt, easily divisible, with liberty
and justice for oil."
- Wiley Miller, Non Sequitur, 1/24/05
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Over the years, I have developed a love/hate relationship with Minwax
> products.
> Some of their stains I liked using, their standard poly is so-so..but I
> think
> their latex clear is every bit as nice as Benjamin Moore's..which is
> pretty darn
> good stuff.
I like the Minwax finishing wax. It is a great screw lube. I started off
using the "good stuff" in the beginning and on occasion used what the
customer brought me from a hardware store or the Borg. Typically it was a
Minwax stain and typically every other piece had spots that would not accept
the stain. Oddly my own stain would cover the spot. I learned to use my
stain in these spots after sanding and scraping the spot did not help the
Minwax stick.
> I would think that as Minwax is a NYWS sponsor, they'd pay a lot more
> attention
> to the finishing aspect. After all, it is THE single deciding step whether
> you
> end up looking good or sucking big time.
One would think that but that guy on WoodWorking that makes Norm look like
the Rembrandt of furniture builders by comparison, uses a lot of Miniwax
products. He is the one that does not know that a SCMS is not a RAS and, I
swear, must use 60 grit sand paper against the grain as his final touch
before applying stain. I saw Norm visit him at the Minwax facility while
they talked about stains. That is probably the whole problem.
> Maybe they are selling to the general public concentrating on How Fast
> This Shit
> Goes On?
Well I think they are looking for volume and realize that for the most part
they don't have many pro's using their product as a first choice. If you
have never heard of the good brands and only stained a project or 2 in your
life time how are you going to know there are better products or where to
get them when a Borg is close by.
>
> There are no amateurs running Norm's show..there has to be a reason why
> they
> treat the finishing the way they do.
Well there are many many people out there that like that look. Furniture
stores are loaded up with the stuff with similar finishes. I have built
beautiful pieces for customers and they loved the finish and then turn
around and show me their favorite "this or that" and I would believe you if
you told me that the surface was Formica. Typically you see no grain and
most of the time I don't know if it is wood or painted MDF. LOL
> *shrugs* dunno...
Yeah.
On Thu, 11 May 2006 15:17:31 -0400, "Owen Lawrence"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Can you give some examples, please? I watch his show and I see little if
>anything wrong with what he does. I read Fine Woodworking, I lurk here, I
>converse with woodworkers I know and I spend my own time and money working
>wood. Am I retarded?
The same thing everyone complains about. His hideous finishes, his
full-auto brad nailer, etc. Technically, what he builds is certainly
credible and I'm never going to fault him on his ability to build and
design, he comes up with some really nice stuff. There are just a lot
of points when you stare at the TV going "why in the world is he doing
it like that?"
>If he's not so good, how did YOU get beyond him?
Experience and not being limited by what he does. Once you learn what
a clamp is, you stop putting brads through face frames. Once you
learn how to stain and finish, especially once you get working on a
HVLP system, you stop thinking that ugly paint is the way to go. Now
granted, Norm is usually building simple household-style items, not
fine furniture and doesn't pretend that he is, but it's when people
start moving beyond simple cabinets and the like and into projects
that take an artistic bent that they've outgrown Norm.
For what Norm does, he's fine, but Norm is certainly not the
end-all-be-all of what woodworking can be or is.
"Pete C." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Reed Snellenberger wrote:
>
> Don't forget the non shooting days related to a given project. The time
> spent developing the plan and building the prototype. The shooting days
> are just the time spent building it again on camera.
>
> Pete C.
Considering that, The cutting scenes could easily be the ones of him when
was building the prototype.
On Sat, 04 Mar 2006 09:50:21 -0700, Mark & Juanita
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
> ... or take sounds away. It's draw-ERS folks, not draws, and when I read
>it car has an "r" in it, not a "w" :-)
>
Actually, as you move down to Southern New England (East Westchester
County to Charlie), we sound less like Norm, and more like Tony
Soprano and Gene Simmons.
So yes, Norm does talk funny, but not as funny as Texans. <G>
Barry
Amen
On Tue, 25 Apr 2006 02:54:51 GMT, "Charley" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Norm isn't perfect, but some of the characters here seem to think that they
>are. In my opinion, Norm is a very qualified woodworker and does a pretty
>fine job of building many more projects than a lot of the characters that
>seem to like bashing him on this newsgroup have ever done. So what if he
>doesn't make every joint perfect or finish every project to the quality
>level that some here seem to think is perfect in their minds.
>
> What Norm has really accomplished with his shows is to get a huge number of
>people interested in woodworking and furniture making who probably would
>never have attempted it if they hadn't watched Norm do it. Watching him
>makes people say to themselves "I could do that", and then many of them
>actually have. With the large number of high schools discontinuing their
>shop classes in recent years, the number of people even interested in doing
>woodworking would have been falling significantly faster than it is if it
>wasn't for Norm. He is a very good teacher and he shows machining and
>assembly steps well enough for people to actually learn how to do it by just
>watching his shows. I don't care if he's not perfect, he's a hero in my mind
>for what he's done for the woodworking public and for increasing interest in
>woodworking among our young generation, many of whom might not have ever
>picked up a tool and built something out of wood if it wasn't for Norm. We
>need him and more like him.
On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 19:44:08 -0800, David <[email protected]> wrote:
>> He has stated on the show that he is not very good with finishes. Everyone's
>> got a weak spot.
>How true--my weakness is chocolate.
Mine too - plus, that stuff is damned hard to wipe off my furniture
pieces.
- Matt
On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 21:01:32 GMT, "Leon"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Dang it Brian... does that mean I am gunna have to stop watching one? LOL
Nope, both shows have different things to offer, just like Popular
Woodworking and Fine Woodworking have different things to offer. Both
are good, in their own way.
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Locutus wrote:
>> Is Norm not as good as we are lead to believe?
>
> Well, that all depends on what you've been led to believe.
>
> If you believe Norm Abram is a hard-working, efficient woodworker with
> a knack for choosing appealing projects and a lot of good old carpentry
> know-how, you're right.
>
> If you believe Norm is acknowledged as one of the woodworking greats of
> all time, wrong. He's not in the same league as Krenov, Maloof, Frid,
> et al., and he would probably be the first to admit it.
>
> If you believe Norm has done a great deal to increase the popular
> appeal and accessibility of woodworking, right.
>
> If you believe Norm is a flawless role model for woodworking
> craftsmanship, wrong.
>
> If you believe that luck, connections, personality, and perseverance
> (not necessarily raw talent) are the secrets of Norm's success as a
> celebrity woodworker, right.
>
> If you think that "Master Carpenter" is some kind of hard-earned,
> recognized distinction, wrong. (Russ Morash, the producer of TOH and
> NYW, made up the title).
>
> JMHO, of course.
I agree with most of what you wrote but I would also add that Krenov,
Maloof, Frid, et al., may not be in the same league as Norm when it comes to
standard carpentry. One has to remember Norm is a carpenter and can
probably do things the "artist" would have trouble doing.
again...JMHO, of course
Gary