A while back I bought a PC biscuit jointer and have just gotten an
excuse to use it. I broke it out today, planning to add an Ash edge
some plywood for a cabinet I'm making and have run into some
questions:
1. The biscuits seem pretty loose in the slot. I can move the boards
laterally a 64th or so. Is this normal? I thought they'd be more
like dowels and be quite tight. I know the idea is that they expand
when glued but the slop isn't giving me much confidence. My plywood
is somewhat warped so there is no way the biscuits are going to hold
the two pieces laterally. It seems I'm going to have to make some
cauls this weekend.
2. Is the PC jointer supposed to sound like a coffee grinder? I would
have expected the sound from HF, but not a "high end" jointer like the
PC. I can't feel any slop in the bearings so I don't think this
accounts for any slop, but thought I'd ask.
Thanks.
"krw" wrote:
> What type of joint would you use for
> edging? BTW, the edge board I'm doing is about 4" wide; a little
> less
> after I rip everything down to final size.
Given a choice, I'd use tongue and groove.
Tongue in the wood, groove in the plywood, forget the biscuits except
at the corner miters in the wood.
YMMV
Lew
Peter Huebner wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] says...
>> A while back I bought a PC biscuit jointer and have just gotten an
>> excuse to use it. I broke it out today, planning to add an Ash edge
>> some plywood for a cabinet I'm making and have run into some
>> questions:
>>
>> 1. The biscuits seem pretty loose in the slot. I can move the boards
>> laterally a 64th or so. Is this normal? I thought they'd be more
>> like dowels and be quite tight. I know the idea is that they expand
>> when glued but the slop isn't giving me much confidence. My plywood
>> is somewhat warped so there is no way the biscuits are going to hold
>> the two pieces laterally. It seems I'm going to have to make some
>> cauls this weekend.
>>
>> 2. Is the PC jointer supposed to sound like a coffee grinder? I would
>> have expected the sound from HF, but not a "high end" jointer like the
>> PC. I can't feel any slop in the bearings so I don't think this
>> accounts for any slop, but thought I'd ask.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>
> I'm astonished at some of the replies. I use a Makita bisquit jointer
> with Lamello bisquits and there is NO slop, period.
I have a PC with some slop in the biscuits. No play in the bearings,
sounds like an angle grinder (which is basically what it is).
I'm tempted to take the blades down to my sharpening guy and get them to
take a few thou off the sides.
Chris
"krw" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 14:17:27 +1200, Peter Huebner
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>In article <[email protected]>,
>>[email protected] says...
>>>
>>> A while back I bought a PC biscuit jointer and have just gotten an
>>> excuse to use it. I broke it out today, planning to add an Ash edge
>>> some plywood for a cabinet I'm making and have run into some
>>> questions:
>>>
>>> 1. The biscuits seem pretty loose in the slot. I can move the boards
>>> laterally a 64th or so. Is this normal? I thought they'd be more
>>> like dowels and be quite tight. I know the idea is that they expand
>>> when glued but the slop isn't giving me much confidence. My plywood
>>> is somewhat warped so there is no way the biscuits are going to hold
>>> the two pieces laterally. It seems I'm going to have to make some
>>> cauls this weekend.
>>>
>>> 2. Is the PC jointer supposed to sound like a coffee grinder? I would
>>> have expected the sound from HF, but not a "high end" jointer like the
>>> PC. I can't feel any slop in the bearings so I don't think this
>>> accounts for any slop, but thought I'd ask.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>
>>I'm astonished at some of the replies. I use a Makita bisquit jointer
>>with Lamello bisquits and there is NO slop, period. It requires firm
>>pressure to insert 95% of the bisquits into the slot (I get the odd one
>>that slides in easily) and I sometimes have to use pliers to remove them
>>after a trial fit-up. Once coated with pva, I have to use a very small
>>wooden mallet to centre bisquits if I haven't gotten them into the right
>>place with my thumb, they're that tight.
>
> Haven't tried the glue yet. It was apparent I was going to need to do
> more alignment, so stopped.
>
>>Hard to say if your bisquits are crap, or if the PC is sloppy/wobbly or
>>if the blade is no good. My jointer sounds like a router, not like a
>>coffee grinder ...
>>
>>Just for reference: I keep the lamello bisquits in a plastic bucket with
>>the lid merely laid snugly on top, rather than pressed down (it's so
>>tight, it's a pain to try and open if I seal it) and in my extremely
>>humid climate I haven't had noticable problems with the bisquits
>>swelling through sucking moisture from the air. The box-full of bisquits
>>I am still using a.t.m. is about 5 years old.
>
> I just recently bought both PC (#10) and Bosch (#20) biscuits. All
> are sloppy in the slots (I just cut for #20, but it's the same blade).
> I'm sorta limited in what I can buy around here so I'll try some
> Lamello next time I order toys.
I have a PC joiner and use (mostly) Bosch biscuits. (because they're the
most available here).
The biscuits fit snug but not so tight that they can't be removed before
gluing.
There is plenty of room for lateral adjustment; I think that was an
intentional design.
Max
"krw" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 19:28:52 -0700, "CW" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>I have a biscuit joiner that gets used maybe once a year. It's good for
>>alignment if +- 1/64 is close enough. For edging, such as you are doing, I
>>wouldn't use it. There are more accurate ways. I really don't find the
>>biscuit joiner to be much use.
>
> Seems to be two schools of thought; love 'em or hate 'em. Thought I'd
> see which side I came down on. What type of joint would you use for
> edging? BTW, the edge board I'm doing is about 4" wide; a little less
> after I rip everything down to final size.
>
> <snip>
I've done quite a bit of edge joining for making table tops, that sort of
thing, and never had a problem with biscuits but I can't recall ever joining
anything less than 3/4" thick. For an edge along side plywood I just glue
the edge in place. No biscuits, no tongue and groove) No problems.
Max
"krw" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 08:51:05 -0600, "Max" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"krw" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>> On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 14:17:27 +1200, Peter Huebner
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>In article <[email protected]>,
>>>>[email protected] says...
>>>>>
>>>>> A while back I bought a PC biscuit jointer and have just gotten an
>>>>> excuse to use it. I broke it out today, planning to add an Ash edge
>>>>> some plywood for a cabinet I'm making and have run into some
>>>>> questions:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. The biscuits seem pretty loose in the slot. I can move the boards
>>>>> laterally a 64th or so. Is this normal? I thought they'd be more
>>>>> like dowels and be quite tight. I know the idea is that they expand
>>>>> when glued but the slop isn't giving me much confidence. My plywood
>>>>> is somewhat warped so there is no way the biscuits are going to hold
>>>>> the two pieces laterally. It seems I'm going to have to make some
>>>>> cauls this weekend.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. Is the PC jointer supposed to sound like a coffee grinder? I would
>>>>> have expected the sound from HF, but not a "high end" jointer like the
>>>>> PC. I can't feel any slop in the bearings so I don't think this
>>>>> accounts for any slop, but thought I'd ask.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I'm astonished at some of the replies. I use a Makita bisquit jointer
>>>>with Lamello bisquits and there is NO slop, period. It requires firm
>>>>pressure to insert 95% of the bisquits into the slot (I get the odd one
>>>>that slides in easily) and I sometimes have to use pliers to remove them
>>>>after a trial fit-up. Once coated with pva, I have to use a very small
>>>>wooden mallet to centre bisquits if I haven't gotten them into the right
>>>>place with my thumb, they're that tight.
