I'm very interested in doing a SPF floor.
I would like to use 1x4 stained in varying translucent greens.
The cost of unfinished hardwoods for this is huge.
I realize the wood is very soft but for my purpose dents and marks add to the
appeal. As long as the floor can be kept clean.
But I'm not sure about the best way to finish it so the clear finish 'bends' and
doesn't crack.
Also because of 'shrinkage' what would be the best way to put this down.
T&G would be tough for me to do.
Running splines is pretty easy though but will they work.
Can I use glue?
If I do get cracks what product could be stained green and used to fill them?
I've never put down a wood floor of any type so this could be a real adventure.
It not a huge space so if it screws up covering it with carpet would be no big
deal.
On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 10:40:59 -0500, "George" <george@least> wrote:
>Quartersawn, and not a fir. Sounds like a good rebuttal.
>
I select all my best 1 inch SPF to have at least the appearance of quarter sawn
boards. This type of board IIIIIIIIII at least in the 1x4 size is not that
uncommon here.:)
Will this help reduce splinters?
>"Fly-by-Night CC" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> In article <[email protected]>, "George" <george@least>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > S*F. Spruce and fir.
>> >
>> > Both feature hard latewood and very soft earlywood. Every annual ring
>is a
>> > splinter in the making. There is no answer except not to wear the
>floor.
>> >
>> > Eastern white pine is another matter.
>>
>> I've got an old (c.1920) home with Douglas Fir floors. They appear
>> quartersawn and rarely give up splinters. I can only remember one or two
>> in the nearly 10 years I've lived here.
>
Gino wrote:
> I'm very interested in doing a SPF floor.
Southern Pine Fir
Spalted Peach Featherboard
Spruce Paper Ficus
I can't figure out what SPF stands for. Some kind of softwood by the rest
of the post.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/
One word - splinters.
"Gino" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> I'm very interested in doing a SPF floor.
> I would like to use 1x4 stained in varying translucent greens.
> The cost of unfinished hardwoods for this is huge.
>
> I realize the wood is very soft but for my purpose dents and marks add to
the
> appeal.
S*F. Spruce and fir.
Both feature hard latewood and very soft earlywood. Every annual ring is a
splinter in the making. There is no answer except not to wear the floor.
Eastern white pine is another matter.
"Gino" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 16:12:53 -0500, "George" <george@least> wrote:
>
> >One word - splinters.
> >
> I need to read the words that tell me how to resolve that.
> I was raised in a very old dilapidated house with painted pine floors.
Most of
> the paint was gone and I don't recall getting splinters.:)
>
> >"Gino" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> >>
> >> I'm very interested in doing a SPF floor.
> >> I would like to use 1x4 stained in varying translucent greens.
> >> The cost of unfinished hardwoods for this is huge.
> >>
> >> I realize the wood is very soft but for my purpose dents and marks add
to
> >the
> >> appeal.
> >
>
Quartersawn, and not a fir. Sounds like a good rebuttal.
"Fly-by-Night CC" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, "George" <george@least>
> wrote:
>
> > S*F. Spruce and fir.
> >
> > Both feature hard latewood and very soft earlywood. Every annual ring
is a
> > splinter in the making. There is no answer except not to wear the
floor.
> >
> > Eastern white pine is another matter.
>
> I've got an old (c.1920) home with Douglas Fir floors. They appear
> quartersawn and rarely give up splinters. I can only remember one or two
> in the nearly 10 years I've lived here.
Standard factory floor until at least the 20's was end-grain blocks.
"Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> At an IBM lab in Kingston, New York - in a /huge/ space where I
> was told every System 360 ever produced had been wheeled in for
> final product test. I'm not sure for what the area was used
> before that, or how it's being used now.
>
"Fly-by-Night CC" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, "George" <george@least>
> wrote:
>
> > Quartersawn, and not a fir
>
> Douglas Fir is not a fir?
>
> As to the cut of the wood, the OP didn't state how his floor would be
> sliced - so quartersawing it might alleviate any splintering that
> flatsawn could be prone to.
>
My assumption, and obviously it's as advertised, is that his use of the SPF
abbreviation meant he was going to try and make a floor out of "whitewood"
strips. For those who haven't looked, that's the stamp on the common
two-by-four. Lumber pulled from such a grab bag would most definitely
_not_ be quartersawn - or clear - as was your (notice the "Hemlock"
reference) Douglas Fir, nor is it known for being available from old growth.
