My wife bought a lobster trap at a garage sale and wants me to make an Ipe
top for it. (She also wants me to rebuild our deck, but wants to see what
ipe is like before she lets me use it; a table top seemed a good trial.)
I figure I could glue it up and attach it like a table top, or fasten the
board with a space between them like a deck. Any compelling reasons to do
it one way or the other?
Guy at the lumber yard says that ipe is extremely stable and won't require
as big a space as PT. He also thought that since it is summer, the wood is
probably as expanded as it will ever be, so I could probably build it like a
deck, but without any space. Anyone tried it that way?
Thanks
On Jul 4, 9:57 am, "Wade Lippman" <[email protected]> wrote:
> My wife bought a lobster trap at a garage sale and wants me to make an Ipe
> top for it. (She also wants me to rebuild our deck, but wants to see what
> ipe is like before she lets me use it; a table top seemed a good trial.)
>
> I figure I could glue it up and attach it like a table top, or fasten the
> board with a space between them like a deck. Any compelling reasons to do
> it one way or the other?
>
> Guy at the lumber yard says that ipe is extremely stable and won't require
> as big a space as PT. He also thought that since it is summer, the wood is
> probably as expanded as it will ever be, so I could probably build it like a
> deck, but without any space. Anyone tried it that way?
>
> Thanks
I did an 18x20 deck with Ipe that is now 5-6 years old ....if you want
photos let me know. I did one coat with $50 a gallon specialty
formula and it only lasted a few months. Wife isn't so crazy about
the patina but it still looks great and certainly will last. Never
saw hair-like splinters but for a while the kids did get some in their
feet...this encouraged them to wear shoes anyway. I never sanded it.
Very stable but very very heavy. I will make benches out of 1x4 I
still have (just the seat and back) but if any table top is made it
will be small like a coffee table. A full sized deck table top would
probably weigh enough that your bracing underneath would be too
expensive. I seek an outdoor stain and poly that will keep the
color...I think I ran across one once.
R
Albany NY area
On Jul 7, 1:20 pm, Steve knight <[email protected]> wrote:
> >Interesting, the acetone wipe works for teak, wonder why not IPE?
>
> >Anyway, most of the time I just give the acetone wipe lip service.
>
> it works ok but the joint is better without it. it is one of the urban
> myths of woodworking. one of the mags even tested it and found the
> same thing I did the joint was not as strong when it was used. not a
> huge difference only a small one.
I can't agree with your conclusion, Steve. I'm not sure which
magazine you're referring to, but if you're talking about epoxy,
there's no better source of information than the Gougeoun Brothers,
makers of West System epoxy.
http://www.westsystem.com
The West System user manual, generally considered the bible of boat
building and epoxy construction, has this to say on the subject:
"Teak/oily woods - Wipe with acetone 15 minutes before coating.
Solvent removes the oil at the surface and allows epoxy to penetrate.
Be sure solvent has evaporated before coating."
That only makes sense. You're only concerned with the ~1/16" depth of
wood that will be bonded. You'd mentioned in an earlier post in this
thread that the acetone drew the oils to the surface, and that it was
better to just bond the freshly milled/sanded surface. A freshly
milled surface has as much oil as anywhere in the wood. How could the
acetone increase the oil at the surface? That's saying that the
acetone concentrates the oil somehow, and, well, that just doesn't
happen. Sanding it won't appreciably affect the oil content and is
necessary with or without the acetone.
West also has a new adhesive coming out that deals with this exact
problem.
http://www.gougeonbrothers.com/G-flex/description.html
I haven't gotten my hands on any yet, but I plan to test it out
shortly.
R
On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 21:46:28 GMT, Lew Hodgett
<[email protected]> wrote:
>RE: IPE
>
>Poor but low cost substitute for Thai teak.
>
>People try, but it just doesn't cut it in a marine application.
>
>Probably not very good for outdoor furniture either.
>
I bet it outlasts teak. it may not look as nice but it has far more
oil and is past weather proof. it is far more durable too.
"edangell" <edangellatcomcastdotnet> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Wade Lippman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> My wife bought a lobster trap at a garage sale and wants me to make an
>> Ipe top for it. (She also wants me to rebuild our deck, but wants to see
>> what ipe is like before she lets me use it; a table top seemed a good
>> trial.)
>> >>>
> Wade,
> I would encourage you to rethink the use of Ipe. I spent a ton of money
> and time to build a beautiful table and benches for my deck using Ipe, and
> it looks like crap. Ipe is so dense that it will not take any finish that
> will last for more than a few months.. Even when left to go silvery, the
> Ipe gets small hair like splinters that are terrible to deal with. One
> of my local lumber yards stopped carrying it because of so many
> complaints. Send me your email address and I'll send pictures of the
> disaster.