>>>
>>> Haven't tried the glue yet. It was apparent I was going to need to do
>>> more alignment, so stopped.
>>>
>>>>Hard to say if your bisquits are crap, or if the PC is sloppy/wobbly or
>>>>if the blade is no good. My jointer sounds like a router, not like a
>>>>coffee grinder ...
>>>>
>>>>Just for reference: I keep the lamello bisquits in a plastic bucket with
>>>>the lid merely laid snugly on top, rather than pressed down (it's so
>>>>tight, it's a pain to try and open if I seal it) and in my extremely
>>>>humid climate I haven't had noticable problems with the bisquits
>>>>swelling through sucking moisture from the air. The box-full of bisquits
>>>>I am still using a.t.m. is about 5 years old.
>>>
>>> I just recently bought both PC (#10) and Bosch (#20) biscuits. All
>>> are sloppy in the slots (I just cut for #20, but it's the same blade).
>>> I'm sorta limited in what I can buy around here so I'll try some
>>> Lamello next time I order toys.
>>
>>I have a PC joiner and use (mostly) Bosch biscuits. (because they're the
>>most available here).
>>The biscuits fit snug but not so tight that they can't be removed before
>>gluing.
>>There is plenty of room for lateral adjustment; I think that was an
>>intentional design.
>
> "Latteral" was a poor choice of words on my part. I meant that the
> edge alignment is off by as much as 1/64" either way. That is, the
> biscuit rattles from top to bottom (board laying flat) in the slot
> about 1/64". Side to side the slop is at least 1/8", maybe 1/4".
There must be something wrong with the blade or the arbor (shaft). The blade
on mine cuts a slot just the right "thickness" to fit the thickness of the
biscuit. Do you have a caliper (or even better a micrometer) Measure the
thickness of the teeth on the blade. With the joiner setting on a smooth,
flat surface, measure the distance between the blade and the surface.
Rotate the blade (with the cord unplugged, heh, heh)
and measure again. If there's a difference, it's the arbor, (shaft).
The joiner has to be tight against the work and held tight so there's no
chance for it to move up.
Plunge *once* and back out. If you leave the blade in the slot more than a
couple seconds it will make the slot larger.
My son has the same PC joiner that I have and he has no problems either.
Max
"krw" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 03:59:55 GMT, "Lew Hodgett"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>>"krw" wrote:
>>
>>> What type of joint would you use for
>>> edging? BTW, the edge board I'm doing is about 4" wide; a little
>>> less
>>> after I rip everything down to final size.
>>
>>
>>Given a choice, I'd use tongue and groove.
>>
>>Tongue in the wood, groove in the plywood, forget the biscuits except
>>at the corner miters in the wood.
>
> I may do that next time. I'll have to play with T&G techniques. How
> would you cut them? Using a shaper is cheating. ;-)
I have matching router bits. One cuts the tongue and the other cuts the
groove.
You have set the height just right but it works just fine.
Max
On Jul 23, 6:13=A0pm, krw <[email protected]> wrote:
> A while back I bought a PC biscuit jointer and have just gotten an
> excuse to use it. =A0I broke it out today, planning to add an Ash edge
> some plywood for a cabinet I'm making and have run into some
> questions:
You don't need biscuits for edging. Just glue & clamping with a strip
of masking tape every 3-4 inches has worked really well for me. & it
is more accurate than biscuits.
Don't get me wrong, I love my biscuit joiner for 90 degree joints,
especially in sheet goods.
Luigi
On Jul 23, 9:13=A0pm, krw <[email protected]> wrote:
> A while back I bought a PC biscuit jointer and have just gotten an
> excuse to use it. =A0I broke it out today, planning to add an Ash edge
> some plywood for a cabinet I'm making and have run into some
> questions:
>
> 1. The biscuits seem pretty loose in the slot. =A0I can move the boards
> laterally a 64th or so. =A0Is this normal?
Yes. I have a can of biscuits that is several months old. Some if the
biscuits will be tight and some loose. There will some variability in
moisture content from biscuit to biscuit. (this is what I have found).
After you add glue they will swell significantly.
> =A0I thought they'd be more
> like dowels and be quite tight. =A0I know the idea is that they expand
> when glued but the slop isn't giving me much confidence. =A0My plywood
> is somewhat warped so there is no way the biscuits are going to hold
> the two pieces laterally. =A0It seems I'm going to have to make some
> cauls this weekend.
YES! Use wax paper so the cauls don't stick.
>
> 2. Is the PC jointer supposed to sound like a coffee grinder? =A0
Don't know this one, I own a DeWalt.
I would
> have expected the sound from HF, but not a "high end" jointer like the
> PC. =A0I can't feel any slop in the bearings so I don't think this
> accounts for any slop, but thought I'd ask.
>
> Thanks.
On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 07:23:36 -0700 (PDT), Luigi Zanasi
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Jul 23, 6:13 pm, krw <[email protected]> wrote:
>> A while back I bought a PC biscuit jointer and have just gotten an
>> excuse to use it. I broke it out today, planning to add an Ash edge
>> some plywood for a cabinet I'm making and have run into some
>> questions:
>
>You don't need biscuits for edging. Just glue & clamping with a strip
>of masking tape every 3-4 inches has worked really well for me. & it
>is more accurate than biscuits.
Masking tape? What does that do?
>Don't get me wrong, I love my biscuit joiner for 90 degree joints,
>especially in sheet goods.
On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 19:28:52 -0700, "CW" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>I have a biscuit joiner that gets used maybe once a year. It's good for
>alignment if +- 1/64 is close enough. For edging, such as you are doing, I
>wouldn't use it. There are more accurate ways. I really don't find the
>biscuit joiner to be much use.
Seems to be two schools of thought; love 'em or hate 'em. Thought I'd
see which side I came down on. What type of joint would you use for
edging? BTW, the edge board I'm doing is about 4" wide; a little less
after I rip everything down to final size.
<snip>
"Jack Stein" wrote:
>> I saw our buddy Norm build an exterior door and he used floating
>> tenons and there was 1/4" at least on each side. He said it didn't
>> matter as far as strength was concerned. I believe him.
"CW" wrote:
> I don't. In a good mortise and tenon joint, the wood bears all the
> load with the glue just holding it together. With a sloppy fitting
> tenon, the glue takes the strain. I was rather surprised that he did
> that.
