There was a time when jews were considered to be the chosen people of
God.
Jews are not considered the "chosen people" anymore.
Our Lord Jesus Christ has come to save the world. Anyone who still
considers themselves a jew in a mortal sinner and will be condmened to
hell for eternity unless they accept Jesus. The same applies to
muslims, and other non-believers.
Cindy Duncan wrote:
> There was a time when jews were considered to be the chosen people of
> God.
===>There was a time Jews considered THEMSELVES to be the
"chosen people" of their deity YHWH. And they still do.
Other peoples considered THEMSELVES to be the chosen people
of THEIR gods. E.g. the Moabites, chosen of CHEMOSH.
Christians stole the idea, and every sect and denomination since then
considers THEMSELVES to be the "chosen people". Others
cannot possibly be "chosen".
> Jews are not considered the "chosen people" anymore.
===>Just what I said.
As a Christian sectarian, no one else could be the "chosen people".
> Our Lord Jesus Christ has come to save the world.
===>That is the Pauline mythology of the Christos Cult.
> Anyone who still
> considers themselves a jew in a mortal sinner and will be condmened to
> hell for eternity unless they accept Jesus.
===>And the proper way of "accepting Jesus" is, of course, the
way taught by your sect. Right? Say if it is not so!
> The same applies to
> muslims, and other non-believers.
===>That is what YOU believe. Muslims believe THEY are the
"chosen people". And non-believers KNOW there is no such thing.
Libertarius
============
"Jessica L. Price" wrote:
> "Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The_Truth.net> wrote in message
> news:3F4D7890.906294A0@Nothing_But_The_Truth.net...
> |
> |
> | Cindy Duncan wrote:
> |
> | > There was a time when jews were considered to be the chosen people of
> | > God.
> |
> | ===>There was a time Jews considered THEMSELVES to be the
> | "chosen people" of their deity YHWH. And they still do.
> | Other peoples considered THEMSELVES to be the chosen people
> | of THEIR gods. E.g. the Moabites, chosen of CHEMOSH.
> | Christians stole the idea, and every sect and denomination since then
> | considers THEMSELVES to be the "chosen people". Others
> | cannot possibly be "chosen".
> |
> | > Jews are not considered the "chosen people" anymore.
> |
> | ===>Just what I said.
> | As a Christian sectarian, no one else could be the "chosen people".
> |
> | > Our Lord Jesus Christ has come to save the world.
> |
> | ===>That is the Pauline mythology of the Christos Cult.
> |
> | > Anyone who still
> | > considers themselves a jew in a mortal sinner and will be condmened to
> | > hell for eternity unless they accept Jesus.
> |
> | ===>And the proper way of "accepting Jesus" is, of course, the
> | way taught by your sect. Right? Say if it is not so!
> |
> | > The same applies to
> | > muslims, and other non-believers.
> |
> | ===>That is what YOU believe. Muslims believe THEY are the
> | "chosen people". And non-believers KNOW there is no such thing.
>
> You are both misunderstanding the meaning of "chosen." It doesn't mean
> "chosen to be God's favorite people." It means "chosen to receive the
> revelation at Sinai." That status hasn't changed, for those who believe
> in the Bible. If you consider the revelation a historical event, then the
> Jews will always be the people who were there. (IF you consider it
> history) You can't change history. So in that sense, Jews are and always
> will be the Chosen People.
===>That is pretty much what I said, or meant to say.
> In the sense of being God's "favorite" people, Jewish doctrine has never
> made any claim to that status. While individual Jews may misunderstand
> the nature of Jewish chosenness, (just as individual Christians such as
> Cindy Duncan obviously do) the doctrine is and always has been that Jews
> are chosen in the sense that they were the people picked to receive God's
> revelation first.
===>Right. That is what the "chosenness" means to most JEWISH people.
As the prayer says: " to bestow upon us his Torah." Correct?
(Of course there is the sect(?) based on the teachings of Rabbi Mordechai
Menahem Kaplan, which completely rejects the idea as immoral.
> Christians often misconstrue the meaning, and feel that they have to prove
> that they replaced the Jewish people as "chosen."