Rather the opposite, it is normally taken from plantation thinnings. Ever
notice how you can have heart and wane on the same two by? Up north they
even make it out of Jack pine, which comes as close as any tree I've seen to
being a waste of the ground it grows on.
For those who doubt its suitability as flooring, take a second look at those
SPF treasures on the pile at your local yard.
SYP - Southern Yellow Pine is still used as flooring, but its density is
more uniform, as is P strobus, though the latter is much softer and lighter.
I would suggest storing it in an environment very similiar to the
environment the boards will be installed into.
If possible, i put the flooring in the house in which it will be installed
and leave it alone for two weeks or so for acclimation. So far, no major
problems, even with T&G oak, etc. As far as coloring the poly, I've never
done this, but you certainly can experiment and report back to the
roup! --dave
"Gino" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 23:41:07 GMT, "Dave Jackson" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>I put 1x12 pine flooring in our colonial homes (per the GC's spec) and
>>ship
>>lap the boards. A ship lap is basically two rabbets, which overlap each
>>other. The 1x12's are run through a shaper and then the edges are eased
>>slightly with a pass or two with a block plane along the edges. the
>>boards
>>are then face nailed with these 2 1/2" cut nails:
>>http://store.tremontnail.com/cgi-bin/tremontnail/items?mv_arg=26 If you
>>are careful about selecting your boards, (or have a jointer) any gaps
>>between the boards can be minimised, or just left alone if you like the
>>"aged" look. Easing the edges with a plane will give a shadow line which
>>can also help hide small gaps
>
> No jointer, but I get good results with my router . Small gaps are just
> fine and
> a shadow line would be great.
> I'm concerned about minimizing shrinkage.
> My drying method is to store lumber high up under my 10 foot ceiling in a
> 65
> degree shop for a couple months.
> How long is long enough for construction grade. The lumber comes KD and
> this is
> a dry area.
> I really don't want to invest in a moisture meter.
>
>
>
>>If you're looking to blind nail and want tight fitting boards, T&G is the
>>way to go. So far, the 3 coats of water based poly (again spec'd by GC, I
>>personally prefer oil based) has held up with out customer complaints.
>>Hope
>>this helps--dave
>>
> Thank, it does.
> Can you color water based poly. I would like a yellow tint.
>
>
BAH
If planed, stained, and varnished, splinters are not a problem. Yellow pine
is very hard, but some of the others can be dented by hard pointy objects.
I have a very soft one in my BR. Six yr with no problem. You really should
get T&G, lay it tight with nails, and finish with water based urethane. T&G
helps maintain the elevations of the edges, whicg minimizes the tendency to
splinter. With the WB, you get several coats/day and very little smell.
You can T&G on a shaper or large router, but it's time consuming and any
warpage is really hard to deal with. Be sure to get T&G bits that relieve
the lower edge of the grooved board. This makes sure the top edges pull up
tight.
The big orbital sander from HD rental makes a great finish when the mesh
media is used.
Wilson
"Gino" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 16:12:53 -0500, "George" <george@least> wrote:
>
> >One word - splinters.
> >
> I need to read the words that tell me how to resolve that.
> I was raised in a very old dilapidated house with painted pine floors.
Most of
> the paint was gone and I don't recall getting splinters.:)
>
> >"Gino" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> >>
> >> I'm very interested in doing a SPF floor.
> >> I would like to use 1x4 stained in varying translucent greens.
> >> The cost of unfinished hardwoods for this is huge.
> >>
> >> I realize the wood is very soft but for my purpose dents and marks add
to
> >the
> >> appeal.
> >
>
mp wrote:
>>> Probably a lot of Hush Puppies and pocket protectors.
>>
>> How'd you guess? It was an exciting time for computer geeks.
>> <g>
>
> I'm a geek myself, but I'd never admit to it in a public
> woodworking forum.
Doesn't bother me a bit. I did my geeking honestly and well; and
I've been told that my work has contributed significantly to the
profitability of several Fortune 500 corporations, saved millions
of dollars for the space program, helped save thousands of lives
that might otherwise have been lost, and contributed to making
PC's possible.
Only my ex has ever managed to make me feel ashamed of any of
that - and I've (mostly) gotten over it.
I just don't have it in me to be embarrassed about having worn
Hush Puppies in the lab.