Time for some definitions.
Jack was commenting on the small dimension of the M/T which I refer to
as the "end" rather than the large dimension of the M/T which I refer
to as the "side".
Strictly arbitrary, but keeps everybody together.
Lew
On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 03:59:55 GMT, "Lew Hodgett"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"krw" wrote:
>
>> What type of joint would you use for
>> edging? BTW, the edge board I'm doing is about 4" wide; a little
>> less
>> after I rip everything down to final size.
>
>
>Given a choice, I'd use tongue and groove.
>
>Tongue in the wood, groove in the plywood, forget the biscuits except
>at the corner miters in the wood.
I may do that next time. I'll have to play with T&G techniques. How
would you cut them? Using a shaper is cheating. ;-)
On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 21:34:46 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]>
wrote:
<snip>
>> 2. Is the PC jointer supposed to sound like a coffee grinder?
>
>Probably not but they do.
>
>
>
>I would have expected the sound from HF, but not a "high end" jointer like
>the
>> PC.
>
>These days PC is middle of the road. I have 2 PC plate joiners. If you
>want "high end" look at Lamello. Lamello is about the only "high end" plate
>joiner.
>
>http://www.lamello.com/en/products/wood-joining-system.html
>
I'm a little familiar with it. The PC wasn't cheap (over $200) and I
am a disappointed in its operation. It really does sound like it has
bad bearings. My guess is it's a cheap worm gear in the right angle
drive.
> I can't feel any slop in the bearings so I don't think this
>> accounts for any slop, but thought I'd ask.
>
>Biscuits tend to be extremely inconsistent in thickness.
They all seem sloppy.
On Jul 24, 5:07=A0pm, krw <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 07:23:36 -0700 (PDT), Luigi Zanasi
>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >On Jul 23, 6:13=A0pm, krw <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> A while back I bought a PC biscuit jointer and have just gotten an
> >> excuse to use it. =A0I broke it out today, planning to add an Ash edge
> >> some plywood for a cabinet I'm making and have run into some
> >> questions:
>
> >You don't need biscuits for edging. Just glue & clamping with a strip
> >of masking tape every 3-4 inches has worked really well for me. & it
> >is more accurate than biscuits.
>
> Masking tape? =A0What does that do?
Think of a 3/4" by 3/4" edging. I glue it to the edge of the plywood.
I use masking tape to hold it in place until the glue dries instead of
clamps or biscuits (or brads if you're a genuine Normite).
I put an 8" or so strip of masking tape on one side of the plywood
(perpendicular to the edge), pull it tight and stick it around the
edging to the other side of the plywood. This is my clamp. Like I
said, a strip every six inches, and Bob's your uncle.
Luigi
What they said above regarding biscuit thickness. I even think the
ones in the bottles in my garage expand and contract with seasons and
humidity.
I have a Dewalt and it is a little noisy. Remember that your machine
is a not-so-distant cousin to an angle grinder. It has a gears in the
end that change direction of rotation and speed. A little noisy by
design.
RonB
On Sat, 25 Jul 2009 00:18:31 GMT, "Lew Hodgett"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>"krw" wrote:
>
>> I may do that next time. I'll have to play with T&G techniques.
>> How
>> would you cut them? Using a shaper is cheating. ;-)
>
>If you ever get a chane to watch NYW, Norn does it with his table saw
>epuipped with a dado and a sacrifical fence.
Hmm, when I watched Norm he always had a specialized power tool to do
every operation. ;-)
>That would appear to be about the most simple and straight forward way
>to do the job.
That makes the tongues easy enough though getting the blade height
exactly right would be critical. The same with the groove? The panel
on end doesn't sound fun.
On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 14:17:27 +1200, Peter Huebner
<[email protected]> wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] says...
>>
>> A while back I bought a PC biscuit jointer and have just gotten an
>> excuse to use it. I broke it out today, planning to add an Ash edge
>> some plywood for a cabinet I'm making and have run into some
>> questions:
>>
>> 1. The biscuits seem pretty loose in the slot. I can move the boards
>> laterally a 64th or so. Is this normal? I thought they'd be more
>> like dowels and be quite tight. I know the idea is that they expand
>> when glued but the slop isn't giving me much confidence. My plywood
>> is somewhat warped so there is no way the biscuits are going to hold
>> the two pieces laterally. It seems I'm going to have to make some
>> cauls this weekend.
>>
>> 2. Is the PC jointer supposed to sound like a coffee grinder? I would
>> have expected the sound from HF, but not a "high end" jointer like the
>> PC. I can't feel any slop in the bearings so I don't think this
>> accounts for any slop, but thought I'd ask.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>
>I'm astonished at some of the replies. I use a Makita bisquit jointer
>with Lamello bisquits and there is NO slop, period. It requires firm
>pressure to insert 95% of the bisquits into the slot (I get the odd one
>that slides in easily) and I sometimes have to use pliers to remove them
>after a trial fit-up. Once coated with pva, I have to use a very small
>wooden mallet to centre bisquits if I haven't gotten them into the right
>place with my thumb, they're that tight.
Haven't tried the glue yet. It was apparent I was going to need to do
more alignment, so stopped.
>Hard to say if your bisquits are crap, or if the PC is sloppy/wobbly or
>if the blade is no good. My jointer sounds like a router, not like a
>coffee grinder ...
>
>Just for reference: I keep the lamello bisquits in a plastic bucket with
>the lid merely laid snugly on top, rather than pressed down (it's so
>tight, it's a pain to try and open if I seal it) and in my extremely
>humid climate I haven't had noticable problems with the bisquits
>swelling through sucking moisture from the air. The box-full of bisquits
>I am still using a.t.m. is about 5 years old.
I just recently bought both PC (#10) and Bosch (#20) biscuits. All
are sloppy in the slots (I just cut for #20, but it's the same blade).
I'm sorta limited in what I can buy around here so I'll try some
Lamello next time I order toys.
Max wrote:
> There must be something wrong with the blade or the arbor (shaft). The
> blade on mine cuts a slot just the right "thickness" to fit the
> thickness of the biscuit. Do you have a caliper (or even better a
> micrometer) Measure the thickness of the teeth on the blade. With the
> joiner setting on a smooth, flat surface, measure the distance between
> the blade and the surface. Rotate the blade (with the cord unplugged,
> heh, heh)
> and measure again. If there's a difference, it's the arbor, (shaft).
> The joiner has to be tight against the work and held tight so there's no
> chance for it to move up.
> Plunge *once* and back out. If you leave the blade in the slot more than
> a couple seconds it will make the slot larger.
> My son has the same PC joiner that I have and he has no problems either.
>
> Max
Not all biscuits are created equal. They're supposed to be 5/32" thick.