>
> Ed Angell
Interesting to know. I have built 6 different Ipe out door projects in the
last 6 years and none of them have splintered at all. I have however not
applied any type of finish to any of them. Perhaps the finish is causing
the grain to raise a bit in your case.
>Interesting, the acetone wipe works for teak, wonder why not IPE?
>
>Anyway, most of the time I just give the acetone wipe lip service.
>
>
it works ok but the joint is better without it. it is one of the urban
myths of woodworking. one of the mags even tested it and found the
same thing I did the joint was not as strong when it was used. not a
huge difference only a small one.
>Wipe the surfaces with acetone, then scuff up the IPE surface with a
>24 grit right angle sander, then wet out the surfaces with some
>laminating epoxy which you let set until tacky, then butter on some
>epoxy thickened with micro-balloons to the tacky surfaces.
>
acetone actually draws oil to the surface. better to jsut freshly
mill/sand the surface.
"Steve knight" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
>>Thanks for the tip Steve.
>>
>
> remember it may need a day or two or three if the joint can't get much
> air. but the good part is the stuff lasts in a tube open for months.
> you can get it in thin formulas so it flows or thick. but the stuff
> sticks like crazy. myself I think a flexible glue works better then a
> brittle one for such bonding.
> that and using fully dry ipe helps. the decking is seldom dry.
>
All of my applications that have been glued have been out door applications
with old left over scraps. Polyurethane simply let go.
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> RE: IPE
>
> Poor but low cost substitute for Thai teak.
>
> People try, but it just doesn't cut it in a marine application.
It would probably sink a boat. ;~)
>
> Probably not very good for outdoor furniture either.
I have had pretty good luck with it when redo'n park benches.
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Wade Lippman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> My wife bought a lobster trap at a garage sale and wants me to make an
>> Ipe top for it. (She also wants me to rebuild our deck, but wants to see
>> what ipe is like before she lets me use it; a table top seemed a good
>> trial.)
>>
>> I figure I could glue it up and attach it like a table top, or fasten the
>> board with a space between them like a deck. Any compelling reasons to
>> do it one way or the other?
>
> I have yet to find a glue that will work with Ipe outdoors. I have not
> used Epoxe but would highly recomend it if you are going to glue Ipe.
> Also wipe down the joint with acetone before glueing.
> I think that leaving a space between the boards may be the more successful
> route to take.
>
>
>> Guy at the lumber yard says that ipe is extremely stable and won't
>> require as big a space as PT. He also thought that since it is summer,
>> the wood is probably as expanded as it will ever be, so I could probably
>> build it like a deck, but without any space. Anyone tried it that way?
>
> Ipe is stable but does move some. I would not count on it expanding much
> at all.
> I would recommend buying the Ipe Decking and perhaps not leaving any space
> between the joints.
> Ipe is initially very dark brown but will fade to a silvery gray if
> exposed to sunlight.
> Ipe does not naturally splinter like PT does. You will get splintery
> edges when you cut it but light sanding will take care of that. Use a
> sharp carbide blade when cutting, Ipe is roughly 2.5 times harder than Oak
> and is in the iron wood family. If you plane it be aware that it emits a
> normal looking brown saw dust and a VERY FINE Yellowy Green powder.
> Citrus based cleaners and body sweat mixed with this dust will produce
> BLOOD RED results. The first few times that I worked with Ipe I thought I
> was bleeding to death. ;~)
>
> Take a look here for some recommendations when installing out doors.
>
> http://www.diamonddecking.com/guide.htm
>
I wasn't aware the ends had to be sealed; though I noticed they were on the
two pieces I bought. Thanks.
"Wade Lippman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> My wife bought a lobster trap at a garage sale and wants me to make an Ipe
> top for it. (She also wants me to rebuild our deck, but wants to see what
> ipe is like before she lets me use it; a table top seemed a good trial.)
> >>>
Wade,
I would encourage you to rethink the use of Ipe. I spent a ton of money and
time to build a beautiful table and benches for my deck using Ipe, and it
looks like crap. Ipe is so dense that it will not take any finish that will
last for more than a few months.. Even when left to go silvery, the Ipe
gets small hair like splinters that are terrible to deal with. One of my
local lumber yards stopped carrying it because of so many complaints. Send
me your email address and I'll send pictures of the disaster.
Ed Angell
>Thanks for the tip Steve.
>
remember it may need a day or two or three if the joint can't get much
air. but the good part is the stuff lasts in a tube open for months.
you can get it in thin formulas so it flows or thick. but the stuff
sticks like crazy. myself I think a flexible glue works better then a
brittle one for such bonding.
that and using fully dry ipe helps. the decking is seldom dry.