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html
On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 16:12:53 -0500, "George" <george@least> wrote:
>One word - splinters.
>
I need to read the words that tell me how to resolve that.
I was raised in a very old dilapidated house with painted pine floors. Most of
the paint was gone and I don't recall getting splinters.:)
>"Gino" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>> I'm very interested in doing a SPF floor.
>> I would like to use 1x4 stained in varying translucent greens.
>> The cost of unfinished hardwoods for this is huge.
>>
>> I realize the wood is very soft but for my purpose dents and marks add to
>the
>> appeal.
>
In article <[email protected]>,
Fly-by-Night CC <[email protected]> wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>, "George" <george@least>
>wrote:
>
>> S*F. Spruce and fir.
>>
>> Both feature hard latewood and very soft earlywood. Every annual ring is a
>> splinter in the making. There is no answer except not to wear the floor.
>>
>> Eastern white pine is another matter.
>
>I've got an old (c.1920) home with Douglas Fir floors. They appear
>quartersawn and rarely give up splinters. I can only remember one or two
>in the nearly 10 years I've lived here. (One of these days I've got to
>tackle a refinish job on the floor, but that'll have to wait for all the
>*-&%ing! white paint to be stripped off the fir baseboards, door trim &
>headers, built-ins and crown moulding. Fortunately the folks who painted
>didn't do a great job of sanding the original varnish so it's not worse
>than it could be.)
>
>--
>Owen Lowe and his Fly-by-Night Copper Company
>____
>
>"Sure we'll have fascism in America, but it'll come disguised
>as 100% Americanism." -- Huey P. Long
Douglas Fir is like no other fir. It is sold, marked & priced differently
from SPF. The fir in SPF (spruce/pine/fir) is from softer & weaker species that
are similar in strength and other charactersics to the spruce & pine that also
are included in the "SPF" description.
--
Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland
[email protected]
I put 1x12 pine flooring in our colonial homes (per the GC's spec) and ship
lap the boards. A ship lap is basically two rabbets, which overlap each
other. The 1x12's are run through a shaper and then the edges are eased
slightly with a pass or two with a block plane along the edges. the boards
are then face nailed with these 2 1/2" cut nails:
http://store.tremontnail.com/cgi-bin/tremontnail/items?mv_arg=26 If you
are careful about selecting your boards, (or have a jointer) any gaps
between the boards can be minimised, or just left alone if you like the
"aged" look. Easing the edges with a plane will give a shadow line which
can also help hide small gaps
If you're looking to blind nail and want tight fitting boards, T&G is the
way to go. So far, the 3 coats of water based poly (again spec'd by GC, I
personally prefer oil based) has held up with out customer complaints. Hope
this helps--dave
"Gino" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> I'm very interested in doing a SPF floor.
> I would like to use 1x4 stained in varying translucent greens.
> The cost of unfinished hardwoods for this is huge.
>
> I realize the wood is very soft but for my purpose dents and marks add to
> the
> appeal. As long as the floor can be kept clean.
> But I'm not sure about the best way to finish it so the clear finish
> 'bends' and
> doesn't crack.
>
> Also because of 'shrinkage' what would be the best way to put this down.
> T&G would be tough for me to do.
> Running splines is pretty easy though but will they work.
> Can I use glue?
> If I do get cracks what product could be stained green and used to fill
> them?
>
> I've never put down a wood floor of any type so this could be a real
> adventure.
> It not a huge space so if it screws up covering it with carpet would be no
> big
> deal.
In article <[email protected]>, "George" <george@least>
wrote:
> S*F. Spruce and fir.
>
> Both feature hard latewood and very soft earlywood. Every annual ring is a
> splinter in the making. There is no answer except not to wear the floor.
>
> Eastern white pine is another matter.
I've got an old (c.1920) home with Douglas Fir floors. They appear
quartersawn and rarely give up splinters. I can only remember one or two
in the nearly 10 years I've lived here. (One of these days I've got to
tackle a refinish job on the floor, but that'll have to wait for all the
*-&%ing! white paint to be stripped off the fir baseboards, door trim &
headers, built-ins and crown moulding. Fortunately the folks who painted
didn't do a great job of sanding the original varnish so it's not worse
than it could be.)
--
Owen Lowe and his Fly-by-Night Copper Company
____
"Sure we'll have fascism in America, but it'll come disguised
as 100% Americanism." -- Huey P. Long
In article <[email protected]>, "mp" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Probably a lot of Hush Puppies and pocket protectors.
