I am a newbie woodworker and am having some trouble cutting tenons on some
rails. When I cut the shoulders on my tenons, the cuts sometimes don't line
up all the way around the stock. It will be off by a little bit on one end
of the stock. I checked my miter gauge to make sure it was at 90o and my
rip fence is parallel to miter slot before ripping the stock. What am I
doing wrong? It will only be off by a little bit on one end, but I'm
thinking that with enough clamping force the gap will not be noticeable. Is
this a common problem?
Thanks in advance.
I don't know if this is the same problem but when I cut my tenons I had the
same problem. What I noticed was with the board on its face all was fine but
with it on edge(being wider in that direction)the board contacted higher on
the fence and didn't touch the bottom of the fence, fence not
square(vertically) with the table. Before anyone screams, I had a board
clamped to the fence short of the blade.
--
"Shut up and keep diggen"
Jerry
"stoutman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:vhRzb.304840$275.1046383@attbi_s53...
> I am a newbie woodworker and am having some trouble cutting tenons on some
> rails. When I cut the shoulders on my tenons, the cuts sometimes don't
line
> up all the way around the stock. It will be off by a little bit on one
end
> of the stock. I checked my miter gauge to make sure it was at 90o and my
> rip fence is parallel to miter slot before ripping the stock. What am I
> doing wrong? It will only be off by a little bit on one end, but I'm
> thinking that with enough clamping force the gap will not be noticeable.
Is
> this a common problem?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
stoutman wrote:
> I am a newbie woodworker and am having some trouble cutting tenons on some
> rails. When I cut the shoulders on my tenons, the cuts sometimes don't line
> up all the way around the stock. It will be off by a little bit on one end
> of the stock. I checked my miter gauge to make sure it was at 90o and my
> rip fence is parallel to miter slot before ripping the stock. What am I
> doing wrong? It will only be off by a little bit on one end, but I'm
> thinking that with enough clamping force the gap will not be noticeable. Is
> this a common problem?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
I'm also a bit of a newbie, and a long time lurker to this group. This
is my first post, so go easy ;)
I don't really have a suggestion to help, rather a question in general.
Everybody, including Nahm, seems to use their table saw for making
tenons. I haven't done a lot of mortise & tenon joints, but when I have,
I have always used my table mounted router, and have had great results.
One setup does it all, and the shoulders always line up perfectly.
Depending on the size of the tenon, I may have to sand off some router
marks, but that's all.
Am I missing some advantage of using a table saw for making tenons
rather than a table mounted router?
...Mike
Mike Alexander wrote:
>
> George M. Kazaka wrote:
> > No Mike the router works just fine, read the entire thread and you will
> > understand why this current discussion was focusing on the saw
>
> I have read the entire thread. I was just surprised that I didn't see
> anyone suggest the OP try a router if wasn't happy with the results he
> was getting with his table saw.
>
> ...Mike
I don't recall him mentioning that he had a router table, but if he does
you are right, it is another possibility. As it is he is using the
tablesaw and should be able to make them easily but hasn't had good
results at this point. Something is wrong with the setup as near as I
can see. All that have replied so far have given good examples of things
to look for. I think I'd suggest just backing away from it for a few
days and then come back fresh, check all settings on the saw and fence
and try it again. Sometimes no matter how much effort you keep trying to
put into something it always backfires because you're not going at it
with a fresh mind.
Scott
--
An unkind remark is like a killing frost. No matter how much it warms
up later, the damage remains.
Is your stock that you are cutting square? Try transferring a line around
the stock with a good square and a utility knife. After your sure of the
stock, you should be able to figure out what's happening. What makes me ask
is that you stated that "sometimes" its not even. If that is the case,
something is not square or something is moving.
My tenons improved after I took some classes on using hand tools and was
able to lay out a tenon for cutting by hand. I don't cut many tenons by
hand, but I use the layout methods all the time.
It's an adventure getting there (I'm not there, but I am closer). :-)
Enjoy the trip.
BTW, shoulder planes are used to true up tenons. A scribed line and a sharp
chisel will also work.
"stoutman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:vhRzb.304840$275.1046383@attbi_s53...