Steve knight wrote:
>
> I bet it outlasts teak. it may not look as nice but it has far more
> oil and is past weather proof. it is far more durable too.
What a lot of people don't realize is that teak decks on a boat are to
be cleaned with saltwater and a SOFT bristle brush.
They turn silver and help provide decent footing when the decks are wet.
Far too many "yachtie" applications try to force teak into very bad
applications, IMHO.
Lew
Steve knight wrote:
>
> acetone actually draws oil to the surface. better to jsut freshly
> mill/sand the surface.
Interesting, the acetone wipe works for teak, wonder why not IPE?
Anyway, most of the time I just give the acetone wipe lip service.
The 24 grit surface prep makes up for a lot of sins.<G>
Lew
Steve knight wrote:
>
>> All of my applications that have been glued have been out door
applications
>> with old left over scraps. Polyurethane simply let go.
>>
>
> the only want to get a decent bond (not great mind you) with poly is
> fresh cut/sanded pieces dampen both sides and use gorilla. I found it
> glued oily woods better. but the joints are not always stronger then
> the wood.
If you want to bond IPE, it is epoxy time.
Wipe the surfaces with acetone, then scuff up the IPE surface with a
24 grit right angle sander, then wet out the surfaces with some
laminating epoxy which you let set until tacky, then butter on some
epoxy thickened with micro-balloons to the tacky surfaces.
Position pieces and WAIT.
I usually allow 48 hours minimum.
My epoxy joints don't fail, at least not yet.
SFWIW, I have found that micro-balloon thickened epoxy makes a
stronger joint than just straight epoxy.
YMMV.
Lew
"Wade Lippman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> My wife bought a lobster trap at a garage sale and wants me to make an Ipe
> top for it. (She also wants me to rebuild our deck, but wants to see what
> ipe is like before she lets me use it; a table top seemed a good trial.)
>
> I figure I could glue it up and attach it like a table top, or fasten the
> board with a space between them like a deck. Any compelling reasons to do
> it one way or the other?
I have yet to find a glue that will work with Ipe outdoors. I have not used
Epoxe but would highly recomend it if you are going to glue Ipe. Also wipe
down the joint with acetone before glueing.
I think that leaving a space between the boards may be the more successful
route to take.
> Guy at the lumber yard says that ipe is extremely stable and won't require
> as big a space as PT. He also thought that since it is summer, the wood
> is probably as expanded as it will ever be, so I could probably build it
> like a deck, but without any space. Anyone tried it that way?
Ipe is stable but does move some. I would not count on it expanding much at
all.
I would recommend buying the Ipe Decking and perhaps not leaving any space
between the joints.
Ipe is initially very dark brown but will fade to a silvery gray if exposed
to sunlight.
Ipe does not naturally splinter like PT does. You will get splintery edges
when you cut it but light sanding will take care of that. Use a sharp
carbide blade when cutting, Ipe is roughly 2.5 times harder than Oak and is
in the iron wood family. If you plane it be aware that it emits a normal
looking brown saw dust and a VERY FINE Yellowy Green powder. Citrus based
cleaners and body sweat mixed with this dust will produce BLOOD RED results.
The first few times that I worked with Ipe I thought I was bleeding to
death. ;~)
Take a look here for some recommendations when installing out doors.
http://www.diamonddecking.com/guide.htm
>All of my applications that have been glued have been out door applications
>with old left over scraps. Polyurethane simply let go.
>
the only want to get a decent bond (not great mind you) with poly is
fresh cut/sanded pieces dampen both sides and use gorilla. I found it
glued oily woods better. but the joints are not always stronger then
the wood.
>I have yet to find a glue that will work with Ipe outdoors. I have not used
>Epoxe but would highly recomend it if you are going to glue Ipe. Also wipe
>down the joint with acetone before glueing.
>I think that leaving a space between the boards may be the more successful
>route to take.
gorilla glue may or may not work. part of the problem is if the wood
is not fully dry it will shrink
I think one glue that would work very well is some of the silicone
adhesive like e6000 it sticks to about anything but has a little give
to it. takes while to dry if it does not get air. but it has been one
of the best things I found to glue metal to wood or plastic.
"Steve knight" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>>I have yet to find a glue that will work with Ipe outdoors. I have not
>>used
>>Epoxe but would highly recomend it if you are going to glue Ipe. Also
>>wipe
>>down the joint with acetone before glueing.
>>I think that leaving a space between the boards may be the more successful
>>route to take.
>
> gorilla glue may or may not work. part of the problem is if the wood
> is not fully dry it will shrink
> I think one glue that would work very well is some of the silicone
> adhesive like e6000 it sticks to about anything but has a little give
> to it. takes while to dry if it does not get air. but it has been one
> of the best things I found to glue metal to wood or plastic.
Thanks for the tip Steve.