That's cold, dude. Real cold.
;)
--
Owen Lowe and his Fly-by-Night Copper Company
____
"Sure we'll have fascism in America, but it'll come disguised
as 100% Americanism." -- Huey P. Long
In article <[email protected]>, "George" <george@least>
wrote:
> Quartersawn, and not a fir
Douglas Fir is not a fir?
As to the cut of the wood, the OP didn't state how his floor would be
sliced - so quartersawing it might alleviate any splintering that
flatsawn could be prone to.
--
Owen Lowe and his Fly-by-Night Copper Company
____
"Sure we'll have fascism in America, but it'll come disguised
as 100% Americanism." -- Huey P. Long
In article <[email protected]>,
Morris Dovey <[email protected]> wrote:
> I realize that this isn't the direction in which you were
> proceeding; but would like to mention that one of the most
> interesting floors I've seen was done with 2x4 pieces set over
> concrete with only the end grain showing.
>
> The pieces weren't glued or nailed but were kept well waxed; and
> although it looked new, I was told that the floor had been in
> use for over twenty years.
Where did you see this floor?
It sounds a lot like the Ponderosa Pine floor in the Flagstaff, AZ City
Hall/Municipal building - installed around 1982. When I lived in Flag,
the local paper ran an article on the construction and upkeep of the
floor. As I recall, the blocks were secured and then a slurry of sawdust
and linseed oil was applied, much like grouting a tile surface. Seems
there was also some mention of concern with the unevenness of the
surface and ladies high-heeled shoes - there was certainly a shallow
dimpled texture when you look at the reflection of the entryway off the
floor.
--
Owen Lowe and his Fly-by-Night Copper Company
____
"Sure we'll have fascism in America, but it'll come disguised
as 100% Americanism." -- Huey P. Long
On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 23:41:07 GMT, "Dave Jackson" <[email protected]> wrote:
>I put 1x12 pine flooring in our colonial homes (per the GC's spec) and ship
>lap the boards. A ship lap is basically two rabbets, which overlap each
>other. The 1x12's are run through a shaper and then the edges are eased
>slightly with a pass or two with a block plane along the edges. the boards
>are then face nailed with these 2 1/2" cut nails:
>http://store.tremontnail.com/cgi-bin/tremontnail/items?mv_arg=26 If you
>are careful about selecting your boards, (or have a jointer) any gaps
>between the boards can be minimised, or just left alone if you like the
>"aged" look. Easing the edges with a plane will give a shadow line which
>can also help hide small gaps
No jointer, but I get good results with my router . Small gaps are just fine and
a shadow line would be great.
I'm concerned about minimizing shrinkage.
My drying method is to store lumber high up under my 10 foot ceiling in a 65
degree shop for a couple months.
How long is long enough for construction grade. The lumber comes KD and this is
a dry area.
I really don't want to invest in a moisture meter.
>If you're looking to blind nail and want tight fitting boards, T&G is the
>way to go. So far, the 3 coats of water based poly (again spec'd by GC, I
>personally prefer oil based) has held up with out customer complaints. Hope
>this helps--dave
>
Thank, it does.
Can you color water based poly. I would like a yellow tint.
Fly-by-Night CC wrote:
> Where did you see this floor?
>
> It sounds a lot like the Ponderosa Pine floor in the
> Flagstaff, AZ City Hall/Municipal building - installed around
> 1982. When I lived in Flag, the local paper ran an article on
> the construction and upkeep of the floor. As I recall, the
> blocks were secured and then a slurry of sawdust and linseed
> oil was applied, much like grouting a tile surface. Seems
> there was also some mention of concern with the unevenness of
> the surface and ladies high-heeled shoes - there was certainly
> a shallow dimpled texture when you look at the reflection of
> the entryway off the floor.
At an IBM lab in Kingston, New York - in a /huge/ space where I
was told every System 360 ever produced had been wheeled in for
final product test. I'm not sure for what the area was used
before that, or how it's being used now.
I did ask about the construction; and remember that after all the
blocks were in place, the floor was sanded flat before treatment.
There were a lot of 360's produced; and that means a /lot/ of
casters. I was amazed that the floor still looked new in the days
of the System 370. I'd guess that the maintenance crew took a lot
of pride in their work.
There probably wasn't much high-heeled traffic in that area.
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html
Morris Dovey notes:
>> Where did you see this floor?