> I am a newbie woodworker and am having some trouble cutting tenons on some
> rails. When I cut the shoulders on my tenons, the cuts sometimes don't
line
> up all the way around the stock. It will be off by a little bit on one
end
> of the stock. I checked my miter gauge to make sure it was at 90o and my
> rip fence is parallel to miter slot before ripping the stock. What am I
> doing wrong? It will only be off by a little bit on one end, but I'm
> thinking that with enough clamping force the gap will not be noticeable.
Is
> this a common problem?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
I've never had a kickback with my LN dovetail saw. :-)
"Silvan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> stoutman wrote:
>
> > "That sound like your animal?"
> >
> > Not really
>
> Well, then I'll thank you to not call that luxurious wood cutting machine
a
> "cheapo." I, sir, have a genuine cheapo. :P
>
> Everything else still stands though, except other posts in the thread have
> made me consider that making the shoulder cut first is potentially
> dangerous. I'll start cutting in from the end, and work up to the
> shoulder.
>
> --
> Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
> Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
> http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
>
"Tom Kohlman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I do a "no-no" and use the fence with the miter guage to serve as a
positive
> stop. I guess I don't see the safety issue as I am not cutting through
the
> material so no part to "wedge" and become air-borne. Having just finished
a
> rather elaborate deck railing that required about 200 tenons, I had no
> problems at all but then again I was only making 1/8" or 1/4" inch cuts
> which were then finished off with the tenon jig (a great tool to have) and
> band saw.
If you are cutting the tennons with the tennon pointing towards the fence
and using the fence as the eventual positive stop, this is perfectly
acceptable as long as you start cutting at the end of the board and work
towards the eventual shoulder of the tennon. This method will prevent the
tennon shoulder from being between the fence and the "side" of the blade.
Use of a sacrificial fence is advisable. Basically this method requires the
miter gauge to "Not" be between the blade and the fence.
If you are cutting the tennons with them pointing away from the fence, and
your miter gauge is between the blade and the fence, you are setting your
self up for a kick back as the shoulder is between the fence and the "side"
of the blade. The fact that you are not cutting through the wood does not
lessen the possibility of a kick back in this situation.
Yes,
I carpet taped a caliper to my miter gauge and checked the distance form the
miter gauge slot to the front on the blade and a second measurement from the
back of the blade. The measurements were almost right on. How much error
would be tolerated?
"George M. Kazaka" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:O%[email protected]...
> Is your blade parallel to the fence and the mitre slot ???
> "stoutman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:vhRzb.304840$275.1046383@attbi_s53...
> > I am a newbie woodworker and am having some trouble cutting tenons on
some
> > rails. When I cut the shoulders on my tenons, the cuts sometimes don't
> line
> > up all the way around the stock. It will be off by a little bit on one
> end
> > of the stock. I checked my miter gauge to make sure it was at 90o and
my
> > rip fence is parallel to miter slot before ripping the stock. What am I
> > doing wrong? It will only be off by a little bit on one end, but I'm
> > thinking that with enough clamping force the gap will not be noticeable.
> Is
> > this a common problem?
> >
> > Thanks in advance.
> >
> >
>
>
No Mike the router works just fine, read the entire thread and you will
understand why this current discussion was focusing on the saw
"Mike Alexander" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> stoutman wrote:
> > I am a newbie woodworker and am having some trouble cutting tenons on
some
> > rails. When I cut the shoulders on my tenons, the cuts sometimes don't
line
> > up all the way around the stock. It will be off by a little bit on one
end
> > of the stock. I checked my miter gauge to make sure it was at 90o and
my
> > rip fence is parallel to miter slot before ripping the stock. What am I
> > doing wrong? It will only be off by a little bit on one end, but I'm
> > thinking that with enough clamping force the gap will not be noticeable.
Is
> > this a common problem?
> >
> > Thanks in advance.
> >
> >
>
> I'm also a bit of a newbie, and a long time lurker to this group. This
> is my first post, so go easy ;)
>
> I don't really have a suggestion to help, rather a question in general.
>
> Everybody, including Nahm, seems to use their table saw for making
> tenons. I haven't done a lot of mortise & tenon joints, but when I have,
> I have always used my table mounted router, and have had great results.
> One setup does it all, and the shoulders always line up perfectly.
> Depending on the size of the tenon, I may have to sand off some router
> marks, but that's all.
>
> Am I missing some advantage of using a table saw for making tenons
> rather than a table mounted router?