===>That is the idea Saul/Paul was peddling to his GENTILE converts
> Well, as they believe
> that they also received a unique revelation from God, I don't see why any
> "replacement" is required. The Jews got theirs at Sinai, the Christians
> got theirs from Jesus.
===>Yes, that is what Christians believe.
It seems the belief in a deity goes hand in hand with a belief that the
believers are "chosen", one way or another. You need the vision of a
Spinoza or Einstein or Rabbi Kaplan to get away from such conceptions.
> As Christians still regard the "Old Testament" as
> the Word of God, that hardly negates Jewish chosenness.
>
> As far as the sense of being "God's favorite people," if all Christians
> are like you, Cindy, with nothing better to do than pick on Jews, I'd
> consider it a pretty fair indication that you don't qualify.
>
> Fortunately, I know that most Christians are nothing like that, and so I'm
> sure that God loves them as well as anyone else. As for you in
> particular, if this was an evangelism attempt, it was pretty clumsy. If
> it was just plain malice, you're not making much of an effort to follow
> the example of your role model. If it was something else, please tell me,
> because I'm not seeing any other reason for you to say it.
===>Would you believe ignorance? -- L.
Paul (the Apostle) doesn't agree with you
On 27 Aug 2003 17:36:02 -0700, [email protected] (Cindy Duncan)
wrote:
>There was a time when jews were considered to be the chosen people of
>God.
>
>Jews are not considered the "chosen people" anymore.
>
>Our Lord Jesus Christ has come to save the world. Anyone who still
>considers themselves a jew in a mortal sinner and will be condmened to
>hell for eternity unless they accept Jesus. The same applies to
>muslims, and other non-believers.
> There was a time when jews were considered to be the chosen people of
> God.
>
> Jews are not considered the "chosen people" anymore.
>
> Our Lord Jesus Christ has come to save the world. Anyone who still
> considers themselves a jew in a mortal sinner and will be condmened to
> hell for eternity unless they accept Jesus. The same applies to
> muslims, and other non-believers.
It's good to see christianity hasn't *completely* halted your brain. At
least it can still manage to fart out stupid bullshit on occasion.
On Thu, 28 Aug 2003 18:41:02 -0400, "Caiaphas" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Jessica L. Price" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The_Truth.net> wrote in message
>> news:3F4D7890.906294A0@Nothing_But_The_Truth.net...
>> |
>> |
>> | Cindy Duncan wrote:
>> |
>> | > There was a time when jews were considered to be the chosen people of
>> | > God.
>> |
>> | ===>There was a time Jews considered THEMSELVES to be the
>> | "chosen people" of their deity YHWH. And they still do.
>> | Other peoples considered THEMSELVES to be the chosen people
>> | of THEIR gods. E.g. the Moabites, chosen of CHEMOSH.
>> | Christians stole the idea, and every sect and denomination since then
>> | considers THEMSELVES to be the "chosen people". Others
>> | cannot possibly be "chosen".
>> |
>> | > Jews are not considered the "chosen people" anymore.
>> |
>> | ===>Just what I said.
>> | As a Christian sectarian, no one else could be the "chosen people".
>> |
>> | > Our Lord Jesus Christ has come to save the world.
>> |
>> | ===>That is the Pauline mythology of the Christos Cult.
>> |
>> | > Anyone who still
>> | > considers themselves a jew in a mortal sinner and will be condmened to
>> | > hell for eternity unless they accept Jesus.
>> |
>> | ===>And the proper way of "accepting Jesus" is, of course, the
>> | way taught by your sect. Right? Say if it is not so!
>> |
>> | > The same applies to
>> | > muslims, and other non-believers.
>> |
>> | ===>That is what YOU believe. Muslims believe THEY are the
>> | "chosen people". And non-believers KNOW there is no such thing.
>>
>> You are both misunderstanding the meaning of "chosen." It doesn't mean
>> "chosen to be God's favorite people." It means "chosen to receive the
>> revelation at Sinai." That status hasn't changed, for those who believe
>> in the Bible. If you consider the revelation a historical event, then the
>> Jews will always be the people who were there. (IF you consider it
>> history) You can't change history. So in that sense, Jews are and always
>> will be the Chosen People.