Quite a few brands aren't. Check the biscuit thickness first.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]
"Jack Stein" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I saw our buddy Norm build an exterior door and he used floating tenons
> and there was 1/4" at least on each side. He said it didn't matter as far
> as strength was concerned. I believe him.
>
I don't. In a good mortise and tenon joint, the wood bears all the load
with the glue just holding it together. With a sloppy fitting tenon, the
glue takes the strain. I was rather surprised that he did that.
On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 18:23:14 -0700 (PDT), mike from American Sycamore
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Jul 23, 9:13 pm, krw <[email protected]> wrote:
>> A while back I bought a PC biscuit jointer and have just gotten an
>> excuse to use it. I broke it out today, planning to add an Ash edge
>> some plywood for a cabinet I'm making and have run into some
>> questions:
>>
>> 1. The biscuits seem pretty loose in the slot. I can move the boards
>> laterally a 64th or so. Is this normal? I thought they'd be more
>> like dowels and be quite tight. I know the idea is that they expand
>> when glued but the slop isn't giving me much confidence. My plywood
>> is somewhat warped so there is no way the biscuits are going to hold
>> the two pieces laterally. It seems I'm going to have to make some
>> cauls this weekend.
>>
>> 2. Is the PC jointer supposed to sound like a coffee grinder? I would
>> have expected the sound from HF, but not a "high end" jointer like the
>> PC. I can't feel any slop in the bearings so I don't think this
>> accounts for any slop, but thought I'd ask.
>>
>> Thanks.
>
>yes this is normal...and yes the machine makes a weird noisei
Thanks again. I guess my expectations were a bit high. Oh, well,
it's certainly an easy tool to use, if not precisely what I expected.
"krw" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> A while back I bought a PC biscuit jointer and have just gotten an
> excuse to use it. I broke it out today, planning to add an Ash edge
> some plywood for a cabinet I'm making and have run into some
> questions:
>
> 1. The biscuits seem pretty loose in the slot. I can move the boards
> laterally a 64th or so. Is this normal?
Yes
I thought they'd be more
> like dowels and be quite tight.
Absolutely not.
I know the idea is that they expand
> when glued but the slop isn't giving me much confidence. My plywood
> is somewhat warped so there is no way the biscuits are going to hold
> the two pieces laterally.
Correct
It seems I'm going to have to make some
> cauls this weekend.
>
> 2. Is the PC jointer supposed to sound like a coffee grinder?
Probably not but they do.
I would have expected the sound from HF, but not a "high end" jointer like
the
> PC.
These days PC is middle of the road. I have 2 PC plate joiners. If you
want "high end" look at Lamello. Lamello is about the only "high end" plate
joiner.
http://www.lamello.com/en/products/wood-joining-system.html
I can't feel any slop in the bearings so I don't think this
> accounts for any slop, but thought I'd ask.
Biscuits tend to be extremely inconsistent in thickness.
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
> A while back I bought a PC biscuit jointer and have just gotten an
> excuse to use it. I broke it out today, planning to add an Ash edge
> some plywood for a cabinet I'm making and have run into some
> questions:
>
> 1. The biscuits seem pretty loose in the slot. I can move the boards
> laterally a 64th or so. Is this normal? I thought they'd be more
> like dowels and be quite tight. I know the idea is that they expand
> when glued but the slop isn't giving me much confidence. My plywood
> is somewhat warped so there is no way the biscuits are going to hold
> the two pieces laterally. It seems I'm going to have to make some
> cauls this weekend.
>
> 2. Is the PC jointer supposed to sound like a coffee grinder? I would
> have expected the sound from HF, but not a "high end" jointer like the
> PC. I can't feel any slop in the bearings so I don't think this
> accounts for any slop, but thought I'd ask.
>
> Thanks.
>
I'm astonished at some of the replies. I use a Makita bisquit jointer
with Lamello bisquits and there is NO slop, period. It requires firm
pressure to insert 95% of the bisquits into the slot (I get the odd one
that slides in easily) and I sometimes have to use pliers to remove them
after a trial fit-up. Once coated with pva, I have to use a very small
wooden mallet to centre bisquits if I haven't gotten them into the right
place with my thumb, they're that tight.
Hard to say if your bisquits are crap, or if the PC is sloppy/wobbly or
if the blade is no good. My jointer sounds like a router, not like a
coffee grinder ...
Just for reference: I keep the lamello bisquits in a plastic bucket with
the lid merely laid snugly on top, rather than pressed down (it's so
tight, it's a pain to try and open if I seal it) and in my extremely
humid climate I haven't had noticable problems with the bisquits
swelling through sucking moisture from the air. The box-full of bisquits
I am still using a.t.m. is about 5 years old.
-P.
Now if you really want to be wowed and have a high end tool that produces
superior results and much much much stronger joints consider,
http://www.festoolusa.com/products/domino-joining-system/domino-df-500-joining-system-574258.html
Since purchacing this tool 2 years ago I have not seen either of my PC
joiners.
"krw" wrote
>
> I'm a little familiar with it. The PC wasn't cheap (over $200) and I
> am a disappointed in its operation. It really does sound like it has
> bad bearings. My guess is it's a cheap worm gear in the right angle
> drive.
>
> > I can't feel any slop in the bearings so I don't think this
> >> accounts for any slop, but thought I'd ask.
> >
> >Biscuits tend to be extremely inconsistent in thickness.
>
> They all seem sloppy.
I have a PC 557 type 2 I bought a few years ago It had an alignment
issue with the fence but I added Owen Lowe's shim and cured that
problem. The newer type 3's don't have the problem. Mine sounds
like my angle grinder and I assume it is due to the same square cut bevel
gears. Hypoid cut gears would be much quieter but cost much more.
Initially my slots were too wide and it was due to poor technique. A bit of
practice fixed that. I have found that the PC biscuits are quite consistent
in thickness. The ones at the Despot were pure crap ( I forgot the brand).
Rockler's are ok with just an occasional fat one. I haven't tried any others.
I store mine in some old Tupperware and haven't had a problem with them
swelling here in Oregon.
Art
"krw" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 07:44:43 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
> If I spent $800 on a tool that I could lift I'd better like it a lot
> because I'd be sleeping with it.
Different strokes!
"Jack Stein" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
the biscuits
>> are compressed at the factory, and designed to swell when they get wet.
>
> What happens when the water evaporates?
They were mechanically compressed. When they get wet, they expand to the
point they used to be in. They will stay that way.
> Could it be these things are over rated,
Highly. I rarely find a use for mine.
<[email protected]> wrote in message >
>Can you elaborate what about your technique caused the slots to be too
>wide? I don't see much that would effect the slot width. I'm in
>Eastern Alabama so humidity (in the garage) is certainly an issue.
>The PC and Bosch biscuits came in a plastic "bottle" with a screw top,
>so should be good that way.
>
I had the most problems when cutting the face of ply next to the edge
to make case goods. There is only 3/4" of edge for the fence to catch and
the cutter face didn't have much more. Anyway, I let the tail of the joiner
droop as I was plunging and I ended up with wide slots.