>
> ...Mike
>
See, now that's why you need to stop being a lurker and participate! It
takes all kinds of opinions and maybe using a router could be a solution to
his problem. Just because he was trying to use a ts with difficulty doesn't
mean he HAS to use it. Perhaps his ts isn't his best tool for this job.
--
Larry C in Auburn, WA
"Mike Alexander" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> stoutman wrote:
> > I am a newbie woodworker and am having some trouble cutting tenons on
some
> > rails. When I cut the shoulders on my tenons, the cuts sometimes don't
line
> > up all the way around the stock. It will be off by a little bit on one
end
> > of the stock. I checked my miter gauge to make sure it was at 90o and
my
> > rip fence is parallel to miter slot before ripping the stock. What am I
> > doing wrong? It will only be off by a little bit on one end, but I'm
> > thinking that with enough clamping force the gap will not be noticeable.
Is
> > this a common problem?
> >
> > Thanks in advance.
> >
> >
>
> I'm also a bit of a newbie, and a long time lurker to this group. This
> is my first post, so go easy ;)
>
> I don't really have a suggestion to help, rather a question in general.
>
> Everybody, including Nahm, seems to use their table saw for making
> tenons. I haven't done a lot of mortise & tenon joints, but when I have,
> I have always used my table mounted router, and have had great results.
> One setup does it all, and the shoulders always line up perfectly.
> Depending on the size of the tenon, I may have to sand off some router
> marks, but that's all.
>
> Am I missing some advantage of using a table saw for making tenons
> rather than a table mounted router?
>
> ...Mike
>
See Larry C's post, thats what I did.
--
"Shut up and keep diggen"
Jerry
"stoutman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:NfUzb.304497$9E1.1541833@attbi_s52...
> Sounds like the same problem that I am having now.
> I thought of that being the cause. What did you do to solve the problem
in
> your case?
>
> If can't get this tenon problem solved, I'm gonna just stick with biscuits
> for all of my joinery.
>
> Thanks.
>
Sounds like the same problem that I am having now.
I thought of that being the cause. What did you do to solve the problem in
your case?
If can't get this tenon problem solved, I'm gonna just stick with biscuits
for all of my joinery.
Thanks.
"Micro*" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:%[email protected]...
> I don't know if this is the same problem but when I cut my tenons I had
the
> same problem. What I noticed was with the board on its face all was fine
but
> with it on edge(being wider in that direction)the board contacted higher
on
> the fence and didn't touch the bottom of the fence, fence not
> square(vertically) with the table. Before anyone screams, I had a board
> clamped to the fence short of the blade.
>
>
> --
> "Shut up and keep diggen"
> Jerry
>
> "stoutman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:vhRzb.304840$275.1046383@attbi_s53...
> > I am a newbie woodworker and am having some trouble cutting tenons on
some
> > rails. When I cut the shoulders on my tenons, the cuts sometimes don't
> line
> > up all the way around the stock. It will be off by a little bit on one
> end
> > of the stock. I checked my miter gauge to make sure it was at 90o and
my
> > rip fence is parallel to miter slot before ripping the stock. What am I
> > doing wrong? It will only be off by a little bit on one end, but I'm
> > thinking that with enough clamping force the gap will not be noticeable.
> Is
> > this a common problem?
> >
> > Thanks in advance.
> >
> >
>
Is your blade parallel to the fence and the mitre slot ???
"stoutman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:vhRzb.304840$275.1046383@attbi_s53...
> I am a newbie woodworker and am having some trouble cutting tenons on some
> rails. When I cut the shoulders on my tenons, the cuts sometimes don't
line
> up all the way around the stock. It will be off by a little bit on one
end
> of the stock. I checked my miter gauge to make sure it was at 90o and my
> rip fence is parallel to miter slot before ripping the stock. What am I
> doing wrong? It will only be off by a little bit on one end, but I'm
> thinking that with enough clamping force the gap will not be noticeable.
Is
> this a common problem?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
Thanks for all of the suggestions. I won't stop trying until I can cut them
like Norm!
This question was my first post on this newsgroup and I was surprised at how
quickly I got responses and the number of them.
-Thanks
"stoutman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:vhRzb.304840$275.1046383@attbi_s53...