>>
>> It sounds a lot like the Ponderosa Pine floor in the
>> Flagstaff, AZ City Hall/Municipal building - installed around
>> 1982. When I lived in Flag, the local paper ran an article on
>> the construction and upkeep of the floor. As I recall, the
>> blocks were secured and then a slurry of sawdust and linseed
>> oil was applied, much like grouting a tile surface. Seems
>> there was also some mention of concern with the unevenness of
>> the surface and ladies high-heeled shoes - there was certainly
>> a shallow dimpled texture when you look at the reflection of
>> the entryway off the floor.
>
>At an IBM lab in Kingston, New York - in a /huge/ space where I
>was told every System 360 ever produced had been wheeled in for
>final product test. I'm not sure for what the area was used
>before that, or how it's being used now.
>
>I did ask about the construction; and remember that after all the
>blocks were in place, the floor was sanded flat before treatment.
>There were a lot of 360's produced; and that means a /lot/ of
>casters. I was amazed that the floor still looked new in the days
>of the System 370. I'd guess that the maintenance crew took a lot
>of pride in their work.
>
>There probably wasn't much high-heeled traffic in that area.
>
I've seen similar end block floors in factories where a whole lot more hits the
floor than a computer's fairly easy rolling wheels. Look up and see transport
systems hauling plate metal parts. See others down on the floor welding away.
See others...well, you get the idea. The floors I've seen may have been coated
with linseed oil, but they were set into a mastic base, and, in at least one
case, the floor was well over 30 years old (I wish I could recall exactly where
the place was: not too far from Kingston, because I lived in Westbrookville at
the time. I was working on an article for Pop. Science on a particular type of
wood stove, and the guy welded one up on the factory floor--it was not a stove
factory, though; he worked there doing something else and was allowed the run
of the welding gear for his own projects. Long time ago, about '75 or so).
Charlie Self
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire." Sir Winston
Churchill
Gino wrote:
>> On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 23:41:07 GMT, "Dave Jackson" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I put 1x12 pine flooring in our colonial homes (per the GC's spec)
>>> and ship lap the boards. A ship lap is basically two rabbets, which
>>> overlap each other. The 1x12's are run through a shaper and then
>>> the edges are eased slightly with a pass or two with a block plane
>>> along the edges. the boards are then face nailed with these 2 1/2"
>>> cut nails:
>>> http://store.tremontnail.com/cgi-bin/tremontnail/items?mv_arg=26
>>> If you are careful about selecting your boards, (or have a jointer)
>>> any gaps between the boards can be minimised, or just left alone if
>>> you like the "aged" look. Easing the edges with a plane will give
>>> a shadow line which can also help hide small gaps
>>
>> No jointer, but I get good results with my router . Small gaps are
>> just fine and a shadow line would be great.
>> I'm concerned about minimizing shrinkage.
>> My drying method is to store lumber high up under my 10 foot ceiling
>> in a 65 degree shop for a couple months.
>> How long is long enough for construction grade. The lumber comes KD
>> and this is a dry area.
>> I really don't want to invest in a moisture meter.
>>
>>
>>
>>> If you're looking to blind nail and want tight fitting boards, T&G
>>> is the way to go. So far, the 3 coats of water based poly (again
>>> spec'd by GC, I personally prefer oil based) has held up with out
>>> customer complaints. Hope this helps--dave
>>>
>> Thank, it does.
>> Can you color water based poly. I would like a yellow tint.
Does Minwax make a yellow tint? They make several colors.
Josie
In <[email protected]>, Fly-by-Night CC wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, "George" <george@least>
> wrote:
>
>> Quartersawn, and not a fir
>
> Douglas Fir is not a fir?
</lurk>
It is not (botanically) a true fir. The cones of fir trees (Abies) are upright;
Doug Fir (False hemlock or Pseudotuga menziesii) cones hang below the branches.
<lurk>
Gino wrote:
> I'm very interested in doing a SPF floor. I would like to use
> 1x4 stained in varying translucent greens. The cost of
> unfinished hardwoods for this is huge.
I realize that this isn't the direction in which you were
proceeding; but would like to mention that one of the most
interesting floors I've seen was done with 2x4 pieces set over
concrete with only the end grain showing.
The pieces weren't glued or nailed but were kept well waxed; and
although it looked new, I was told that the floor had been in
use for over twenty years.
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html