Some other things that can cause a wide slot:
Sawdust under the fence that compresses during plunging.
Multiple plunging. Plunge ONCE, quickly.
A gummed up cutter blade.
I hope these help.
Art
On Jul 23, 11:18=A0pm, "Artemus" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "krw" =A0wrote
>
>
>
> > I'm a little familiar with it. =A0The PC wasn't cheap (over $200) and I
> > am a disappointed in its operation. =A0It really does sound like it has
> > bad bearings. =A0My guess is it's a cheap worm gear in the right angle
> > drive.
>
> > > I can't feel any slop in the bearings so I don't think this
> > >> accounts for any slop, but thought I'd ask.
>
> > >Biscuits tend to be extremely inconsistent in thickness.
>
> > They all seem sloppy.
>
> I have a PC 557 type 2 I bought a few years ago =A0It had an alignment
> issue with the fence but I added Owen Lowe's shim and cured that
> problem. =A0The newer type 3's don't have the problem. =A0Mine sounds
> like my angle grinder and I assume it is due to the same square cut bevel
> gears. =A0Hypoid cut gears would be much quieter but cost much more.
If a $50 drill can use them, I'd think a $200+ slot cutter could. :-
( The only thing I see of value on the PC slot cutter is the fence.
The rest is crap. I suppose the fence is the important part, but...
> Initially my slots were too wide and it was due to poor technique. =A0A b=
it of
> practice fixed that. =A0I have found that the PC biscuits are quite consi=
stent
> in thickness. =A0The ones at the Despot were pure crap ( I forgot the bra=
nd).
> Rockler's are ok with just an occasional fat one. =A0I haven't tried any =
others.
> I store mine in some old Tupperware and haven't had a problem with them
> swelling here in Oregon.
Can you elaborate what about your technique caused the slots to be too
wide? I don't see much that would effect the slot width. I'm in
Eastern Alabama so humidity (in the garage) is certainly an issue.
The PC and Bosch biscuits came in a plastic "bottle" with a screw top,
so should be good that way.
"krw" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> I was hoping I could use the biscuits for alignment. That's not
> happening so I might just as well skip them. BTW, the plywood and
> edging is 3/4" (nominal 23/32").
Instead of using the front handle of the 557, hold your hand against the
top of the fence to secure it down on the ply. If you're still getting too
much slop and the edging ends up lower than the face veneer, add a layer
of masking tape to the bottom of the fence for cutting the ply. Remove it
prior to cutting the edging. This will raise the edging by the thickness of the
tape. Be sure to index the 557 from the faces of both pieces.
Art
On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 08:51:05 -0600, "Max" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"krw" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 14:17:27 +1200, Peter Huebner
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>In article <[email protected]>,
>>>[email protected] says...
>>>>
>>>> A while back I bought a PC biscuit jointer and have just gotten an
>>>> excuse to use it. I broke it out today, planning to add an Ash edge
>>>> some plywood for a cabinet I'm making and have run into some
>>>> questions:
>>>>
>>>> 1. The biscuits seem pretty loose in the slot. I can move the boards
>>>> laterally a 64th or so. Is this normal? I thought they'd be more
>>>> like dowels and be quite tight. I know the idea is that they expand
>>>> when glued but the slop isn't giving me much confidence. My plywood
>>>> is somewhat warped so there is no way the biscuits are going to hold
>>>> the two pieces laterally. It seems I'm going to have to make some
>>>> cauls this weekend.
>>>>
>>>> 2. Is the PC jointer supposed to sound like a coffee grinder? I would
>>>> have expected the sound from HF, but not a "high end" jointer like the
>>>> PC. I can't feel any slop in the bearings so I don't think this
>>>> accounts for any slop, but thought I'd ask.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>
>>>I'm astonished at some of the replies. I use a Makita bisquit jointer
>>>with Lamello bisquits and there is NO slop, period. It requires firm
>>>pressure to insert 95% of the bisquits into the slot (I get the odd one
>>>that slides in easily) and I sometimes have to use pliers to remove them
>>>after a trial fit-up. Once coated with pva, I have to use a very small
>>>wooden mallet to centre bisquits if I haven't gotten them into the right
>>>place with my thumb, they're that tight.
>>
>> Haven't tried the glue yet. It was apparent I was going to need to do
>> more alignment, so stopped.
>>
>>>Hard to say if your bisquits are crap, or if the PC is sloppy/wobbly or
>>>if the blade is no good. My jointer sounds like a router, not like a
>>>coffee grinder ...
>>>
>>>Just for reference: I keep the lamello bisquits in a plastic bucket with
>>>the lid merely laid snugly on top, rather than pressed down (it's so
>>>tight, it's a pain to try and open if I seal it) and in my extremely
>>>humid climate I haven't had noticable problems with the bisquits
>>>swelling through sucking moisture from the air. The box-full of bisquits
>>>I am still using a.t.m. is about 5 years old.
>>
>> I just recently bought both PC (#10) and Bosch (#20) biscuits. All
>> are sloppy in the slots (I just cut for #20, but it's the same blade).
>> I'm sorta limited in what I can buy around here so I'll try some
>> Lamello next time I order toys.
>
>I have a PC joiner and use (mostly) Bosch biscuits. (because they're the
>most available here).
>The biscuits fit snug but not so tight that they can't be removed before
>gluing.
>There is plenty of room for lateral adjustment; I think that was an
>intentional design.
"Latteral" was a poor choice of words on my part. I meant that the
edge alignment is off by as much as 1/64" either way. That is, the
biscuit rattles from top to bottom (board laying flat) in the slot
about 1/64". Side to side the slop is at least 1/8", maybe 1/4".
On Jul 23, 9:13=A0pm, krw <[email protected]> wrote:
> A while back I bought a PC biscuit jointer and have just gotten an
> excuse to use it. =A0I broke it out today, planning to add an Ash edge
> some plywood for a cabinet I'm making and have run into some
> questions:
>
> 1. The biscuits seem pretty loose in the slot. =A0I can move the boards
> laterally a 64th or so. =A0Is this normal? =A0I thought they'd be more
> like dowels and be quite tight. =A0I know the idea is that they expand
> when glued but the slop isn't giving me much confidence. =A0My plywood
> is somewhat warped so there is no way the biscuits are going to hold
> the two pieces laterally. =A0It seems I'm going to have to make some
> cauls this weekend.
>
> 2. Is the PC jointer supposed to sound like a coffee grinder? =A0I would
> have expected the sound from HF, but not a "high end" jointer like the
> PC. =A0I can't feel any slop in the bearings so I don't think this
> accounts for any slop, but thought I'd ask.
>
> Thanks.
yes this is normal...and yes the machine makes a weird noisei
On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 18:54:58 -0600, "Max" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"krw" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 08:51:05 -0600, "Max" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"krw" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>news:[email protected]...