> I am a newbie woodworker and am having some trouble cutting tenons on some
> rails. When I cut the shoulders on my tenons, the cuts sometimes don't
line
> up all the way around the stock. It will be off by a little bit on one
end
> of the stock. I checked my miter gauge to make sure it was at 90o and my
> rip fence is parallel to miter slot before ripping the stock. What am I
> doing wrong? It will only be off by a little bit on one end, but I'm
> thinking that with enough clamping force the gap will not be noticeable.
Is
> this a common problem?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
Can't give you a decimal measurement but it should not be very much
if it was off a little then that is what more than likely was causing your
problem,
Could you not feel the drag on the saw blade?
what about when you rip, you claimed that the fence was in alignment to the
mitre slot then if the mitre slot is off with the blade then the fence
should also be off with the blade.
set your fence for about 6" take a small peice of plywood, slowly run it
into the blade and look straight down as the kerf starts thru the back of
the blade, if it is off you will then see a wider kerf at the back of the
blade than the front and will also be able to see what side it is heeling on
I do this with a peice of melamine board for two reasons, there is no grain
to make the board wander and the clean white melamine will show the accuracy
or unaccuracy of the cut much better.
What kind of saw do you have ?
George
"stoutman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:G7Szb.305969$ao4.1049739@attbi_s51...
> Yes,
>
> I carpet taped a caliper to my miter gauge and checked the distance form
the
> miter gauge slot to the front on the blade and a second measurement from
the
> back of the blade. The measurements were almost right on. How much error
> would be tolerated?
>
>
>
>
>
> "George M. Kazaka" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:O%[email protected]...
> > Is your blade parallel to the fence and the mitre slot ???
> > "stoutman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:vhRzb.304840$275.1046383@attbi_s53...
> > > I am a newbie woodworker and am having some trouble cutting tenons on
> some
> > > rails. When I cut the shoulders on my tenons, the cuts sometimes
don't
> > line
> > > up all the way around the stock. It will be off by a little bit on
one
> > end
> > > of the stock. I checked my miter gauge to make sure it was at 90o and
> my
> > > rip fence is parallel to miter slot before ripping the stock. What am
I
> > > doing wrong? It will only be off by a little bit on one end, but I'm
> > > thinking that with enough clamping force the gap will not be
noticeable.
> > Is
> > > this a common problem?
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
A cheapo Delta 10''. Model 36-600.
"George M. Kazaka" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Can't give you a decimal measurement but it should not be very much
> if it was off a little then that is what more than likely was causing your
> problem,
>
> Could you not feel the drag on the saw blade?
> what about when you rip, you claimed that the fence was in alignment to
the
> mitre slot then if the mitre slot is off with the blade then the fence
> should also be off with the blade.
>
> set your fence for about 6" take a small peice of plywood, slowly run it
> into the blade and look straight down as the kerf starts thru the back of
> the blade, if it is off you will then see a wider kerf at the back of the
> blade than the front and will also be able to see what side it is heeling
on
>
> I do this with a peice of melamine board for two reasons, there is no
grain
> to make the board wander and the clean white melamine will show the
accuracy
> or unaccuracy of the cut much better.
>
> What kind of saw do you have ?
>
> George
>
> "stoutman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:G7Szb.305969$ao4.1049739@attbi_s51...
> > Yes,
> >
> > I carpet taped a caliper to my miter gauge and checked the distance form
> the
> > miter gauge slot to the front on the blade and a second measurement from
> the
> > back of the blade. The measurements were almost right on. How much
error
> > would be tolerated?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "George M. Kazaka" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:O%[email protected]...
> > > Is your blade parallel to the fence and the mitre slot ???
> > > "stoutman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:vhRzb.304840$275.1046383@attbi_s53...
> > > > I am a newbie woodworker and am having some trouble cutting tenons
on
> > some
> > > > rails. When I cut the shoulders on my tenons, the cuts sometimes
> don't
> > > line
> > > > up all the way around the stock. It will be off by a little bit on
> one
> > > end
> > > > of the stock. I checked my miter gauge to make sure it was at 90o
and
> > my
> > > > rip fence is parallel to miter slot before ripping the stock. What
am
> I
> > > > doing wrong? It will only be off by a little bit on one end, but
I'm
> > > > thinking that with enough clamping force the gap will not be
> noticeable.
