Has anyone used these? I was looking at carving tools at Rockler yesterday.
They had Flexicut, Crown and a brand that I had never heard of. The one that
I had never heard of was droped from consideration as soon as I saw the work
done on them with a soft buffing wheel. That just screams "cheap". The only
edged tool I have owned from Crown was a marking knife and it's edge holding
ability was right up there with a Chinese butter knife. I ended up with
Flexicut (quality, no doubt) but were the Crown worth consideration? Was my
marking knife an anomaly or representative of the brand? There is so much
junk on the market in edged tools, it's almost a crap shoot trying to get
something that does more than just look like cutting tool.
"stephen privett" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> If you can carve well you can use any tool as long as you keep the edge keen
I suppose if you can carve really well you could use a piece of
flintrock. But the rest of us want a tool that makes life easier
rather than one that we can manage to struggle by with.
While I don't have any of the Crown carving tools, I've got their
marking knife and awl and they are not worth a damn. Like another
poster said, they're just crap that's "tarted up" with redwood
handles.
IMHO, of course.
Chuck Vance
Fly-by-Night CC <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> This has been interesting - the Crown turning tools are generally
> regarded as good quality and more reasonably priced than Sorby.
Turning tools are easier to make (in a metallurgical sense). Any
modern HSS is adequate for the job, as turners can manage at poor
levels of sharpness that would be obviously bad for carving.
Robustness and edge _holding_ is quite easy to achieve for any maker
now, it's the steelworks doing the clever bit. Grinding and heat
treatment of HSS is much easier than that of a temperature-sensitive
high carbon steel.
OTOH, I wasn't impressed with Crown's turning tools either. The shape
of the grind was particularly bad, especially the fingernail (sic)
gouges. However this is typical of almost all turning tools below the
very first rank.
I use Axminster's "Perform" turning tools, plus a few extra Sorbys of
particular shapes. They were nasty grinds out of the box, but an
afternoon with the angle grinder sorted that. Now they're OK, and the
steel seems to do the job well enough.
I believe that the Flexcut tools were an experiment in economy more than
anything. It is far cheaper to turn these tools out on a punch pres than it
is to forge them. Just turned out that they worked well. Mine are the palm
tools so the flexibility is not a factor. Thanks for the info on Crown. The
one Crown tool I had was junk and I was afraid that it was representative of
the brand.
"Andy Dingley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sun, 6 Jun 2004 10:23:27 -0700, "CW" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >Has anyone used these?
>
> Crown are rubbish. Really low-grade junk, tarted up with a rosewood
> handle.
>
> Flexcut are odd. They look nasty in some ways, but they seem to do the
> job. I don't understand their magic geometry and flexiness, yet I can
> clearly carve much better with a friend's flexcuts than I can with
> good quality traditional carvers. I am however a rubbish carver -
> maybe Flexcut are just more approachable ?
>
> --
> Smert' spamionam
Hmmm. You'd really hate my carving tools. The backs of them are irregular
even after the forging. Of course, it's meaningless, because the edge is
between the milled and polished interior and the bevel.
It's the edge that counts, but you have to put that on. I can't see the
utility in flexible tools, but it may be because I'm so used to leveraging
my way around to clean after mallet work.
"CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Has anyone used these? I was looking at carving tools at Rockler
yesterday.
> They had Flexicut, Crown and a brand that I had never heard of. The one
that
> I had never heard of was droped from consideration as soon as I saw the
work
> done on them with a soft buffing wheel. That just screams "cheap".
Crown also has a line of powder steel tools which are highly regarded by
some.
I have their and Sorby HSS turning tools under their name, and a house name.
All seem to work fine for me.
"Andy Dingley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Fly-by-Night CC <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
>
> > This has been interesting - the Crown turning tools are generally
> > regarded as good quality and more reasonably priced than Sorby.
>
>
> OTOH, I wasn't impressed with Crown's turning tools either. The shape
> of the grind was particularly bad, especially the fingernail (sic)
> gouges. However this is typical of almost all turning tools below the
> very first rank.
>
> I use Axminster's "Perform" turning tools, plus a few extra Sorbys of
> particular shapes. They were nasty grinds out of the box, but an
> afternoon with the angle grinder sorted that. Now they're OK, and the
> steel seems to do the job well enough.
They can make their tools out of the finest steel available but if the don't
heat treat it correctly, it might just as well be 1018. I was thinking about
annealing and reheat treating the marking knife blade just to see of it was
lousy steel or lousy heat treat but never got around to it. Finally, just
threw it away.
"AArDvarK" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:v6byc.30481$My6.18242@fed1read05...
>
> "CW"
> > The Crown marking knife is the tool that made me pass on the carving
tools.
> > Wasn't sure if I got a bad one or bad ones are all they make. Wasn't
willing
> > to risk it. Looks like I was right and I sure appreciate the input from
> > everyone.