>>>> On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 14:17:27 +1200, Peter Huebner
>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>In article <[email protected]>,
>>>>>[email protected] says...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A while back I bought a PC biscuit jointer and have just gotten an
>>>>>> excuse to use it. I broke it out today, planning to add an Ash edge
>>>>>> some plywood for a cabinet I'm making and have run into some
>>>>>> questions:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. The biscuits seem pretty loose in the slot. I can move the boards
>>>>>> laterally a 64th or so. Is this normal? I thought they'd be more
>>>>>> like dowels and be quite tight. I know the idea is that they expand
>>>>>> when glued but the slop isn't giving me much confidence. My plywood
>>>>>> is somewhat warped so there is no way the biscuits are going to hold
>>>>>> the two pieces laterally. It seems I'm going to have to make some
>>>>>> cauls this weekend.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2. Is the PC jointer supposed to sound like a coffee grinder? I would
>>>>>> have expected the sound from HF, but not a "high end" jointer like the
>>>>>> PC. I can't feel any slop in the bearings so I don't think this
>>>>>> accounts for any slop, but thought I'd ask.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I'm astonished at some of the replies. I use a Makita bisquit jointer
>>>>>with Lamello bisquits and there is NO slop, period. It requires firm
>>>>>pressure to insert 95% of the bisquits into the slot (I get the odd one
>>>>>that slides in easily) and I sometimes have to use pliers to remove them
>>>>>after a trial fit-up. Once coated with pva, I have to use a very small
>>>>>wooden mallet to centre bisquits if I haven't gotten them into the right
>>>>>place with my thumb, they're that tight.
>>>>
>>>> Haven't tried the glue yet. It was apparent I was going to need to do
>>>> more alignment, so stopped.
>>>>
>>>>>Hard to say if your bisquits are crap, or if the PC is sloppy/wobbly or
>>>>>if the blade is no good. My jointer sounds like a router, not like a
>>>>>coffee grinder ...
>>>>>
>>>>>Just for reference: I keep the lamello bisquits in a plastic bucket with
>>>>>the lid merely laid snugly on top, rather than pressed down (it's so
>>>>>tight, it's a pain to try and open if I seal it) and in my extremely
>>>>>humid climate I haven't had noticable problems with the bisquits
>>>>>swelling through sucking moisture from the air. The box-full of bisquits
>>>>>I am still using a.t.m. is about 5 years old.
>>>>
>>>> I just recently bought both PC (#10) and Bosch (#20) biscuits. All
>>>> are sloppy in the slots (I just cut for #20, but it's the same blade).
>>>> I'm sorta limited in what I can buy around here so I'll try some
>>>> Lamello next time I order toys.
>>>
>>>I have a PC joiner and use (mostly) Bosch biscuits. (because they're the
>>>most available here).
>>>The biscuits fit snug but not so tight that they can't be removed before
>>>gluing.
>>>There is plenty of room for lateral adjustment; I think that was an
>>>intentional design.
>>
>> "Latteral" was a poor choice of words on my part. I meant that the
>> edge alignment is off by as much as 1/64" either way. That is, the
>> biscuit rattles from top to bottom (board laying flat) in the slot
>> about 1/64". Side to side the slop is at least 1/8", maybe 1/4".
>
>There must be something wrong with the blade or the arbor (shaft). The blade
>on mine cuts a slot just the right "thickness" to fit the thickness of the
>biscuit. Do you have a caliper (or even better a micrometer) Measure the
>thickness of the teeth on the blade.
The biscuits are a bit undersized; .150-.156. The carbide tangs on
cutter blade are a bit over at the tips; .162. I guess the difference
comes close to the 1/64" I estimated the slop to be.
>With the joiner setting on a smooth,
>flat surface, measure the distance between the blade and the surface.
>Rotate the blade (with the cord unplugged, heh, heh)
>and measure again. If there's a difference, it's the arbor, (shaft).
>The joiner has to be tight against the work and held tight so there's no
>chance for it to move up.
That's easier to describe than to do. ;-)
>Plunge *once* and back out. If you leave the blade in the slot more than a
>couple seconds it will make the slot larger.
>My son has the same PC joiner that I have and he has no problems either.
I practiced a bit with it this afternoon (got too hot in the garage)
but I think I was doing it right. The fence isn't going anywhere when
I plunge the cutter and the slop is still there. I'm in the process
of gluing up some cauls so haven't gone any further with the panels.
I'll try glue on the biscuits when I have the cauls to do the
alignment.
"CW" wrote:
>> Could it be these things are over rated,
>
> Highly. I rarely find a use for mine.
You would truly appreciate an episode of AmericamWoodShop where are
boy Scott used biscuits rather than basic joinery to build a computer
table.
Along with cutting pieces on the T/S with the blade inclined toward
the fence and a few more choice moves, but well you get the idea.
Lew
In article <[email protected]>, krw <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>A while back I bought a PC biscuit jointer and have just gotten an
>excuse to use it. I broke it out today, planning to add an Ash edge
>some plywood for a cabinet I'm making and have run into some
>questions:
>
>1. The biscuits seem pretty loose in the slot. I can move the boards
>laterally a 64th or so. Is this normal? I thought they'd be more
>like dowels and be quite tight. I know the idea is that they expand
>when glued but the slop isn't giving me much confidence. My plywood
>is somewhat warped so there is no way the biscuits are going to hold
>the two pieces laterally. It seems I'm going to have to make some
>cauls this weekend.
>
>2. Is the PC jointer supposed to sound like a coffee grinder? I would
>have expected the sound from HF, but not a "high end" jointer like the
>PC. I can't feel any slop in the bearings so I don't think this
>accounts for any slop, but thought I'd ask.
Perfectly normal on both counts. The biscuits will be plenty tight once you
put a little glue on them -- as long as it's water-based glue. Using a
urethane glue (e.g. Gorilla Glue) kind of defeats the purpose... the biscuits
are compressed at the factory, and designed to swell when they get wet.
Warning: wait *at least* overnight before sanding, planing, or scraping any
boards that were biscuit-joined. The biscuits swell, the wood above them
swells, and if you sand/plane/scrape too soon, when the wood dries, you'll
have biscuit-shaped depressions in the surface.
Doug Miller wrote:
> Perfectly normal on both counts. The biscuits will be plenty tight once you
> put a little glue on them -- as long as it's water-based glue. Using a
> urethane glue (e.g. Gorilla Glue) kind of defeats the purpose... the biscuits
> are compressed at the factory, and designed to swell when they get wet.
What happens when the water evaporates?
> Warning: wait *at least* overnight before sanding, planing, or scraping any
> boards that were biscuit-joined. The biscuits swell, the wood above them
> swells, and if you sand/plane/scrape too soon, when the wood dries, you'll
> have biscuit-shaped depressions in the surface.