> > > Is
> > > > this a common problem?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks in advance.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
If that is your problem (fence isn't 90 degrees vertical to your table top)
you could clamp a short (height-wise) board to your fence. Then when you
use that as your gauge you will only be contacting the short board and not
the fence. Therefore, whether your board is flat or on edge it will still
only make contact at the bottom. Hope that makes sense.
Sandpaper glued to your miter gauge can help too as it provides a little
extra grip on your board to keep it from sliding slightly on your miter
gauge when making a cut.
--
Larry C in Auburn, WA
"stoutman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:NfUzb.304497$9E1.1541833@attbi_s52...
> Sounds like the same problem that I am having now.
> I thought of that being the cause. What did you do to solve the problem
in
> your case?
>
> If can't get this tenon problem solved, I'm gonna just stick with biscuits
> for all of my joinery.
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> "Micro*" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:%[email protected]...
> > I don't know if this is the same problem but when I cut my tenons I had
> the
> > same problem. What I noticed was with the board on its face all was fine
> but
> > with it on edge(being wider in that direction)the board contacted higher
> on
> > the fence and didn't touch the bottom of the fence, fence not
> > square(vertically) with the table. Before anyone screams, I had a board
> > clamped to the fence short of the blade.
> >
> >
> > --
> > "Shut up and keep diggen"
> > Jerry
> >
> > "stoutman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:vhRzb.304840$275.1046383@attbi_s53...
> > > I am a newbie woodworker and am having some trouble cutting tenons on
> some
> > > rails. When I cut the shoulders on my tenons, the cuts sometimes
don't
> > line
> > > up all the way around the stock. It will be off by a little bit on
one
> > end
> > > of the stock. I checked my miter gauge to make sure it was at 90o and
> my
> > > rip fence is parallel to miter slot before ripping the stock. What am
I
> > > doing wrong? It will only be off by a little bit on one end, but I'm
> > > thinking that with enough clamping force the gap will not be
noticeable.
> > Is
> > > this a common problem?
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance.
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
stoutman wrote:
> A cheapo Delta 10''. Model 36-600.
I think that's the one that's Delta's version of my Skil 3400. Minimalist
saw. No angle wheel, crappy fence, crappy miter gauge, unusually narrow
and shallow miter slots... That sound like your animal?
I haven't done a lot of tenons, but what works for me on this saw is to
forget about the traditional tenoning jig way of doing things.
What I do is figure out the amount I want to remove from the piece, and I
usually try to keep it the same on all four cuts. I set the blade for that
height. Then I determine the depth the tenon needs to be, and clamp a stop
block to my miter sled.
With everything set like that, I take the piece, put it against the fence on
my miter sled, butt it against the stop block, then I make a series of
passes to remove the waste. The fence keeps me from cutting past the line,
and most of the positioning for the repeat cuts is done without its aid.
It takes more time than the two cuts, cut-the-cheeks-then-cut-the-shoulders
approach, but it keeps things consistent, which is no easy trick on this
saw.
If you want to cut the cheeks, then cut the shoulders, I suggest building a
tenoning jig into some kind of sled so you have a solid reference face, and
can avoid the problems associated with the impossibility of making a
zero-clearance insert for this saw. I haven't gotten around to doing that
yet. The method I described works for no more tenons than I cut. Add a
dado stack and it would be even easier.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
George M. Kazaka wrote:
> No Mike the router works just fine, read the entire thread and you will
> understand why this current discussion was focusing on the saw
I have read the entire thread. I was just surprised that I didn't see
anyone suggest the OP try a router if wasn't happy with the results he
was getting with his table saw.
...Mike
I honestly do not know much about little saws, I guess they can be adjusted
and fine tuned
(Now don't flame me guys)I consider anything under a 5 hp Industrial
quality saw a toy.
There are many on the rec here that know quite a but more about these little
saws that I
Good Luck,
George
"stoutman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:WZSzb.303769$9E1.1538639@attbi_s52...
> A cheapo Delta 10''. Model 36-600.
>
>
>
>
>
> "George M. Kazaka" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Can't give you a decimal measurement but it should not be very much
> > if it was off a little then that is what more than likely was causing
your
> > problem,
> >
> > Could you not feel the drag on the saw blade?
> > what about when you rip, you claimed that the fence was in alignment to
> the
> > mitre slot then if the mitre slot is off with the blade then the fence
> > should also be off with the blade.