>
> Yeah but they do have that one line of tools made from powdered crucible
steel,
> those really ought to be very good, extremely hard stuff.
>
> Alex
>
>
"B a r r y" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> Any of the Crown tools I've purchased, including a marking gauge,
> saws, and chisels, have left me less than impressed.
>
> Barry
I thought it was just me. Marking tool sucks.
Ed
Ed Pawlowski responds:
>"B a r r y" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> Any of the Crown tools I've purchased, including a marking gauge,
>> saws, and chisels, have left me less than impressed.
>>
>> Barry
>
>I thought it was just me. Marking tool sucks.
I've got the short bladed awl, a perfect size, but I have to be careful when
marking to not bend the thing.
Waste of money. I don't know anything about the rest of the line, but after
this one, I'll never find out.
Charlie Self
"The test and the use of man's education is that he finds pleasure in the
exercise of his mind." Jacques Barzun
On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 07:51:40 -0700, "CW" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>They can make their tools out of the finest steel available but if the don't
>heat treat it correctly, it might just as well be 1018.
But if it's most of the HSS steels, any fool can get the heat
treatment right, It's far easier than a plain high carbon steel
(albeit less flexible).
This is why cheap carving chisels (high carbon steel) are so often
rubbish, but turning tools (HSS for better wear-resistance) can be
made by any monkey, even Crown.
The really high-end makers might do all sorts of bizarre cryogenic
processing to A2 (and many claim it's worthwhile) but if you take a
lump of this steel, heat it once, just leave it alone to get cold and
then sharpen it with an angle grinder, then you'll still get a decent
cutting tool that's better than much of the low-end stuff.
--
Smert' spamionam
Have never used Crown brand but Flextools are excellent and I consider
them "can't go wrong tools". LOve mine they keep their sharpness
longer than most other tools. I would tend to stay away from Sorby
they make great Lathe chisels but not carving. If you have money to
burn Stubai are the best of the best.
"CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Has anyone used these? I was looking at carving tools at Rockler yesterday.
> They had Flexicut, Crown and a brand that I had never heard of. The one that
> I had never heard of was droped from consideration as soon as I saw the work
> done on them with a soft buffing wheel. That just screams "cheap". The only
> edged tool I have owned from Crown was a marking knife and it's edge holding
> ability was right up there with a Chinese butter knife. I ended up with
> Flexicut (quality, no doubt) but were the Crown worth consideration? Was my
> marking knife an anomaly or representative of the brand? There is so much
> junk on the market in edged tools, it's almost a crap shoot trying to get
> something that does more than just look like cutting tool.
The Crown marking knife is the tool that made me pass on the carving tools.
Wasn't sure if I got a bad one or bad ones are all they make. Wasn't willing
to risk it. Looks like I was right and I sure appreciate the input from
everyone.
"Conan The Librarian" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "stephen privett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
>
> > If you can carve well you can use any tool as long as you keep the edge
keen
>
> I suppose if you can carve really well you could use a piece of
> flintrock. But the rest of us want a tool that makes life easier
> rather than one that we can manage to struggle by with.
>
> While I don't have any of the Crown carving tools, I've got their
> marking knife and awl and they are not worth a damn. Like another
> poster said, they're just crap that's "tarted up" with redwood
> handles.
>
> IMHO, of course.
>
>
> Chuck Vance
On Sun, 06 Jun 2004 22:48:52 -0700, Fly-by-Night CC
<[email protected]> wrote:
>This has been interesting - the Crown turning tools are generally
>regarded as good quality and more reasonably priced than Sorby.
By who?
Could there be more than one Crown Tool Company?
Any of the Crown tools I've purchased, including a marking gauge,
saws, and chisels, have left me less than impressed.
Barry
On Tue, 8 Jun 2004 00:56:18 -0700, AArDvarK wrote:
>
> Andy, pardon me for interupting off-topic, have you ever tried
> Footprint bevel edged bench chisels? Do you have an opinion on them?
Excuse me for interrupting but I've got a set of Footprint's bench
chisels. They're OK but not in the same league as something like
Sorbys IMO.
They take and hold an edge reasonably well. I managed to loosen one
from it's handle doing mortices though - fair enough since they're not
morticing chisels. Mine came with blue plastic handles. I've found the
handles to be comfortable enough.
>
> Great price for a starting point is the reason I ask. And I found
> that Footprint is selling through Amazon.com in the U.S. too.
As a first set of chisels, I think they are perfectly adequate. I've
got some posher chisels now but I still on occasion use the
Footprints.
I've got a Marples chisel and it's crap in comparison - their steel
doesn't seem right: brittle but not hard or tough...again IMHO.
BTW, I agree with Andy's estimation of Crown tools: garbage. I've got
some of their cabinetmaker's screwdrivers with beech handles that need
re-grinding if they are going to be used effectively. I believe Lie
Nielsen are going to bring out some screwdrivers, so I might treat
myself to some of them.