I dunno, the more I read about these things, the less I see a use for
them? Someone in this thread said to use cauls, along with the
biscuits? I don't need biscuits if I use cauls, and I don't need them
for strength on long grain joints. Mortise and tenon joints are used on
edge grain to long grain joints. On face frames like on kitchen
cabinets or bathroom vanity, I usually run a dado in the face frame and
a lip on the cabinet side, so I guess I could use biscuits there? Could
it be these things are over rated, or a tool in search of a use?
--
Jack
Using FREE News Server: http://www.eternal-september.org/
http://jbstein.com
Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "CW" wrote:
>
>>> Could it be these things are over rated,
>> Highly. I rarely find a use for mine.
>
> You would truly appreciate an episode of AmericamWoodShop where are
> boy Scott used biscuits rather than basic joinery to build a computer
> table.
>
> Along with cutting pieces on the T/S with the blade inclined toward
> the fence and a few more choice moves, but well you get the idea.
I just watched him build a corner cabinet, and all the shelves were
screwed in with pocket screws. In fact, he put the entire cabinet
together with pocket screws I think. I have nothing against pocket
screws, or plate joinery, but really, there is always a time and a
place. Scott does a lot of things *I* consider bad form. The other day
he was cutting tapers on a leg using the band saw... This is something
normally done on the table saw... Stuff like this make the show worth
watching.
--
Jack
Using FREE News Server: http://www.eternal-september.org/
http://jbstein.com
krw wrote:
> "Latteral" was a poor choice of words on my part. I meant that the
> edge alignment is off by as much as 1/64" either way. That is, the
> biscuit rattles from top to bottom (board laying flat) in the slot
> about 1/64".
I think this would be fine by me. I don't recall every joining two
boards that needed no sanding. 1/128th on each side would make me happy.
Side to side the slop is at least 1/8", maybe 1/4".
I don't believe this matters. I saw our buddy Norm build an exterior
door and he used floating tenons and there was 1/4" at least on each
side. He said it didn't matter as far as strength was concerned. I
believe him.
--
Jack
Using FREE News Server: http://www.eternal-september.org/
http://jbstein.com
"krw" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I was hoping I could use the biscuits for alignment. That's not
> happening so I might just as well skip them. BTW, the plywood and
> edging is 3/4" (nominal 23/32").
They were made to do just that job, and does it rather well. Surely you have
some scraps left over to test it on first? Just 10 minutes of shop time will
allay or confirm your doubts.
krw wrote:
> 00, Jack Stein wrote:
>> krw wrote:
>>> "Latteral" was a poor choice of words on my part. I meant that the
>>> edge alignment is off by as much as 1/64" either way. That is, the
>>> biscuit rattles from top to bottom (board laying flat) in the slot
>>> about 1/64".
>> I think this would be fine by me. I don't recall every joining two
>> boards that needed no sanding. 1/128th on each side would make me happy.
>
> Would 1/64" on *both* sides make you happy? That's what we're talking
> about.
I guess it would depend on how much sanding was needed to smooth things
out. I think 1/64th would sand out w/o much fuss.
>> Side to side the slop is at least 1/8", maybe 1/4".
>> I don't believe this matters. I saw our buddy Norm build an exterior
>> door and he used floating tenons and there was 1/4" at least on each
>> side. He said it didn't matter as far as strength was concerned. I
>> believe him.
> I didn't mean that it mattered. I was just clarifying which
> dimensions I was talking about.
OK, you made that clear. I was just mentioning what Norm said about
side to side clearance in a large, heavy, exterior door. I was rather
surprised that he did that. I always use a square mortiser but note
that those that use a router generally either square up the mortise, or
round over the edges of the tenon to fit the mortise. After seeing Norm
do this, and specifically comment that side to side slop was not an
issue, I would say putting a square tenon in a rounded mortise would
also be a non-issue, but perhaps thought provoking...
--
Jack
Using FREE News Server: http://www.eternal-september.org/
http://jbstein.com
krw wrote:
> Some time back I tried that with a RAS and a "glue joint" cutter in a
> molding head. Not so easy.
Glue joint cutters are a PIA to set up exactly right. I quickly learned
they are not needed, nor are splines, biscuits, dowels or anything else
when gluing up panels. I've done all those methods except the biscuit
joiner. Considering some of the people that love a biscuit joiner, I
haven't ruled them out, just that for me, as much as I build these days,
doesn't seem worth the trouble or expense. I never had any trouble
simply using clamps and cauls. I never had a glue failure in a simple,
butted glued up panel or table top so the only use for me would be as an
aid in alignment. I can certainly see some value in that aspect, but
NOT if I also need to use cauls. I would expect the biscuit joiner to
eliminate the need for cauls, otherwise, the cauls eliminate the need
for a biscuit joiner:-)
--
Jack
Using FREE News Server: http://www.eternal-september.org/
http://jbstein.com
On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 08:58:30 -0600, "Max" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"krw" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 19:28:52 -0700, "CW" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>I have a biscuit joiner that gets used maybe once a year. It's good for
>>>alignment if +- 1/64 is close enough. For edging, such as you are doing, I
>>>wouldn't use it. There are more accurate ways. I really don't find the
>>>biscuit joiner to be much use.
>>
>> Seems to be two schools of thought; love 'em or hate 'em. Thought I'd
>> see which side I came down on. What type of joint would you use for
>> edging? BTW, the edge board I'm doing is about 4" wide; a little less
>> after I rip everything down to final size.
>>
>> <snip>
>
>I've done quite a bit of edge joining for making table tops, that sort of
>thing, and never had a problem with biscuits but I can't recall ever joining
>anything less than 3/4" thick. For an edge along side plywood I just glue
>the edge in place. No biscuits, no tongue and groove) No problems.
I was hoping I could use the biscuits for alignment. That's not
happening so I might just as well skip them. BTW, the plywood and
edging is 3/4" (nominal 23/32").
On Sat, 25 Jul 2009 08:26:19 -0500, Jack Stein <[email protected]>
wrote:
>krw wrote:
>
>> "Latteral" was a poor choice of words on my part. I meant that the
>> edge alignment is off by as much as 1/64" either way. That is, the
>> biscuit rattles from top to bottom (board laying flat) in the slot
>> about 1/64".
>
>I think this would be fine by me. I don't recall every joining two
>boards that needed no sanding. 1/128th on each side would make me happy.
Would 1/64" on *both* sides make you happy? That's what we're talking
about.
>Side to side the slop is at least 1/8", maybe 1/4".
>
>I don't believe this matters. I saw our buddy Norm build an exterior
>door and he used floating tenons and there was 1/4" at least on each
>side. He said it didn't matter as far as strength was concerned. I
>believe him.
I didn't mean that it mattered. I was just clarifying which
dimensions I was talking about.