> >
> > set your fence for about 6" take a small peice of plywood, slowly run it
> > into the blade and look straight down as the kerf starts thru the back
of
> > the blade, if it is off you will then see a wider kerf at the back of
the
> > blade than the front and will also be able to see what side it is
heeling
> on
> >
> > I do this with a peice of melamine board for two reasons, there is no
> grain
> > to make the board wander and the clean white melamine will show the
> accuracy
> > or unaccuracy of the cut much better.
> >
> > What kind of saw do you have ?
> >
> > George
> >
> > "stoutman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:G7Szb.305969$ao4.1049739@attbi_s51...
> > > Yes,
> > >
> > > I carpet taped a caliper to my miter gauge and checked the distance
form
> > the
> > > miter gauge slot to the front on the blade and a second measurement
from
> > the
> > > back of the blade. The measurements were almost right on. How much
> error
> > > would be tolerated?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "George M. Kazaka" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:O%[email protected]...
> > > > Is your blade parallel to the fence and the mitre slot ???
> > > > "stoutman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > > news:vhRzb.304840$275.1046383@attbi_s53...
> > > > > I am a newbie woodworker and am having some trouble cutting tenons
> on
> > > some
> > > > > rails. When I cut the shoulders on my tenons, the cuts sometimes
> > don't
> > > > line
> > > > > up all the way around the stock. It will be off by a little bit
on
> > one
> > > > end
> > > > > of the stock. I checked my miter gauge to make sure it was at 90o
> and
> > > my
> > > > > rip fence is parallel to miter slot before ripping the stock.
What
> am
> > I
> > > > > doing wrong? It will only be off by a little bit on one end, but
> I'm
> > > > > thinking that with enough clamping force the gap will not be
> > noticeable.
> > > > Is
> > > > > this a common problem?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks in advance.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Lowell Holmes wrote:
> I've never had a kickback with my LN dovetail saw. :-)
I had one with my Stanley. I detailed that somewhere or other just today, I
think. It was pretty ugly. So much for hand tools not being
dangerous. :)
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
On Fri, 05 Dec 2003 02:27:36 GMT, "Tom Kohlman"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>I do a "no-no" and use the fence with the miter guage to serve as a positive
>stop. I guess I don't see the safety issue as I am not cutting through the
>material so no part to "wedge" and become air-borne.
Even when you are cutting through, the safer way to do this is with a
stop block clamped to the fence. The block should end before the
blade. This way, you bump the work up to the block/fence, push
forward, and make the cut. Pinching of wood isn't possible.
If you make a precision thickness block, you simply add the block
thickness to the fence cursor reading. When I make any device like
this, I write something like "ADD 1/2" right on the jig with a
Sharpie.
Barry
On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 11:47:38 -0500, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>I use a jig that rides the rip fence
So do I, but mine may be different.
<http://www.bburke.com/wood/images/tenon_jig_2.jpg>
Barry
I use a jig that rides the rip fence designed by Frank Klausz for
making slip joints described in FWW a few years ago. Haven't
considered using the router table.
On Fri, 05 Dec 2003 21:48:47 GMT, Mike Alexander <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Am I missing some advantage of using a table saw for making tenons
>rather than a table mounted router?
I do a "no-no" and use the fence with the miter guage to serve as a positive
stop. I guess I don't see the safety issue as I am not cutting through the
material so no part to "wedge" and become air-borne. Having just finished a
rather elaborate deck railing that required about 200 tenons, I had no
problems at all but then again I was only making 1/8" or 1/4" inch cuts
which were then finished off with the tenon jig (a great tool to have) and
band saw.
"Brian" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> You can file the shoulders even. I wouldn't count on it being
unnoticeable
> otherwise. The piece is probably slipping a tad as it contacts the blade.
> Try clamping it to the miter guage or making a mini sled that you can
clamp
> it to.
>
> Brian.
>
>
> "stoutman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:vhRzb.304840$275.1046383@attbi_s53...
> > I am a newbie woodworker and am having some trouble cutting tenons on
some
> > rails. When I cut the shoulders on my tenons, the cuts sometimes don't
> line
> > up all the way around the stock. It will be off by a little bit on one
> end
> > of the stock. I checked my miter gauge to make sure it was at 90o and
my
> > rip fence is parallel to miter slot before ripping the stock. What am I
> > doing wrong? It will only be off by a little bit on one end, but I'm
> > thinking that with enough clamping force the gap will not be noticeable.