>>
>> In the sense of being God's "favorite" people, Jewish doctrine has never
>> made any claim to that status. While individual Jews may misunderstand
>> the nature of Jewish chosenness, (just as individual Christians such as
>> Cindy Duncan obviously do) the doctrine is and always has been that Jews
>> are chosen in the sense that they were the people picked to receive God's
>> revelation first.
>>
>> Christians often misconstrue the meaning, and feel that they have to prove
>> that they replaced the Jewish people as "chosen." Well, as they believe
>> that they also received a unique revelation from God, I don't see why any
>> "replacement" is required. The Jews got theirs at Sinai, the Christians
>> got theirs from Jesus. As Christians still regard the "Old Testament" as
>> the Word of God, that hardly negates Jewish chosenness.
>>
>> As far as the sense of being "God's favorite people," if all Christians
>> are like you, Cindy, with nothing better to do than pick on Jews, I'd
>> consider it a pretty fair indication that you don't qualify.
>>
>> Fortunately, I know that most Christians are nothing like that, and so I'm
>> sure that God loves them as well as anyone else. As for you in
>> particular, if this was an evangelism attempt, it was pretty clumsy. If
>> it was just plain malice, you're not making much of an effort to follow
>> the example of your role model. If it was something else, please tell me,
>> because I'm not seeing any other reason for you to say it.
>>
>> Shalom,
>>
>> Jessica
>
>Not to defend Cindy totally, but there is a point she is making and that is the
>perception and understanding that Chistians have of what it means to be
>"Chosen". I would bet that the vast majority of Christians, especially those
>with little Bible study, perceive that "chosen" means favored by God and have
>never considered that "chosen" means burdened to uphold the Law of Moses.
>
>And, I would think that the ancient Jews felt they were "special" and above all
>others. I get that impression from reading OT Scripture. But, today in a more
>enlightened world, we need to learn and understand the real meaning and not
>persecute someone for holding a belief we don't agree wit. That does not mean
>we have to accept someone elses belief but instead respectfully disagree and
>maintain civility.
>
Whatever you search for you will find. If you search for diasagreement, then
that is what you will find.
Matthew 5:9 - Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the
children of God.
Matthew 18:3 - And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted,
and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Peace be with you..
bd4u
My Cindy,
Aren't you just a bright happy ray of sunshine? :-)
"Cindy Duncan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> There was a time when jews were considered to be the chosen people of
> God.
>
> Jews are not considered the "chosen people" anymore.
>
> Our Lord Jesus Christ has come to save the world. Anyone who still
> considers themselves a jew in a mortal sinner and will be condmened to
> hell for eternity unless they accept Jesus. The same applies to
> muslims, and other non-believers.
On Wed, 27 Aug 2003 17:36:02 -0700, Cindy Duncan wrote:
> There was a time when jews were considered to be the chosen people of
> God.
>
> Jews are not considered the "chosen people" anymore.
>
> Our Lord Jesus Christ has come to save the world. Anyone who still
> considers themselves a jew in a mortal sinner and will be condmened to
> hell for eternity unless they accept Jesus. The same applies to muslims,
> and other non-believers.
First, you might want to read Romans 11. Paul has something to say about this.
Second, the term "mortal sinner" is a very Roman Catholic term, a somewhat
out of date Roman Catholic term, but Catholic none-the-less. If you are
Catholic, you are very out of touch with the teachings of the Church about
Judaism. If you are Protestant, particularly a conservative Protestant,
then you are out of touch with the Bible, where the term "mortal sinner,"
does not occur in any translation that I have.
Perhaps you were thinking about I John 5:16-17, which distinguishes
between sins that kill, and those that don't. I overgeneralize, but
Protestants tend to ignore the passage. I think this arises from the
perception of people and fallen, evil creatures who are going to hell no
matter what they do. Catholics have tended to apply the term to just about
any human action and condition they could think of, as long as it had
something to do with sex. ;) Jews, mercifully, have tended not to read the
passage.
Third, it might just be possible for a person to consider themselves
Jewish, but regard Jesus as the Messiah.