On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 18:57:03 -0600, "Max" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"krw" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 03:59:55 GMT, "Lew Hodgett"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"krw" wrote:
>>>
>>>> What type of joint would you use for
>>>> edging? BTW, the edge board I'm doing is about 4" wide; a little
>>>> less
>>>> after I rip everything down to final size.
>>>
>>>
>>>Given a choice, I'd use tongue and groove.
>>>
>>>Tongue in the wood, groove in the plywood, forget the biscuits except
>>>at the corner miters in the wood.
>>
>> I may do that next time. I'll have to play with T&G techniques. How
>> would you cut them? Using a shaper is cheating. ;-)
>
>I have matching router bits. One cuts the tongue and the other cuts the
>groove.
>You have set the height just right but it works just fine.
^
twice.
Some time back I tried that with a RAS and a "glue joint" cutter in a
molding head. Not so easy.
"krw" wrote:
> That makes the tongues easy enough though getting the blade height
> exactly right would be critical. The same with the groove? The
> panel
> on end doesn't sound fun.
It's a piece of cake, have done it several times.
The plywood will be some bastard size, thus a digital vernier caliper
is a must to accurately plane the wood to match the ply thickness.
Set the dado to 1/4" wide x 9/32" deep.
Use featherboards as req'd.
Run ply thru them turn end for end and run thru again to center
groove.
CUt tongue 1/4" long.
Sneak up on the tongue thickness by setting using a scrap piece and
testing scrap piece for fit after every cut.
If it takes more than an hour for the whole thing, you spent at least
a half an hour screwing around.
It's just not that difficult a task.
Cutting the mitered ends to size and cutting biscuit slots in the
miters is the most challenging part of the project, IMHO.
Have fun.
Lew
On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 07:44:43 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Now if you really want to be wowed and have a high end tool that produces
>superior results and much much much stronger joints consider,
>
>http://www.festoolusa.com/products/domino-joining-system/domino-df-500-joining-system-574258.html
>
>Since purchacing this tool 2 years ago I have not seen either of my PC
>joiners.
If I spent $800 on a tool that I could lift I'd better like it a lot
because I'd be sleeping with it.
I have a biscuit joiner that gets used maybe once a year. It's good for
alignment if +- 1/64 is close enough. For edging, such as you are doing, I
wouldn't use it. There are more accurate ways. I really don't find the
biscuit joiner to be much use.
"krw" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> A while back I bought a PC biscuit jointer and have just gotten an
> excuse to use it. I broke it out today, planning to add an Ash edge
> some plywood for a cabinet I'm making and have run into some
> questions:
>
> 1. The biscuits seem pretty loose in the slot. I can move the boards
> laterally a 64th or so. Is this normal? I thought they'd be more
> like dowels and be quite tight. I know the idea is that they expand
> when glued but the slop isn't giving me much confidence. My plywood
> is somewhat warped so there is no way the biscuits are going to hold
> the two pieces laterally. It seems I'm going to have to make some
> cauls this weekend.
>
> 2. Is the PC jointer supposed to sound like a coffee grinder? I would
> have expected the sound from HF, but not a "high end" jointer like the
> PC. I can't feel any slop in the bearings so I don't think this
> accounts for any slop, but thought I'd ask.
>
> Thanks.
"krw" wrote:
> I may do that next time. I'll have to play with T&G techniques.
> How
> would you cut them? Using a shaper is cheating. ;-)
If you ever get a chane to watch NYW, Norn does it with his table saw
epuipped with a dado and a sacrifical fence.
That would appear to be about the most simple and straight forward way
to do the job.
Have fun.
Lew
On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 20:13:22 -0500, krw <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>A while back I bought a PC biscuit jointer and have just gotten an
>excuse to use it. I broke it out today, planning to add an Ash edge
>some plywood for a cabinet I'm making and have run into some
>questions:
>
>1. The biscuits seem pretty loose in the slot. I can move the boards
>laterally a 64th or so. Is this normal? I thought they'd be more
>like dowels and be quite tight. I know the idea is that they expand
>when glued but the slop isn't giving me much confidence. My plywood
>is somewhat warped so there is no way the biscuits are going to hold
>the two pieces laterally. It seems I'm going to have to make some
>cauls this weekend.
>
>2. Is the PC jointer supposed to sound like a coffee grinder? I would
>have expected the sound from HF, but not a "high end" jointer like the
>PC. I can't feel any slop in the bearings so I don't think this
>accounts for any slop, but thought I'd ask.
>
>Thanks.
The biscuits move pretty freely along their length. Across their
width, they're usually snug but not tight -- they slip in and out of
the slot easily and yeah, they might rattle around by a 64th, I guess.
But that all changes once you apply the glue. They swell up and after
a few seconds you'd have a hard time pulling them out if you wanted
to. (Experiment on a piece of scrap wood -- you'll see what I mean.)
Yeah, the PC is noisy and a bit rough sounding and now that you
mention it, a lot like my coffee grinder. Not to worry.
(And if you want a really interesting sound, remove the
dust-collection canister and hook up a shop vac hose to catch the
chips. It sounds like a fire siren!)
Reply-to address is real
John
On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 20:13:22 -0500, krw <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>A while back I bought a PC biscuit jointer and have just gotten an
>excuse to use it. I broke it out today, planning to add an Ash edge
>some plywood for a cabinet I'm making and have run into some
>questions:
>
>1. The biscuits seem pretty loose in the slot. I can move the boards
>laterally a 64th or so. Is this normal? I thought they'd be more
>like dowels and be quite tight. I know the idea is that they expand
>when glued but the slop isn't giving me much confidence. My plywood
>is somewhat warped so there is no way the biscuits are going to hold
>the two pieces laterally. It seems I'm going to have to make some
>cauls this weekend.
>
Some biscuits may be a better fit than others. No so tight that you
have to tap them in. A 1/64 slop might be OK for some applications,
but certainly not fine cabinetry.
>2. Is the PC jointer supposed to sound like a coffee grinder? I would
>have expected the sound from HF, but not a "high end" jointer like the
>PC. I can't feel any slop in the bearings so I don't think this
>accounts for any slop, but thought I'd ask.
>
>Thanks.
Come to think of it, my biscuit cutter *does* sound like a loud coffee
grinder. It is an old Skil biscuit jointer with plastic fence, but
does the job exceptionally well at 1 fifth the cost of a Lamello
biscuit cutter. Lamello biscuits are very good if you can find them;
store them in a dry location and don't buy too much at a time (they
are somewhat expensive and may get damaged from moisture).
"krw" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I practiced a bit with it this afternoon (got too hot in the garage)
> but I think I was doing it right. The fence isn't going anywhere when
> I plunge the cutter and the slop is still there. I'm in the process
> of gluing up some cauls so haven't gone any further with the panels.
> I'll try glue on the biscuits when I have the cauls to do the
> alignment.
Try it on scrap first. You will find that, with the glue on the biscuts,
they will swell and lock in place. If the alignment is good, great. If it is
not, the cauls won't help.