> Is
> > this a common problem?
> >
> > Thanks in advance.
> >
> >
>
>
In article <vhRzb.304840$275.1046383@attbi_s53>,
stoutman <[email protected]> wrote:
>I am a newbie woodworker and am having some trouble cutting tenons on some
>rails. When I cut the shoulders on my tenons, the cuts sometimes don't line
>up all the way around the stock. It will be off by a little bit on one end
>of the stock. I checked my miter gauge to make sure it was at 90o and my
>rip fence is parallel to miter slot before ripping the stock. What am I
>doing wrong? It will only be off by a little bit on one end, but I'm
>thinking that with enough clamping force the gap will not be noticeable. Is
>this a common problem?
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>
How are you checking your miter gauge for 90d? It needs to be square
to the miter slot. If you are squaring the miter gauge to the blade,
but the blade is not parallel to the slot, your cut will not be at
90d.
--
Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland
[email protected]
"That sound like your animal?"
Not really. My miter slot is the "standard size". My osborne (EB3) fit
perfectly.
"No angle wheel"
If you mean the ability to tilt the blade, yes it can do this. Tilts to the
right.
"Crappy fence"
This sounds like mine. :)
"Silvan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> stoutman wrote:
>
> > A cheapo Delta 10''. Model 36-600.
>
> I think that's the one that's Delta's version of my Skil 3400. Minimalist
> saw. No angle wheel, crappy fence, crappy miter gauge, unusually narrow
> and shallow miter slots... That sound like your animal?
>
> I haven't done a lot of tenons, but what works for me on this saw is to
> forget about the traditional tenoning jig way of doing things.
>
> What I do is figure out the amount I want to remove from the piece, and I
> usually try to keep it the same on all four cuts. I set the blade for
that
> height. Then I determine the depth the tenon needs to be, and clamp a
stop
> block to my miter sled.
>
> With everything set like that, I take the piece, put it against the fence
on
> my miter sled, butt it against the stop block, then I make a series of
> passes to remove the waste. The fence keeps me from cutting past the
line,
> and most of the positioning for the repeat cuts is done without its aid.
> It takes more time than the two cuts,
cut-the-cheeks-then-cut-the-shoulders
> approach, but it keeps things consistent, which is no easy trick on this
> saw.
>
> If you want to cut the cheeks, then cut the shoulders, I suggest building
a
> tenoning jig into some kind of sled so you have a solid reference face,
and
> can avoid the problems associated with the impossibility of making a
> zero-clearance insert for this saw. I haven't gotten around to doing that
> yet. The method I described works for no more tenons than I cut. Add a
> dado stack and it would be even easier.
>
> --
> Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
> Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
> http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
>
stoutman wrote:
> "That sound like your animal?"
>
> Not really
Well, then I'll thank you to not call that luxurious wood cutting machine a
"cheapo." I, sir, have a genuine cheapo. :P
Everything else still stands though, except other posts in the thread have
made me consider that making the shoulder cut first is potentially
dangerous. I'll start cutting in from the end, and work up to the
shoulder.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
You can file the shoulders even. I wouldn't count on it being unnoticeable
otherwise. The piece is probably slipping a tad as it contacts the blade.
Try clamping it to the miter guage or making a mini sled that you can clamp
it to.
Brian.
"stoutman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:vhRzb.304840$275.1046383@attbi_s53...
> I am a newbie woodworker and am having some trouble cutting tenons on some
> rails. When I cut the shoulders on my tenons, the cuts sometimes don't
line
> up all the way around the stock. It will be off by a little bit on one
end
> of the stock. I checked my miter gauge to make sure it was at 90o and my
> rip fence is parallel to miter slot before ripping the stock. What am I
> doing wrong? It will only be off by a little bit on one end, but I'm
> thinking that with enough clamping force the gap will not be noticeable.
Is
> this a common problem?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
Stoutman,
I cut many tenons with a 36-600 (had it for 4 years before I upgraded). I
would scribe a line all the way around the board with an accurate square.
Then after you cut the tenons on the table saw, you can clean them up with a
sharp chisel.
Montyhp
"stoutman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:WZSzb.303769$9E1.1538639@attbi_s52...
> A cheapo Delta 10''. Model 36-600.