BTW, Footprint make some really nice grips; a 6" pair come in handy
around the shop for unseizing the tops of cans etc.
--
Frank
http://www.freebsd.org/
In article <[email protected]>,
B a r r y <[email protected]> wrote:
> >This has been interesting - the Crown turning tools are generally
> >regarded as good quality and more reasonably priced than Sorby.
>
> By who?
By those in my two local American Assoc. of Woodturners chapters as well
as the folks on rec.crafts.woodturning.
> Could there be more than one Crown Tool Company?
In this case, it appears to be the same one.
> Any of the Crown tools I've purchased, including a marking gauge,
> saws, and chisels, have left me less than impressed.
I would tend to agree on the bench chisels - edge retention has been
poor in my opinion.
--
Owen Lowe and his Fly-by-Night Copper Company
Offering a shim for the Porter-Cable 557 type 2 fence design.
<http://www.flybynightcoppercompany.com>
<http://www.easystreet.com/~onlnlowe/index.html>
In article <[email protected]>,
"CW" <[email protected]> wrote:
> The
> one Crown tool I had was junk and I was afraid that it was representative of
> the brand.
This has been interesting - the Crown turning tools are generally
regarded as good quality and more reasonably priced than Sorby.
--
Owen Lowe and his Fly-by-Night Copper Company
Offering a shim for the Porter-Cable 557 type 2 fence design.
<http://www.flybynightcoppercompany.com>
<http://www.easystreet.com/~onlnlowe/index.html>
Hey man... it is too-cool if you "interrupt". I need the advice so you
are more than excused. And thank you exceedingly for interrupting!
I think I will get the red acetate handled Footprints from Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00020JO6Y/qid=1086593192/sr=1-13/ref=sr_1_13/002-4932766-0472056?v=glance&s=hi
to see them:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index%3Dtools%26field-browse%3D228013%26search-type%3Dss%26field-keywords%3DFootprint%2085%26/qid=1086585462/sr=-4/ref=sr__4_etk-tools_all/002-4932766-0472056
Alex
On Sun, 6 Jun 2004 10:23:27 -0700, "CW" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Has anyone used these?
Crown are rubbish. Really low-grade junk, tarted up with a rosewood
handle.
Flexcut are odd. They look nasty in some ways, but they seem to do the
job. I don't understand their magic geometry and flexiness, yet I can
clearly carve much better with a friend's flexcuts than I can with
good quality traditional carvers. I am however a rubbish carver -
maybe Flexcut are just more approachable ?
--
Smert' spamionam
"CW"
> The Crown marking knife is the tool that made me pass on the carving tools.
> Wasn't sure if I got a bad one or bad ones are all they make. Wasn't willing
> to risk it. Looks like I was right and I sure appreciate the input from
> everyone.
Yeah but they do have that one line of tools made from powdered crucible steel,
those really ought to be very good, extremely hard stuff.
Alex
If you can carve well you can use any tool as long as you keep the edge keen
"CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I believe that the Flexcut tools were an experiment in economy more than
> anything. It is far cheaper to turn these tools out on a punch pres than
it
> is to forge them. Just turned out that they worked well. Mine are the palm
> tools so the flexibility is not a factor. Thanks for the info on Crown.
The
> one Crown tool I had was junk and I was afraid that it was representative
of
> the brand.
>
> "Andy Dingley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > On Sun, 6 Jun 2004 10:23:27 -0700, "CW" <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >Has anyone used these?
> >
> > Crown are rubbish. Really low-grade junk, tarted up with a rosewood
> > handle.
> >
> > Flexcut are odd. They look nasty in some ways, but they seem to do the
> > job. I don't understand their magic geometry and flexiness, yet I can
> > clearly carve much better with a friend's flexcuts than I can with
> > good quality traditional carvers. I am however a rubbish carver -
> > maybe Flexcut are just more approachable ?
> >
> > --
> > Smert' spamionam
>
>
B a r r y <[email protected]> writes:
[...]
> Any of the Crown tools I've purchased, including a marking gauge,
> saws, and chisels, have left me less than impressed.
I'm perfectly happy with my crwon burnisher, but apart from that I
don't own any of their tools. Just recently i bought a set of 18
chinese carving tools for 58EURO plus taxes, which seem to be very
nice. They come unsharpened and without handles, just forged, roughly
ground to shape and hardened, so it's quite a bit of work to get them
operational, but they seem to take thir edge well and probably also to
hold it (not yet tested that part), but so did my white paper steel
self-forged gouge, too.
--
Dr. Juergen Hannappel http://lisa2.physik.uni-bonn.de/~hannappe
mailto:[email protected] Phone: +49 228 73 2447 FAX ... 7869
Physikalisches Institut der Uni Bonn Nussallee 12, D-53115 Bonn, Germany
CERN: Phone: +412276 76461 Fax: ..77930 Bat. 892-R-A13 CH-1211 Geneve 23