>
>
>
>
>
> "George M. Kazaka" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Can't give you a decimal measurement but it should not be very much
> > if it was off a little then that is what more than likely was causing
your
> > problem,
> >
> > Could you not feel the drag on the saw blade?
> > what about when you rip, you claimed that the fence was in alignment to
> the
> > mitre slot then if the mitre slot is off with the blade then the fence
> > should also be off with the blade.
> >
> > set your fence for about 6" take a small peice of plywood, slowly run it
> > into the blade and look straight down as the kerf starts thru the back
of
> > the blade, if it is off you will then see a wider kerf at the back of
the
> > blade than the front and will also be able to see what side it is
heeling
> on
> >
> > I do this with a peice of melamine board for two reasons, there is no
> grain
> > to make the board wander and the clean white melamine will show the
> accuracy
> > or unaccuracy of the cut much better.
> >
> > What kind of saw do you have ?
> >
> > George
> >
> > "stoutman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:G7Szb.305969$ao4.1049739@attbi_s51...
> > > Yes,
> > >
> > > I carpet taped a caliper to my miter gauge and checked the distance
form
> > the
> > > miter gauge slot to the front on the blade and a second measurement
from
> > the
> > > back of the blade. The measurements were almost right on. How much
> error
> > > would be tolerated?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "George M. Kazaka" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:O%[email protected]...
> > > > Is your blade parallel to the fence and the mitre slot ???
> > > > "stoutman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > > news:vhRzb.304840$275.1046383@attbi_s53...
> > > > > I am a newbie woodworker and am having some trouble cutting tenons
> on
> > > some
> > > > > rails. When I cut the shoulders on my tenons, the cuts sometimes
> > don't
> > > > line
> > > > > up all the way around the stock. It will be off by a little bit
on
> > one
> > > > end
> > > > > of the stock. I checked my miter gauge to make sure it was at 90o
> and
> > > my
> > > > > rip fence is parallel to miter slot before ripping the stock.
What
> am
> > I
> > > > > doing wrong? It will only be off by a little bit on one end, but
> I'm
> > > > > thinking that with enough clamping force the gap will not be
> > noticeable.
> > > > Is
> > > > > this a common problem?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks in advance.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Pretty cool isn't it! I'm amazed at how much help is available here. From
all different levels of experience too so you get a variety of responses.
--
Larry C in Auburn, WA
"stoutman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:Oi0Ab.310124$ao4.1057190@attbi_s51...
> Thanks for all of the suggestions. I won't stop trying until I can cut
them
> like Norm!
>
> This question was my first post on this newsgroup and I was surprised at
how
> quickly I got responses and the number of them.
>
> -Thanks
>
>
>
> "stoutman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:vhRzb.304840$275.1046383@attbi_s53...
> > I am a newbie woodworker and am having some trouble cutting tenons on
some
> > rails. When I cut the shoulders on my tenons, the cuts sometimes don't
> line
> > up all the way around the stock. It will be off by a little bit on one
> end
> > of the stock. I checked my miter gauge to make sure it was at 90o and
my
> > rip fence is parallel to miter slot before ripping the stock. What am I
> > doing wrong? It will only be off by a little bit on one end, but I'm
> > thinking that with enough clamping force the gap will not be noticeable.
> Is
> > this a common problem?
> >
> > Thanks in advance.
> >
> >
>
>
I have been cutting a few pieces of scrap wood and checking the cut with a
square.
What do you recommend?
"Lawrence Wasserman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <vhRzb.304840$275.1046383@attbi_s53>,
> stoutman <[email protected]> wrote:
> >I am a newbie woodworker and am having some trouble cutting tenons on
some
> >rails. When I cut the shoulders on my tenons, the cuts sometimes don't
line
> >up all the way around the stock. It will be off by a little bit on one
end
> >of the stock. I checked my miter gauge to make sure it was at 90o and my
> >rip fence is parallel to miter slot before ripping the stock. What am I
> >doing wrong? It will only be off by a little bit on one end, but I'm
> >thinking that with enough clamping force the gap will not be noticeable.
Is
> >this a common problem?
> >
> >Thanks in advance.
> >
> >
>
> How are you checking your miter gauge for 90d? It needs to be square
> to the miter slot. If you are squaring the miter gauge to the blade,
> but the blade is not parallel to the slot, your cut will not be at
> 90d.
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland
> [email protected]
>